T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday, May 9,
2000, commencing at approximately 9:07 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
BOB CRAWFORD
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
BILL NELSON
Treasurer
TOM GALLAGHER
Commissioner of Education
* * *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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May 9, 2000
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Tom Herndon,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 4
2 Approved 4
3 Approved 5
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
(Presented by Sandra Sartin,
Policy Coordinator)
1 Approved 6
2 Approved 6
3 Approved 6
4 Approved 7
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
(Presented David B. Struhs,
Secretary)
1 Approved 8
2 Denied 27
3 Approved 29
4 Deferred 35
5 Approved 36
Substitute 6 Deferred 39
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner)
1 For Information 39
2 through 7 Deferred 40
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 42
* * *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 4
May 9, 2000
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:32 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of
4 Administration.
5 Busy week for you last week.
6 MR. HERNDON: Fortunately, it came out with
7 a good ending, Governor, for all parties
8 concerned.
9 Item Number 1 is approval of the special
10 minutes -- minu-- minutes of the special
11 meeting held April 19th.
12 These are as amended, Governor.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move the minutes.
14 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. HERNDON: Item 2 is approval of the
18 minutes of the regular meeting held on
19 April 25th, 2000.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I move the
21 minutes, April 25.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. HERNDON: And Item 3 is approval of a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 5
May 9, 2000
1 fiscal determination of an amount not exceeding
2 eleven million five hundred and seventy
3 thousand tax exempt, and five million one
4 hundred and fifty thousand taxable
5 Florida Housing Finance Corporation Housing
6 Revenue Bonds, Series 2000, for the
7 Waverly Apartments Project.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move the
9 competitively sold bond.
10 TREASURER NELSON: Second it.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MR. HERNDON: That completes the agenda.
14 Thank you.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
16 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
17 was concluded.)
18 * * *
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 6
May 9, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Administration Commission.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 Item 2?
8 MS. SARTIN: Item 2 is a requested transfer
9 of general revenue appropriations for
10 Department of Children and Families.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MS. SARTIN: Item 3 is a transfer of
16 general revenue appropriations for Department
17 of Corrections.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MS. SARTIN: And Item 4 is a transfer of
23 general revenue appropriations for
24 Department of Education, State University
25 System.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 7
May 9, 2000
1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, it's approved.
5 MS. SARTIN: Thank you.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Sandy.
7 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
8 concluded.)
9 * * *
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22
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Trustees of the Internal
2 Improvement Trust Fund.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
4 minutes.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 Item 2.
10 MR. STRUHS: Item 2, we're requesting three
11 things. One is for you to direct DEP to
12 exercise the power of eminent domain.
13 Secondly, to adopt a condemnation
14 resolution; and, third, to delegate authority
15 to the Department to prepare and execute parcel
16 specific condemnation resolutions.
17 This is for a project in the Keys known as
18 the North Key Largo Hammocks CARL project.
19 It's acquiring undeveloped lots in two
20 subdivisions there: Knowlson Colony and
21 Gulfstream Shores.
22 I have come to know over the past year that
23 none of you like to talk about condemning or --
24 or taking private property. And let me assure
25 you, neither -- neither does the Department.
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1 I would, however, just draw to your
2 attention the rationale and the reasoning for
3 that.
4 One of our better known State parks,
5 Bahia Honda, known around the world as one of
6 the finest snorkeling and scuba diving areas in
7 the world, we recently had to close the beaches
8 there to swimming.
9 And the reason, of course, was because of
10 the poor water quality, water quality problems
11 that can be related directly back to the
12 seepage of septic from the development in -- in
13 that part of the state.
14 The Board of Trustees some time ago
15 determined that it was in its best interest to
16 reduce or -- or limit the amount of additional
17 development that occurred in this particular
18 area.
19 And looking at these two subdivisions,
20 recognized that 109 of the lots had yet to be
21 developed, and that we -- we were instructed to
22 acquire as many of them as possible.
23 At this point, out of those 109, the
24 Department, at your direction, has either
25 closed or has under contract 73. That leaves
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1 some 36 remaining.
2 If we want to continue the course that
3 we're on -- or that you set us on, the next
4 step would be to pursue those 36 through
5 condemnation.
6 Now, clearly the intention would not be to
7 take those to litigation, but use that as the
8 next step in terms of bringing the parties to
9 the table to see if we couldn't reach some kind
10 of settlement.
11 Be happy to answer any questions you might
12 have.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'm -- I'm having a
15 little trouble with this, to tell you the
16 truth.
17 Primarily, because we've got 62 pieces of
18 property on this twenty-plus acre site --
19 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- that are already
21 developed.
22 MR. STRUHS: Correct.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- and now we're
24 going to pay, through the eminent domain
25 process, big dollars to buy some 36 or so
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1 additional lots that we don't have contracts,
2 or about to close on, or maybe already closed.
3 And -- and I'm not sure why we need to go
4 to the eminent domain process.
5 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
6 In anticipating your question, General, we
7 took the liberty of bringing some maps so you
8 could take a look at that firsthand. If we
9 could approach the dais with the maps, and you
10 could take a look firsthand, and perhaps --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
12 MR. STRUHS: -- make a more informed
13 decision.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: While they're distributing
15 the maps, can I ask a question?
16 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: What -- the -- are we going
18 to donate land in this same area to the County
19 for a sewage treatment facility?
20 MR. STRUHS: Well, I -- I'm aware of the
21 fact that they're making a request of the Board
22 of Trustees to provide them some land for the
23 development of that facility.
24 I'm afraid at this point, I don't know what
25 our recommendation is going to be to you, or
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1 ultimately what your decision is going to be.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But that would be
3 also to support these 62 developed lots?
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're going to have to
5 explain what these are.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The triangles
7 are -- got houses on them, I guess.
8 MR. STRUHS: General, if -- back -- back to
9 your question, sir, before we look at the maps.
10 I think it was your question, regarding the
11 sewage treatment plant?
12 I'm sorry, Governor, your question.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah, 50/50.
14 MR. STRUHS: Two diff-- two different Keys.
15 Same issue in terms of water quality. But the
16 question we have before us in terms of
17 providing land for construction of a treatment
18 plant is on a different Key, so it's a
19 different area of the Keys.
20 Do you want to explain the maps?
21 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. Just briefly.
22 The first map that went through is
23 Gulfstream. And each of the lots that has the
24 triangle on it is where you have a house. It's
25 an improved lot.
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1 And the remaining three all reflect the
2 Knowlson Colony subdivision. And, again, each
3 of those triangles is the lot that's been
4 approved. So you get a sense of the pattern
5 for what has been built on at this point in
6 time.
7 Does that explain it for you?
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. But 36 of
9 them -- of those that are not with triangles
10 are still open for purchase -- contract.
11 MS. ARMSTRONG: Correct.
12 Of the ones that we have not closed or
13 gotten under contract at this point.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And we have made two
15 offers to them.
16 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes, sir.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- and they have
18 been refused every time.
19 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes, sir.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And why do you think
21 they've been refused?
22 MS. ARMSTRONG: I think probably for a
23 variety of reasons. We went through steps.
24 As you'll recall, the first time around,
25 we -- we offered up to appraised value, we came
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1 back and got permission to do --
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And you elevated --
3 MS. ARMSTRONG: -- an additional four.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- it 4,000.
5 MS. ARMSTRONG: You know, some of these
6 people may -- may never be willing sellers; and
7 some are just -- you just hit a -- a financial
8 amount that triggers it for them.
9 If you authorize us to go forward with
10 this, the Attorney General's staff actually
11 does the condemnation procedures, and they'll
12 actually enter into mediation with most of
13 these folks first.
14 And based on past experience, 90 to
15 95 percent are handled prior to going to trial.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: At -- at a fairly
17 substantial increase in the amount that we pay.
18 MR. STRUHS: That's a good question.
19 It's -- it's always difficult to predict --
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Sure.
21 MR. STRUHS: -- the unknown in the future.
22 The last major experience that the Trustees
23 have had with this kind of condemnation for
24 these kinds of small subdivision-like parcels
25 was with the Rotenberger Tract.
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1 And I -- clearly we're comparing apples and
2 oranges, so don't take it too literally.
3 But in that situation, the Board of
4 Trustees ended up paying about $5,000 above
5 the -- the appraised value of -- of the
6 property.
7 So while in many cases, when you go the
8 condemnation route, you pay substantially more,
9 because of the cost of the -- the transaction.
10 There are examples for this kind of subdivision
11 acquisition where it -- it's not
12 extraordinarily high.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: How do you manage,
14 in a -- in a management sense, and we're --
15 we're looking in -- to try to manage this in
16 a -- an environmentally sound way, how do you
17 manage it when you've got a checkerboard with
18 all these private dwellings stuck in the middle
19 of it?
20 I mean, how -- it seems to me that you are
21 creating extraordinary problems for yourself
22 management-wise.
23 Who's responsible for roads, who -- who
24 takes care of, you know, all the things that
25 are involved in that community involving
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1 62 homes?
2 MR. STRUHS: The -- the -- the main
3 rationale for the acquisitions that have
4 already occurred, and the ones that are still
5 before you for your consideration, is the --
6 the loading of the wastewater. And as -- as
7 you well know, the --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, you've got
9 62 homes there that are going to continue to
10 load the wastewater.
11 MR. STRUHS: That -- that's correct.
12 And -- and that --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And there's a
14 moratorium right now, a limited number of homes
15 that can be built in that area anyway, unlikely
16 that you would see more than -- if you even did
17 see more than a handful, you would only see a
18 few. And -- and they would all have to be
19 built to new standards in terms of wastewater
20 treatment.
21 MR. STRUHS: If -- if they were built at
22 all.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If they were built
24 at all.
25 MR. STRUHS: Right.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So I -- I just have
2 trouble with the idea of going eminent domain.
3 Why don't we continue to try to buy these
4 things, and -- and if we don't buy them,
5 what's -- it's not the end of the world,
6 because we've got a damn patchwork there
7 anyway.
8 MR. STRUHS: Well, we -- we'd be happy to
9 pursue that course.
10 Just to -- for the record, to -- to let
11 you know the steps we've already taken, the --
12 the first run we took at it, we tried to
13 acquire as many as we could for below the
14 appraised value.
15 The second run, we actually got authority
16 from the Trustees to offer appraised value.
17 The third run we took at it, in which we
18 picked up a few more, we offered appraised
19 value, plus $4,000. And, again, that was at
20 your instruction.
21 We've now executed all those instructions,
22 and -- and now come back with -- with this last
23 item. It's clearly your choice whether you
24 want to pursue it or not.
25 I think it's possible to continue
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1 negotiations without putting the -- the
2 condemnation out there. But it clearly would
3 strengthen the -- the State's hand in terms of
4 those negotiations.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: These are -- this is not
6 pristine -- I mean, these lots are -- are
7 not -- some of them, are they developed?
8 Platted.
9 Are they developed? Are the lots --
10 I mean, they must be, if it's --
11 MS. ARMSTRONG: If --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- dispersed with houses
13 instead of --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Some have been
15 cleared and some haven't, I think is what the
16 deal is.
17 MR. STRUHS: Right.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: So this is not --
19 MR. STRUHS: It's mixed.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: The purchase of this is --
21 is more related to development's impact on the
22 surrounding environment, not this environment
23 right here.
24 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. It -- it's mostly
25 related to the -- the loading of the
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1 wastewater.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And we're not really
3 changing that. Certainly in the near term.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many homes are built --
5 while we've been trying to purchase these lots,
6 how many homes have been built in the last year
7 or two years?
8 MR. STRUHS: Well, out of the 171 lots
9 total, there are 62 that have been developed.
10 But I don't know how many have been developed
11 over the last --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: While we're --
13 MR. STRUHS: -- several years.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- while you've been
15 pursuing this, have people gotten permits to
16 build homes?
17 MR. STRUHS: I don't -- I don't know the
18 answer to that.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Probably not. I mean --
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Probably --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- limited numbers.
22 Any other questions?
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: David -- if I
24 could, Governor.
25 How -- if we grant this, how many do you
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1 think you could acquire through the mediation
2 process without going to eminent domain?
3 Or to court?
4 MR. STRUHS: Our -- our rough estimate --
5 and, again, you're -- it's difficult to predict
6 the future.
7 But our -- our rough estimate is that most
8 of them would settle without actually going
9 into any kind of court proceeding.
10 Best guess is that somewhere between 5 and
11 10 percent would -- would actually go into some
12 kind of judicial arena.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Let --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me make a -- a
15 comment.
16 I'm -- I'm tempted to go along with this
17 for a couple of reasons, and have them report
18 back to us in two months on where they are.
19 And the reason is, if, in fact, you are a
20 property owner, and you sell under the threat
21 of eminent domain, you get a -- a very good tax
22 break on the profit that you have made -- made
23 on that property, that you don't get when,
24 in fact, you don't have eminent domain,
25 you know, on -- you know, pending.
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1 So I think it would be an advantage to the
2 sellers, as well as the State, if, in fact,
3 this was pending. And I think they can see how
4 far they go. It'll take longer than two months
5 to do it.
6 And if we could go ahead and vote this, and
7 allow those sellers to have that tax advantage
8 with this overhanging them, and report back on
9 how well they've done in -- in -- in
10 two months.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: How binding are the
12 contracts that we already have?
13 MR. STRUHS: How binding are the contracts?
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
15 MR. STRUHS: Fully.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So with that in
18 mind, I'd -- I'll -- I'll make the motion with
19 a report back in two months that we allow them
20 to go ahead with eminent domain at this time.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I'll second that
22 motion.
23 I -- I think -- I think we can accomplish
24 here a lot by allowing this to go forward.
25 MR. STRUHS: You know, I --
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: And --
2 MR. STRUHS: -- I -- I -- I probably
3 shouldn't freelance like this up at the podium.
4 But I -- I just had a --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Uh-oh.
6 MR. STRUHS: -- a thought.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That's a good idea.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: This could be
9 dangerous.
10 MR. STRUHS: This is very dangerous.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Our seat belts are
12 fastened.
13 MR. STRUHS: One -- yeah, one thing we
14 might think about -- one thing you might
15 consider doing is -- is -- is pursuing
16 something that in public policy schools, they
17 would call a Dutch auction.
18 Where we would, as the next phase of this,
19 take a prescribed amount of money for a limited
20 period of time, and make it available to those
21 62 owners, and ask them to come to us with
22 their best sale price and -- in a sealed --
23 sort of sealed bid.
24 At the close of the period, open it up, and
25 then they will actually be competing for the
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1 State's money so that they're actually
2 competing -- competing against themselves,
3 rather than us sort of being in the -- on the
4 other side.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, what stops
6 you from doing that?
7 MR. STRUHS: It's just sort of a new
8 approach. It's not typically the way we
9 would --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: You wouldn't have to do
11 that with eminent domain --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But if we approve
13 this, and you did that -- came back and told us
14 how you did in two months --
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I think once we
16 approve eminent domain, we've -- we've made
17 a -- a statement.
18 I -- I -- I, frankly, think -- I don't -- I
19 don't see the -- the absolute priority to go
20 eminent domain just yet, on this -- on this
21 piece of property.
22 If it -- if it were a pristine piece of
23 property, if it were not one-third developed,
24 if it were not only 36 hanging out from
25 contract, then I'd say, okay. But I -- I think
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1 we ought to maybe try some more innovative ways
2 of --
3 MR. STRUHS: Yeah.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- striking a
5 bargain that is to the advantage of the State,
6 instead of a disadvantage to the State.
7 MR. STRUHS: Right.
8 Yeah. A couple -- Coll-- Colleen asked
9 that we just make it clear, and I think you
10 already understand this, that the -- the -- the
11 parcels that we're looking to acquire are the
12 undeveloped ones. We're not looking to acquire
13 any --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Oh, yeah.
15 MR. STRUHS: -- undeveloped ones.
16 Okay. One thing we -- you might consider
17 doing is -- is take a look at the fact that
18 there are 62 -- I'm sorry -- 36 remaining --
19 take the appraised value of those 36, go ahead
20 and add that $4,000 per lot premium, come up
21 with that pool of money, and then instruct us
22 to run that sort of reverse auction, where they
23 would actually compete for the resource
24 services, and see how many we can acquire.
25 Obviously you would then rank them in -- in
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1 terms of --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Lowest --
3 MR. STRUHS: -- lowest --
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- price first.
5 MR. STRUHS: -- price first.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I -- I'll --
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'm willing to try
8 anything.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- we'll try that.
10 And come back in two months and tell you --
11 tell us how you do.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: General, go ahead,
14 you can make the substitute on mine. Because
15 we have a motion and a second on --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I know we have
17 a motion.
18 We can -- I -- we -- I can do what?
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Substitute
20 motion --
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Say substitute
22 motion, and declare yours invalid; is that it?
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No. If you make a
24 substitute, and your substitute passes, mine --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: My substitute motion
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1 is to deny the eminent domain proposal.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a second.
4 There's a substitute motion. Any
5 discussion?
6 All in favor of the substitute motion
7 which -- to deny, which is -- you say yes,
8 I guess -- say yes.
9 Yes.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yes.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's three?
13 All opposed?
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Three to one.
16 Looks like -- it --
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: How many votes --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: You guys voting?
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Do we need
20 three or four on this one?
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you need three or four?
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Five.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You need five?
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You need five.
25 MR. STRUHS: I think you need --
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Five to grant it,
2 not to deny it.
3 MR. STRUHS: It's just a simple majority
4 for this.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is anybody else going to
7 decide to vote, or you have two abstentions?
8 TREASURER NELSON: No, I'm voting with it.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's four then.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- and --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: The motion is passed, and
12 the -- and the item --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And the direction is
14 is to try this innovative approach to see if we
15 can't be in a more competitive position as a
16 State in buying or selling property.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, the reason
18 that I voted no was to -- I thought that's what
19 you were going to make the substitute, as
20 opposed to deny.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So I'll -- so are
23 you making a new motion now?
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No. I'm finished.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: You just got bamboozled.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I'll make a
2 motion --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: But he can still --
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- that we
5 still -- that we do -- that -- that we
6 authorize --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner, he can still
8 do exactly -- he is -- he intends to do this,
9 and I think the Secretary has the authority to
10 do exactly what you're saying --
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Fine.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- and intends to do it.
13 So -- and we'll report back.
14 MR. STRUHS: We will make a point of
15 reporting back on this item.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Terrific.
17 General, I appreciate your advocacy of
18 caution on eminent domain. I think it's
19 something that we should avoid until the very
20 last option.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Do you know
22 how many lawyers you're putting out of work,
23 Governor?
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know. Well, we've got a
25 couple --
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: There's too damn --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- of new law schools to be
3 able to fill the --
4 I'm schizophrenic about these things.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I know.
6 Well, with one med school, you need at
7 least two law schools to take -- take care of
8 all he --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: To sue them,
10 right?
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Two to one.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Two law schools to
13 sue them all.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: And a chiropractor school,
15 too, to help the lawyers.
16 Item 3.
17 MR. STRUHS: Item 3, we're seeking approval
18 for an option agreement to acquire 165.86 acres
19 within the Wekiva-Ocala Greenway CARL Project
20 from Mr. Johnny Walker.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. STRUHS: Point out that that one is a
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1 purchase that is below the appraised value.
2 Item 4, seeking authorization to acquire a
3 100 percent interest in nearly 82 acres within
4 the East Everglades CARL Project from Jose R.
5 and Alicia P. Martinez.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
9 second.
10 Any discussion?
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I --
12 unfortunately, I'm having a little trouble with
13 this one, too, to tell you the truth. And --
14 and maybe I just need some clarification.
15 I -- I look at the array of land that we
16 are looking to buy in the long run, and
17 Highway 27 goes zipping through the -- kind of
18 the middle of it.
19 And there's a fairly large piece of land --
20 I don't know how many acres are in it -- that
21 are directly north of this little triangular
22 piece that we are looking to purchase that is
23 bounded by a piece of land that we cannot buy
24 and Highway 27.
25 MR. STRUHS: Uh-hum.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'm having a
2 little trouble seeing how this little
3 triangular piece is so important that we're
4 going to pay, you know, 2 million dollars to
5 acquire it, when the surrounding lands prohibit
6 really very good effective use of it in terms
7 of water quality, water purification, whatever
8 it is they plan on doing with it.
9 So I'm just having a little trouble seeing
10 how it fits into the big scheme.
11 MR. STRUHS: As do I, frankly. We -- we
12 studied this one quite carefully, and -- and I
13 had the very same concern --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Then why do you --
15 MR. STRUHS: -- that was --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- recommend approval?
17 MR. STRUHS: Well, I recommended approval
18 because I was convinced that this -- what on
19 the map appears to be a little triangle of land
20 is -- is important for something that is called
21 seepage management.
22 And if you're familiar with that particular
23 map, you'll note there's a much larger tract
24 immediately to the south that is to be
25 developed as a water treatment area, which
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1 means they will actually store water on that --
2 on that land.
3 That creates a -- a hydrant pressure, which
4 will then push the aquifer out, and -- and you
5 will then see seepage on the other side to the
6 north of, I guess, Highway 27.
7 You'll also note on the map that there's
8 existing development in that area. The idea of
9 having that parcel of land for seepage
10 management is it will prevent or reduce
11 flooding, or high water tables in the areas
12 that are already developed.
13 So it's really seeking to protect not just
14 the environment, but also seeking to protect
15 the -- the developed areas.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And that -- that may
17 be true, but, boy, that's a stretch.
18 You know, 27 is a -- a -- will take
19 extraordinary engineering to support what you
20 just said. You'd have to do a tremendous
21 amount of engineering -- reengineering with 27
22 in that immediate area, you know, at a huge
23 cost, which it's one thing to -- to allow water
24 to flow --
25 MR. STRUHS: Right.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- in a very narrow
2 scheme into that seepage area to the south.
3 But it's something else to think you -- you're
4 going to do something with that little
5 triangular area and 27 and incorporate it in
6 a -- in a seepage program.
7 MR. STRUHS: Well, General, if I -- if I
8 could just respond to that, maybe the better
9 course on this item would be to postpone it
10 until we could actually bring in the experts
11 from the water --
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I --
13 MR. STRUHS: -- management --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I'd be happy to
15 do that. And so that you're more comfortable
16 with it, and --
17 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- you know, we rely
19 very heavily on your recommendations, and --
20 and you're -- seem to be a little
21 uncomfortable. And I'd be -- I'd be happier to
22 see you more comfortable.
23 MR. STRUHS: Well, thank you. And -- and
24 we will then, with your permission --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I'll move
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1 that we --
2 MR. STRUHS: -- change -- change our
3 recommendation to postpone --
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
5 MR. STRUHS: -- or delay.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move that we
7 postpone it to --
8 MR. STRUHS: To defer?
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- or defer to --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
13 second to defer.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Do you need time --
15 a period, a window that would be useful for
16 you? Next meeting or two --
17 MR. STRUHS: Why --
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- meetings?
19 MR. STRUHS: Why don't we wait till after
20 Sarasota?
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: In a month then.
23 MR. STRUHS: If you'd -- if -- if I might
24 just offer that when we -- when we take this
25 issue up again, we talk about not just this
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1 particular acquisition, but the -- the broader
2 land acquisition --
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I --
4 MR. STRUHS: -- schematics --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and I appreciate
6 that. In fact, I have been fairly thoroughly
7 briefed on what they're trying to do in this
8 area. It's just --
9 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- that I have
11 trouble seeing how this little piece is -- is a
12 2 million dollar piece, and what they're trying
13 to do in that particular area.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
15 second to defer.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 If -- when you come back also maybe -- or
18 prior to that, if you could maybe explain if
19 this property is not purchased, what -- what --
20 MR. STRUHS: Right.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- the owners of the
22 property could use it for that would justify a
23 50 cents a foot price.
24 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: A whole bunch of
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1 money.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: We didn't get to that part
3 of the conversation.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes. Oh, by the
5 way.
6 MR. STRUHS: Item 5?
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 5.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to defer 6
14 till June 13th.
15 MR. STRUHS: I would -- I would just ask
16 your indulgence on one thing, just if I could
17 introduce very quickly Mr. James Darby, who's
18 the Chairman of the Flagler County Board of
19 County Commissioners, sitting in the front row.
20 And also Jerry Full, who is the
21 Commissioner -- indeed, the first elected
22 Commissioner of the new City of Palm Coast.
23 And they both made the trip here today to
24 offer their support of this project.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Wonderful.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Did we approve?
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: We've already -- you've
5 already --
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's already
7 approved, guys.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Been approved.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Don't -- don't
10 have us reconsider it.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: You -- if you came all the
12 way, you can speak.
13 MR. DARBY: We came all the way to thank
14 you very much for your consideration and your
15 leadership in recognizing what we're doing in
16 Flagler County.
17 Thank you, Governor.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: How's Palm Coast going?
19 Everything -- everything well in Palm Coast?
20 MR. DARBY: Pardon me?
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is everything good in
22 Palm Coast?
23 MR. FULL: Thank you, Governor.
24 Since that question's for me. I'm a member
25 of the City Council -- became a City Council on
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1 December 31st.
2 Going well. Thank you. And this'll help.
3 It's a -- this is a wonderful project. And
4 the -- the State staff rank and file have been
5 really great helping us with this.
6 This touches Bunnell, it touches
7 Palm Coast, it touches Flagler Beach, it
8 touches a large area held by the
9 St. Johns River Water Management District. It
10 goes by a new town center that's going to be
11 developed. It has all the recreational,
12 environmental aspects tied into this one
13 package. And it's really great.
14 And want to thank you.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much for
16 being here.
17 MR. DARBY: Governor, if I may.
18 Just as a tie-in to the land bridge over
19 I-95, which will be the second one in the
20 state, this has a significant relationship to
21 that.
22 We want to thank the FDOT, the DEP, and all
23 the agencies that have assisted our county with
24 that accomplishment.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Exc--
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1 MR. DARBY: Thank you.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excellent.
3 Item 6, there's a motion to defer.
4 Is there a second?
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, David.
9 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
10 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
11 * * *
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 40
May 9, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of Education.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Governor, Item 1
3 is an update on the economic recovery by
4 Union County. We have given a written report
5 to the Cabinet Aides for your information. And
6 additional information will be distributed as
7 it comes available.
8 And I'd like to make a motion to defer
9 Items 2 through 7 till the June 13th
10 State Board meeting.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion to defer.
13 There's a second Items 2 through 7 --
14 Was it, Tom?
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's correct.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- for the June 13th
17 meeting?
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's correct.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 Wow.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: It's a record.
23 TREASURER NELSON: New record.
24
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 41
May 9, 2000
1 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
2 concluded.)
3 * * *
4 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
5 10:01 a.m.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
42
May 9, 2000
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 1 through 41 are a true and correct
12 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 19TH day of MAY, 2000.
18
19
20 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
100 Salem Court
21 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
850/878-2221
22
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