T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
VOTE IN RE: RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING
MANAGEMENT STUDY FOR PAROLE COMMISSION
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
July 11, 2000, commencing at approximately 9:17 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
BOB CRAWFORD
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
BILL NELSON
Treasurer
TOM GALLAGHER
Commissioner of Education
* * *
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3
July 11, 2000
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
VOTE IN RE: RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING
MANAGEMENT STUDY FOR PAROLE COMMISSION:
Approved 6
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Tom Herndon,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 7
2 Approved 7
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION:
(Presented by Teresa Tinker,
Secretary)
1 Approved 9
2 Approved 11
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
4
July 11, 2000
I N D E X
(Continued)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
(Presented by David B. Struhs,
Secretary)
1 Approved 11
2 Approved 96
3 72A Approved 103
72B Approved 103
4 Approved 110
5 Approved 144
6 Approved 93
7 Approved 93
8 Approved 96
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner)
1 Approved 145
2 Approved 154
3 Deferred 155
4 Deferred 155
5 Approved 193
6 Approved 193
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 195
* * *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
VOTE RE: MANAGEMENT STUDY/PAROLE COMMISSION 5
July 11, 2000
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:37 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: We have a -- a resolution
4 recommending a Management Study for the
5 Parole Commission.
6 General Butterworth?
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'll move
8 the resolution, Governor.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is Mr. Henry here?
12 MR. HENRY: Yes.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jimmy, do you want to
14 comment briefly about this, or as long as you
15 want.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: As long as --
17 MR. HENRY: Thank you --
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- it's brief.
19 MR. HENRY: -- Governor.
20 Thank you for your consideration of my
21 letter requesting this study. Be assured that
22 the Parole Commission stands ready to cooperate
23 with the Corrections Commission, and to provide
24 any requested information.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
VOTE RE: MANAGEMENT STUDY/PAROLE COMMISSION 6
July 11, 2000
1 There is a motion and a second.
2 Any objections?
3 It's approved.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, I just --
5 would just add that I hope that the Commission
6 does get input from the Parole Commission as
7 they deliberate, and if they have a consultant,
8 that that would be a part of it.
9 MR. HENRY: Thank you.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
11 (The Vote In Re: Resolution Recommending
12 Management Study for Parole Commission Agenda
13 was concluded.)
14 * * *
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 7
July 11, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: The next Cabinet meeting
2 will be Tuesday, July 25th.
3 And now we have our agenda, the State Board
4 of Administration.
5 Tom, how are you doing?
6 MR. HERNDON: Good, Governor.
7 How are you this morning?
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Life's good.
9 MR. HERNDON: Two items this morning.
10 The first is approval of the minutes of the
11 meeting held June 26th, 2000.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move the minutes.
13 TREASURER NELSON: And I second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 Item 2.
17 MR. HERNDON: And the second is to bring
18 back for your consideration the item that we
19 deferred from the last agenda, which was at
20 that time to report on the potential
21 availability of two financial products that we
22 have been exploring and analyzing.
23 In the intervening period of time since the
24 last Cabinet meeting, we did have an
25 Advisory Council meeting at which time the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 8
July 11, 2000
1 Advisory Council voted to not recommend the
2 purchase of either of these two reinsurance
3 products.
4 And the staff of the SBA transmits that
5 recommendation to you, and concurs with that
6 recommendation.
7 And, Governor, I don't believe that
8 officially it would require any action, because
9 your decision to not do anything essentially
10 just moots the issue, and -- and we don't have
11 to do anything further.
12 So --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Any comments?
14 Commissioner, you happy?
15 TREASURER NELSON: (Nodding head.)
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: General?
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
19 MR. HERNDON: And that completes the
20 agenda.
21 Thank you.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
23 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
24 was concluded.)
25 * * *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND/WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION 9
July 11, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Florida Land and Water --
2 and I'll never be able to pronounce this. I'm
3 going to try it again.
4 -- Adjudicatory --
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: There you go.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You got it.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Commission.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
9 minutes.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MS. TINKER: Item 2, recommend approval of
14 the proposed final rule establishing the
15 Sampson Creek Community Development District.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thanks, T2.
21 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
22 Commission Agenda was concluded.)
23 * * *
24
25
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July 11, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees.
6 Is anybody here from --
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Trustees?
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Looks like there's
9 some job openings.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Most people --
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. I move that
12 we eliminate --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: General Butterworth --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- the Trustees --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- mentioned that --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- from this
17 meeting.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- perhaps that was the
19 25 percent that didn't show up. Is that --
20 Well, this is a first.
21 How about if we move to the State Board of
22 Education while Jose gets on his portable and
23 finds Struhs --
24 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: He's in the
25 cafeteria.
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July 11, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: He's in the cafeteria?
2 Well, let's go --
3 Commissioner -- Commissioner Gallagher.
4 Never mind. Here he comes.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'll be glad to
6 move --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: No.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- right on
9 through the agenda. But we do have the minutes
10 at least moved --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- and seconded.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and
14 second.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 Item 2.
17 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
18 Sorry for the delay.
19 I've -- I've been advised, gentlemen,
20 Madam Secretary, you would like to take the
21 items out of order this morning, and perhaps
22 begin with Items 6, 7, and 8 regarding
23 fiber optic cables.
24 Is that your pleasure?
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If you want to. I
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July 11, 2000
1 don't think we care.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That'd be fine.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I could care less.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
5 MR. STRUHS: It is? Okay.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's fine. That'll
7 prob-- clear out the room probably.
8 MR. STRUHS: If that's your pleasure then.
9 Allow me to -- to just give a -- a quick
10 overview, if I might, of these three items.
11 Six and seven are two authorizations -- or
12 recommended authorizations of private easements
13 for fiber optic cables.
14 Item Number 8 is seeking approval of a
15 response to a petition to initiate rulemaking
16 on how the Board of Trustees will ultimately
17 regulate this industry and their use of public
18 land.
19 One of the things I -- I would suggest you
20 may want to consider is perhaps listening to
21 the members of the public in more of a general
22 discussion of all three items combined, because
23 they are, in fact, very related.
24 And a lot of the comments, I think, are
25 going to be similar. And, indeed, a lot of the
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July 11, 2000
1 members of the public have signed up to speak
2 on all three items.
3 That may be more efficient, to do it
4 altogether.
5 If I could, just to -- a word from the
6 staff who's been studying this. It's a
7 tremendously exciting opportunity for Florida.
8 Florida has the opportunity to become a
9 nerve center for the communication system of
10 the new century.
11 And on the one hand, we certainly don't
12 want to create any artificial barriers to
13 allowing that to occur; but at the same time,
14 seek to be fully protective of the environment,
15 and also eager to make sure that Florida is
16 fairly compensated for the use of public trust
17 lands.
18 I believe that the staff recommendations
19 are prudent interim measures. They are
20 pro-competition and pro-business, but I also
21 believe fully protective, and would serve well
22 until the Board of Trustees can ultimately
23 adopt permanent policies and -- and
24 regulations.
25 What's your pleasure though in terms of
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July 11, 2000
1 hearing from the public, Governor?
2 All together, up front?
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. Does anybody --
4 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. The other thing I --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I think the issues
6 basically --
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Is there anybody
8 against it?
9 I mean, I don't think we need to hear
10 about -- a whole bunch of people talk about why
11 they want to do it, if we already know that.
12 MR. STRUHS: The other thing we have
13 available is a power point presentation that
14 can do a very quick overview of what
15 fiber optic cables are, and what they look
16 like, and how they work.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, they gave us
18 one, right? Now we know.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner, you in a
20 hurry?
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, you want to
22 wait till you get to the charter school.
23 You're going to know why.
24 MR. STRUHS: We don't have to do this, but
25 it's there if -- if you would like it. And it
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July 11, 2000
1 would take probably --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Look, if anybody wants to
3 speak, they're more than happy to speak.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Absolutely.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's the rules of the
6 game here. So --
7 MR. STRUHS: Okay.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think that the --
9 MR. STRUHS: We'll pass on the
10 presentation.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- unless -- unless you all
12 disagree, the issues are -- are similar between
13 the items. And if we can get a sense of why
14 this is important from the people that have
15 traveled up here, I think they ought to be able
16 to speak.
17 MR. STRUHS: Okay. With that then, allow
18 me to -- to start calling folks forward.
19 I'm -- I'm taking it you want to pass on the
20 Power Point presentation?
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
22 MR. STRUHS: Okay. The -- and I'm just
23 taking -- I'm calling these out in the order in
24 which they appear.
25 So the first one is Ms. Catherine Creese
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July 11, 2000
1 from the Tyco Company.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That doesn't look
3 like her. She sure --
4 MR. EARLY: I know you'll --
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- has changed.
6 MR. EARLY: -- find this hard to believe,
7 but I'm not Catherine Creese.
8 My name --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's a good thing.
10 MR. EARLY: -- is Gary Early, and I
11 represent Tyco. And Ms. Creese called me last
12 night about 8:30 after she'd been on a plane on
13 the runway at Newark International for 4 hours.
14 She's currently on route (sic). I suspect
15 she'll be here, walking in.
16 But -- but I think I'm next on the -- on
17 the list anyway, so I can -- I can speak for
18 Catherine.
19 Governor Bush, members of the Cabinet, I
20 appreciate the opportunity to speak to you
21 today.
22 I do want to express Tyco's appreciation to
23 the efforts of the DEP. I kind of thought we'd
24 have a little presentation. But they've done a
25 very good job in this. It probably didn't go
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July 11, 2000
1 as quickly from the time we submitted our
2 application to today, as we would have liked.
3 But I think given the -- the circumstances
4 that they were facing, I think they did a very
5 good job, and we are very appreciative of
6 them -- of their efforts.
7 We -- we do understand the interests of the
8 State in ensuring that the -- that the
9 State of Florida receives just and equitable
10 compensation for the use of its sovereignty
11 lands, and we do support the staff
12 recommendation fully.
13 It appears to us as though there are two
14 questions that are -- that are driving the
15 issue, both from the Department's standpoint,
16 and I believe some of the public interest
17 groups that are out there.
18 Those are the -- the -- the public-private
19 interest dichotomy as to whether these types
20 of -- of activities should be considered public
21 uses or private uses. And the other is the
22 issue of a fee.
23 We believe that -- that the -- the Cabinet
24 can today approve the staff recommendation and
25 allow both Tyco and Atlantica to commence their
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July 11, 2000
1 projects and to move forward in this very
2 exciting and -- and high tech project, and then
3 address these issues in a more dispassionate
4 context through the con-- through the
5 rulemaking process.
6 And we would ask that the recommendation of
7 the Department to initiate rulemaking to come
8 to a final resolution of -- of public versus
9 private interests, and the issue of a -- of a
10 fair and equitable fee be dealt with in that
11 forum.
12 We have submitted our application as a
13 private easement. We are willing to accept
14 being treated as a private easement for
15 purposes of -- of this application pending
16 upcoming rulemaking.
17 We also have agreed to accept the
18 Department's recommendation of a $5 per linear
19 foot interim enhancement fee, again, with the
20 understanding that we will be allowed to
21 participate in the rulemaking process.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. Can I ask
23 you a question as you go, or do you want to
24 wait till --
25 MR. EARLY: Yes, sir.
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July 11, 2000
1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- you're through?
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Please.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Most of the --
4 most of the leases that we have for usage of --
5 of submerged lands are -- are on an annual fee
6 basis. And -- and I notice that some of the
7 other states have annual, some have fixed.
8 You're not locked into one way or the
9 other; is that correct?
10 MR. EARLY: That's correct.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
12 MR. EARLY: The fee that we're paying now,
13 the $5 per linear foot, is a one-time fee --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, wait now.
15 MR. EARLY: -- that will --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You --
17 MR. EARLY: -- ultimately --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- you -- this is
19 one you're going to pay in lieu of rules that
20 are going to set up what it's actually going to
21 be.
22 MR. EARLY: The -- this is -- we -- we have
23 agreed to -- to be subject to whatever fee
24 arrangement is ultimately determined by the
25 State through the rulemaking process. This is
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July 11, 2000
1 an interim fee.
2 We would hope that -- that if the -- the
3 ultimate fee is less, or --
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You'll get credit.
5 MR. EARLY: -- if it comes up at a
6 different structure, that we be allowed to --
7 to credit or structure our payments to -- to
8 fit the rule.
9 But we have agreed, as part of our easement
10 conditions, that -- that whatever is -- is
11 ultimately resolved in the rulemaking process,
12 we will be subjected to.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: General?
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So,
15 therefore, you're saying here today that --
16 that no matter what the fees are determined by
17 the rule, you will not appeal that rule.
18 MR. EARLY: That's correct.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
20 MR. EARLY: We will -- we will be engaged
21 in the rulemaking process.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well --
23 MR. EARLY: We expect to be -- be there.
24 But --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: First.
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1 MR. EARLY: -- but we have no anticipation
2 that we would -- that we would object. As long
3 as it's a -- again, a competitive -- we want it
4 to be a competitively neutral rule. And -- and
5 I've advised my client that -- that they can
6 expect the -- the activities of the State to --
7 to treat everybody in an evenhanded manner.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, just on
9 that point the -- the Commissioner raised, and
10 maybe this -- David could respond to that.
11 It seems to me like the -- the other
12 alternative would be to hold all fees in
13 abeyance until you go through the rulemaking,
14 so you don't have to come back and adjust. And
15 we know there's going to be fees.
16 And while I think the Department made a
17 good faith stab at what, you know, one -- some
18 of them should be, David, I don't know if --
19 what you might think about hold-- holding the
20 fees in abeyance until you actually get through
21 the rulemaking, which would then establish the
22 fees.
23 MR. EARLY: I think that's clearly an
24 option. We do have an interest in ensuring
25 that the -- that the public interest groups
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1 leave this room today satisfied that the
2 Cabinet has protected the interests that
3 they've expressed.
4 And as long as they feel that they have
5 a -- a say in the process, I guess either way
6 is fine, although I believe that -- that --
7 that they would -- they would be --
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
9 MR. EARLY: -- happier with the staff
10 recommendation.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I don't think
12 anybody here is --
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Question. I'm sorry.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- thinking that
15 there's not going to be a fee.
16 MR. EARLY: Right.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I mean, I think we
18 recognize the use of public lands. It is a
19 profit making operation.
20 MR. EARLY: Certainly.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And, therefore,
22 we're going to charge something. But we --
23 MR. EARLY: Right.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- I think we need
25 to figure out what and how, whether it's annual
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1 or once or --
2 MR. EARLY: Yeah. We're not going into the
3 rulemaking process with the -- with the
4 expectation that -- that -- that there will not
5 ultimately be a fee assessed.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine.
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question just
8 concerning the fee.
9 I don't know -- it was really David Struhs,
10 or maybe even you can answer.
11 Are there going to be -- if we had no
12 fee -- it seems like there is -- there is an
13 opportunity to create a disincentive for those
14 who might speculate and be placing cable that,
15 you know, before they really had gotten their
16 financing and other, so I think there is -- is
17 some benefit.
18 I'm not sure about a fee either. I mean,
19 I think that needs to be discussed.
20 But is the rulemaking going to take so long
21 as that -- I mean, we could always --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Six months.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, why don't you
24 describe --
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Six months?
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1 MR. EARLY: I would expect that -- that the
2 rulemaking --
3 Do you want --
4 My experience with rulemaking, if the
5 Department files its notice to commence
6 rulemaking expeditiously, then -- then that's
7 something that should be able to -- to go
8 through fairly quickly.
9 It's not a -- a -- a technical issue in
10 which you're going to have battling experts
11 deciding how many parts per million fish can
12 live in. I mean, it's -- it's -- it's really a
13 policy driven, almost purely legislative issue
14 as to -- as to what the appropriate fee should
15 be.
16 So I -- I think it's some -- you know, some
17 workshops would probably be appropriate. But
18 I think the actual rulemaking process should go
19 within a matter of a couple of months.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: How many applications
21 could we expect in the next six months?
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, why don't you --
23 MR. STRUHS: Sure.
24 Excuse me.
25 Thank you.
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1 Mr. Early -- thanks.
2 The -- the rulemaking process would, at the
3 outside, take a year; and optimistically, would
4 be maybe five or six months.
5 It would depend a lot on the kinds of
6 reactions we would get from members of the
7 public. As you know, Florida runs a very
8 transparent and open consultative process, and
9 we try to give everybody as much time as they
10 need.
11 But my -- my best guess would be about five
12 or six months --
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: And how many
14 applications would you anticipate receiving?
15 MR. STRUHS: Probably half a dozen.
16 About -- about half a dozen. It's hard to
17 predict because --
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Half a dozen, what,
19 over the next year? A half a dozen?
20 MR. STRUHS: Probably, yes.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But we -- we are
22 just really seeing the tip of the iceberg on --
23 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- on this
25 requirement. And -- and it isn't just about
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1 fees here. There are other issues.
2 There's a -- whether we should use a
3 corridor approach, for example, which has
4 tremendous merit, I believe, to be part of the
5 consideration.
6 So we don't want to just say we're hung up
7 on fees, because I -- I'm certainly not hung up
8 on fees. I'm sure we can sort that out.
9 MR. STRUHS: That's right.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: It's a lot of the
11 other policy issues. And -- and you say you'll
12 get this done within a year on the outside.
13 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
14 One of the -- if you -- if I might. A lot
15 of it will depend on ultimately what the
16 Trustees choose to accept as -- as their means
17 of -- of -- of regulating this. We will only
18 make recommendations, and ultimately, you --
19 you choose which ones you like.
20 Some of the perhaps more innovative kinds
21 of things that you would want to consider,
22 however, if I -- if I could just take a second,
23 would be to, in fact, establish up front where
24 these corridors are. And you design them in a
25 way where you limit or -- or -- or -- or void
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1 environmental harm. So we can route them in a
2 way where we don't hit the coral or -- or other
3 sea grass or anything else.
4 And then design them large enough where
5 within that -- within that corridor, you can
6 site multiple cables. And then perhaps
7 something as innovative as -- as not
8 establishing a fee at all, but instead
9 auctioning access to that corridor off.
10 So that, in fact, we're not setting the
11 fee, but we let the market decide what the
12 value is to that public land and let the -- the
13 businesses bid on -- on what the value to them
14 is for a 30-, 40-, whatever is appropriate,
15 50-year lease to that corridor.
16 TREASURER NELSON: Governor.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner.
18 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I think there are
19 some very important public policy questions
20 here. And I'm quite intrigued, David, with
21 what you said about auctioning the corridor
22 off.
23 And what I would not want us to do today, I
24 would reflect the comments of
25 Commissioner Crawford and Secretary Harris,
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1 that we start setting a fee and set the
2 precedent here. This is such a sensitive
3 issue. Taken to its logical extension, we're
4 talking about a tax on -- on the Internet.
5 Because if we suddenly set a high fee,
6 ultimately you know who is going to pay it.
7 It's going to be the user, and a lot of the
8 users are going to be Internet through these
9 fiber optic cables.
10 And my concern is that we set a precedent
11 from a base fee, which is very nominal, of
12 $2,800, and then you set an enhanced fee that's
13 more than that. And then there's the
14 consideration of a future cable fee that I
15 would prefer to see this discussed in a
16 workshop.
17 And I'm quite intrigued by your idea of
18 auctioning off these corridors.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I -- I've
20 got a comment on the corridors. I'm not sure
21 that -- that we should start setting what the
22 corridors are. Because I think that's one of
23 the competitive natures of this business, is
24 that one might want to have a different entry
25 point than we would want to pick for them.
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1 MR. STRUHS: Uh-hum.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I mean, all of a
3 sudden we've got Boca Raton as one -- that's
4 been picked. But maybe somebody wants to go
5 into Cocoa Beach or Key West, or who knows
6 where. That's a competitive advantage I think
7 we should let companies make.
8 Also from security-wise. If all the cables
9 go through one corridor, somebody wants to mess
10 them all up, that's a --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- one good place
13 to do it.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner, I think -- at
15 least in my conversations with
16 Secretary Struhs, we were talking about more
17 than one corridor. And it really relates more
18 to the environmental aspects of this.
19 Over the next four or five months, we'll
20 get a good indication from the dozen or so
21 entities that are interested where they want to
22 enter the state.
23 So I -- I think -- I think -- I think we're
24 on the right track. I don't quite -- I'm sure
25 there's a business reason why everybody's
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1 interested in the fee or no fee, and I missed
2 the -- missed the point.
3 Since, as I understand it, this rule allows
4 for a change in that at the end through the
5 rulemaking process.
6 MR. STRUHS: Right.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Does it relate to the user
8 of the -- of one of the appli--
9 MR. STRUHS: Governor, I --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I don't know what the
11 deal is. But --
12 MR. STRUHS: -- I think I might be able to
13 answer that point.
14 Under the -- the current rules, if a
15 company's deemed a public utility --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's free.
17 MR. STRUHS: -- there is no fee.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand that.
19 MR. STRUHS: And -- and -- and these two
20 applicants have agreed that they are not -- for
21 the purposes of these applications, not seeking
22 to be assessed as a public utility -- or not
23 assessed as a public utility, but, indeed, as
24 a -- as a private venture.
25 A lot of the deliberation I think will
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1 focus on whether or not the Cabinet believes
2 there will be public telecommunication
3 monopolies in the future, or not.
4 And -- and if you believe not, then
5 arguably the fees and the -- the policy that
6 you set out here today will send a signal to
7 the telecommunications industry as a whole.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: What -- what is faster?
9 No fee and allow it to be part of the
10 process, or a fee that could be modified
11 through the process?
12 MR. STRUHS: You -- you may actually
13 benefit more from hearing from the audience
14 than from me.
15 But I think Mr. Early made a -- made a
16 point, which is speed is important. And -- and
17 one of the reasons -- I'm surmising why these
18 two applicants are willing to agree to a fee
19 that will then be adjusted later, depending on
20 your policy, is that they want to be able to
21 gain the -- the support of the other advocacy
22 and interest groups.
23 Or at least -- or at least maybe not gain
24 their support, but at least --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think in this field of
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1 endeavor, six months, compared to a year, is
2 real important, not only for the companies, but
3 from my perspective, for our state.
4 We are -- we are the gateway in the old
5 economy to Latin America, we sure as heck
6 better be the gateway in the new economy.
7 And -- and that means that we need to be wired.
8 We've just gone through an extensive
9 process of -- of leasing out the -- creating an
10 easement for fiber optic cable where the State
11 is going to benefit tremendously in our
12 interstate system. Other companies are
13 privately doing the same thing. We need to
14 connect with the rest of the world.
15 And this is real important. I mean, this
16 is not something that should take time and get
17 tangled up in -- in --
18 MR. STRUHS: Right.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- lobbying, frankly.
20 I mean, this is something that is an economic
21 development interest, and we need to protect
22 the environment. So --
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, we can --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- someone tell me what the
25 quickest way that this can be --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- done, balancing the
3 interests of the State. That's --
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, we can make
5 it emerg-- do it on an emergency rule basis,
6 and that -- that way they can move it real fast
7 and bring it back to us, you know, in the first
8 September meeting.
9 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. Mr. -- Mr. Gallagher,
10 the -- we can do that. And, indeed, that is
11 one of the -- that's Item 8, which is one of
12 the petitions. And you'll -- you'll hear about
13 that shortly.
14 We'll caution you that under the current
15 rules, regulations developed under emergency
16 rulemaking are effective only, I believe, for
17 60 or 90 days.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Ninety days.
19 MR. STRUHS: Ninety days.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Secretary.
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: For -- for the
23 Department of State, this is a -- this is a
24 real passion. You've been the leader -- we're
25 going to be -- Florida wants to be the leader
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1 in e-commerce, and -- and in the digital
2 community globally, worldwide
3 telecommunications.
4 We -- we've been working closely with
5 Governor Bush's IT Florida Task Force. We had
6 an ITFLA Task Force for IT
7 Florida-Latin America. And this is -- so speed
8 and timing is absolutely crucial.
9 I -- I guess the -- in terms of the fee,
10 and especially because you're going to go
11 through rulemaking, and you could at the end of
12 the day decide for no fee.
13 One of my concerns has been the number of
14 speculators that might get in that couldn't get
15 their financing, but would have the opportunity
16 to do so right now if -- if there were no fees.
17 So I think the advantage of, quote, a fee
18 up front right now during rulemaking has its
19 advantages that maybe would keep out some of
20 the speculators.
21 But would it be possible -- when we were
22 briefing yesterday -- to have something like a
23 creative solution. And I don't know what the
24 Governor thinks, or anything else, because we
25 just talk about these things here.
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1 But instead of having a fee at all -- and
2 maybe you could look into something like this,
3 that could be a win-win situation for
4 everybody.
5 -- have the companies, whether it's Tyco or
6 Atlantica, do something extremely -- if -- if
7 this fee turned out to be 500,000 or a million,
8 whatever it is, look at -- look at what the
9 most important project DEP may have underwater
10 opportunities, whether it's coral reefs or what
11 have you, and have -- have these companies
12 actually cre-- do those projects.
13 I mean, if it were an artificial reef,
14 whatever, and it was going to be the amount
15 of a fee we were going to charge. In that
16 vein, these companies could do something very
17 proactive for the environment; Florida could be
18 a leader not only in telecommunications, but
19 also environmentally.
20 And I don't know how the rulemaking would
21 proceed. But if you looked at something that
22 was a very exciting project that -- that they
23 could participate in, that they could create,
24 then maybe there would be even Federal tax
25 incentives to look at it. Something such that
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1 across-the-board environmentally would win;
2 we'd far -- we'd more than exceed the
3 mitigation opportunities, we'd actually be
4 doing something very exciting.
5 But then in the same vein, they'd be --
6 they'd be -- you know, because
7 Commissioner Gallagher said, we would have a
8 fee, this is a profitable venture. Well, why
9 not have them do something very -- very
10 exciting and proactive, rather than charge a
11 fee, so that Florida could be the leader and
12 not have fees at all, but, indeed, we would
13 still be gaining something extraordinary
14 environmentally.
15 And I -- it's a creative solution. It's a
16 little different. But I think it could be
17 win-win across-the-board for everyone if the
18 companies were interested in -- in doing
19 something that way. That way, it would keep
20 out speculators and the speculation, but we'd
21 also have a stellar environmental situation on
22 the coastal areas.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, we may have put the
24 cart before the horse here, starting to ask all
25 these questions.
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1 Maybe we could get a few people that --
2 that -- the applicants could --
3 MR. STRUHS: Right.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- speak a little bit so
5 that -- and then --
6 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we'll open it back up to
8 questions so --
9 MR. STRUHS: I'm -- I'm sorry.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we get all the
11 information.
12 MR. STRUHS: I'm sorry I took so much time.
13 I didn't intend to.
14 Mr. Tammaro -- Tammaro --
15 MR. TAMMARO: Tammaro.
16 MR. STRUHS: -- Tammaro, I'm sorry, from
17 AT&T.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're not finished yet?
19 MR. EARLY: I pretty much am.
20 MR. STRUHS: I'm sorry.
21 MR. EARLY: I just wanted to reiterate
22 that -- that -- that we do have an interest
23 in -- a significant interest in making sure
24 that this project goes through.
25 We are in the process of bringing cable up
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1 the coast of Brazil as we speak, and -- and
2 there are some time exigencies, but -- that we
3 hope that the Cabinet is sensitive to and
4 will --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: What are they?
6 MR. EARLY: -- realize.
7 Pardon me?
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: What are the time
9 sensitivities?
10 MR. EARLY: We -- we would like to be able
11 to lay cable, and have the system under the
12 ocean floor before the real heart of the
13 hurricane season hits in September.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: Wow.
15 MR. EARLY: So we're -- so we're on a --
16 about a -- about a month schedule. We have
17 the -- the -- the structure is ready to
18 install. And so that -- that's our
19 circumstance --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: As soon as they
21 get approval here, they start drilling.
22 MR. EARLY: As soon as -- that's about --
23 that's -- that's -- probably not that day, but
24 pretty darn close.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So in base of
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1 that -- for that you need the ease-- easement.
2 MR. EARLY: Yes, sir.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Right.
4 MR. EARLY: Yes, sir.
5 And so we -- we do ask that -- that
6 the Board give favorable consideration to the
7 staff recommendation. We do support it. We
8 will participate in the rulemaking and -- and
9 go forward from there.
10 Thank you very much.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
12 Welcome.
13 MR. TAMMARO: Good morning, Governor,
14 members of the Cabinet.
15 My name is Michael Tammaro. I'm with
16 Carlton, Fields law firm. I represent AT&T.
17 We have a little different perspective
18 today than these two immediate applicants. By
19 way of background, our client, AT&T, has been
20 installing or laying -- landing international
21 facilities in Florida for 100 years. It was
22 telegraph; fiber optic cable; and now,
23 of course, it's -- or excuse me -- coaxial; and
24 now it's fiber optic cable.
25 Governor, you asked what would be the
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1 fastest thing to do here. We, as an entity,
2 our client has relatively little difficulty
3 with moving forward to explore the concept of
4 fees. We understand why staff is under
5 pressure in this way to come to these
6 recommendations.
7 The fastest way would be to approve these
8 two items today; direct rulemaking, as was
9 proposed several years ago by the Trustees, to
10 look at utilities generally, linear facilities
11 for utility generally, because that was the
12 question that was put to them that they
13 ostensibly are following to bring back to you.
14 We are very, very concerned about
15 characterizing these as private -- this
16 tortured method to get to the assessment of
17 fees.
18 For 40 years, over 80 individual
19 precedential decisions right up to last year,
20 when AT&T's Hollywood landing facilities were
21 approved, these have been treated as public
22 purpose projects. Because that's what the rule
23 says, public easement is the appropriate form
24 of authority for public purpose projects such
25 as utilities, bridges, and roads.
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1 Now, I know that there are a lot of issues,
2 and Mr. Gallagher had raised some of them,
3 concerning whether these are now characterized
4 more as public or private in nature; whether
5 fees should be assessed for necessary -- not
6 just desirable, but necessary navigable water
7 crossings.
8 We think the rulemaking process is the best
9 way to explore those.
10 Highways, public road rights-of-way in this
11 state are open to telecom and power companies
12 for use. Those are held in trust for the
13 public.
14 But 100 years ago, the decision was made
15 that if we went telecommunication and we want
16 power, that this is clearly within the public
17 trust for the highway purposes. It's merely an
18 evolution in form.
19 And we think that same analogy applies to
20 the highways of commerce the public trust
21 document was designed to protect, and that's
22 the waterways of the world. This is a common
23 principal in democracy. Communication is just
24 as protected now, we believe, as it was when
25 communication was carried by ships.
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1 But that's all for later. We'd be glad to
2 go into the rulemaking process with these
3 arguments that there should not be any fee,
4 there should be a big fee, there should be a
5 small fee.
6 In the end, the fees are passed on to the
7 consumers. I mean, it's not -- you know, these
8 applicants are going to pass them on to their
9 consumers, we're going to pass it on to our
10 consumers.
11 And if there's a little piece of e-mail
12 that comes to the state of Florida, you know,
13 that's a policy decision that y'all are going
14 to have to make.
15 We don't want to sound greedy or overreach
16 on this, we think there's a principal there --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I --
18 MR. TAMMARO: That's all. So -- so I would
19 suggest --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's -- let's be real
21 clear here.
22 If the implication is that by suggesting
23 that our property is deserving of some income
24 for the right of its use, that that is taxing
25 the Internet, which is what you just said,
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1 that's just wrong. That's just -- it -- I --
2 MR. TAMMARO: Well, sir --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: That argument is --
4 MR. TAMMARO: Yes, sir. Our view --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- is a false one.
6 MR. TAMMARO: -- not that it's -- we think
7 there's an argument -- a policy argument.
8 It's not necessary that they're not
9 deserving of some fees. Many states have
10 adopted fees. They adopted fees to address
11 matters within their programs, resource
12 conflicts within the Trustee's programs. They
13 have tied it to the program's administration.
14 But no state has suggested that, as has
15 necessarily been characterized here, to get to
16 the issue of fees, that it's enhanced profit,
17 it's percentage of profit, it's these kinds of
18 things.
19 This is the problem we have fundamentally,
20 philosophically. Not that we issue and we go
21 down the road to look at fees, you know,
22 because there are policy issues either way.
23 We think that it's the method. And the
24 fastest way to get through this process today,
25 in our view, would be to simply approve these
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1 items, because we've been through -- AT&T
2 doesn't have a current project in front of you,
3 but we've been here before. When our
4 appraisals for use of State parks come in at
5 $60,000 and we're negotiating with the State,
6 we know the importance of speed and getting to
7 market and having to agree.
8 I think these applicants would necessarily
9 agree to just about anything to get approved
10 today. We're going to live with the
11 ramifications of this, as a state, as the -- as
12 an industry. You know, the issues on fees, is
13 it a signal, is it a subtle signal; you know,
14 how does it affect how the State is viewed in
15 the larger context of e-commerce? Is it worth
16 the couple hundred thousand dollars a year to
17 send this kind of signal?
18 All of these are going to come back to you
19 in a rulemaking form.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Couple hundred thousand a
21 year? Where did you get --
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: That's --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that number?
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's all this
25 would be for this one.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. It's not a year.
2 It's --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No. One-shot
4 actually.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: One shot.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: For 20 years.
7 MR. TAMMARO: Well, as we expect -- AT&T
8 expects, sir -- I'm sorry -- that -- and all
9 these issues, we expect about one or two cable
10 systems landing in Florida for the next
11 ten years based upon projected demand.
12 So essentially you would be receiving this
13 fee, 100,000, 200,000, if this is -- if the
14 current proposal is -- is -- for about the next
15 ten years.
16 And we don't know where it'll go from
17 there, because these cables that you have in
18 front of you, they increase in capacity in a
19 logarithmic rate. We may not need -- ten years
20 from now, we may not -- may not need any more
21 cables. That's the issue there.
22 So --
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I've got a
24 question.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
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1 MR. TAMMARO: Yes, sir.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think that the
3 reason that we weren't charging, and -- and --
4 is that these utilities were -- were monopolies
5 that -- that there wasn't any competition on.
6 And what we're talking about now, in all of
7 our -- is a highly competitive marketplace. So
8 I think --
9 MR. TAMMARO: That's --
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- things have
11 changed.
12 MR. TAMMARO: Well, they have changed. And
13 it's interesting, because the PSC distinction
14 is one that staff has made. And we understand
15 why they're trying to get to a rationale for
16 this.
17 But long distance and international
18 facilities have never been regulated by the
19 PSC. Never. And we have 40 years of history
20 in Florida approving them under this rule.
21 They've never -- they're not subject to
22 PSC jurisdiction.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But how many
24 companies were competing for these? There was
25 one company laying cable, right?
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1 MR. TAMMARO: Well, no, not necessarily.
2 There's -- there are members of consortiums.
3 Each one of these cables has 50 to 100 members.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, no. I was
5 talking about AT&T in the past. They're --
6 MR. TAMMARO: Right.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- they're the
8 only ones that were put-- they hired people to
9 do it, but they were the only ones laying any
10 cable internationally --
11 MR. TAMMARO: That's true.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- weren't they?
13 MR. TAMMARO: Well, they -- they contract
14 with other entities to lay the cable for them.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right.
16 MR. TAMMARO: They're one of the members.
17 But the point on competition, so that I
18 may, is that there is a certain old think,
19 you know, that -- that PSC regulation imbued
20 with the public interest.
21 But we now have the Florida Statute that
22 governs telecommunication, states that
23 deregulation and pursuit of competition is in
24 the public interest. We're now trying to
25 pursue that as a public interest. Rather than
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1 be contrary to the public interest, we think
2 the Federal government's incentives here -- the
3 Federal government and the State governments
4 are passing legislation as fast as they can get
5 it on the books to speed deregulation, speed
6 competition.
7 So we would -- you know, we have this
8 argument -- again, we'll save it for
9 rulemaking. We don't want to do it now.
10 I'm --
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
12 MR. TAMMARO: -- suggesting that --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- but -- but
14 now -- let me tell you what --
15 MR. TAMMARO: Yeah.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- what's
17 happening now is going to drive the rulemaking.
18 So, I mean, to -- to hold off and think
19 you're going to do it later -- the things that
20 we're talking about here are going to influence
21 the beginning of this rulemaking.
22 MR. TAMMARO: Well, yes, sir.
23 And, you know, there -- it's complicated.
24 I mean, we could talk about it all day long.
25 But I think that the public -- to come back
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1 following a rulemaking proceeding with a public
2 record of comment from industry, from the
3 environmental groups on, (a), whether a fee is
4 appropriate; and (b), how that shou-- fee
5 should be characterized, you will have a more
6 complete record.
7 And all I'm suggesting today is that
8 this -- the Trustees accomplish what staff has
9 asked, approve this item, assess an interim
10 fee. That's a big jump, assessing interim fee.
11 Do it now, subject to rulemaking.
12 That's essentially what --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're --
14 MR. TAMMARO: -- the --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- you're coming here in
16 support of these --
17 MR. TAMMARO: Absolutely. Absolutely.
18 I -- you know, we want you to approve these --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But not the fee
20 necessarily.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry.
22 MR. TAMMARO: I'm sorry.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
24 MR. TAMMARO: We want you to approve this.
25 You know, we're in support of going to
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1 rulemaking and building a public record on the
2 issue of fees. Again, we don't like it. We
3 don't -- we think it's a little bit of small
4 thinking, and not big picture thinking.
5 But in the end, if a universal fee -- a --
6 a reasonable fee attached to all utilities
7 necessary, navigable water crossings, you know,
8 you want us to stand up here and say that's
9 something we're going to fight till, you know,
10 whatever freezes over. You know, we're not
11 going to like it. We'll --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
13 MR. TAMMARO: -- build the site how to
14 approach it, our --
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So are you --
16 MR. TAMMARO: -- clients will.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- are you
18 planning to go into rulemaking arguing that
19 there should be no fee? Is that what --
20 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- you're telling
22 us?
23 MR. TAMMARO: We're going to go into
24 rulemaking arguing what we've argued to you
25 through our correspondence that went out for
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1 the last several weeks, maybe months, that we
2 think that navigable water crossings by
3 communication is a protected interest under the
4 public trust doctrine, that a reasonable fee --
5 a per foot, reasonable, one-time fee is
6 definitely a preferable alternative to glomming
7 on to an -- or attempting to get into the
8 enhanced revenue or profit on the theory that
9 these companies are -- are making money off use
10 of submerged lands, because they're not. It's
11 necessary.
12 You can't come from Spain and get to
13 Florida without getting across that last
14 3 miles.
15 So we're going to argue -- yes, sir. We're
16 going to argue --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: They don't have to
18 come across Florida. They can go another way.
19 MR. TAMMARO: They could go to another
20 state --
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's right.
22 MR. TAMMARO: -- yes -- yes, sir.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: They don't have to
24 come to --
25 MR. TAMMARO: But every other state has the
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1 same doctrine Florida does, public trust
2 doctrine. So they'd be faced with the same
3 arguments.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No. They --
5 you're saying -- if what you're saying is true,
6 they could go to another state, if we charge,
7 and get in free --
8 MR. TAMMARO: The fee's --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- is your
10 argument.
11 MR. TAMMARO: You know, in all honesty,
12 sir, the fees are not going to drive --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Exactly.
14 MR. TAMMARO: -- the sites --
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And we're talking
16 a couple hundred thousand dollars in a
17 multibillion dollar --
18 MR. TAMMARO: Right. And that's why I'm
19 saying, it's a signal. It's -- you know, this
20 is the -- the -- you know, the issue of whether
21 Florida --
22 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
23 MR. TAMMARO: -- wants to get a piece of
24 the pie is an issue that needs to be developed
25 in rulemaking. It's just a fee --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: So your concern --
2 MR. TAMMARO: -- and that's all it is.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- your concern relates
4 more to a suggestion that somehow we get
5 a piece of the -- a piece of the deal.
6 MR. TAMMARO: Our concern is characterizing
7 these --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. I don't think that's
9 been even --
10 MR. TAMMARO: Yes, sir.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: None of us have
12 looked at we want a piece of the deal. We're
13 looking at --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now that you've brought
15 that suggestion up, I'm sure someone will look
16 at it. But I don't think that's ever --
17 MR. TAMMARO: No. It's --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- under consideration.
19 MR. TAMMARO: It's brought up -- if you --
20 in the background material, the private
21 easement, the basis for assessing fees under
22 the Department's private easement rules is
23 enhanced --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Put aside -- well, I --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, how about --
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1 look at this, a boat dock, okay? We don't look
2 at how much money the guy's going to make
3 docking the boats. We charge the same amount
4 for everybody on a square foot basis that
5 they're going to be using.
6 MR. TAMMARO: Right.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, if they can't
8 rent it, not our problem. If they rent it and
9 get ten times more than anybody else gets,
10 because everybody wants to have their boat
11 there --
12 MR. TAMMARO: Yes, sir.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- that doesn't
14 affect us.
15 MR. TAMMARO: Right.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We say, you're
17 using State, publicly owned land, you pay a fee
18 for that. And what we're saying here is that,
19 if you're going to use the public land, you pay
20 a fee for it.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's not too --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's not based --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- moronic to have --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- on how much --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- government --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- profit you're
2 going to make --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- invest in take -- take
4 risk. It's -- it's just -- I would -- if that
5 was presented to me, I would -- I would -- I
6 would vote no about taking a percentage of
7 someone's upside in any business for the right
8 of using whatever property that we --
9 MR. TAMMARO: What we do though --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- have is -- you guys --
11 I mean, the real world does it all the time in
12 the risk taking world. We're not in that
13 business. We're in the --
14 MR. TAMMARO: Well, the current lease --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- protection of -- of the
16 assets that as Trustees, the Constitution has
17 given us. And that -- I don't think it's ever
18 come up. I don't --
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: I think everybody --
20 MR. TAMMARO: The State does get a
21 percentage of revenue on leases for marinas.
22 That's how they're charged now. And that's
23 because they're considered private,
24 exclusionary uses which preempt traditional --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is something that's --
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1 MR. TAMMARO: -- something --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- far different than that.
3 This is in a whole new world.
4 MR. TAMMARO: I agree.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Anyway.
6 Any other questions?
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Before we go to the next
9 speaker?
10 Yep.
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thanks.
12 More than anything, we want to see this
13 become the digital bridge of the Americas. And
14 I think everybody in the audience is going to
15 breathe so much easier after the Governor
16 clarified that we're not interested in getting
17 a piece of the pie.
18 We're looking at the sovereign submerged
19 lands and that kind of fee structure.
20 New Jersey charges over 12 -- $12 a foot.
21 But how would you feel about the -- my
22 question, if instead of a fee, that you could
23 in a proactive way AT&T could do something very
24 positive for the environment so that you could
25 use that -- in your public relations so that
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1 you could use that, and not -- and, therefore,
2 Florida wouldn't be charging a fee.
3 I mean, would that be something that --
4 MR. TAMMARO: Well --
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- you would find --
6 MR. TAMMARO: -- it actually -- we would --
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's worse.
8 MR. TAMMARO: It'd actually be --
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: Worse?
10 MR. TAMMARO: -- comparing apples to
11 oranges. I mean, the environmental -- the
12 Department does a very good job of addressing
13 the environmental issues under its existing
14 program.
15 AT&T dropped a million dollars on
16 mitigation costs down in Hollywood coral reef
17 enhancement and artificial reef programs,
18 et cetera.
19 We would obviously be concerned that if any
20 fee was ultimately adopted, it would stay
21 within the Trustees' budget. I mean, it's --
22 it would -- I mean, it -- it's -- it's
23 indirectly related. We hate to see a fee that
24 was adopted that would go into the general
25 revenue.
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1 And philosophically, a reasonable fee that
2 helps the Department and the Trustees do its
3 job, you know, it's not going to be --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
5 MR. TAMMARO: That's it. Thank you, sir.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do we have other speakers?
7 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
8 We -- we may want to suggest, in the
9 interest of time, to -- to try to keep the
10 remarks limited to -- to new issues, and -- and
11 maybe limit them to -- to 3 minutes?
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
13 Or if -- if they don't want to speak,
14 because it's already been said, that's a good
15 thing, too.
16 MR. STRUHS: Okay. Mr. -- Mr. Benedict
17 from Asset Channels.
18 And then after that, Mr. Steve Medina from
19 Public Employees for Environmental
20 Responsibility.
21 MR. BENEDICT: Governor, members of the
22 Cabinet, thank you for the time to speak this
23 morning.
24 My name is Thomas Benedict. I'm
25 Vice-President of Asset Channels, Incorporated.
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1 We do not have a project before you today. We
2 do -- excuse me -- we do have an application
3 pending at the DEP. We expect it will be
4 before you within the next three to four months
5 at the latest.
6 Therefore, listening to what was said this
7 morning about the time frame for rulemaking,
8 I'm very concerned about the policy
9 applications of what occurs today prior to the
10 completion of any proposed rulemaking.
11 And I agree with a lot of what Mr. Tammaro
12 said, representing AT&T, and I'd like to speak
13 specifically to two issues that are before you
14 today.
15 On the agenda in Item 6, the recommended
16 approval of staff's general recommendations on
17 fiber optic telecommunications, cables, and
18 utility easements.
19 If you look specifically at page 12 of your
20 agenda today under Item 6, in the second full
21 paragraph, they are recommending that in the
22 interim time frame, as we go forward, all
23 fiber optic cable shall be treated as private
24 projects, not public projects.
25 What this appears to do is redefine what a
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1 public utility is. Currently, public
2 utilities, being an entity that is registered
3 and regulated by the Public Service Commission,
4 are exempt for -- from fees for public
5 projects, by definition.
6 The staff is asking that this be rewritten
7 and say that the subset of public utilities,
8 being fiber optic cables, in the future be
9 subject to fees.
10 I believe the rule currently says that
11 fiber optic cables and utilities are not
12 subject to fees. If after rulemaking that
13 changes, so be it.
14 But they're asking to change the rule
15 through your action today without a formal
16 rulemaking process.
17 We are very concerned, because our project
18 has seven landings in Florida, and we are a
19 public service regulated company in the
20 State of Florida.
21 So inasmuch as we will be before you before
22 the completion of any rulemaking, I would ask
23 that you hold in abeyance the staff's
24 recommendation, especially this one, until the
25 completion of a rulemaking. Because this would
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1 greatly affect us before any rulemaking is
2 completed.
3 And as, Governor, you said, timing is of
4 the essence. It is very critical for our
5 project that we move forward.
6 Questions?
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
8 MR. BENEDICT: Thank you.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Next.
10 MR. MEDINA: Good morning.
11 My name is Steve Medina. I'm Florida
12 counsel for Public Employees for Environmental
13 Responsibility.
14 We were on the list to address all three
15 items. I'll try to make my remarks
16 consolidated into 3 minutes, but that is going
17 to be a little bit difficult.
18 I'll take them in order that -- 6, 7,
19 and 8.
20 First was Tyco. I have a few specific
21 comments about the Tyco application. However,
22 we just broadly want to reserve all our legal
23 and other rights about that.
24 We certainly are going to be against any
25 deferring of payment of fair market value. We
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1 think that the fair market value fees ought to
2 be paid up front.
3 We're even concerned -- we're very
4 concerned about the $5 linear foot number that
5 the staff chose, which was basically the
6 midrange of the states. And we would ask you:
7 Why should Florida, even on an interim basis,
8 be at the midrange with all of our fragile
9 coral reefs and other natural resources.
10 For instance, I bring your attention to
11 a -- a California lease where $116,000 per year
12 was assessed for a single line, plus there were
13 measures put in place to protect fishermen and
14 other -- and other competing interests.
15 Will there be a later potential for
16 downward reduction? It sounds like there will.
17 So we're also against and concerned about that.
18 We disagree with the possibility of later
19 on, if these applicants agree to payment of the
20 $5 linear foot, that they could later on have
21 it reduced.
22 We certainly don't think that that sends a
23 good signal.
24 Generally we question going forward with
25 new fiber optic cables until the corridors that
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1 the Governor, and others, have -- are -- are
2 mentioning here are established.
3 We especially question where there is no
4 existing need. On two of these six conduits
5 with respect to Tyco, there's no existing
6 contracts for them. So the -- the four
7 additional ones are basically for future
8 purposes. So we question where the need is.
9 On a positive note, we want to give credit
10 where credit's due, and that Tyco, and also
11 Atlantica that I'll mention in a second, they
12 are agreeing to private easement treatment. So
13 they -- they should be applauded for that,
14 because that allows some protections to be in
15 place.
16 Generally, with their White Paper, we see
17 some good points, but we have some concerns
18 particularly on an interim basis.
19 With respect to Atlantica, I would
20 incorporate the same comments as to Tyco. We
21 reserve all our legal and other rights.
22 The only thing I would add on Ty-- on
23 Atlantica is, we would question the water
24 dependency of that project.
25 Under 18-- under Rule 18-21.004(1)(d),
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1 activities on sovereignty lands must be limited
2 to what are dependent activities, unless the --
3 the Board determines that it is in the public
4 interest to -- to allow an exception.
5 Essentially with Atlantica's, you have a
6 north to south -- from New Jersey to Florida
7 line coming down. They're locating it out in
8 the -- in the waters, including State waters,
9 because that's the cheap -- cheaper route,
10 rather than land basing it, as I understand the
11 proposal.
12 So we would question whether that's water
13 dependent, and we question whether that can be
14 approved without a specific Board determination
15 that it's in -- in the public interest to make
16 an exception.
17 And that -- we also are concerned, if it is
18 determined that that is a water dependent
19 approach, and, therefore, can -- can get around
20 the water dependent requirement, then we're
21 going to have that coming up with -- because --
22 because we understand there's another
23 north/south Atlantica application pending where
24 the applicant does not want to agree to the
25 private easement status.
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1 So in that situation, not only would the
2 water dependent rule not apply, but no other
3 rules would apply as well.
4 Briefly about the PEER petition. Public
5 Employees for Environmental Responsibility
6 filed an emergency petition because we thought
7 that emergency rules needed to be put in place
8 now, not waiting until you have a problem
9 that -- that could come up. And I'll explain
10 that in a -- in a second.
11 But we believe there is a substantial and
12 continuing imminent risk from not clarifying
13 that fiber optic installation will generally
14 require private easements. We're trying to
15 ensure adequate BOT -- Board of Trustees powers
16 under its rules, as well as protect the public
17 trust.
18 We are concerned about an approach that
19 relies upon DEP only -- in terms of a
20 regulatory review. We recently filed a
21 petition for a special prosecutor in Bay County
22 in the Panama City area.
23 We -- we -- with the Governor last month.
24 We haven't heard anything back from that. And
25 we would certainly like to get some idea about
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1 when a response will be given on that.
2 But the point is is that there are problems
3 from a regulatory perspective and how DEP is
4 doing things. Some very serious problems, as
5 that petition points out.
6 But back to this petition.
7 Another problem is that DEP does not
8 traditionally consider where you put things.
9 They only apply their regulatory balancing
10 tests. They do not consider citing type
11 considerations.
12 The 1800 Atlantic case was the
13 First District Court of Appeal case, and
14 basically said that you can mitigate your way
15 out of virtually anything.
16 So what that -- what that says from a
17 permitting perspective with DEP, is that there
18 is no coral reefs too sacred, that you just
19 couldn't put up some artificial reefs out
20 there, and somehow mitigate for that.
21 And we do not think that is what the Board
22 of Trustees needs to do, because this is public
23 property, this is not private property.
24 Now, my -- my core point as to why this is
25 an emergency -- and I'll try to wrap this up.
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1 I apologize.
2 -- there are provisions under the public
3 easement -- under the private easement rule
4 that are simply not under the public easement
5 rule.
6 So next -- next week or next month, if you
7 have one of these applicants that doesn't want
8 to, like, Tyco and Atlantica, cooperate in
9 terms of this private easement classification,
10 you are highly likely to not have any -- any
11 authority to protect the environment in that
12 situation.
13 And we will be dependent completely upon
14 the regulatory side of DEP.
15 We do not think that is adequately
16 protecting the public trust in exercising your
17 duty.
18 We are also concerned with the payment
19 later strategy. In general, we think that
20 the -- the signals ought to be given up front.
21 And we're concerned about when this rulemaking
22 is going to take place.
23 The potential that there will be everybody
24 lumped in together, and that water and sewer
25 lines by county to go across wetlands will
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1 price -- be priced the same as major players in
2 the international telecommunications market
3 going across coral reefs.
4 We certainly think that you ought to price
5 in a very high way things that are
6 unquestionably bad for Florida's natural
7 resources.
8 As a final note, these things are going to
9 be down there a long time, and we believe that
10 this is a very serious issue.
11 And long after we're -- we're gone, these
12 things are going to be down there. They're
13 going to have to be serviced over time, they're
14 going to have to be replaced from time to time,
15 so we think that this is a very important
16 issue.
17 And just urge your -- not rejecting our
18 petition as being not an emergency, because we
19 think there is an emergency when an applicant
20 next week or next month is going to say, you
21 don't have the powers to protect the State.
22 I haven't even talked about their fees
23 really, but you need to get the right fees,
24 too.
25 Thank you.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
2 MR. MEDINA: Sorry for going so long.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: No problem.
4 I'll -- give me your telephone number so I
5 can give you the response on the
6 special prosecutor thing.
7 I apologize. I didn't know that it was --
8 MR. MEDINA: Yes, sir.
9 850--
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
11 MR. MEDINA: --664-0-- --7856.
12 664-7856.
13 Thank you, sir.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
15 MR. STRUHS: Steve Lewis.
16 MR. LEWIS: Governor, members of the Board,
17 my name is Steve Lewis. I'm with the law firm
18 of Lewis, Longman & Walker, and we represent
19 Atlantica, which is Item 7 on your agenda.
20 It's a fiber optic system that's going to
21 run from the northeast, in New Jersey, all the
22 way down to Boca Raton; and then on to the
23 Americas, including Venezuela, Brazil,
24 Argentina, and probably even further.
25 It's a 700 million dollar fully financed
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1 project. But it is a compet--
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Seven hundred million, is
3 that what you --
4 MR. LEWIS: Seven hundred million, which is
5 a lot of bucks.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
7 MR. LEWIS: We would respectfully request
8 that you approve our item as recommended by the
9 DEP staff.
10 We don't object to receiving this as a
11 private easement. We are comfortable with all
12 of the conditions the DEP has recommended in
13 the permits, including going into minimization
14 in the mitigation that's required.
15 We do not object to an interim fee of
16 $5 per foot. And we are committed to work with
17 the Department and the Board on rule
18 development in addressing fees, and perhaps
19 developing a clearer distinction between what
20 should be a private or public easement.
21 I would raise one point. The corridors
22 have been looked at by a number of
23 jurisdictions. And to date, we're not aware
24 that any jurisdiction has implemented a
25 corridor concept.
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1 But that doesn't mean that you can't
2 develop in the rule a filtering process or a
3 way to focus generally where these types of --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, we can just --
5 MR. LEWIS: -- to go.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- deny them. If they're
7 not in the corridor, right? I mean, be an easy
8 way of dealing with the issue.
9 MR. LEWIS: The other point that I'd like
10 to make is, is that it was raised -- there was
11 a question raised about the water dependency
12 issue. And this is an international cable
13 system. We have to go through international
14 waters.
15 And we are having a very difficult time
16 understanding why something like this would not
17 be water dependent.
18 The bottom line is is that we're
19 comfortable with DEP recommendations. We think
20 they've tried to balance all the various -- the
21 issues that are out there, and really would
22 respectfully request that you approve our item.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
24 MR. LEWIS: If you have any questions.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
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1 Any other speakers?
2 MR. STRUHS: We have two, Governor.
3 Susan Langston and then Barry Richard, and
4 then we're done.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Susan.
6 MS. LANGSTON: Good morning.
7 Good morning, Governor, Cabinet members.
8 My name is Susan Langston. I'm
9 Executive Director of the Florida
10 Telecommunications Industry Association.
11 The FTIA is a trade association
12 representing the telecommunications industry in
13 Florida. Our membership consists of incumbent
14 and competitive local exchange providers,
15 long-distance carriers, and wireless providers.
16 In addition to AT&T, our membership
17 includes BellSouth, GTE, Sprint, Alltell, MCI,
18 Progress Telecommunications, Covad, and a
19 number of other telecommunications providers in
20 Florida.
21 I'll be very brief, members.
22 It's -- the issues that have been raised
23 before you today are important issues to the
24 telecommunications industry. We agree with
25 many of the points raised by Michael Tammaro on
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1 behalf of AT&T.
2 We think that the issues of the
3 public-private treatment of utilities is one
4 that's important in payment of a fee as well,
5 and we would like to see that go through
6 rulemaking.
7 We also support approval of the petitions
8 that are before you today.
9 I'd be happy to try to answer any questions
10 that you may have.
11 Thank you.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
13 Thank you very much.
14 MS. LANGSTON: Thank you for your time.
15 MR. RICHARD: Governor, Cabinet, my name is
16 Barry Richard. I'm with Greenberg, Traurig law
17 firm. And I'm here representing Telefonica,
18 which owns the two cables that would
19 immediately be laid over the easement that Tyco
20 has applied for.
21 My client's sole interest here today has
22 been to eliminate any controversy with regard
23 to those cables, to those applications that are
24 before you today.
25 Those cables are part of a loop that will
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1 connect Florida to Puerto Rico and eight other
2 countries. It's critical that that loop be
3 completed as soon as possible, in the interest
4 both of this state and of commerce throughout
5 South America and the United States.
6 We have consequently agreed to an
7 unprecedented interim fee. We have agreed that
8 that fee is not binding upon this Cabinet, it's
9 subject to any rulemaking that the Cabinet
10 subsequently makes.
11 We have agreed to virtually every
12 environmental concern of mitigation that
13 anybody has had, or could have. In fact, we've
14 adopted the very best management methods known
15 to the industry to protect the environment.
16 In short, these applications present
17 nothing to this Cabinet that commits the
18 Cabinet to any position that would tie your
19 hands with regard to the big picture later down
20 the road.
21 And so although I think that many of the
22 issues that have been raised today for purposes
23 of discussion are interesting and are critical,
24 they have nothing to do with these
25 applications.
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1 And, in fact, if you think about it,
2 nobody, including PEER, has presented to you --
3 to you this morning, or during the days that
4 we've been involved in this process -- anything
5 that specifically suggests that you ought not
6 to go forward and -- and -- and approve these
7 applications.
8 The one thing that we don't want from the
9 standpoint of our company, and that you don't
10 want from the standpoint of the State of
11 Florida, is for this state to be the glitch in
12 the completion of that loop.
13 And so I -- I urge you to -- to approve
14 these applications, and then permit us to go
15 forward to -- to work on the bigger picture for
16 the future of this state and -- and -- and
17 technology leadership.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
19 MR. RICHARD: Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary Struhs?
21 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you want to --
23 MR. STRUHS: That --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- wrap --
25 MR. STRUHS: -- concludes --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- this up?
2 MR. STRUHS: -- that concludes the
3 speakers.
4 And I suppose you're now ready for the
5 Power Point presentation?
6 No, actually --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that that wry
8 New England humor again?
9 I think so.
10 MR. STRUHS: No. If -- if you -- if you
11 would --
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We've had enough of
13 that --
14 MR. STRUHS: -- if you would like, we can
15 just go through these then in -- in order.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
17 MR. STRUHS: I'll --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- good idea.
19 MR. STRUHS: -- give you the staff
20 recommendations, and you get to vote.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Excuse me, Governor.
22 I've --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- got a question.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, General.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'm obviously
2 interested in the fee process, but I'm sure
3 that'll be resolved as a result of the
4 rulemaking.
5 There are other issues under the
6 rulemaking, one of them being the corridor
7 approach as a possibility.
8 We have two applications right now, one of
9 which is making six entries, I believe, into
10 our coast. Another one is making one entry.
11 I believe Atlantica is only doing one.
12 There are obviously several others in the
13 wings that will want to make entries into our
14 coast.
15 MR. STRUHS: Right.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If we go forward
17 with the proposal today, are we foreclosing the
18 option to really have a corridor approach?
19 MR. STRUHS: An excellent question, and
20 one -- one that I asked myself. And -- and
21 I think it might be useful to take a minute and
22 allow Mr. Coram from our staff to -- to address
23 that.
24 MR. CORAM: That's a good question.
25 And you'll see part of your item is a
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1 recommendation that while we evaluate the
2 corridor concept, we only authorize projects
3 for which an applicant can demonstrate that a
4 cable is coming.
5 So in that effort, we're -- we're -- we're
6 trying to get out sort of the speculators that
7 may want to get a project approved and don't
8 have cables coming in. By only authorizing
9 projects for which a cable can be demonstrated,
10 we think we can continue to evaluate the
11 corridor concept.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Would there be some
13 merit for -- in terms of the corridor business
14 particularly, less so the fee, in -- in going
15 along with the emergency rule approach to try
16 to define the corridor business, if -- if we
17 want to do it at all? I'm not saying that we
18 necessarily want to do it.
19 But I -- I certainly wouldn't want to see
20 us foreclose that option by having to wait as
21 long as perhaps a year and -- and a number of
22 additional requests for cable entry landings
23 I guess is the right term?
24 Would it be useful to perhaps consider the
25 emergency rulemaking?
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1 MR. CORAM: We'll have to let our Office of
2 General Counsel address some of the specifics
3 of -- of emergency rulemaking. What you really
4 need when you're in emergency rulemaking, to
5 put the language out immediately. I mean, you
6 can't really have a debate over what that
7 emergency rule should say.
8 On the corridor concept, you know, one is
9 we continue to evaluate the environmental
10 impacts of any cable coming in on a
11 case-by-case basis while the corridor concept
12 is being fleshed out.
13 And so with those two things, one is only
14 approving projects which a cable can be
15 demonstrated, and being able to look at the
16 environmental impacts of each project on a
17 case-by-case basis, we're not precluding, I --
18 I don't think the corridor --
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- I look at
20 the Tyco system, for example, which is -- has
21 six entries, two of which, as I just thought I
22 heard, are -- are going to be operative, the
23 other four are not, someone else implied that
24 at least.
25 Again, six entries along -- just along the
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1 west coast, let alone -- excuse me, along the
2 east coast, let alone, along the west coast,
3 future entries, I think -- I -- I'm not so sure
4 that we aren't -- haven't really tied our hands
5 and -- and foregone the option to even consider
6 a corridor approach.
7 MR. CORAM: Okay. I -- I understand --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I mean, I recognize
9 you're going to apply good -- your good
10 engineering and environmental concerns.
11 But with that said, and I appreciate that
12 you would do that -- with that said, I -- I
13 still see that we may very well no longer have
14 that corridor option, if it's a good option.
15 And I'm not even saying that that's necessarily
16 a good option.
17 But are we, in fact, foregoing it?
18 I think the answer is yes -- or damn near.
19 MR. STRUHS: I -- I think the answer is
20 we're -- we're trying to -- to balance the
21 desire to not create unnecessary barriers to
22 entry.
23 We -- we wanted -- see these -- I mean, I'm
24 assuming the Cabinet wants to see these things
25 do business in Florida and get the cable laid,
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1 and -- and be on the cutting edge. And we --
2 we want to advance that agenda.
3 But at the same time, you're -- you're
4 right, General, preserve the option of at least
5 examining on the merits the advantages of -- of
6 a -- of a corridor approach.
7 So it -- it's -- it is a -- it is a bit of
8 a trade-off, but I think --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, are -- is there --
10 is it possible to give a yes or no answer to
11 the General's question?
12 Are we -- are we -- I mean, that's --
13 MR. STRUHS: It's --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that's the question.
15 MR. STRUHS: No. I mean, it's an excellent
16 question.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's the third time we've
18 heard that. What's the -- what's the excellent
19 answer?
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: How about an
21 excellent answer?
22 MR. STRUHS: The -- the answer is if --
23 if -- if two or more of these projects are
24 authorized on -- on -- as -- as we are pursuing
25 the development of a corridor option, it may,
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1 indeed, affect the nature and shape of the
2 corridors that we might ultimately adopt.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me ask -- let
4 me ask a question.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The answer is yes.
6 I mean, there is no question that we are
7 foregoing the flexibility of going to a
8 corridor option that would best serve our
9 interests.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I think what David's
11 saying is that it limits -- it will by
12 definition limit the -- the --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- flexibility of the
15 corridors. But the concept is a good one.
16 And I believe there's a consensus that we
17 should study it very hard, because we don't
18 know what the future looks like, we don't know
19 how many applications we're going to have.
20 There are serious environmental aspects of
21 this, maintenance and other things that we need
22 to look at.
23 So --
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, if I -- if I
25 thought that we could get this thing done
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1 rapidly, instead of the twelve-month outside
2 that I've heard --
3 MR. STRUHS: Right.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- then, you know, I
5 would be more comfortable with the idea that
6 perhaps we won't see a -- a real plethora of
7 requests --
8 MR. STRUHS: Right.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- for -- for cable.
10 MR. STRUHS: Right.
11 If -- if I -- if I might, on a -- on a
12 related point, the -- the DEP really doesn't
13 have any quarrel with the PEER petition in that
14 we recognize, as I think most of us do, that
15 there is a sense of urgency about this.
16 So there's no quarrel over that. The
17 sooner we get clear rules in place, the better
18 off everybody is --
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I guess I'm
20 trying to find out, is the PEER emergency
21 approach that they have requested, would that
22 help resolve --
23 MR. STRUHS: Right.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- the corridor
25 issue --
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1 MR. STRUHS: Right.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- in a more timely
3 fashion.
4 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. And that -- that's --
5 and that's where I was going.
6 I think we agree that there is a sense of
7 urgency. We can't recommend that there's a
8 sense of emergency.
9 And -- and I think the difference being
10 that if we pursue an emergency rulemaking
11 petition, under the law, we're obligated to put
12 the rules out there immediately for
13 promulgation.
14 And the point is, we don't know what those
15 rules are going to look like because we want to
16 go through this deliberative process first of
17 examining whether or not things like corridors
18 make sense.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah, Tom.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'm a little
21 disappointed here. This -- these applications
22 have been sitting around for a long time.
23 This issue is not a brand new one to the
24 State of Florida, knowing that fiber optics
25 cable was going to be the thing, that was going
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1 to get laid across continent, et cetera.
2 Why weren't we working on rules before we
3 have somebody that hurries up and wants to lay
4 a cable? I mean, why weren't we doing this
5 last year?
6 MR. STRUHS: I -- I don't know.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I mean, we got --
8 now somebody wants to lay a cable, so now we're
9 going to come up with a rule that takes
10 six months to a year.
11 When they first applied, somebody should
12 have said, we better get rulemaking started
13 right now, because they've applied. And if we
14 work it right, by the time they go through what
15 they're supposed to do, we'll have a rule
16 ready.
17 Instead, they've gone through all what
18 we're supposed to do, and we don't have any
19 idea how we're supposed to charge them, or
20 whether we're supposed to charge them, or --
21 I mean, to me that's -- that's the real
22 question.
23 How many other things like this do we have
24 floating around?
25 MR. STRUHS: I -- I -- I apologize to you,
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1 and -- and to the entire Cabinet that perhaps
2 we didn't do as good a job as we might have in
3 anticipating this.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I mean, when
5 the applications came, was there not a question
6 about it being charged or a rule needed?
7 That never came up?
8 MR. STRUHS: I don't know. I -- I only
9 learned about this issue within the last couple
10 of weeks. I wasn't aware of it.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You know, one -- one
12 of our --
13 MR. STRUHS: But we --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- principal --
15 MR. STRUHS: -- can learn -- we can learn
16 from this experience obviously.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: One of our principal
18 obligations is as Trustees of -- of the public
19 lands. And -- and, frankly, the idea of
20 closing out options, to me, is not a -- really
21 a healthy way of doing business, regardless of
22 the timing. I mean, we -- obviously it's
23 ill-timed.
24 But it -- it -- it does concern me that we
25 are closing out options in terms of our
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1 responsibility to protect the -- the public
2 lands.
3 And, again, I'm not even saying that the
4 corridors is a good thing, because I don't
5 know.
6 MR. STRUHS: Right.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But I -- I hate to
8 see us just gap it off, which is what we are
9 going to be doing by allowing these things to
10 go forward right now without some consideration
11 in that regard.
12 So I -- I don't know what the answer is.
13 I -- I've asked the question, you've answered
14 it kind of -- a little on the weasely side.
15 But I got -- I understand it, I think.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, if -- if --
17 you know --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: If I could --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- here's the
20 thing. If --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- just -- I've got to
22 defend my -- my brother here.
23 I don't think it was weasely. I think he's
24 pointing out that there is -- sometimes in
25 life, there's not yes and no, that sometimes
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1 there's something in the middle.
2 And, yes, this will limit the options.
3 There's no -- no question about it. But I
4 don't think he's trying to --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- say something --
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I don't have
8 finite diagrams, but I do have a diagram that
9 shows the Tyco --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- system. And --
12 and if -- and if that doesn't establish
13 corridors, per se, I don't know what does.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well -- yeah,
15 but --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And are they the
17 right corridors?
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: What it does is it
19 establishes a corridor to their advantage,
20 because they're going to be running four or six
21 of these conduits, and they're going to use two
22 of them.
23 So bottom line is, if we end up saying this
24 is the corridor, I'm going to go to them and
25 use one of their conduits, instead of trying to
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1 put my own in.
2 MR. STRUHS: Right.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: And you know what, the
4 State of Florida will benefit. And that's the
5 good news. I mean, we're -- this is important,
6 because we have a responsibility.
7 But the broader issue here is that we're
8 moving to a new economy, we have a network
9 access point that I hope we can put together
10 that will -- will consolidate our position as a
11 state with the rest of the world in a dramatic
12 way that will create income potential for a
13 whole lot of Floridians.
14 And we shouldn't lose sight of this by the
15 fact that this may not be a perfect process.
16 If we slow this down, there are others that are
17 in line that will gladly replace us.
18 I'm going to Atlanta, for example, today.
19 I guarantee you that Georgia is poised to do
20 the exact same thing. There are folks over in
21 Texas that are interested in doing this.
22 And -- and they know the -- the key -- the
23 critical nature of -- of this infrastructure
24 that's in place.
25 So I hope whatever we do, we don't delay in
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1 a way that would put us in a -- in an
2 uncompetitive position.
3 MR. STRUHS: Right.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, if
6 I can --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. General.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you,
9 Governor.
10 David, is it possible to approve the item,
11 but if it turns out that one of these entry
12 points is not a good corridor, that it -- that
13 it can be turned down?
14 How can we --
15 MR. STRUHS: Yeah.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: --
17 in essence --
18 MR. STRUHS: Yeah.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Man, they're going
20 to start drilling.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, that's
22 the problem. I mean, I -- I don't know.
23 MR. STRUHS: On -- on this issue of
24 corridors -- and I -- I tried to address your
25 question through -- through this answer.
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1 I think there's three points: One of the
2 reasons we like the idea of corridors is
3 because it provides a better environmental
4 protection. We can say up front where they
5 make sense, and where they don't, and then tell
6 the companies where to put the cable.
7 Another reason I think we like the idea of
8 corridors is that it actually provides more
9 certainty to the applicants in the future.
10 So that as we see more applicants coming in
11 the future, we don't have to start fresh with
12 every application. As long as it's going into
13 that corridor, we know that a lot of the work
14 has already been done, and we'll get these
15 things built faster with less transaction
16 costs.
17 The third potential advantage of -- of the
18 corridor approach is that if the Cabinet
19 determines they want to go down a path where
20 in -- in lieu of a fee, you simply allow access
21 to the corridor on a market basis in terms of
22 an option basis, the corridor provides for the
23 boundaries of that -- that kind of market
24 mechanism.
25 So I think those are the three advantages
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1 of the corridor.
2 The specific question you asked is in the
3 interim, if projects are going to be authorized
4 before the establishment of corridors, can we
5 be assured that it's done in a way where we are
6 fully protective of the environment. And the
7 answer is clearly yes.
8 And -- and I can assure you, we'll be
9 vigilant in -- in doing that.
10 I think the answer to -- to
11 General Milligan's question is yes. I mean,
12 it -- it is -- it is going to limit the
13 flexibility.
14 But as long as the siting and the -- the
15 establishment of the interim cables is done
16 correctly, it should not conflict with any
17 future efforts to establish corridors. The
18 future corridors can be established around
19 things that are already permittable because
20 they're protective of the resource.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But this will
22 certainly be one --
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Thank you. I
24 understand that.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I --
2 TREASURER NELSON: Are we ready for action?
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're getting close
4 I think.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Well then, I would move
6 the staff recommendation, setting no precedent,
7 and go to rulemaking.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I'll second that.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: For 6 --
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and 7 and --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, let me ask
13 you a question.
14 Is that saying that you're putting $5 on
15 it?
16 TREASURER NELSON: The staff
17 recommendation. Yes.
18 MR. STRUHS: And we -- we have three
19 recommendations, obviously, on -- on three
20 items, 6 and 7 being authorizations, and 8
21 being response to the petition.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, let's do 6 and 7
23 first, since they're -- or you want to do
24 them -- let's do them separately.
25 Let's do Item 6.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Do a motion --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- on 6 then.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: All in favor, say aye.
6 THE CABINET: Aye.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?
8 Number 7.
9 MR. STRUHS: Substitute Item 7 is
10 Atlantica USA.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 7.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's been moved and
14 seconded.
15 Any objections?
16 It's approved.
17 Will you describe Item 8 for us, David?
18 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
19 Item 8 is the petition from Public
20 Employees for Environmental Responsibility in
21 which they seek to initiate both emergency
22 rulemaking, and standard rulemaking, again,
23 because of the agreed upon sense of urgency
24 surrounding this issue.
25 We believe that at least this -- this may
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1 not -- this may not sound -- sound right. But
2 we believe that it's actually not appropriate
3 to utilize these tools, that we agree with PEER
4 in terms of the sense of urgency, but we're not
5 prepared under the emergency rules to actually
6 put regulatory language on the table today.
7 We think that we have to go through the
8 deliberative process with all the parties,
9 including PEER.
10 So we would seek your approval to deny
11 their petition, but to then engage them
12 wholeheartedly in -- in this discussion.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion?
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I so move.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. What --
17 what years -- you're moving that you just
18 discuss and go ahead and make rules?
19 That's what your proposal is?
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Deny. Deny.
21 MR. STRUHS: We -- we believe that all the
22 speakers you heard from today agreed that
23 they --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Deny it.
25 MR. STRUHS: -- want to participate --
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's
2 right.
3 MR. STRUHS: -- in the normal public
4 process.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, the motion is to
6 deny the petition; is that correct?
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's --
8 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That'd be my
10 motion.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's moved and seconded.
14 Any -- any discussion?
15 Any objections?
16 It's approved.
17 Got a lot of work ahead of you.
18 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir. It'll be fun.
19 Item 2 is the Zemel option agreement,
20 Charlotte Harbor Flatwoods.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. STRUHS: Item 3 is the
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1 Tolle/Fitzpatrick option agreement, Florida
2 Springs Coastal Greenway.
3 Sandra Clinger from Save the Manatee Club
4 had asked if she could speak to this issue.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
6 Sandra.
7 MS. CLINGER: Good morning.
8 Good morning.
9 I'll keep my comments very brief.
10 I'm just here to speak in support of the
11 acquisition in that area. Crystal River and
12 the Kings Bay Refuge Area have been shown to be
13 one of the most successful areas for manatee
14 protection in the state of Florida.
15 It's one of the only areas where we can
16 clearly demonstrate protection measures are
17 working, and working well. We actually have
18 demonstrated an increasing manatee population
19 in that area.
20 We support this acquisition because we
21 believe it will ensure protection of that
22 resource, and the ecosystem as a whole.
23 Thank you.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Could I ask her a
25 question, Governor, please?
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Please.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: How does that
3 5.5 acre piece, which is on the corner of 27
4 and some other street I guess, or proximate to
5 one, and how does that fit in to the protection
6 of the manatees?
7 MS. CLINGER: I'd have to see a map.
8 I'm sorry.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Oh, I thought you
10 were familiar with the property.
11 MS. CLINGER: I'm familiar with the area.
12 I've just been asked to speak in support of it
13 for the Club.
14 I -- I personally only --
15 Do you have a map?
16 MR. STRUHS: We have a map.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Oh, so you don't
18 really know what impact having or not having
19 this piece of property, this 5.5 acres, might
20 mean.
21 MS. CLINGER: I know the upland area
22 surrounding Crystal River are very important to
23 maintaining the integrity of the ecosystem --
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Uh-hum.
25 MS. CLINGER: -- as a drainage basin for
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1 the system.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
3 Thank you.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'm -- David, are
5 we getting this -- are we getting this property
6 back so that we can use it in trade again, or
7 what are we doing here?
8 Hmm?
9 MR. STRUHS: You're good.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Is this a
11 tradeable land, like, when we got a deal
12 working, we can just trade this again and buy
13 it back? Or what -- what's the deal?
14 MR. STRUHS: Well, I tell you, I -- I asked
15 the same question, Commissioner. It -- it does
16 seem odd that you would own something, and then
17 trade it, and then want to buy it back.
18 I -- I think though if -- if you look at
19 all the facts and -- and consider it carefully,
20 it's a deal that made sense at the time, and
21 it's one that we would probably do again.
22 But there is a map available in which you
23 can see the large quantity of acreage that was
24 gained by the State in terms of an even trade
25 of land with no additional dollar value
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1 attached.
2 So it was -- it was a good trade, and it
3 made sense at the time.
4 Staff advises us that this parcel that we
5 now want to purchase for substantially less
6 than its appraised value actually, I think 88,
7 89 percent, will come -- comp-- complete in --
8 and even out the -- the boundaries of this
9 property.
10 And even though this particular corner of
11 land is already disturbed in terms of not
12 having destroyed any natural value, that
13 because it is disturbed, it is the ideal spot;
14 and because it's at an intersection, to provide
15 the public access to the interior lands that
16 are set aside for conservation and recreation.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're building a parking
18 lot.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: For -- for a
20 million -- we're buying a piece of property for
21 a million dollars to build a parking lot.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: To access a pristine part
23 of the state where manatees are protected so
24 that we can go visit our fellow mammals, which
25 is the good news.
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1 But this is not -- this is not land that is
2 environmentally sensitive, this is land that if
3 we not -- if we don't purchase it, will be a --
4 an out parcel next to a mall.
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: A gas station.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Across the street --
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- from a mall.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and, of course,
10 we will take that off of the tax roles.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yep.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And -- and the
13 mall can use the parking if they get
14 overflowed, because it's right next door, free.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Across the --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- street.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- know about that.
19 It's -- it's pretty far away.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I just -- I mean,
21 I -- I have less trouble with the other piece
22 of property, because it does make some sense --
23 MR. STRUHS: Right.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's why they --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- put it
2 together.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- but together, I
4 have a little trouble with that little piece
5 there, and paying a million bucks -- over a
6 million dollars, to put a parking lot in there
7 for -- to support a trail that doesn't yet
8 exist.
9 So I -- I -- I just have difficulty with it
10 personally.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other conversation
12 about the item?
13 Is there a motion?
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'd -- I'd like to
17 have them handled independently, sir, if you
18 would, the --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, sure.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- 27 -- 72A and
21 72B.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Item 3, 72A.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion?
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second?
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: All in favor, say aye.
4 THE CABINET: Aye.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Parcel 72B, is there --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- a motion?
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did you say no?
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did you say no loud enough?
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
16 Yes. Yes. I did not say no loud enough.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yes, you did say
19 no loud enough.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now you did.
21 There's a motion and a second.
22 All in favor, say aye.
23 THE CABINET: Aye.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?
25 Thank you.
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1 MR. STRUHS: Item -- Item 4 is the
2 Save Our Everglades Golden Gate Estates South
3 CARL project.
4 The request is to -- I'm sorry -- it's
5 consideration of a request specifically limited
6 to the portion of the Save Our Everglades
7 Golden Gate Estates CARL Project lying south of
8 I-75.
9 What this item would do is it would
10 authorize the Director of the State Lands to
11 extend offers and approve any contract for the
12 sale and purchase of land pursuant to this law
13 at 5,000 over, or up to a 125 percent of the
14 appraised value, whichever is greater, when the
15 purchase price per parcel does not exceed
16 $50,000.
17 And, secondly, to offer up to 125 percent
18 of the appraised value when the purchase price
19 per parcel exceeds $50,000.
20 This is a project that I think you are all
21 very familiar with. It's something that we
22 called the mega multiparcel approach, where
23 it's a very large piece of property that has
24 been subdivided into very small units.
25 The challenge of -- of, first of all,
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1 identifying the owners and reaching them and
2 getting them to -- to respond is one that is
3 very time consuming.
4 We've had some good success, but have now
5 reached the point where in order to get more
6 takers and willing sellers, we believe it's
7 prudent to be able to offer this additional
8 incentive.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I've got a question,
12 Governor.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The -- the purchase
15 of -- or -- or the utilization -- the intended
16 use of this property ultimately is dependent on
17 owning all of the property, as I understand it.
18 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And there are
20 96 parcels, as I understand it, that are --
21 it's not sure perhaps as to the level of their
22 development. But --
23 MR. STRUHS: Correct.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- some of them are
25 developed, some are used for business, some
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1 have some sort of facility on it.
2 If you were to acquire these 4,000 I think
3 is the number that's outstanding,
4 4,000 parcels, or 4,000 owners, what do you --
5 what can -- what confidence do you have in the
6 96 -- before we go to some great expense
7 here -- and -- and I guess, in some respects,
8 try to protect or utilize 15 million dollars
9 that we will lose if we don't use it -- what
10 are -- what are the -- what are the prospects
11 for the 96?
12 Are we -- are we in an eminent domain in a
13 policy that we have that we will not go after
14 someone's property if it's their dwelling --
15 MR. STRUHS: Right.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- on an
17 eminent domain basis?
18 Are we -- are we in a catch-22 here?
19 MR. STRUHS: Well, I -- I don't know if
20 it's a catch-22. But -- but we are sort of
21 midway through a process that was begun long
22 ago.
23 And it's probably worth pulling out this
24 map, if -- if you -- if you could, please. And
25 just bring it right up here.
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1 The green parcels are the ones already
2 acquired --
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Uh-hum.
4 MR. STRUHS: -- I believe. Is that
5 correct?
6 MR. CORAM: That's correct.
7 MR. STRUHS: And -- and --
8 Take it right up there, sir.
9 And -- and the white ones are -- are not
10 yet acquired.
11 Clearly we are -- we are well into this --
12 this program. The desire, of course, is to --
13 to not waste at lot of time and accelerate it
14 and -- and finish it out.
15 You -- you are correct, General, that there
16 are a number of properties that have been, over
17 the years, developed to some extent or the
18 other. Some legally, and -- and some perhaps
19 not.
20 The policy of the Cabinet as -- as you well
21 know, is to not use, as I understand it,
22 eminent domain, or -- or to condemn property
23 that has been homesteaded. It's a policy that
24 you can, of course, revisit as you see fit at
25 any time in the future.
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1 But we have been focusing primarily on
2 acquiring those parcels that are -- are not
3 developed --
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Where are the
5 96 located, are they scattered throughout,
6 or --
7 MR. STRUHS: They -- they are scattered.
8 And I gave you a -- I tried to give you a
9 definitive answer to your first question when I
10 said yes.
11 There's always the possibility, as this
12 project winds down, that if some of those
13 parcels are in certain locations, that the
14 engineering could potentially be done so that
15 they could actually --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
17 MR. STRUHS: -- stay on their site. There
18 may be others, however, just like a highway
19 project, where that would be impossible.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Sure.
21 MR. STRUHS: And I -- I don't think we're
22 quite there yet. I think -- one of the things
23 I would suggest is when you look at a project
24 like this, if -- if this were simply acquiring
25 land for conservation, and it was homesteaded
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1 and developed and people were living on it,
2 there was -- it's highly unlikely, I believe,
3 that -- that the Cabinet would consider
4 eminent domain to take somebody's property for
5 that purpose.
6 This is -- is really different in that it's
7 not just acquiring land for conservation. This
8 is really more a public utility. This is --
9 this is creating a flowage easement. It's more
10 on par with building a bridge, or a highway, or
11 something like that. It's a place to -- to put
12 and move water.
13 So to the extent we can round out the
14 acquisition, design the engineering in a way
15 where we can save perhaps some of the -- the
16 homesteads that are currently out there,
17 they're perhaps on the outskirts. They're
18 recognized in the final analysis that maybe
19 some of the interior that -- that are going to
20 pose a problem.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
22 Is there a motion?
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
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1 Without objection?
2 It's approved.
3 MR. STRUHS: And there is one more item.
4 Substitute Item Number 5, Whitley Marine.
5 This is a -- a marina that was
6 substantially damaged by two hurricanes. And
7 the applicant, the Whitley family, represented
8 today by Diane Whitley, would like to
9 essentially reconstruct what was there.
10 It would be the modification of a ten-year
11 sovereignty submerged land lease. And
12 authorization for the severance of 600 cubic
13 yards of sovereign material, and authorized --
14 authorization for the placement of 192 cubic
15 yards of -- of riprap.
16 I would point out just a couple of
17 extenuating circumstances. The Whitleys are --
18 are holding a FEMA loan to allow them to
19 rebuild. But the terms of that Federal loan
20 are time limited. So they are under some time
21 pressure there.
22 I would also point out that the City of
23 Cocoa, which is represented here, and would
24 like to speak to the issue, are willing to put
25 in for the first time some manatee speed zones
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1 in this immediate vicinity, in an area where
2 they do not currently exist.
3 And they are also at this property
4 proposing to eliminate an existing boat ramp.
5 So you would actually have potentially fewer
6 launchings of boats from this particular
7 property.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Eliminate the only
9 boat ramp, or -- did you say?
10 MR. STRUHS: I think it's the only ramp at
11 this particular property. There -- there is a
12 public ramp nearby.
13 A number of speakers.
14 Sandra Clinger, from whom you've already
15 heard, would like to address this issue.
16 And then we also have the Mayor of the
17 City of Cocoa with us today, Judy Parrish; and
18 a Councilman, Michael Blake; the City Planner,
19 Gary Rogers; and then, finally, the -- the
20 owner of the property would like to speak,
21 Diane Whitley.
22 So if you could cue up in that order,
23 please.
24 MS. CLINGER: Good morning again.
25 My name's Sandra Clinger. Probably not the
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1 representative you're used to seeing from
2 Save the Manatee Club. I am the East Central
3 Florida Regional Coordinator for the Club.
4 Save the Manatee Club --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, so that's why you
6 didn't know about Citrus County.
7 MS. CLINGER: There you go. Yeah. I -- I
8 do Brevard, Volusia, and Indian River County.
9 Those are my areas of coverage.
10 And I'd like to thank you for the
11 opportunity to express our concerns with regard
12 to this project in Brevard County.
13 Save the Manatee Club's been following this
14 project for several months, due to its location
15 in the most important and most dangerous county
16 for manatees in Florida.
17 I apologize to the Governor and Cabinet and
18 their Aides for the short time frame given to
19 you to review our concerns. Save the Manatee
20 Club had received a commitment from the
21 Department of Environmental Protection, the
22 Director of the Central District Office, that
23 the recommendations of the Fish and Wildlife
24 Conservation Commission, Bureau of Protected
25 Species Management, which are included in your
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1 package, would have been included fully in the
2 permit conditions.
3 This is reiterated in your agenda package
4 today, and it is not correct.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: What is not correct,
6 I'm sorry?
7 MS. CLINGER: It's not correct. The -- in
8 your agenda package, at the bottom sentence in
9 the background information, it lists the
10 Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's
11 recommendations.
12 And the last item says: These items have
13 been included as specific conditions in the
14 environmental resource permit. They have not
15 all been included. They've been modified.
16 As a result of that, Save the Manatee
17 Club -- Save the Manatee Club had been willing
18 to stay out of this one. We would have been
19 happy to stay out of this one, had those
20 conditions been met -- been incorporated fully.
21 In recognition of the hardship that the
22 Whitleys have faced due to the storm damage
23 from the -- from the storms last fall, we were
24 willing to compromise our position and stay out
25 of this, and go along with the recommendations
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1 of the Bureau of Protected Species Management.
2 Since DEP has not lived up to that
3 commitment, we're having to present our
4 concerns and put together our concerns in a
5 very short time frame.
6 There's another error in the agenda package
7 you have presented before you. It indicates
8 that this project is in an existing manatee
9 protection speed zone. It is not.
10 It is at least 3 miles from the nearest
11 manatee protection zone to the north, and
12 almost 18 miles from the nearest manatee
13 protection zone to the south.
14 And while I -- I'm very pleased to hear
15 that the City of Cocoa is interested in
16 pursuing manatee protection, any manatee
17 protection boat speed zone proposed for this
18 project would have to be signed and implemented
19 and shown to be effective before we could --
20 could see that it would offset the potential
21 impacts of this project.
22 Also, the City of Cocoa is limited to their
23 jurisdictional boundary, which is a very
24 limited area around the project, and does not
25 encompass the full boaters' sphere of influence
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1 of the site.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have a
3 question, Governor.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you,
6 Governor.
7 Ma'am, your -- your manatee aerial survey
8 data says -- well, first off, how many manatee
9 do we believe there are -- there are in Florida
10 at this point in time?
11 MS. CLINGER: The most recent minimum
12 count, which is a synoptic survey they do in
13 the winter, indicated 2,222 manatees in
14 Florida.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Two thousand
16 two hundred and twenty-two.
17 MS. CLINGER: -- twenty-two.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
19 MS. CLINGER: Can you believe that?
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: The -- and
21 your note here says that within a 5-mile
22 radius, there were 1210 manatees observed
23 during 26 overflights.
24 MS. CLINGER: That's correct.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And as many
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1 as 529 manatees have been observed in one day.
2 So that means that within a very, very
3 short distance of this marina is about
4 25 percent of all the manatee in the state of
5 Florida.
6 MS. CLINGER: I'm -- I'm getting to that --
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. So
8 I -- I just want you to get to it a little
9 quicker.
10 MS. CLINGER: I'm sorry.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So,
12 therefore, at the recommendation I think
13 that -- that you're willing to go with
14 originally, was that there be only 59
15 power boats at this point in time. There'd be
16 66 total that can go on the outside, 59 power.
17 But there's also dry storage. And that dry
18 storage would not -- included -- that there are
19 any power boats in the dry storage, it would be
20 in addition to that 59.
21 So your concern is, let's take the 59 now,
22 then do the study, and if it shows that --
23 that -- that there can be a number of
24 additional power boats in dry storage, you will
25 agree with whatever -- whatever that number is.
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1 MS. CLINGER: I'm sorry. I didn't
2 understand the --
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That --
4 MS. CLINGER: -- last part.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: After the
6 study --
7 MS. CLINGER: Uh-hum.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- that the
9 FEMA money now must be spent within a certain
10 period of time, or they lose it, and all of us
11 are sympathetic to that.
12 MS. CLINGER: Right.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Twenty-five
14 percent of the manatees are within a few miles
15 of this.
16 You are concerned that if there are more
17 than 59 power boats --
18 MS. CLINGER: At the facility.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- at the
20 marin-- at the facility, it would be a serious
21 danger to the manatee. That may or may not be
22 the correct number. There may be many more
23 that -- that could be added.
24 So you're saying that you would at this
25 point in time not want any more than 59. But
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1 we understand also, there's going to be a
2 study; and after that study, it may very well
3 be increased to a higher number.
4 MS. CLINGER: We're -- we're certainly
5 willing to look at any additional information
6 that the applicant could bring forward to
7 establish that she presently has in the normal
8 course of business more boats existing at that
9 facility than she --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. And
11 also the Fish and Wildlife Commission also
12 agree with your position of 59; is that
13 correct?
14 MS. CLINGER: That's correct.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
16 Thank you.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
18 Any other speakers?
19 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
20 We have the -- the public officials from
21 the City of Cocoa.
22 But -- but I would like to, if I could,
23 just quickly apologize and acknowledge the two
24 errors that were noted.
25 In your briefing, it says is there a
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1 manatee protection speed zone. The answer
2 there says, yes.
3 Indeed, the -- the answer is no, as I
4 indicated at the beginning of the presentation.
5 But the City of Cocoa has indicated their
6 willingness to -- to impose that speed zone,
7 and that was the reason for the mistake.
8 Later in the briefing, it -- it does talk
9 about the recommendations from the Bureau of
10 Protected Species Management at the Fish and
11 Wildlife Conservation Commission. And it says
12 that these items have been included as specific
13 conditions in the environmental resource
14 permit. That, indeed, is an error. They have
15 not.
16 And -- and I'd like to explain why that
17 error occurred. It was not malicious at all.
18 The -- the difference is there was a
19 confusion in the communications between the two
20 respective offices, because one office was
21 talking about slips -- spaces for boats on the
22 water, and the other was looking at the water
23 and spaces for boats on the land.
24 And it was a simple miscommunication. And
25 the folks who wrote this up believed that they
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1 were representing it correctly. After it went
2 to press, it was discovered that there was
3 this -- this difference.
4 And, indeed, I think that difference
5 probably gets to the heart of the issue in
6 terms of what's on the table now is -- is
7 the -- the permit's ability to allow the dry
8 storage of boats on land.
9 But with that, allow me to introduce the
10 Mayor of the City of Cocoa, Judy Parrish.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Mayor.
12 MS. PARRISH: Hi. Thank you.
13 I'd like to thank you for allowing the
14 City of Cocoa to speak to you today, and for
15 the recognition of our Florida Solar Energy
16 Center. We appreciate that. That's also in
17 our city.
18 I'm Judy Parrish. And I'm here speaking on
19 behalf of the City of Cocoa; as well as our
20 Deputy Mayor, Michael Blake; and our City
21 staff, Gary Rogers, in our Community
22 Development Department.
23 The Whitley Marina -- just to summarize it
24 for time's sake -- the marina's importance to
25 our city, it represents a long established
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1 small business in our community; it lends
2 economic viability to our quaint, historic
3 main street in downtown; it is a key part of
4 our redevelopment plan; and it ensures public
5 access and understanding of a wonderful natural
6 resource for our community.
7 It's been a key element in the history of
8 our city for hundreds of years. And this
9 marina has been a -- a vital part of that, and
10 we'd like to keep that.
11 We feel some of the issues being raised
12 are -- are local issues, and should probably be
13 decided locally.
14 And I'm going to defer any detailed
15 questions that you may have to the DEP or to
16 Mrs. Diane Whitley regarding the marina.
17 We did want you to know that the City
18 supports this, and hope that you will help us
19 keep this viable asset to the history of our
20 community, and approve the permit as
21 recommended, and restore this marina.
22 Thank you.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mayor.
24 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other speakers?
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1 David, any other speakers?
2 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
3 Michael Blake.
4 MR. BLAKE: Yes, sir.
5 Good morning, Governor Bush, Cabinet
6 members.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
8 MR. BLAKE: My name is Michael C. Blake.
9 I'm the Deputy Mayor of Cocoa.
10 I would like to speak in reference not only
11 as an elected official, but an individual that
12 was born and reared in the great city of Cocoa.
13 And the Whitleys have been an instrumental
14 icon in the great city of Cocoa. They've been
15 established there for 30 years, and we as
16 citizens of Cocoa is asking of your undying
17 support to support our issues and the Whitleys'
18 permits, please.
19 And I would be remiss if I wouldn't say
20 this, sir. In the big circle of life, there
21 are a inner circle. And in this inner circle
22 are people who does not include us.
23 But to me, to expand myself, I expanded my
24 circle to engulf all those individuals. So
25 we're asking you to be -- let us be a part of
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1 this.
2 And thank you for your support.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
4 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
5 MR. ROGERS: Yes.
6 Good morning, Governor, members of the
7 Cabinet, ladies and gentlemen.
8 I'm Gary Rogers. I'm the Development
9 Manager for the City of Cocoa. I simply wanted
10 to let you know that at the time when I
11 reinstruct, we were in the process of
12 completing a waterfront boardwalk on what I
13 will call the southern half of our downtown
14 area.
15 It was State resources that allowed us to
16 build that boardwalk. And at the time we were
17 literally in negotiations with the Whitleys to
18 secure rights to cross their lands to create
19 further public access by extending our
20 boardwalk some 900 feet northward.
21 Irene not only put the Whitleys out of
22 operation, they damaged the objectives of our
23 downtown redevelopment plan, and our successful
24 pursuit of public access for Florida's waters.
25 Because this project relies upon the permit
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1 authority that you have here today, and because
2 there is additional future public access
3 assured by the approval we're seeking, I rise
4 today to ask you to please lend your support to
5 what's before you today.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
7 MR. STRUHS: The last -- last -- the last
8 speaker is Ms. Diane Whitley from
9 Whitley Marine.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Ms. Whitley.
11 MS. WHITLEY: Good morning, Governor and
12 Cabinet members. And thank you for the
13 opportunity to come here and speak before you
14 today.
15 And also I would like to say thank you to
16 Misty for that great speech which gave me
17 inspiration to be able to stand here and not
18 quaver.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's nothing to be
20 worried about. We're happy you came all the
21 way up.
22 MS. WHITLEY: Thank you.
23 I would just like to ask this body to
24 approve the permit as recommended by the DEP.
25 We have worked very hard with the DEP and with
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1 many other people, the -- the Aides -- the
2 Cabinet Aides here, the DEP to bring forth a
3 very good project that will hold for the next
4 20 years hopefully without any hurricane
5 damage. And we feel it is very environmentally
6 friendly.
7 And we would appreciate your support.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
9 MS. WHITLEY: Thank you very much.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: General?
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I just have
12 one question, and it's not an unfriendly
13 question.
14 The -- how many power boats do you have now
15 in dry storage, or do you anticipate having in
16 dry storage?
17 MS. WHITLEY: Are you asking me how many we
18 have at this day at this moment, or what our
19 capacity is, or what we may have ever had at
20 one time?
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any of those.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Any -- any
24 of those. Just give me some idea. I mean,
25 I -- because from what I understand, you have
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1 agreed that if there's a study done, and
2 X number of power boats can be there, whether
3 it be dry or wet, that you agree with that
4 number; is that correct? Or --
5 MS. WHITLEY: No, sir.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
7 MS. WHITLEY: That is not my understanding.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
9 MS. WHITLEY: I -- I think that -- that
10 that leads to the question of placing some
11 limit on the uplands, whether it's eight boats,
12 twenty boats, thirty boats, or -- or whatever.
13 And I believe there are systems in place
14 that address limitations on the uplands. That
15 would be zoning; comprehensive use plan; and
16 also the process of the DRI, which affects the
17 uplands.
18 And so what I would be asking of this Board
19 is to allow the lease to go forward with the
20 limitations that the DEP has recommended.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: They have no
22 limitations.
23 MS. WHITLEY: Yes, they do.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What are the
25 limitations?
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1 MS. WHITLEY: The limitations are a total
2 of 66 vessels. We used to be able to
3 accommodate a minimum of 74, and possibly more.
4 Forty-seven of those sixty-six vessels are
5 permanent slips. We used to have 50 permanent
6 slips, of which 46 were certified as being
7 available to the public on a first-come,
8 first-served basis.
9 And we have no limits whatsoever at this
10 point on our uplands as to what utilization can
11 be made of them.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
13 MS. WHITLEY: And I -- I would hope that
14 the occasion of our hardship created by the
15 hurricane would not be used to force
16 restrictions on us that don't exist, and
17 perhaps should come under another venue.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: My concern
19 is, Governor, and Cabinet members, that the
20 Fish and Wildlife Commission have -- have --
21 have a great deal of concern here, it appears,
22 and -- and -- and that's my problem with this.
23 I -- I -- I have no idea as to how many
24 boats should be in the uplands. And as
25 Commissioner Nelson has stated, a lot of these
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1 manatee cannot even get over to your -- your
2 part of the waterway.
3 But I just have a little bit of concern
4 with -- with it being unlimited. That's my --
5 I mean -- and maybe unlimited --
6 MS. WHITLEY: We're not unlimited, sir. If
7 you --
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, yeah.
9 But --
10 MS. WHITLEY: -- were to --
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- but so
12 far as we're concerned up here, we -- we have
13 no more authority. Once we approve, it's over.
14 MS. WHITLEY: No, sir.
15 If we were to try to build the -- the
16 thing -- the thing I think that they fear most,
17 which would be a dry stack facility --
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right.
19 MS. WHITLEY: -- that would accommodate
20 many power boats --
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right.
22 MS. WHITLEY: -- we would be subject to the
23 DRI process.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: But
25 that's --
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1 MS. WHITLEY: A threshold limitation on --
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- compare
3 the --
4 MS. WHITLEY: -- the uplands.
5 But also the -- the submerged land and the
6 uplands limitations join to create the
7 thresholds that would be -- that would come
8 into play.
9 So we would have to go through that entire
10 process. We couldn't simply just get a permit
11 from the City and go build an access point for
12 100 boats.
13 However --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: How much acre-- how much
15 upland acreage do you have?
16 MS. WHITLEY: We have roughly --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: A lot.
18 MS. WHITLEY: -- two-and-a-half acres.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Two-and-a-half?
20 MS. WHITLEY: Yes.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: So how are you going to do
22 a DRI, just out of curiosity?
23 Isn't there a thresh--
24 MS. WHITLEY: Well, we have no --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- isn't there --
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1 MS. WHITLEY: -- we have -- understand, we
2 have no plans to build a dry stack facility.
3 What we're asking is that you not limit
4 the -- the potential of our property and damage
5 its value by placing restrictions that may
6 never -- that may be a moot point. They may
7 never come into play.
8 We have no present intentions whatsoever of
9 increasing the power boat capacity, if you
10 will.
11 In fact, our goal is to step in another
12 direction entirely. What we're really saying
13 is that we would still like to have the
14 flexibility to utilize our property, or even
15 sell it to somebody else, for marine purposes.
16 And we feel that the protections that the
17 Save the Manatee Club is seeking are valid, but
18 adequately addressed through other processes on
19 the uplands.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: General.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, I
22 have no doubt at all about what you're saying
23 is accurate, and -- and you have no intent
24 probably to -- to stack. On two-and-a-half
25 acres, you can do an awful lot of stacking.
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1 You've been here now for 30 years. Do you
2 plan on selling this facility?
3 MS. WHITLEY: We have been attempting to
4 market it for a number of years. There --
5 unfortunately, marinas do not attract
6 investment dollars in the state of Florida
7 right now.
8 The limitations that are being placed on
9 them, and are attempted to be placed on them
10 are a factor that is driving investment money
11 away from us. We may be there until we are
12 forced to walk out on the docks with a walker
13 in our eighties, if -- if things continue the
14 way they are.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What -- what
16 is the maximum number of power boats you've had
17 in wet and dry storage at any given time?
18 MS. WHITLEY: It -- it -- you know, until a
19 couple of weeks ago, I was never -- this
20 question was never brought to my attention.
21 It's not something that I have gone out and --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, you --
23 MS. WHITLEY: -- counted.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: But just a -- a guesstimate
25 of the capacity on the dry storage side. You
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1 told us what the marina storage was.
2 What -- what is the current dry storage
3 capacity?
4 MS. WHITLEY: What size boats?
5 We -- we have --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: In numbers of units, how
7 about that? Just --
8 MS. WHITLEY: Well, it depends on the size
9 of the boat --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Give me a range.
11 MS. WHITLEY: -- that we could put there.
12 We normally deal in very large boats. But
13 we also deal in some smaller boats.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think -- I think
15 Attorney General Butterworth is interested, is
16 it bigger than a bread basket, or is it a --
17 I mean, it doesn't have to be the exact number.
18 Is -- just the scale and scope of what --
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I don't want
20 to hurt you --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Help --
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- he's trying to --
24 MS. WHITLEY: Are you asking me -- well,
25 see, you have to remember, 30 years ago we
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1 started in business actually manufacturing
2 custom ski and racing power boats.
3 And then we evolved over the years into
4 retailing power boats, large trawlers and
5 cruisers.
6 Then we evolved away from the retailing of
7 power boats into the retailing of sailboats.
8 And now we're retailing even further away
9 from the marine business on the uplands.
10 But our -- our plans are not final, and we
11 don't want to lose -- we don't want to burn our
12 bridges behind us and have the flexibility and
13 use of our property denied to us for the marine
14 business.
15 But we are attempting to move away from
16 that usage on the uplands.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
18 thank you.
19 I -- I don't want you to lose the FEMA
20 money. My only concern is -- and I have no
21 idea what the real number should be.
22 But when -- when our Protected -- when our
23 Bureau of Protected Species Management has real
24 problems, I personally have a problem.
25 I would like to offer a suggestion, that --
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1 how many do you have in there now? I mean,
2 you -- you probably have no boats there now,
3 because your facility is pretty much --
4 MS. WHITLEY: Well, in the mar-- in the
5 water, it's fairly limited right now --
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right.
7 MS. WHITLEY: -- as to the number. But on
8 land, we do have a number of boats.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: How many do
10 you have on the land --
11 MS. WHITLEY: To --
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- right
13 now?
14 MS. WHITLEY: -- to answer you
15 historically, both inside our building and in
16 our yard -- and, again, you would have to -- we
17 would have to know whether you're referring to
18 boats that were in storage; or boats that were
19 there for repair, because we also repair boats.
20 We're a boat yard. And boats that were there
21 in inventory that were being brokered and held
22 for sale.
23 But total number of vessels for all
24 purposes, I would venture to say 34, to --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
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1 MS. WHITLEY: -- 40. Somewhere in there.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did you hear that?
3 Thirty-four to forty. Got an answer.
4 MS. WHITLEY: However, that is not -- that
5 is not the limit of the number of boats that we
6 could put there. That's --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand. I
8 understand. It --
9 MS. WHITLEY: -- a mix of large --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the point --
11 MS. WHITLEY: -- and small boats.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- your point has been
13 crystal clear, that you do not want us to
14 encumber the value of your property. That's
15 basically what you're saying.
16 But the -- the Attorney General was trying
17 to give you some slack by just getting some
18 real world considerations put into the
19 conversation about what you currently operate
20 in terms of dry boat storage; and you answered
21 it, and we appreciate it.
22 Thank you.
23 Any other questions?
24 Yes, Commissioner.
25 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I think
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1 that -- well, first of all, I'd like to move
2 the staff recommendation by DEP.
3 And further that we direct DEP to sit down
4 with all the interested parties to discuss the
5 common ground that it can be reached so that
6 this marina can be rebuilt, and the needs of
7 the manatees in the area also be taken into
8 consideration.
9 And in moving the staff recommendation, I
10 want to thank the efforts of the Save the
11 Manatee Club; the Whitleys; the Fish and
12 Wildlife Commission; the staff; and
13 Mrs. Garfein, the District Director of the
14 DEP's Central District.
15 Governor, I believe the Whitleys have been
16 good stewards of the natural resources of this
17 area. I think they have expressed their good
18 faith. They were destroyed by a natural act of
19 the hurricane.
20 And yet, at the same time, we're concerned
21 also about the protection of the environment
22 and the endangered manatee. As the
23 Attorney General had mentioned, within this
24 5-mile radius, there are an awful lot of
25 manatee. But many of them on this map that has
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1 been handed out are up in Sykes Creek and the
2 Banana River, which save for a manatee coming
3 across the barge canal, could not get into the
4 Indian River.
5 And yet, it is a unique situation. And
6 I believe that it can be favorably resolved for
7 all concerned here.
8 So I move the staff recommendation.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I second that.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I just have
12 one question, Governor, if I can.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Please.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And that is,
15 the last thing you want is somebody to appeal
16 what's happening today. If they do that,
17 your -- your FEMA money is going back to
18 Washington.
19 So as I understand the Commissioner's
20 motion, it is for everybody to sit down and
21 work out some type of resolution.
22 Is that correct, Commissioner?
23 TREASURER NELSON: Yes.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Including the speed zone,
25 which was not -- which was committed to orally,
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1 but I didn't see it in the -- in the -- in the
2 actual --
3 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I'd like to hear
4 DEP on that, because I didn't have a
5 specific --
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I think the City --
7 TREASURER NELSON: Ms. Gar--
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- was going to --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: The City was committing to
10 do that. I just -- shouldn't that be part,
11 since there was a commitment that the City
12 was --
13 Yes, ma'am.
14 MS. WHITLEY: I would like to say that the
15 City was intending to offer that to the
16 Save the Manatee Club for a little flexibility
17 on their part, which so far we have not seen
18 any evidence of.
19 But we would hope that they would come to
20 this table with some open-minded --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I think they will.
22 MS. WHITLEY: -- flexibility.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Might -- might
24 trade the -- the speed limit for the appeal,
25 I guess.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I don't
2 know.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: You might want to hire
4 Commissioner Crawford --
5 Any other discussion?
6 TREASURER NELSON: Well, let's -- let's
7 hear from DEP on --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
9 TREASURER NELSON: -- your issue.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: On the speed zone.
11 MS. WHITLEY: Thank you very much.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Or the Mayor, for that
13 matter.
14 Yes, ma'am.
15 MS. PARRISH: DEP can also speak on this
16 issue. I just -- since it did pertain to the
17 City.
18 If granting a slow speed zone would help be
19 a solution to some of the concerns, we'd be
20 willing to -- to offer that, and have offered
21 that. And will stand behind it.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary Struhs?
23 MR. STRUHS: We would be happy to
24 facilitate a discussion between all the parties
25 to see if we can't resolve these -- these few
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1 outstanding issues in a timely way.
2 There's another representative here from
3 the Save the Manatee Club who just tugged at my
4 sleeve, and -- and would like to -- to add just
5 a bit more to --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just a tiny --
7 MR. KARNAS: Thank you.
8 Thank you, David.
9 Governor and Cabinet, I just -- a couple
10 things I wanted to address real quickly.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who are -- what's your
12 name?
13 MR. KARNAS: I'm sorry. Jerry Karnas --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jerry.
15 MR. KARNAS: -- Save the Manatee Club.
16 I'm Assistant Government Relations for the
17 Club.
18 There's a couple of issues here.
19 One is we that very much appreciate
20 Treasurer Nelson's, you know, motion to have us
21 sit down with -- with all interested parties
22 and try to resolve, you know, our differences.
23 One important aspect of that though, we
24 would like to see protected species
25 recommendation taken in that interim as the
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1 interim approval of their recommendation in
2 case of the fact that we cannot come to a
3 resolution.
4 In that case, the manatees are afforded the
5 protection that they so desperately need in
6 this area. And -- and in -- so that --
7 that's -- that's our real stance on it.
8 We are willing to come to the table and
9 talk, you know, with all interested parties.
10 But without any assurance that the manatees in
11 this area are going to be protected, and that,
12 you know, see -- there's a -- been an influx of
13 new documentation here.
14 If Mrs. Whitley seriously does have more
15 boats than she's had in the past on her
16 property, we are more than willing to look at
17 that. But Protected Species made a
18 recommendation on what she furnished them.
19 So if there's a change in that, there seems
20 like, you know, this is another one of the
21 major flaws in the item. So we would like to
22 have Protected Species as an interim measure
23 approve their recommendation, and then we move
24 on and will have -- we will make our commitment
25 to discuss --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't even know what
2 Protec-- is this a division of some --
3 MR. KARNAS: Yeah. Bureau of --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- part of our government?
5 MR. KARNAS: -- Protected Species.
6 I'm sorry, Governor. Bureau of Protected
7 Species.
8 -- take their recommendation. And then
9 we'll sit down with all parties, and -- and
10 then we'll make another recommendation for a
11 total number of boats. But, you know --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
13 MR. KARNAS: That's --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
15 MR. STRUHS: The -- the Florida Fish and
16 Wildlife Conservation Commission, which is
17 where that Bureau of --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
19 MR. STRUHS: -- Protected Species now
20 lives, made -- made six recommendations for --
21 for the DEP permit.
22 My guess, having heard the conversation
23 here this morning, is that five of those would
24 be acceptable to all the parties.
25 The one that is at issue, of course, is a
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1 limitation on the total number of power boats
2 allowed in both wet and dry storage to the
3 lessee.
4 And -- and this, in part, is a -- is a
5 result of an honest communications mistake
6 between two different organizations not
7 distinguishing clearly between wet and dry
8 storage. And -- and I apologize for that.
9 Before we --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion --
11 MR. STRUHS: Before --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- on --
13 MR. STRUHS: -- before we go forward with
14 the motion, I -- I think -- I think we need to
15 know whether or not the Whitleys are going
16 to -- to agree to -- to the motion that would
17 adopt the Fish and Wildlife numbers as -- as
18 the interim --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, no one has made that
20 suggestion. It was a -- the Save the Manatee
21 made that offer. I haven't heard an amendment
22 to the resolution.
23 So you don't have to do anything.
24 MR. STRUHS: Okay.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion on the --
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1 on the -- we've had a motion and a second.
2 Any other discussion?
3 All in favor, say aye.
4 THE CABINET: Aye.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?
6 Motion passes.
7 MR. STRUHS: We're done.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
9 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
10 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
11 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Oh, but
2 Education's still left.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah. Thanks.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: No, it's important.
5 I've got a plane to catch.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. Governor,
7 I'm ready to move the minutes for Education
8 here.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a -- is there a
10 second?
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- May 23rd --
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- meeting.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 (Secretary Harris and Treasurer Nelson
17 exited the room.)
18 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 2.
20 MR. PIERSON: -- is a district charter
21 proposal for Volusia County. This item was
22 deferred from the June 26th, 2000, meeting.
23 Betty Coxe will speak for the Department.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And let me say,
25 Governor, that it's taken a while to get here,
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1 but it's pretty exciting, because Volusia truly
2 has worked -- worked well with us. And this
3 looks like we'll be the first charter district
4 in the whole country if we approve it today.
5 So, Betty.
6 MS. COXE: Governor, members of --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Betty.
8 MS. COXE: -- the State Board. It's good
9 to see you today.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: How are you doing?
11 MS. COXE: Fine, sir. It's an exciting
12 day.
13 Item 2 seeks your approval of a charter
14 school district proposal for the Volusia County
15 Public Schools, and to enter into a performance
16 contract with them.
17 At the last meeting, you heard a
18 presentation about this plan to increase
19 student achievement, and to enhance school
20 management flexibility.
21 The performance goals of this contract are
22 ambitious: They call for every Volusia County
23 school to earn a grade of A or B within
24 three years; they call for progressively higher
25 results on all state and national assessments
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1 taken by Volusia County students; they call for
2 annual academic improvements for all students,
3 including those of disabilities; they call for
4 more rigorous scholastic school offerings, and
5 increased enrollments in college preparatory
6 programs.
7 To assist the District in meeting these
8 goals, perceived regulatory barriers have been
9 specifically identified, and the District will
10 receive exemption from these laws and rules.
11 Additionally, the District agrees to exempt
12 its schools from certain local procedures and
13 policies --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Here, here.
15 MS. COXE: -- that may stand in the way of
16 progress. And the District will annually
17 report its results to you.
18 Y'all, it's an exciting day for us at the
19 Department and for all of our offices that have
20 worked collaboratively to make this happen, and
21 especially for Volusia County Public Schools.
22 And we would like now to ask their team to
23 come forward, including their Superintendent,
24 Bill Hall.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Bill.
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1 MR. HALL: Thank you, Governor Bush,
2 members of the State Board of Education and
3 Cabinet members.
4 Two weeks ago when we were here, we
5 presented a proposal to you that had some
6 questions concerning the 29 ambitious goals.
7 Governor, we went back and talked about
8 those 29 goals, and decided that perhaps we
9 needed 35.
10 But we're going to stick with 29.
11 Let me thank you for allowing us to be
12 here. And let me introduce, first of all, the
13 team that appeared with me two weeks ago, and
14 that's still here.
15 First of all, Tim Huth, our
16 Deputy Superintendent. And next to him is
17 Dr. Chris Colwell, our Assistant Superintendent
18 for Curriculum and Instruction. And this is
19 the best Deputy Superintendent and the best
20 Assistant Superintendent for Curriculum
21 Instruction in America.
22 We also have Rich Kizma, our staff
23 attorney; and Dr. Mary Bennett, who is our
24 Director of Governmental Relations --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: They're not the best in the
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1 country?
2 MR. HALL: Yeah, the best.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I -- I know
4 that -- I know that they're -- they're probably
5 soon going to be the best of every charter
6 district in the country.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's for sure.
8 MR. HALL: By far.
9 This is, indeed, for Volusia County and for
10 the State of Florida, one historic moment in
11 time.
12 A year ago when we started this process of
13 looking at becoming a charter district in the
14 state of Florida, we searched the Internet, we
15 sent out a number of letters, we made a number
16 of phone calls trying to find a district in the
17 United States that was a charter district.
18 We found none. We found a number of
19 charter school consultants, but no charter
20 district consultants.
21 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
22 MR. HALL: So we believe, along with
23 Commissioner Gallagher, that we are the first
24 charter district in the United States. At
25 least we're the largest.
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1 Now, of course, when Hillsborough County
2 receives the same status, they will be the
3 largest at that point.
4 We appreciate what this Cabinet has done,
5 what you've done, Governor, to allow us to try
6 something that's innovative and creative for
7 our students.
8 And I'm not standing here because I'm
9 building a resume. As I told you two weeks
10 ago, my resume is built. I will retire as the
11 Superintendent of Volusia County at some point
12 down the road.
13 We're doing this because we think it is
14 best --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: We all will.
16 MR. HALL: We're doing it because we think
17 it's best for students. And our goals are
18 ambitious --
19 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
20 MR. HALL: -- they are high expectations,
21 and we will reach them.
22 At the last State Board of Education
23 meeting, Commissioner Gallagher held a press
24 conference prior to the start of the Cabinet
25 meeting, and he released the FCAT scores.
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1 And during the meeting, we were counting
2 and analyzing the Volusia County results. We
3 have already met the 2001 goals that we set for
4 ourself. We just fell one school short of
5 meeting the June 2002 --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: We haven't raised the
7 standards yet, Mr. Superintendent.
8 MR. HALL: That's okay. We're going to --
9 we're going to raise them.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good.
11 MR. HALL: We had standards before anybody
12 else set standards, and we're going to continue
13 to do that.
14 But we are proud of our district, we're
15 proud of our teachers, and our local school
16 leaders, and our parents, and our community
17 members.
18 We want to thank the School Board of
19 Volusia County, because they gave us the
20 freedom to search, to analyze, and to go
21 forward with this venture.
22 We want to thank, of course, our
23 Volusia County community.
24 And as I said two weeks ago, it is our
25 belief that this charter district legislation
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1 will allow us to accelerate student learning
2 and achievement, accelerate it beyond our
3 highest expectations.
4 And that's what we're about when we teach
5 children.
6 And with that, I want to say a special
7 thanks to your Cabinet Aides and to
8 Tom Gallagher's DOE staffers. We have worked
9 long and hard.
10 There were some 11th hour discussions
11 yesterday on a couple of matters that came up.
12 We worked through them, and we believe that we
13 have an agreement that everyone can work with.
14 And you will see tremendous results coming out
15 of Volusia County.
16 We're open to any questions.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'd just like to
19 say that they have not come looking to measure
20 by any other measurements than our State
21 standards; and our FCAT exams; and our State
22 accountability process, which I think is good.
23 And we had others that wanted to redo the
24 accountability process.
25 And it's been great working with -- with
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1 your District. And I think that -- that you're
2 going to do things.
3 And so I'm very supportive of it. I'm glad
4 that we're here today.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: I commend you.
6 I'm really excited about this. We don't
7 get a chance to close our eyes and try to
8 visualize -- or dream about doing things
9 differently very often.
10 And in the constraining world of government
11 and politics, you all took -- took up the
12 challenge and did it the right way by getting
13 parents involved and teachers involved and --
14 and your bureaucracy involved. And your
15 leadership has made a huge difference.
16 And I'm -- I'm excited that you've accepted
17 the opportunity to waive some rules, and you're
18 doing the same with the rules that you create
19 on your schools.
20 And I hope that you keep doing it. I hope
21 that we liberate the incredibly fine teachers
22 and principals that exist, and move to a
23 performance oriented child center system.
24 And the world's going to be watching what's
25 going on in Volusia County. And I know we are
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1 excited to help you in any way.
2 I just -- I'm really excited about this,
3 and proud of what you've done.
4 MR. HALL: Thank you.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'd like to move
6 the contract between the State Board of
7 Education and Volusia County School Board in
8 regards to them being a charter school
9 district.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
13 Any other discussion?
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 Thank you very much.
16 MR. HALL: Thank you.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Congratulations.
18 (Applause.)
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And, Governor,
20 Hillsborough's coming right behind them. They
21 weren't quite ready, but we'd like to hold that
22 off until the 26th meeting.
23 And I'd like to move to --
24 MR. PIERSON: Hillsborough is
25 September 12th, sir.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Oh, we're --
2 I'm sorry. September 12th.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: September 12th?
4 MR. PIERSON: Yes, sir. On Item 3 --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 3?
6 MR. PIERSON: -- on Hillsborough, we'd like
7 to defer until September 12th.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion to defer and a
12 second.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And then Item 4,
15 we'd defer that till July 25th, which is
16 Sarasota's, at their request.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion.
18 Is there a second?
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
22 Without -- to defer -- without objection,
23 it's approved.
24 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is the Chance Charter
25 School appeal versus -- versus the School Board
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1 of Alachua County.
2 The State Board of Education considers
3 appeals of denials of charter school
4 applications pursuant to 96-186, Laws of
5 Florida.
6 As prescribed by law, Florida School Boards
7 are given authority to grant approval to
8 applicants who wish to operate charter schools
9 within a district.
10 A further provision of the law allows an
11 applicant who has been denied a charter, the
12 right to appeal the School Board's decision to
13 the State Board of Education.
14 Based on the written record and oral
15 argument presented at this meeting, the
16 State Board must vote to recommend acceptance
17 or rejection of the appeal to the School Board.
18 The vote requires a simple majority of the
19 members, and by law is not subject to the
20 provisions of the Administrative Procedures
21 Act.
22 The rule governing the appeal process was
23 unanim-- unanimously adopted by the Cabinet,
24 sitting as the State Board of Education --
25 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
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1 MR. PIERSON: -- on December 10th, 1996.
2 (Governor Bush exited the room.)
3 MR. PIERSON: It clearly states how this
4 hearing must proceed, and it specifies the
5 following limitations, which must be respected
6 by the applicant, the District School Board,
7 and their representatives.
8 The Notice of Appeal must be based on
9 errors the applicant charges the School Board
10 made in its decision to deny the charter.
11 The written arguments submitted by the
12 applicant to the State Board is limited to
13 discussion of those errors.
14 The record of this proceeding is limited to
15 the written arguments, the charter school
16 application itself, and transcripts of meetings
17 before the District School Board.
18 At this hearing, representatives of each
19 party may give oral argument. Oral argument is
20 limited to a summary of the written arguments
21 previously submitted to the State Board. Each
22 side has been requested to limit its summary to
23 10 minutes.
24 After the summaries are presented, a vote
25 will be taken, and a written recommendation of
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1 the vote will be returned to the District
2 School Board.
3 Representing Chance Charter School is
4 Jackie Garrett.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me just
6 mention to the other Board members, while I
7 have it here.
8 I -- I don't want to have
9 Hillsborough County mad at me because -- saying
10 they weren't ready.
11 They had a previously scheduled
12 School Board activity that conflicted with
13 today's meeting. And for that reason, they
14 asked to reschedule on September 12th.
15 So just want to clarify that.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. Thank you.
17 Okay. You ready?
18 MS. GARRETT: As ready as I'm going --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah.
20 MS. GARRETT: -- to get.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Commissioner Gallagher.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No. He --
23 he chairs it.
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: Oh, I'm sorry.
25 I'm sorry.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's okay.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- he chairs
3 it --
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: You lost your
5 chance in --
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Just trying to --
7 my only chance, you know.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Lock the
9 door, General.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's right.
11 (Governor Bush entered the room.)
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Too late.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Too late?
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's over.
15 You're recognized.
16 MS. GARRETT: Yeah. I want -- I want
17 Governor Bush here.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We've got a
19 struggle for power here, Governor.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: I turned it over to you,
21 but I'll turn it back over to the Governor now.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Ask if he wants to
24 turn it over.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome.
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1 MS. GARRETT: My name's Jackie Garrett --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's been a long morning.
3 MS. GARRETT: Yeah. Really.
4 Not as long --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Three cups of coffee.
6 MS. GARRETT: -- as last time though. We
7 were behind the fiber optic people last time.
8 My name's Jackie Garrett. I'm the
9 Executive Director and a founding Board member
10 of Chance Charter School. I'm also the parent
11 of three children who attend Chance Charter
12 School.
13 I have written and destroyed about six
14 presentations to this Commission over the last
15 several weeks.
16 As simplistic as it sounds, we're here
17 basically because we have not received
18 equitable funding from our District. We have
19 received no IDEA funds for the entire
20 three years of our charter.
21 We have also not received services
22 delivered in the same manner that they were
23 delivered to other public schools within
24 Alachua County.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you stop a second?
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1 MS. GARRETT: Sure.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: How could you not have
3 received IDEA funds?
4 MS. GARRETT: They didn't give them to us.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Don't they run legally with
6 the child?
7 MS. GARRETT: Should. Yes.
8 We were not even allowed to have a copy of
9 the IDEA grant until we made a public records
10 request, and had to pay $8 to get the copy of
11 the grant to see if we were even eligible for
12 any of the -- the funding or services that were
13 applied for by the Alachua County School
14 District.
15 Now, we have operated in the red for
16 three years. If you look at the amount of
17 money that we've operated in the red for the
18 three years that we've been in operation, that
19 it -- it pretty much equals the amount of money
20 that we surmise we should have received from
21 our IDEA funds.
22 We have provided all of our own evaluation
23 services, speech and language services,
24 occupational therapy, physical therapy, and
25 nursing services out of our general revenue
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1 fund for three years.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is only --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So -- so --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So when -- when
6 you do a -- an assessment, you're doi-- you're
7 doing it in-house, you're not having anybody
8 outside do it?
9 MR. GARRETT: We contract privately, and
10 have a psychologist come in and do it for us,
11 and pay --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I just want to --
13 MS. GARRETT: -- them privately.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- make sure I
15 understood what you were --
16 MS. GARRETT: Now, our District --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- saying.
18 MS. GARRETT: -- has -- has stated that
19 they have provided IDEA services to us in the
20 form of administrative services.
21 In reviewing the charter law, our position
22 is that those adminis-- administrative services
23 should have been covered under the 5 percent
24 ESE administrative fee that's deducted from all
25 of the charter schools prior to us getting our
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1 monthly disbursal.
2 All we have received from our District is a
3 staffing liaison that comes out and judges
4 whether a child meets specific staffing
5 criteria for program placement or not.
6 We have had some data entry from ESE.
7 That -- but that has been very problematic
8 as -- as well. We've received no site-based
9 services, as far as students are concerned.
10 And -- I mean, the only help that we've
11 received at all, as far as ESE is concerned, is
12 just the -- the staffing liaison.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: And this has been going on
14 for three years without resolution?
15 MS. GARRETT: For three years, yes, sir.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Seems odd.
17 MS. GARRETT: Yes, it does.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I mean, sure we'll
19 hear -- we're going to hear another side of
20 this issue. So --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, I imagine so.
22 What -- how many students are at the
23 school?
24 MS. GARRETT: We finished the year with 72.
25 We had -- we're -- we're capable of handling,
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1 numbers-wise, according to our charter, up to
2 100. We moved last year though, and -- and our
3 building did not hold --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: How -- how -- is there any
5 differentiation between the State ESE money and
6 the IDEA money?
7 Is that separate and distinct funding
8 sources? So when you say "IDEA," are you
9 referring to a direct funding from the Federal
10 government that is not related to our funding
11 formula?
12 MS. GARRETT: Not related to the WFTE
13 dollars, correct.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: And your -- your -- I have
15 a letter here from the Department of Education
16 to the superintendent regarding the ESE FT--
17 ESE FTE money --
18 Boy, I'm sounding like the thing I'm trying
19 to avoid.
20 -- which says that there was a
21 differential, but a very small one for $1400.
22 MS. GARRETT: That was, I believe, matrix.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Right.
24 MS. GARRETT: We had some --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: So you don't have a --
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1 I mean, your -- your concern does not relate to
2 the basic funding formula the State and the
3 District provide.
4 MS. GARRETT: That is --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: It relates to Federal
6 money.
7 MS. GARRETT: That's part of the issue.
8 But the -- the majority of our problem has been
9 related to not receiving --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
11 MS. GARRETT: -- IDEA funds.
12 We've also -- Danny Wheelock has agreed to
13 work with us if we -- if our appeal is
14 approved, and handle all of our business
15 consulting for next year, which I would be more
16 than happy to turn over to him.
17 He sent us a memo stating that there were
18 18 Federal and state grants that it looked like
19 our District was receiving funds for, that we
20 may or may not have been eligible for. But
21 it's been very difficult for us to get guidance
22 from our District as to what funds we -- we are
23 able to tap into.
24 That information has not been readily
25 forthcoming from District finance members.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm -- I was -- was not in
2 the room when you introduced who you are, and I
3 apologize. But can you --
4 MS. GARRETT: I'm Jackie Garrett. I'm --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jackie, are you the --
6 MS. GARRETT: I'm the director. I'm --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Director?
8 MS. GARRETT: -- I'm a parent, and also a
9 Board member.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Founder.
11 MS. GARRETT: And janitor.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And founder.
13 MS. GARRETT: And founder, right.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, the -- the
15 Dan-- the Danny Wheelock she's talking about is
16 a consultant person that we sent in to work
17 with them on summer school FTEs back in '98.
18 MS. GARRETT: And he was able to -- our
19 first year, he was able to recoup a significant
20 number of dollars for us for ESE transportation
21 funds that were withheld our first year, just
22 from going through our budget and --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'm not -- I'm not
25 sure that he's agreed to do --
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1 MS. GARRETT: Well, he's agreed to work --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- all their
3 financial --
4 MS. GARRETT: Yeah.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So --
6 MS. GARRETT: He has agreed to work with
7 us. He's starting a private consulting
8 business, and he said that he -- he would be
9 willing to help us, if possible. If not --
10 I mean, it would be another consulting firm.
11 We're turning the business aspect over to
12 someone that handles business.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If you're still
14 around, I'm sure that's --
15 MS. GARRETT: If we're still --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- what you're
17 going to be doing.
18 MS. GARRETT: -- around.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's definitely
20 going to have to happen.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Could I ask a question?
22 The -- what I recall is that this is a
23 pretty serious deficit that you're confronted
24 with. It's several hundred thousand dollars;
25 is that right?
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1 MS. GARRETT: The District's -- I think
2 their last figure was 110,000.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: A hundred and ten thousand?
4 MS. GARRETT: What we actually -- and
5 that's, like, from different fund bases. What
6 we actually owe -- I mean, if I were to sit
7 down and pay every bill that we owe right now,
8 it's less than $50,000.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: And that's over and above
10 any money that you received. So --
11 MS. GARRETT: I haven't been able to get a
12 clear-cut idea from our District yet how much
13 money they do still owe us. I mean, they have
14 agreed that there's a -- a --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, put it this -- I'm
16 asking the -- the inverse, which is that you
17 have -- you -- your -- your Board --
18 MS. GARRETT: Uh-hum.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I assume is liable for
20 obligations that amount to $110,000; is that
21 correct?
22 MS. GARRETT: I'm not sure yet.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, today you
24 were asked what debt existed that is not
25 included in the ninety-nine thousand five
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1 hundred and fifty-eight deficit. And you said
2 there's probably about 45,000 more not
3 reported.
4 MS. GARRETT: That is how much -- if I were
5 to sit and -- and pay bills right now. That
6 does not include funds owed back to, like,
7 SIT fund or capital outlay monies. To pay off
8 every person that I owe right now would be less
9 than $50,000.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well -- well, but
11 you have a $99,000 deficit.
12 MS. GARRETT: That -- we borrowed money
13 from our capital outlay --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right.
15 MS. GARRETT: -- expenditure to pay bills
16 with. And that's what part of that deficit --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We used SIT money
18 for expenses, which is --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: A bad thing.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- it's a bad
21 thing. It's an illegal thing.
22 So -- I'm still -- you reported a deficit
23 of 99,000. Okay?
24 And you -- that is before you pay the SIT
25 money back, or after you pay it back?
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1 MS. GARRETT: I believe before.
2 Now, we've also -- we just received a
3 capital outlay expenditure -- or check in April
4 that we need to go back and rebalance some of
5 the account, because we can adjust funds out of
6 that account for maintenance services that we
7 couldn't take out of SIT fund accounts, and for
8 some of our transportation monies we can
9 readjust out of those fund balances.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. I guess we
11 need to hear from the other side here.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, ma'am.
13 MS. GARRETT: Okay.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, sir.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
16 MR. WITTMER: Good morning.
17 My name is Tom Wittmer. I'm here to
18 represent the School Board of Alachua County in
19 this proceeding.
20 I have with me our Director of Charter
21 Schools and School Improvements, Sue Griffith;
22 and also our Director of Finance,
23 Richard Trainor, if you have any specific
24 questions for them.
25 But if I could just take a minute to review
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1 the -- the way that the State of Florida funds
2 the -- the schools, there is a formula, it's
3 complicated, there's lots of different factors.
4 The Legislature establishes some of those
5 factors every year.
6 Basically when a student is in a special
7 program such as ESE, and within that, a certain
8 type of program; or receiving a certain level
9 of service, as defined by the -- what we call
10 the matrix in this discussion, it results in a
11 weighted factor that is then applied to the
12 base student allocation, which is an annual
13 amount set by the Legislature.
14 And then with some other adjustments, that
15 becomes the base student funding. That's the
16 primary way that the State of Florida funds
17 public schools.
18 And every charter school, including all the
19 charter schools in our district, receives
20 their -- their direct proportional part of
21 that -- of that weighted FTE funding from --
22 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
23 MR. WITTMER: -- the State.
24 The Chance Charter School in -- as of
25 April 30th of this year, Chance had received
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1 three -- over three hundred and seventy
2 thousand dollars in -- in that type of funding,
3 FEFP, for education finance funds.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, are you --
5 are you saying that -- that that's the total
6 amount that they received that had a -- part of
7 the matrix, or are you saying that's above the
8 base level for --
9 MR. WITTMER: It's --
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- driven by the
11 matrix?
12 MR. WITTMER: -- it's the -- it's the --
13 it's the base student funding, including all
14 the matrix weights, yes, sir.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excluding Federal money?
16 MR. WITTMER: It did not include Federal
17 money, it did not include some other
18 categoricals, which are in there.
19 If you look in the Appendix C to our appeal
20 document, it has a lot of different schedules
21 in there, and a lot of different kinds of --
22 their accountant provided that to us. That was
23 as of April 30th.
24 We haven't received anything yet for May or
25 for June to finish out the year.
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1 There was some question about the matrix
2 values, and we -- we worked with the school
3 through that. We had meetings; we made
4 adjustments; we've sent the documents off to
5 the DOE, and got some input from them.
6 And it's my understanding now that we're
7 down to about $8,000 of differences, and we can
8 work that out. Those -- it's really, as
9 Ms. Garrett said, a fairly minor amount at this
10 point.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Does this boil down to the
12 right of this -- these students to access
13 Federal money?
14 MR. WITTMER: Yes, sir. And I -- I want
15 to --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that where the deficit
17 comes from?
18 MR. WITTMER: -- I want to speak about the
19 grant fund in just -- right after this.
20 I -- the -- there -- as far as State
21 funding goes, we believe the school received
22 everything that they were entitled to, with
23 those few adjustments possibly for a few
24 students still that we got back from DOE.
25 Now, the -- the IDEA grant is -- is a -- a
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1 specific grant that comes to the states, and
2 flows through to the districts, which are
3 called local education agencies. This is a
4 Federal law. It's -- it's intended to provide
5 for the needs of the -- of the programs over
6 and above whatever this particular State funds.
7 Obviously it doesn't fund for everything.
8 But it comes in, and -- and it does depend on
9 the amount -- the number of students in the
10 district. That's how this -- this
11 Department of Education calculates that as it
12 distributes it out to the districts.
13 But there is no requirement that the --
14 that the grant funds be then distributed by the
15 local education agency to the schools on a per
16 student basis.
17 And I would refer to the transcript at --
18 at pages 67 and 68 where they talk about the
19 recent audit. We had our ESE department
20 audited recently.
21 Also, there was a letter from the
22 Department of Education interpreting the
23 regulations that way. The Federal regulations
24 basically say that we're supposed to distribute
25 those IDEA funds in the same manner as we
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1 distribute them to all the other schools in the
2 district.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: And you -- stop you.
4 Just -- I think this is the point of -- of the
5 problem.
6 Are you saying that these students -- the
7 seventy plus students that are going to this
8 charter school, aren't part of the public
9 school system, so, therefore, should not
10 receive the IDEA money?
11 MR. WITTMER: No. No, sir, we're not at
12 all.
13 We recognize that the charter school is a
14 public school.
15 What --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Why would you --
17 MR. WITTMER: I think the --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- why would you receive
19 this money, and not proportionately give it out
20 based on the need that is the intent, I think,
21 of the law, which is that this is a civil
22 right.
23 If children with exceptionalities have
24 rights to services, they -- they build their
25 own individual achievement plans, and there's
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1 Federal money, while meager, compared to the
2 demands that they place on us, they still give
3 us Federal money.
4 Why wouldn't that money flow with the child
5 based on their need?
6 MR. WITTMER: The money does not flow to
7 any school in our district based merely on the
8 number of students. It's allocated based on
9 the particular needs of the school or the
10 program.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Then what --
12 MR. WITTMER: In this case, the unique
13 needs of this school were for intensive, direct
14 ESE support services to the staff to help in
15 the writing, the staffing of students that
16 direct the writing of the ind-- individual
17 education plans, and the development of the
18 matrices.
19 The matrix came in the second year the
20 school was -- was operating. So everybody was
21 on a learning curve.
22 At the beginning of this last school year,
23 there were no personnel at the school who
24 were -- who were trained and qualified to do
25 either the IEP or the matrix.
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1 And that's in the transcript at page 74.
2 What -- by -- I want to give you a
3 comparison. In our district, we have
4 Gainesville High School, which is a large
5 school with over 1,000 students.
6 We provide one person from the district a
7 day a month to do staffing specialist type of
8 activities at that school.
9 At Chance, by comparison, with 72 students,
10 the same person was at Chance one or even
11 two days per week throughout the school year.
12 And you can see -- that's in the transcript
13 at page 69.
14 The District believes that this was the
15 essential use of IDEA funds for this school.
16 And it -- it assured that the school was in
17 compliance with the law, that the students were
18 getting staffed and served appropriately, and
19 that they -- that the school was getting the
20 proper levels of funding.
21 It -- it took an intense and continuing
22 kind of attention from the District. And that
23 is how the District has allocated the IDEA
24 funds for this school.
25 And you can find the chart in the -- in
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1 the --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you give me an estimate
3 of what the Federal dollars per student would
4 be so that we can --
5 MR. WITTMER: Yes, sir.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- get a sense of what
7 the -- that -- that service that you're
8 suggesting was -- fulfilled the obligation of
9 the District with the school?
10 MR. WITTMER: The Appendix D, as in --
11 and -- in dog, to the appeal document shows
12 that the federally allocated dollars per
13 student ranged from the first year to $393, to
14 the last year it was 547.
15 And the dollars figures there is showing
16 the -- a number of students. And -- that was
17 based on the count in December. They take a
18 special count in December for this. It isn't
19 the State count.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: D.
21 MR. WITTMER: I'd just like to review real
22 quick for the Cabinet members, if I could, what
23 efforts this District has made to try and help
24 this school and be successful.
25 In 1999, when it became apparent that there
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1 was a continuing problem with the deficit after
2 the Auditor General had reviewed the records
3 the first year, the District paid for an
4 independent audit in May of 1999 by the
5 Davis, Monk firm.
6 We also paid for a review by Nancy Boyd, an
7 independent outside expert, dealing with the
8 matrices and the values for students in the
9 summer of 1999.
10 The superintendent gave notice to the
11 school in July that the continuing deficits
12 were unacceptable, and demanded that they be
13 corrected.
14 And the District increased the ESE support
15 services to the school, and maintained them
16 throughout the term of this contract for
17 three years.
18 There was a corrective action plan that
19 came into being in August of 1999, and there's
20 a lot of District support in there and -- in
21 the areas of personnel and student services and
22 rec-- student records, as well as the ESE.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I -- can I ask a
24 question? I'm sorry.
25 The -- the number -- on the Exhibit D, you
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1 have the number of students is 38 in the
2 December '99 count?
3 MR. WITTMER: That was the count, yes, sir.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: How does that compare with
5 the 74, 75, that the applicant -- or the -- the
6 Director of the school said is the student
7 population?
8 MR. WITTMER: I don't -- I can't answer
9 that directly. I think it may have to do with
10 who is qualified for ESE --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Some of the students --
12 MR. WITTMER: -- services at --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- aren't --
14 MR. WITTMER: -- that time.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- aren't ESE?
16 MS. GARRETT: We would include the -- so
17 not all of our students are ESE.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh. Okay.
19 MR. WITTMER: There's just been a -- a lot
20 of -- of extensive communications and technical
21 assistance over the years with this school.
22 I don't want the Cabinet members to feel
23 that there's ever -- this is an orphan school
24 or a school we've allowed to languish.
25 This is a school we have worked with,
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1 and -- and tried very hard to make successful.
2 As I said, the -- the financial reports are
3 as of April 30th. We don't know about May or
4 June yet. We also don't know about other
5 obligations the school may have.
6 I believe Ms. Garrett mentioned something
7 under 50,000. That would -- that would --
8 would not be included in any figures that --
9 that you have.
10 Our Board and superintendent felt very
11 strongly about this, and they -- they
12 emphasized at the hearing and -- and
13 reluctantly took this action, but they felt it
14 was their duty as elected officials.
15 And I just wanted to let you know that --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: General Butterworth.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Sir, if I
18 could just ask one question here.
19 Other than the issue of finances, is there
20 an issue of quality of education in this
21 particular school?
22 MR. WITTMER: That's not part of this
23 appeal, no, sir.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
25 MR. WITTMER: Nope, that's not.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Not at all.
2 Okay.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Are you finished?
4 MR. WITTMER: Yes, sir.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
6 The -- we have worked very closely with
7 this charter school. I have a technical
8 assistance log that's one, two, three,
9 four pages. The District has worked very
10 closely with this school, and the parents have
11 worked very closely with this school.
12 And -- and on the IDEA funds, the -- the
13 school has filed a formal complaint with us.
14 It's about two weeks old. And it's on fast
15 track.
16 We will analyze and see whether or not
17 their complaint is correct. And we hope to get
18 something back by the beginning of August on
19 that.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: What happens if it is found
21 to be correct?
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Then they -- then
23 we do a -- I do an order, and the -- and the
24 District has to fund the money.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: But if -- is that -- is it
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1 premature to make a decision today on that
2 before you --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No. We can't do
4 that. That's another -- that's an issue that's
5 being investigated.
6 And we just -- we just don't -- I mean,
7 their allegation is that they didn't get any
8 money. And the District says we've given them
9 the services in kind, at whatever, and -- and
10 we need to --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: But you see what --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- investigate
13 that.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- if we -- if we denied it
15 today, and you came back and -- and found
16 that -- that the school had not gotten the
17 proper amount of support --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And all of a
19 sudden that was in the black? I don't think
20 that'll happen. But --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, not --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- it's possible.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- in the black. But they
24 didn't the -- they didn't get, by what the
25 Federal law requires, the assistance that --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Uh-hum.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that they should have
3 gotten.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I'll -- I'll
5 make a recommendation to y'all if you'd like to
6 hear it.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yep.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is -- this is not an
10 easy one.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It isn't easy.
12 And we've worked very closely with them, and
13 I'd -- I'd like to make this.
14 And that is that -- that I've heard the
15 presentations, and I've received six letters
16 from parents. And I sympathize with their
17 wanting to keep the school open.
18 I could support that only if the following
19 actions became a part of the school's contract
20 for next year:
21 Number one, the charter school's governing
22 board would immediately begin a concerted
23 effort at fund raising to abolish the current
24 debt, and build a base for future fiscal
25 viability.
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1 Two, the charter school's governing board
2 would engage the services of a financial
3 management organization or consultant with
4 authority over the revenues, expenditures,
5 bookkeeping, and reporting.
6 Three, the Director and financial manager
7 would provide twice monthly updates to the
8 charter school's governing board and
9 Alachua County's district staff on the progress
10 being made as measured by: Student performance
11 data, full financial disclosure showing
12 additional funds raised, funding received and
13 expenses incurred and paid appropriately, full
14 and complete records for student IEPs and
15 fiscal issues.
16 Number four, the Director and the school
17 staff will make visits to at least three other
18 charter schools.
19 Five, the school will abide by, and
20 continue the corrective action plan in force
21 because of the Commissioner's order. We have
22 one.
23 Six, based on the results of the current
24 DOE investigations of the complaints before it,
25 if any monies are due to the school, the
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1 District would forward them within 15 working
2 days of receipt of the investigation findings.
3 That's it.
4 And I would make a motion that we would
5 allow this recommend-- we can hear -- if she'd
6 like to answer that, I'd be glad to hear it.
7 Jackie?
8 MS. GARRETT: As the Executive Director, I
9 would agree fully with all of your
10 recommendations.
11 We had also discussed the possibility of
12 one of our administra-- administrative
13 positions has been done away with to cover, if
14 Danny does come on board, the costs that would
15 be incurred by -- by using those consulting
16 services.
17 I would also be willing to work myself for
18 free to get our -- our school back in the black
19 again.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, it's got to
21 be run in the black, or it's going to get
22 closed.
23 MS. GARRETT: Yes, sir.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And we know
25 that --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you know --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- you've worked
3 very hard with the students, you care a lot
4 about them, they mean a lot to you, you have
5 your own children there. So I know how
6 important it is to you.
7 At the same time, we have responsibility,
8 as does the school district, to see to it that
9 it operates, you know, as a -- as an ongoing
10 institution --
11 MS. GARRETT: Yes.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- which means it
13 can only operate on the money that's allocated
14 for it.
15 So with your emphasis on students, you have
16 sort of let the other side go. We're going to
17 make you take care of the other side, if the
18 rest of the Board agrees with it.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner, can you
20 elaborate on how this impacts the possible use
21 of capital outlay dollars from the State for
22 operating costs?
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Those have to be
24 reversed as soon as possible. That -- that
25 obviously can't happen.
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1 And they do have some capital outlay that
2 they've now made for some portables and some
3 other things that I think can be --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Reimbursed?
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- I think that
6 they can reimburse the funds and get it done
7 correctly. Although that's what they need this
8 twice monthly report, and to have this
9 financial management organization or
10 consultant, to make sure that all does get
11 straightened out.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can we --
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Commissioner --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- is it okay to get the --
15 the School --
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Sure.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Board?
18 Okay. Well --
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just had a question
20 for -- for the Commissioner before the
21 School Board comes up.
22 This is the first time I've heard about the
23 investigation I guess you briefed this morning.
24 What is the substance of the investigation,
25 just in terms of the IDEA funds?
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, the
2 complaint just came in to us two weeks ago.
3 We -- we get complaints that deal with
4 exceptional students quite often. There's a
5 process they go through. And we then issue an
6 order to the school district on what -- what
7 the -- what our investigation has come to the
8 conclusion, and they're bound by that.
9 This falls into that type of process. And
10 we do have to spend some time investigating.
11 That's --
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Is there --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- it's --
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- is there anything
15 more we should know, I mean, in terms of making
16 a decision today operating with the full
17 information, since we didn't know about it. Is
18 there anything else from that, or --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, there --
20 there's other -- we have had -- we've been
21 working with them for a long time. And there's
22 a long list of -- of complaints and allegations
23 that have been made, and orders that have been
24 issued during this past three years.
25 I think the best thing to say is that
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1 I think that the -- that the -- the school and
2 the people in the school have worked very hard
3 to take care of their students.
4 I don't think any -- you have not heard a
5 complaint anywhere -- I think the one thing we
6 do worry about is -- is a school operating
7 without the students, and we've had some of
8 those here where the students weren't doing so
9 well.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Right.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That is not an --
12 an allegation here. The allegation here is --
13 is a fiscal management more than anything else.
14 And so we're hoping maybe that can get fixed.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Like to just get your
16 opinion on the -- Commissioner Gallagher's
17 res--
18 MR. WITTMER: I haven't talked with anybody
19 back at our Board about it. We certainly do
20 understand the recommendation though, I think
21 all the terms of it.
22 And -- and there is a corrective action
23 plan, like you said, Commissioner, that will be
24 in effect at least for another year if -- if
25 there is a --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many charter schools do
2 you all have?
3 MR. WITTMER: Eight.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean, it's an integral
5 part of your --
6 MR. WITTMER: Oh, yes, sir.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- of your --
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No. They're very
9 pro charter schools --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Right.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So this is not a
12 county that's trying to figure out how to close
13 them. They're -- they're working --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: I just -- I want to commend
15 you, because we've -- we've had these cases
16 where there's clear hostility by the school
17 districts and the charter school applicants
18 where, whether we approved it or not, it was
19 clear that there were going to be some rough
20 sailing, just because school districts can kill
21 little -- little schools that are
22 undercapitalized if they want to beat them down
23 with 1,000 bureaucratic cuts.
24 And I get the feeling that that's not the
25 case here, which I -- I commend.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And let me just
2 add this, that in my opinion -- and this is my
3 opinion -- that the school district looked long
4 and hard about wanting to shut this down and
5 send it to us. Because truly this school is
6 taking care of some students and parents that
7 haven't always been happy with Alachua County's
8 district, have been down there every meeting
9 complaining.
10 And when they had this option, they quit
11 coming down to the District and complained, and
12 have worked very closely with Janet to make
13 things work out.
14 So when they did this, they realized that
15 most of the parents are going to be back down
16 at that School Board complaining about what's
17 happened to their children.
18 So if we can get this school in a good
19 fiscal shape, they're going to take care of the
20 kids, and good things are going to happen,
21 which is what's supposed to happen with charter
22 schools.
23 So I'm glad to hear both sides are willing
24 to look at it, and we'll continue to work with
25 them, and hopefully we'll get it on financial
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1 solid ground.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion.
3 Is there a second?
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
6 Without -- without opposition, it passes.
7 We have more?
8 MR. PIERSON: One last item, sir.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Congratulations,
10 Jackie.
11 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is a rule --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you all very much for
13 coming.
14 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is an amendment to
15 Rule 6A-10.024, Articulation Between
16 Universities, Community Colleges, and
17 School Districts.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
23 concluded.)
24 * * *
25
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1 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
2 12:17 p.m.)
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July 11, 2000
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 1 through 194 are a true and correct
12 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 21ST day of JULY, 2000.
18
19
20 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
100 Salem Court
21 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
850/878-2221
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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Cabinet
Affairs
