T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION SITING BOARD
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
VOLUME I
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Martin County Administration
Building, 2401 Southeast Monterey Road, County
Commission Chambers, Stuart, Florida, on Tuesday,
June 26, 2001, commencing at approximately 9:13 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT COX
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
CHARLES H. BRONSON
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
TOM GALLAGHER
Treasurer
CHARLIE CRIST
Commissioner of Education
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June 26, 2001
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director, Division of Bond Finance)
1 Approved 11
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director)
1 Approved 15
2 Approved 15
3 Approved 16
4 Approved 22
5 Approved 23
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT:
(Presented by James T. Moore,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 25
2 Approved 32
3 Approved 33
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
(Presented by James A. Zingale, Ph.D.,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 34
2 Approved 45
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner)
1 Approved 46
2 Approved 49
3 Withdrawn 50
4 Approved 50
5 Approved 51
6 Approved 51
7 Approved 51
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June 26, 2001
I N D E X
(Continued)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
SITING BOARD:
(Presented by David B. Struhs,
Secretary)
1 Approved 62
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 63
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 5
June 26, 2001
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:37 a.m.)
3 (Attorney General Butterworth not present.)
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now, this is the -- we
5 start the regular part of the -- the meeting.
6 What we normally do is we say our prayer,
7 then we do the pledge of allegiance, then we do
8 resolutions that can range from -- anything.
9 Your wildest imagination can be used for
10 resolutions for people all across the state
11 that come up to where we pay tribute for
12 Floridians that do work -- wonderful things.
13 And now we start our work.
14 And the first -- the State Board of
15 Administration?
16 Or the Division of Bond Finance.
17 Ben Watkins.
18 MR. WATKINS: Actually, I'm doubling --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you --
20 MR. WATKINS: -- Governor, since -- since
21 the only agenda item the State Board of
22 Administration had, I caused, which is a
23 determination of fiscal sufficiency.
24 With your indulgence, I'd like to cover
25 that agenda item for Mr. Herndon.
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June 26, 2001
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, you also probably
2 need to explain what the State Board of
3 Administration is for all the people here.
4 That's one of the requirements.
5 MR. WATKINS: Right.
6 With -- with your indulgence, since you all
7 know what we do, for the benefit of the
8 audience, I'm just going to switch around.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Perfect.
10 MR. WATKINS: The State Board of
11 Administration -- as you'll see today, the
12 Governor and Cabinet wear various hats. They
13 do different things, they serve as a Board for
14 different functions within State government.
15 And -- and what we're doing now is the
16 State Board of Administration, and the
17 governing board members are comprised of the
18 Governor, the Comptroller, and the Treasurer.
19 And the primary business function of the
20 State Board of Administration is to oversee the
21 investment of all of the assets for the Florida
22 Retirement System. So there is -- there are
23 more than 100 billion dollars in assets that
24 those three individuals, as the fiduciaries for
25 all of the City, County, municipal employees
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June 26, 2001
1 and the teachers throughout the state, so that
2 there will be sufficient monies to pay their
3 retirement benefits when they retire. They
4 manage the investment portfolio to assure that
5 happens.
6 As part of the ancillary activities of the
7 State Board of Administration, they also serve
8 as the Trustee for all State bond issues. So
9 that means that they make sure that the
10 money -- the revenues that we have pledged to
11 repay our debt are actually collected, and then
12 remitted to the investors who buy our municipal
13 bonds.
14 So it's in connection with that capacity
15 that they review fiscal sufficiency. So for
16 every State bond issue that the State issues,
17 this Board has to make a determination that the
18 revenues will be sufficient to pay the debt
19 when it's due. And that's what the agenda item
20 is this --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: So --
22 MR. WATKINS: -- morning.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- how many people are in
24 the State Retirement System?
25 You're not off the hook yet.
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June 26, 2001
1 Get back.
2 Seven hundred and sixty thousand, or
3 something like that, right?
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, that -- that
5 are either employees or collecting money --
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- you put them both
8 together to do that.
9 MR. WATKINS: Right.
10 So it -- it is virtually every employee who
11 works for the City, County, State, and all of
12 the teachers throughout the state are
13 participants in the Florida Retirement System.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you briefly --
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: For retirement.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- unless someone -- one of
17 the -- the State Board, by the way, is
18 comprised of the Treasurer, the Comptroller,
19 and the Governor, not -- not the whole Cabinet.
20 And there's one other thing that's kind of
21 a one-of-a-kind undertaking that relates to
22 offering a defined contribution alternative
23 for -- for people in the system.
24 Do you want to describe that?
25 MR. WATKINS: What the -- the primary focus
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June 26, 2001
1 or activities that the staff at the State Board
2 of Administration is undertaking currently is
3 implementing a defined contribution plan.
4 And what that means is, in order to -- with
5 the changing world and the changing work force,
6 and to accommodate people who are not
7 necessarily going to make government a career,
8 they -- we -- the Legislature is -- is -- is
9 requiring, and -- and moving towards converting
10 offering two alternative retirement systems.
11 One is the defined benefit. That's the
12 traditional system where you go in, and you
13 work for a certain number of years and -- and
14 your benefits are defined upon retirement.
15 But then the alternative that is being
16 implemented is a defined contribution plan.
17 And what that does is --
18 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
19 room, and Secretary Harris exited the room.)
20 MR. WATKINS: -- allow people who are --
21 mobility. People who are coming to work in
22 government temporarily, to have more control
23 over their -- their ultimate retirement goals,
24 because it increases portability.
25 In other words, you are given the money and
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June 26, 2001
1 offered an array of investment options, and you
2 can have more control, more direct control
3 over -- over your retirement assets.
4 And so this is actually the world's largest
5 plan conversion, converting from the defined
6 benefit plan, to the defined contribution plan,
7 and offering employees both alternatives as --
8 as a way to meet the needs of a changing work
9 force.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Ben.
11 You handled it well.
12 MR. WATKINS: Any -- anything else,
13 Governor?
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: You better do your
15 item.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're going to do
17 Item Number 1 now on your agenda.
18 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 1 is approval of
19 fiscal sufficiency of up to 21 million dollars
20 in Sunshine Skyway Revenue Refunding Bonds in
21 order to refinance debt at a lower interest
22 rate.
23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'll --
25 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
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June 26, 2001
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and I'll move the
2 item.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion.
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second.
6 Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 Thank you.
9 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
10 was concluded.)
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 12
June 26, 2001
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Division of Bond Finance.
2 You're back.
3 MR. WATKINS: This is my real job. This is
4 my day job.
5 I am the Director of Florida's Division of
6 Bond Finance. And this body, all seven
7 members, serve as my governing board.
8 The role of the Division of Bond Finance is
9 to administer all State bond issues. And what
10 that means from a practical standpoint is the
11 Legislature, through the appropriations
12 process, when they formulate the State's
13 budget, makes the determination of what kinds
14 of projects the State should borrow for, and
15 how much money the State is borrowing.
16 But then that being only a 60-day session,
17 and then they go back to their respective
18 districts, it is left to the Executive Branch
19 of government, represented by this Board, to
20 actually implement the financings.
21 So all State bond issues are reviewed and
22 approved by the Governor and Cabinet before we
23 actually sell bonds.
24 So the -- the role and responsibility of
25 the Division of Bond Finance is to actually
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June 26, 2001
1 oversee the sale of State bonds to fund
2 infrastructure, such as schools and roads,
3 university buildings, and buying
4 environmentally sensitive lands.
5 So it is a secondary review, and the actual
6 administration of implementing each of those
7 borrowings that this Board serves.
8 We have -- this Board has also taken a more
9 proactive role unprecedented at least in my
10 tenure, in terms of evaluating the long-term
11 financial impacts of debt in -- in the form of
12 looking out ten years to see what our revenues
13 are going to be, to -- much like you do in your
14 personal lives, and from a business -- as
15 businesses do, to look and see how much debt
16 the State has outstanding, how much our
17 long-term fixed obligations are in order to
18 make sure that the State doesn't inadvertently
19 exceed prudent debt levels.
20 So --
21 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
22 MR. WATKINS: -- that's another role that
23 this -- this Board plays is to measure,
24 monitor, and manage all of the State debt
25 that's outstanding.
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June 26, 2001
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: What is our outstanding
2 debt, Ben?
3 MR. WATKINS: And to give you a sense of
4 how much debt the State has outstanding, the
5 State has 18 billion dollars of debt
6 outstanding.
7 So in a vast majority of that debt, over
8 half, probably 60 percent, 9 to 10 billion, has
9 been used to fund construction of schools. We
10 also have major programs for acquiring
11 environmentally sensitive lands that you will
12 hear of a report on award of one of those
13 sales.
14 That's Preservation 2000.
15 We've got another ten years that we just
16 commenced implementing another 300 million
17 dollars a year for ten years, another 3 billion
18 dollars for the Florida Forever program, which
19 also deals with the acquisition of
20 environmentally sensitive lands.
21 And we also have financing programs for
22 road and bridge construction, construction of
23 university dormitories and parking garages, and
24 things like that.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well done.
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June 26, 2001
1 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Stellar.
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 Item 2.
8 MR. WATKINS: Item 2 is a resolution
9 authorizing the issuance of up to 9 million
10 dollars in parking facility revenue bonds for
11 construction of a parking facility for
12 Florida Atlantic University.
13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
14 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 3 is a resolution
18 authorizing the issuance, and the competitive
19 sale of up to 21 million dollars in
20 Sunshine Skyway Refunding Bonds in order to
21 refinance high interest rate debt at a lower
22 interest rate.
23 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Motion.
24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
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June 26, 2001
1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 Ben, is this -- when it says this is not
3 the full faith and credit of the State, you are
4 the funding entity, but the -- this is a
5 revenue bond that does not -- if the estimates
6 don't make their numbers, the bond holders pay?
7 MR. WATKINS: Yes, sir.
8 There are two different kinds of debt that
9 the State has outstanding -- actually three
10 different kinds.
11 There are State general obligation bonds,
12 which are secured by the full faith and credit
13 for the -- of the State, which means that if
14 revenues from our pledged revenue source are
15 ever insufficient, the State has agreed to make
16 payments from whatever sources -- resources we
17 have available.
18 Those bonds are required to be approved
19 constitutionally, which means it requires a
20 referendum of the voters. So we have that
21 category of debt outstanding.
22 We also have revenue bonds that are
23 outstanding, which are secured solely by the
24 revenues of a particular enterprise.
25 So, for example, the turnpike has been
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June 26, 2001
1 financed with revenue bonds. And the tolls
2 that you pay for the privilege of driving on
3 the turnpike are used to retire the debt.
4 So when we have an enterprise like
5 toll roads, or like university dormitories,
6 then we pledge those revenues of that
7 particular enterprise to secure repayment of
8 the debt. And those are called revenue bonds,
9 as opposed to general obligation bonds.
10 These are for the Sunshine Skyway, which
11 you know, is a toll bridge from -- connecting
12 St. Petersburg with --
13 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Bradenton.
14 MR. WATKINS: -- Clearwater area. And so
15 it's secured solely by the revenues of the --
16 of the toll bonds, not the full faith and
17 credit of the State.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
19 It's a topical subject in another part of
20 the state where -- which is another form of --
21 that we -- the Garcon Bridge, which I vetoed
22 the subsidy in order to assure that State
23 supported indebtedness should -- should -- the
24 full faith and credit of the State should be
25 defended at all cost, because our credit rating
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June 26, 2001
1 really has an impact on interest rates.
2 But when we -- when we don't have to -- to
3 provide that and someone makes a bad decision,
4 it shouldn't be the State there to bail them
5 out.
6 So we've had a toll bridge that someone's
7 going to have to eat some of the costs because
8 it never was -- never was underwritten the
9 right way.
10 MR. WATKINS: It -- it wasn't financially
11 feasible.
12 And the other thing that I would like to
13 point out that distinguishes that particular
14 project from a number of other State projects,
15 is -- is that bond issue did not go through the
16 normal review and approval process. Normally
17 State bonds would come to this governing board
18 to authorize -- to review the financial
19 feasibility, and authorize their issuance.
20 But in that context, that -- even though
21 the State was involved in -- in providing some
22 financial support for the bridge, the project
23 itself and the financial feasibility were not
24 reviewed by the Executive Branch and by this
25 governing board.
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1 And so that -- there's a clear distinction
2 there between that project and -- and -- and
3 the projects that come before this Board for
4 review and approval.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: And coincidentally, this --
6 this project also had serious environmental
7 issues that were -- were -- were ignored. Had
8 it gone through the normal process, my guess is
9 that that, too, would have -- we would have had
10 a different view on the -- on the subjects.
11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Once in a while, bad
12 things happen.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's right.
14 So where are we here?
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Item 4.
16 MR. WATKINS: On Item 4.
17 Did we get a move and approval of Item 3?
18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Yes.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 Item 4.
23 MR. WATKINS: Item 4 is a resolution
24 authorizing the selection of underwriters in
25 connection with the refunding of
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1 Public Education Capital Outlay bonds.
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
3 MR. WATKINS: Briefly, description of the
4 process, just so everyone understands what
5 undertaking -- how it was -- this
6 recommendation was arrived at.
7 There was a selection committee established
8 in connection with -- normally the State sells
9 bonds on a competitive basis, which means we
10 take bids for bonds.
11 In certain circumstances, it's necessary to
12 engage an underwriting syndicate in order to
13 more effectively sell the bonds into the
14 marketplace.
15 This transaction is that type of
16 transaction, and so it -- there is a -- a
17 process by which we engage professionals.
18 We establish a selection committee, we sent
19 out RFPs to over 100 broker dealers, we
20 received 24 responses. The -- the selection
21 committee graded the proposals -- the questions
22 and the proposals, ranked the firms based on
23 the grading of those proposals.
24 The underwriting syndicate is comprised of
25 four national firms, two regional firms, and
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June 26, 2001
1 two minority firms. And the -- the -- this
2 recommendation reflects the result of that
3 process.
4 And I would like to personally recognize
5 and thank Kevin Stanfield on
6 Treasurer Gallagher's staff, who undertook the
7 arduous task of reading and grading the
8 proposals, and -- in addition to his day job,
9 and -- which is a significant undertaking. And
10 I'd like to thank him for that.
11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Thank you very much
12 for thanking him.
13 MR. WATKINS: And with that, I would move
14 approval of the underwriting firms,
15 Salomon Smith Barney as the book running senior
16 manager; Morgan Stanley, Dean Witter,
17 Paine Webber, and JPMorgan as the national
18 firms; Raymond -- William R. Hough and
19 A.G. Edwards as the regional firms; and
20 Apex Securities and M.R. Beal as the minority
21 firms for the underwriting syndicate for this
22 transaction.
23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
24 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
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June 26, 2001
1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 Item 5.
3 MR. WATKINS: Item 5, report of award on
4 the competitive sale of 50 million -- the first
5 50 million dollars of Florida Forever bonds.
6 Two items of note here, Governor.
7 The first is that this 50 million dollars
8 reflects changing the system by which we
9 implement the borrowing to be more efficient
10 and more cost-effective, borrowing solely based
11 on the need for the cash needs for closing land
12 transactions, as opposed to just 300 million a
13 year.
14 And also we received rating upgrades for
15 the Florida Forever program from all three
16 rating agencies, so we're now AA-, A1 and A+ by
17 the three rating agencies, because of some
18 statutory changes we made in -- to strengthen
19 the credit in connection with the implementing
20 legislation for Florida Forever.
21 So the bonds were sold at competitive sale
22 at a -- at a true interest rate of
23 4.81 percent.
24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And --
25 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Move the item.
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June 26, 2001
1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I might add that the
2 day rate that we sold those bonds is about
3 4.9072, which we came in 9 -- 9 basis points
4 below what basically is being offered and --
5 and bought that day. So it was really a good
6 sale.
7 MR. WATKINS: Right.
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Moved -- second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 The -- the point about this -- selling
12 these bonds in smaller increments is that the
13 Legislature won't have a --
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Target.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- large pool of mon-- a
16 target, if you will, to -- to use this money
17 for things that it was not intended for. And
18 we had a one-time problem that occurred this --
19 this budget, and it'll only be one time.
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: A couple one times.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is only one time.
22 This -- this will make it easier for -- to
23 assure that to happen.
24 MR. WATKINS: Thank you, Governor.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Ben.
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June 26, 2001
1 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
2 concluded.)
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 25
June 26, 2001
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Florida Department of Law
2 Enforcement.
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
4 minutes.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 It's Item 2.
10 But maybe you could describe a little bit,
11 Tim, of what you do.
12 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Governor. Be glad
13 to.
14 To our citizens in the audience, most
15 law enforcement, as you know, in our state is
16 local, as it should be. We have some 451 local
17 law enforcement agencies in Florida;
18 45,000 plus men and women that are certified
19 police officers. That's Sheriff's deputies,
20 like Deputy Wilmetz in the back there. Police
21 officers as well in our state.
22 Our job in the Department of
23 Law Enforcement -- by the way, I work for --
24 the Governor appoints me. I work for the
25 Governor and the Cabinet. They're my Board of
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June 26, 2001
1 Directors, as much the same way Ben outlined to
2 you in Bond Finance.
3 Our job in the Department of
4 Law Enforcement is to add value to the good job
5 that local law enforcement does in our state.
6 Sheriff Crowder here in Martin County,
7 Chief Morley here in -- in Stuart, they do a
8 great job. But oftentimes criminals go beyond
9 the City limit sign, or beyond the county sign
10 increasingly in our society today.
11 Both in the person, and more particularly
12 in -- using electronics now, they go worldwide,
13 international in all the crimes they commit.
14 So our job is to add value to the policing
15 mission across the state of Florida. We do
16 that in a variety of ways.
17 You saw today Agent Nygaard out of our
18 Fort Myers office getting recognized for the
19 good job that she continues to do. And she is
20 just one of many that I'm very, very proud of.
21 In our organization, we have 1800-plus
22 members in 23 offices across the
23 state of Florida. On an average year, we'll
24 do -- we'll investigate some 3,000 criminal --
25 criminal organizations, and we'll have
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June 26, 2001
1 3,000 ongoing criminal investigations at any
2 time.
3 The vast majority of those are
4 multijurisdictional, they're protracted in
5 nature, they're RICO organizations and
6 investigations as the Treasurer mentioned in
7 the resolution.
8 Not only do we add value to the good job
9 local law enforcement does in the traditional
10 sense of investigating, but we do it in the
11 forensic world as well.
12 Mrs. Suddeth up here getting recognized as
13 a distinguished DNA scientist is one of
14 300 that we have across the state in what is
15 the largest accredited forensic laboratory in
16 America, the Florida system, our Department of
17 Law Enforcement, the crime laboratory.
18 This year, we will handle over
19 100,000 pieces of evidence in criminal
20 proceedings across the state of Florida here.
21 Showing up as expert witnesses, providing
22 information to -- to local law enforcement and
23 others for crime scenes on a variety of --
24 of -- of exhibits -- of evidence.
25 We additionally provide an information
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June 26, 2001
1 network that's second to none in the country to
2 get information from, and provide information
3 to the local law enforcement and public safety
4 criminal justice community in the state of
5 Florida.
6 We have a -- a network of some
7 26,000 telecommunication devices in those
8 451 local law enforcement agencies. On an
9 average month, we'll handle in excess of
10 100 million message transactions, everything
11 from who's wanted, what property is stolen,
12 what's the criminal history of the individual
13 that's being stopped.
14 We serve as the control terminal in the
15 Department of Law Enforcement for all inquiries
16 into a variety of databases, not only in the
17 State of Florida, but up to the FBI and the
18 National Crime Information Center as well.
19 So I know none of you would ever be stopped
20 and pulled over on the road. But for some that
21 might, when the -- when the officer runs the
22 tag, the -- that information in a matter of 3
23 to 4 seconds goes up an interface line;
24 searches millions of records in not only the
25 Department of Law Enforcement, but our
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 29
June 26, 2001
1 Department of Highway Safety and Motor
2 Vehicles; goes up to the FBI NCIC files,
3 searches for any wants and warrants and
4 identifications on both the driver and the car
5 to see if it's stolen out of Idaho; to see if
6 the individual has a -- perhaps has a past
7 arrest or a domestic violence injunction in
8 California or Maine, or wherever it might be.
9 It's the lifeline of Florida's policing
10 effort. It gets information back to the local
11 law enforcement on the street who need it to do
12 their job.
13 We also establish minimum employment and --
14 and training standards as the Legislature gives
15 us to be a police officer in Florida, or to be
16 a correctional officer in Florida.
17 The Governor appoints members to a -- a
18 19-member Criminal Justice Standards and
19 Training Commission that establishes the
20 particulars to how it -- what it takes to be a
21 police officer.
22 In that small minority of cases where a
23 police officer fails to uphold the -- the
24 requirement to -- to do a good job, and fails
25 to -- they fail to abide by the rules, we also
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June 26, 2001
1 decertify them, that commission -- we take
2 their ticket away. They can no longer be a
3 police officer here in the state of Florida.
4 And we share that information should they
5 migrate to another place across America.
6 We do a -- we do a great job -- I might be
7 a little biased, but we became the first
8 criminal investigative agency back in 1990 to
9 be accredited by the Commission on the
10 Accreditation of Law Enforcement Agencies, the
11 first one in the United States.
12 And we've been -- been reaccredited, with
13 honors, three times since then. And I think
14 that's important to you and to our citizens, to
15 know that the way we do business is
16 fundamentally fair, and we go about it in a way
17 that will bring dignity to the Department, and
18 to our governance, and make sure that you get
19 the kind of public safety effort across this
20 state that you need.
21 I, too, would like to join the Governor in
22 thanking our legislators.
23 Representative Negron and
24 Representative Harrell here do a tremendous
25 job, as does Senator Pruitt out of this area.
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1 We appreciate their good help and support,
2 because a lot of the things we do, Governor,
3 would not be possible without that, and without
4 your strong leadership, and that of the
5 Cabinet, in supporting law enforcement in this
6 great state.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Tim.
8 MR. MOORE: I believe you moved Item 1 --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
10 MR. MOORE: -- already?
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
12 MR. MOORE: Item 2 is our quarterly
13 report -- quarterly performance report for the
14 third quarter of this fiscal year.
15 You've been provided with a -- with a
16 snapshot of -- of that report.
17 And to the audience here, every quarter,
18 we -- we report exactly on what we're doing,
19 and how we're spending the 240 million plus
20 dollars that's been entrusted to us, we give
21 quarterly reports to the Governor and the
22 Cabinet in our progress in that area.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion?
24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
25 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: So move.
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June 26, 2001
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 Item 3.
4 MR. MOORE: Governor, Item 3 is the final
5 stage in a series of administrative rule
6 adoptions that you authorized us to proceed on
7 back earlier this year.
8 The vast majority of these rules are --
9 rules are housekeeping in nature. They
10 incorporate some court decisions that's been
11 handed down; they incorporate some changes in
12 the law, both at the State level and the
13 Federal level.
14 The bulk of the rules deals with our
15 Criminal Justice Standards and Training
16 operation. We're moving from a traditional
17 lecture-based series of training our
18 police officers, into a scenario-based
19 environment where they actually participate
20 hands-on, not only in the high liability areas,
21 but across the spectrum of the 520-hour basic
22 recruit training to be a police officer.
23 These rules recognize that change in our
24 delivery mechanisms, and sets forth the
25 procedures that our training centers are to
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June 26, 2001
1 follow across the state.
2 I'd recommend approval to you of those
3 rules.
4 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: So move.
5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Governor.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Commish.
10 (The Florida Department of Law Enforcement
11 Agenda was concluded.)
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 34
June 26, 2001
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Government's favorite
2 department, the Department of Revenue.
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
4 minutes.
5 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
7 second on the minutes.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 Dr. Zingale, welcome.
10 DR. ZINGALE: Thank you.
11 Appreciate it.
12 We certainly view ourselves as the most
13 beloved agency in State government.
14 I'm sure you all do, too.
15 We have -- we're kind of an unusual
16 Department of Revenue in the country. We have
17 three primary programs. The traditional ones
18 are the ones you might expect.
19 We are the administer (sic) of the -- of
20 the State's 33 tax laws. We process over
21 28 billion dollars a year, 33 different taxes,
22 in the midst of a major transformation of our
23 computer system, with the primary goal of
24 making it easier for taxpayers to comply with
25 the law.
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June 26, 2001
1 I'll talk a little bit more about that
2 transition in a minute.
3 We also have, unlike most Department of
4 Revenues in the country, the child support
5 enforcement program. One point one million
6 children look to us to establish paternity,
7 establish support orders, and then go through
8 the process of enforcing those support orders,
9 and getting critically-needed dollars to these
10 children.
11 Pretty good statistics, have made some good
12 improvements over the last few years, have a
13 long way to go.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jim, what is the percentage
15 if -- just -- 1.1 million kids is a quarter of
16 all the kids in the state?
17 DR. ZINGALE: Pretty close. I think it's
18 something like 23 percent of all the children
19 in the state.
20 At this point in time, we do have
21 93 percent with paternity established, which is
22 a substantial increase over the last few years.
23 But if you do think about it, that is a --
24 a primary source of income to over 1.1 million
25 children in this state, and a -- a critical
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 36
June 26, 2001
1 obligation, particularly since welfare reform
2 has shifted a lot of that responsibility away
3 from government over to the family unit, we
4 provide critical aid and assistance to families
5 that need it, and -- and really a -- an
6 outstanding public program, if you think about
7 family responsibility, family rights, and what
8 it's going to take to make families
9 self-sufficient.
10 You wouldn't think a Department of Revenue
11 has those functions. But it's almost half of
12 the FTE of our staffing in the Department goes
13 to child support.
14 The third program's kind of small, but a
15 very important one to local government. We
16 provide the oversight of the property
17 appraisers' functions, the -- looking at the
18 real property in the state, and assessing
19 value. That's the second largest taxing source
20 in the state.
21 It is used to fund cities, counties,
22 special districts, and our critical funding
23 source from the local side, and the public
24 school system.
25 Three programs that right now are going
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 37
June 26, 2001
1 through probably as radical a transformation,
2 both in the last two years, and where we're
3 scheduled to go in the next three.
4 At the direction of the Governor and the
5 Cabinet, at the recommendations they make
6 annually in terms of funding and budget, we are
7 going through the most modernization of the
8 Department of Revenue in the country, if not
9 the world, on the revenue side.
10 We have partnered with SAP, an
11 international integrator of financial systems,
12 Deloitte Consulting.
13 We currently have in place the only fully
14 integrated tax computer system in the country
15 using today's technology, and we've done it
16 using primarily private sector software.
17 Over the next few years, we're going to
18 continue the progress that we've made this last
19 year-and-a-half of taking all 33 taxes and
20 integrating them into that system.
21 We have five minor taxes up last year, a
22 couple of months ago, we put a
23 billion-and-a-half corporate income tax up.
24 This October, we will be putting a local tax --
25 telecommunication tax used to be administered
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 38
June 26, 2001
1 independently by cities and counties. It's
2 going to be the first time ever a tax of that
3 sort is going to be administered at the State
4 level in this new computer system. It's going
5 to be up and running in October.
6 By the middle of next summer, we will have
7 sales, we will have unemployment compensation,
8 and 26 billion dollars is going to be flowing
9 through the most modern system in the world at
10 a revenue agency.
11 That transformation is going to allow us to
12 serve the public in substantially better ways
13 than we have in the past.
14 Right now, everyone that is registering for
15 one of our 33 taxes is being registered through
16 a one-stop registration system. Instead of
17 having to get registered in 33 taxes, it's
18 being registered in a one-stop system.
19 In terms of down the road, we expect to see
20 one-stop collecting. We already have in place
21 as we add these taxes, one-stop accounting.
22 What that's going to --
23 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
24 room.)
25 DR. ZINGALE: -- enable the world to do is
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 39
June 26, 2001
1 have just one transaction with the Department
2 of Revenue. And it's going to reduce the
3 number of times they have to go to the
4 Department of Revenue and ask for aid and
5 assistance or help in terms of interpreting
6 their tax laws.
7 We have already had a number of
8 companies -- some of the largest states come in
9 and observe this transformation. We hope it's
10 a model, not only for the country, but the
11 whole world in terms of doing it.
12 On the child support side, we've had the
13 program for six years. We were one of the
14 poorest performing child support programs in
15 the country when it came over.
16 I believe we were in the bottom five out of
17 the 50 states. We've moved up to 25th. That's
18 major progress in six years, but a long way to
19 go.
20 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
21 room.)
22 DR. ZINGALE: We've been making the
23 improvements a business process at a time,
24 trying to make substantial changes in the way
25 we do business from year-to-year.
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 40
June 26, 2001
1 Last year we had the largest growth rate in
2 the collection program, about a 14 percent
3 increase. This fiscal year that's ending in
4 June, we expect to either match that, or maybe
5 be about 13 percent increase. And that's all
6 the stable -- stable caseloads, certainly a
7 sign that performance is increasing.
8 To get to be the top five in the nation
9 though, we came to the Governor and Cabinet,
10 and with their assistance, we got a very
11 powerful set of recommendations through this
12 last session that will help us build a
13 foundation that we believe in the next
14 three years can get us to the top program in
15 the country.
16 We are one of three states right now again
17 in the information processing world, having
18 gained permission from the Federal government,
19 and funding through the Governor and Cabinet,
20 and from the Legislature, to build a brand new
21 modern child support computer system, something
22 that we hope we can bring up and running at a
23 substantially improved and quicker than we have
24 the tax one.
25 We expect to see major changes on the
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 41
June 26, 2001
1 computer side, even on the child support
2 program over the next three years.
3 We are also piloting with the State Court
4 Administrator, and with a local judicial
5 district over here in Volusia County an
6 administrative set of law changes that are
7 going to take the fairly cumbersome length of
8 time it takes to get a case to order, and
9 streamline that, we hope, from what is
10 currently nine to eleven months, to something
11 down to three to four months.
12 Again, our goal is to substantially provide
13 increases in service, increasing the
14 performance so that we can cut costs, raise
15 productivity, and improve services.
16 Our property tax program, again at the
17 direction of the Governor and Cabinet, has gone
18 through a major transformation this last year.
19 We have a very aggressive three-year plan to
20 enhance our capability to ensure that the
21 property appraisers are putting value on that
22 is both fair and equitable within a county, and
23 fair and equitable between counties.
24 Rolls are coming in right now, and roll
25 approval process will go between now and the
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 42
June 26, 2001
1 middle of August. From the rolls that we've
2 seen come in so far, I think the efforts of
3 property appraisers to do the best job they can
4 is certainly showing fruits.
5 (Commissioner Bronson exited the room.)
6 DR. ZINGALE: We're seeing substantially
7 improved roles as they are submitted right now.
8 So it's kind of a diverse program. We have
9 5,800 people. We've been asked by the Governor
10 and Cabinet to challenge our staff in terms of
11 trying to get to be some of the best run
12 programs in the country.
13 We think we're very close today in terms of
14 the tax. We have a ways to go in our child
15 support program. It's an exciting time in the
16 Department of Revenue, something that makes us
17 quite proud to be your servants.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Doctor.
19 Item 2.
20 DR. ZINGALE: Item 2.
21 Request approval for the Department of
22 Revenue to enter into contracts between the
23 Department of Revenue, and 16 certified public
24 accounting programs. These are $100,000
25 contracts a piece. There are 16 of them, seven
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 43
June 26, 2001
1 of them are minority vendors.
2 We have 15 other firms that are $25,000
3 contracts. We don't bring them in front of the
4 Cabinet because of the threshold. They're also
5 being approved at the same time. There's eight
6 minority vendors there.
7 This year's performance has increased from
8 28 percent minority participation last year to
9 45 percent. It's a ten-year program. It's
10 been a good partnership with the private CPA
11 firms.
12 Request approval of this one item.
13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Jim --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- you have a -- you
16 gave us a list of 26. Are the first 16 the
17 hundred, and the last group --
18 DR. ZINGALE: The first 16 --
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- the twenty--
20 DR. ZINGALE: -- are the ones listed in
21 front of you. They are 100,000. The threshold
22 brings them in front of you.
23 The other twenty-five -- the other 16 we
24 don't bring in front of you because they are
25 only $25,000 contracts.
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 44
June 26, 2001
1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Are the ones -- these
2 obvious were -- were graded. The ones from
3 sixteen to twenty-six, are -- did they end up
4 with 25, or that -- they aren't?
5 MR. HENRY: Seventeen to twenty-six. The
6 16 that approve here, versus the higher number
7 came in, yeah. We go through a weighting
8 system of -- it -- it primarily weights past
9 performance and -- and -- and ability to
10 perform these audits.
11 As you know, these audits are quite
12 complicated, and substantial training and
13 expertise.
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: My question is is I
15 have a list of 26 that came from your office.
16 DR. ZINGALE: Uh-hum.
17 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Sixteen are the ones
18 that we're approving today. Are the other ones
19 that rated lower, the ones that are getting
20 twenty-five, are they another list?
21 DR. ZINGALE: Another list.
22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Okay.
23 DR. ZINGALE: I'm pretty sure.
24 MS. ECHEVERRI: Another list.
25 DR. ZINGALE: Another list.
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June 26, 2001
1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 DR. ZINGALE: Thank you.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Jim.
6 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
7 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 46
June 26, 2001
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of Education.
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
6 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner, do you want
10 to talk about the Department of Education,
11 briefly.
12 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Yeah. Be delighted,
13 briefly.
14 Thank you, Governor.
15 Well, you know, briefly, we take care of
16 the children of Florida, and try to give them
17 an opportunity to live their dreams. And we
18 work with some wonderful people throughout the
19 State, a lot of hardworking public school
20 teachers, great superintendents, wonderful
21 School Board members.
22 My father happened to be on the School
23 Board when I was a kid. I know it's a tough
24 job. And two of my sisters happen to be public
25 school teachers in Pinellas County,
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 47
June 26, 2001
1 St. Petersburg, my home.
2 I have big shoes to fill, not only from the
3 gentleman who preceded me immediately,
4 Commissioner Gallagher; but also your hometown
5 hero, now Lieutenant Governor, former
6 Commissioner Brogan.
7 And it's an honor to be able to serve you,
8 it's an honor to be on the Cabinet with these
9 fine people.
10 And, Wayne, you can take it from there.
11 Thank you, Governor.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Commissioner.
13 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is 2001-2002 College
14 Reach-Out Program Funding. It's a
15 recommendation by the College Reach-Out Program
16 Advisory Council for using -- use of the
17 funding.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: You want to describe the
19 College Reach-Out Program?
20 MR. PIERSON: Yes, sir.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you want -- do you want
22 to -- can you describe it for everybody or --
23 MR. PIERSON: I can.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's a pretty good program.
25 I just wanted to brag about it.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 48
June 26, 2001
1 MR. PIERSON: The Florida Legislature
2 appropriated three million nine hundred and
3 ninety-nine thousand nine hundred and
4 eighty-eight dollars for the 2001-2002 College
5 Reach-Out Program to increase the number of low
6 income, educationally-disadvantaged students in
7 grades 6 through 12, who upon high school
8 graduation are admitted to, and successfully
9 complete postsecondary education.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: The idea is to reach down,
11 and to attract the aspiring kids in our school
12 districts or school systems throughout the
13 state that ordinarily may not be told that
14 the -- from the beg-- git-go that they're going
15 to be going to college.
16 And with a little bit of encouragement and
17 mentoring, in fact, they -- they do quite well
18 to get into college, and then they -- the
19 success rate is pretty extraordinary.
20 So this is one of many programs we now have
21 expanded to try to encourage all -- all
22 children a chance to -- to get higher education
23 degrees.
24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Governor, there's --
25 this -- we started in 1983, and this year,
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 49
June 26, 2001
1 2001--
2 (Commissioner Bronson entered the room.)
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: --2002 school year,
4 there's 8,649 students that are going to
5 benefit from this. So --
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Some of the
7 money goes to -- to universities and colleges
8 to help them recruit. So it's -- so it's based
9 locally to where the college out there is
10 recruiting the -- the youngsters. So it's --
11 it's an excellent program.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion for
13 approval of the --
14 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Motion.
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the recommended --
17 Okay. Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is a charter school
20 appeal which has been withdrawn at the request
21 of the applicant.
22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to withdraw.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
24 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 50
June 26, 2001
1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. PIERSON: Item 4 is --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Withdrawn --
4 MR. PIERSON: -- an amendment --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- excuse me.
6 MR. PIERSON: -- to the Comm--
7 Item 4 is an amendment to the Community
8 College Rule, 6A-14.072, Financial Records and
9 Reports.
10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
11 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Motion.
12 Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is a State University
16 System Rule, 6C-7.001, Tuition Fee Schedule and
17 Percentage of Costs. This is the tuition
18 increases adopted by the 2001 Legislature.
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 5.
20 MR. PIERSON: Signed by the Governor.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know.
22 There's a motion.
23 I guess I have to vote for it. I signed
24 the budget.
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Do you need a second?
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June 26, 2001
1 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is a State University
5 Rule, 6C-7.003, Special Fees, Fines, and
6 Penalties.
7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
8 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MR. PIERSON: Item 7 is a School for the
12 Deaf and Blind, Rule 6D-16.002, Human Resource
13 Management and Development.
14 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Motion.
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to approve as
16 amended.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
18 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
22 concluded.)
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24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEP SITING BOARD 52
June 26, 2001
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Siting Board.
2 MR. STRUHS: Good morning.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary Struhs.
4 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
5 We're -- we're here on -- for the one item
6 on the Siting Board agenda.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you want to describe
8 what the Siting Board is?
9 MR. STRUHS: I'd be happy to. And I was
10 watching in the library next door, so I know
11 that the drill is to turn around here. I'll do
12 that -- follow the microphone.
13 MR. STRUHS: The Siting Board is a --
14 another function served by the members of the
15 Cabinet. As you might suspect, when you build
16 a power plant in the state of Florida, there
17 are a variety of agencies, both local and
18 State, that have a role in reviewing whether or
19 not the plant is needed -- the power that
20 they're going to generate is needed, whether
21 they picked an appropriate spot, whether the
22 water is available, whether it will meet clean
23 air standards, whether it will protect
24 wildlife, the list goes on and on.
25 Because it is a very complicated effort to
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June 26, 2001
1 approve one of these, the way they've organized
2 it here in the state of Florida is all the
3 agencies do their respective reviews to make
4 sure that the plant will meet all of those
5 conditions.
6 And in the final analysis, it's all bundled
7 together, and it's brought to the Cabinet for a
8 final review to make sure that all the agencies
9 have, indeed, checked off, and all those
10 missions have been met. And, indeed, the item
11 we have on the agenda today does precisely
12 that.
13 And, indeed, it is -- Item Number 1 is the
14 Calpine Construction Finance Company, Limited
15 Partnership, the Osprey Energy Center final
16 order.
17 I would point out that this is a state of
18 the art, very clean, very modern, very
19 efficient plant. It is using combined cycle
20 gas turbine technology.
21 And all of the agencies who have reviewed
22 this, have signed off the gold star of
23 approval. And we recommend approval.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, I
25 just have -- ask a question just for my -- for
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DEP SITING BOARD 54
June 26, 2001
1 the audience.
2 Can you explain the role of the
3 Public Service Commission and what their role
4 is here --
5 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- and then
7 what our role is limited to up here.
8 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
9 The Public Service Commission does the
10 needs analysis. They determine based on their
11 projections for future energy demand and
12 existing supply whether or not the supply being
13 proposed here is actually going to be utilized,
14 is actually going to be needed.
15 And as you know, they have a planning
16 cushion where they always like to try to keep a
17 20 percent reserve margin for energy security
18 and reliability.
19 They have determined, using their own
20 economic analysis, that, indeed, this plant
21 is -- is needed, and that the demand is there.
22 It's going to be a -- I believe a
23 527 megawatt plant.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right.
25 And now, where is this energy going to go?
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1 Is it going to stay in the state of Florida, or
2 is it going to go outside the state of Florida?
3 MR. STRUHS: All of this energy will stay
4 inside the state of Florida.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. What
6 percentage of the energy has already been
7 basically contracted for, and by who?
8 MR. STRUHS: At least half of it I believe
9 has already been contracted with
10 Seminole Electric. And Seminole Electric also
11 has a option to buy the full amount of
12 electricity generated from this plant, which
13 they may, indeed, do.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think that
15 they're -- they contracted for about two-thirds
16 of it, is that what it is? And then the other
17 third can go anywhere, including outside the
18 state of Florida.
19 MR. STRUHS: Right.
20 It's -- it's -- it's highly unlikely that
21 any power is ever exported out of Florida. We
22 are obviously a net importer of -- of electric
23 power.
24 And given the location of this plant in
25 particular, it's -- it's all but guaranteed
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1 that this power serves Florida residents.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And also
3 by -- after that five-year period, this -- this
4 particular power company can sell its power
5 anywhere, because Seminole only has -- if
6 Seminole chooses not to renew the five-year
7 contract, or if this company chooses not to
8 sell them the power, that they can actually,
9 in essence, be a merchant plant, and sell it
10 throughout the -- this country.
11 MR. STRUHS: Well, the --
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's not
13 limited to only Florida -- you're -- what
14 you're saying is that we -- we do, of course,
15 bring in energy. But in five years, there's a
16 good chance that, depending upon how much money
17 someone wants to pay for the energy -- all this
18 energy can go outside the state of Florida.
19 MR. STRUHS: Well, I think it -- it's hard
20 to speculate what it might look like in
21 five years. As you know, as a state, we are
22 revisiting some of our laws and regulations as
23 they relate to power plants.
24 It has been determined by the
25 Public Service Commission that this plant does
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1 meet the -- what -- what you probably know as
2 the Duke Power test, that it meets that -- that
3 standard.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And --
5 MR. STRUHS: And it --
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- and we
7 cannot -- we cannot say yes or no. Once the
8 PSC says it meets the Duke standard, as I
9 understand it, we're bound by that
10 particular --
11 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- ruling.
13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, it's -- it's
14 very expensive to move power from the middle of
15 the state to some state two states by, because
16 you've got a tremendous loss of -- of power in
17 that long transmission. So --
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, energy
19 is the number one problem, I think, facing this
20 country. And this is not a bad idea.
21 But I just wanted -- want people to know
22 that in the past, whenever we build a
23 power plant, 100 percent of that particular
24 power is already contracted for, and cannot go
25 anywhere else.
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1 (Secretary Harris exited the room.)
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: This is the
3 first time we're building a plant whereby the
4 people that own the plant can be able to -- to
5 send their power somewhere else. Because we --
6 we've not done this before.
7 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Governor --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
9 COMMISSIONER CRIST: -- David -- I mean,
10 Secretary. You probably mentioned this, and I
11 may have missed it.
12 Did you say this -- what type of plant
13 this'll be? It's gas?
14 MR. STRUHS: This is a gas turbine. But it
15 is really state of the art in terms of the
16 efficiencies that they can derive from it.
17 What they do with a combined cycle plant is
18 they -- they actually get twice the energy out
19 of it. They burn the gas -- the combustion
20 spins the turbine.
21 But then what they do is they capture the
22 waste heat with the boiler, create steam, and
23 the steam runs the second turbine. So you're
24 really getting high efficiency energy
25 production from the plant, which is good
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1 obviously from not just an economic
2 perspective, but -- but very beneficial from an
3 environmental point of view as well.
4 It's -- it's really the kind of plant
5 that -- well, this is my personal opinion --
6 but the plant -- the kind of plant that we
7 probably need to see more of in -- in the state
8 of Florida in the future.
9 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Thank you.
10 Thank you.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is going to be a
12 subject that will consume a lot of the
13 policymaking for the State over the next two or
14 three years.
15 We -- General Butterworth is right that we
16 have a -- this is one of the areas where being
17 first probably wasn't -- it was -- was a good
18 idea not to be first.
19 We have a regulated energy market here
20 where we have a requirement, and the ratepayers
21 pay for it. We -- the people that pay the
22 electricity bills across the state pay for it,
23 but -- but we have 120 percent reserve margin
24 over peak capacity.
25 And so when it starts getting 90 degrees,
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1 and it stays up there, we have the capacity in
2 place to avoid the -- I was in California
3 yesterday, and half the newspaper is about the
4 potential blackouts or brownouts, and they --
5 they actually plan for them now as a -- as a --
6 just a way of life.
7 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: And it's going to be that
9 way for at least two years in California. It's
10 going to have a severe impact on their economy.
11 So we -- we -- in fact, we have two things
12 going for us: One, we are -- we have this
13 reserve requirement that -- that will be
14 provided -- a cushion for us as we go forward
15 to develop new strategies to increase capacity.
16 Secondly, we're not on the western grid.
17 So the possibility of wholesale -- wholesalers
18 selling energy that does exist in the west, and
19 does create dislocations amongst different
20 states out there and communities, we're not on
21 their grid system, which is helpful to us.
22 But on the other hand, we've got serious
23 energy problems. And we have -- we have
24 inadequate transmission lines, which is a
25 serious problem for our state.
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1 We're a peninsula, so we have to import
2 some of our energy. And -- and we don't have
3 the capacity to expand, and it's hard to site
4 transmission lines, I imagine, and it's -- it's
5 a -- certainly a challenge.
6 And, secondly, we -- we want to grow. We
7 have a growing economy, and -- and the new
8 economy particularly consumes more energy.
9 So we have to come up with a thoughtful way
10 of expanding capacity to avoid the
11 California-like situation at the most
12 cost-effective and environmentally sensitive
13 basis.
14 And I think our laws are -- are a little
15 inadequate to --
16 (Commissioner Crist exited the room.)
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- to deal with this,
18 because of what you said, General, about the
19 Cabinet, and the -- the Public Service
20 Commission, the Legislature have shared
21 responsibilities here, and there's not quite a
22 shared vision.
23 So we're going to work hard on it the next
24 two years.
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Governor, when you
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1 were out in California, were you recruiting
2 those businesses that didn't have enough
3 electricity to operate to come to Florida where
4 we could --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I did tell them that
6 I appreciated the fact that not many people
7 were talking about hanging chads anymore, they
8 were talking about California electric--
9 electricity problems, and we appreciated that.
10 (Applause.)
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: We were happy to be off the
12 front page in that regard.
13 And it was subtle, the message, but, yeah,
14 of course we were.
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the item.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
17 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 (The Department of Environmental Protection
21 Siting Board Agenda was concluded.)
22 * * *
23
24
25
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT COX, do hereby certify
8 that the foregoing proceedings were taken before me
9 at the time and place therein designated; that my
10 shorthand notes were thereafter translated; and the
11 foregoing pages numbered 1 through 62 are a true and
12 correct record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 9TH day of JULY, 2001.
18
19
20
21
22
23
LAURIE L. GILBERT COX, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
24 100 Salem Court
Tallahassee, Florida 32301
25 850/878-2221
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION SITING BOARD
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
VOLUME II
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Martin County Administration
Building, 2401 Southeast Monterey Road, County
Commission Chambers, Stuart, Florida, on Tuesday,
June 26, 2001, commencing at approximately 9:13 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT COX
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
65
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
CHARLES H. BRONSON
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
TOM GALLAGHER
Treasurer
CHARLIE CRIST
Commissioner of Education
* * *
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June 26, 2001
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
(Presented by David B. Struhs,
Secretary)
1 Approved 67
Substitute 2 Approved 266
Substitute 3 Withdrawn 71
Substitute 4 Approved 166
5 Approved 115
6 Approved 115
7 Approved 115
8 Approved 116
9 Approved 146
Substitute 10 Deferred 148
11 Approved 148
12 Approved 149
Substitute 13 Approved 158
14 Withdrawn 160
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 267
* * *
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees.
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
4 minutes.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Please.
9 This is perhaps the most important thing
10 that the Cabinet does as a collegial body, and
11 it's important I think for everybody to
12 understand.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Everybody's
14 leaving.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: It must have been the
16 utility guys.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It was those
18 $1,000 suits --
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Thousand dollar
20 suits.
21 MR. STRUHS: The Department of
22 Environmental Protection serves as staff to the
23 Cabinet on the Siting Board issues, siting
24 power plants, as you -- as you just witnessed.
25 We're probably best known for our role as
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1 regulators where we, through law and
2 regulation, ensure clean and -- and -- and safe
3 water supplies; we provide for the treatment of
4 wastewater; the management of solid and
5 hazardous waste; and clean air controls for --
6 for clean air in Florida.
7 There is another part of DEP, however, that
8 is the Division of State Lands. And in that
9 capacity, we serve as staff to the Cabinet in
10 their role as Trustees for -- for public lands.
11 And that's about what you're going to see here
12 today.
13 There are a variety of agencies around the
14 State of Florida that have responsibility for
15 acquiring and restoring and conserving natural
16 areas.
17 The five water management districts; our
18 own State Park system, which as you know is
19 voted the best State Park system in America;
20 the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission;
21 as well as the Communities Trust Program, which
22 provides resources to local communities for --
23 for local projects.
24 And we've got a variety of -- of those
25 types of issues here today.
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1 You will also, if you stay to the very end,
2 see a discussion over their role -- the
3 Cabinet's role as Trustees for submerged lands,
4 State lands that are underwater in balancing
5 the interests -- the riparian interests as to
6 the access and utilization of those lands.
7 I would like to point out, if I could,
8 just -- it's a real treat for me to be in
9 Stuart, because the -- about a mile from here
10 is the Stuart wastewater treatment plant,
11 which -- which is --
12 (Commissioner Crist entered the room.)
13 MR. STRUHS: -- a big deal to us,
14 because --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: I was just going to say,
16 I'm not sure Stuart would be bragging about
17 their -- as --
18 MR. STRUHS: Well --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- shellfish capital of the
20 world, that they don't have a -- they don't
21 give you a sewage treatment plant, they give
22 you --
23 MR. STRUHS: Well -- and --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: But in your line of work, I
25 know it's important.
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1 MR. STRUHS: It's important. And it's
2 actually something to celebrate, because up
3 until a few years ago, the wastewater treatment
4 plant here in Stuart was -- was, shall we say,
5 inadequate. It was -- it was lacking. It
6 didn't have the very best performance.
7 And we have been working with the City of
8 Stuart, and they have done an exceptionally
9 good job.
10 And, indeed, less than a year ago, that
11 wastewater treatment plant just a mile from
12 here was awarded the best in its class in the
13 entire state of Florida.
14 So the -- the City of Stuart has done a
15 remarkable job turning that plant around, and
16 it is now considered the best plant of its size
17 anywhere in the state.
18 And it's -- it's a great place.
19 (Applause.)
20 MR. STRUHS: I would add that David Peters
21 and Jason Vogel and Sam Amerson, who operate
22 that plant, have done an exceptionally good
23 job.
24 So with that, I'd like to suggest that Item
25 Number 2 be pushed to the end of the agenda.
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1 That may take a bit more time than some of the
2 others, and we can simply go through the rest
3 of these items a bit more quickly.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
5 MR. STRUHS: Substitute Item 3, we're
6 seeking to withdraw that item.
7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Move to withdraw 3.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion to withdraw, and a
9 second.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MR. STRUHS: Item 4, we're seeking your
12 approval for a Settlement Agreement. It's a
13 quitclaim deed.
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: What is --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Let me ask you a
18 quick question.
19 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Is there a -- are
21 there any strings on this? The settlement is
22 unavoidable. The --
23 MR. STRUHS: Yes, there are. This is an
24 interesting situation, because there is a
25 dispute over who owns the --
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I understand --
2 MR. STRUHS: -- land.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- that.
4 MR. STRUHS: And as part of the settlement
5 to try to resolve those issues, that would be
6 the -- the State's interests, and two different
7 private property interests.
8 As part of reaching a proposed Settlement
9 Agreement, we were forced to link the -- some
10 regulatory permitting issues to -- to the --
11 which is something that ordinarily, as you know
12 very well, General, we -- we prefer not to do.
13 But --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I know we prefer not
15 to do it, and when we have done it, it
16 generally has turned around and bit us quite
17 well.
18 MR. STRUHS: It has.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: This is certainly
20 not a good way of doing business.
21 MR. STRUHS: No. And it's not the way
22 we prefer doing it either.
23 But if -- if we want to achieve this
24 settlement, which we believe is probably in the
25 best long-term interest of the State, and the
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1 other interests, this is at this point where we
2 are in those negotiations.
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, I have to agree
4 with General Milligan, that this is not good
5 public policy to link these things. We had
6 some other past problems with this.
7 If, in fact, they're unable to get the
8 permit to build the additional docks --
9 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- and then this
11 agreement falls apart, can we still go back and
12 do the other half of it?
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You mean in
14 court? It'll be entered by a judge.
15 MR. STRUHS: Right.
16 We would litigate it. We would litigate
17 the -- the --
18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Which might not be a
19 pretty sight.
20 MR. STRUHS: There are some speakers on
21 this issue who would like to obviously present
22 to you why they believe this settlement, which
23 is admittedly out of the ordinary in terms of
24 linking regulatory proprietary interests -- why
25 in their perspective it is a -- is a good
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1 settlement.
2 I would tell you, having studied this in
3 some detail, while it is an extraordinary item
4 in that sense, it -- it is at the point in the
5 negotiations the best I think that we're going
6 to do.
7 And I would also point out that it's --
8 it's a bit difficult to go into a lot of detail
9 here --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I understand.
11 MR. STRUHS: -- in the event that you not
12 approve it, and we'd have to go into
13 litigation. We need to be prepared for that.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I just have
15 one question --
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Question.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- if I can,
18 Governor --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Please.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- before we
21 started.
22 David, as you know, none of us like linkage
23 on this.
24 But is anybody's rights compromised? Are
25 we closing a door to anybody from coming in and
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1 objecting for us to go through the -- the
2 entire process as always?
3 I mean, is it -- have we -- have we closed
4 the door on anybody on this one?
5 MR. STRUHS: No, sir.
6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And this does not set
7 a precedent, correct?
8 MR. STRUHS: No.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No, not one we
10 haven't already set.
11 MR. STRUHS: I think what --
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Secretary Struhs.
13 MR. STRUHS: I think -- I think it would be
14 good as -- as an exception to approving the
15 rule.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: I guess my -- our
17 concern obviously is the linkage. Do -- what
18 kind of independence do we really have, and is
19 there a conflict of interest?
20 And when we were actually looking at this
21 permit, how are we going to be able to be
22 independent, and -- and review this permit with
23 integrity from a government standpoint when
24 it's already linked and in order to --
25 MR. STRUHS: I -- I appreciate your
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1 question very much.
2 What I can assure you is that the
3 regulatory permit, which would be the new pier,
4 we reviewed that divorced from consideration of
5 the settlement of the proprietary case because
6 we wanted to be able to say with complete
7 confidence and complete candor that even if
8 there was not a proprietary interest to be
9 resolved, we were looking at the pier permit
10 separately, dealing with it in the normal
11 course, that it would be something that we
12 would, in fact, permit, and we would be
13 permitting as proposed.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: Then why do we have to
15 have --
16 MR. STRUHS: Which --
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- the linkage.
18 MR. STRUHS: -- which is exactly the next
19 logical question, which is the applicant.
20 The applicant for the permit, who could
21 probably speak to this better than I, I think
22 it's fair to say, does not have the same
23 confidence --
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: Is there something
25 that --
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1 MR. STRUHS: -- that --
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- we as a Cabinet can
3 do in terms of rulemaking to preclude this from
4 ever happening?
5 You aren't put in the position in terms of
6 negotiating to create this linkage, even
7 though, in all candor, you can say there was an
8 independence.
9 But is there something we can do as a
10 Cabinet that would preclude this happening in
11 the future so that we actually can take the --
12 we actually preclude that kind of authority
13 being granted, you know, so that you can say,
14 we -- we can't -- we can't do that?
15 MR. STRUHS: I suppose you could do it
16 through rule, or -- or you could probably just
17 do it through custom, and just vote no.
18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Then you get to take
19 them one --
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: It --
21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- at a time --
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just -- but --
23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Even --
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: It just puts everybody
25 in the position in this type of situation --
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1 MR. STRUHS: Right.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- we would always be
3 held --
4 MR. STRUHS: Right.
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- hostage to concur.
6 MR. STRUHS: It --
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: And I just thought if we
8 had rulemaking up-front, that we knew we
9 couldn't, and if you were assured based on
10 science and everything else --
11 MR. STRUHS: Right.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- that this permit
13 would -- would proceed, you could be more
14 forceful in assuring them as well, that there
15 was nothing that would -- would preclude that.
16 I just don't like us, you know -- our being
17 in a position that we have to approve something
18 when there seems to be an apparent conflict
19 up front.
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, even -- even if
21 you had a rule, if five of us agreed, you know,
22 then it would -- it would change that rule.
23 So --
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: But if we had a rule, we
25 wouldn't be in a position to have to agree.
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1 Because of those negotiations up front, the
2 Secretary could say, I'm sorry, we don't have
3 the ability to be able to construct that
4 linkage, which -- which would look badly.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: But he could have done that
6 anyway.
7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: He could say, I don't
8 think --
9 MR. STRUHS: Believe me, we tried.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yeah. I mean, but you
11 couldn't say, we don't have the authority to do
12 it.
13 MR. STRUHS: That's right.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: I mean, you couldn't say
15 that. If you said we don't have the authority
16 to do it, then -- then you would have been --
17 MR. STRUHS: We -- we --
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- in a stronger
19 negotiating position.
20 MR. STRUHS: -- we said -- we said no to
21 this more than once, and -- and obviously did
22 not have the ability to point to a rule that
23 specifically prohibited it.
24 And that's why it comes to you with this --
25 with this linkage. Now, the best assurance I
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1 can provide you in -- is --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's hear from the
3 speakers.
4 MR. STRUHS: We can do that.
5 Let me call them up --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: If we could ask them to
7 speak in 3 minutes or less, that'd be
8 wonderful.
9 MR. STRUHS: All right. We've got
10 Mr. Norwood Gay, who's the attorney for
11 Fisherman's Wharf; and Mr. Ross McVoy, who is
12 the attorney for Harbor Lights Mobile Home Park
13 residents.
14 And also Mr. Phil Perry.
15 MR. McVOY: Good morning.
16 Good morning.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
18 MR. McVOY: Governor, good morning, members
19 of the Cabinet.
20 My name is Ross McVoy. I practice law with
21 the Tallahassee office of Akerman Senterfitt.
22 And I'm here on behalf of the Harbor Lights
23 Cooperative, which is the mobile home park
24 which is adjacent to the property of the
25 applicant.
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1 You raise a very good point about tying the
2 regulatory issues to the State lands issue.
3 Reading the agreement and speaking to the
4 agreement, it would appear that the staff of
5 DEP believes that litigation over the ownership
6 of these submerged lands would be an
7 interesting case. They refer to it as
8 tentative in their agenda item.
9 I don't want to speak to that, don't want
10 to let all the cats out of the bag. But let's
11 just assume that for -- for the sake of this
12 discussion.
13 Our cooperative appreciates the Department
14 trying to carve out a beachhead for us in that
15 agreement where our lands would -- our
16 submerged lands would remain in State
17 ownership.
18 Frankly, I'm not sure whether they'd stay
19 as sovereignty lands, or just lands owned by
20 the State. But that's a legal distinction that
21 I don't think we need to address here.
22 We are, however, opposed to the dock
23 configuration, and would remain opposed to
24 that. And if we could not resolve the issue,
25 we would challenge it, both the County,
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1 Federal, and State.
2 For us, we have the view, we have a
3 beautiful open embayment, and the dock
4 represents an aquatic parking lot as far as
5 we're concerned.
6 We have had discussions with the applicant
7 over potential modifications. But there is yet
8 no offer on the table, and these discussions
9 are preliminary.
10 It is of concern to us, and in the future,
11 I suggest, and there is some difference of
12 opinion on this, as you notice in the
13 agreement -- or in the agenda item, this
14 permit's ready to issue.
15 We would -- our principals do not
16 understand the gravity of this situation until
17 the -- a Federal notice came out. So our
18 rights or options are going to be to try and
19 negotiate something or challenge it.
20 Lastly, our law firm was inserted into this
21 controversy on rather short notice. And we
22 appreciate the efforts of David Thulman,
23 DEP Counsel, who made his records available to
24 us on the ownership issue, and that included
25 this weekend.
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1 So that's all I have to say, and I think
2 that's 3 minutes.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. Commissioner.
4 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Thank you, Governor.
5 I -- I did have a question.
6 Since you are representing the mobile home
7 community there, is it their contention that
8 their riparian rights are being somehow
9 lessened by --
10 MR. McVOY: Their rights -- their rights to
11 a view, adequate navigation, we haven't had a
12 chance to look at all the environmental issues.
13 But you have a high concentrate --tration of
14 watercraft using, you know, gasoline and --
15 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Well, I --
16 MR. McVOY: -- all the attendant --
17 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: They're not being --
18 MR. McVOY: That's not a riparian issue.
19 It --
20 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Yeah. That's -- I
21 want --
22 MR. McVOY: -- is the view --
23 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: -- to make sure I'm
24 getting this right on the riparian rights.
25 They're not being denied access to the
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1 water, if this goes through; is that correct?
2 They still have the ability to have access
3 to the same --
4 MR. McVOY: Yes.
5 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: -- same water.
6 MR. McVOY: Out to the channel.
7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Out to the channel.
8 Okay. So basically, other than the
9 esthetic view of the water, their -- their
10 riparian rights to utilize that water by
11 ownership of that land is not being deterred,
12 is that correct, in any way?
13 MR. McVOY: I think their ability to use
14 the -- the water body is being impaired to the
15 extent that, you know, you're going to put this
16 dock in. But --
17 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: But now -- wait a
18 minute. Tell me --
19 MR. McVOY: -- when you --
20 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: -- how that -- how
21 that's going to happen. How can they not
22 use --
23 MR. McVOY: The dock --
24 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: -- the water --
25 MR. McVOY: -- the dock would occupy most
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1 of this embankment.
2 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: So they can't
3 launch -- launch a boat from their proper--
4 from that area.
5 MR. McVOY: They can launch a boat and get
6 out the long way, yes, sir.
7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Okay.
8 MR. McVOY: But let me answer one other
9 question that you raised.
10 On the issue of the view, some of these
11 folks don't have a dock, and they don't care
12 about the docks. They block the view.
13 And even though this is a mobile home park,
14 Mr. Grove, the -- the representative, has a
15 trailer on a lot that fronts on the water. And
16 he says, he won't part for that for under a
17 quarter of a million dollars.
18 So the land that -- that this property is
19 on is extremely valuable, and the view is one
20 reason. And that's a riparian right.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Secretary.
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: I had a question.
24 It was my understanding that the owners
25 were -- were working with the mobile home
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1 owners, hoping to come to some mutual
2 agreement. Presently they have docks, and --
3 and those would fall under the owner's parcel
4 as well.
5 Can you report on the progress that -- that
6 has been made to date?
7 MR. McVOY: We spoke late yesterday
8 afternoon, we spoke again this morning, we've
9 discussed other alternatives, other designs,
10 and we will do our best to try and resolve
11 this.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Crist.
13 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Thanks. I have a
14 question.
15 You mentioned about the value of the
16 property. You said you wouldn't part with it
17 for less than a quarter of a million dollars?
18 MR. McVOY: That's what Mr. Groves says,
19 yes, sir.
20 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Is there a buyer?
21 MR. McVOY: Not me.
22 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Okay. Well, I think
23 the value probably is more determined by the
24 buyer than what the seller wants to sell it
25 for.
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1 MR. McVOY: I'm told these lots -- this
2 property is very valuable. The trailers on the
3 property obviously, you know, unless somebody's
4 got gold bars stuck in their refrigerator, are
5 not valuable. But the property's very
6 valuable.
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: As to the agreement with
8 the owners, are you optimistic that something
9 will -- that there's progress? I mean, I'd
10 just like to know the status of that before --
11 we're trying to make a decision.
12 MR. McVOY: I don't know yet. This is an
13 unfortunate time, because there's 150 families
14 out there, and only 30 are there right now.
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: How many actually have
16 views of the water, of the hundred and --
17 MR. McVOY: I don't know the number. But
18 it obviously is not the whole 150. There's
19 a -- you know, strip --
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Right.
21 Well, I think there's only -- there's
22 only -- the only ones that are actually
23 affected are those ones who actually own the
24 water.
25 MR. McVOY: I'm not sure of that,
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1 Madam Secretary. I know you're -- you probably
2 know this area pretty well. But I don't know
3 the answer to that.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Where -- who else is
5 speaking?
6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Incidentally --
7 MR. STRUHS: There's been a --
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- it's my under--
9 MR. STRUHS: Excuse me, Secretary.
10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Yeah.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. Treasurer.
12 TREASURER GALLAGHER: It's my
13 understanding --
14 MR. STRUHS: There's been a change. Mr. --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Hang on a second, David.
16 MR. STRUHS: I'm sorry.
17 TREASURER GALLAGHER: It's my understanding
18 that there was a waterfront lot sold within the
19 last six months for 250,000, 40 -- 40-foot wide
20 lot. So these are -- I guess --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm surprised the State of
22 Florida didn't buy it, General.
23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: No. No, we wouldn't
24 look at it for less than 400,000, Governor, the
25 way we operate.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: That -- that's an inside
2 joke that we have.
3 They'll know about that later in one
4 other -- in another agenda item coming up.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You know, I might
6 quickly comment, Governor.
7 We're having this discussion over the
8 permitting process, which is exactly the
9 problem of linking the approval of the
10 submerged lands, and -- and this -- and
11 approval of this permit.
12 And I think it is bad public policy. We've
13 made the mistake before. And -- at least one
14 time that I recall, and have suffered the
15 consequences.
16 And I'm not sure it's a good idea to link
17 these two.
18 I --
19 We have additional speakers, so I'll shut
20 up for a minute.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Maybe we'll have a chance
22 to reconvene here in a second.
23 MR. STRUHS: General Milligan, I -- on
24 that -- on that point actually, Mr. Gay and
25 Mr. Perry have -- have both decided they -- not
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1 to speak. So you've heard from the one speaker
2 who --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh.
4 MR. STRUHS: -- wishes to address the
5 issue.
6 But what I can offer you, though, if -- if
7 you are interested, is the opportunity to speak
8 to the attorney who represented this -- in
9 these negotiations.
10 I, for the record, quite agree that we
11 don't like this linkage, but reached the point
12 where it was the only way we felt we could
13 provide the protection to the water for the
14 mobile home park for the other private
15 interests, and also protect the State's
16 interests.
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: Secretary Struhs, I
18 don't -- I don't want to belabor the point if
19 it's not the will of the Cabinet, but it --
20 would it -- would it be possible for you to
21 come back to us with a rule that you might
22 promulgate so it would give you stronger
23 negotiating power?
24 Of course, as Commissioner Gallagher says,
25 we could always waive the rules if you came
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1 back to us with extraordinary circumstances. I
2 just want to give you all the ability to be
3 able to negotiate the most appropriate
4 settlements.
5 And this is just an untenable position that
6 we find ourselves in with regard to this
7 linkage, and -- and the apparent conflict.
8 MR. STRUHS: I appreciate it.
9 I can -- I can imagine four different ways
10 to cure the problem. One is the obvious one,
11 which is to simply vote no. And -- and then --
12 and do that on a case-by-case basis, because of
13 the linkage.
14 The other would be for the Board of
15 Trustees to adopt a rule that specifically says
16 you won't consider agenda items that have that
17 kind of linkage.
18 The third approach would be for the
19 Department, through our own rulemaking
20 capacity, develop a rule that would prohibit
21 that kind of linkage specifically.
22 And the fourth would perhaps be, if we were
23 in a negotiation situation, and the parties
24 were looking for that kind of linkage, that we
25 could not agree to that as part of a -- we
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1 would not be allowed to put that on the table
2 for negotiation unless we first got your
3 approval.
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: Well, I think you had a
5 Department rule again, on that -- on Number 3,
6 you could always come back to the Cabinet,
7 you know, see if we could --
8 MR. STRUHS: For a waiver.
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- waive the -- waive
10 the rule so you wouldn't preclude us from ever
11 doing that --
12 MR. STRUHS: Right.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- categorically. But I
14 just -- I don't like being in this position.
15 MR. STRUHS: None -- none of us do. But
16 I think those are probably the four cures, and
17 probably the fourth one is the one that would
18 give you the most flexibility --
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: It doesn't help us with
20 today though.
21 MR. STRUHS: It doesn't help --
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: But I do --
23 MR. STRUHS: -- us --
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- think -- I would like
25 to look to the future --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: General.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- after we reconcile
3 this issue.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: General Butterworth?
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I speak to
6 the -- I think it speaks volumes, Governor,
7 that the attorney for the applicant chooses not
8 to speak. And I think I was going to go one
9 way in this case, and because of his inaction,
10 I'm going to go the other way.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you want him to speak
12 now?
13 He'd be willing to talk now.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well,
15 I think -- no, I think he should be talking
16 afterwards to the mobile home owners, and to
17 the State, and maybe we could work this thing
18 out.
19 MR. STRUHS: Does anybody wish to speak?
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I think you were
21 compelling, General.
22 MR. GAY: Yes. I'm Norwood Gay on behalf
23 of the applicant.
24 And, General, I can assure you that we are
25 discussing the dock configurations in all good
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1 faith with the mobile home folks.
2 We have been their neighbors at this site
3 for a number of years. The dock permit that
4 the DEP has in front of it now is considerably
5 longer than the configurations that we are now
6 proposing.
7 Just to put it into some perspective, the
8 waterfront side that our proposed docks will be
9 facing of the mobile home park is approximately
10 1260 feet in length. Our proposed dock will
11 take up about 480 feet of that in -- in our --
12 perhaps our best alternative proposal.
13 So the balance of the mobile home park
14 docks and mobile homes themselves will be free
15 of any view directly out from their properties
16 onto the waters of Hatchet Creek.
17 Now, bear in mind that all of the views
18 that the mobile home park owners will have will
19 be views of the boats at our dock past the
20 boats moored at their dock. Because every one
21 of these docks has boat slips in front of it.
22 That's what adds to the value.
23 Whether it is a quarter of a million or not
24 is a matter of speculation that has already
25 been agreed upon. But they all have dock
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1 spaces there.
2 Those dock spaces, as Commissioner Bronson
3 asked earlier, certainly are going to be
4 entirely usable still. We are not putting our
5 docks in such a way that it will cut off their
6 ability to maneuver into and out of the dock in
7 any way.
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, if I could --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, please.
10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: What you're telling
11 me is this configuration that I guess somebody
12 supplied to us, is not the one you're -- you've
13 changed this? Or is this the most recent?
14 MR. GAY: Yeah. To the extent that I can
15 see that, Commissioner, our dock is going to
16 be -- the proposals we now have are going to be
17 shorter.
18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, because this
19 pretty much --
20 MR. GAY: Oh, yes. All right.
21 That's -- that's the -- I think this is the
22 official permit dock configuration. The dogleg
23 that you see there now would be eliminated, and
24 the length of the dock that you're looking at
25 now would be shortened by a considerable
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1 amount.
2 I don't remember what the exact length was.
3 As you see it before you now, it was something
4 like 560 or so feet long. And it would be
5 considerably shortened now.
6 That it only, I think takes -- it lies
7 outboard of about 20 dock spaces at the
8 mobile home park. And most of those dock
9 spaces are down at the -- what would be
10 actually the eastern end, or the end nearest to
11 the -- to the highway that you see there where
12 the -- where the mobile home park docks are
13 highly concentrated with a lot of sailboats
14 closely moored together.
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: If -- if you'll lay
16 that on the table there, it'll --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Perfect.
18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Just --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: We don't have this in
20 Tallahassee. That's why we're having a hard
21 time with it.
22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Colleen -- Colleen --
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: We're in the
24 big city now, Governor.
25 MR. GAY: Is that me or the system?
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1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: For the -- for the --
2 for the benefit of the audience, because,
3 you know, you're listening to us talk, and I
4 know it's really tough not having any
5 background on this.
6 If you'll look at what you see there,
7 that's the mobile home park, that big island
8 there --
9 Yeah. Thank you, Colleen.
10 -- and the -- there are docks are -- the
11 mobile home docks -- not that -- not --
12 those -- those are -- those are the mobile home
13 docks.
14 What Colleen's going to point out next is a
15 proposed permit for a dock by this -- the
16 client of the speaker.
17 The people living in those -- you're
18 catching on to what -- I didn't -- I didn't do
19 it for that effect. I just did this so you'd
20 catch up with -- with what we're -- what we're
21 dealing with here.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, since the last item
23 on the agenda is a relatively similar kind of
24 conversation --
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Wait till they see
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1 that one.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- you've imported a crowd,
3 Counselor. Well done.
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Would you give us an
5 idea of -- of the new configuration, how far
6 down you're going. And did -- you mean by
7 dogleg, taking that -- that one-sided thing
8 out?
9 MS. CASTILLE: Here?
10 MR. GAY: Yeah.
11 All right. We would be taking out this
12 dogleg here, and we would be extending this
13 dock out straight, and then to the northwest a
14 bit.
15 But it would -- the length of the whole
16 structure would be considerably shortened.
17 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Now, Governor, if I
18 can.
19 That -- what you just showed us there then
20 would say actually the dock's being
21 straightened as you're going to do them are
22 further away from the docks of the other parcel
23 of land than -- than they are right now.
24 MR. GAY: Exactly so. Exactly so.
25 And that was one of the reasons that we did
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1 it, was to give the folks at the mobile home
2 park a little bit more maneuvering room as they
3 were utilizing their mooring -- their docks.
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: And -- and for the
5 benefit of the audience, just because now
6 you're engaged, and you see this, in this
7 dispute that you have with the State, this
8 understanding, it's -- it's your contention,
9 and -- I mean, I don't -- I don't -- I know
10 that you're trying to settle this -- that the
11 owner owns these -- owns this property.
12 MR. GAY: Yes, it is.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: So -- and this -- okay.
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And the -- what --
15 what -- what she's trying to say is that, not
16 only does the owner -- in other words, we
17 normally would lease this property to build a
18 dock.
19 This owner contends that they own the
20 property under these -- where the docks are
21 going to be built, as well as the property
22 under where the mobile home docks are.
23 MR. GAY: Correct.
24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: So he could possibly,
25 if he chose to -- I'm sure he wouldn't -- could
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1 take out all of those docks that the
2 mobile home owners have.
3 So that's why this settlement's an
4 important thing for the mobile home owners, as
5 well as this owner.
6 So it's a little more complicated than it
7 might look.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yeah. Exactly.
9 MR. GAY: We'd rather leave --
10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And we, of course,
11 contend we own the land.
12 MR. GAY: We'd rather leave the docks in
13 and lease them.
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Oh, it gets even more
15 interesting.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
17 TREASURER GALLAGHER: There's a motion and
18 a second.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'd like to -- I'd
20 like to ask David, or Secretary Struhs, if he's
21 got some recommendation how to get out of this
22 dilemma.
23 MR. STRUHS: Well, my recommendation would
24 be -- and this -- and this, frankly, is one of
25 the interesting things about Florida
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1 government, which makes it so special is that
2 it's very democratic, it's very open and -- and
3 fluid.
4 And -- and what happens oftentimes is an
5 agenda item gets put before the Cabinet, and
6 then that forces the parties, sometimes at the
7 last minute, to reconsider their positions,
8 and -- and -- and try to find some compromise.
9 And I think that's what we're witnessing
10 here today. We're obviously, as -- as we're
11 going, seeing people reconfiguring the docks to
12 try to find a compromise that might make all
13 the parties happier.
14 And -- and what I would suggest is one
15 option is that we defer this item, and -- and
16 encourage the mobile home residents, and the
17 other private interests to see if they can't
18 come up with a compromise in terms of the
19 configuration of the dock that might make
20 everybody just a little bit happier, and then
21 could lead us to the settlement in August.
22 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, I -- from
23 my viewpoint of delaying this again, we just
24 saw that the dock is actually going to be
25 further away from the properties as it's
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1 reconfigured, or -- or alluded to be
2 reconfigured.
3 So if they're not willing to agree to have
4 it further away from them, and agree with it, I
5 can't see how any other configuration is going
6 to make them any happier.
7 So I'd just as soon go ahead and -- and
8 let's take care of this item while we're here.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, the
10 unfortunate part is, it is again the linkage of
11 this quitclaim deed to permitting. And I --
12 and I don't think that's a good public policy,
13 and I don't think it's something we ought to
14 do.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, let me ask you a
16 question, David.
17 What would happen if we don't approve this?
18 MR. STRUHS: If we don't approve it, the
19 applicant would apply for the permit for that
20 dock, the Department would grant that permit,
21 it would potentially be litigated through the
22 normal administrative hearings process, and an
23 administrative judge would determine whether or
24 not the Department was correct in that answer
25 or not.
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1 As it relates to the dispute over the
2 ownership of the submerged land, that would go
3 to court and --
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Suppose we --
5 suppose we approve the quitclaim side of it,
6 and -- and not the permitting, not the linkage
7 or the permitting?
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: And it's --
9 MR. STRUHS: That -- that -- that would --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I mean, I don't have
11 any problem with that.
12 MR. STRUHS: I -- I understand that.
13 And -- and -- and I'm not -- I would have
14 to check with our counsel to see if we can do
15 that, because the item before you is a
16 settlement that --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I understand.
18 MR. STRUHS: -- unfortunately has that
19 linkage in it.
20 I'm not sure if we can present to you an
21 agenda item that undoes that linkage, because
22 it wouldn't then necessarily be a settlement to
23 which the other parties have agreed.
24 So it wouldn't, in fact, be a settlement,
25 it would just be --
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- I -- we
2 have attorneys from both parties that are
3 involved in the permitting dispute. They ought
4 to be able to stand up and say if they would
5 accept the -- that type of approach, knowing
6 that they could sort out their permitting
7 problems.
8 MR. STRUHS: Perhaps we could take the
9 item -- delay it, they could go into the
10 hallway and have that discussion, and come back
11 again.
12 And if they agree, then we could have the
13 item rewritten so that it is only the quitclaim
14 deed portion, and not the whole --
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Let's give it --
16 I'd -- Governor, I'd recommend we give it a
17 shot.
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: Can you also have the
19 attorneys from the mobile home owners get
20 together, too?
21 Because the difficulty is I don't like --
22 you know, I don't like making these decisions
23 without all the -- all the pieces in place.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now, David, isn't it true
25 that the -- the agreement as -- as proposed
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1 would give the mobile home park owners their
2 docks as well?
3 MR. STRUHS: Yes, it would.
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: The ones --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Which was not mentioned.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: It would give them their
7 docks without lease -- leasing them in -- in
8 the future?
9 MR. STRUHS: The quitclaim portion of this,
10 apart from the regulatory issues, is -- is --
11 is a two-step process in which the -- the State
12 would quitclaim sovereign land -- or submerged
13 land to -- to the Fisherman's Wharf.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: Right.
15 MR. STRUHS: They, coincidental with that,
16 would -- would take off the portion that is now
17 occupied by those mobile home docks, and
18 quitclaim it to the mobile home --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: So what's this lease stuff?
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yeah.
21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, he's not going
22 to do that if this agreement gets signed.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. I just want to make
24 that clear, because I was a --
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: That's --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- little confused by --
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- that's -- what we
3 have today is an agreement that the mobile home
4 owners were involved in --
5 MR. STRUHS: Right.
6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- they've now agreed
7 to make the dock shorter, the mobile home
8 owners are going to get -- own their docks
9 without having to pay a lease amount --
10 MR. STRUHS: Right.
11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- which could be
12 litigated.
13 MR. STRUHS: Right.
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And this gentleman's
15 client gets to build his deal. That's the
16 reason I made the motion.
17 I -- I -- it's -- I'm not happy about it, I
18 don't like it as a precedent. But I think
19 everybody's sort of gotten together and agreed
20 on this. It's a permit that they have a right
21 to, and they're going to get.
22 And so that's why I made the motion, and I
23 think that's why General Butterworth seconded
24 it.
25 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: And, Governor,
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1 there's not going to be any chance that there
2 down the road is going to be a challenge to the
3 ownership of the property of the homeowners
4 over on the other side, right --
5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Giving them a
6 quitclaim deed on this --
7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Okay. So this will
8 be a completion of the quitclaim -- okay.
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a clarification,
10 however.
11 The -- Fisherman's Wharf is not going to
12 quitclaim this back to the mobile home owners.
13 They're --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- going to quit--
16 No.
17 I thought they were going to quitclaim it
18 to us, and we were not going to charge the
19 mobile home owners.
20 MR. STRUHS: No.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: They're going to --
22 they're going to --
23 MR. STRUHS: Well, maybe I'm misinformed.
24 I'm sorry. Let me -- let me introduce
25 David Thulman, who's --
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1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: David, let's -- let's
2 hear from you.
3 MR. THULMAN: Okay. The -- right now we
4 have a lease with the mobile home park along
5 the edge of the mobile home area, right along
6 here.
7 And if the deal goes through and the
8 quitclaims transfer, we will continue to be the
9 landlord for the mobile home park.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary of State.
11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: But -- but at no --
12 but they're not going to pay.
13 MR. THULMAN: No. They'll continue to pay
14 lease fees.
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Oh, they're paying
16 now?
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yes.
18 MR. THULMAN: Yes.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yes.
20 MR. THULMAN: So really their status will
21 not change as to us.
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: However, if we don't
23 approve it, then potentially we go to court;
24 Fisherman's Wharf owns everything outright;
25 they can do -- build whatever docks they
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1 prefer; and then they will, because they own
2 the land, lease it contig-- you know, in our
3 place, lease it to --
4 MR. THULMAN: Well, they could lease it, or
5 they could --
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: They could do --
7 MR. THULMAN: -- take them --
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- whatever --
9 MR. THULMAN: -- down --
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- they wished.
11 Exactly. They could take them down.
12 MR. THULMAN: As --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But, again, the
14 question -- and my problem is not with the
15 quitclaim. I think that's a -- a good
16 solution.
17 It's again the linkage of the -- of
18 permitting and being held up as --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you all willing to --
20 to take the General up on his challenge to come
21 back in a few minutes, and --
22 MR. GAY: I -- I think on -- on -- on the
23 General's question of -- of linkage, which I --
24 I respect and understand, and we have discussed
25 it previously with DEP, and -- and with others,
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1 the client at this time is not willing to
2 de-link the two matters.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. Well, let's --
4 MR. GAY: We are, however, willing to, and
5 have been engaged in discussing reconfiguration
6 for the dock.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's the great thing about
8 democracy. Now you get a vote. If you don't
9 want to go outside, we'll just -- we'll vote on
10 it, and figure out what happens here.
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: I --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- I have one last
14 thing --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- to say.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: I think that because
19 this is a matter for litigation, there's a lot
20 that -- that, you know, can't be said because
21 it could be litigated in the future.
22 Again, I -- I think that this issue of
23 linkage -- you know, I don't like it, there
24 has -- it's not a -- consider it
25 precedent setting, it has happened before.
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1 However, I think that what Secretary Struhs
2 has proposed is still the best solution that we
3 have to this point, based on all of our laws
4 and practices in the past.
5 However, once we deal with this situation,
6 I would ask that -- that the Cabinet and that
7 Secretary Struhs work together so that we're
8 never put in this position again. And I'd like
9 to have it done through rulemaking.
10 We could always move to waive the rules.
11 But I just want to give Secretary Struhs all
12 the ability in negotiating in settlements that
13 you don't have to be put in that position
14 again, and, therefore, the Cabinet is not put
15 in that position.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: General Butterworth.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
18 I think I was credited with seconding this
19 motion.
20 I'd like to withdraw my -- my second. I'd
21 ask unanimous consent to withdraw my second.
22 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: So then I will
23 second it if we unanimously --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Your -- your motion -- the
25 second's been withdrawn.
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1 The first time as Governor that's ever
2 happened, I tell you that.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Maybe they
4 should go outside, Governor -- I think they
5 should go outside for awhile.
6 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: But I would like to
7 second the original motion.
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: So we're going to
9 have to vote.
10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: And table -- and
11 table at such time that they have a chance to
12 talk it over.
13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, let's just have
14 a vote with the second and --
15 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Okay.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just so y'all know, you
17 need five votes. We -- we -- you know,
18 although, that may be under -- there may be a
19 legal consideration about that as well.
20 So if you're getting a sense of the Cabinet
21 about going outside or not, just wanted to make
22 sure you're aware of that.
23 Yes.
24 MR. McVOY: I just wanted to make one
25 point.
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1 Ross McVoy.
2 I just wanted to make one point to
3 Treasurer Gallagher. The Settlement Agreement
4 was negotiated between the applicant and the
5 State. The mobile -- the mobile home people do
6 not really participate to an extent in that.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: How long
8 have you been involved --
9 MR. McVOY: And I thought somebody --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- in the
11 case, sir?
12 How long have you been involved? Only a
13 couple weeks, isn't it?
14 MR. McVOY: Right.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: This case
16 has been going on for three years.
17 MR. McVOY: Right.
18 I'm not saying --
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Can you --
20 MR. McVOY: -- that's relevant to your --
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I know.
22 MR. McVOY: -- discussion.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I know.
24 MR. McVOY: I just want to --
25 But we'll go outside. We can do --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: There we go.
2 MR. McVOY: Maybe -- maybe we could get in
3 a room, and the best man wins.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Lock the
5 door.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: There you go.
7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Okay. On to Item 5,
8 Governor.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: The motion will be taken
10 up --
11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Tabled?
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's tabled.
13 MR. STRUHS: Just to -- to -- to help
14 expedite this a little bit, I would point out
15 that Items 5, 6, and 7 are all conveyances of
16 land.
17 I want to make it very clear that these are
18 not conservation lands. As you know, if it's
19 conservation land, it has to go through some
20 extra hoops. This is not that case.
21 Item 5 is a request by the Board of Regents
22 to convey the 12-acre parcel of State land that
23 they own in St. Lucie County to the County.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion?
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 5 --
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1 second.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, it's approved.
5 MR. STRUHS: Item 6, recommending approval
6 of a request to convey a little under 50 acres
7 of State-owned land in Palm Beach County to the
8 City of Belle Glade.
9 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MR. STRUHS: And Item Number 7 is a request
14 to convey a 40-acre parcel of State-owned land
15 in Pasco County to Little Everglades Ranch.
16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
18 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 8 is a
22 conservation easement. And just quickly for
23 the benefit of the audience, as -- as you know,
24 Florida is an international model for acquiring
25 conservation lands.
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1 Typically in the past, that has been done
2 by buying the real estate and owning it
3 outright.
4 (Treasurer Gallagher exited the room.)
5 MR. STRUHS: One of the things that
6 Governor Bush and the other members of the
7 Cabinet have directed us to do to make our
8 dollars go farther in terms of providing more
9 conservation with the same amount of dollars is
10 to, rather than bind the property, to leave it
11 in private ownership, leave it on the
12 tax rolls, but buy the protection that we're
13 looking for in perpetuity through a
14 conservation easement.
15 And that is what Item 8 is all about.
16 (Secretary Harris exited the room.)
17 MR. STRUHS: There's actually two different
18 parcels. And these are in the Green Swamp
19 area, an area of Critical State Concern.
20 Recommending approval.
21 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: So move.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
23 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 MR. STRUHS: Just in the interest and
2 quite -- by doing it through a conservation
3 easement rather than a fee simple, the State
4 gets what it needs at 48 and 38 percent of
5 the -- the fee simple value.
6 So it's -- it's -- it's a good bargain.
7 Item Number 9 is -- is one that some of you
8 will remember, are quite familiar with. It's
9 been before you -- deferred three different
10 occasions.
11 We have staff here from the South Florida
12 Water Management District to speak to it if
13 you -- if you -- if you care to. This property
14 is critical for a variety of reasons, including
15 flood control, storage of water and the timing
16 of the release of water for Everglades
17 restoration. And it also provides groundwater
18 recharge for the West Dade Wellfield.
19 It's an authorization to acquire 120 lots
20 from Morton Wald in the East Everglades CARL
21 Project. These lots are, on average, about
22 $6,800 per lot.
23 (Treasurer Gallagher entered the room.)
24 MR. STRUHS: This is a subdivision that
25 was --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you shrink that --
2 MR. STRUHS: This is a subdivision that was
3 plotted in the 1920s.
4 I would also point out that in the event
5 that the land is not acquired, it's likely that
6 an engineering solution would have to be
7 utilized to achieve the same benefits. And all
8 of our engineering experts tell us that the
9 engineered solution -- the construction
10 solution would cost more over --
11 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
12 MR. STRUHS: -- the long term.
13 So I'd be happy to answer any questions, or
14 call upon the Water Management District staff
15 for Item Number 9.
16 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I'd like to move the
17 item.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second.
21 I'd like to have a little discussion about
22 this.
23 MR. STRUHS: I'll ask Joe Schweigart and
24 Erin --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: And I'd -- it is
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1 appropriate that we're in Martin County to
2 discuss this, a place where there is a strong
3 commitment to managing their community's
4 growth.
5 I wish we could show the larger picture of
6 this, Colleen.
7 MS. CASTILLE: We can do that.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: It is more than appropriate
9 that we're in Martin County to discuss this. I
10 think people here will appreciate the fact that
11 we are -- that what is being proposed here --
12 this is --
13 Give a smaller -- maybe -- don't we have
14 a -- a smaller picture rather than --
15 MR. STRUHS: Take a look at the urban
16 service boundary.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Maybe you could show it.
18 This is in west Dade -- west Dade County.
19 Krome Avenue is -- apart from the casino and
20 prison out there, this is the Everglades west
21 of Krome Avenue.
22 This is part of the recharge area that is
23 part of the 8 billion dollar Everglades
24 restoration. It's a critical part of -- of our
25 strategy.
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1 But you see the red line there, the urban
2 service boundary, which this property is west
3 of, and not part of. And it is being proposed
4 that we buy a piece of property at more than a
5 dollar a foot outside the urban service
6 boundary, in an area that -- where the
7 valuations are created, not because of what can
8 be built, but what potentially could be built
9 if the urban service boundary is changed.
10 And so here's one member of the Cabinet
11 that understands the importance of this. But I
12 just despise paying these prices because there
13 is some kind of underlying assumption that
14 counties are going to change their urban
15 service boundaries to allow for development to
16 occur, so we have to buy the land at that
17 prospective price.
18 I -- I just -- you know what? I'm going to
19 vote no on this, just to continue to make this
20 point. And I'm -- I'm hopeful that -- I'm
21 confident that this will pass, maybe not.
22 But -- and it'll probably be used as a
23 campaign ad against, you know, the crazy
24 Governor.
25 But this is wrong. This is absolutely
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1 wrong. We are -- we don't have enough money to
2 buy all the lands that we need to buy to
3 protect our natural systems, unless we get our
4 county governments to join us in managing
5 growth in a much different way.
6 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: I get my blood boiling when
8 this happens.
9 (Applause.)
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: I didn't -- thank you.
11 I didn't mean it for that.
12 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, could I
13 make a comment on this, since I was the one to
14 move -- to move the item.
15 I -- and I do agree with you. We're --
16 we're really stuck in these situations. This
17 has happened more than just a few times in the
18 short time I've been on the Florida Cabinet.
19 My turmoil was that this is a very needed
20 piece of land for a project that's very vital
21 to the Everglades restoration program, and also
22 for water conservation efforts west of the
23 Miami-Dade area.
24 And I would -- I, like you, would like to
25 encourage the counties all over the state to
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1 help us in preparation for growth so that we
2 don't have to buy a dollar -- a dollar a foot
3 pieces of property.
4 But the real -- the real matter here -- and
5 I certainly support you in your effort -- but
6 the real matter here on this particular piece
7 of property is it's very well-needed, and --
8 and that's why I went ahead to move the --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's no --
10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: -- item.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- denying that. There's
12 absolutely no denying that.
13 In fact, if you -- the irony of this,
14 of course, is if you -- if you go on that map
15 there -- this is my hometown, so I -- this is
16 something I know a little bit about.
17 If you go east of where that property is,
18 it's a little bit north, we have the worst
19 flooding in the state.
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Not if the
21 20 million --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: If -- you know, we have
23 drought conditions, and then it rains for
24 5 inches, and Sweetwater, which is just -- a
25 little bit east of here, and -- and many areas
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1 of -- of -- even west of there, and -- and
2 Fontainbleu, there's all these areas -- get
3 flooded beyond -- I mean, to the point where
4 homes have 3 feet, 4 feet of water in them.
5 And a lot of it relates to the fact that we
6 don't have the capacity to store water.
7 And this is a -- this is our best hope
8 to -- to be able to recharge our aquifer, and
9 to create areas where water can -- can stay,
10 instead of flooding out people.
11 And -- so, I mean, I'm not denying it's not
12 an important strategy. There's -- there's no
13 question about it. I just -- maybe the
14 counties that have better growth management
15 policies should -- should get -- you know, get
16 the -- the better deals. Maybe we ought to
17 share in the -- the benefits.
18 And the ones that -- that don't, maybe
19 somehow they ought to be -- start to buy some
20 of this land with us, or --
21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Just --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- something. I don't
23 know.
24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- just to --
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: It's --
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1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- mention something,
2 if I may, Governor.
3 One of the reasons that we find ourselves
4 buying property like this is if you see where
5 that red line is, and it sort of does not
6 include that piece of property as far as the
7 western boundary of developable -- developable
8 land at this point, we have seen recently in
9 Broward County where, in fact, they moved that
10 line over to the west.
11 And so this piece, knowing that Dade isn't
12 a whole lot different than Broward when these
13 kind of things come along, landowner finds
14 somebody that wants to develop it, they figure
15 out how, and they get that line moved to the
16 west.
17 And that's what happened in Broward County.
18 I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it wouldn't
19 happen here. And that's --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: It might.
21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- one of the reasons
22 we ought to buy it.
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: Well, Governor, is there
24 some-- I don't have any creative ideas about
25 rulemaking authority.
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1 But is there something we can do -- I mean,
2 and maybe that's a discussion for another time
3 on a workshop by DEP, as you say, to award
4 those counties who have -- are being
5 responsible with regard to their urban sprawl
6 or growth and --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I -- I think
8 that's -- you know, this -- this year in the
9 Legislature, we made an effort to begin the
10 process of transforming our growth management
11 laws to do simple things like tying school
12 planning with urban planning, which doesn't
13 exist today unless it's done by, you know, just
14 volunteer activities between school districts
15 and counties.
16 Ultimately as part of that growth
17 management, there are ways, absolutely, that we
18 can -- we can look at where State monies don't
19 go into areas where development is not -- where
20 the infrastructure needs exceed the -- the
21 benefits of development.
22 And I mean, there's -- there's a lot of
23 things that are going on. This is an issue
24 that's being discussed all across the country.
25 And so, yes, I mean, it's -- it's really
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1 through the Legislature though that I think
2 most of this ultimately will have to be -- have
3 to be --
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: And, Secretary Struhs, I
5 think -- we've talked a lot about buying
6 developmental rights, buying what we -- what's
7 happened in Seattle on the easements --
8 MR. STRUHS: Right.
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- and that's something
10 really important that I -- you know, I'm proud
11 of what we're doing, but the -- we need to
12 really focus on.
13 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, also I
14 think the people that are watching that map --
15 or looking at that map, should -- should
16 understand, just to the right of where that
17 circle is drawn down there, when I was with
18 W.R. Grace & Company back in the early '70s,
19 all that was in sweet corn and pole beans, and
20 was actually being farmed and utilized and
21 actually used as a buffer for that water
22 because of pressures of development and people
23 not wanting farmers to farm next to them
24 because they felt there was a problem, and
25 so forth.
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1 They basically have run the farmers out.
2 And that's why that encroachment is going
3 further and further.
4 So -- and that's happening all over the
5 state.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's easy to
7 run them out at this amount of money.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yeah.
9 COMMISSIONER RHODES: It's -- well, and
10 it --
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: It's --
12 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: -- and when it gets
13 to the point where their cost of production
14 exceeds the amount of money they can possibly
15 get back for a crop, they're going to sell,
16 because they have no other option.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I ask the -- the South
18 Florida Water Management District --
19 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- representative a
21 question?
22 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
23 MR. SCHWEIGART: Joe Schweigart.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Joe. Thank you for being
25 here.
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1 What would happen -- if we buy this at --
2 at $44,000 an acre, a dollar two cents a foot,
3 I assume we're going to be buying other land
4 out here.
5 MR. SCHWEIGART: That's correct. Yes.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do we establish a value by
7 doing this, so -- so I'm going to have to
8 suffer through purchases now on a regular --
9 regular basis when we --
10 MR. SCHWEIGART: Yes, sir. The -- you all
11 touched on all the critical issues and
12 frustrations that we have in this regard.
13 The appraisal has indicated what -- what
14 the land sales are. And based on the -- the
15 lot activity, the fact that this is platted,
16 it's very close to the development line that
17 could move.
18 Most -- most importantly, we --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: We can't price our --
20 MR. SCHWEIGART: I -- I understand.
21 Yes, sir.
22 The critical --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Prospective government
24 action should not be the justification of an --
25 MR. SCHWEIGART: Yes, sir.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- appraiser.
2 MR. SCHWEIGART: Yes, sir.
3 I --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's just --
5 MR. SCHWEIGART: -- I understand that.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's a killer.
7 MR. SCHWEIGART: And -- and we're
8 frustrated. The fact of the matter is, this is
9 an integral part of a restoration project that
10 will provide water supply in --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand. But what --
12 back to the question --
13 MR. SCHWEIGART: Yes.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: We have a lot of land, from
15 here all the way north --
16 MR. SCHWEIGART: Yes, sir.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that -- where the urban
18 service boundary, in varying degrees of
19 proximity, is -- is very close to the east of
20 where this property will be purchased over the
21 next four or five years.
22 Are we establishing a value of over a
23 dollar a foot for all the land that we buy east
24 of Krome from here north as part of that buffer
25 zone?
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1 MR. SCHWEIGART: Yes. The answer's no,
2 we're not.
3 The -- and this is Ken Wald from -- from
4 our appraisal unit. And -- and maybe you
5 can --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is it coincidental that
7 your -- your name is Wald?
8 MR. SCHWEIGART: No. No. I mean Ken --
9 MR. DAW: Ken Daw.
10 MR. SCHWEIGART: -- Ken Daw.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Ken Daw. I'm sorry.
12 That may be part of the problem. That
13 could only --
14 MR. DAW: Governor, the -- the answer to
15 your question would be no.
16 Section 17 is unique in that it is platted,
17 and there are small -- very small tracts within
18 the -- the middle of this section. And that's
19 what we're proposing that you vote on today is
20 the acquisition of some very small parcels of
21 land that collectively constitute about
22 eighteen-and-a-half acres more that --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: But you can't build on
24 those lots right now, unless you -- if you --
25 you build one -- you could build one unit per
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1 5 acres, couldn't you, something like that?
2 MR. DAW: That -- that's correct.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That's right.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: So we're not buying this
5 for one unit per 5 acres.
6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: But on the other
7 hand, we're pay $6,800 per lot.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Per lot.
9 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: But you can't build on
11 them.
12 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Today.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Why should we pay for
14 prospective value that a government would
15 create through its action?
16 (Applause.)
17 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I have a suggestion.
18 And -- and because, you know, there are certain
19 rights we have clouded, et cetera.
20 One of the things we can do, is we can take
21 the Everglades restoration area, and declare it
22 as an area of Critical State Concern. When we
23 do that, we then have control on whether or not
24 anybody ever gets a chance to build there.
25 And --
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1 (Applause.)
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- that way we -- we
3 won't be getting these kind of prices, because
4 they aren't going to be building there.
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: Cool.
6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And we had this in
7 the Keys for many, many years. It's a
8 suggestion I would like to do, and I -- I --
9 I'm not sure that -- I mean, maybe we can make
10 a motion to do it right now. If so, I'll be
11 glad to do it.
12 I'd have to have some legal advice.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think --
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: But it might need to
15 get a little notice before we --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Don't you think the Florida
17 Legislature has to -- the Legislature does that
18 I think. You may want to check in with Dale
19 and --
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I knew there might
21 be -- need some lawyers here to do this.
22 MR. DAW: One -- one thing I would like to
23 point out though is that the value conclusion
24 reached in the appraisal was not based on the
25 urban development boundary moving, it was based
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1 on comparable land sales within that section.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. But -- that's fine.
3 But why -- where -- where do those
4 valuations come from if they -- if you can't
5 develop the properties, except for one unit per
6 5 acres?
7 It's still based on that prospective -- the
8 appraisals are based on a prospective eval--
9 valuation then, aren't they?
10 MR. DAW: Well, the appraiser -- his job is
11 to research what -- what market participants
12 are doing, and re-- and reflect what the market
13 is doing.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Right.
15 MR. DAW: And they're buying and selling
16 land --
17 (Commissioner Bronson exited the room.)
18 MR. DAW: -- based on a per lot basis.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Exactly.
20 And the -- but the -- the -- the
21 valuation -- these are speculators -- not
22 Mr. Wald, but others that are purchasing the
23 property -- they are -- they are speculating
24 that at some point, either the State will buy
25 it based on the property being as though it was
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1 in the urban service boundary, or the urban
2 service boundary would move, and then they
3 could either develop the property at that
4 higher valuation, or sell it for someone that
5 would.
6 I mean, I -- I don't deny the fact that you
7 can find an appraiser that -- that gives a
8 valuation of this.
9 My problem is that if -- well, change --
10 change counties. Move to -- move to west
11 Martin County where the traditions about urban
12 service boundaries are dramatically different.
13 I don't think you would find appraisers
14 finding properties being bought at a
15 prospective valuation there, because there is a
16 consistency in this county that is different
17 than maybe in Miami-Dade.
18 I mean, it -- you -- is that accurate?
19 MR. DAW: Could be.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's my -- I mean, I --
21 I'm in the -- this is the wrong place to -- to
22 express my frustrations about this.
23 This really is a legislative -- this --
24 this has to be -- we just have to change our
25 growth management laws in -- in a way that
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1 would reward thoughtful planning, and have a
2 different consequence for the unintended
3 consequences of bad planning, because we pay
4 the price.
5 I mean, we -- this -- every -- this comes
6 up every Cabinet meeting.
7 General.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: How many lots have
9 you bought in this particular area?
10 MR. SCHWEIGART: This will be the first.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: This is the first
12 one?
13 MR. SCHWEIGART: First time, 120 lots.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: A hundred and twenty
15 out of -- 120 out of how many?
16 MR. DAW: There's roughly 1100 tracts.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Eleven hundred.
18 And -- and we're buying 120, and we are
19 reconfirming -- or confirming the values placed
20 on those lots with this purchase.
21 And so we are digging ourselves into a -- a
22 fairly deep hole with this, in terms of what
23 we're going to have to pay in the future for
24 the next 1,000.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Eleven hundred --
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1 MR. SCHWEIGART: And we wish there was an
2 alternative --
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- not sixty-eight?
4 MR. SCHWEIGART: -- in terms of their
5 saving this -- this water recharge area and
6 reservoir.
7 But this is an integral part of -- of the
8 comprehensive Everglades restoration project
9 and --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, when -- what
11 would happen -- what would happen, Joe, if --
12 if we turned this down and -- and you were
13 forced to go back and renegotiate prices?
14 Would you find willing sellers, do you
15 think, at a little lower price?
16 MR. SCHWEIGART: You know, based on -- on
17 the -- the laws that we have to follow,
18 we're -- we're forced, believe it or not, to
19 offer the --
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The appraised value.
21 MR. SCHWEIGART: -- appraised value.
22 Yes, sir.
23 So we're between --
24 (Commissioner Bronson entered the room.)
25 MR. SCHWEIGART: -- a rock and a --
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: As well reinforce
2 the appraised value with this purchase.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: That was my question.
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: At least not --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Based on -- based on the
6 lots you would do that. Maybe not the -- the
7 bulk purchases later on --
8 MR. SCHWEIGART: Outside the platted area.
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: Eleven hundred lots --
10 MR. SCHWEIGART: Yeah. And we have --
11 I think we're ready to go up 33 lots
12 previously.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: General?
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
15 how you buy this land is -- I guess in the
16 Federal rules that you must pay the appraised
17 price?
18 MR. SCHWEIGART: Yes.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If you were
20 to condemn the land --
21 MR. SCHWEIGART: A hundred and
22 sixty-three percent probably. I mean, on the
23 average.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: But you
25 don't pay lawyers' fees under the Federal
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1 rules -- you would be doing it under Federal
2 rules.
3 MR. SCHWEIGART: We would be under State
4 rules.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So you -- so
6 we're offering under Federal rules, but when we
7 go to eminent domain, we go under State rules?
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Because we have to
9 use State eminent domain. We can't use Federal
10 eminent domain.
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: And then we've got
12 163 percent, instead of 100 percent.
13 MR. STRUHS: On average.
14 MR. SCHWEIGART: On average.
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: On average.
16 And what about if we said it was an area of
17 critical concern, is that a taking?
18 I mean, would that be -- do you know about
19 areas of --
20 Commissioner Gallagher, if we -- if we
21 declared it a -- an area of critical concern,
22 is that considered a taking, which would be
23 similar or -- General Butterworth, would that
24 be similar to --
25 I don't want to pay 163 percent.
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1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: It isn't a taking.
2 I mean, it -- everybody can go to court on it.
3 But certainly they -- the Keys basically
4 slowed down and did what we needed to have done
5 down there so they didn't have outlandish
6 growth that made no sense.
7 But I guess it's a legislative prerogative.
8 I don't know.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Further,
10 Governor.
11 If the -- if the Florida Legislature was to
12 pass legislation which said that in these areas
13 where if we had to go with eminent domain, we
14 would go under the Federal rules, whereby with
15 lawyers' fees, it would not be added, what --
16 that should have a positive effect, I would
17 think, in -- in this arena.
18 MR. SCHWEIGART: I would think so, yes.
19 Because the Federal process is --
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We put that
21 in the appraisal.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, any other questions,
23 comments?
24 You're going to be the first --
25 MR. STRUHS: Yes. There is actually.
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1 I just remembered. Erin Deady from the
2 Florida Audubon Society wanted to speak to the
3 issue.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
5 MR. STRUHS: Thank you, Erin.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome.
7 MS. DEADY: Thank you.
8 Erin Deady. I'm environmental counsel for
9 Audubon of Florida.
10 And we have an interest in this water
11 preserve areas project back to 1993 when we
12 proposed it as part of the Everglades
13 coalition.
14 I don't want to spend a lot of time talking
15 about the fundamental purposes of this project.
16 I think everybody's very clear on that.
17 But I work local government a lot for
18 Audubon of Florida. And I just wanted to speak
19 to a couple of the issues and the development
20 pressures in this area.
21 Particularly there is a project in process
22 right now to expand the urban development
23 boundary just north of this parcel.
24 That is a -- that is a problem, and that is
25 happening, and it is going to occur up and down
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1 the east coast buffer.
2 One of our big initiatives at Audubon of
3 Florida has been front-loading land acquisition
4 as part of the CERP process, because we are
5 going to continue to come up against these
6 battles.
7 And these water preserve areas are the
8 front because they are in the lower east coast
9 area where development speculation is occurring
10 right and left.
11 The problem, if we start second-guessing
12 where we are in the process of engineering the
13 reservoirs and the design and the configuration
14 of these components is we lose efficiency in
15 the ability to store water. This parcel is
16 going to store 11,500 acre feet of water --
17 (Commissioner Crist exited the room.)
18 MS. DEADY: -- and in a time of drought, we
19 need every drop we can get.
20 This project was already authorized by
21 Congress as part of the initial authorization
22 for CERP.
23 $44,000 an acre based on the comparable
24 values in the area, I understand that it's one
25 unit per 5 acres right now. But at this point,
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1 I'm not so sure that Dade County wouldn't be
2 expanding its urban development boundary
3 sometime in the near future.
4 I can't reemphasize enough the idea that
5 Commissioner Gallagher came up with with an
6 area of Critical State Concern designation.
7 I believe that can be done through directing
8 DCA through a rulemaking effort, and then it
9 heads back to the Legislature. So some kind of
10 affirmative outcome today could be to direct
11 DCA to initiate that rulemaking process.
12 I'm not totally clear on the law. I'd want
13 you to speak to your attorneys. But that might
14 be one way that we can prevent this from
15 happening in the future.
16 Lands are going to be lost in this project.
17 They're going to be lost every day. We've got
18 a project in the hopper right now in expanding
19 the urban development boundary. So we can't
20 emphasize enough our support for this.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question.
22 Would you point out just for the audience
23 that -- that it's actually outlined on this --
24 the proposed urban development boundary and the
25 dotted lines --
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1 MS. DEADY: It's --
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- that's just to the
3 north of this property?
4 MS. DEADY: Right.
5 The expansion that I believe is taking
6 place is up where -- around that Lake Bell
7 area.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. Secondly, is
9 there an urgency -- if, indeed, we do as a
10 Cabinet set -- direct DCA in terms of
11 rulemaking to look at this in terms -- as an
12 area of critical concern, is there a sense of
13 urgency -- is -- because there's nothing on the
14 plan with the County right now to extend this
15 boundary at the moment, could we direct DCA in
16 this rulemaking today, would it -- would it
17 seriously compromise the ability to purchase
18 this project if, indeed, the Legislature --
19 Legislature is meeting early this year, or
20 passed it in January and February, and we could
21 look -- come back and look at it then.
22 MS. DEADY: I can't emphasize how important
23 that is. I mean, I can speak to specific
24 projects in Palm Beach and potentially Broward
25 where we are in jeopardy of losing --
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: My question is: Can we
2 postpone this decision until March of next
3 year?
4 MS. DEADY: I would urge you not to,
5 because, like I said, there is a project in the
6 hopper right now to expand the urban
7 development --
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: But not in this area.
9 MS. DEADY: Not in this area. But there's
10 nothing foreclosing that opportunity from
11 happening --
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: But because there's
13 nothing in this area presently, couldn't we
14 continue to -- to watch that in the case there
15 was -- there's no proposal at this point to
16 extend the boundary in this particular area.
17 If the Legislature were to pass this
18 initiative making it an area of critical
19 concern, then we'd still have the ability to
20 come back in March, or any time prior to that,
21 if, indeed, we felt that they were going to
22 move that development boundary.
23 MS. DEADY: My fear in delaying that would
24 be that every day we're sitting here -- every
25 minute we're sitting here now, that land's
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1 becoming more valuable.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: But --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, this is --
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- is not more value --
5 I mean, that -- that value's based on a -- on
6 a -- a value in the future. And it -- that
7 value will not materialize unless that urban
8 boundary is extended.
9 Because you can't -- you cannot go right
10 now as it is.
11 MS. DEADY: But land can take -- land
12 exchanges can take place in the interim. And
13 every time a land exchange takes place, it
14 bumps up that value just a little bit more.
15 We've seen this happen with other
16 properties in the water preserve areas that
17 were targeted where the land wasn't necessarily
18 sold for development --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think we've already --
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Uh-hum.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- reached the apex here
22 if it's a buck a foot. I mean, that's a
23 pretty --
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yeah. I mean, that --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- good price.
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- that seems like it's
2 going to be the maximum.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, we -- we should
4 probably move on here with a vote. Because
5 we've got -- we've got a group from
6 Jacksonville, and an item there that's going to
7 take some time and -- and we've got people out
8 at the -- so outside waiting for some of us.
9 So maybe we should --
10 Any other discussion? Maybe we ought to
11 vote.
12 There's a motion and a second by
13 Commissioner Bronson on this item.
14 All in favor, say aye.
15 THE CABINET: Aye.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Opposed?
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: No.
19 Motion passes.
20 Thank you very much.
21 And I -- I -- I think we should pursue
22 Secretary Harris' idea of -- of Critical State
23 Concern, and determine whether that --
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: No. Commissioner Gall--
25 I have to give -- Commissioner Gallagher.
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1 Sorry.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Commissioner Gallagher.
3 Sorry.
4 It's a -- it's a valuable -- maybe -- maybe
5 at the next meeting we can -- I think make a --
6 I don't even know what the process is --
7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: If you would -- if --
8 if we would give them instructions to bring it
9 back to us at the next meeting, we can do
10 what -- whatever the lawyers say we have to do.
11 MR. STRUHS: What we will do is we -- we'll
12 use July to work with the Cabinet Aides, and
13 brief them on what we think the best strategy
14 is. And then they'll brief you, and then when
15 we get together in August, we can have that
16 discussion.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. Onward.
18 (Secretary Harris exited the room.)
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Hopefully have a -- a
20 plan to bring to us.
21 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Eleven?
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 10?
24 (Commissioner Crist entered the room.)
25 MR. STRUHS: Item 10, we'd like to de--
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1 defer that item.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion to defer?
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Defer to August 14th.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
5 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: No objection, it's
7 deferred.
8 MR. STRUHS: Item 11, seeking approval for
9 an option agreement to acquire 202 acres within
10 the Gold Head Branch State Park. This is an
11 inholding.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: One
18 question, David.
19 This is going to be a pretty quick closing,
20 isn't it? I see -- I see the lady's a hundred
21 and three years old that we're buying it from?
22 MR. STRUHS: It's --
23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Either that, or the
24 kids are going to take her to the closing so
25 they can get it.
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1 MR. STRUHS: Item 12 is a -- three
2 different option agreements totaling 226 acres
3 in the Babcock-Webb Wildlife Management Area.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move Item 12.
5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Thirteen.
9 MR. STRUHS: What I'd like to do, just to
10 set the stage for these last items is we are
11 now -- or you are now about to approve the
12 final P2000 projects -- the final projects that
13 will likely be funded with the
14 Preservation 2000 money. The ten-year program
15 is now coming to a close.
16 And you'll recall that the Florida
17 Legislature in this past session passed a new
18 law that freezes our ability to spend any new
19 P2000 monies, and, indeed, reserving it now to
20 contribute to part of the Everglades
21 restoration plan. And the total amount of that
22 is 75 million dollars.
23 What we did as a goal of -- of spending all
24 of the P2000 money possible, without going into
25 the 75 million that the Legislature set aside
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1 for Everglades, we ended up with only $750,000
2 remaining. And that's about as close as we
3 could do it in terms of managing all these
4 project to their --
5 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
6 MR. STRUHS: -- natural conclusion.
7 The reason I wanted to brief you on this is
8 because if, indeed, you approve Item 13, as
9 we're going to recommend, that will not leave
10 enough money in the P2000 account to pay for
11 Item 14.
12 And -- and that was by design so that in
13 the event that any of the projects should not
14 be approved, we'd still spend down that money.
15 So that was by design --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, it's by design only
17 because, again --
18 MR. STRUHS: It is in the legislative
19 action.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: We didn't design it this
21 way.
22 MR. STRUHS: Right. This is our response
23 to the -- the -- the reduction in funding that
24 was a result of the legislative action.
25 That does not mean that this Item 14 will
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1 not be back before you again. It likely will
2 at some point as part of a Florida Forever
3 program. But this project still has to go
4 through the normal competitive process in which
5 it is evaluated on the merits with other
6 options in the Lake Wales Ridge Ecosystem
7 Project.
8 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Question.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Commissioner.
10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I have a -- I have a
11 question, Mr. Secretary.
12 Since both of these Items, 13 and 14, are
13 both dealing with the Fish and Wildlife
14 Conservation Commission, have they --
15 of course, the price tag on the second one
16 is -- is quite a bit larger.
17 But as -- as an issue of which one is the
18 most important to the commission, has that --
19 was that discussed as to which of these
20 items -- of course, if we only have
21 nine hundred and some odd thousand left, right,
22 we can --
23 MR. STRUHS: The way -- the way we managed
24 that, Commissioner, is, as you know, the
25 Preservation 2000 money is divided -- or
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1 allocated into various accounts. And those
2 allocations are based on -- on -- on statutory
3 provisions in the P2000 program.
4 Respecting that, when we now had a
5 reduction in funds that was imposed
6 across-the-board in all those agencies, we had
7 to come up with a -- with a scheme for
8 allocating who's going to bear the pain.
9 And what we did is we followed a model that
10 was based on money left unspent, essentially
11 recognizing that some of the agencies had been
12 more aggressive in terms of spending the
13 resources available to them, and others had
14 not.
15 So that's the framework in which we
16 approached this.
17 And then after we made that determination,
18 it was on a first come, first served basis, as
19 the project would come in, until we got to the
20 point where we hit as close to that
21 75 million dollar mark as we possibly could.
22 Item 14 came in last, was the last one in,
23 but we allowed the last one in as that extra
24 cushion.
25 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Well, if I could
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1 make a --
2 MR. STRUHS: We -- we -- I think my point
3 would be it would be unfair to the other land
4 management, land acquisition agents to I think
5 now take them out of order, because we brought
6 together all the agencies, and laid out the
7 rules of the road in terms of how we were going
8 to manage this process.
9 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Well, I -- there's
10 two issues here.
11 One, I want to make sure that we're not
12 somehow superseding the issue of which is the
13 more important item based on actual factual
14 science and determination by the agencies
15 involved. That's the first issue.
16 And the second one that I -- having just
17 come out of the legislative process, and I know
18 how this was done. I did not support removing
19 the 75 million from that pot of money.
20 But we have to do a better job of showing a
21 commitment of that money, whether it's actually
22 spent right then, you know, it takes a year,
23 sometimes two years to settle a piece of
24 property to be able to put into this program.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: We learned our lesson,
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1 Senator.
2 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: And -- and once you
3 go through a million, 2 million dollars worth
4 of preparation to buy a piece of property to
5 have it taken, you've already lost the money
6 you spent preparing to get it, and then you --
7 then you lose the property that you've prepared
8 to -- to finish.
9 And I think that that needs -- those
10 figures need to be included as somehow spent
11 money so that they know that that's got to be a
12 completed process.
13 The problem was, since it wasn't actually
14 pulled out of the account and spent, the
15 Legislature got their hands on it, and used it
16 for part of the other programs.
17 And -- and that's going to happen to us
18 every time if we can't come up with a way to
19 show that this is a -- an issue that's been
20 worked on, it's ready to be bought, and to keep
21 their hands off of it.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: The Department and all of
23 the agencies now have been instructed to match
24 their cash -- their -- their -- the asset --
25 the -- the indebtedness that -- that we give
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1 them with the purchases so that there's closer
2 to more simultaneously closing with the
3 issuance of the bonds, and the purchase of
4 the -- of the properties.
5 It's just good cash management, and we made
6 good progress the last couple of years. But
7 now we're going to be as efficient as -- as all
8 get out, because if not, the -- the Legislature
9 might take the money again.
10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: And I -- and --
11 while I've got -- Governor, while I've got the
12 bully pulpit here for a minute, I'm going to
13 throw something else up.
14 And that is the fact that when -- at the
15 time that we were drawing interest on the money
16 that was waiting to be spent on those projects
17 for P2000 -- and we went over this time and
18 time again -- instead of using that -- those
19 money (sic) to help us manage the State lands
20 that we're acquiring by the millions of acres,
21 so eventually out of -- after -- after the new
22 process goes into place, instead of using that
23 money to actually manage the lands that we're
24 acquiring, that money has been put into other
25 projects that have nothing to do with the
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1 preservation of land and the management of
2 those lands.
3 And -- and until we can put some real money
4 into management of State lands, not just buying
5 it, but manage it so it doesn't look like Asia
6 and South America, but actually looks like
7 Florida, then I don't think we've accomplished
8 what we set out to do in this land acquisition
9 program.
10 So --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, Florida Forever is
12 increasing the amount of money going for
13 management of lands.
14 MR. STRUHS: That's right.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: And changed the -- actually
16 changed the percentages towards -- ironically
17 allowing for the purchases of the property that
18 just passed by a 5-2 vote.
19 So --
20 MR. STRUHS: I would just point out, you
21 all deserve a lot of credit, because earlier
22 today in this meeting when Ben Watkins was
23 before you, he brought the first bond issue for
24 Florida Forever.
25 And -- and I think probably noted for your
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1 benefit that it was not the full 300 million
2 dollars, it was only 50 million.
3 And that -- that is the first demons--
4 that's the first demonstration of what I think
5 is our better money management.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: So -- so, David, Item 13,
7 if we approve this, then there's no money for
8 Item 14, is that the deal?
9 MR. STRUHS: That is correct. We would
10 withdraw that item -- recognize that this
11 item -- this property still needs to be
12 approved by the Acquisition and Restoration
13 Council, and ranked and put on the list --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 14 -- to go back again
15 through the process.
16 MR. STRUHS: Which is only appropriate.
17 But it -- it is a distinct possibility that you
18 might see this item again --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: We hope so --
20 MR. STRUHS: -- in -- in -- in a few
21 months.
22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 13.
23 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
25 second on Item 13.
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1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. STRUHS: We --
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to --
4 MR. STRUHS: -- and --
5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- withdraw at
6 this --
7 MR. STRUHS: -- and it --
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- time 14.
9 MR. STRUHS: -- and it probably is -- it
10 probably -- I know we're running short on time,
11 but Item 13, this is a -- something --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: You want to describe it?
13 MR. STRUHS: -- we're real proud of.
14 This --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Go ahead.
16 MR. STRUHS: -- this is -- one of the Gov--
17 one of the set of instructions the Governor has
18 given me is to be especially attentive to
19 protecting Florida's springs.
20 And what this does, if you read the fine
21 print, is this actually puts into perpetual
22 conservation one of Florida's most famous
23 springs, which is Weeki Wachee Springs. And
24 it's a major part of our Florida Springs
25 Initiative.
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1 This represents, I think, Florida's
2 commitment, your commitment, to protecting
3 these -- and it's really a big deal.
4 So thank you.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: What are the -- what are
6 the -- what happens with the mermaids?
7 MR. STRUHS: This is a full appointment for
8 mermaids, job protection.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 14, there is a motion
10 to --
11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Withdraw.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- withdraw.
13 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
14 MR. STRUHS: Now, what -- what I would
15 propose doing, if it --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: We got a motion to --
17 MR. STRUHS: -- to --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- withdraw. There's a
19 second.
20 MR. STRUHS: -- is to bring back Item 4.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without --
22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Why don't we --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- objection, the --
24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- finish --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- motion's withdrawn.
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1 Okay. Item 4.
2 And I appreciate the -- the patience of the
3 last item on the agenda, everybody being here.
4 We're going to be with you in about
5 2 minutes.
6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Okay. Where we are
7 on 4 is we have a motion and a second pending.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry. David, there
9 was someone from Fish and Wildlife that would
10 like to speak on the other item that we just
11 withdrew.
12 MS. CASTILLE: Brad.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sorry, Mr. Hartman. Came
14 all the way --
15 MR. HARTMAN: I thought we were past that.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: You would like to speak if
17 that's the --
18 MR. HARTMAN: I would like to speak.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Go ahead.
20 MR. HARTMAN: I'd just like to -- to speak
21 about Item 14, the Royce Ranch.
22 This is a project that we have been working
23 on for about the last two years, pretty hard
24 for the last year.
25 We can't carry a major inventory of
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1 projects like -- like some of the bigger
2 outfits do, because we only got eight -- about
3 8.7 million a year in the inholdings and
4 addition; and in the Florida Forever, that goes
5 down to 4.5.
6 This is probably our most important single
7 project that we've had in -- in the last year.
8 And it's important because it's -- in this
9 particular case, we have a project that's --
10 goes beyond our normal inholdings, which are
11 important in themselves to try to maintain
12 project boundaries.
13 But it actually has some -- some critical
14 resources that we're trying to get under our
15 management. And it's got ten species of
16 endangered plants, and some wildlife that we
17 don't find anywhere else, except in the -- in
18 the older geologic scrubs.
19 So we -- we've got ourselves in a
20 situation, we've got six-and-a-half million
21 dollar project; we don't -- it's -- it's going
22 to be very difficult to scrounge up
23 six-and-a-half million dollars through the --
24 the Florida Forever inholdings and additions.
25 And while we recognize the difficulties
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1 that y'all have faced in trying to -- trying to
2 split the baby in whatever pieces, I would -- I
3 would like to leave here today, if possible,
4 with some kind of additional assurance that
5 this project is not basically dead.
6 Because if we just drop out of this, and go
7 over to the -- the ARC and through that
8 process, we're basically starting anew on a new
9 process with plenty of competition for the --
10 the small amount of money that -- that's in
11 the -- in that program.
12 If we could -- originally I had sought to
13 try to get an approval here, with a contingent
14 on either P2000 money being available, or
15 contingent on -- on future actions by the ARC.
16 I've discussed that with your staff, and --
17 and they don't like that idea.
18 If I could get some kind of assurance or
19 message that would help me in my future -- in
20 my future trying to get this approved through
21 the ARC, and back to you all, I had heard that
22 this would perhaps be deferred instead of just
23 simply withdrawn.
24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, they -- they'll
25 be the same, because if you get a deal and you
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1 got -- figure out where the money's coming
2 from, David will bring it back to us.
3 Is it -- it can come up just as quick --
4 quick on a deferral or withdrawal.
5 MR. HARTMAN: Okay. That's all I have to
6 say.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
8 All right. Item what number is it?
9 MR. STRUHS: Well, I -- I would propose
10 going back to Item Number 4.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: As I understand it, there
12 was not an agreement reached --
13 MR. STRUHS: That --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- by the parties out --
15 out back -- out back or out front.
16 MR. STRUHS: That -- that is correct.
17 Although I -- I -- I believe that both
18 sides wanted to make one final statement.
19 Is that correct?
20 And maybe we could keep them to 2 minutes
21 apiece.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
23 Or even less, if they'd like.
24 MR. GAY: Giving lawyers that kind of
25 control.
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1 MR. McVOY: Right.
2 I think this is -- General Milligan, I
3 think this is where we call in air support on
4 our own position here.
5 The homeowners are willing to look at these
6 dock-additional new configurations. I'm happy
7 to take them back to them and try and work --
8 work something out.
9 The question of what -- if I could be very
10 presumptuous for a moment -- what you should do
11 I think is weighed by looking at the fact that
12 the agreement does have a beachhead or
13 protection for the -- the homeowners if all
14 this thing goes through.
15 On the other hand, they do have the
16 opportunity to challenge the dock. And I'm not
17 going to stand up here and say approve this.
18 But I think that's worth -- worth weighing.
19 And I hope -- maybe I'll get in trouble
20 with Treasurer Gallagher here -- but for what
21 it's worth, I think you ought to have a rule,
22 because at least it's another hurdle that
23 somebody's got to overcome through these
24 linkage things, which I don't think are good
25 policy.
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1 That's all I have to say.
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: You're not in trouble
3 with me. I don't think they're good policy
4 either.
5 MR. McVOY: Good.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, sir.
7 MR. McVOY: No. I'm talking about the
8 rule.
9 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Oh. Well, I don't
10 have a problem with the rule either.
11 MR. GAY: We would be in favor of the rule
12 tomorrow. And --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Not today though.
14 MR. GAY: -- we -- we urge you to -- to
15 pass the -- the --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
17 MR. GAY: -- proposal.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
19 There's a motion -- I believe there's a
20 motion and a second on --
21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: There is --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- on this item.
23 All in favor, say aye.
24 THE CABINET: Aye.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: The ayes have it.
3 We may see you back. We'll find out.
4 Thank you.
5 MR. STRUHS: And now we would return to our
6 last item, which is Item Number 2,
7 Gate Maritime Properties.
8 There are a number of speakers. We have
9 one, two, three, four, five -- seven speakers.
10 And if we gave them each --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think they've agreed to a
12 certain amount of time?
13 Colleen, what was the amount?
14 MR. STRUHS: Did we --
15 MS. CASTILLE: Twenty minutes per side.
16 MR. STRUHS: Twenty minutes. Okay.
17 What I'd like to do, just to speed things
18 up, Governor, is -- is to set the stage for you
19 in terms of what the actual decision is that
20 you face as the Board of Trustees.
21 And also for the benefit of our audience.
22 There are three different ways to look at
23 the proposal, which is to berth four Navy
24 vessels at Blount Island in the St. Johns
25 River.
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1 There are the local decisions as they
2 relate to zoning and land use. There are the
3 environmental regulatory issues as it relates
4 to water quality and the protection of
5 wildlife.
6 And finally, there's a very, very small
7 decision that is related to this inc-- that's
8 the Board of Trustees, which is to determine
9 that a lease of sovereign submerged lands is
10 not contrary to the public interest, and
11 recognizes and balances riparian interests and
12 access to the waterfront.
13 It's probably worth spending just 1 minute
14 reflecting on all three of these items.
15 As it relates to the local control, the
16 local zoning decisions for Blount Island, it
17 was in 1965 that Duval County designated
18 Blount Island as an industrial park complex.
19 Five years later, in 1970, the other half
20 of the island was identified as an area for a
21 joint venture to build floating nuclear plants.
22 And for many years, this island was visible all
23 the way from downtown Jacksonville with a very,
24 very large crane on it.
25 In 1973, Duval County approved their
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1 Comprehensive Plan. That plan designated the
2 island as a waterfront industrial area.
3 In 1990, the City of Jacksonville did their
4 Comprehensive Plan, they designated it as a
5 waterfront industrial land use.
6 So the -- the local land use
7 decision making is a 40-year record.
8 As it relates to the issues of protecting
9 water quality, protecting marine mammals, it's
10 important to note that our determination is
11 that there are no critical submerged resources
12 in the berthing area.
13 There would be little or -- there would be
14 little or no impact on aquatic vegetation, that
15 the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
16 has determined that this is fully consistent
17 with Duval County's Manatee Protection Plan.
18 And the wastewater that would be generated
19 from these vessels would all be off-loaded.
20 They would not be discharged into the river.
21 And, finally, there are conditions that
22 would be put into this permit that protects the
23 whale calving area, which is -- which is
24 offshore.
25 As it relates to the decision that you all
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1 have to make as Trustees, it's fairly -- fairly
2 narrow, which is to determine whether or not it
3 meets the test of not being contrary to public
4 interest, and recognizing the need to balance
5 these various riparian rights.
6 If you have questions of me, I'd be happy
7 to answer them. Otherwise we should probably
8 turn it over to the --
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a few quick --
10 MR. STRUHS: -- applicant --
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- questions to help me
12 set the --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- stage.
15 First, in terms of riparian rights and the
16 view, is there -- do we have any kind of
17 standards, you know, how far that view extends.
18 I mean, we -- we listened to riparian rights
19 and view, but how -- how -- how far --
20 MR. STRUHS: We don't -- we don't have
21 standards there, other than -- I'd say on a
22 case-by-case basis.
23 As -- as you look at riparian rights,
24 I think the most effective way to consider
25 riparian rights is a bundle of different
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1 rights.
2 And some of the sticks in that bundle are
3 of a higher value than others. If you talk
4 about riparian rights, for example, navigation
5 or access to the waterfront is a very, very
6 important right.
7 There are other rights that are also in
8 that bundle, but are obviously of less value,
9 such as views.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: Views.
11 MR. STRUHS: And -- and -- they're all in
12 that bundle, because they all have different
13 weights. And, of course, some people would
14 weight them differently. But that's why we
15 have a Board of Trustees.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just have three
17 questions.
18 MR. STRUHS: Sure.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: The second question.
20 There's a disagreement as to actually where
21 the channel lies. Can you give us your
22 perspective from -- from --
23 MR. STRUHS: Yes, I can. There are --
24 there are -- there are arguably two different
25 channels.
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1 There is the Coast Guard marked channel;
2 and then there is a natural hydrologic channel,
3 which is actually a little bit deeper.
4 The -- the nautical channel, the one that's
5 designated by the Coast Guard, would be to the
6 east.
7 The natural deeper channel is slightly to
8 the west, closer to Blount Island. Now, the
9 issue, of course, as the definition of riparian
10 rights is access to that channel for
11 navigation.
12 The point here I think is regardless of
13 which channel you want to use to determine
14 whether or not they have that access, the --
15 the Coast Guard determined one, which is closer
16 to the residents; or the deeper one, which is a
17 bit closer to the island, in any event, the
18 ships that are being berthed are to the west of
19 both of those channels.
20 So access to the channels, regardless of
21 which navigation you want to use, is not
22 impeded.
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: My third question, this
24 is the last question.
25 For the residents that are here, and --
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1 that -- that have questions about their rights,
2 they could not take this to court and have an
3 injunction or anything like this, because
4 there's no action that's been taken.
5 Today what you said before us is we have to
6 consider what -- we have the two standards to
7 consider. If, indeed, we -- we say this is the
8 law, and we approve this, then -- then the
9 residents then have that court action.
10 I mean, I'm asking what are the subsequent
11 actions that the residents would have in terms
12 of the --
13 MR. STRUHS: I'm not an attorney, but my
14 guess is that no court would hear the case
15 unless the -- assuming that it's approved --
16 that unless Gate Maritime actually got the
17 contract from the Navy.
18 There would be --
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: So --
20 MR. STRUHS: -- there would be no harm in
21 eliciting the contract --
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: The residents would have
23 recourse after this -- what -- what rights do
24 they have?
25 MR. STRUHS: I don't know. Let me ask our
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1 legal counsel.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: We'll get --
3 MR. STRUHS: This is Mr. Tom Beasch.
4 MR. BEASCH: Good morning.
5 The question being, what rights would the
6 residents have if there's approval of the
7 lease?
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Or subsequent challenge.
9 MR. BEASCH: They could -- they could bring
10 an action against Gate if they contended that
11 they had a common law riparian right that was
12 infringed.
13 Whether that would be sustained, I have my
14 doubts because our interpretation of the common
15 law riparian right view extends to the channel,
16 to the near side of the channel.
17 As you may know though, the Court's open to
18 anyone, so they could go in and make validation
19 and test it.
20 They've also -- have raised the question
21 whether they would bring a takings action
22 against the Board of Trustees.
23 Again, our defense would be, whatever
24 rights they have, terminated at the near side
25 of the channel.
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1 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I have some
2 questions, Governor.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you want to -- you want
4 to ask questions before the --
5 MR. STRUHS: Let me --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- minutes and --
7 MR. STRUHS: I --
8 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: No. Okay. Well, I
9 can wait -- I can wait. Just while they were
10 up there --
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: I --
12 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I wanted to find out
13 something about the -- the rights and the
14 environmental aspect --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Go ahead. Ask the
16 question.
17 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Because if -- I need
18 to know, is there any reduction of the
19 environmental quality of the area having these
20 ships docked there that -- to plant or animal
21 species in that -- I need to know that from --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, you'll probably hear
23 from both of sides on that -- on that subject.
24 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Well, I -- I was
25 looking for the agency to -- that's responsible
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1 for those types of things. And so that's it.
2 And -- and also there is no reduction of
3 the right of the individuals to -- to go to
4 that channel and move their boats in and out.
5 And I guess from the military, I'm going to
6 need to know, is there any time that that would
7 be shut off, their right to -- to acquire their
8 ability to get in the water shut off at any
9 time for any reason by the military.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's a good question.
11 MR. STRUHS: Good questions, and I'm sure
12 that the applicant can answer that.
13 While -- while we -- while we invite the
14 guests up here, I would remind them that
15 cumulatively, we'd like to keep this to -- to
16 about 20 minutes. So you can divide that time
17 up amongst yourselves.
18 Also, if you would please make a point of
19 signing the -- the pad of paper so that we can
20 record it.
21 And, finally, I -- I was negligent in not
22 pointing out that we also did receive I believe
23 just yesterday -- or two days ago a letter from
24 Mayor Delaney, mayor of Jacksonville in support
25 of this agenda item.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: If I could ask you guys
2 to -- I know what's going to happen here.
3 If -- if we -- if you could get -- keep
4 your emotions in check, you guy-- as I
5 understand, you have very able spokespeople
6 representing your behalf, and we are here to
7 listen.
8 And as we go forward, if we could just be
9 respectful of people when they speak, I'd be
10 grateful.
11 MR. STRUHS: And actually the way this
12 lined up, Governor, is Ms. Marcia Tjoflat, who
13 is the attorney for Gate Maritime, is first on
14 the list.
15 And then just so everybody can cue up,
16 Mr. Hardesty, Mr. Devereaux, Mr. Forbess,
17 Ms. Plewniac, Mr. Lankford, and then Mr. Smith.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: And if we can allow --
19 if -- unless, of course, any time anybody wants
20 to ask a question, that's fine.
21 But if we could allow everybody to speak,
22 and then maybe open it up for questions
23 afterwards, unless the -- there's a big huge
24 urge, that'd be good.
25 MS. TJOFLAT: Thank you.
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1 My name is Marcia Tjoflat, and I'm here
2 today representing Gate Maritime Properties.
3 I wanted to recognize Captain Don Lewis,
4 who's retired from the Coast Guard. He's the
5 former Coast Guard captain of the port in
6 Jacksonville. And he's the Executive Director
7 of the Jacksonville Marine Transportation
8 Exchange.
9 I believe you've received letters from them
10 in -- Jacksonville Marine Transportation
11 Exchange. It's a maritime trade organization.
12 And they've written a letter in support.
13 As have the Propeller Club, the First Coast
14 Manufacturer's Association, and the
15 Goodrich Corporation.
16 I had a presentation, but I'm -- we're --
17 in the essence of trying to get you out of here
18 on time, I'd just like to read excerpts from
19 the Mayor's letter. I know that the letter
20 came in this morning, and you probably haven't
21 had an opportunity to read it.
22 And I believe it summarizes everything I
23 wanted to say.
24 Dear Governor Bush and Cabinet members.
25 This letter responds to a request from the
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1 Governor's office for my position regarding the
2 application by Gate Maritime Properties for a
3 submerged land lease, easement, and
4 authorization to dredge at Blount Island.
5 Approval of the application would enable
6 the construction of two light traffic piers to
7 compete for a Department of Defense contract.
8 I'm -- I'm going to skip to the salient
9 points.
10 Developing and expanding the Marine's
11 presence at Blount Island has been an objective
12 for several mayors and members of our
13 Congressional delegation, including
14 Charles Bennett, Tillie Fowler, and
15 Corrine Brown, and Ander Crehshaw.
16 As you know, there is a strong likelihood
17 that the Federal government will seek to
18 realign or reduce military infrastructure in
19 the near future. The Blount Island command is
20 one of several military facilities in
21 Jacksonville that will be scrutinized in that
22 process.
23 The proposed project would strengthen
24 Blount Island against a military downsizing
25 scenario, with concurrent job losses.
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1 Conversely, failure to approve the lease
2 could signal wavering community support for the
3 military presence in Jacksonville.
4 And I'd like to add as a note that with
5 regard to Blount Island, the military is -- is
6 a huge presence for Jacksonville's economy.
7 The U.S. Marine Corps has a lease for a
8 large portion of the Blount Island facility,
9 and the Marine Corps estimates that they
10 provide 400 million dollars a year in economic
11 benefit -- direct economic benefit to the City
12 of Jacksonville.
13 Gate Maritime itself has spent literally
14 tens of millions of dollars on infrastructure
15 for Blount Island, and pays a million dollars a
16 year in property taxes.
17 With regard to the residential impact, I
18 appreciate the concerns raised by nearby
19 residents and homeowners. I trust that the
20 Marines and Gate will work to make the
21 residential impact as small as possible.
22 Nonetheless, this area has been the site
23 for industrial development for nearly
24 four decades. The proposal to continue
25 developing the area as industrial waterfront
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1 should come as a surprise to no one.
2 In 1965, Duval County voters approved by a
3 3 to 1 margin a 25 million dollar general
4 obligation bond issued to build new port
5 facilities, including making Blount Island a
6 port industrial complex on the western half of
7 the island.
8 The proposal is consistent with the local
9 Comprehensive Plan in the long -- the long-time
10 goal of developing Blount Island as an
11 industrial area.
12 We have a copy of the 1973
13 Comprehensive Plan, and then the 1990
14 Comprehensive Plan, both of which show this --
15 this area as port facilities. It's -- it's --
16 it's the type of thoughtful planning and growth
17 management that -- that we believe that the --
18 the Legislature and -- and y'all have been
19 trying to encourage.
20 In addition to that, the Port Authority,
21 the City of Jacksonville, the State, the
22 Federal government, and Gate has spent millions
23 and millions of dollars bringing infrastructure
24 of roads, railroads, pipelines to Blount Island
25 to -- to let it serve as a port facility.
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1 Continuing in the letter: The City of
2 Jacksonville is also particularly interested in
3 protecting our natural resources. In this
4 regard, the proposed lease has met applicable
5 requirements.
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Cabinet
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