THE
CABINET
STATE OF FLORIDA
_____________________________________________________
Representing:
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Wednesday,
December 11, 2002, commencing at approximately
9:14 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT COX
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
TALLAHASSEE COURT REPORTING, INC.
6753 Thomasville Road
Tallahassee, Florida 32312
1.888.224.3484
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2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
CHARLES H. BRONSON
Commissioner of Agriculture
ROBERT F. MILLIGAN
Comptroller
JIM SMITH
Secretary of State
RICHARD E. DORAN
Attorney General
TOM GALLAGHER
Treasurer
CHARLIE CRIST
Commissioner of Education
* * *
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December 11, 2002
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director)
1 Approved 5
2 Approved 6
3 Presentation -
For Information Only 6
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
(Presented by James A. Zingale, Ph.D.,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 43
2 Approved and Deferred 45
3 Approved 49
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Robin Safley,
Chief of Staff)
1 Withdrawn 50
2 Discussion 50
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December 11, 2002
I N D E X
(Continued)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
(Presented by David B. Struhs,
Secretary)
1 Approved 112
2 Approved 113
Substitute 3 Approved 116
Substitute 4 Approved 117
5 Approved 117
Substitute 6 Approved 118
7 Approved 143
Substitute 8 Denied 144
9 Approved 147
Substitute 10 Approved 147
Substitute 11 Approved 148
12 Approved 152
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Lee Baldwin,
Investment Communications Manager)
1 Approved 163
2 Approved 163
3 Approved 164
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 166
* * *
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December 11, 2002
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The
agenda items commenced at 9:51 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR
BUSH: The next Cabinet meeting
4 will
be held Tuesday; January 28th, 2003.
5 Division
of Bond Finance.
6 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Motion on the
7 minutes.
8 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
10 Without
objection, the item passes.
11 Item
2.
12 Ben,
how are you doing?
13 MR.
WATKINS: Just fine, Governor.
14 Good
morning, Governor.
15 Item
2 is a report of award on the
16 competitive
sale of twelve million seven
17 hundred
thousand dollars in parking facility
18 revenue
bonds for the University of
19 South
Florida. The bonds were sold and awarded
20 on
November 21st, and awarded to the low bidder
21 at
a true interest cost rate of approximately
22 4.4
percent.
23 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Is there a motion?
24 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Motion.
25 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without
objection, the item passes.
3 MR.
WATKINS: Item Number 3, Governor, is a
4 presentation
on the annual update of the
5 State's
Debt Affordability Study.
6 Unfortunately,
we're back to the mundane
7 business,
and this is our -- our annual dose of
8 debt,
so to speak.
9 So
with permission, I'd like to go through
10 the
highlights of the financial information
11 regarding
the State's debt position.
12 The
debt affordability analysis was
13 originally
prepared in 1999 at your suggestion,
14 and
the methodology was adopted by this Board
15 as
policy.
16 Subsequently,
the Legislature has endorsed
17 this
methodology by adopting a statute that
18 requires
the debt affordability study to be
19 updated
on an annual basis, designating a
20 benchmark
debt ratio of debt service to
21 revenues;
establishing a target of 6 percent;
22 and
a cap of 7 percent.
23 The
statute also requires that the analysis
24 be
delivered to the Senate President, the
25 Speaker
of the House, and the chairs of the
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1 respective appropriations committee.
2 This
report will be completed this week,
3 and
delivered to the leadership. And the
4 presentation
today simply summarizes and
5 highlights
the information that will be
6 contained
in that report.
7 The
debt -- debt affordability analysis is
8 an
analytical approach to evaluating the
9 State's
debt position, and is designed to
10 provide
information regarding the long-term
11 financial
consequences of borrowing decisions.
12 Most
fundamentally, it is a financial model
13 used
to calculate what our future bonding
14 capacity
is, based on two variables: The first
15 is
the amount of debt that we have outstanding,
16 and
what our annual obligations are to repay
17 that
debt; and the second variable is the
18 amount
of revenues that we have available to
19 pay
that debt with.
20 The
purpose of this exercise is to provide
21 a
framework for measuring, monitoring, and
22 managing
the State's debt. And how it's used
23 from
a practical standpoint is to be able to
24 provide
information to the Legislature on any
25 specific
financing proposal, as well as
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1 updating the information on an annual basis for
2 the
best information we have available to them,
3 to
assist them in formulating the State's
4 capital
spending plan.
5 What
I'd like to do is go over very briefly
6 the
methodology involved in the update -- the
7 annual
update of the debt affordability
8 analysis.
9 The
process for updating the analysis
10 involves
calculating the -- the total amount of
11 debt
that the State has outstanding; evaluating
12 the
growth in the debt over the last year, and
13 the
growth in our annual debt service
14 obligations;
calculating what our debt ratios
15 are;
comparing our debt ratios to the national
16 averages;
comparing our debt ratios to our
17 peer
group.
18 And
then the essence of the update is to
19 revise,
based -- revise the information based
20 on
the most current information we have
21 available.
And that is done by updating the
22 projections
for expected future debt issuance
23 over
the next ten years, as well as our
24 expectation
on the revenues that we will have
25 available
to pay that.
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1 Then we recalculate the benchmark debt
2 ratio
based on the most current information,
3 and
we compare ourselves to our 6 percent
4 target,
and then we calculate the amount of
5 avail--
unused capacity within the 6 percent
6 target,
and the 7 percent cap that has been
7 established
by policy.
8 The
State debt outstanding by program, this
9 next
graphic, is simply to show you the State
10 debt
outstanding by program. It gives a
11 picture
of programmatically how we've used our
12 debt,
and what programmatic areas have been
13 funded
with debt. The State now has
14 outstanding
19.2 billion dollars of total debt.
15 And
a little over half of that debt,
16 56
percent, relates to funding education
17 facilities.
18 A
little over a quarter of that debt
19 relates
to transportation facilities, primarily
20 toll
roads; and about 15 percent of that debt
21 relates
to buying environmental lands through
22 Preservation
2000 and Florida Forever.
23 And
this is a fairly static picture. It
24 really
doesn't change much year-to-year. It
25 just
changes incrementally based on what we've
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1 done over the last year.
2 In
evaluating our debt position, it's
3 important
to have a longer term perspective
4 about
where we -- where we come from in order
5 to
evaluate trends.
6 And
that's why we look at a -- the growth
7 in
the debt outstanding for the State over a
8 ten-year
period.
9 And
what -- what we can see from this is
10 that
-- that the total amount of debt that the
11 State
has outstanding has more than doubled
12 over
the last ten years, from about
13 8.3
billion, up to the 19.2 billion that we
14 currently
have outstanding.
15 And
over the last year, our debt has
16 increased
from 18.3 billion to 19.2 billion, or
17 approximately
955 million, which is consistent
18 with
prior year-over-year increases over the
19 prior
ten-year period.
20 And
about 80 percent of that increase
21 relates
to financing education facilities
22 through
the sale of PECO bonds and lottery
23 revenue
bonds.
24 The
next thing we look at is what impact
25 the
increase in the debt has on our annual
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1 payment obligation.
2 And
this is very important from a budgetary
3 perspective,
simply because it measures how
4 much
of the State's budget is devoted to paying
5 off
our existing debt before having the
6 financial
flexibility to provide for other
7 essential
government services.
8 And
-- and what we see over the last
9 ten
years is that our annual debt obligation
10 has
tripled, and is now approximately
11 1.4
billion dollars.
12 So
when you stop and think about that,
13 that's
1.4 billion dollars each and every year
14 for
the foreseeable future because of our
15 policy
regarding our level debt structure.
16 So
any additional debt simply adds to that
17 1.4
billion dollars, and it's essentially a
18 measure
of our budgetary flexibility.
19 The
next thing we do is to calculate
20 Florida's
debt ratios, and compare them with
21 national
averages in a ten-state peer group.
22 There
are three standard measures within
23 the
municipal finance industry that analysts
24 look
at. One is debt service to -- to the
25 revenues,
and that's our benchmark debt ratio.
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1 But they also use debt per capita, which is
2 debt
per person; and debt to personal income
3 is
-- is other measures of affordability.
4 The
absolute levels are not particularly
5 meaningful
without a basis for comparison. So
6 the
comparison that we use is -- is to look at
7 our
debt ratios compared to national averages
8 to
get a picture from -- from a macro
9 perspective.
10 And
what you can see is generally that
11 Florida's
debt burden is higher than the
12 national
averages. And to get a better picture
13 of
how Florida compares with other states, we
14 look
at our debt ratio compared to our
15 peer
group, which consists of the ten largest
16 states.
17 What
that shows us is with respect to the
18 benchmark
debt ratio of debt service to
19 revenues,
Florida is second highest -- only
20 second
to New York, which is the highest.
21 And
compared with last year, we've moved up
22 from
third to second in that particular
23 category.
24 Debt
per capita, we're fourth. We're down
25 one
place. Illinois has a higher debt
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1 per capita number.
2 And
then we're third with respect to debt
3 as
a percentage of personal income.
4 Debt
affordability is important to the
5 rating
agencies, but really is only one factor
6 that
the rating agencies use in evaluating the
7 State's
debt position.
8 The
other factors are economic factors,
9 financial
factors, and management factors,
10 which
all come into play in the rating agency's
11 evaluation
of the state.
12 Although
we were placed on -- over the last
13 year,
we were placed on negative outlook, along
14 with
13 other states by one rating agency
15 because
of the perceived vulnerability because
16 of
our tourist-based economy and the events of
17 9-11,
we were subsequently removed from
18 negative
outlook and placed on stable -- with
19 stable
outlook in July.
20 So
--
21 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Can you tell us what the --
22 the
other states on the -- on this top
23 ten
list, our peers, what -- what their --
24 whether
they were stable, or whatever the
25 negative
-- was it negative outlook, is that
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1 what it's called?
2 MR.
WATKINS: Negative outlook.
3 And
it was primarily the states with
4 tourist-based
economies, Governor: California
5 was
included, New York was included, Michigan
6 was
included.
7 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, those aren't
8 tourist
-- the -- the reason they were -- they
9 were
-- they were put on the list was because
10 they
-- they had expenses heading north, and
11 revenues
heading south, right?
12 MR.
WATKINS: Right.
13 And
we're -- in looking at the three
14 factors,
Governor, and going to what you're
15 talking
about, we -- we have been fairly
16 fortunate
in that our economy has been fairly
17 resilient,
more resilient than most other
18 states.
19 But
I think even more importantly to that,
20 from
a rating perspective, and from a financial
21 management
perspective is the very -- is the --
22 is
the very timely way in which the Legislature
23 and
leadership addressed the revenue shortfall
24 expected
last year, and the manner in which
25 they
dealt with it by cutting the budget.
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1 And by balancing the budget very early
2 on
-- that was in November, December last
3 year
-- that followed two Revenue Estimating
4 Conferences,
one immediately -- was
5 September
13th, I believe, two days after
6 9-11
-- because we had a slowing national
7 economy,
and they convened a Revenue Estimating
8 Conference.
9 Then
they met again in October to evaluate
10 the
events of 9-- more importantly, the events
11 of
9-11, and they made further revenue --
12 predictions
of lower revenue estimates.
13 So
the -- the aggregate of all that was a
14 billion
three. It was 6.6 percent of our
15 state's
general fund budget. And the -- the
16 Legislature,
you called them into special
17 session
two or three different times, I can't
18 recall
which, and they add-- they addressed
19 that
expected budget shortfall through cutting
20 spending,
deferring some tax relief, and -- and
21 moving
some money from trust funds.
22 So
we dealt with the problem very, very
23 early
on. And what a lot of the states are
24 experiencing
now, Governor, is they took the
25 ostrich
approach, and they've stook (sic) their
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1 head in the sand, and now their -- their worst
2 fears
have been realized in the sense that the
3 revenues
are not coming in like they thought
4 they
would.
5 Another
very important factor to point out
6 in
connection with that is we haven't utilized
7 our
budget stabilization fund. We did not tap
8 the
900-plus million dollars in the budget
9 stabilization
fund in -- in -- in balancing the
10 State's
budget last year.
11 So
for -- we are in -- vis-a-vis other
12 states,
we are in a very -- we're in as good a
13 possible
position as we can possibly be in, and
14 in
a much better position than other states.
15 And
-- and that was reflected in -- in the
16 rating
agency taking us off of negative
17 outlook,
and replacing us on stable. That
18 is
-- that is largely the reason they did that,
19 is
because of the very responsible way in which
20 this
-- the -- the economic downturn was dealt
21 with.
22 Now
that we've completed the look back in
23 terms
of where we were and what our debt
24 burdens
are, we start the process of looking
25 forward
to some of the internal challenges
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1 facing the State.
2 And
the way that we do that is by looking
3 at
what our expected debt issuance is over the
4 next
ten years for our existing bond programs.
5 And
what this shows us is that we expect
6 over
the next ten years, under the programs
7 currently
authorized in law, to issue
8 approximately
11 billion dollars in additional
9 debt.
10 And
that's 1.4 billion dollars more than
11 the
same period in the prior year.
12 The
increases are due primarily to
13 additional
spending in education for PECO,
14 800
million dollars in additional financing for
15 advance
purchase of right-of-way.
16 And
-- because of a statutory change in the
17 amount
that they could devote out of the state
18 transportation
trust fund to that program. And
19 800
million dollars for Everglades
20 restoration
--
21 GOVERNOR
BUSH: That's the one that was --
22 MR.
WATKINS: -- which was not your
23 proposal,
and --
24 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, it's not an
25 obligation.
It's just it's a -- it's a -- it's
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1 an authorization.
2 MR.
WATKINS: Correct.
3 This
is -- this is sort of our best
4 picture,
Governor, of what the expectations
5 are.
6 But
your point is well made, and that is
7 that
each and every year, the Legislature has
8 to
revisit this, and has to authorize that debt
9 to
be done. They didn't authorize it last
10 year,
and it automatically happens.
11 They
have to, through the Appropriations
12 Act,
take affirmative action. And so decisions
13 that
were made with regard to how to pay for
14 things
can be revisited, and can be adjusted.
15 But
this is sort of our best guess based on
16 the
facts today about the debt that we expect
17 to
incur.
18 The
last one is -- is Everglades
19 restoration.
20 Two
other things that aren't self-evident
21 from
this that -- that I wanted to point out,
22 and
that is that we've completed the lottery
23 revenue
bond program now. So we sold the last
24 piece,
which was the twelfth installment for
25 the
lottery revenue bond program. It was a
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1 243 million dollar issue. It will re-- be
2 reported
on the next Cabinet meeting.
3 That
completes our funding commitment of
4 two-and-a-half
billion dollars for school
5 construction
over the last five years.
6 So
that is a -- a significant event in the
7 sense
that we had successfully completed the
8 implementation
of -- of substantial new funding
9 for
school construction.
10 And
also we've converted Florida Forever,
11 the
environmental land buying program, to a
12 more
efficient model, and we're borrowing now
13 based
on expected cash needs, rather than
14 300
million dollars a year whether we need it
15 or
not.
16 So
those two things occur in those ten-year
17 projections
as well.
18 The
next step in the analysis is to project
19 the
benchmark debt ratio based on the most
20 current
information.
21 This
takes into account our existing -- our
22 obligations
for debt service on our existing
23 19.2
billion dollars of debt, plus the expected
24 debt
service on the 11 billion to be --
25 expected
to be issued over the next ten years,
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1 and the current revenue estimates that were
2 promulgated
in November.
3 So
we're working with the most current
4 information
that we have available in providing
5 these
numbers.
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Ben, how -- how far out do
7 we
go with revenue estimation numbers? They --
8 they
take it out ten years?
9 MR.
WATKINS: They really look closely,
10 Governor,
at -- at -- at two years. Those are
11 the
short run estimates. But they do provide
12 long
run estimates for ten years.
13 But
they tend to be fairly linear. In
14 other
words, they assume a growth rate. And
15 you
can take the edge of a straightedge ruler,
16 and
-- and draw it out, and we know that's not
17 reality,
but it's sort of the best information
18 that
we have.
19 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, so when you measure
20 it
-- when you make an adjustment during slower
21 economic
times, and you -- you then take that
22 lower
growth rate, which has occurred over the
23 last
couple of years, and you project out over
24 ten
years, it'll have an impact on -- it --
25 it
-- it helps -- it helps generate that --
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1 whatever color, mauve or purple, line over the
2 red
line.
3 MR.
WATKINS: Right.
4 That
--
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Just checking.
6 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Governor?
7 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Yeah.
8 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: The -- Ben, as --
9 you
-- you had indicated that over the next
10 ten
years, it'd be around 11 billion. But now,
11 does
that take in account the constitutional
12 issues
that are sitting on there?
13 Now,
if I've added them up right, it's
14 around
11 billion dollars voted by the people
15 of
the state for two major issues: Schools and
16 a
rail system of some type.
17 Does
that take into account any of this at
18 all?
19 GOVERNOR
BUSH: That's the spending side.
20 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Well, I --
21 MR.
WATKINS: No --
22 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: -- I -- I
23 understand.
24 But
I -- I -- it's got to be paid for
25 somehow,
and I'm -- I'm thinking that if that
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1 all takes place, that that debt ratio and
2 everything
would be a little higher than the
3 11
billion over ten years that --
4 MR.
WATKINS: Right.
5 That
--
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Yeah, welcome to my world.
7 MR.
WATKINS: You're absolutely right,
8 Commissioner.
9 And
it does -- the -- the -- the major
10 point
to take away from this is it does not
11 take
into account --
12 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Okay. That's what I
13 thought.
14 MR.
WATKINS: -- any debt issuance to fund
15 class
size reduction or high speed rail.
16 As
those -- as the plans are formulated and
17 floated
legislatively, we'll be asked to run
18 the
numbers, and then -- and that -- that's
19 basically
what we do. We run the numbers to
20 evaluate
what the estimated impact is on our
21 debt
ratio, and provide that information to the
22 Legislature.
23 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Now -- because there's some
24 scribbling
going on, I want to make sure
25 that
-- that they know that --
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1 It's not scribbling actually, it's
2 well
written prose.
3 But
the -- we have asked for an initial
4 run,
based on our proposal that we'll submit to
5 the
Legislature for funding additional capital
6 outlay
dollars to comply with the Amendment IX
7 proposal
using the communication tax dollars.
8 And
I believe that based on these
9 assumptions,
and based on adding that, that
10 we're
still below the 7 percent cap. Not by
11 much,
but we're still below it.
12 MR.
WATKINS: Correct.
13 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you.
14 I
appreciate you saying it.
15 The
other -- the other issue that I --
16 that
-- that is something that I think is worth
17 noting
is that we have a significant sum of
18 money
that is not general revenue. But during
19 tougher
times, we sweep up as though it was.
20 And
we've reserved our trust funds to the
21 tune
of 7 or 5 percent, I forgot which --
22 I
think it's 7 percent --
23 ATTORNEY
GENERAL DORAN: Seven.
24 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- and it generates a -- a
25 significant
sum of money -- it's not the most
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1 effective -- in fact, it's the -- it's not a
2 good
way of -- of -- of budgeting.
3 But
there are -- there are -- there are --
4 there
are -- there is money available that,
5 in
essence, is general revenue.
6 But
one of the things that I hope that
7 we'll
be able to do that -- to help with this,
8 and
just help with good -- good government is
9 to
eliminate trust funds, and put more money
10 back
into general revenue.
11 And
last week when I went up to New York
12 and
visited with the bonds folks, they seemed
13 to
like that idea more than almost anything
14 else.
15 They
want free money that can be used to
16 meet
the obligations of the state. And the --
17 the
more we tie down things through
18 trust
funds, the less likely it is that our --
19 that
the -- the bonding agencies, the credit
20 agencies
appreciate the State's credit
21 worthiness.
22 Is
that accurate?
23 I
was -- I was surprised at how important
24 that
seemed to be.
25 MR.
WATKINS: Well, I --
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December 11, 2002
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: And pleased I'm -- because
2 I
-- we're going to propose and pursue that
3 idea.
4 MR.
WATKINS: The -- Florida is different
5 than
a lot of other states because of our
6 organic
makeup and the trust funds that we
7 utilize.
It's extensive throughout the state.
8 And,
in effect, what that does, especially
9 during
difficult times, it creates
10 inefficiencies
by capturing money for a
11 specific
purpose when that may not be where the
12 money
is needed.
13 And
so to the extent that those balances,
14 and
they're significant, Governor, and --
15 and
-- and we -- we've never really gotten due
16 credit
from the agencies in terms of our
17 reserves,
because at -- you know, we
18 calculated,
based on the budget stabilization
19 fund
and the working capital fund, because
20 those
are monies that are generally available
21 to
address general government services.
22 And
we never really get into -- we
23 calculate
the trust funds, and we show them
24 what
the balance is, and we try to get credit
25 for
it, but they say, oh, that's dedicated for
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December 11, 2002
1 a particular purpose, you can't count that.
2 But
when you do count that, there are
3 significant
State resources, multiple billions
4 of
dollars in embedded trust fund balances that
5 are
sitting there.
6 And
so when you -- when you run into
7 difficult
economic times, budgetarily, it's a
8 real
challenge --
9 (Commissioner
Crist exited the room.)
10 MR.
WATKINS: -- when you have that money
11 off
the table, so to speak.
12 So
it does provide a lot of budgetary
13 flexi--
more budgetary flexibility eliminating
14 the
trust funds, and allowing the monies to be
15 used
for other essential services when you're
16 facing
the challenges like we do in this
17 growing
state.
18 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Yeah.
19 MR.
WATKINS: So they do view it positively
20 is
just -- is the long-winded answer to a
21 simple
question.
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Commissioner.
23 MR.
WATKINS: It does help.
24 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Now, they come from
25 different
places some other people may come
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December 11, 2002
1 from, and that is, they want to see a higher
2 cash
flow available to pay off bonds. And so
3 all
they care about is how easy is it for the
4 State
to have money to pay bonds.
5 One
of the reasons that the -- in my
6 opinion,
that the State is in as good a shape
7 as
it is today, and has the high ratings it
8 has,
and everything else, is because we've been
9 real
conservative in how much money's been
10 there
to pay bonds, and been conservative on
11 the
issue of bonds. And the trust funds have
12 probably
kept us that way.
13 So
there's the other side of the story I
14 think.
15 MR.
WATKINS: Well --
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Spoken like a guy that has
17 a
lot of trust funds.
18 MR.
WATKINS: Well, the ironic part about
19 this,
there -- there is merit to -- in -- in
20 what
he's saying, Governor, and -- and
21 here's
--
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Of course.
23 MR.
WATKINS: -- how it works.
24 Ironically
our strengths are our weaknesses
25 as
well. And what I mean by that is from a
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December 11, 2002
1 budgetary standpoint, the trust funds create
2 impediments
to being able to move money around,
3 and
to -- and move it and use it how you think
4 it
ought to be used most effectively.
5 On
the other hand, a lot of our bond
6 programs
are secured by a revenue stream that
7 flows
through a trust fund. So it's dedicated
8 for
a specific purpose, and it can't be
9 diverted
for other purposes.
10 So
states like California and Georgia who
11 pay
debt service out of their general revenues,
12 when
they run into difficult economic times,
13 it's
a -- a -- makes it -- exacerbates the
14 problem
--
15 GOVERNOR
BUSH: That's --
16 MR.
WATKINS: -- in the sense that at the
17 same
time your revenues -- or general revenue
18 are
going south, you've got a fixed commitment
19 that
you have to pay out of that.
20 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Absolutely.
21 So
if you take those -- that -- those trust
22 funds,
those dedicated sources of money to pay
23 debt
service out of the picture, we still have
24 a
lot of trust fund dollars --
25 MR.
WATKINS: Right.
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December 11, 2002
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- and we use them during
2 tough
times, and we don't get credit for them.
3 Commissioner
Gallagher's point is a good
4 one
as well as it relates to spending. If it
5 was
freer to -- to -- more available, it'd
6 probably
be -- it -- you know, it would more --
7 well,
that's -- but that's why we have the --
8 the
balance -- you know, power here, and the
9 Executive
has a chance to give their opinion on
10 this
as well.
11 And
-- and it -- you know, constraining
12 spending
is the best way to improve credit
13 worthiness.
I mean -- and that's a change in
14 attitude
I think that -- that you look at
15 New
Jersey, these states that -- that have all
16 sorts
of funding sources, all sorts of tax
17 sources.
18 Their
-- their -- their bond ratings are
19 going
down, ours are -- actually the
20 marketplace
prices are bonds at a lower -- at a
21 better
rate than the bonding agencies give us
22 credit
for, because I think there's a new --
23 not
completely change, but there's a
24 beginning
-- there's a movement towards
25 recognizing
that constraining spending and
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December 11, 2002
1 limiting government has -- has a virtue to it
2 as
it relates to credit worthiness.
3 MR.
WATKINS: Right.
4 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: And trust funds help
5 that
limitation.
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: To a certain extent.
7 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Governor, the one
8 thing
that I -- this is a two-edge sword here,
9 and
-- and from your standpoint as Governor,
10 and
trying to work these issues out, I
11 understand
wanting to consolidate those trust
12 funds
and so forth.
13 However,
I -- you know, there is one thing
14 that
comes back to mind, having served in the
15 Legislature
myself, and argued over trust funds
16 many
times, and that is, many of these
17 trust
funds were agreed to by industries and
18 so
forth who were putting money aside for
19 emergency
situations for later, and -- and,
20 therefore,
they were putting them aside
21 themselves,
or -- or at least with the behest
22 of
the various agencies and so forth to cover
23 those
potential emergencies.
24 And
-- and now that whole idea would --
25 would
have to be reconfigured and --
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December 11, 2002
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
2 Anybody
else want to defend their trust
3 funds
before we -- I mean, those are good
4 points,
and that's -- many of these -- these
5 are
legitimate reasons why these trust funds
6 have
been set up.
7 But
from a cat-- from a budgeting and
8 management
prospect, this -- this is not how
9 you
would -- I mean, if you -- if -- if you
10 closed
your eyes and assumed that this was not
11 a
-- a government, but it was an enterprise --
12 we'll
decide whether it's public or private --
13 revenue's
revenue, expenses are expenses, and
14 you
prioritize and you reserve and you save,
15 and
you -- you -- you -- you manage your --
16 your
-- your cash in a way that -- that focuses
17 on
the priorities.
18 And
those priorities change over time, and
19 trust
funds limit our ability to -- to adjust
20 and
adapt. And that's theory.
21 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: That's --
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Practicality of all this
23 though
comes into play just by the fact that
24 y'all's
radar went up, I -- I noticed.
25 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Well, and -- and
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December 11, 2002
1 that's one of the reasons they were set up,
2 to
-- to control some of that.
3 GOVERNOR
BUSH: I got you.
4 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: I'm -- I'm not going
5 to
defend the trust fund business, Governor,
6 but,
you know, the -- the 6 percent and the
7 7
percent are really quite arbitrary
8 percentages
that are lines that have been
9 drawn.
10 And,
you know, to get the idea that because
11 we're
not getting to the 7 percent, we have
12 some
sort of debt capacity, and, therefore, we
13 can
go off and rush off and do that.
14 I
know you know you can't do that, because
15 of
the revenue problem. I mean, there is just
16 so
much discretionary funds that you have to
17 handle
that increased debt capacity. And if
18 you
don't have it -- you don't have the
19 revenue,
and the -- and the discretionary
20 funds,
you really can't move toward that
21 7
percent.
22 So
it is -- it is a revenue obviously,
23 and
-- and -- and debt capacity question.
24 And
-- and obviously you're looking for some
25 revenue
by going after the trust funds to -- to
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December 11, 2002
1 help you get that revenue so you can increase
2 your
capacity.
3 But
it is -- we -- we have to be careful
4 with
it. Don't get the impression that that
5 line
of 7 percent is a magic line, because it
6 is
not a magic line --
7 GOVERNOR
BUSH: It's just --
8 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: -- and it's --
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- statutorily imposed now,
10 so
it's kind of a --
11 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Worse than that
12 magic.
13 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Well, it's worse
14 in
--
15 GOVERNOR
BUSH: It's arbitrary. It's
16 definitely
arbitrary. But it's also --
17 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Some --
18 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- as statutes are, I
19 assume
that that's a --
20 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Statutorily
21 arbitrary.
22 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Yeah.
23 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Statutorily arbitrary.
24 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: But they'll look at
25 it
and say, well, we have this capacity because
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December 11, 2002
1 we're not at the 7 percent --
2 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Yeah.
3 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: -- but there's a lot
4 more
to it than -- than just drawing that line.
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Absolutely.
6 MR.
WATKINS: Governor, I would -- I always
7 bristle
at "arbitrary."
8 The
-- but the way that I -- the way that I
9 view
it is, it -- it is subjective, I will
10 concede
that. Arbitrary sort of implies that
11 we
picked it out of the air, that we really
12 didn't
think about, you know, where we're going
13 to
put it, and -- and why we established it
14 there.
15 So
subjective is fair arbitrary --
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Statutorily subjective.
17 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Ben and I have had
18 this
discussion many times --
19 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: The Legislature did
20 it
with reason, they didn't just pick it out of
21 the
air.
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, they did it because
23 Ben
suggested it.
24 I
mean, the truth be known, this was our
25 policy
that -- that we went to them and said,
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December 11, 2002
1 buy into it.
2 So
it -- it's subjective, but it's
3 subjective
based on a really talented guy.
4 I
might add, when I went up to the credit
5 agency
meeting, one of the people there --
6 obviously
a friend of Ben's -- spoke glowingly
7 of
-- of his management of a really complex,
8 sophisticated
part of State government, and
9 everybody
in the room nodded their head.
10 And
I just wanted --
11 (Commissioner
Crist entered the room.)
12 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- you to know that you're
13 appreciated,
not only by this Cabinet, but also
14 by
the people that watch what we do.
15 MR.
WATKINS: Thank you, Governor.
16 That
-- that compliment cost me dearly.
17 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: But I'm sure. Lunch
18 in
New York is a lot of money.
19 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Come down for Sonny's, you
20 can
invite them down here.
21 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: The -- the other --
22 the
other thing that's interesting, and,
23 you
know, Ben does a wonderful job, is that our
24 structure
requires us to have that division,
25 and
that, with very few exceptions, all debt
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December 11, 2002
1 and bonding runs through there to make sure
2 that
it's done right and the cash flow's right,
3 and
all the other things.
4 So
it's a -- it's sort of the good
5 leadership
of a good system.
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Can I mention one other
7 thing
--
8 MR.
WATKINS: Yes, sir.
9 (Commissioner
Bronson exited the room.)
10 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- about this meeting that
11 I
-- that I pointed out that they -- they
12 seemed
to appreciate as well.
13 I
asked about the level of local debt,
14 because
that -- that has an impact on this
15 indirectly.
16 There's
some kind -- sometimes I think in
17 the
minds of people, there's an implied
18 obligation
of the State irresp-- beyond
19 these
-- this debt, that somehow we are --
20 you
know, that if a city goes under, or a -- a
21 bridge
authority doesn't do its job properly,
22 that
-- that somehow we have an obligation.
23 And
I pointed out to them that -- that I
24 vetoed
a bailout of a -- of one of our bridge
25 authorities
revenue source, and they liked
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December 11, 2002
1 that, too.
2 They
liked the fact that the State is
3 committed
as a policy to distinguish between
4 the
full faith and credit of the state of
5 Florida,
and others.
6 Let
the -- let the insurance companies that
7 put
the insurance on these bonding -- on these
8 bonds
that were poorly underwritten, pay that
9 extra
amount. It shouldn't be the -- the
10 taxpayers
of the State.
11 So
there are other ways that we can limit
12 our
-- our contingent liabilities, or implied
13 liabilities,
and I think it's important for us
14 to
do that as well.
15 MR.
WATKINS: Right.
16 In
fact, some of the information required
17 by
the debt affordability study that's not
18 summarized
here, Governor, is the point that
19 you
make, it was the indirect -- remember, you
20 said,
well, what about universities, what about
21 DSOs,
what about school districts, what about
22 Water
Management Districts?
23 And
we did a presentation over at City Hall
24 about
the indirect --
25 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Right.
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DIVISION
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December 11, 2002
1 MR. WATKINS: -- debt.
2 That
kind of information is embedded in an
3 updated
debt affordability study. I just
4 didn't
highlight it for you here, simply
5 because
it's not as important to us proper.
6 But
it -- but it is something to be mindful
7 of,
and --
8 GOVERNOR
BUSH: It's a lot of money though.
9 I
mean, it's --
10 MR.
WATKINS: It's --
11 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- something we need to be
12 watching.
13 MR.
WATKINS: It is a lot of money. And
14 it's
very important to distinguish, you know,
15 what
we're legally obligated for, and morally
16 obligated
for, and what we're not so that the
17 markets
can operate on the correct information.
18 The
-- the chart shows two things:
19 Basically
the horizontal line is the target,
20 and
you can see what the historical development
21 in
the benchmark debt ratio has been, and --
22 and
then what the current projection of the
23 benchmark
--
24 (Commissioner
Bronson entered the room.)
25 MR.
WATKINS: -- debt ratio is.
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DIVISION
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December 11, 2002
1 We expect to exceed our target of -- of
2 6
percent next year with the debt ratio going
3 up
to -- to 6.18 percent, and then peaking in
4 2005
at approximately six-and-a-half percent.
5 And
then we have a drop because of the --
6 the
revenue growth that we projected. And
7 reinforcing
what Commissioner Bronson has
8 already
pointed out, nothing included in here
9 for
class size reduction or high-speed rail.
10 Debt
capacity for the 6 percent tar--
11 target.
In -- in evaluating what impact --
12 what
the ratio means to us in terms of
13 spending,
it's important to convert it to debt
14 capacity.
15 And
the total capacity, upper right-hand
16 side
over the next ten years within the
17 6
percent target ratio is 12.2 billion dollars.
18 And
then we reduce it by the 11 billion
19 that
we expect to issue under the existing
20 programs,
leaving us a remaining capacity over
21 the
next ten years within the 6 percent target
22 of
1.2 billion dollars.
23 And
that's down from 3 billion that we had
24 calculated
last year because of the additional
25 borrowing
that we -- we expect to do that we've
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December 11, 2002
1 already talked about, and the fact that we have
2 lower
revenues expected over the long-term.
3 The
other important thing to note, and to
4 understand
about that number is, you'll note
5 that
that capacity is not available until 2011.
6 So
it -- you know, from a practical
7 standpoint,
it basically means we're over our
8 target,
and we don't expect to come back into
9 compliance
until an extended period of time.
10 So
accordingly, there is no available
11 uncommitted
capacity within the 6 percent
12 target.
13 The
last step in the analysis is to
14 calculate
the debt capacity available within
15 the
7 percent cap. And -- and what we see is
16 that
the total capacity available over the
17 ten
years, after taking into account the
18 11
billion expected to be issued, is
19 5.3
billion dollars available incrementally
20 over
the next ten years.
21 And
only 2.4 billion dollars of that
22 5.3
billion in -- in total available capacity
23 is
available in the near term, over the next
24 five
years.
25 So
there is capacity within the 7 percent
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December 11, 2002
1 cap. But the way this ought to be viewed is
2 that
it's a scarce resource only to be used for
3 critically
needed infrastructure, and not as a
4 notion,
we can -- we ought to just push it up
5 to
the cap and not worry about it until we get
6 to
the cap.
7 Remember
our -- our target, where we want
8 to
be is really 6 percent. Where we've said
9 we're
-- we don't want to go above is the -- is
10 the
7 percent.
11 And
different people have different views
12 about
whether that's -- you know, the 6 to
13 7
percent is too low or too high.
14 But
in any case, those are the measures
15 that
we're using to -- to manage ourselves by.
16 In
conclusion, the benchmark debt ratio is
17 expected
to exceed the 6 percent target based
18 on
current revenue estimates and expected debt
19 issuance.
20 The
increased debt ratio is due to more
21 debt
expected to be issued, and lower revenues
22 available
to pay. There's no capacity within
23 the
6 percent target ratio; there's 5.3 billion
24 in
capacity within the 7 percent cap, with only
25 2.4
billion of that being available in the near
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December 11, 2002
1 term.
2 Debt
is manageable it's curr-- at its
3 current
level. And from a credit rating
4 standpoint,
my opinion, we're in fairly good --
5 we're
in a fairly good position now, but we do
6 have
significant challenges with potentially
7 very
expensive capital needs in the form of the
8 constitutional
amendments with a -- which have
9 yet
to be factored into account in this
10 information
provided this morning.
11 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Any comments or questions?
12 Thank
you, Ben.
13 MR.
WATKINS: Thank you, Governor.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: I love -- you know, just
15 show
you how wacky I am, I -- I always enjoy
16 your
annual debt affordability studies.
17 MR.
WATKINS: I always knew you were
18 twisted,
Governor, I just didn't know the
19 extent
of it.
20 GOVERNOR
BUSH: I admit it. I'm a nerd.
21 It's
after the election, I can say that.
22 (The
Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
23 concluded.)
24 *
* *
25
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DEPARTMENT
OF REVENUE 43
December 11, 2002
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of Revenue.
2 Dr.
Zingale's also like that. I know that
3 you
just sat there riveted in your seat about
4 this
stuff, too, didn't you?
5 DR.
ZINGALE: I wanted to jump up and --
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Admit it.
7 DR.
ZINGALE: Yep.
8 It
got to the long-term forecast, and the
9 straight
line, ohhh, I wanted to get up.
10 But
--
11 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Motion on the
12 minutes.
13 ATTORNEY
GENERAL DORAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: There's a motion and a
15 second
on the minutes.
16 Without
objection, it's approved.
17 All
we've got to do is just learn how to
18 collect
the revenue that -- that's due us, and
19 the
rest of it just takes care of itself,
20 right,
Jim?
21 DR.
ZINGALE: There's a substantial piece
22 of
that coming down the road. There really is.
23 We'll
talk about that at different
24 briefings.
25 GOVERNOR
BUSH: I always wonder if --
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DEPARTMENT
OF REVENUE 44
December 11, 2002
1 you know, I -- I -- we all ask for -- we want
2 government
to be as efficient as the most
3 efficient
enterprise in our -- in our state,
4 and
then we get to the Department of Revenue,
5 and
sometimes I wish that Zingale wasn't as
6 efficient.
7 Item
2.
8 DR.
ZINGALE: Item 2 deals with the
9 property
taxpayer's right to appeal an
10 assessment
in front of a local Value Adjustment
11 Board.
12 Last
session, the Legislature passed
13 laws
-- comprehensive laws trying to improve
14 that
process.
15 There's
two rules embedded in this Item 2.
16 The
first one deals with really public
17 disclosure
about the timing of when the Value
18 Adjustment
Board is going to hear, and to make
19 sure
that notice is -- is given.
20 The
second part of it deals with the
21 evidentiary
exchange between the property
22 appraiser
justifying what he based his
23 assessment
on, or she based her assessment on,
24 and
the property appraiser's evidence in the
25 challenge.
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DEPARTMENT
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December 11, 2002
1 The second part had a very short time frame
2 where
this evidentiary exchange had to take
3 place
within five days of the VAB hearing so
4 that
both sides would know what's going on.
5 The
first part, we're asking for approval;
6 the
second part we're asking for a deferral.
7 Two
counties at the last minute raised the
8 issue
as to whether the five days dealt with
9 calendar
days or working days. And they're
10 very
concerned about if it's calendar days,
11 there
not being sufficient time to exchange
12 that
data.
13 So
on this item, we're asking for the first
14 part
to be approved, and the second part to be
15 deferred
so we can listen to their arguments.
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Is there a motion?
17 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Motion on 2.
18 SECRETARY
SMITH: Second.
19 GOVERNOR
BUSH: There's a motion and a
20 second.
21 The
item passes without objection.
22 The
first part is passed; the second part
23 is
deferred to --
24 Do
you have a date?
25 DR.
ZINGALE: It'll be here at the next --
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DEPARTMENT
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December 11, 2002
1 at the next meeting.
2 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- the next meeting.
3 Thank
you.
4 DR.
ZINGALE: The third item deals in child
5 support.
This is generated by our --
6 (Attorney
General Doran exited the room.)
7 DR.
ZINGALE: -- attempt to streamline our
8 current
policies and procedures in a number of
9 the
Intercept programs, our enforcement tools.
10 This
is really housekeeping, but it does
11 reflect
a lot of the efficiencies that are
12 embedded
in some of these programs.
13 A
little history on some of these Intercept
14 programs.
One of the major tools we have to
15 enforce
child support is that we can intercept
16 IRS
or workman comp refunds. That's about an
17 86
million dollar a year issue.
18 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Say that again?
19 DR.
ZINGALE: We can -- when you have your
20 Federal
Income Tax Return, and you submit a
21 return
asking for a refund, well, we swapped
22 IRS
data back and forth, matched the
23 social
security numbers, and 86 million a year,
24 we're
bringing in in refund claims.
25 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Oh, I thought you said
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DEPARTMENT
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December 11, 2002
1 workers' comp, too.
2 DR.
ZINGALE: And workers' comp, too. If
3 there's
--
4 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Okay.
5 DR.
ZINGALE: -- a workers' comp claim --
6 there's
thresholds on the worker --
7 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Workers' comp's not
8 86
million.
9 DR.
ZINGALE: No. It's a small piece of
10 that
--
11 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Okay.
12 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Motion on 3.
13 DR.
ZINGALE: Those are --
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: If we could --
15 DR.
ZINGALE: -- three other ones --
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- case, we could find
17 our
-- solve -- solve our problem with higher
18 premiums.
19 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: There's more than
20 that
paid out in workers' comp --
21 GOVERNOR
BUSH: But from -- for
22 child
support?
23 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: No. No, no.
24 DR.
ZINGALE: Three other ones I'd like to
25 quickly
highlight, and then request permission
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DEPARTMENT
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December 11, 2002
1 to adopt.
2 We
can also intercept bank accounts. And
3 we
have a growing list of cooperative
4 agreements
with banks now stretching across the
5 country.
It's called Financial Intercept
6 Program,
Data Match.
7 Five
million on a program that's just
8 recently
been started up. Lotteries, we get
9 about
$361,000 a year last year from the
10 lottery
intercepts. On the scratch and sniffs,
11 they
don't tell us what those are. But if it's
12 a
big thing payment where they have to divulge
13 their
social security number, we do that
14 intercept
--
15 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Three hundred and
16 sixteen
thousand dollars?
17 DR.
ZINGALE: Three hundred and sixty-one
18 thousand,
you thought you won the lottery, but
19 we
got a piece of it.
20 Passport
denials, that's a good flight
21 risk.
But half a million dollars last year in
22 denying
passports.
23 Get
current on your child support before we
24 will
allow you to get a current passport.
25 We're
reaching out, and we do this with
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DEPARTMENT
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December 11, 2002
1 occupational license, and quite a lot of things
2 in
our array of enforcement tools.
3 This
is -- this is streamlining and putting
4 better
procedures in place, and we have to put
5 those
--
6 (Attorney
General Doran entered the room.)
7 DR.
ZINGALE: -- in rules, so we're asking
8 your
approval on Item 3.
9 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Motion on 3.
10 SECRETARY
SMITH: Second.
11 GOVERNOR
BUSH: There's a motion and a
12 second.
13 Without
objection, the item passes.
14 DR.
ZINGALE: Thank you very much.
15 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you, Jim, for your
16 good
work in this area. This is -- there's --
17 there's
no -- we need to have a sense of
18 outrage
about -- about this, in my opinion,
19 about
the lack of enforcement of child support.
20 Noncustodial
parents better make this their
21 first
priority, and it's a shame that they
22 don't.
23 (The
Department of Revenue Agenda was
24 concluded.)
25 *
* *
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STATE
BOARD OF EDUCATION 50
December 11, 2002
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: What's next?
2 Department
of Education.
3 MS.
SAFLEY: Yes, sir.
4 Hi,
Governor.
5 The
-- Item 1 is the Spiral Tech Elementary
6 School
versus Miami-Dade County School. The
7 parties
reached a Settlement Agreement, and it
8 was
approved by the Miami-Dade School Board
9 on
November 3-- or 20th.
10 So
we motion to withdraw.
11 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Motion to withdraw.
12 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Second.
13 GOVERNOR
BUSH: There's a motion to
14 withdraw
and a second.
15 Without
objection, the item is withdrawn.
16 MS.
SAFLEY: And Item 2 is sort of a
17 progress
discussion on the Assistance Plus
18 Program.
19 We
have four superintendents here
20 representing
schools that have a double F, and
21 we
have two superintendents here representing
22 schools
that have a single F.
23 And
what I'd like to do is introduce them
24 one
by one. They each have, like, 2 to
25 3
minutes to speak on the overall progress of
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 what they're doing, and then maybe open up for
2 questions
and answers if that's your pleasure.
3 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Let's do it.
4 MS.
SAFLEY: Is that good?
5 Okay.
Well, first I'd like to represent --
6 or
recognize Dr. George Koonce, who's Associate
7 Superintendent
of School Operations from
8 Miami-Dade.
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Good morning.
10 Welcome.
11 DR.
KOONCE: Thank you.
12 Good
morning, Governor, and Honorable
13 members
of the Cabinet.
14 My
name is George Koonce, Jr., and I'm the
15 Associate
Superintendent for School Operations
16 in
Miami-Dade County.
17 It
is a pleasure -- it's a pleasure to be
18 here
this morning representing Superintendent
19 Merrett
Steirheim, and to have the opportunity
20 to
report on performance monitoring initiatives
21 currently
being implemented in
22 Miami-Dade
County public schools.
23 I'm
joined this morning by three region
24 superintendents,
who I'd like to introduce very
25 briefly:
Mr. Craig Sturgeon, who is
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 Superintendent of Region II; Ms. Willa Young,
2 who
is Superintendent of Region III; and
3 Mr.
Delio Diaz, who's in Region IV.
4 In
addition, I would also like to introduce
5 Dr.
Natalie Roca, who is the Executive Director
6 from
the Division of Student Assessment and
7 Educational
Testing, and Dr. Elizabeth Alvez,
8 the
Principal of Cutler Ridge Middle School.
9 Each
of these individuals who are here
10 today
has played a key role in the
11 implementation
of the District's assistance and
12 intervention
plan for the F schools in
13 Miami-Dade
County.
14 We've
identified three critical factors for
15 effective
performance monitoring in
16 Miami-Dade
County.
17 And
I'd like to list those three, and make
18 some
brief comments about them.
19 The
diagnostic assessment of individual
20 student
performance, ongoing data collection
21 and
monitoring for program effectiveness, and
22 adjustments
to instruction.
23 With
respect to -- and -- and I -- and I
24 might
want to add up front also that the type
25 of
question asked relative to these reports
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December 11, 2002
1 were very timely for us in Dade County, because
2 it
gave us the opportunity, or probably better
3 stated,
forced us to look at some of our
4 assessment
issues from a district-wide
5 perspective.
6 But
in Miami-Dade County, diagnos--
7 diagnostic
assessment of individual student
8 process
(sic) is obviously an ongoing process.
9 Each
school conducted an analysis of student
10 performance
of the March 2002 administration of
11 the
FCAT.
12 The
State-reported data was utilized during
13 the
summer to develop instructional and
14 organizational
plans specific to the needs of
15 particular
groups of students.
16 For
example, at Miami Edison Senior High
17 School,
students in the lowest quartile in
18 grades
9 and 10 were grouped homogeneously, as
19 well
as students whose scale scores were
20 50
points -- were within 50 points of
21 Level
3.
22 In
other instances, this data has been used
23 to
facilitate targeted classroom instruction
24 and
prescribed interventions in tutoring
25 activities.
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 To date, our schools have administered,
2 scored,
and analyzed district developed
3 reading,
mathematics, and writing progress
4 tests
that measure the Sunshine State
5 Standards.
6 This
information is being used to establish
7 baseline
data to identify the instructional
8 needs
of students.
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: When was the baseline data
10 administered?
11 DR.
KOONCE: The baseline data was
12 administered
through the pretesting at the
13 beginning
of the school year.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: So that's all been done.
15 DR.
KOONCE: Yes, sir.
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Okay.
17 DR.
KOONCE: And if I could just make a
18 couple
--
19 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Out of curiosity, is it
20 done
just in the F schools, or in all of the
21 students
that you described that were at
22 Level
1, I assume, and then the ones that were
23 close
to Level 3, is that --
24 MEMBER
OF THE AUDIENCE: All students.
25 DR.
KOONCE: This was done in all of our
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 schools of all of our students. However --
2 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Okay.
3 DR.
KOONCE: -- particular emphasis
4 obviously
was placed --
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: All right.
6 DR.
KOONCE: -- in those schools.
7 Monitoring
program effectiveness, just a
8 few
comments.
9 The
performance monitoring of programs has
10 been
unique to each school.
11 And
this is one of the areas where we see
12 that
we need to develop some district-wide
13 systemic
kinds of benchmarking, because the
14 school
level benchmarking and pretesting is
15 done
extensively so they have the data there.
16 But
where we are lacking at is getting some
17 way
of managing that data in a more effective
18 and
cohesive way so that we can do more in the
19 area
of adjusted instruction, based on the data
20 that
we have.
21 So
it's been dependent upon specific
22 programs
and interventions at the school level.
23 And
in most instances, a combination of both
24 District-developed
progress tests, commercially
25 produced
assessment, and teacher-offered
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 assessments have been used to determine the
2 effectiveness
of instruction.
3 And
let me give you just a couple of
4 examples.
5 For
instance, Floral Heights Elementary
6 School
has effectively used commercially
7 produced
instruction of program from CCC.
8 That's
the Computer Curriculum Cooperation
9 (phonetic),
and assessment to chart student
10 progress.
11 Not
only do average reading, math, and
12 writing
scores reflect our overall gains, but
13 discrete
skills, such as vocabulary, main idea,
14 author's
response, and comparison and contrast
15 are
all assessed and charted.
16 In
most instances, results indicate
17 positive
gains.
18 However,
an analysis of the data also
19 revealed
that on questions related to cause and
20 effect
--
21 (Secretary
Smith exited the room.)
22 DR.
KOONCE: -- there was a noted decrease
23 in
student performance. This decrease
24 initiated
some adjustments to instruction, and
25 this
is what we want to do in more of our --
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 more of our schools, whether actually that the
2 data
drives the adjustments to instruction.
3 GOVERNOR
BUSH: So this -- I mean, to use
4 this
example, CCC has got an on-line
5 remediation
--
6 DR.
KOONCE: An ongoing assessment.
7 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- this is -- unlike the
8 baseline,
this is ongoing, and you can quickly
9 identify
where the strengths and weaknesses
10 are,
and it's based on the Sunshine Skill
11 Standards
(sic).
12 DR.
KOONCE: You're absolutely correct.
13 GOVERNOR
BUSH: So, in essence, you're --
14 you're
tes-- you're -- you're testing to the
15 standards.
That's -- that's a horrible thing.
16 I
hope that's happening all across the school
17 district.
18 I
assume that's what's going on. I mean,
19 you're
testing to the standards, and you're
20 measuring
on an ongoing basis where kids are.
21 DR.
KOONCE: Yes, sir.
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Fantastic.
23 I'm
just checking to see if anybody's
24 writing
that down.
25 No,
not yet.
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STATE
BOARD OF EDUCATION 58
December 11, 2002
1 DR. KOONCE: Thank you very much.
2 Let
me make just a brief comment on
3 adjustment
to instruction. I'll just give some
4 examples
of that so that I don't exceed my 2 to
5 3
minutes.
6 As
schools collect and analyze student
7 performance
data, adjustment to instructions
8 are
currently being made. Classroom teachers
9 are
sequencing instruction to target particular
10 benchmarks.
11 Supplementary
instructional materials are
12 being
utilized to support an enhanced student
13 learning,
master schedules to reflect the needs
14 of
creatively grouped students to ensure
15 appropriate
coverage of Sunshine State
16 Standards,
tutoring opportunities are being
17 offered
extensively and utilized in a variety
18 of
instructional programs.
19 And
obviously technology is being
20 incorporated,
and we believe effectively to
21 diagnose
and assess students.
22 One
--
23 Yes,
sir.
24 GOVERNOR
BUSH: We're -- we're -- we just
25 want
to move on.
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 I mean, I -- it sounds -- I mean, are --
2 have
-- based on the number of -- I forgot how
3 many
F schools you have --
4 (Secretary
Smith entered the room.)
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- there's a --
6 DR.
KOONCE: Twelve.
7 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- twelve of them. I mean,
8 do
you think that there's progress, annual
9 student
learning gains will be significant
10 based
on what you know, and the ongoing
11 assessment?
12 I'm
kind of cutting to the chase here.
13 DR.
KOONCE: Well, I think the ongoing
14 gains
will be noted. I'm not --
15 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, they'd be noted
16 either
--
17 DR.
KOONCE: At this point --
18 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- if they -- if they --
19 DR.
KOONCE: Yes.
20 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- if they exist or don't.
21 DR.
KOONCE: I understand.
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: But, I mean, are they going
23 to
be --
24 DR.
KOONCE: Let me see how I can say that,
25 because
you used the word significant.
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
2 Enough
to be --
3 DR.
KOONCE: I --
4 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- no longer F.
5 DR.
KOONCE: I would --
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: How about that?
7 DR.
KOONCE: I would think that we would
8 see
some gains, and I hope they will be
9 systemic,
and reflect the efforts that we've
10 made
this year.
11 To
the extent of significant, I am not
12 comfortable
in -- in stating that at this
13 assessment
point.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Okay.
15 DR.
KOONCE: I believe that once we get
16 more
data in, get a look at it -- look at it
17 more
comprehensively, then we can make those
18 kinds
of statements. And we hope to have some
19 of
that data in January.
20 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you.
21 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Governor, I think one
22 of
the things we have to look at is for some of
23 these
high schools, if you -- if your incoming
24 students
are reading below 4th grade level --
25 and
it's hard to believe, but some of that
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 happens --
2 GOVERNOR
BUSH: No, it's true.
3 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: -- you've got a --
4 you've
got a long way to go. But we expect
5 50
percent of the lower quartile to have a
6 sizable
gain. And not reaching that means that
7 people
aren't spending the time on that lower
8 quartile.
9 Right?
10 GOVERNOR
BUSH: You can overcome the way
11 that
the system works, and you've got really
12 smart
people that can -- I mean, we want you to
13 gain
the system, because that means that you're
14 focusing
on the lower performing schools of
15 students,
particularly in reading.
16 Annual
student -- there are many schools
17 that
have similar kind of levels of -- of
18 children
that are in the high school and lower
19 schools
that are reading at below Level 3, but
20 because
they focused on annual student learning
21 gains,
they -- they did better in our scoring
22 system.
23 And
there's a reason for that, for exactly
24 what
you said, because that deals with the
25 Edison
High School problem where there are many
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 kids that are reading way below grade level.
2 It's
not -- you know, it's very hard -- it's
3 harder
in high school to overcome that, because
4 it's
taken a long time to get there.
5 But
if you show annual student learning
6 gains,
there's -- there's hope, and that's kind
7 of
what we want you to be focused on, I think.
8 DR.
KOONCE: And let me assure you,
9 Governor,
we are focused.
10 GOVERNOR
BUSH: I know you are. I read
11 about
it every day.
12 DR.
KOONCE: Okay. Well, thank you very
13 much.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you.
15 MS.
SAFLEY: Okay. Next we have
16 Escambia
County, Superintendent Jim Paul.
17 GOVERNOR
BUSH: How's Century doing?
18 MR.
PAUL: Century's doing just fine,
19 Governor.
20 Good
morning, Governor Bush, and -- and
21 Cabinet
members.
22 I'm
going to be brief because I have to be.
23 I'm
fighting off bronchitis and laryngitis, and
24 I'm
medicated.
25 I
may just completely collapse, Charlie.
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 COMMISSIONER CRIST: No, don't do that.
2 MR.
PAUL: So I might -- I expect you to
3 come
down and help me out.
4 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: More drama than we
5 need.
6 MR.
PAUL: I brought a -- a couple of
7 people
with me today that I hope will have a
8 chance
to speak to the Governor -- again, real
9 brief.
10 And
that's Russell Queen. He's the
11 Principal
at Century/Carver K-8, and will speak
12 to
the Century part of -- as well as
13 Sheree
Cagle, who's our Comprehensive Planning
14 Director
and works very closely with our
15 Assistance
Plus and works almost as a liaison
16 to
make sure we -- we provide everything that
17 we
need to provide for -- for Century
18 Elementary
School. And I go up there a lot.
19 So
I will, in turn, be real brief and turn
20 it
over to him who knows most about it.
21 Let
me just say this much: That we're
22 A+
fans, and we are also a no-excuses school
23 district.
We believe that our kids can learn,
24 and
they do learn, and we have the data to
25 prove
it.
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 I don't know that we'll ever be satisfied
2 in
the sense that until all of our students are
3 not
just at grade level, but exceed grade
4 level.
And that's quite a challenge, and it's
5 quite
a boast. But we should think positive
6 and
work towards that way.
7 Out
attitude is storm the gates, and -- and
8 take
the hill, General, if you don't mind me
9 using
that analogy.
10 If
you don't mind, gentlemen, I'd like to
11 turn
it over now to the -- excuse me -- to
12 Russell
Queen, who's the Principal of that good
13 school.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Welcome, sir.
15 MR.
QUEEN: Good morning, Governor,
16 Cabinet.
17 It's
a pleasure to be here this morning. I
18 am
the Principal of Century K-8. I love my
19 school,
and I love my kids, and you're going to
20 hear
about some of the wonderful things that
21 are
going on there now.
22 One
of the things that was brought up
23 towards
the end of the other gentleman and I
24 want
to cover right now is the lowest quartile.
25 Our
lowest quartile, some of the things
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 we're doing specifically to target those
2 students,
3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and
3 8th
grade, based on their FCAT scores, they
4 received
the regular reading instruction that
5 all
the other students are receiving.
6 They
also receive daily for 3rd, 4th, and
7 5th
grade, SRA remediation instruction. This
8 is
above and beyond the 90-day -- the 90-minute
9 blocked
scheduling we've done for reading.
10 The
reading curriculum is designed around
11 the
Sunshine State Standards. Looking at our
12 FCAT
scores and analyzing them, we have a
13 problem
with cause and effect, with
14 comprehension.
And in our younger grades, we
15 have
a problem with actual vocabulary.
16 So
we're looking at ways to increase those
17 things
specifically, and I'll go over some data
18 to
show you that we're doing that.
19 Another
major concern after being there for
20 14
months is I have a -- we have a concern
21 about
the actual vocabulary and word knowledge
22 that
our students are coming to us in pre-K and
23 kindergarten.
24 We
have started screening specifically for
25 vocabulary,
phenomical awareness in our younger
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 students.
2 I'm
also going to screen our entire
3 kindergarten
for speech and language. Mostly
4 it's
done on a teacher referral, and that takes
5 time.
6 So
we are going to blanketly screen those
7 students
by our speech pathologist to get -- to
8 identify
those students with real needs early.
9 And
that is going on this week and next week.
10 The
parents have to opt out if they don't
11 want
us to proceed with those screenings. So
12 we
were sending a letter home last week if
13 anyone's
interested in not having their child
14 participate.
So we're covering all our bases
15 that
way.
16 Some
of the success stories I'd like to
17 share
with you is we gave an FCAT pretest to
18 our
3rd, 4th, and 5th grade students in
19 October.
20 We
compared them, not only to how the
21 students
did the previous year on their own
22 scores,
but actually how 3rd, 4th, and
23 5th
grade did the year previous -- the year in
24 March.
25 So
-- in the FCAT -- on the 3rd grade
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STATE
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December 11, 2002
1 scores, they increased 7 percent -- by
2 7
percentage points over what the same
3 3rd
grade class did in March.
4 So
here we are in October --
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Is that an average?
6 MR.
QUEEN: Yes, sir.
7 That's
the -- compared to the 3rd grade
8 last
year to the 3rd grade this year. This is
9 in
math.
10 Fourth
grade, 2.5 percentage points.
11 And,
remember, this test was given in early
12 October.
13 Fifth
grade, 1 percentage point.
14 Reading,
we're using also CCC. Now it's
15 called
Success Maker. It is set up straightly
16 with
the Sunshine State Standards and the
17 benchmarks.
18 We
are learning the program as we go along.
19 It's
been in the school, but it's -- we've had
20 some
hardware and software problems, and those
21 are
taken care of now.
22 In
reading, 3rd grade over a four- to --
23 four-
to six-week period, we saw a half a month
24 gain;
4th grade, we saw three months's worth of
25 gain;
5th grade, two months's worth of gain.
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1 And this also breaks it down into what is
2 working.
And we're also seeing show up where
3 we
are missing and have to change our
4 curriculum
and our style of teaching.
5 And,
again, comprehension, cause and effect
6 is
a definite concern, and we can see that when
7 these
tests are scored. And the majority of
8 the
students may be increasing in these levels,
9 but
very minute amounts.
10 And
we're adjusting our curriculum, getting
11 our
specialists to help us with that
12 adjustment.
13 GOVERNOR
BUSH: You're not -- you're not
14 abandoning
any focus on K through 2 --
15 MR.
QUEEN: No, sir. No, sir.
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you.
17 MR.
QUEEN: What -- when we had the
18 statistical
evidence to show improvement, I
19 brought
the 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade data,
20 because
I figured that's what you'd be most
21 interested
in seeing.
22 But,
no, sir, we are -- K, 1, and 2, the
23 same
thing, they are also receiving the
24 SRA
remediation, as well as the 90-minute
25 block
reading scheduling.
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1 Also we're going to administer the same
2 placement
test that we administered the
3 beginning
of May of last year, next week and
4 the
week we return from January, and it will
5 actually
show grade level growth. And that's
6 going
to be done kindergarten through
7 5th
grade.
8 And
I'm expecting when you get my report in
9 January,
to show you some information there
10 that's
going to show the growth.
11 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Is the community
12 responding?
13 MR.
QUEEN: Yes, sir.
14 The
District and the State has responded
15 very
nicely.
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: The business community,
17 volunteers,
you have --
18 MR.
QUEEN: Yes, sir.
19 The
Mayor is working on getting some
20 release
time for City employees to be mentors.
21 The
-- we used to have mentors before I was
22 principal
there from the prison that's there,
23 sir.
But there's been some -- from workers
24 now
--
25 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Oh. Oh.
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1 No wonder -- we've identified part of the
2 problem
perhaps.
3 MR.
QUEEN: Yes, sir -- there we go.
4 From
the employees, but they're --
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you for --
6 MR.
QUEEN: -- they're having --
7 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- clarifying that.
8 MR.
QUEEN: Yeah.
9 They
do cut the grass and clean the grounds
10 nicely
on week-- on weekends.
11 MR.
PAUL: Russ, don't say any more.
12 We
operate efficiently and save money.
13 MR.
QUEEN: Yes, sir.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you.
15 Thank
you very much.
16 MS.
SAFLEY: Okay. Now we have
17 Orange
County Superintendent, Ron Blocker.
18 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Good morning, Ron.
19 MR.
BLOCKER: Good morning, Governor; and
20 good
morning, Cabinet members.
21 And,
General Milligan, congratulations, and
22 God's
speed.
23 Basically,
Orange County is approaching the
24 monitoring
process, and that's what I was told
25 that
you needed to know, how we monitor
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1 achievement.
2 And
we approach the monitoring process from
3 three
ways. We -- I look at it from a District
4 level;
and then, of course, there's a school
5 level
way of looking at it; and then there's a
6 classroom
way of looking at it.
7 We
are very outcomes-oriented as far as not
8 looking
at the process, what you're doing, as
9 much
as what results from what you're doing.
10 And
then if the results aren't what we want
11 it
to be, then we sit down and we have
12 conversation
on that.
13 The
District level look -- excuse me --
14 perspective
is more of a global, periodic
15 analysis
of the information. And then when you
16 get
into the school base look, it's more --
17 obviously
the frequency has increased, and it's
18 ongoing
assessment.
19 The
District level is generated and driven
20 by
me, the school level is driven and generated
21 by
the area superintendent working with the
22 principal,
and then through the teachers.
23 So
from a District-level monitoring
24 perspective,
we've implemented a comprehensive
25 plan
that uses State-required data that you all
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1 are looking for, as well as our own District
2 assessments.
3 It's
very outcomes-oriented. We actually
4 use
the information not only to -- to monitor
5 the
progress going on, but it also opens the
6 door
to talk about what type of screening needs
7 to
take place with groups of students, what
8 type
-- the -- the strength and weaknesses of
9 our
-- of our diagnostic system, and then
10 obviously
reassessing students for the results
11 that
we're looking for.
12 We
used State-adopted assessments such as
13 school
readiness, uniform screening system, the
14 Dynamic
Indic-- well, we call then DIBELS. You
15 all
are probably aware of them. And then the
16 Early
Reading Diagnostic Assessment.
17 We
also use the Degrees of Reading Power,
18 which
is the DRP, in grades 4 through 10. And
19 that's
-- that's -- that's a criterion
20 reference-oriented
type of test that looks more
21 at
reading comprehension.
22 It
correlates fairly well with the FCAT, in
23 our
estimation, and we generally do -- we
24 initially
assessed all the students in
25 September.
And we're currently going through
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1 our December assessment so we can compare.
2 I
actually get quarterly reports, and we
3 can
compare the progress from September to --
4 through
December. And then we will do that
5 later
on in the year, and then that will give
6 us
an indication of what we need to do.
7 So
the December assessment will really give
8 me
an indication what we need to do in January
9 when
we get back from the holidays.
10 The
quar-- I'll use that to segue into our
11 quarterly
reports.
12 Our
quarterly reports occur, again, four
13 times
a year. We've had a first and
14 second
grad-- occurs with each grading period.
15 We
also assess math progress and -- and --
16 and,
for example, we -- we -- with assessment
17 and
all what we call the gatekeeper indicators,
18 such
as algebra in high school.
19 Students
who are Level 1 performers are all
20 put
on an academic improvement plan. And we
21 look
at other things, in my quarterly reports,
22 like
teacher absences, student absences, and
23 the
number of out-of-field teachers we have --
24 GOVERNOR
BUSH: How is that going so far?
25 MR.
BLOCK: Pardon?
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1 Well, so far we've gotten everybody's
2 attention.
3 And,
secondly, what it's done is it's
4 required
schools to really have some in-depth
5 conversations
on the curriculum environment
6 that
we did last year, how that relates to
7 they're
curr-- to what they're doing.
8 And
also if they're not getting to
9 first
base with the kid, what's happening. But
10 we've
put so many support systems in place, I
11 think
teachers are feeling comfortable that
12 there
is a light at the end of the tunnel.
13 In
other words, when they run against that
14 wall,
they have actually some -- some --
15 some
-- some good help, some substantive help
16 coming
from their principal and the District
17 office
to help get them through that.
18 Then
the area -- and that's the
19 conversation
I would have with the area
20 superintendents.
We're divided in five
21 learning
communities.
22 And
basically we look at it school by
23 school,
and I say, okay, what's happening here
24 and
why is it happening?
25 They
would have already had that
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1 information and at that time they had that
2 conversation
with the principals. And so
3 they
-- that allows me to keep my finger on the
4 pulse.
5 The
area superintendents are responsible
6 obviously
for the -- for the daily supervision
7 of
approximately 30 or so schools. But added
8 to
that responsibility, because of this
9 monitoring
system, there's a mid-year
10 conference
that they're having in January with
11 each
principal within their area to talk about
12 what's
going on.
13 In
the F schools specifically, there are
14 some
even -- I would say additional review
15 of
what's going on because basically we
16 realized
this is fish or cut bait for those
17 ten
schools.
18 So
my job is to monitor what the area
19 superintendent's
doing; and the area
20 superintendent
is monitoring school performance
21 through
each principal, and providing a -- the
22 area
staff as a support system to the schools
23 as
they identify issues and problems.
24 In
my peripheral vision, it's red flag
25 time?
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1 Okay. The yellow light's on.
2 Then
quickly, the schools obviously use the
3 information
we give them to help them out. But
4 teachers
are also using their own tests,
5 homemade
and instructional.
6 We
also have other standardized things
7 provided
by publishers, like the 24/7 Baseline
8 Math
Assessment that we use in high school for
9 algebra
classes, and SRA, EDU tests, et cetera.
10 And
we have a -- what we call a
11 Crystal
report that literally takes anything
12 that's
on our mainline that's related to
13 student
achievement, reconfigures it so that we
14 get
it in a focus report to help us then
15 monitor
what's going on.
16 And
that's it in a nutshell.
17 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Again, as it relates to the
18 F
schools, the -- it sounds like you have the
19 capacity
to have a student-centered monitoring
20 where
children are.
21 How
are they going?
22 MR.
BLOCKER: We think they're going --
23 it's
varying levels of success. And where it's
24 going
real well, obviously there's more control
25 features
in place; and -- and the principals
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1 are providing the leadership, and the teachers
2 are
responding to a lot of interventions.
3 Where
it's not going well, we're finding
4 there
are pockets of issues. For instance,
5 teacher
training would be one.
6 Sometimes
we've had to augment and replace
7 staff
that were supposed to be in a -- a
8 coaching
or mentoring perspective, and may not
9 have
had the skill set to really fully do that.
10 So
we try to tailor and customize our
11 training
to the various needs of the schools.
12 But
we expect all of them not to be F schools
13 at
the end of the year, because basically we're
14 getting
feedback all along the way.
15 Not
as frequently as we would like it, but
16 we've
been -- implemented a lot of new programs
17 this
year in establishing baselines, and it'll
18 be
much smoother next year. But even with what
19 we
have, it's much better than what we've ever
20 had.
21 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you.
22 Thank
you, Superintendent.
23 MR.
BLOCKER: Okay.
24 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Happy holidays.
25 MS.
SAFLEY: Okay. Now, we have
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December 11, 2002
1 Art Johnson, Superintendent for Palm Beach.
2 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Good morning, Art.
3 DR.
JOHNSON: Good morning, Governor,
4 Cabinet
members. It's a pleasure to be here.
5 Welcome
from sunny south Florida.
6 Your
basic question, Governor, is how are
7 the
schools doing?
8 We
are anticipating that several of our
9 seven
F schools will go as high as a C.
10 A
couple of our F schools, however, we are
11 still
struggling with. And in my brief
12 remarks,
I want to talk to you about how we are
13 monitoring,
and what we are finding, and the
14 problems
that we are confronted with.
15 First
of all, we do use a data warehouse
16 which
we are continuing to develop, which
17 allows
us not only to look at where students
18 are,
but what the input variables are that are
19 moving
student achievement. Because if we can
20 manipulate
those input variables, we can begin
21 to
make a better job and better decisions
22 regarding
the students.
23 As
I reported to you the last time we
24 was
(sic) here, we either put new principals or
25 supervising
principals in all seven of our
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1 schools.
2 In
addition to that, we have paid $10,000
3 incentives
to high performing teachers. Those
4 are
our teachers in our District who were
5 identified
with the highest learning gains to
6 go
to those schools.
7 We
have a FAST program, which is Focused
8 Assess
Support, that goes into the school from
9 the
District and the area offices, and works
10 directly
with the teachers and principals.
11 I
personally as superintendent, even though
12 we
have 160 schools and I have visited most of
13 our
schools this year, spend more of my time
14 visiting
the F schools.
15 Our
monitoring program is as follows: We
16 obviously
have the FCAT. We also have
17 Sunshine
State Standard diagnostics tests,
18 which
we give throughout the year.
19 We
use the SRI, which is a
20 commerically-prepared
test that helps us to
21 determine
grade level on a regular basis. And
22 we
have employed the standards in practice and
23 efficacy
model of common planning and common
24 assessment.
25 And
what that means is to make sure that
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1 the critical Sunshine State Standards are being
2 tested,
and retaught as necessary. There is
3 daily
and weekly monitoring of this by the
4 schools
with -- working with the individual
5 students
and teachers.
6 Now,
the results have been that we've had
7 gains
in all of our schools: Reading, writing,
8 and
in mathematics. But we have had stubborn
9 areas.
10 Sometimes
those stubborn areas are in
11 certain
grade levels where we have a -- a
12 critical
mass of teachers that may not be as
13 effective
in terms of their common planning as
14 in
others.
15 The
problems that we've entailed are as
16 follows:
First of all, the union contract.
17 We've
had issues with money, and we've had
18 issues
with transfers. And we have worked
19 closely
with the union to try to work through
20 these,
but it hasn't been easy.
21 Second
of all, we've had personnel
22 problems.
There have been individuals in our
23 schools
that simply have not worked out because
24 they
do not believe, and we've had to transfer
25 them
out after the fact, and that has presented
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1 problems.
2 We've
had issues with our principals that
3 we've
placed there. In one case, there was a
4 personnel
issue where I had to remove the
5 principal
briefly, and then reinstate them.
6 In
another case, the principal has already
7 been
replaced because of the inability to
8 motivate
the staff.
9 And
lastly, there is the classic preference
10 on
the part of teachers and principals to go to
11 certain
schools. And certainly nobody is
12 clamoring
to go to F-rated schools in spite of
13 some
of the monetary incentives that we have.
14 Nevertheless,
we understand that this is
15 God's
work; that this is a -- a mission that is
16 possible;
that is a mission that is doable; and
17 it
is a mission for which we have absolutely no
18 alternative,
but to make it work.
19 And
I'm committed to do whatever it
20 takes
-- and I mean, literally, whatever it
21 takes
-- to make sure that these youngsters get
22 a
quality education so that they can be
23 productive
citizens in our fine state.
24 I
also have said before that in absence of
25 the
legislative A+ accountability plan, it is
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1 very unlikely that any District, because all
2 politics
are local -- i.e., Tip O'Neill -- that
3 they
would be able to withstand the political
4 pressure
to put into place the kind of
5 requirements
that the A+ plan and
6 accountability
has given us.
7 So
I applaud you for your continued
8 insistence
that we make it right by these
9 youngsters.
10 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you.
11 Any
questions to -- to Art?
12 It
-- one of the things that is really
13 apparent,
and it's not that well known, is
14 that
-- you know, the FCAT can be used as a
15 diagnostic
tool, but it really is an assessment
16 of
where --
17 DR.
JOHNSON: Yes.
18 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- people are to the
19 standards,
that the school districts, prior to
20 our
accountability, but now may be used more
21 intensively,
all have diagnostic tools
22 available
to them, and they use them in
23 their
-- by-in-large using their -- they're
24 diagnosing
where students are to our standards,
25 where
our expectations are.
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1 And that's -- that just provides me a lot
2 of
hope that when there's a -- now there's a
3 consequence
to -- you know, difference between
4 success
and -- and mediocrity perhaps that
5 these
tools can be very handy.
6 DR.
JOHNSON: Well, on a humorous note, and
7 I
may have mentioned this before, when posed
8 the
question, which I am -- often am, are -- in
9 other
words, are you suggesting that we teach
10 to
the test?
11 And
I will usually turn to the educator
12 that
has asked that, and say, well, let me ask
13 you
a question, in your classroom, do you teach
14 to
your test, do you test what you're teaching?
15 And,
of course, the answer is always yes.
16 So
then if -- to follow up, in other words,
17 it
depends on whose test it is.
18 So
in reality --
19 GOVERNOR
BUSH: That's true.
20 DR.
JOHNSON: -- it is -- you know, it's a
21 fact.
22 I'll
also tell you another problem that we
23 are
struggling with.
24 As
a District, we have over time, because
25 of
OCR and the courts, and some of our own
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1 public policy decisions to basically
2 resegregate
our system into neighborhood
3 schools,
we have put children into extreme
4 high
-- high concentrations of poverty in
5 schools.
6 Now,
that's tantamount to us saying that
7 we're
going to put all our ESOL kids, our ESE
8 kids,
our kids by race in a single school.
9 And
we would also -- well, you can't do
10 that.
It's not morally right, it's not legally
11 right.
But we've done that with pockets of
12 poverty.
13 So
I have a few schools out there that
14 are
--
15 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Is that mostly in the
16 elementary
school level?
17 DR.
JOHNSON: No. No, it's not.
18 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, you have lots of
19 Magnet
schools though. I thought that was used
20 as
your public --
21 DR.
JOHNSON: Well, Magnet schools, as
22 you
know, Governor, have served an interesting
23 purpose.
24 Initially
when we used them in
25 Palm
Beach County, it was for the purpose of
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1 desegregation, and it didn't work, with a few
2 exceptions.
We have our Suncoasts, and we have
3 our
Morikamis, and -- and those are very
4 great
--
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: So you're moving away from
6 that.
7 DR.
JOHNSON: Well, we have to, because
8 the
-- and -- and, of course, now, it's very
9 difficult
because the constituencies love their
10 Magnet
dollars.
11 But
when we review Magnet programs based on
12 student
achievement, integration, and
13 specialization
of program -- I have Magnet
14 programs
that simply haven't worked. And we
15 have
begun to reconstitute some of those
16 schools
by simply saying to the principal, you
17 take
your Magnet dollars, your three-quarters
18 of
a million, or a million dollars, you
19 completely
do away with your Magnet program.
20 You
can keep the dollars, but you have to
21 emphasize
reading, writing, and counting and
22 the
Sunshine State Standards.
23 And
in some cases, we've reconstituted as
24 much
as 60 percent of the faculty and the --
25 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Interesting.
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1 DR. JOHNSON: -- school to accomplish that.
2 But
we still have a tremendous amount --
3 number
of our schools that are Magnet schools,
4 that,
you know, quite honestly in terms of
5 academic
achievement, I do not consider them to
6 be
successful, and they have not been able to
7 break
up these pockets of poverty.
8 And
our public policy has resegregated our
9 system
to -- to actually increase that.
10 So
we are going back now and beginning to
11 talk
about economic diversity as a public
12 policy
position to help us when we deal with
13 the
boundaries of our system.
14 And
that has been successful across the
15 country
where it has been tried. It also has
16 been
a political nightmare --
17 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Explosive.
18 DR.
JOHNSON: -- for the systems that have
19 tackled
it. And I expect no less than that in
20 my
system.
21 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Good luck to you on that.
22 The
-- one other question: How are we
23 doing
out in the Glades? I can't remember the
24 name
of the wonderful principal that came here.
25 I
hope she wasn't one of the ones that you
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1 asked to leave.
2 DR.
JOHNSON: No.
3 She
is doing an out-- Mary Evans is doing
4 an
outstanding job.
5 This
is the first time in modern history
6 that
Glades Central's football team did not win
7 ten
games, did not win nine games, did not win
8 eight
games --
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: My gosh.
10 DR.
JOHNSON: -- they only won seven games.
11 GOVERNOR
BUSH: This is a tragedy.
12 DR.
JOHNSON: But --
13 GOVERNOR
BUSH: They're learning the --
14 DR.
JOHNSON: -- they're learning.
15 And
during the pep rallies, if you're not
16 up
to speed, you're in the principal's office
17 being
tutored by the principal.
18 GOVERNOR
BUSH: I love that lady.
19 DR.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you.
21 MS.
SAFLEY: Governor, out of you and the
22 Cabinet's
commitment to also the schools that
23 were
a single F, to ensure that they are not a
24 double
F next year, we have identified two
25 superintendents
who represent that population.
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1 And so I'm going to introduce those now.
2 It
would be Superintendent Sterling Dupont from
3 Gadsden
County.
4 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Good morning, sir.
5 MR.
DUPONT: Good morning.
6 Governor
and Cabinet, it's a pleasure to be
7 here.
I guess I'm -- living right next door,
8 it's
real easy for me to get here on a morning
9 like
today.
10 My
name's Sterling Dupont, and I'm
11 Superintendent
of schools in Gadsden School.
12 And
with me, I have two of my principals:
13 Mrs.
Rosalyn Smith, Shanks High School; and
14 Mrs.
Rosa Barkley from Stewart Street
15 Elementary
School; and my K-12 Director in the
16 back,
Ms. Edna Forehand.
17 I
must tell you that we're pleased to be
18 here.
And, of course, we have two F schools in
19 our
county. We have 15 schools there. And
20 everything
that we do in Gadsden County is --
21 is
data-driven.
22 Our
main motto for this year, and has been
23 since
I've been Superintendent for two years,
24 is
to improve test scores. And we're making
25 progress
in that direction.
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1 What we do with that data, once we obtain
2 it,
we don't sit on it. It's in the hands of
3 our
teachers.
4 So
every teacher in our school system, not
5 just
those two schools that's here today, but
6 each
one of our teachers now understand the
7 strength
and weaknesses of every one of their
8 students
in the classroom.
9 And
that way, what we're doing, we're
10 teaching
not the materials, but we're teaching
11 the
child, him or herself.
12 What
we've also done in Gadsden County is
13 create
what we call the GCAT, G standing for
14 Gadsden,
and we modeled that after the FCAT.
15 Now,
the idea is to make sure that students
16 understand
that we care, not only the
17 State
of Florida cares about their progress,
18 but
also the leaders of the school system care.
19 So
we created that -- that GCAT.
20 (Governor
Bush exited the room.)
21 MR.
DUPONT: Testing is ongoing. We test
22 our
boys and girls on a regular basis, not
23 on
-- every Friday, but it's a constant thing
24 that
we do. And, of course, everything that we
25 do
is computer-assisted.
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1 In other words, if we need to pull boys and
2 girls
out to let them sit at a computer to work
3 on
their weaknesses, that's done, as the need
4 arise
(sic).
5 And
also we're starting to do something a
6 little
bit different. You know, very often you
7 talk
about teaching reading in elementary
8 school,
and also in the high school.
9 Well,
we're moving down a notch. We would
10 like
to have all of our boys and girls really
11 develop
those skills at an early age, as -- as
12 early
as pre-K.
13 You
talk about data's improving that. If
14 we
start to teach our youngsters when they're
15 three
and four, sounds, how to form alphabets
16 and
letters, then there's a good chance that
17 they'll
become better readers as they move on.
18 We've
tried all the different things
19 everybody
else has tried, CCC labs, SRAs,
20 open
courts, we do all those kinds of things,
21 too.
22 And
-- but everything that we do is tied
23 into
Sunshine State Standards.
24 (Governor
Bush entered the room.)
25 MR.
DUPONT: But let me tell you, one of
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1 the -- some of the things that we are doing I
2 think
that's sort of unique to Gadsden County.
3 Last
year, many of our school districts
4 around
the state did not have summer school.
5 We
ran a full summer school over in our
6 district.
7 And
also, even now, we -- we've created
8 something
we call Saturday Blitz. And we have
9 our
boys and girls in school, not every
10 Saturday
right now, but we're doing it one
11 Saturday
a month.
12 But
the first of the year, we'll go into
13 our
mode of doing it every Saturday. Every
14 Saturday
morning from 4:00 -- I mean, from 8:00
15 to
12:00.
16 Now,
to get them there, we bus all the kids
17 in
who take buses, and we also feed them
18 breakfast,
and also lunch.
19 I
might add, while I'm on -- on lunch and
20 breakfast,
every student in Gadsden County now
21 gets
a free breakfast, no matter what his fam--
22 family
does for a living.
23 Why?
24 Because
we believe that a full stomach in
25 the
morning will get our students acclimated
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1 and excited and ready to learn. So every one
2 of
our students eat (sic) a free breakfast.
3 We
also have after-school tutorials. We do
4 it
twice a week in many of our schools. And
5 some
schools, we do it three -- three times a
6 week.
And so this is good for us.
7 Now,
elementary schools, we emphasize
8 reading
in a big way. Each one of our schools
9 now,
we have a 90-minute reading block at the
10 start
of each one of our school days. And
11 we've
been doing it all over our county --
12 all
-- all -- the entire county.
13 Now,
high schools, we're doing what we call
14 reading
across the curriculum. We do that in
15 all
of our schools. Social studies teachers,
16 science
teachers emphasize reading in those
17 areas.
18 Now,
in-service is a big thing for our
19 teachers
as well. We've changed how we
20 in-service
our -- our teachers.
21 In
the old days, we pulled people out of
22 the
classroom to be in-serviced and to be
23 trained.
We've changed all of that now.
24 Our
in-service is done afternoons -- or
25 evenings
really, and on weekends. And that
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1 way, we don't pull teachers out of the
2 classroom
to be trained.
3 And
so to my surprise, I'm amazed that
4 teachers
like that, because now they say they
5 can
spend more time with their teachers (sic).
6 We're
also working with our community
7 people.
We have created a thing we call --
8 well,
it's not created. It's faith-based.
9 We
invited all of our ministers in and
10 asked
them to assist us with their
11 congregation.
And we said, listen, if you
12 can't
teach reading, and don't do writing,
13 teach
behavior, teach conduct, and let us do
14 the
other part of it.
15 And
so our churches have all gotten
16 involved
in this thing.
17 TCC,
our neighbor to the north of here --
18 I
mean, west of here, they send a bus load of
19 youngsters
every day to Gadsden County. They
20 bought
the van and they send them over there.
21 And
they work with our students on a daily
22 basis
-- not the same kids every day. But they
23 send
mentors over there.
24 I've
talked to Florida State and FAMU, and
25 they're
in the process of getting ready to do
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1 the very same thing.
2 And
so, as you see, we're involving not
3 just
our teachers, and our faith-based people,
4 but
also using our local universities.
5 But
the key thing here, people, is this:
6 We
believe, based on our GCAT, and based on
7 what
we've done so far, that Gadsden County
8 will
not have F schools next year because of
9 the
dedication and hard work of the teachers
10 and
the community people there.
11 And
I thank you for your time.
12 I
think I took just 3 minutes, I believe.
13 Any
questions?
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Any questions?
15 Thank
you very much.
16 MR.
DUPONT: Thank you, sir.
17 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Good luck.
18 MR.
DUPONT: Yes, sir.
19 GOVERNOR
BUSH: There's an OCAT, I know;
20 there's
a GCAT, there's an FCAT. Is there a
21 PCAT?
22 PBCAT.
23 MS.
SAFLEY: Governor, our -- now I'd like
24 to
represent (sic) Duval County and
25 Superintendent
Fryer.
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1 And then I'm going to ask Secretary Horne
2 to
come up for closing comments.
3 GOVERNOR
BUSH: All right.
4 Good
morning.
5 MR.
FRYER: Good morning, Governor, members
6 of
the Cabinet. From one Major General to a
7 Lieutenant
General, congratulations, and I wish
8 you
the best.
9 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Good to see you.
10 MR.
FRYER: My wife gave me the same
11 lecture,
so I understand that. It must be a
12 standard
thing they get.
13 My
two folks are handing out some books to
14 you
to help you follow along some of the things
15 that
we're doing, Governor.
16 If
you'll look in Section 1, there's a --
17 an
executive summary that describes the
18 totality,
in very brief form, of our assistance
19 plans
for all of these challenged schools.
20 And
on the third page, you'll see a little
21 spreadsheet
that should help, again in summary
22 form,
naming the schools, talking about the --
23 the
variety of issues that affect the
24 performance
in these schools.
25 Leadership,
of course, is one. And we've
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1 looked at all those schools where we thought
2 leadership
needed to be changed, and we've made
3 those
changes.
4 It's
not always a key, but sometimes is.
5 We
have an aggressive assistance plan, and
6 some
of the details of that are outlined there.
7 We
have the whole range of formatives and
8 various
diagnostics that you've heard from
9 other
superintendents up here: The Stand--
10 Stanford
Diagnostic Reading Test is that first
11 one
listed, and the Stanford Diagnostic Math
12 Test
is the second one.
13 We
give these tests to all of our school
14 children.
And then all of the other tests or
15 diagnostics
you see below that, including
16 DIBELS
and EDU test, which all the challenged
17 schools,
D and F schools have.
18 Each
school has its own selected
19 instruments
that they use that are integrated
20 theme
tests and those sorts of things to follow
21 student
progress.
22 You'll
see in the next column that we have
23 assistance
teams, both at the District and the
24 regional
level. And these are drilled down
25 efforts
where we take a whole team to a school,
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1 and drill down to the classroom level and
2 really
look at what is going on in the
3 classrooms,
and the student work, to see how
4 it's
proceeding as we go along.
5 And
that's as important as all these other
6 diagnostics.
7 We
have a number of other things we've done
8 in
that next column. You will see back in one
9 of
the other sections, a spreadsheet that will
10 show
how much money we've added to each of
11 those
schools. And it's a considerable amount.
12 We've
installed a considerable amount of
13 technology
as well. We have Compass learning
14 in
all of our high schools, we have Read 180 in
15 the
middle schools, we're using EDU test in all
16 of
the challenged schools.
17 And,
of course, we -- we have extensive
18 safety
net programs throughout our system now.
19 And
these safety net programs are tied to the
20 Sunshine
State Standards, our own
21 internationally
benchmarked performance
22 standards,
that are aligned with
23 Sunshine
State.
24 And
these standards are -- we have
25 standards
checklists, and the teachers in the
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1 safety net programs after school or before
2 school
are tied to the teachers in the daytime
3 so
that we're finding out where those students
4 are
day-by-day, and trying to bring them up
5 day-by-day
to those standards.
6 Some
of the barriers I just mentioned, a
7 few
things that concern us, and the two I --
8 that
bother me the most are really, it's
9 difficult,
except in the 10th grade, to get
10 student
ownership of the FCAT. It's something
11 that
we -- we're thinking about how we can do
12 better.
13 We
-- as we've interviewed students, we've
14 found
that a lot of them just -- as they call
15 it,
Christmas tree the test, because they don't
16 see
any consequence for them. The consequence
17 is
for the teacher and for the principal and
18 the
school system, but it's not for the
19 individual
child.
20 The
-- the trouble is, take a block
21 high
school, for example. There's no way to
22 directly
connect the test results, not only
23 might
they come out too late to connect them to
24 some
grade, but it might not align with a
25 particular
course that they're having.
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1 So connecting it to grades doesn't work
2 very
well. This -- this is one significant
3 problem
with the FCAT. Tenth grade's not a
4 problem.
And certainly in the elementary
5 grades,
it's not a big problem either.
6 But
middle and high schools that kids begin
7 to
start gaining things and decide what they
8 think
is important, even though you motivate
9 them
every way you can.
10 GOVERNOR
BUSH: It's -- it's one tool used
11 to
-- to determine whether a child is going to
12 be
promoted.
13 MR.
FRYER: Right.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: That -- that hasn't
15 connected
yet?
16 MR.
FRYER: It -- it -- it hasn't yet. We,
17 you
know, just find a lot of students who think
18 that
if they have --
19 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, the reason that --
20 the
only reason it wouldn't be connected is
21 it's
not being used.
22 MR.
FRYER: No, it is being used. It
23 definitely
is being used.
24 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Wouldn't it -- wouldn't
25 that
be enough of an incentive for someone in
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1 9th grade that does the Christmas tree, which I
2 assume
just means -- you know, you just do --
3 MR.
FRYER: Well --
4 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- whatever you want.
5 MR.
FRYER: -- if a student does well all
6 through
the year, and then does poorly on the
7 FCAT,
and you get the FCAT grades at the very
8 end
of the year, and they have a big decision
9 to
make whether you hold the student back on
10 the
basis of one test.
11 And
so --
12 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Right. And you don't.
13 MR.
FRYER: -- that's -- you know, that's a
14 problem.
15 So
we're -- we're working on it. But it is
16 a
problem --
17 GOVERNOR
BUSH: But if -- if -- if a
18 student
does poorly, you know, maybe he's on
19 the
margin, which I'm sure a lot of kids are --
20 the
kids that would feel motivated to do what
21 you
described probably aren't, like, excelling
22 in
--
23 MR.
FRYER: Governor, as you know, we held
24 back
48 percent of our 9th graders two years in
25 a
row. So we do not have great inflation. I
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1 guarantee you we're --
2 GOVERNOR
BUSH: That's my -- that's my
3 point,
because you -- you are the leader in
4 the
--
5 MR.
FRYER: Right.
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- upper grades, as it
7 relates
to social --
8 MR.
FRYER: Right.
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- promotion policies. And
10 I'm
surprised that that would be -- it would --
11 I
would think that that -- you have enough
12 motivation
factors --
13 MR.
FRYER: Yeah.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- or disincentives or
15 whatever
--
16 MR.
FRYER: We do.
17 But
there are still some ways that students
18 find
to game us. I -- that's all I'm saying
19 really.
20 And
professional development really is the
21 key
limitation that I find in the District.
22 That's
-- that's probably minor. I've listed
23 it
there first.
24 But
professional development time, I think,
25 is
a key limitation, maybe for all districts,
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1 but for us, certainly. If I could have more
2 professional
development time, we could do
3 better,
particularly when you look at the
4 stability
of teachers in the inner city
5 schools.
6 Our
challenged schools have a real churn of
7 teachers,
and we've applied all kinds of
8 efforts,
including financial incentives to keep
9 them
there. But there -- there is still a much
10 higher
turnover rate.
11 If
you go back to Section 3, you'll see
12 some
charts. The beginning chart show --
13 there's
a tabular format that shows some of
14 the
-- just selected tests.
15 And
then there are some bar charts that
16 show
how our students did on the FCAT, and
17 then,
if you will -- in the challenged schools.
18 Back
toward the back are some goals. The
19 red
line represents a target that would get
20 these
schools up to a C. And you can see at
21 the
last testing where we were.
22 And
we have many other instruments,
23 of
course, that I mentioned earlier. But this
24 is
just one example of what we use.
25 If
you go to Section 5, you see a whole
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1 set of rubrics, which are used by the teachers,
2 and
by the -- the District assistance teams to
3 go
into the schools and examine what's
4 happened.
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: So, John, you take the --
6 the
-- the Stanford --
7 MR.
FRYER: -- Diagnostic Reading Test.
8 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- that -- that reading
9 test,
you can convert that or make some
10 estimation
--
11 MR.
FRYER: We can. We've done a
12 correlation,
we have a pretty good predictor on
13 that
with regard to the FCAT.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Really?
15 MR.
FRYER: We surely do. Be glad to show
16 anybody,
and do a --
17 And
so that's very, very helpful for us, as
18 well
as the Stanford Diagnostic Math -- Math
19 Test.
20 And
I have concerns -- frankly, out of all
21 these
schools, I still have concerns about
22 two
-- one high school and one middle school,
23 and
we're taking some additional aggressive
24 efforts
to solve the problems there.
25 Has
to do with a whole host of factors, but
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1 there'll always be a couple that'll be at the
2 top
of the list.
3 So
--
4 GOVERNOR
BUSH: And the others you think
5 are
--
6 MR.
FRYER: I think the others will come
7 out
just fine.
8 Those
two, I still have concerns about.
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Any questions?
10 MR.
FRYER: Okay.
11 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you.
12 That's
--
13 MR.
FRYER: Thank you, Governor.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: This actually is a lot more
15 information
than what we -- the last meeting we
16 had
when they talked about the schools
17 providing
information on the Internet,
18 remember?
19 This
is -- this is -- I don't know why we
20 didn't
get this. This is good.
21 MR.
HORNE: Thank you, Governor.
22 I
-- I sensed from two weeks ago, a little
23 level
of frustration in -- in the reporting
24 mechanisms
that we were not getting -- the
25 Cabinet
was not getting the kind of information
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1 about where our struggling schools are going at
2 this
point.
3 Screening,
diagnosing, and progress
4 monitoring
are the key. Matter of fact, I
5 think
they -- I would be -- I think I could
6 almost
declare to tell you that FCAT, A+, and
7 Assistance
Plus is the best thing that's ever
8 happened
to poor students. And I'm talking
9 about
poor students that are in the bottom
10 quartile
of every school.
11 Clearly,
putting this kind of emphasis on
12 the
struggling students is showing the kind of
13 progress
that we want.
14 I
know that a few weeks ago, we began to
15 talk
about the success that we're having. And
16 I
think you've gotten a little bit of a flavor
17 today
of the different kinds of activities that
18 are
going on -- the different types of progress
19 monitoring
that are going -- the different
20 types
of assessments and evaluations and the
21 diagnosis
that are going on in our -- our
22 struggling
schools.
23 Two
weeks ago, as you know, we kind of
24 unveiled
what the DOE has as far as an on-line
25 reporting
system.
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1 As you know, this is in statute. The
2 double
F schools report monthly, the F schools
3 report
quarterly. And that reporting is
4 required
by statute.
5 And
our on-line format was designed to get
6 this
input. And we -- different people had a
7 lot
of input into how that would be structured.
8 And
it's an on-going thing.
9 I
have to tell you, it's a -- it's a work
10 in
progress. And we're going to continue to
11 improve
this on-line reporting system.
12 And
today when you go to the DOE website,
13 you
can click on that. And, matter of fact,
14 when
you click on a double F school, you're
15 going
to get the most update -- updated
16 information,
information that basically has
17 just
been brought forth, and just in the last
18 week
or two.
19 And
so the November data is in the -- is in
20 there
now. It's there. You can click -- as of
21 today,
if you can click on a double F school,
22 you
can click on and get that current report.
23 And
we'll continue to update that as -- as
24 we
all know, I think, that your distaste for
25 acronyms,
we've tried to clean that up. We've
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1 gotten rid of acronyms. We're spelling things
2 out
real clearly to make sure that that's the
3 case.
4 The
ten double F schools actually now on
5 the
on-line reporting have a hot link to the --
6 to
their School Improvement Plans. And in a
7 couple
of cases -- in two cases on the double F
8 schools,
it actually has an additional link to
9 the
District's Intervention Programs as -- as
10 well.
11 So
we're improving our on-line reporting,
12 and
we're continued to be committed to make
13 sure
-- and we're not going to rest until we
14 really
have a real-time system that you can
15 look
into -- peer into that classroom and see
16 how
well an individual classroom and a group of
17 students
are doing.
18 And
my goal, long-term, is to make sure
19 that's
available in every school in the state
20 of
Florida. But first we're going to put our
21 effort
right now on the struggling schools, our
22 F
schools.
23 The
issue is simple: How do you know on a
24 regular
basis what kids are learning so we can
25 adjust
instruction?
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1 That's the question. That's the challenge.
2 Progress
monitoring, as you know, has built
3 in
the Just Read, Florida, program. And 37 of
4 our
41 elementary schools are in various stages
5 of
implementing.
6 As
you know, we have a progress monitoring
7 system
developed by Joe Torgesen. That first
8 assessment
really kind of took place in
9 October.
10 I
don't have all the details and all the
11 results
yet. But as soon as I do, we'll be
12 making
another assessment very soon as part of
13 the
Just Read, Florida. And I hope that we can
14 speed
that process up so that we can have true
15 real-time
information so that we can all know
16 how
well we're progressing in that regard.
17 I've
also been working with the
18 superintendents
association, because they're
19 out
there developing many different variations
20 of
progress monitoring.
21 And,
as you know, there are some smaller
22 counties
that don't have the resources to buy
23 the
most technologically-driven kind of
24 progress
monitoring and assessment and
25 diagnosis
kind of a system.
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1 And so we're trying to pull together some
2 resources.
And we're trying to make sure that
3 in
due time, that every county, every district,
4 every
school has the kinds of tools that we
5 want
them to have.
6 And
so I think that we're making the
7 progress.
8 I
think it's clear that you can see, our
9 superintendents
take it very seriously. They
10 take
the challenge very seriously, and they're
11 going
to continue to work hard.
12 And
I think that as we continue to refine
13 the
on-line reporting system, that we will have
14 something,
Governor, that you can be proud of,
15 and
this Cabinet can be proud of, that we can
16 show
the kind of progress that these struggling
17 students
should demonstrate.
18 And
I -- I -- I hope that all the
19 superintendents
will -- will take the challenge
20 to
not have any failing schools.
21 I
know that some may want to hedge on that
22 bet
a little bit. But we cannot hedge -- we
23 cannot
hedge, and we cannot flinch.
24 And
I will continue to plod, push, pull,
25 drag,
whatever it takes, to make sure that we
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1 don't leave any struggling students behind, and
2 that
we truly can show that every student's
3 gaining
more than a year's worth of knowledge.
4 We
cannot leave these struggling children
5 behind.
We cannot do that. And we will not do
6 that.
7 I
promise that.
8 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you, Jim.
9 Any
questions or comments?
10 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: Thank you.
11 I
want to thank Secretary Horne for his
12 hard
work and great presentation this morning.
13 I
also know that today is my last meeting
14 as
Education Commissioner. And I wanted to
15 thank
Robin, too, Safley, for really stepping
16 in
the breach.
17 She
is a multitasker. And I just wanted to
18 publicly
thank her and -- for all her hard
19 work.
20 And,
Governor, there's a lot of Generals up
21 here
today.
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: There sure are.
23 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: And -- and I wanted to
24 congratulate
General Milligan, and also thank
25 General
Doran for his tremendous help.
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December 11, 2002
1 But particularly, I wanted to thank
2 General
Smith. He is the only former
3 Attorney
General on the dais with us today, and
4 he's
been a -- a tremendous friend and a -- a
5 great
advisor.
6 And
I just wanted to publicly thank you for
7 your
-- your friendship.
8 Thank
you.
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you, Jim.
10 MS.
SAFLEY: And, Governor, that concludes
11 the
last agenda for the State Board of
12 Education.
13 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you, Robin.
14 History.
15 (The
State Board of Education Agenda was
16 concluded.)
17 *
* *
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Administration Commission.
2 No?
3 MR.
STRUHS: I don't believe there is an
4 agenda
today for that.
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: We're going to defer the
6 whole
agenda to January 28th, 2003, Cabinet
7 meeting.
8 Okay.
I'm sure there's a reason for it. I
9 just
--
10 Oh,
that's right.
11 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: That's the reason.
12 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Board of Trustees.
13 MR.
STRUHS: Item 1 is a request by the
14 Department
of Children and Families to approve
15 three
different sublease agreements.
16 And
we believe that this is in the public
17 interest,
and recommend approval of it. We
18 have
somebody here --
19 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Motion.
20 MR.
STRUHS: -- who can --
21 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Second.
22 MR.
STRUHS: -- speak to the details --
23 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without
objection, the item passes.
25 MR.
STRUHS: Item 2 is a Murphy Act
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1 conveyance, two different conveyances totaling
2 18.32
acres, both in Nassau County, one to
3 Lorraine
Pickett, one to Joseph Clark Purvis.
4 (Commissioner
Crist exited the room.)
5 MR.
STRUHS: The result would be $18,775 to
6 be
deposited in the Internal Improvement Trust
7 Fund.
8 SECRETARY
SMITH: Motion.
9 ATTORNEY
GENERAL DORAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
11 Without
objection, the item passes.
12 David,
could you speak up?
13 MR.
STRUHS: I'm sorry?
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: I'm a little hard of
15 hearing.
16 MR.
STRUHS: I'll speak up.
17 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you.
18 MR.
STRUHS: Item 3 is a --
19 Is
that too much?
20 GOVERNOR
BUSH: We're okay.
21 MR.
STRUHS: I'm sorry.
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: I love you.
23 MR.
STRUHS: Item 3 is -- Item 3 is
24 actually
an interesting story. You know,
25 the
-- the -- the rap on public lands and the
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1 way we manage them is too often we sell low and
2 buy
high.
3 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Yeah.
4 MR.
STRUHS: And -- and here is evidence
5 that
we do quite the contrary.
6 This
is an example where there's a law that
7 allows
IFAS to convey their property, sell them
8 off
--
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Is this the -- is this to
10 prove
the rule, or is this -- is this the
11 exception
that proves the rule that --
12 MR.
STRUHS: This -- this -- this disabuses
13 people
of the mythology.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well done.
15 Touche.
16 MR.
STRUHS: We -- we -- we've come a long
17 way
over four years, sir.
18 And
-- and I wanted to highlight it,
19 because
here's an example where IFAS needs to
20 sell
these properties, and here's an
21 opportunity
where they can sell it to
22 Manatee
County schools.
23 So
everybody ends up being better off. The
24 remarkable
thing here though is rather than
25 selling
it as a state for the value as it would
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1 currently be as agricultural land, we were
2 entrepreneurial
and -- and market oriented;
3 recognized
the highest and best use for this
4 land;
and were able to take that into account
5 in
terms of the appraisal.
6 And
that's why we're getting nearly
7 12
million dollars for this piece of property
8 as
we -- as we sell it.
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Why don't we -- why don't
10 we
pause here and ask the -- your team that is
11 involved
in these efforts to stand up so we can
12 give
them a round of applause.
13 MR.
STRUHS: All right.
14 (Applause.)
15 GOVERNOR
BUSH: I think it's only
16 appropriate
that I bring that up, since I --
17 for
the last year, I've been giving you guys so
18 much
grief about this.
19 When
it happens the other way around, when
20 we're
the -- we have to take it in the shorts,
21 it's
nice to be able to win one here.
22 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Is it -- if --
23 MR.
STRUHS: Thank you.
24 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: -- well, let me just
25 ask
you, David, now, if this was a private
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1 sector buy-- buyer, they'd have gotten it for
2 5
million, right?
3 MR.
STRUHS: Oh, man.
4 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: I mean, I'm just --
5 like,
that's the way it usually is. But we've
6 got
a public sector buyer, we can gild him for
7 the
whole deal.
8 GOVERNOR
BUSH: All we have to do is just
9 sell
our land to school districts --
10 (Commissioner
Crist entered the room.)
11 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- all the time, we're set.
12 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: We're going to be
13 needing
a lot of it, so we may as well.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Yes, they are.
15 MR.
STRUHS: I recommend approval of
16 Item
3, please.
17 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Move.
18 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Second.
19 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without
objection, the item passes.
21 MR.
STRUHS: Item 4 is an exchange of land.
22 It's
2.81 acres of State-owned land exchanged
23 for
5.583 acres, an exchange between
24 Highway
Safety and Motor Vehicles and
25 Gulf
Coast Community College.
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1 David Westberry is here. He's the
2 Deputy
Executive Director of Highway Safety
3 should
you have any questions.
4 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Is there a motion?
5 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Second.
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Is there a motion first?
7 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Motion.
8 ATTORNEY
GENERAL DORAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
10 Without
objection, the item passes.
11 MR.
STRUHS: Thank you.
12 Item
5, recommend approval of this item.
13 It's
an option agreement for 602 acres
14 adjoining
the Lake Talquin State Forest. This
15 is
a Department of Agriculture project.
16 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Motion.
17 ATTORNEY
GENERAL DORAN: Second.
18 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without
objection, the item passes.
20 MR.
STRUHS: Item 6, recommend approval of
21 this
item. Pleased to bring this one to you at
22 89
percent of the approved value.
23 This
will improve public access to public
24 lands,
it will improve wildlife management.
25 It's
a good buy, and we recommend approval.
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1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
2 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Second.
3 ATTORNEY
GENERAL DORAN: Second.
4 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without
objection, the item is approved.
6 MR.
STRUHS: Item 7, recommended approval
7 for
an option agreement to acquire 346.82 acres
8 within
the Wekiva-Ocala Greenway Florida
9 Forever
Project.
10 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Motion.
11 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Second.
12 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
13 Without
objection, the item passes.
14 MR.
STRUHS: Item 8, we are pleased that
15 the
Chairman of Lee County, Ray Judah, is here
16 to
speak to this item.
17 The
Board will remember, I think, that this
18 item
was also before you four weeks ago, and
19 Mr.
Crist asked for it to be deferred.
20 So
we're bringing it back to you today.
21 Happily,
I think we're bringing it back to you
22 in
a -- in a better form.
23 When
you saw it four weeks ago, it was at
24 two
million fifty thousand dollars.
25 Today
it is before you as an item at
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1 one million eight hundred thousand dollars.
2 That
reduction in price was achieved by
3 additional
negotiations with the seller, as
4 well
as the very, very quick and -- and timely
5 involvement
of the County, who stepped up to
6 the
plate to help make it more affordable for
7 the
Board of Trustees, should you choose to
8 exercise
the option agreement.
9 This
would be an example, if you approved
10 it,
where we would actually buy the property at
11 86
percent of its highest and best use.
12 Again,
recognizing that the County has not
13 done
any up-zoning of this property, but that
14 the
market perception of the property is -- is
15 clearly
one that would give it a higher value.
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Say that again? There's a
17 new
concept.
18 Describe
that again. That's a new --
19 that's
-- you're breaking new ground in
20 real
estate --
21 MR.
STRUHS: Well, it -- it's not unlike --
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Perceived value not -- not
23 established
on development rights, just on --
24 just
because it's cool?
25 MR.
STRUHS: Well, it's not unlike Item 3,
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1 where in Item 3, even though it is zoned
2 agriculture,
we were able to sell it for
3 12
million dollars because the -- the -- the --
4 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Highest and best use.
5 MR.
STRUHS: -- legally permissible use
6 that
would define highest and best use got for
7 the
State that higher value.
8 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Right.
9 MR.
STRUHS: This is a similar situation
10 where
the County has not changed the zoning of
11 this
particular parcel, but has changed the
12 zoning
of many other parcels around it --
13 GOVERNOR
BUSH: But it intends to -- it --
14 it
-- I mean, it didn't have to change the
15 value.
This -- we're -- that -- that hasn't
16 changed
from our last conversation.
17 Correct?
18 I
mean, you just found another person to
19 put
more money up.
20 MR.
STRUHS: The only thing that has
21 changed
on this is a lower price.
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, two things have
23 changed:
Someone's filling -- the -- the price
24 has
been lowered slightly --
25 MR.
STRUHS: That's right.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- still based on the
2 perceived
development rights that don't exist
3 right
now -- that somehow they're perceived,
4 and
--
5 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Well --
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- and then the -- and the
7 other
thing is that Lee County or somebody else
8 is
putting up money.
9 Right?
10 MR.
STRUHS: Right.
11 But
-- but as -- but as you well know,
12 the
-- the -- the market value, at least
13 through
the appraisal process, is determined by
14 highest
and best use, considering the -- the
15 legally
permissible probable use of the
16 property.
17 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, I don't like the
18 "probable"
part. That's -- that's the part
19 that
-- this is in an area that is
20 environmentally-sensitive,
and that's the
21 established
policy of the State. And the
22 counties
run counter to that by giving
23 development
rights that otherwise they don't
24 have,
I still have the same problem.
25 Now,
when we sell -- I don't want to sound
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1 like I'm hypocritical here -- when we sell and
2 that
-- that benefit goes to the State, I'm
3 willing
to accept that.
4 You
sell all the property you want at
5 perceived
values, but in purchase of property,
6 I
don't think it should be based on the fact
7 that
a County government can establish by
8 changing
development rights, can -- can -- can
9 change
value.
10 MR.
STRUHS: Allow me --
11 GOVERNOR
BUSH: That change still applies.
12 I
mean, I --
13 MR.
STRUHS: -- but let me -- let me
14 introduce,
if I might, the Chairman of the
15 Lee
County Commission, Ray Judah, who is
16 here
--
17 GOVERNOR
BUSH: I know he is. So that's
18 why
I -- I wanted to establish the predicate.
19 MR.
STRUHS: And -- and I'm sure he will
20 remind
the Board that, in fact, they have not
21 done
anything to change the zoning of the
22 property.
23 Nonetheless,
the --
24 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Please.
25 MR.
STRUHS: -- appraisal process
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1 perceives --
2 GOVERNOR
BUSH: This is -- you missed
3 last
-- was it two weeks ago or a month ago's
4 lively
debate we had on this subject. So --
5 MR.
JUDAH: Thanks for the setup.
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you for being here.
7 (Treasurer
Gallagher exited the room.)
8 MR.
JUDAH: Good afternoon, Governor,
9 and
-- and to the Honorable Cabinet members.
10 I
appreciate the opportunity to be here.
11 And,
quite frankly, I felt certainly as
12 Chairman
of the Board of County Commissioners,
13 I
owed it to you, because of the spirited
14 discussion
that you had at the last meeting. I
15 want
to thank you for deferring this issue to
16 have
-- give me the opportunity to talk with
17 you
one-on-one.
18 And
I share your frustration, because it --
19 it
wasn't too many years ago when the State of
20 Florida
purchased the Sahdev property, the --
21 the
larger tract of land, which unfortunately
22 the
density had been doubled by action by the
23 Board
of County Commissioners. I was the one
24 dissenting
vote.
25 Rezoning
was -- was -- was approved. A --
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1 through a -- a plan development district option
2 that
actually allowed for the developer to --
3 to
have an increase in density above the land
4 use
category, Mr. Governor. And -- and to me,
5 it
was most unfortunate.
6 In
fact, the Estero committee was so
7 incensed
with it, they went ahead and demanded
8 the
Board of County Commissioners an
9 opportunity
to pursue a comprehensive sector
10 plan
to ultimately amend the Comprehensive Plan
11 to
ensure more accountability for growth in the
12 Estero
area.
13 In
fact, we went so far as to actually
14 establishing
a Estero Planning Panel so they
15 will
review all rezoning requests before they
16 come
to the Board of County Commissioners,
17 which
is a good step.
18 The
-- the situation here, Governor, and --
19 and
Cabinet members is that with -- with the
20 parcel
known as Estero 60, it's part of, as you
21 know,
the Estero Bay Florida Federal Program.
22 And
we're very appreciative of the Division
23 of
State Lands and the Bureau of Land
24 Acquisition,
and -- and their contributing
25 efforts
working with Lee County.
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1 And, as you know, our county has
2 contributed
with land acquisition through our
3 Corkscrew
Regional Ecosystem Watershed Land
4 Trust
Program in the southeastern part of
5 Lee
County, and also the Conservation 20/20
6 Land
Acquisition Program voted by the voters in
7 1996.
8 This
is also a partnership, and so our
9 Board
of County Commissioners felt that we
10 needed
to address the -- the matter that you
11 were
concerned with with regards to the price
12 for
the property. And so we have agreed to
13 kick
in the -- the $200,000.
14 And
as you stated, the developer has agreed
15 to
reduce it by some 50,000. So there's
16 already
a quarter million dollars difference
17 from
the last time you addressed --
18 (Treasurer
Gallagher entered the room.)
19 MR.
JUDAH: -- this issue.
20 The
dilemma that I as -- as a member of our
21 Board
can try to convey to you in a nutshell is
22 that
when this was -- issue was first brought
23 to
our attention as an amendment to the
24 Comprehensive
Plan, our Board was concerned.
25 They
-- the -- the developer wanted up to
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1 two units to the acre.
2 It's
a rural land use category, it only
3 allows
one unit to the acre. And he wanted it
4 amended
to the suburban land use category
5 which
-- outlying suburban, which allows up to
6 three
units to the acre; and he asked for two.
7 There
was no way we at that time could
8 have
denied him. I was against the Sahdev
9 property
because it was in the coastal high
10 hazard
area.
11 And
our Comprehensive Plan specifically
12 states,
do not increase density in the coastal
13 high
hazard area for fear of storm surge and
14 hurricane
evacuation concerns, and that's why I
15 voted
against Sahdev.
16 This
is outside the coastal high hazard
17 area.
And it's in an area where, as you know,
18 Estero
is really growing rapidly, and land
19 prices
have gone up. Most of it is uplands.
20 Of
the some 60 acres, about 7 of it is
21 wetlands,
that slough that goes through there.
22 It
real-- it is right there adjacent to
23 Estero
Bay and the mangrove wetlands that --
24 that
buffer it.
25 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Tell -- tell me why you
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1 feel -- the -- this is kind of the thing --
2 I
think my -- an area that I need to have it
3 explained
to me.
4 If
-- if a property is zoned X, and someone
5 wants
to rezone it to 2X in terms of density,
6 don't
you have the right to reject it --
7 MR.
JUDAH: We do --
8 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- irrespective of what
9 your
Comprehensive Plan says that, here are the
10 conditions
that you look at for determining
11 whether
rezoning has occurred or not?
12 MR.
JUDAH: I apologize. I didn't mean to
13 interrupt.
14 Certainly
we do, sir, based on sound land
15 management
regulations.
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, here's -- okay.
17 So
-- so this is where I -- I respectfully
18 disagree
with the decision of your Commission.
19 If
this is an -- an area that according
20 to
-- that -- that has been established as a --
21 you
know, Florida Forever, CARL area, isn't
22 that
good enough?
23 I
mean, we're buying this land to preserve
24 it.
You're -- you're saying, well, it's
25 upland,
but there are -- actually there are
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1 serious environmental issues on upland property
2 that
we want to protect as well. It's all part
3 of
one ecosystem.
4 We've
established this as a State policy;
5 you're
contradicting it after we've established
6 it,
which you have the right to do; and then
7 the
entrepreneur -- I don't know if he's here.
8 I
loved that guy. I mean, he was -- he was a
9 classic
guy.
10 He's
-- you know, he's worked hard to -- to
11 go
in front of you to -- to get additional
12 density
to either develop the property or sell
13 it
to us at that price.
14 And
can't you see how we're getting the
15 shaft
on that?
16 MR.
JUDAH: Sir, I -- I agree with you --
17 GOVERNOR
BUSH: You're just joining in on
18 getting
the shaft when you add 200,000 to it
19 and
lower our price.
20 MR.
JUDAH: I -- I ag-- I agree with your
21 position
wholeheartedly.
22 Unfortunately,
our legal counsel is telling
23 us
that we can't deny rezoning based on a
24 pending
purchase by a State agency.
25 I
would -- I would love to take that
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1 position. We can't -- I'll be perfectly honest
2 with
you, sir, because when it came back from
3 DCA,
and they had rejected -- they had rejected
4 the
Comp Plan amendment, we, in turn, rejected
5 it.
6 The
developer then came back and said,
7 listen,
we will take care of providing for
8 utilities
instead of septic tanks; we will
9 cluster
the density; we will go through a
10 planned
unit development; and we will repackage
11 this,
and again bring the amendment back to
12 you,
the Board of County Commissioners, to
13 amend
the Comprehensive Plan.
14 I
don't know how we can reject that.
15 I
don't know how we can reject that.
16 I
would if I could.
17 GOVERNOR
BUSH: But wasn't it
18 established
-- I mean, the DCA rejected it as
19 a
--
20 MR.
JUDAH: They did. But --
21 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- comp plan.
22 MR.
JUDAH: -- at that time the developer
23 had
not come through with saying he was going
24 to
repackage it providing utilities, coming
25 through
as a planned development, and also to
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1 cluster the density and stay away from the
2 slough.
3 I
empathize, and I understand where you're
4 coming
from, because I appreciate and support
5 that
position.
6 We
have legal counsel though that's telling
7 us
--
8 GOVERNOR
BUSH: You may be. I'm -- I -- I
9 have
to punt on the legal stuff, but I -- I
10 don't
--
11 MR.
JUDAH: I wish I could.
12 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: All right. What's --
13 what's
the property worth without that -- all
14 that
stuff?
15 MR.
JUDAH: What's that now, the property's
16 worth
-- you mean, without the planned unit
17 development,
utilities?
18 All
I can base it on is the appraisals that
19 were
done. And it was based on -- the -- the
20 property,
the highest and best use, and Florida
21 law
allows for that.
22 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Right.
23 But
--
24 GOVERNOR
BUSH: But not on the highest --
25 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: How about what
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1 it's --
2 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- and best use of what
3 existed
--
4 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: -- what exists --
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- in terms of --
6 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: -- today. They
7 haven't
gotten that zoning change.
8 What
is the value of that property --
9 MR.
JUDAH: Oh, I apologize. I -- I'd
10 have
to defer to -- to your staff on this, if I
11 could.
12 GOVERNOR
BUSH: We're going to have to
13 change
the law.
14 Chairman,
thank you for coming.
15 Any
other questions, or are you -- to
16 the
--
17 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: We did have a
18 question
in relation -- I did anyway, in
19 relationship
to the Smith -- Smith property
20 that's
adjacent to it, which is kind of
21 critical
to whether this slough is of any real
22 value.
23 MR.
STRUHS: Yes.
24 I
can -- I can speak to that.
25 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: I don't want to put
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1 you on the spot in any --
2 MR.
STRUHS: No, no. It's --
3 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: -- negotiations
4 either.
5 MR.
STRUHS: -- it's fine. I'm -- I'm
6 prepared
for that.
7 Let
me just point to the map though.
8 This
is the Smith parcel here.
9 Can
you see that?
10 What
-- what is before you today is -- is
11 this
section here, the DeSalvo parcel. This is
12 the
Smith parcel.
13 We've
been working with the owners of the
14 Smith
parcel. And while we don't have it
15 prepared
for today's agenda, we believe we will
16 bring
to the Board later the opportunity for
17 a
-- a land swap where -- where this parcel
18 here
would be swapped for a State-owned parcel
19 here
on U.S. 41, which is commercially far more
20 valuable.
21 To
the extent that it's not a
22 value-for-value
exchange, the cash difference,
23 which
would go in the State's favor, would be
24 made
in the form of a check to be deposited
25 into
your account.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If you acquire the
2 Smith
property, its utility is obviously not as
3 good
environmentally if you don't have at least
4 that
slough associated with the piece that
5 we're
looking at today.
6 MR.
STRUHS: That's very true, General.
7 You're
correct.
8 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Okay.
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Any other discussion?
10 Yeah.
11 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: Just a question.
12 This
was presented two weeks ago?
13 MR.
STRUHS: Four weeks ago.
14 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: Four weeks ago?
15 And
-- and now there's a $50,000
16 difference?
17 MR.
STRUHS: Well, to the Board, a quarter
18 of
a million dollars. The -- the -- the actual
19 sale
price is down by 50,000.
20 The
-- the difference -- the 200,000 being
21 made
up by Lee County.
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: The Commission has made a
23 good
faith effort here to try to accommodate
24 our
concerns, and the seller has -- has done
25 the
same.
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1 I mean, there's no -- no question about
2 that.
3 This
is a question of principle for me, and
4 may
not be the same for everybody else, and --
5 MR.
STRUHS: I -- I think maybe to state
6 the
obvious, the -- the issue is that the --
7 the
way that appraisals are done, they look at
8 highest
and best use, divorced from the
9 realities
of current zoning. But anticipated
10 zoning.
11 And
--
12 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Or -- or a Comp Plan,
13 I
mean, not just zoning, but -- but divorced
14 from
what the Comprehensive Plan says.
15 I
mean, you could have zoning that is
16 lower,
but you have the right, you know,
17 because
it's part of the comprehensive planning
18 process.
19 This
is a Comp Plan amendment -- this --
20 this
goes beyond that. And that's where I
21 think
the -- the -- my concern lies, because if
22 we're
-- if we can't figure out at the State
23 and
local level how to combine our policies --
24 I
mean, if our strategy is to buy certain lands
25 in
the path of development, and the County's
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1 process yields a different result, it
2 automatically
sets up higher prices for us to
3 pay.
4 And
we have limited money. We don't --
5 this
-- this isn't -- you know, we don't -- the
6 stuff
doesn't grow on trees. This is --
7 I
mean, we just went through the debt
8 affordability
study.
9 And
we're already -- as General Milligan
10 politely
pointed out, we're already, you know,
11 at
the -- reaching the top here.
12 So
I think we need to be very cautious
13 going
forward.
14 Yeah.
15 SECRETARY
SMITH: I don't think the
16 frustration
is when it's an area that's been
17 identified
as one that the State has a keen
18 interest
in acquisition. You know, local
19 governments
need to -- to work with us better
20 I
think, in not, you know, changing the
21 zoning
--
22 MR.
STRUHS: And it --
23 SECRETARY
SMITH: -- it jacks the price up.
24 And
I would say sometimes, you know, it's
25 better
to -- you know -- you know, vote your
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1 conscience, and if the lawyers think they can
2 take
you to court and make you do something
3 else,
let them take you to court.
4 Because
I just don't buy into, you know,
5 many
of these situations where lawyers stand up
6 and
tell bodies that are supposed to vote that,
7 you
know -- I mean, why have them vote if they
8 have
to do it?
9 I
mean, that's ridiculous.
10 MR.
STRUHS: I think you can sense that
11 we're
actually very --
12 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well --
13 MR.
STRUHS: -- sensitive --
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- let the Chairman speak,
15 because
he's the -- it's his lawyer that we're
16 a
little confused on.
17 Could
you explain how -- can you answer
18 the
--
19 MR.
STRUHS: Well, I -- I think you're --
20 you're
correct, the -- the Chairman should
21 speak
to that issue.
22 But
the -- the --
23 (Commissioner
Bronson exited the room.)
24 MR.
STRUHS: -- the more statewide concern,
25 I
think you get the sense that we're very
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1 sensitive to the issues you're raising here.
2 Going
back to the history of this program
3 now
a dozen years ago, one of the fundamental
4 issues
that we had to resolve as a state was
5 what
happened to property values when they were
6 put
within the boundaries of our -- our
7 conservation
programs.
8 And
we wanted very clearly as a State
9 ten
years ago, and then more recently
10 three
years ago now, with Florida Forever, to
11 make
it a willing seller program.
12 And
part of that balance was, if we were
13 going
to take private property, put it on our
14 map
as part of our conservation goals, and --
15 and
run it as a willing seller program, the
16 large
landowners in particular wanted to make
17 sure
that that in no way diluted their ability
18 to
make land use and development decisions.
19 So
that -- that's part of the tension that
20 exists
here.
21 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well --
22 SECRETARY
SMITH: Well --
23 GOVERNOR
BUSH: We have a system that
24 adjusts
-- developed just for the -- the
25 changing
nature of communities. The
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1 comprehensive planning process reflects the
2 fact
that this is not a rigid process that once
3 it's
established, it never is changed.
4 But
at the same time, when communities
5 change,
and Lee County is a great example of
6 the
conflict here, because you're -- you
7 have
-- first of all, you -- you're committed,
8 to
your credit, to protection of the pristine
9 areas
of the county, you're one of the faster
10 growing
regions of the state, and you have this
11 conflict
more than other places.
12 It
just seems to me that as the Comp Plan
13 is
adjusted and amended, if you don't take into
14 consideration
these larger strategic interests
15 which
you -- your county has bought into as
16 well,
that we're all going to be spending
17 more
-- paying more money than we need to.
18 And
-- and while I respect --
19 (Commissioner
Bronson entered the room.)
20 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- the entrepreneurial
21 nature
of the development process, it's the
22 reason
why I'm here. I wouldn't -- if I -- I
23 wouldn't
be able to afford doing what I'm
24 doing,
were it not for -- and I admired the guy
25 that
came here, because I -- I saw -- you know,
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1 it's the kind of stuff that we did.
2 That
doesn't mean that the State needs to
3 reward
it automatically because some lawyer
4 says
it's so.
5 MR.
JUDAH: Mr. Governor --
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Yes, please.
7 MR.
JUDAH: -- Cabinet members, and
8 Secretary
of State, first of all, I just wanted
9 to
reiterate, the County has made tremendous
10 strides
actually in partnership with the State.
11 In
fact, it wasn't just -- less than
12 two
years ago that we -- we went ahead and
13 budgeted
6 million dollars and bought over
14 300
acres of the Bunche Beach land, which is on
15 the
-- on the northern rim there of -- of
16 Estero
Bay.
17 We
recognize the importance of Estero Bay
18 itself
as the first aquatic preserve that the
19 State
helped to designate.
20 GOVERNOR
BUSH: That's right.
21 MR.
JUDAH: So we want to make -- at least
22 let
you know that -- that we don't expect, and
23 we
recognize in dollars are -- are shortened,
24 and
-- and -- and limited, that we want to be
25 able
a -- be a good partner and bring our
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1 funding forward, just as we're doing with this
2 project.
3 You
know, we have the same problem with
4 reservation
of future right-of-way for -- for
5 capital
road construction projects. We're told
6 it's
inverse condemnation if we attempt to do
7 that.
It's -- it's a major problem that
8 because
right-of-way acquisition is
9 two-and-a-half
times the construction costs of
10 the
roads themselves.
11 But,
believe me, we do not try to -- nor
12 attempt
to thwart State effort. We appreciate
13 the
partnership, and your willingness to
14 purchase
land in -- in Lee County.
15 It's
--
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Right-of-way's a different
17 law
though.
18 MR.
JUDAH: But I'm all favor -- I'm all in
19 favor
if you all would -- would revisit that
20 State
law.
21 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, I think -- I'm not
22 sure
we have to. That's my point.
23 I
-- I don't see where we have to change
24 our
State law to establish value, based on
25 perspective
development rights. I -- I --
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1 maybe I'm wrong. But that's more practice.
2 MR.
JUDAH: I --
3 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Is that a hint that I'm
4 supposed
to --
5 MS.
CASTILLE: No, sir.
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- keep my mouth shut?
7 MR.
STRUHS: Before -- before -- before
8 this
item is drawn to a close, I'd like to just
9 make
one more observation, please.
10 In
the last four years, there have been
11 only
two examples where the Board of Trustees
12 has
voted to authorize the use of
13 eminent
domain to protect something of -- of a
14 conservation
value.
15 It
-- it is something that this state and
16 this
Board has done very, very reluctantly.
17 In
fact, it was a unanimous vote, with a
18 recognition
that these resources here were so
19 extraordinary,
that this Board would even
20 resort
to the use of eminent domain, which
21 is
-- is extraordinary.
22 And
this parcel is a part of that -- of
23 that
larger project.
24 So
I just wanted to give it a sense of --
25 of
priority with that historical fact.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: At -- at the margin,
2 is
-- is it that extraordinary, is this piece
3 of
property that extraordinary?
4 MR.
STRUHS: I can -- I can invite the --
5 the
-- the resource experts to speak more --
6 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Well, I --
7 MR.
STRUHS: -- definitely about it.
8 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: -- I've heard the
9 resource
experts talk about this --
10 MR.
STRUHS: Sure.
11 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: -- and I still
12 I
guess have some question in my mind, if it is
13 that
extraordinary in terms of the
14 environmental
--
15 MR.
STRUHS: Yes, sir.
16 MS.
ANDREWS: Hi. I'm Katherine Andrews.
17 I'm
the Director of the Office of Coastal and
18 Aquatic
Managed Areas. And this is part of our
19 buffer
preserve.
20 If
you can see on the map, the Sahdev
21 parcel,
which is where you approved the
22 eminent
domain four years ago unanimously, was
23 here
in Section 19, and this is contiguous to
24 this.
25 And
the thing is is the lifeblood of this
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1 system is water. And you can see it. And you
2 can
see how Mullock Creek swings up around and
3 turns
into a slough here.
4 And
it's -- this is the filling which you
5 approved
two weeks ago.
6 And
you can see how the water just runs
7 down,
it runs through the Smith parcel, it runs
8 through
the DeSalvo parcel, and down into the
9 Estero
River.
10 So
it's -- this is one of those systems
11 that's
just connected by the water. And this
12 slough
is part of that water system, part of
13 that
watershed.
14 And
we do think it's worth protecting.
15 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Any other questions?
16 Another
lively debate.
17 Is
there a motion?
18 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Well, I'll move it
19 to
get it to a vote.
20 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Is there a second?
21 ATTORNEY
GENERAL DORAN: Second.
22 GOVERNOR
BUSH: There's a motion and a
23 second.
24 Any
other discussion?
25 All
in favor, say aye.
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1 All opposed, say no.
2 THE
CABINET: No.
3 Did
everybody vote?
4 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Yeah.
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Have you got the votes?
6 Thank
you very much.
7 Commissioner,
you -- can you stick around
8 for
a little bit? I'd love to -- to visit with
9 you
on this.
10 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: By the way, this
11 is
-- this is one of those votes that would
12 take
four, not five, right, because we're not
13 selling,
we're buying.
14 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Right.
15 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: And we're not sure
16 how
many it'll take next time.
17 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, we do -- we know --
18 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: So there's -- unless
19 a
law change that sort of spells it out --
20 GOVERNOR
BUSH: That's --
21 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: -- probably take
22 three,
or maybe two, depending on if the
23 Governor's
on the prevailing side or not, or
24 whatever.
25 And
so we're sort of up in the air.
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1 So, for whatever it's worth out there,
2 we're
not going to be doing much of this land
3 stuff
until May because with -- the
4 Legislature's
going to have to figure out --
5 GOVERNOR
BUSH: There's a quirk in the law
6 that
was --
7 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: -- what it'll be.
8 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- not adjusted when the
9 amendment
passed. So that's a --
10 ATTORNEY
GENERAL DORAN: Yeah.
11 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- legitimate point.
12 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: So we just -- you
13 want
to cut a quick deal and discount that
14 enough,
you might come back to us before we
15 adjourn.
16 MR.
STRUHS: Item 9?
17 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Obviously fifty grand
18 didn't
get it.
19 MR.
STRUHS: Are -- are we ready for
20 Item
9?
21 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Yes, we are.
22 MR.
STRUHS: Item 9 is the assignment of an
23 option
agreement to acquire 4,845 acres in the
24 Bombing
Range Ridge, Florida Forever Project.
25 If
I could just give just a slight
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1 explanation here. What we have is a single
2 parcel
owned by two different companies that
3 have
the underlying same ownership.
4 We
would propose that we go forward with
5 the
largest parcel at the price in your
6 briefing
document. There is a 430-acre parcel
7 embedded
in that where the option here would be
8 to
buy it at 88 percent -- 88 percent of the
9 approved
value, with that approved value still
10 to
be determined. But we have both a ceiling
11 and
a floor on that.
12 So
that that 430 acres again -- 88 percent
13 of
the approved value. The ceiling is at
14 2.9
million dollars, so that if for some reason
15 it
would come in above that, the State's under
16 no
obligation to proceed.
17 And
there's a floor at 2.4 million so if --
18 if
the approved value comes in below that, the
19 seller
is not compelled to sell.
20 So
we -- we've -- we've put some boundaries
21 around
it, and then we will, in fact, deliver
22 we
think that 88 percent value within that
23 window.
24 ATTORNEY
GENERAL DORAN: Move it.
25 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without
objection, the item passes.
3 MR.
STRUHS: Item 9 (sic), we recommend
4 approval
of this item, subject to special
5 easement
conditions, and the payment of
6 $17,000
-- $17,881.79.
7 This
is a -- this is an example where we're
8 actually
I think executing Board policy, which
9 is
to bring some of these existing channels
10 under
sovereign submerged land private
11 easements
through maintenance dredging
12 agreements.
13 SECRETARY
SMITH: Move Item 10.
14 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Second.
15 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
16 Without
objection, the item passes.
17 Item
11.
18 MR.
STRUHS: Thank you.
19 Item
11, recommend approval, subject to
20 approval
conditions, special lease conditions,
21 and
the payment of $27,283.97.
22 I'd
like to just add for the record here
23 that
this will yield some very important
24 environmental
improvements in this part of --
25 of
-- of Naples near the Gordon River.
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1 We will see net water quality improvements;
2 we
will see the removal of contaminated sed--
3 sediments;
we will see the -- the properties
4 reconfigured
for better basin flushing; we will
5 see
a substantial reduction in terms of number
6 of
boats that are actually stored there, both
7 on
land and in the water.
8 And
those improvements must be made before
9 the
new 16 slips on sovereign submerged land
10 would
be allowed to proceed.
11 ATTORNEY
GENERAL DORAN: Motion on 11.
12 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: Second.
13 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
14 Without
objection, the item passes.
15 MR.
STRUHS: Thank you.
16 The
last item, Number 12, we have a -- a
17 display
that if we can just have a second,
18 we'll
put it in front of you.
19 Thank
you for your patience.
20 On
-- on Item 12, what we're seeking to do
21 with
Item 12 is to begin the public rulemaking
22 process,
the consultative public process by
23 which
--
24 (Secretary
Smith exited the room.)
25 MR.
STRUHS: -- we look at what rules we
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1 want to have the Board adopt for the location
2 of
fiber optic cables, telecommunication
3 cables.
4 Obviously,
this is just beginning that
5 process.
The rules that would come out of that
6 process
would be brought back to the Board of
7 Trustees
in the spring for your further review
8 and
consideration.
9 Our
draft proposal that we would now like
10 to
share with this public review and
11 consultation
process keeps all of the existing
12 easement
permitting processes in place.
13 It
doesn't do anything to take away from
14 the
existing process that we use for these
15 types
of easements.
16 It
is only additive.
17 What
we would do through our rule is ask
18 that
the Board of Trustees delegate to the
19 Department
the ability to issue easements on an
20 accelerated
process in certain preapproved
21 locations.
22 Applicants
who want to put these
23 connections
to the state of Florida would still
24 have
every right that they have now to propose
25 cables
wherever they want, whenever they want.
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1 But they would then use the existing
2 process
that is still in place today.
3 The
final thing that the rule would likely
4 establish
would be an exclusion zone from south
5 Dade
County near Sunny Isles through the
6 Florida
Keys in -- in Monroe County.
7 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Exclusion zone for --
8 MR.
STRUHS: For -- for cables.
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: No cable at --
10 MR.
STRUHS: The fiber --
11 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- all.
12 MR.
STRUHS: -- optic cables.
13 Right.
14 And
then that -- and that -- and that is a
15 point
that has not received much negative
16 reaction.
I think that's widely appreciated.
17 The
-- the -- the southern boundary sort of
18 being
designated because that is where the
19 current
southerly most connection currently
20 exists.
21 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Right.
22 Yes,
Commissioner.
23 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Governor, as
24 you
know, this issue's been brewing for about a
25 year-and-a-half,
and I'd like to thank the DEP
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1 staff for working so hard to having a product
2 now
to -- to go ahead with.
3 I'd
like to make one amendment, however,
4 and
-- before it goes forward after public
5 hearing
--
6 MR.
STRUHS: Certainly.
7 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: -- and that's, I'd
8 like
the staff to incorporate a process to the
9 rule
by which applications for
10 telecommunications
lines proposed within the
11 special
consideration areas will, before
12 approval
by DEP, be noticed to the Trustees in
13 the
form of transmittal memorandum so that if a
14 Trustee
has any concerns regarding an
15 application,
the Trustee can request the
16 application
be placed on the agenda for
17 consideration.
18 MR.
STRUHS: We -- we would be pleased to
19 do
that, and can make that commitment here and
20 now
on the record, and obviously adopt that as
21 part
of the proposed rule.
22 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Okay. Then I'd move
23 it.
24 GOVERNOR
BUSH: All right.
25 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: With the amendment,
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1 it's moved.
2 And
seconded I guess.
3 GOVERNOR
BUSH: You need to second it?
4 This
is to amend the --
5 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Well, I -- the motion
6 is
to go ahead with it with this as a -- as
7 part
of it.
8 I
don't --
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: There's a motion to amend
10 the
proposed rule I guess.
11 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: And to include that
12 language
--
13 GOVERNOR
BUSH: And include the language
14 that
--
15 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Right.
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- that
17 Commissioner
Gallagher --
18 All
in favor, say aye.
19 THE
CABINET: Aye.
20 GOVERNOR
BUSH: All opposed?
21 Okay.
22 MR.
STRUHS: Does that include then
23 approval
to proceed --
24 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Well, I think --
25 MR.
STRUHS: -- with the --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that just is to amend
2 it.
Now we're --
3 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Well, it was to
4 approve
it with that included, yes.
5 MR.
STRUHS: Okay.
6 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: It was a new vote.
7 MR.
STRUHS: Excellent.
8 GOVERNOR
BUSH: We have all these people
9 that
didn't -- that wanted to come speak.
10 I
guess they're -- they don't need to. It's
11 done.
12 MR.
STRUHS: Well, and -- and -- and that
13 was
my oversight. I'm -- I'm -- I'm sorry.
14 We
-- we do have a distinguished guest
15 here,
Dr. McAllister from Florida Atlantic
16 University.
17 And
it -- it -- and that is -- that's the
18 reason
we have that remarkable resource, that
19 map
in front of you, is because of his efforts
20 and
others in his field.
21 In
the past, those natural resources were
22 essentially
invisible to the public, and
23 invisible
to you.
24 Mr.
McAllist-- Dr. McAllister gets a lot of
25 the
credit for raising the question, why are we
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1 routinely allowing connections and cables and
2 crossings
to go through the coral reef when
3 there
--
4 GOVERNOR
BUSH: -- the beach renourishment
5 projects.
6 MR.
STRUHS: Beach renourishment projects,
7 when
there are, in fact, existing natural
8 occurring
gaps in the reef.
9 Why
not use those.
10 And
through his local knowledge and
11 expertise,
he said, I will show you where they
12 are,
and -- and did so by actually putting some
13 of
our people in the water, including
14 Colleen
Castille.
15 GOVERNOR
BUSH: I missed that.
16 MR.
STRUHS: Who -- who went --
17 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: That's where she is
18 when
-- when she's not in the office, she's
19 down
--
20 MR.
STRUHS: -- who went on one of the
21 diving
expeditions, along with Jayne Bergstrom
22 from
our staff, who is here as well.
23 At
the same time that they were doing that
24 work,
and -- and the -- the good doctor was
25 showing
us our future, new technology became
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1 available to us originally through a company
2 out
of Australia, although there's some
3 home-grown
companies that are now going to be
4 able
to provide it, we hope, cheaper in the
5 future,
where they can do these overflights at
6 very
low speed with water penetrating lasers.
7 And
through the laser technology, actually
8 map
and produce images like that that very
9 clearly
show where these gaps are.
10 Once
it become -- became that apparent, it
11 just
made common sense to take advantage of
12 those
natural openings and opportunities.
13 And
again, just -- just for the record, we
14 would
not propose that we do anything to take
15 away
applicants' current and existing rights to
16 propose
any alignment that they would choose.
17 We
would simply suggest that we could
18 delegate
to the Department a faster, cheaper,
19 accelerated
process if the use is occurring at
20 naturally
occurring gaps.
21 And
we do have -- if we -- if we can just
22 put
this one on the camera, it's probably worth
23 it.
24 And
then I'd like to invite Dr. McAllister
25 to
just say a few words, because he really is
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1 deserving of a lot of credit for this.
2 GOVERNOR
BUSH: It's hard to see.
3 Dr.
McAllister.
4 DR.
McALLISTER: Thank you for having me
5 here.
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Good to be -- good to be
7 with
you.
8 DR.
McALLISTER: Say again?
9 GOVERNOR
BUSH: It's good that -- good that
10 you're
here.
11 DR.
McALLISTER: Thank you.
12 I've
been here for 40 years diving this
13 area.
And when I heard the cables laying
14 across
the live reef, cables with the armor
15 were
roughly 4 inches, 3 -- three-and-a-half,
16 4
inches in diameter, and I saw some of the
17 damage
they were doing, I knew from a book that
18 I
publish, a diving book, that there were some
19 gaps
out there.
20 And
I said, let's find them.
21 So
they said, okay, fine, go ahead and find
22 them.
23 I
towed along behind a boat about 300 feet
24 back,
and about 40 feet down with SCUBA, and
25 found
I think a total of 30 some-odd gaps.
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1 But the picture here shows you what we have
2 about
--
3 I
think my voice is loud enough for you.
4 I
don't like these modern gadgets.
5 About
something in the neighborhood of
6 7,000
years ago, sea level was well down
7 because
of the ice on land. As it started to
8 rise
about 7,000 years ago, there was a
9 still
stand.
10 It
was long enough for the reef -- for a
11 reef
to form on what would have been about
12 40
feet of water because Elkhorn coral, which
13 is
what we find the stumps of on the reef, sit
14 with
the tips out of the water at dead low
15 tide.
16 And
so this reef -- okay.
17 This
reef along here is our third reef, and
18 there
were gaps. Because if this was a barrier
19 reef
7,000 years ago, you had a lagoon behind
20 it;
and twice a day, you had to get the water
21 in
to the lagoon and out.
22 And
I'm not exactly sure how these passes
23 occurred,
but I've see them in a number of
24 reefs
around the world.
25 But
these were passes through the
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1 barrier reef.
2 And
as sea level then later on started to
3 rise
again very rapidly, it came up to our
4 present
-- maybe even higher than present, at
5 Cutler
Ridge and Conference Ridge, but came up
6 again.
7 And
this became a ground barrier reef. But
8 there
was nothing -- because the coral couldn't
9 keep
up with it, there was nothing to fill this
10 gap
in, no coral to grow in there.
11 And
there are perfectly good -- most --
12 most
of them are perfectly good sand-filled
13 gaps
through which we can lay fiber optic
14 cables,
pipelines, whatever you want to lay,
15 without
disturbing reefs -- reef out here
16 that's
also under fairly heavy stretch because
17 of
-- of light requirements for scleractinia
18 coral,
and also because of the turbidity that
19 we're
producing with a variety of things that
20 humans
do down here.
21 So
the reef is under heavy stress, and I
22 don't
want to see it any further stressed. And
23 that's
why I'm asking you know -- you folks to
24 approve
laying telecommunication cables through
25 the
gaps in the reef.
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1 And I can -- there are -- there are a
2 number
of arguments they've thrown up against
3 it.
But if you have any, why, I can give you
4 pretty
good answers to most of them.
5 I've
laid cable and I've spliced cable, and
6 I've
examined pipelines, only -- inspector of
7 them.
8 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you, sir.
9 Any
questions to the good doctor?
10 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: Yeah.
11 I'm
curious, you just did this on your own
12 volition?
13 DR.
McALLISTER: I'm sorry.
14 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: You -- you did this on
15 your
own volition?
16 DR.
McALLISTER: Well, the idea originally
17 was
to do it on my own volition, with -- I had
18 all
kinds of volunteers.
19 But
after we went out the first day with
20 the
first volunteer boat -- I probably
21 shouldn't
say this -- but the DEP people that
22 went
with us said, this is the boat we ought to
23 use.
Somehow we're going to get some money for
24 this
boat, because it had everything on it that
25 you
needed.
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1 If you read the report --
2 MR.
STRUHS: Okay. That'll be enough, sir.
3 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: A little too much
4 data.
5 DR.
McALLISTER: -- the boat and get some
6 $2,000
to use for petty cash, and I turned it
7 back.
8 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: Okay.
9 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Audit time.
10 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: General, you throw out
11 a
question, you never know what you'll get.
12 DR.
McALLISTER: Believe me, there are a
13 lot
of other people that believe that will --
14 that
about the reef, like I do, and would do
15 this
for nothing.
16 So
--
17 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: Well -- well, the
18 point
I wanted to make was I -- I presume this
19 doesn't
impede, Mr. Secretary, being able to
20 lay
the -- the cable?
21 DR.
McALLISTER: There's no problem putting
22 a
cable through the gaps. Absolutely none.
23 I've
laid enough cable, both power and
24 communications
cables in Bermuda and in
25 Florida,
that there's no problem.
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1 It may cost a little bit -- you may need
2 thrusters
on your -- your cable ship, or you
3 may
need a tug, but there's no problem.
4 MR.
STRUHS: But one of the things we
5 discovered,
thanks to Dr. McAllister, was
6 examples
where we would actually see existing
7 cables
laying, what, 15 feet --
8 MR.
BALLARD: Fifty feet.
9 MR.
STRUHS: -- fifty feet -- fifty feet
10 from
an existing sand gap, and you -- the cable
11 was
laid across the -- the coral.
12 And
if they had moved -- if they had
13 moved
-- if they had moved 50 feet, they could
14 have
put it in that same gap, and it would have
15 been
no material increase in cost for the
16 company,
and -- and a huge increase in terms of
17 protection
for the environment.
18 COMMISSIONER
CRIST: It's pretty neat
19 stuff.
20 Thank
you, Doctor. We appreciate your
21 help.
22 DR.
McALLISTER: You're welcome.
23 Thank
you.
24 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you.
25 You
don't have to pay back that petty cash
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1 either.
2 MR.
STRUHS: That concludes our agenda.
3 COMMISSIONER
BRONSON: You said it,
4 Brother.
5 (The
Board of Trustees of the Internal
6 Improvement
Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
7 *
* *
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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STATE
BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 163
December 11, 2002
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of
2 Administration.
3 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Motion on the
4 minutes.
5 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without
objection, the item passes.
8 Item
2.
9 MS.
BALDWIN: I'm Lee Baldwin from the
10 Florida
State Board of Administration.
11 Item
Number 2 is approval of a fiscal
12 determination
of an amount not exceeding
13 eight
million three hundred and fifty thousand
14 dollars
tax exempt Florida Housing Finance
15 Corporation
housing revenue bonds,
16 Pinnacle
Grove Apartments.
17 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Move Item 2.
18 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Second.
19 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without
objection, the item passes.
21 Item
3.
22 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: On Item 3,
23 Governor
--
24 MS.
BALDWIN: Item Number 3 is the Chief of
25 Internal
Audit Selection.
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STATE
BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 164
December 11, 2002
1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: On Item 3, Governor,
2 the
-- the person that we agreed to and offered
3 the
position to --
4 (Commissioner
Crist and Attorney General
5 Doran
exited the room.)
6 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: -- has found himself
7 another
engagement, and is unable to come join
8 us.
9 And
I would --
10 (Commissioner
Bronson exited the room.)
11 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: -- like to recommend
12 that
we hire Flerida Rivera-Alsing, who was a
13 very
qualified candidate for the sum of
14 $95,000,
and offer her the position.
15 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: I'll second that.
16 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Moved and seconded.
17 Without
objection, the item passes.
18 MS.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
19 GOVERNOR
BUSH: Thank you very much.
20 COMPTROLLER
MILLIGAN: Thank you.
21 TREASURER
GALLAGHER: Congratulations,
22 Flerida.
23
24
25
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STATE
BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 165
December 11, 2002
1 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
2 was
concluded.)
3 *
* *
4 (The
Cabinet meeting was concluded at
5 12:18
p.m.)
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
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25
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166
December 11, 2002
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE
OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY
OF LEON:
7 I,
LAURIE L. GILBERT COX, do hereby certify
8 that
the foregoing proceedings were taken before me
9 at
the time and place therein designated; that my
10 shorthand
notes were thereafter translated; and the
11 foregoing
pages numbered 1 through 165 are a true and
12 correct
record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I
FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee,
attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor
relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or
financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED
THIS 18TH day of DECEMBER, 2002.
18
19
20
21
22
LAURIE L. GILBERT COX, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
23 6753 Thomasville Road
Tallahassee, Florida 32312
24 1.888.224.3484
25
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