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T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
_____________________________________________________
Representing:
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND CONSUMER SERVICES
BOARD OF TRUSTEES
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush presiding,
in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The Capitol,
Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday, May 13, 2003
commencing at approximately 9:30 a.m.
Reported by:
SANDRA L. NARGIZ
Registered Professional Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FL 32301 (850)878-2221
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
CHARLES H. BRONSON
Commissioner of Agriculture
CHARLIE CRIST
Attorney General
TOM GALLAGHER
Chief Financial Officer
* * *
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I N D E X
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
(Presented by Coleman Stipanvich)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 7
2 Approved 10/17
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
(Presented by Ben J. Watkins, III)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 18
2 Approved 18
3 Approved 18
4 Approved 19
FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION
(Presented by Kevin McCarty)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 21
2 Approved 21
3 Approved 22
4 Approved 22
5 Approved 22
6 Approved 22
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND CONSUMER SERVICES
(Presented by Sherman Wilhelm)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 28
2 Approved 28
3 Approved 28/30
4 Approved 30
5 Approved 31
4
BOARD OF TRUSTEES
(Presented by David Struhs)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 35
2 Approved 36
3 Withdrawn 36
4 Approved 37
5 Approved 37
6 Approved 38
7 Approved 39/41
8 Deferred 42
9 Approved 42
10 Approved 52
11 Approved 52
12 Approved 60
13 Approved 61
14 Approved 67
15 Approved 68
16 Approved 102
17 Approved 102
18 Approved staff 141
recommendation
19 Approved 197
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 198
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:30 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Next Cabinet is Wednesday,
4 May 22nd, I guess that's because we will have --
5 28th, excuse me -- because we are reaching -- on
6 our budget the day before. The budget will be
7 passed on that day before, it's probably why we
8 are not doing it on Tuesday, right? I am sticking
9 with that, at least.
10 CFO GALLAGHER: Governor, if I may. We have
11 a vacancy on the Parole Commission, and I would
12 like to move that we appoint Monica David as chair
13 and Fred Dumphrey as vice-chair.
14 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are we going to have two
16 motions?
17 CFO GALLAGHER: No, that's one.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a
19 second. Without objection, the motion passes.
20 CFO GALLAGHER: Just for information, the new
21 chairman, Monica David, has recruited three past
22 chairmen to fill in for the vacancies until we
23 have a replacement so the work of the commission
24 will continue.
25 I also would like to move at this time
6
1 that we approve the Parole and Qualifications
2 Committee to help us find a new member, and
3 that would be chaired by Mr. Ed Spooner, the
4 chief deputy at the Gadsden County Sheriff's
5 Office. On that would be Don Hunter, Collier
6 County, Jerry Blair, State Attorney, Third
7 Judicial Circuit, Rosario Arigo, City of Coral
8 Springs and Meryl Allawas, 18th Judicial
9 Circuit Court Judge in Brevard County.
10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a
12 second for the Parole Qualifications Committee.
13 Without objection, the item passes.
14 Thank you very much, Commissioner.
15 State Board of Administration.
16 How did we get Coleman to get on the front
17 of the line? He must have done some serious
18 lobbying.
19 MR. STAPANOVICH: No, sir, I am happy to be
20 here.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion on item 1?
22 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 1.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
24 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: The minutes have been moved
7
1 and seconded. Without objection, the item passes.
2 MR. STAPANOVICH: Good morning, Governor,
3 Treasurer, General.
4 Item 2 has to do with Tom Wallace,
5 Executive Director of Florida Prepaid College
6 Program, requests approval of the Comprehensive
7 Investment Plan that was approved April 2, 2003
8 by the Florida Prepaid College Board consisting
9 of proposed changes for two separate programs.
10 The first program is the Florida Prepaid
11 College Program, and I believe the last time
12 that was amended was in 1993. And the new
13 program in Florida, the College Savings
14 Program, which was approved in June of '02.
15 Essentially there are three changes,
16 Governor and Members. The first one is to
17 allow the use of Exchange Trade Of Funds, ETFs,
18 by the board's investment managers; secondly to
19 include the definition of tobacco security as
20 defined by the Standard & Poors Global Industry
21 classification; and finally, to include the
22 board's previously-approved policy on conflicts
23 of interest.
24 Now I will answer any questions you may
25 have, or Mr. Wallace, Executive Director.
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1 CFO GALLAGHER: Governor, I would like to
2 move that we remove tobacco as a prohibited
3 investment vehicle from both the Florida Prepaid
4 College Program and the Florida College Savings
5 Program.
6 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there any discussion?
8 This is different than what your proposed policy
9 is, correct?
10 MR. STAPANOVICH: This is -- in the policies
11 as it stands for the program, it exists
12 ex-tobacco. And they have asked to place in a
13 definition defining to the investment manager what
14 ex-tobacco is. I will say it is different than
15 what the Florida State Board of Administration
16 does.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think we should have our
18 policies mirror the State Board.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: I agree. At the meeting they
20 had a motion and a second and a lot of discussion
21 with no vote. So --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: They forgot to vote?
23 CFO GALLAGHER: -- it stayed the way it was.
24 So I guess mainly they just didn't want to let all
25 that contention happen, so I guess --
9
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: They wanted us to take the
2 heat.
3 CFO GALLAGHER: And here we are.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think the theory here is
5 that the principle is a sound one, which is that
6 by in large, we want to -- our responsibility is
7 to get the maximum return in the safest investment
8 portfolio and not be involved in social or
9 political statements or positions.
10 MR. STAPANOVICH: That's the view of the
11 board and the staff as well, Governor, that any
12 time you limit the opportunity to set for
13 investments, it's not the prudent thing to do.
14 And we have shared that opinion with Mr. Wallace,
15 but his board, from what I understand, didn't want
16 to make the recommendation, but ultimately by law
17 you are the final authority.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: Let me just clarify what we
20 are doing by this motion is to strike number 1
21 from page 5 on both of the plans?
22 MR. STAPANOVICH: Yes, sir, Treasurer, and
23 also there is some attachments. Part four,
24 anywhere -- again, I am going to continue to bring
25 you a motion, but if you look at part 4, large cap
10
1 core investment guidelines, it also talks about
2 ex-tobacco. So anywhere that is I would assume
3 you want that out of the policy.
4 CFO GALLAGHER: Correct.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion? There
6 is a motion and second. Without objection, the
7 item passes, or the amendment, Commissioner
8 Gallagher's amendment passes.
9 Can I ask a question about the Prepaid
10 Fund, the College Board? This is a hugely
11 important investment for thousands and
12 thousands of Florida families.
13 As I understand, last time I looked at
14 this, the portfolio is basically -- is
15 dominated by treasuries, isn't it?
16 CFO GALLAGHER: Very conservative.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: And given the interest rate
18 climate, I assume that the actuarial surplus of
19 the prepaid is changing as there is a roll over of
20 the securities.
21 What's the most recent status of their
22 surplus?
23 MR. WALLACE: Governor, I am Tom Wallace.
24 The actuarial reserve right now, as of June 30,
25 2002, was $379 million. Our actuaries and our
11
1 accountants will come in on June 30 of this year
2 and do another shot at it and come back and do a
3 report. But we know, as you just indicated, with
4 the lower interest rate environment, for every
5 1 percent that interest rates go down, we lose
6 about a hundred million dollars of actuarial
7 reserve.
8 CFO GALLAGHER: What was your yield last year
9 on your portfolio?
10 MR. WALLACE: Since inception, the yield has
11 actually been over 10 percent, about 10.6 percent.
12 We started in 1988 and we bought when the yields
13 were significantly higher. For a given one year,
14 last year, we actually earned 7.8 percent.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excellent. What's your
16 projection for next year and the year after? I am
17 curious to know, last time I checked, I believe
18 that someone told me tuition rates could grow by
19 8 percent per anum and everything would be fine in
20 terms of the state's commitment.
21 But I assume that as your returns drop
22 going forward, the tuition increases projected
23 out over a decade of time or 15 years, or
24 whatever, have to drop as well in terms of the
25 increases.
12
1 MR. WALLACE: Yeah, the way the portfolio is
2 set up, it's called the immunized strategy, so
3 when we buy a contract in a given year, when we
4 sell a contract through 2002, our liabilities are
5 matched up with our assets; so as tuition rates
6 increase or decrease and as investment return
7 changes, those things work in tandem. So we have
8 some protection on the investment yield side.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: How can they work in tandem
10 if the legislature decides to increase tuition by
11 25 percent? That's not working in tandem.
12 MR. WALLACE: No, that goes up. What happens
13 is if investment yields go up or down, our
14 liabilities and assets will go up and down. That
15 is assuming a set tuition rate. That's what I was
16 getting to, this potential increase in tuition in
17 the future. We assume 6.8 percent tuition
18 increases in those assumptions. If tuition does
19 go up --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: For how long?
21 MR. WALLACE: Over the next 22 years because
22 a person could buy a contract for a newborn who
23 will actually use that four years out after age
24 18, so age 22 from now.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: You will base it on your
13
1 current interest rate going forward, what you're
2 purchasing your current assets on. But that means
3 that the state's obligation possibly would grow?
4 MR. WALLACE: Yes, sir, that's correct, based
5 on the spot yield curve. Right now, as I say,
6 95 percent of our investments are in fixed income.
7 What we can earn on new investments that we buy in
8 the future for contracts we would sell after this
9 point in time averages about 4.6 percent. Because
10 the duration of our portfolio is somewhere around
11 an eight to nine year range when people use, so
12 based on a weighted average of our return for
13 fixed income, it's 4.8 percent.
14 So any tuition increase above that
15 certainly would eat into that actuarial
16 reserve, or we could increase prices in the
17 contracts. Those are the two levers that the
18 board has, yes, sir.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: We've got really a mixed
20 blessing here. We have the most successful
21 prepaid tuition program in the country, which
22 means that actually we have more contracts than
23 all the other states combined, which is really
24 exciting. That's the good news.
25 The bad news is that pretty much puts an
14
1 obligation on the state to cover and not have
2 huge tuition increases because otherwise we are
3 going to have to make all the those seven
4 hundred and some thousand people pay more money
5 than what they thought they were originally
6 paying. Some of the months payments could go
7 up sizably.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: It wouldn't be for the people
9 already buying contracts, going forward?
10 CFO GALLAGHER: Yes, it would.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that true?
12 CFO GALLAGHER: The existing ones will have
13 to be increased.
14 MR. WALLACE: Well, the way the current law
15 is written, the way the current statute is is that
16 the state guarantees to cover the cost of tuition
17 for anyone that purchases a contract that is
18 within five years of going to college or is in
19 college.
20 GENERAL CRIST: Five years of going to
21 college?
22 CFO GALLAGHER: If you have four-year-olds
23 like I do, we are going to have to pay more money.
24 MR. WALLACE: Or else the state has
25 guaranteed we'll give you back what you paid in
15
1 plus full interest.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you prepaid?
3 CFO GALLAGHER: Absolutely.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Get Charlie moving quicker,
5 man.
6 CFO GALLAGHER: We've got more than five
7 years before he's in college.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Nine years old.
9 CFO GALLAGHER: I hope. I am enjoying every
10 bit of his youth, I don't want him in college yet.
11 GENERAL CRIST: I am just curious, how much
12 money do we have in this program now?
13 MR. WALLACE: $3.5 billion.
14 GENERAL CRIST: Say again.
15 MR. WALLACE: $3.5 billion.
16 GENERAL CRIST: Million?
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Billion.
18 MR. WALLACE: Billion. And we have sold over
19 890,000 contracts. This last year we sold 156,000
20 contracts.
21 GENERAL CRIST: It's a tremendous program,
22 and anything we can do to help, we need to do.
23 Thank you.
24 MR. WALLACE: Appreciate that.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for the update.
16
1 CFO GALLAGHER: Let me ask a question, Tom.
2 I think some states -- we have a guarantee for the
3 five years prior to, but don't some states
4 guarantee it right on from day one?
5 MR. WALLACE: Yes, they do.
6 CFO GALLAGHER: So we are much more I guess
7 open to having increases than other states do for
8 the majority of our people that have joined up?
9 MR. WALLACE: What the tuition increase would
10 do would potentially make the program financially
11 feasible. The only time -- the statute is clear,
12 it's guaranteed, but if the program is determined
13 financially infeasible, the legislature may deem
14 it that way and they are only obligated to fund
15 contracts that are within five years of going to
16 college.
17 CFO GALLAGHER: At that point, what,
18 everybody else gets their money back?
19 MR. WALLACE: They get their money back plus
20 simple interest.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: This program is powerful
22 because of the state's guaranty compared to other
23 states which have not -- and most of the 529
24 plans, apparently the states, a lot of them are
25 pulling back now because of the concerns about
17
1 rising tuition rates.
2 CFO GALLAGHER: Most of the 529 plans are
3 designed by private entities as opposed to having
4 our board, which we are in a lot better shape that
5 way, too, a lot more cheaper.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: We need a motion on the item.
7 CFO GALLAGHER: I think we did.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't think --
9 MR. STAPANOVICH: You have a motion and a
10 second on the amendment only; on the amendment
11 only. You would need to approve each program.
12 CFO GALLAGHER: Move it as amended.
13 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 2 has been moved and
15 seconded, item 2 as amended is approved. Thank
16 you, Coleman. Thank you all.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Division of Bond Finance.
2 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
3 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
5 objection, item 1 passes.
6 Item 2.
7 MR. WATKINS: Item 2 is a resolution
8 authorizing the issuance of up to $16,800,000 of
9 Parking Facility Revenue Bonds for FSU.
10 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion.
11 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
13 objection, the item passes.
14 MR. WATKINS: Item number 3 is a report of
15 award on the competitive sale of $5,585,000 in
16 Revenue Refunding Bonds for the parking system for
17 FSU.
18 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
19 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
21 objection, the item passes.
22 MR. WATKINS: Item number 4 is a report of
23 award on competitive sale of $109,770,000 in
24 Revenue Refunding Bond for the Florida Facilities
25 Pool.
19
1 The bonds were awarded to the low bidder
2 at a true interest cost of approximately
3 3.48 percent, generating gross savings, debt
4 service savings for the state of approximately
5 17 million or 13 and a half million on a
6 present value basis.
7 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
8 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
9 CFO GALLAGHER: Congratulations.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
11 objection, the item passes.
12 MR. WATKINS: Just to keep you up to date on
13 sort of a running score cards on refunding in this
14 calendar year, that's the ninth transaction,
15 aggregating $1.3 billion, saving the state on a
16 gross debt service basis $150 million.
17 CFO GALLAGHER: Awesome.
18 MR. WATKINS: Or a hundred and eleven million
19 on --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you calculating these
21 savings into the cap?
22 MR. WATKINS: Absolutely.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good. Just checking.
24 CFO GALLAGHER: Drops a little bit each time?
25 MR. WATKINS: Every little bit helps.
20
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure does.
2 CFO GALLAGHER: There is a lot of pressure
3 moving it up.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: We need some downward
5 pressure, with increased revenue and lower
6 interest rates counteracting the desire to put
7 that on everything that didn't walk in. Are we
8 finished?
9 MR. WATKINS: Yes.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Financial Services
2 Commission.
3 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on item 1, minutes of
4 February 25th.
5 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
7 objection, the item passes.
8 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on item 2, which is
9 the minutes for March 25th.
10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
12 objection, item passes. Kevin, good morning.
13 MR. McCARTY: Good morning, Governor, Members
14 of the Financial Services Commission.
15 I direct your attention to item number 3
16 on the agenda, was the adoption for changes to
17 Chapter 4-149, concerning the Small Employer
18 Health Care Access.
19 These amendments provide the following
20 changes. They provide for rating standards to
21 be used in the small group market; relocate
22 existing definitions to a definition section of
23 the rule; update the use of a form to be used
24 in required filings with the department; and
25 allow for the exclusion of claims under workers
22
1 compensation and permits a rating factor to be
2 used for those policy forms that provide
3 workers' comp coverage.
4 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
5 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
7 objection, the item passes.
8 MR. McCARTY: Items 4 and 5, and 6 have to do
9 with the office's adoption of the use of
10 electronic filing for rates and forms to be used.
11 Item 4 is specific to life and health.
12 Adoption of this would provide for all rates
13 and forms to be filed by use of an electronic
14 database effective July 1.
15 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: And 5 and 6?
17 CFO GALLAGHER: And 5 and 6.
18 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
20 objection, the item passes, items 4, 5 and 6.
21 Kevin, can you just give us a brief update
22 on insurance issues in the legislature? Five
23 hours or less.
24 MR. McCARTY: There are several substantive
25 issues I think that are important to the State of
23
1 Florida that have not been addressed and will need
2 to be.
3 Certainly the workers' comp legislation,
4 which the House and Senate had various versions
5 that it failed to pass in the waning hours of
6 the session. We certainly are encouraged and
7 hope there will be a special session addressing
8 those issues.
9 Likewise, with med mal, the Governor
10 appointed a Commission for med mal and workers'
11 comp, which I think gave a menu of some very
12 good suggestions on changes in both those
13 systems, which I think both systems, med mal
14 and workers' comp, need a fundamental, you
15 know, overhaul of the system in order for us to
16 have the viable economy in Florida and to
17 ensure availability of quality health care.
18 I also believe that there is some pending
19 legislation with regard to the PIP crisis in
20 Florida and the legislature addressed that a
21 couple of years ago; we still have some other
22 additional, I think, things that could be done.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you happy with the bill
24 that passed, I guess the Senate, on PIP?
25 MR. McCARTY: Yeah, I think that represents,
24
1 I think, some good measures in there. I think
2 there are other things that can be done to make it
3 stronger. But I think it certainly would be
4 something that would be significant and adjust the
5 PIP problem in Florida.
6 CFO GALLAGHER: Again, if we don't get that
7 passed, we really need to look at whether we ought
8 to keep the no-fault system, because the amount of
9 fraud that's happening today is costing each
10 family about $242 a year just in fraud, which is a
11 huge amount of money.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: What percentage of the
13 insurance market is PIP?
14 CFO GALLAGHER: Boy, I don't know.
15 MR. McCARTY: What percentage?
16 CFO GALLAGHER: Of the automobile?
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Of the automobile, yeah. Is
18 it a quarter?
19 MR. McCARTY: That's probably correct. Most
20 policyholders in Florida buy more than the
21 mandatory PIP coverage. It probably represents
22 about 20 or 25 percent of the coverage.
23 CFO GALLAGHER: But there is a large sector
24 of people that only buy the minimum, which would
25 be PIP and PD, property damage and personal injury
25
1 projection. Of that, PIP ends up being a pretty
2 large percentage of that, because that's where all
3 the fraud is. So there is a lot of claims there
4 that are fraudulent. So the cost of -- the
5 indication on rate increases on that for the past
6 few years has been very high.
7 MR. McCARTY: Clearly fraud is a significant
8 part of driving costs of all kinds of insurance in
9 Florida, but I think it would be remiss of me not
10 to mention that we need to get a grip on the
11 runaway legal costs in our system which are
12 evidenced in PIP and workers' comp as well as
13 med-mal.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: You want me to start giving
15 you guttural sounds? Go for it. It's out of
16 control. We will act on these things, because a
17 lot of Floridians are going to lose their jobs if
18 we don't. It is the biggest burden for
19 maintaining our lead in the country in terms of
20 job creation.
21 CFO GALLAGHER: Kevin, you did have a win in
22 the regular session; so you might want to mention
23 that.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Your win.
25 CFO GALLAGHER: The whole department's win.
26
1 MR. McCARTY: We compromised with --
2 Treasurer Gallagher initially had put forward for
3 a regulation on the out-of-state group market.
4 Our office put together I think an alternative
5 which provides for an unfair trade practice for
6 out-of-state groups to engage in predatory rating
7 practices.
8 But more importantly, I think in that bill
9 is provisions that eliminate some of the
10 subjective criteria that used to be there,
11 which would allow the Insurance Commissioner,
12 now the director, to disapprove filings based
13 upon a determination of viability.
14 And I also put the loss ratio provision in
15 there, which putting that kind of stability I
16 think in the uncertainty in legislation
17 provides for a business climate and an
18 environment that I think will encourage
19 companies to do business in Florida by
20 eliminating the subjectivity of the rate review
21 process.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did the legislature pass the
23 reorganization, the glitch?
24 MR. McCARTY: Yes, they did.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: They call it, I guess, CFO
27
1 Glitch Bill.
2 MR. McCARTY: Yes, we did.
3 CFO GALLAGHER: 2700 pages.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: You are kidding?
5 CFO GALLAGHER: No. They passed it pretty
6 clean, too. Usually they had loaded up a bunch of
7 stuff on it, but it was a passed clean.
8 MR. McCARTY: Thank you, Governor and Members
9 of the Commission.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of Agriculture and
2 Consumer Services.
3 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
5 objection, the item passes.
6 MR. WILHELM: Is seeking approval to issue a
7 one acre 10-year lease for live rock in Monroe
8 County with the standard conditions.
9 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
10 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
12 objection, the item passes.
13 MR. WILHELM: Item 3 is also another one acre
14 10-year lease for live rock in Monroe County with
15 standard conditions.
16 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
17 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
19 objection, the item passes.
20 How long does it take to turn rock into
21 live rock?
22 MR. XX: Usually it's between a year or two
23 years, depending on where it's located. The rock
24 that's coming off of Palm Beach County and
25 Hillsborough County will take almost two years.
29
1 The Keys rock will take a year.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Because of just the --
3 MR. XX: Warm water and more diversity and
4 what's floating in the water column.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's a really kind
6 fascinating part of our world.
7 We ought to brag about this a little bit.
8 I don't think you can do this in other places.
9 Is there other parts of the country that do
10 this to the same extent we do?
11 MR. XX: No, sir. We are blessed with warm
12 water and a coral reef that maintains organisms in
13 it, and they harvest the rock out of Miami-Dade
14 and out of the quarries and the farmers will get
15 and the retail shops will get up to $10 a pound
16 for this stuff.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's really cool.
18 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I think the key here
19 is by working with DEP and others, when the
20 legislation for aquaculture came over to the
21 agriculture department and the amount of potential
22 business that aquaculture is going to produce, I
23 predicted over 15 or 20 years ago that in my
24 lifetime aquaculture may outproduce land-based
25 agriculture with the potential we have, for all
30
1 the water resources we have around the State of
2 Florida; that we may be producing food and other
3 items at such a rate that it may actually
4 outproduce land-based agriculture in my lifetime.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Hope you live a long life,
6 Charlie. What item are we on?
7 MR. XX: Item number 4.
8 CFO GALLAGHER: I don't think we announced 3,
9 motion and second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion on 3. I thought we
11 did, but we can do it again if you would like. We
12 did item 2, right?
13 There is a motion on 3, is there a second?
14 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
16 objection, the item passes.
17 MR. XX: Item number 4 is another live rock
18 lease for one acre, 10 years, it's going to be in
19 Palm Beach County.
20 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
21 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
23 objection, the item passes.
24 MR. XX: Item number 5 is the request by the
25 Department to transfer 11 leases over in Dixie
31
1 County from an existing high-density lease and
2 move it south to another high-density lease where
3 it is more favorable for raising clams.
4 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 5.
5 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
7 objection, the item passes.
8 MR. XX: Thank you very much.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
32
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees.
2 MR. STRUHS: Good morning, Governor. If I
3 might, I would like to take just a minute and
4 address an item that is not on the agenda but
5 certainly I think is important to you as a board.
6 Some recent personnel changes in our
7 Division of Recreation and Parks have prompted
8 some rumors that we have plans to privatize or
9 commercialize the State Park System and I
10 wanted to publicly assure you that that is
11 simply not true.
12 I had the opportunity to speak with some
13 of you privately about this, so you are already
14 aware of it, but I thought it was important to
15 use this public venue to make that clear.
16 We at DEP greatly appreciate the constant
17 support that we get from each one of you as we
18 look to expand the parks and improve the park
19 system.
20 Just for the record, over the last four
21 years, the operating budget for the State Park
22 System has increased by almost 25 percent;
23 about $150 million invested in capital
24 improvement. And, in fact, this year Governor
25 Bush has recommended what is the largest
33
1 operating budget ever proposed for the State
2 Park System.
3 The point for sharing this is to assure
4 you that we are not now going to turn over this
5 public trust investment to some kind of
6 commercial operation. If anything, our
7 objective is to really bring other conservation
8 properties that we manage for you up to the
9 same level of service, accessibility and public
10 support that the parks currently enjoy.
11 That obviously means keeping them in
12 public ownership, under public management, for
13 public benefit and appreciate the chance to
14 just make sure that is clear to each one of you
15 as board members.
16 With that, unless there are any questions,
17 move on to agenda item number 1.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I ask a question? Kind
19 of a side bar to this. Anything going on with
20 Cypress Gardens?
21 MR. STRUHS: I am going to let Mr. Ballard
22 speak to that.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: I have been getting some
24 interesting e-mails about prospective uses and
25 ventures.
34
1 MR. BALLARD: We are in the middle of working
2 with Wild Adventures, they have shown some
3 interest. We have had two meetings with them
4 already and Cypress Gardens together and there
5 seems to be some interest there.
6 There is talk about a conservation
7 easement for a part of Cypress Gardens that the
8 state is looking at bringing before the
9 Governor and Cabinet to keep in perpetuity, but
10 we are only talking about a small segment of
11 Cypress Gardens.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: What about buying it? What
13 about the purchase? Are efforts under way? What
14 would be the cycle? When would a decision be made
15 if we were in a position to buy it?
16 MR. BALLARD: It would have to go before ARC.
17 If ARC approves a purchase by the state -- excuse
18 me, if ARC approves the resource, then it would
19 come before the Governor and Cabinet for your
20 approval in August. So we would see nothing
21 before August.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: David Segel's --
23 MR. BALLARD: We have not talked to David
24 Segal. We have got something fairly strong with
25 Wild Adventures, and we want to pursue that first.
35
1 We feel that's the best option right now.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Thank you for the
3 update. I am sorry.
4 Item 1.
5 MR. STRUHS: We recommend approval of the
6 item.
7 It's an opportunity to sell to Miami-Dade
8 County 11 parcels, totaling about 85 acres,
9 it's state-owned property. They will use this
10 to further enhance their water production
11 facilities and provide them well protection.
12 CFO GALLAGHER: Moved.
13 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
15 objection, the item passes.
16 MR. STRUHS: We also recommend approval of
17 item number 2.
18 This would allow us to transfer to the
19 South Florida Water Management District a
20 87-acre strip of land that runs along side the
21 Miami Canal. This land was not purchased with
22 any kind of conservation bond dollars, so there
23 is no problem there.
24 We do need three votes to convey the
25 property from the Board of Trustees to the
36
1 Water Management District. This is land that
2 they will need for part of the Everglades
3 Construction Project.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is to expand a storm
5 treatment area?
6 MR. STRUHS: No, it's actually to better
7 manage and maintain the canal. This is a thin
8 strip of land that actually runs right along the
9 levee. In order to maintain and clean and repair
10 the canal, they would have access to it.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. Is there a
12 motion?
13 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Motion on 2.
14 CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
16 objection, the item passes. We need to make sure.
17 All in favor say aye.
18 THE CABINET: Aye.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: The item passes unanimously.
20 MR. STRUHS: Item number 3.
21 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion to withdraw 3.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion to
23 withdraw. Is there a second?
24 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, the item
37
1 is withdrawn.
2 MR. STRUHS: Recommending approval of item
3 number 4. This would accept assignment of an
4 option agreement to acquire 197 acres in the
5 Yellow River Ravines, Florida Forever Project, to
6 designate the Department of Agriculture and
7 Consumer Services, Division of Forestry, as the
8 managing agency, and to confirm the policy
9 statement for their properties management.
10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Motion on item 4.
11 CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
13 objection, the item passes.
14 MR. STRUHS: Recommending approval on item
15 number 5, assignment of an option agreement to
16 acquire just under 60 acres in the Lake Wales
17 Ridge Ecosystem.
18 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 5.
19 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Hang on a second, David.
21 (Short pause.)
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a
23 second. Any discussion? Without objection, the
24 item passes.
25 MR. STRUHS: Item 6 is, in my opinion, a
38
1 remarkably good item and one that deserves some
2 attention.
3 This is the opportunity to acquire an
4 important conservation resource, 1,166 acres
5 within the Escribano Point, Florida Forever
6 Project, but it's more important than just that
7 because, in fact, this is further evidence of
8 our state's commitment to work collaboratively
9 with the Department of Defense to deal with
10 intrusion efforts, or to postpone encroachment,
11 I am sorry -- to deal with the encroachment
12 issues around our military bases.
13 As you know, with the Governor's
14 leadership, we have been engaged at the highest
15 levels with the Pentagon, with the base
16 commanders in Florida, to make sure that we can
17 try to marry up our conservation agenda with an
18 economic development agenda, with a national
19 security agenda, and this is very good evidence
20 of that. We urge you to recommend approval of
21 this.
22 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Move item 6.
23 CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
25 objection, the item passes. This is a great
39
1 purchase.
2 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
3 Item number 7 is an option agreement to
4 acquire 1500 acres within the Etoniah/Cross
5 Florida Greenway Project.
6 This parcel is particularly important to
7 us because it actually fills in a gap. We have
8 got public lands on this greenway and there is
9 currently a gap in public ownership. This
10 fills it in. And when you are in the business
11 of building linear facilities, this is very
12 important to us. We recommend approval.
13 GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
14 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
16 objection, the item passes.
17 David, explain to me when the Cross
18 Florida Greenway is complete, where do we go,
19 from where to where when it's complete?
20 MR. STRUHS: Where do we go after what?
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: From the beginning to the
22 end.
23 MR. STRUHS: The terminus?
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Call it what you would like;
25 from the start to finish; the Alpha to the Omega.
40
1 MR. STRUHS: From the St. Johns River all the
2 way to the Gulf of Mexico.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Where does it hit the Gulf of
4 Mexico?
5 MR. STRUHS: In Inglis. The Inglis Locks.
6 Jena Brooks, who is the director of Greenway
7 Trails, is here. We don't show her off very often
8 and she could give you a 30-second overview of
9 this.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
11 MS. BROOKS: Thank you, Secretary.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Show you off? There is
13 probably a little better, more professional way of
14 saying --
15 MS. BROOKS: Yes, I think so. But as the
16 Secretary was saying, it is from St. Johns River
17 in Putnum County through Marion County, Levy
18 County, part of Citrus County, all way to the Gulf
19 of Mexico and Inglis.
20 We have over a hundred miles of trails so
21 far built within those lands that we own, but a
22 lot of them are circuitous, so they are not
23 necessarily all connecting from east to west at
24 this time. We do have a few gaps in ownership
25 and we are hoping to acquire some of those
41
1 lands over the next couple of years.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Once you get to Palatka, is
3 it Palatka where it connects?
4 MS. BROOKS: Palatka and St. Johns River,
5 yes.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: And when you do you think
7 this will be complete?
8 MS. BROOKS: I am sure it will be many years
9 because, like I say, we do have some gaps in
10 ownership along the way there. And this year
11 funding is minimal for development. So it will
12 take some time. We made a lot of progress in the
13 last several years though.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
15 MS. BROOKS: Thank you.
16 MR. STRUHS: I am very proud of all our
17 management team.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: You should be, David. Is
19 there a motion?
20 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 7.
21 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
23 objection, the item passes.
24 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion to defer number 8.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion to defer
42
1 item 8. Is there a second?
2 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
4 objection, the item passes.
5 MR. STRUHS: Item 9 is an interesting item.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, it is.
7 MR. STRUHS: It's a purchase agreement with
8 the Nature Conservancy in the Bombing Range Ridge,
9 Florida Forever Project.
10 There are 3,645 acres, there are 2,351
11 already under option by the Nature Conservancy
12 now. This is an interesting arrangement where
13 we would look to enter into an agreement with
14 the Nature Conservancy to buy into what's
15 available now as well as further purchases of
16 the, as yet, unavailable parcels.
17 Mr. Fountain is here, Keith Fountain, from
18 the Nature Conservancy, to speak to the issue,
19 and I would be happy to answer any questions
20 you might have. We would recommend approval of
21 the item.
22 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 9.
23 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
25 objection, the item passes.
43
1 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mr. Fountain, for
3 your persuasive advocacy.
4 MR. STRUHS: I would recommend --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am not going to ask how
6 long it will take to purchase the remaining lots
7 because --
8 CFO GALLAGHER: Neither of us will be here
9 when that happens.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Only Charlie Bronson will be
11 here.
12 CFO GALLAGHER: Some of his family.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's put it this way. This
14 will be completed after aquaculture becomes the --
15 CFO GALLAGHER: Largest --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: By the way, it's another
17 issue of importance as it relates to our military
18 base support. This has strong support from the
19 folks that operate the Bombing Range.
20 MR. STRUHS: In fact, Governor one of the
21 things we might do when we have a shorter agenda
22 sometime in the future is give you an overview
23 strategically on how we are marrying up
24 conservation initiatives with security and
25 economic development projects; we could do a
44
1 statewide overview.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: That will be great, shorter
3 agenda.
4 MR. STRUHS: Items 10 and 11, I might
5 recommend for efficiency we might consider items
6 10 and 11 together. This is a case where Mr. and
7 Ms. Cummings illegally filled a 158-square-foot
8 area of sovereign submerged land and an additional
9 65 square foot area by the North River Plantation
10 Homeowners Association.
11 This would resolve that problem for both
12 the individuals as well as the association. It
13 includes three elements. It includes
14 purchasing the land from the state at three
15 times the appraised value, which is something
16 that is in the rules. It requires the payment
17 of a fine which, in fact, has already been
18 paid, a 2,500-dollar fine by both the
19 association and Mr. and Ms. Cummings; and as
20 well, to finally meet the final element of the
21 rules to provide a public benefit, and in this
22 they are purchasing for the state some
23 additional new survey equipment that's needed
24 by our Division of State Lands.
25 So if you take the package together, we
45
1 think this is a good resolution, and we
2 recommend passing items 10 and 11.
3 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, I have a
4 question on this. Now are we saying, and I think
5 I heard this yesterday, we are going to have to do
6 another survey when they just surveyed last year?
7 They have to pay for another survey on top of
8 everything else that they have been required to
9 do?
10 MR. STRUHS: There are some who would suggest
11 that should be the case. That's not what I am
12 recommending here. I would not recommend that.
13 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I think the survey
14 from one year ought to hold up. We have done
15 transactions with a one-year survey in the past,
16 and I can't -- they are paying a substantial fine
17 and everything else, if you will, for the
18 utilization of that property ahead of approval, so
19 I think we ought to do it without another survey.
20 MR. STRUHS: I agree with you, Commissioner.
21 Just for the record, we are actually talking about
22 appraisals, not surveys.
23 CFO GALLAGHER: I move 11, subject to any
24 modified fees determined by an acceptable updated
25 appraisal, and two, receipt of the transit located
46
1 marker.
2 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and second?
4 Commissioner Gallagher, your motion is the same as
5 the agenda item or have you modified it?
6 CFO GALLAGHER: 10 and 11 has that
7 modification that's being recommended by the
8 Trustees.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Approval with a waiver of the
10 updated appraisal, meaning you are waiving the
11 cost of the appraisal?
12 CFO GALLAGHER: No, they have to get the
13 appraisal but not the -- the appraisal remains as
14 was --
15 MR. STRUHS: Right, using utilizing the
16 existing appraisal.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's the waiver to not have
18 to do the appraisal.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: Right.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner -- General,
21 question?
22 GENERAL CRIST: I do. I want to make sure I
23 understand what happened here, Mr. Secretary.
24 Could you explain the facts?
25 MR. STRUHS: Yes. And I would also invite
47
1 Mr. Tim Rach of our staff -- we'll show Tim off --
2 to answer any of the detailed questions, but
3 General, essentially this was an instance in which
4 some homeowners filled in a parcel of land that
5 was formerly submerged sovereign land. It was
6 contiguous to their single family home. They did
7 that without a permit, and they did on that land
8 that clearly was not theirs.
9 There was also a smaller parcel adjacent
10 that was actually owned by the homeowners
11 association. This is a dock facility.
12 In order to resolve that problem, the
13 rules are pretty clear, the rules are that
14 there is a fine and in both cases they paid the
15 fine of $250,000. And now to actually make the
16 state whole they would buy the land from the
17 state; that price is set again by rule which is
18 three times the appraised value, and they have
19 agreed to do that.
20 And then the third element is there has to
21 be some public benefit, and the public benefit
22 in this case would be their contribution of
23 some new surveying equipment to the state for
24 our use.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: What kind of equipment are
48
1 they going to give the state?
2 MR. STRUHS: That is why we invited Mr. Rock
3 up here.
4 MR. RACH: Good morning. The surveying
5 equipment that we are talking about in terms of
6 meeting the public interest requirement is a wide
7 range of material that the Aquatic Preserve staff
8 will use in surveying or assessing maybe coral
9 reef areas, where they would set permanent markers
10 that they can use year after year to analyze the
11 areas, can be assessing wetland boundaries. So
12 it's surveying equipment that they can -- it can
13 be stakes, it can be tape, measuring equipment,
14 that will be used by the aquatic preserve staff on
15 the national areas.
16 CFO GALLAGHER: To locate a marker?
17 MR. RACH: Yes.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: General --
19 GENERAL CRIST: It's kind of interesting to
20 me. These individuals illegally expanded their
21 property, so to speak, and now we are going to
22 sort of consummate the deal. I am not sure I
23 understand.
24 CFO GALLAGHER: They said they got misled.
25 GENERAL CRIST: That's why I am asking what
49
1 the facts are.
2 CFO GALLAGHER: The homeowners association
3 told them they could do it, so they did it and
4 then they couldn't do it, so the people --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let me just go through how
6 this works, just to put it from the perspective
7 the Cummings, who I don't know; they may be the
8 most wonderful people in the world, they may be
9 the opposite.
10 But here's how this works. For 158 square
11 feet -- now we are not talking about a lot.
12 First of all, back to the appraisal questions,
13 I am not sure with 158 square feet, what you
14 can do anything with, has the same value as the
15 rest of the property that already has a home on
16 it on the waterfront. But put that aside for a
17 second. That's a debate for a shorter agenda
18 as well.
19 They paid $2,500 for an appraisal. That's
20 extraordinary, in my opinion, the cost; $855
21 for an application to DEP -- welcome to
22 government -- a 3,000-dollar penalty, which is
23 the rules that we, I guess, deal with. They
24 did a $385 survey, this is their prorated
25 expense; I assume the homeowners association
50
1 got wacked for the rest of it. They have an
2 updated appraisal of $1,800, which I suggest we
3 should waive, my own personal opinion; and then
4 we take the appraised value, which is
5 debateable whether 158 square feet attached to
6 a lot has that value, and multiply it times
7 three, so that's $9,480.
8 And then the public interest requirement
9 is the transit locater for $932. And they
10 built -- all they are trying to do I guess --
11 the motive here, I am not passing judgment;
12 maybe they had bad motives, maybe they were
13 told they could do this. A lot of people
14 actually don't know all the rules of
15 government.
16 I know that comes as a surprise to people
17 up here. So they are paying 17 -- under your
18 proposed suggestion, $17,152 to pay for
19 something they already filled, whether they did
20 it knowingly or not -- look, I am not passing
21 judgment on their motives.
22 We are mean-spirited -- for 158 square
23 feet. Then the homeowners association I guess
24 has another little -- they get a taste of
25 government, too.
51
1 CFO GALLAGHER: Because they got caught. I
2 hate to think how many of these things happen out
3 there that didn't get caught. If we knew that, of
4 course, they would be caught.
5 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I am just glad we are
6 not having to pay that price for state land at 158
7 square feet, what they are paying on this. They
8 made a mistake. They admitted they made a
9 mistake. They are willing to do these -- to
10 clarify it, to go ahead and pay the fines and do
11 all the things we are requiring them to do.
12 I just -- the only thing I had a hang up
13 on was making them go back and resurvey the
14 thing after it's only a year old. I doubt if
15 that 158 feet has changed much in the last
16 year.
17 CFO GALLAGHER: It will give them the extra
18 feet.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: The motion is to approve the
20 agreement.
21 CFO GALLAGHER: Without a new appraisal and
22 without a new survey.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: And we want receipt of the
24 transit locater. There is a motion and second.
25 Any other discussion?
52
1 Without objection, the item passes. Tell
2 the Cummings, if you see them, that we feel
3 their pain.
4 And on item 11, was your motion for 10 and
5 11?
6 CFO GALLAGHER: Yes.
7 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
8 Item number 12, the mayor of the city
9 Pahokee, Mr. Sasser, wanted to be here, but
10 unfortunately could not make it. He did send a
11 letter. If I could ask the letter be shared,
12 if it hasn't already been shared. You should
13 have with you a letter from Mr. Sasser.
14 This item again is sort of an interesting
15 one. There is a marina facility at the City of
16 Pahokee that preexisted any kind of state
17 leasing arrangement for these kinds of
18 sovereign submerged lands. It's a permit that
19 goes back to the 1950s.
20 The proposal here, because they are
21 looking to convert this from a public facility
22 to one that they would have a joint venture
23 with a private entity, they are now looking to
24 essentially modernize that arrangement and to
25 seek a standard 25-year sovereignty submerged
53
1 land lease for the 401,361 square feet for that
2 marina.
3 There are some other requests that are
4 attached to that. They would like to see that
5 the lease fees be based strictly on the
6 6 percent annual rental from the wet slips, and
7 they would also seek a request of waiver of the
8 annual fee that we charge for extended term
9 leases, 25-year term lease.
10 Our recommendation on this item following
11 the strict interpretation of the rule as they
12 currently exist is we would seek your approval
13 of the conversion of that old outdated
14 permitting system to a new modern lease system;
15 the 25-year extended lease, we would recommend,
16 again based on the rules, the denial of the
17 proposed modified fee structure, and to also
18 deny the waiver of the annual extended term
19 lease fee.
20 Of course, you as the Board of Trustees
21 can waive your own rules. But we are
22 recommending to you what, in fact, is in the
23 rules as they currently exist.
24 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, I have a
25 question on this.
54
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Commissioner.
2 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: The area in question
3 here, which is the Pahokee area, I believe and I
4 don't remember whether this is a front porch
5 Florida community or not.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's an area of critical --
7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: But it is a very -- an
8 area where they are really struggling right now,
9 so one part of Palm Beach County that is
10 struggling right now to do business of any type
11 that can help their community.
12 And I think we need to, within reason we
13 need to work with them on this so that they can
14 bring in either sports fishing and other
15 businesses to the area that will help their
16 community out.
17 But I would like to make a motion to give
18 a 10-year lease, with the lease fees strictly
19 on the 6 percent of the annual rental value
20 from the wet slips area and for five years,
21 lease fees will be brought back to the Board of
22 Trustees for reevaluation; if they are doing
23 better, if they are -- so it gives the board,
24 whoever is here in five years, it gives the
25 board a chance to review that, there's most
55
1 likely to be sunsetting on laws of the state.
2 CFO GALLAGHER: Can I ask a question? Our
3 normal deal is the 6 percent of the gross dockage,
4 is that what we normally do?
5 MR. STRUHS: It's complicated and I might ask
6 for help from Mr. Rock on this. But if it is a --
7 it is one of these formulas where you pay
8 whichever is greater of the two. It's either
9 based on 12 cents per square foot or a percentage,
10 whichever is greater. And in this case, they
11 would seek the benefit of the flat rate.
12 CFO GALLAGHER: Okay. I understand. I
13 thought it might have been both. And, therefore,
14 I was going to lean toward maybe raising the
15 percentage a little bit. But if it's one or the
16 other, which is higher, we are going to basically
17 take it for granted over some period of time the
18 6 percent will be higher.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Exactly.
20 CFO GALLAGHER: Otherwise, I am a little
21 concerned about precedent setting by doing this.
22 I think we need to say we are doing this because
23 of the area of critical economic concern is why we
24 are making this exception.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
56
1 CFO GALLAGHER: With that, I will second the
2 motion.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion to --
4 repeat the motion again, to approve the lease.
5 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: 10-year lease, with
6 the lease fee based on the 6 percent.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: And a review after five.
8 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: And a review after
9 five years by the board.
10 CFO GALLAGHER: We are waiving the ground
11 lease fee, minimum fee, because it is an area of
12 critical economic concern.
13 MR. STRUHS: That's perfectly --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion and second. Any
15 discussion? Would the lessee like to come and
16 speak? You don't have to. You are not required
17 to, if you don't want to.
18 MR. SPRAGUE: I just have one question.
19 Would it also -- the discount for being open for
20 the public on a first come, first serve, would
21 that still apply? That's my only question.
22 Normally what we do today on any public
23 marinas that are open, on public first
24 come/first served, there is a discount
25 regardless, whether it's square footage or
57
1 whether it's based on the 6 percent.
2 CFO GALLAGHER: What do you mean by discount?
3 MR. XX: We discount submerged land fees to
4 marinas that are open to the public on a first
5 come/first serve basis.
6 CFO GALLAGHER: There are no submerged land
7 fees, so how are you going to discount that?
8 MR. SPRAGUE: Well, we do it on the
9 6 percent, we do it either way, 6 percent of gross
10 or square footage. In 1821, that's how the rule
11 is presently applied. For clarification to us --
12 CFO GALLAGHER: What does the discount amount
13 to?
14 MR. SPRAGUE: It's one-third, sir.
15 CFO GALLAGHER: So now we are down to
16 4 percent.
17 MR. SPRAGUE: That's correct.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: If they have a threshold, if
19 they stay above the threshold of public use.
20 MR. SPRAGUE: 90 percent.
21 CFO GALLAGHER: That means 90 percent of
22 first come/first served?
23 MR. SPRAGUE: Yes. The only reason why it
24 was 90 is because we thought some marina owner may
25 want his own boat in a slip, and that was the
58
1 rationale. I sat on the TAC committee with --
2 CFO GALLAGHER: I think he would be the first
3 come, if he owns the marina.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: First come reserved, is what
5 he is trying to avoid.
6 CFO GALLAGHER: He would be the first guy
7 there for the boat slip.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is embedded in our
9 existing rules, so the answer to the question is
10 the motion is included.
11 MR. SPRAGUE: Thank you very much. We have
12 got a great uphill battle in the Glades. We are
13 trying to bring tourism into an agricultural area,
14 and we appreciate the state's assistance to the
15 city and both our group in trying to cause
16 economic development within the city. Thank you.
17 CFO GALLAGHER: One of the reasons that I
18 certainly go along with Commissioner Bronson on
19 this is unfortunately there are times over the
20 past years and in the future where you can't do
21 much boating because the lake is way down, and
22 they wouldn't be in too good of business there.
23 So this helps with that, too.
24 MR. STRUHS: Governor, I would ask that
25 before you cast your vote on this, that I might
59
1 offer another suggestion for your consideration.
2 If the desire of the board is to keep the
3 fees as low as possible, so this has a good
4 start, one thing that you might consider is a
5 five-year lease rather than a 10-year lease.
6 The way the rules are written, is if it's
7 anything more than a five-year lease, there is
8 a 10 percent surcharge. It's called the
9 extended -- there is a 25 percent surcharge.
10 CFO GALLAGHER: Who makes the rules?
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Must have been another
12 Cabinet.
13 MR. STRUHS: It was your predecessors, I am
14 sure.
15 But the point is seeing the direction you
16 want to go in, which is to moderate the fees,
17 you could make this a five-year lease rather
18 than a 10-year lease; and given Commissioner
19 Bronson's suggestion that they come back in
20 five years anyway to review the fee structure,
21 by doing that, you could probably further
22 reduce their burden.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: How about if it's a
24 five-years lease with an option to renew for five
25 years?
60
1 CFO GALLAGHER: But with Cabinet approval. I
2 make a substitute motion, five years.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: At least they know that they
4 have a longer term commitment, 10 years being
5 better than five. I assume there is going to be
6 investments in this, and the whole point of this
7 would be to --
8 MR. STRUHS: We can do that, sir, and that
9 would again give them the benefit of a 10-year
10 planning horizon.
11 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I will second the
12 substitute amendment.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a substitute
14 amendment to approve this for a five-year lease
15 with an option to renew, subject to Cabinet
16 approval, for an additional five years. And there
17 is a second. Any other discussion? The item
18 passes without objection, as amended, or as
19 substituted.
20 MR. STRUHS: Thank you very much.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good luck. We are showing
22 the letter from the Mayor of Pahokee, his
23 stationery is really interesting. On the bottom
24 it says, "Palm Beach County's Other Coast." I
25 love that.
61
1 CFO GALLAGHER: Coast to Coast, Palm Beach
2 County.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: The West Coast of Palm Beach
4 County. Item 13.
5 MR. STRUHS: We are recommending approval
6 this, subject to the special lease conditions and
7 the payment of $7,945.35.
8 This is a good opportunity for us because
9 it closes in a gap between two existing
10 commercial marinas. We have staff available to
11 answer any questions you might have.
12 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 13, staff's
13 recommendations.
14 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
16 objection, the item passes.
17 MR. STRUHS: Item 14, recommending approval
18 of this item, subject to special lease conditions
19 and the payment of $3,632.02.
20 I would point out that we do have Mr. Pat
21 Rose here from the City of Manatee who would
22 like to speak to it, Mr. Rick Cantrell from the
23 DEP district office is also available to answer
24 questions, and has I think has a couple of
25 visuals to share with you.
62
1 The Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission
2 has come on record as supporting this proposed
3 project, in a large measure because Lee County,
4 in fact, has demonstrated significant progress
5 in terms of advancing their manatee protection
6 plan.
7 We believe that there is an important
8 public benefit attached to this, specifically
9 improved seagrass protection through improved
10 enforcement, access, public education and
11 signage, and in doing it in the right places in
12 the right way.
13 So we would recommend approval of the
14 item. Mr. Pat Rose would like to speak to it
15 and Mr. Rick Cantrell has got some items.
16 Maybe Rick should go first.
17 GENERAL CRIST: Mr. Secretary, who did you
18 say came out strongly approving it?
19 MR. STRUHS: Florida Fish and Wildlife
20 Commission.
21 GENERAL CRIST: Thank you.
22 MR. CANTRELL: Good morning, Governor,
23 Members of the Cabinet.
24 We bring many projects to you all that
25 have public interest associated with them.
63
1 This one I think is very, very good because
2 this area is, this expansion of this marina is
3 in an aquatic preserve, but it's in an area of
4 aquatic preserve that was originally dredged in
5 1926. And if I could have the older aerial.
6 This is a 1953 aerial photography of the
7 same site. The area we are talking about is
8 this dredged area and this dredged channel
9 known as Wilson's Cut. As you can see,
10 tremendous seagrass beds here in Pine Island
11 Sound.
12 You go today, the same area, there is a
13 large marina to the north of the proposed site.
14 And through time, people have taken the
15 opportunity to not use the dredged channel but
16 take a cut off to the south across the shallow
17 water, and they scarred the seagrass area in
18 this area.
19 The public interest that is being proposed
20 by this applicant is to put this sign this size
21 in a kiosk at this facility to educate boaters
22 about the value of seagrass beds and how to
23 avoid impacting them.
24 He is also putting a similar kiosk at his
25 other facility in Cabbage Key, a smaller sign
64
1 but also again encouraging boaters to be
2 careful about seagrass beds.
3 He is also providing the opportunity for
4 local law enforcement to have a marine officer
5 present at the site to help with the manatee
6 speed zones.
7 So all in all, I think this is a
8 tremendous opportunity to protect seagrass
9 beds. He's also putting this sign, this size
10 sign, on a piling where people would enter into
11 the seagrass beds to again suggest to them
12 there is an alternative means of getting to
13 deep water.
14 So all in all, I think this is an
15 extremely important public interest this
16 gentleman is providing to the state.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
18 MR. STRUHS: Mr. Rose.
19 MR. ROSE: Good morning, Mr. Governor and
20 Members of the Cabinet. I come dearly today to
21 thank you once again for making this issue
22 something that we can come and speak to you about.
23 I actually don't come today to object to
24 this project. I really come to thank you for
25 making sure that these kinds of projects in
65
1 counties like Lee County which, because of its
2 lack of progress since 1989, with what it has
3 done, has brought us to a point where there
4 has, by judgment been made by the commission,
5 that they made substantial progress.
6 I submit to you that mostly it's
7 substantial progress because they had done so
8 little. Unlike a number of the other counties
9 since 1989 and then 2000, when you made this
10 issue a prominent issue for the people of
11 Florida, three other counties have finished
12 their protection plans, including Brevard
13 County. They took that measure seriously and
14 they responded.
15 We hope that Lee County is going to do the
16 same and bring that issue forward. I wanted to
17 remind you that recently, last winter, the Fish
18 and Wildlife Conservation Commission did an
19 assessment of the manatee population, looking
20 at the future risks. And they are looking at
21 as much as 50 percent of the population being
22 lost in the next 45 years.
23 Even more recently the United States Fish
24 and Wildlife Service through the Potassa
25 Research Laboratory, has done an assessment of
66
1 the population statewide and they are
2 indicating that the population will not likely
3 be able to be recovered within the next 100
4 years.
5 Within that report, they have also
6 indicated that there is a clear indication that
7 southwest Florida, of which Lee County and this
8 project is housed, there is a decline in the
9 manatee population.
10 Having said all of that, I think that -- I
11 hope that the message has been sent that we
12 need to get people back together, begin working
13 together.
14 And in that vein, we have looked at this
15 particular project. And as I said, we didn't
16 come here to object to the project because I
17 think when you look at its individual merits,
18 its location, the number of slips and those
19 kinds of things, they are the kind -- it's the
20 kind of facility that as these manatee
21 projection plans are finished and have already
22 been accomplished in other counties, that we
23 would be looking at a reasonable project for
24 boating expansion, and particularly when you
25 are looking at a situation where you have an
67
1 existing facility that's choosing to expand in
2 a reasonable fashion.
3 But I would hope and urge you in closing
4 to continue to let Lee County know that their
5 failure to plan has created really a mess in
6 southwest Florida, particularly in Lee County,
7 and one of which we have prepared and are
8 trying to work hard to solve so that we can see
9 a balance between manatee protection, which has
10 been as I said documented in a declining
11 situation, as well as total -- as well as the
12 boat mortality.
13 And I urge you to just continue that
14 dialogue and pressure so that the inappropriate
15 projects are not approved and that the
16 protection plan is finished and we can get on
17 with both protecting manatees and having
18 responsible, sustainable growth. Thank you.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir. Any other
20 discussion?
21 CFO GALLAGHER: I will move item 14, subject
22 to special lease conditions, and the payment of
23 $4,822.98.
24 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a
68
1 second. Without objection, the item passes.
2 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
3 Item number 15, we recommend approval
4 subject to lease conditions and the payment of
5 $788.80.
6 This is an opportunity to have a fishing
7 tournament in the Destin area. It is a 30-day
8 tournament. The permit would allow them to run
9 the 30-day permit -- 30-day tournament for
10 three individual years.
11 It is the preemption of approximately
12 60,000 square feet, more or less, for temporary
13 dockage of boats for the tournament during
14 those 30 days.
15 This would involve the installation of 108
16 pilings and the creation of 42 new temporary
17 slips. Our staff has recommended approval of
18 the item.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 15.
20 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a
22 second. Without objection, the item passes.
23 MR. STRUHS: Governor, on items 16 and 17,
24 they are separate items, but you might consider
25 them in tandem in that they are somewhat related.
69
1 In both cases, item 16 and 17, the holder
2 of a 10-year sovereignty submerge land lease
3 agreement is here to seek removal of special
4 lease conditions, those conditions essentially
5 limiting their ability to come back and ask for
6 amendments or changes to those underlying
7 leases.
8 We have a number of speakers. We have
9 Mr. Gregory Radlinski, who is the attorney for
10 the City of Jacksonville, they are here to
11 speak in support of our recommended denial.
12 We also have Ms. Beatrice Gamble on
13 item 16 and I believe Mr. Wiley Andreu on item
14 number 17.
15 I invite Mr. Radlinski to speak first
16 since he will speak to both items 16 and 17
17 collectively.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome.
19 MR. RADLINSKI: Good morning, my name is Greg
20 Radlinski, I am with the City of Jacksonville,
21 Office of General Counsel.
22 I am here to advise you that the city
23 supports the department's recommendation of
24 denial of the agenda items 16 and 17 and
25 objects to the relief requested by the Gambles
70
1 and the Andreus.
2 I also have with me Mr. Bob Baughman, who
3 is the deputy director of the city's Department
4 of Parks, Recreation and Entertainment. The
5 city owns the property immediately to the west,
6 I believe it is, of the Andreu docks. It's a
7 public park called Mandarin Park where we are
8 going to be building a state-funded boat ramp.
9 We object on two bases. First of all, the
10 Andreus' lease conditions which they seek to
11 avoid at this point stem from the 1982
12 settlement of an administrative hearing, and
13 that settlement was signed by Ms. Frances
14 Ferber, Ms. Ferber is the person who sold us
15 the property that became our park. We,
16 therefore, are the successors in interest to
17 her interest in the settlement agreement.
18 We do not believe that you could approve
19 the change of the settlement and the lease by
20 removing the conditions without Ms. Ferber's
21 concurrence and, therefore, without ours. The
22 city does not give that concurrence.
23 Additionally, as I said, we are building a
24 public boat ramp with state funds on our park,
25 and we are concerned about the increased
71
1 boating activity at the docks owned by the
2 Gambles and by the Andreus. They are asking
3 you to remove those conditions so that
4 ultimately, at some point in time, they may
5 come back to you and ask for more sovereign
6 submerged lands and increase their activities.
7 And once we open our boat ramp, we are
8 concerned about the activities that will happen
9 in Julington Creek with expanded boat ramps,
10 expanded docks and with our new boat ramp.
11 Now additionally, I want to point out, if
12 I may, that at the aides' meeting Mr. Andreus
13 mentioned that he voluntarily agreed to the
14 special conditions, and his comment was that
15 that was over 20 years ago and times have
16 changed.
17 Over 20 years ago, with the city's
18 predecessor's approval, he and the Gambles got
19 benefits they might not have otherwise obtained
20 at the expense of restrictions they now seek to
21 avoid.
22 If you grant these requests, they keep
23 their 20-year old benefits and are relieved of
24 the burdens of their deal without the
25 consequence and at the expense of the adjacent
72
1 landowner, Ms. Ferber's successor in interest,
2 the City of Jacksonville.
3 If I may I believe Mr. Baughman would like
4 to address the issue of the boat ramp.
5 MR. BAUGHMAN: Thank you. Governor and
6 Members of the Cabinet, I am Bob Baughman, deputy
7 director with the Department of Parks, Recreation
8 and Entertainment with the City of Jacksonville.
9 Back in 1989, the City of Jacksonville
10 purchased this 36-acre park from Frances F.
11 Ferber for the purpose of putting in a public
12 boat ramp. Because funds at the time were
13 limited, we actually built the park in three
14 phases.
15 First and second phase of the projects
16 have been completed. We have various picnic
17 pavilions, a fishing pier, there was an
18 agreement to actually reduce the size based
19 upon objections of the neighbors, and those two
20 phases are completed.
21 In 2001, we applied for a grant from the
22 Florida Inland Navigation District in the
23 amount of $18,000. The city matched that grant
24 with 32,000 of its own funds for completing of
25 phase one or design of the boat ramp.
73
1 For the 2003-2004 budget cycle for the
2 Florida Inland Navigation District we have
3 recommended, approved by resolution by the
4 Jacksonville City Council, to request
5 appropriation of $82,000 from the Florida
6 Inland Navigation Districts in which we'll
7 match 82,000 of city money for the purpose of
8 constructing a boat ramp. We are currently at
9 90 percent design of that project.
10 The purpose has been from the purchase of
11 the park to construct the boat ramp, and we
12 feel that additional boat traffic in that area
13 will impede upon the safety of the boaters and
14 will also impede upon the operation of our
15 public access boat ramp.
16 Thank you for your consideration.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you remind me what
18 appropriation -- was this a line item in the
19 budget?
20 MR. BAUGHMAN: This is through Florida Inland
21 Navigation Districts.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am talking about the state.
23 Wasn't there reference to the state having --
24 MR. BAUGHMAN: Just through the Florida
25 Inland Navigation District. The actual park
74
1 property was bought with some funds from the
2 federal government.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: The boat ramp, how about
4 that?
5 MR. BAUGHMAN: Florida Inland Navigation
6 District.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
8 MR. STRUHS: It would be helpful, I put
9 the --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I ask one more question?
11 Maybe I misunderstood, but is it the contention of
12 the city that, irrespective of what we do here
13 today, you have -- you have to approve, you have
14 to concur?
15 MR. RADLINSKI: That's our opinion, sir, that
16 we are party to the settlement agreement that
17 resulted in the changed conditions or the special
18 conditions in the leases. And no one has ever
19 come to the City of Jacksonville and asked: Do
20 you have any objection to our removing this lease?
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's an interesting point.
22 Does DEP concur with that? I assume you take it
23 they haven't --
24 MR. STRUHS: I am going to our attorney to
25 respond to that question, sir.
75
1 MR. VIELHAUER: Good morning, Bud Vielhauer,
2 deputy counsel for Public Lands.
3 It's a little bit complicated, the
4 settlement agreement. What we got is a
5 settlement agreement with the Board of
6 Trustees, the City of Jacksonville, Wiley
7 Andreu and Beatrice Gamble.
8 There is a subsequent agreement between
9 Melvin Andreu, Wiley Andreu, and Beatrice
10 Gamble in 1986. That is the settlement, or
11 agreement where the condition is that they will
12 not come back to the board and ask for any
13 further extensions.
14 The City of Jacksonville was not a party
15 to that particular agreement. However, there
16 are in the 1984 settlement agreements, there
17 are conditions that say how the other parties,
18 the Gambles and the Andreus, will park their
19 boats and where they will put those.
20 It's my opinion that they can't really
21 enforce this, us taking up this special lease
22 condition, but if the Gambles and Andreus come
23 back later on and ask for an actual change to
24 the lease and ask for approval to start
25 changing the lease and where they are going to
76
1 put the boats, then the City of Jacksonville
2 has stand to come in and challenge and prevent
3 them from doing that.
4 CFO GALLAGHER: So what are we doing here?
5 What we are doing is the first step, which it
6 looks like: Okay, let us out of 30A and 30C, and
7 so we can do that.
8 But then when they come back for an
9 extension, you guys are going to get in the
10 middle of that say say: Okay, fine, so we are
11 not in that lease, but we are not going to go
12 along with the extension or we are going to go
13 depending --
14 MR. VIELHAUER: It would be my legal
15 recommendation that when they come back and ask
16 for an expansion, that we not grant any further
17 expansions of the lease, because we are a party to
18 that agreement and ultimately the City of
19 Jacksonville is also and they would have standing
20 to challenge that and be successful, I would
21 think.
22 CFO GALLAGHER: Instead of getting the
23 first -- I think we ought to, as a Cabinet, if
24 that's true because -- everybody agree? David,
25 you agree that the City of Jacksonville has to be
77
1 involved in additional slips?
2 MR. STRUHS: I rely on my legal counsel on
3 that question.
4 CFO GALLAGHER: You agree?
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Does the City of Jacksonville
6 agree with that assessment?
7 MR. RADLINSKI: Governor, we believe we've
8 got standing right now to complain about removing
9 the conditions.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Assuming for a moment that --
11 that's not the question. The question is, you
12 also agree that you have that they would have to
13 have your approval to modify the lease or modify
14 the marina? Assuming you're wrong on the first
15 part, but you are comfortable on the second part?
16 MR. RADLINSKI: We'll say yes, sir.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am not saying that you are
18 wrong on the first part. I am not suggesting
19 that; it's not for me to actually have a legal
20 opinion. Are we going to hear from --
21 MR. STRUHS: Yes. We will take them in
22 order.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many people are here to
24 speak?
25 MR. STRUHS: As far as I can tell, we have
78
1 two. We have Ms. Gamble on item 16 and Mr. Andreu
2 on item 17.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Ms. Gamble. How are
4 you doing?
5 MS. GAMBLE: Scared to death.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, come on, I heard you done
7 so well in the Cabinet aides' meeting, they warned
8 me not to fall pray to your spell.
9 MS. GAMBLE: I appreciate that, but I don't
10 know what's knocking worse, my knees or my heart.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, come on, you will be
12 fine. Can I give you a little piece of advice?
13 MS. GAMBLE: Please do.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Out of this Cabinet, there
15 are more people -- you know more about this
16 subject than all of us combined, so that should
17 give you some confidence to speak.
18 MS. GAMBLE: If I can find my voice.
19 The purpose today is to ask you to delete
20 special conditions, special lease conditions
21 30C in my submerged land lease.
22 In the packet you have just received this
23 morning I will attempt to explain how this item
24 was added to the first renewal of my land lease
25 and not in the original land lease.
79
1 The original land lease was voted
2 unanimously to be passed. I think I would like
3 to use the overhead.
4 One thing, notice you can't see it, but
5 these boats are sailboats, so they are
6 slow-moving vessels. And when it comes to the
7 ramp at the park, I doubt they will hit it
8 because of the manatee. When they tried to get
9 it, they were voted down flat. All the owners,
10 land owners got together and got a lawsuit; I
11 don't think they will ever get a ramp in. And
12 I doubt seriously --
13 CFO GALLAGHER: Could you speak to the
14 microphone? There are people on the Internet
15 trying to hear what you are saying. Let somebody
16 else put the map up for you or your article or
17 whatever.
18 MS. GAMBLE: Okay. Notice that the date on
19 this, if you can see it, is Wednesday, July 3,
20 1985, the day after the Cabinet meeting approved
21 my --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who is the handsome looking
23 guy?
24 MR. STRUHS: Very young Bob Graham.
25 MS. GAMBLE: You mean Governor Graham?
80
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Didn't recognize him there.
2 MS. GAMBLE: There is a paragraph I would
3 like to read you from this.
4 CFO GALLAGHER: Governor, that's the way your
5 hair looked when you first got elected.
6 MS. GAMBLE: Better that, than the
7 alternative, you know.
8 A paragraph in this item says the Gambles
9 provided the Cabinet with copies of letters
10 from Jacksonville city council members,
11 legislators, the Jacksonville Chamber of
12 Commerce and business and civic groups
13 supporting the extension of the marina citing
14 the need for additional docking slips at
15 Julington Creek.
16 Graham said it was these letters that
17 convinced him an exception should be made for
18 the project because the Gambles showed there
19 was a need for the facility.
20 The next item is just the agenda item and
21 this, the aides got this complete packet. I am
22 sorry, I didn't bring another complete packet
23 for you to view.
24 And the next item is the original lease.
25 And then the next item is the renewed -- lease
81
1 renewal in 1991.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: The question at hand is, the
3 big question is, you promised not to come back and
4 modify the lease, isn't that right?
5 MS. GAMBLE: No, sir.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: No? Oh.
7 MS. GAMBLE: Oh, wait, when?
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Back when Bob Graham didn't
9 have gray hair.
10 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir. That is the May 30
11 agreement that you have?
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, ma'am.
13 MS. GAMBLE: You have the letter from DEP on
14 April 10 where they cited that special condition
15 28E, the lessee and future heirs and assigns
16 further agree that any present or future rights to
17 object to the adjacent structures are hereby
18 waived and this expansion as approved represents
19 the maximum allowable facility and/or expansion or
20 other actions will be requested or approved.
21 Now the three people that signed this
22 agreement got together last Friday and we
23 signed another agreement. You notice the May
24 30 agreement says, by virtue of this agreement,
25 the parties involved hereby dismiss all pending
82
1 administrative challenges and waive any present
2 and future rights to object to the structures
3 and facilities depicted on the attached
4 drawing. The parties also hereby agree that no
5 expansions to the structures shown on the
6 attached drawing shall be proposed or
7 requested.
8 Gamble and Andreu agree that no boats --
9 and that goes on to the particulars in there.
10 And it is signed by Melvin Andreu, Mandarin
11 Holiday Marina, then I signed it as Julington
12 Creek Pier and Wiley Andreus signed it as Bull
13 Bay Pier.
14 Now the next item you have got in your
15 packet -- well, this is the drawing that
16 accompanied that agreement. And then the next
17 item is the agreement signed last Friday or May
18 9th, 2003, between myself, Wiley and Melvin.
19 These are brothers. You have to know that
20 there is seven of us, or was seven of us, and
21 we were all so emotionally involved and we knew
22 what was there and what could be developed and
23 we all wanted to do it so badly, but we just
24 were too involved to accomplish it. But that's
25 why it took all these years to get it done. I
83
1 think it was from '78 to '92, '91, '92 before
2 it was finally accomplished.
3 CFO GALLAGHER: Did you all talk to each
4 other during this period of time?
5 MS. GAMBLE: In a fashion. It was very
6 difficult, very difficult for us.
7 CFO GALLAGHER: So you are the sister that
8 brought everybody back together?
9 MS. GAMBLE: Well, I hope. I am next to the
10 oldest in the family.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: We'll find out when the
12 brother comes to speak.
13 MS. GAMBLE: It was very trying. But on this
14 agreement where we agreed to undo and to solve the
15 problem that we did on the first agreement here --
16 and you notice the city is not party to this
17 agreement. It's just between we kids.
18 And then on May 9th, A, Gamble, Andreu and
19 Andreu are owners of adjacent property along
20 Julington Creek, commonly known as Julington
21 Creek Pier 3, Bull Bay Pier and Mandarin
22 Holiday.
23 B, Gamble, Andreu and Andreu have entered
24 into various agreements affecting Bull Bay,
25 Pier 3 and Mandarin Holiday.
84
1 And 3, and this is one of the clinchers,
2 among the agreements affecting the piers are
3 special lease conditions under paragraph 30 of
4 the sovereign submerged land lease which
5 restrict modifications to the piers.
6 And D, the parties have realized the
7 agreements have created a severe burden on
8 their heirs and successors and desire to modify
9 the terms of their agreements entered into in
10 connection with the leases in accordance with
11 the terms of the agreement.
12 Now, therefore, in consideration of good
13 and valuable consideration, the receipt of
14 which is acknowledged, the parties agree as
15 follows:
16 1, the parties previously agreed by
17 agreement dated May 30th, 1986 -- you have the
18 copy -- that quote, no expansions to this
19 structures shown in the attached drawings shall
20 be proposed or requested, unquote. The
21 structures as referred to on said agreement are
22 the piers as referenced herein.
23 Paragraph 2, the parties agree that the
24 prohibition against expansion to the structures
25 as set forth and the May 30, 1986, agreement is
85
1 hereby deleted.
2 And 3, this agreement sets forth the full
3 understanding of the parties with respect to
4 this matter.
5 We all three signed it, the same that
6 signed the original agreement and our
7 signatures are notarized. You have two copies
8 and then you have a reduced copy for your
9 records.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Ma'am, maybe we can cut to
11 kind of the important part here. As I understand
12 it, you've committed that you are not going to
13 expand beyond where you are now; you are not
14 building additional capacity.
15 You want to be able to operate -- correct
16 me if I am wrong -- you want to operate your
17 marina or your slips in compliance with the law
18 and right now you are out of compliance?
19 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir, but that will require
20 an expansion to do that. I will be glad to show
21 you.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. I thought you just
23 said you guys all agreed that you wouldn't expand?
24 MS. GAMBLE: No, it says we agreed to delete
25 that phase so we can expand.
86
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh.
2 MS. GAMBLE: Very definitely.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: You got to agree with us on
4 that, right?
5 MS. GAMBLE: Yes.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Good.
7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I do have a question
8 here, and I am trying to piece all this together
9 too because it's getting a little bit confusing
10 here.
11 The original agreement not to expand was
12 between the siblings, and each of the marinas
13 would not request an expansion so that all
14 three of the marinas remained basically the
15 same. That was the original agreement, is that
16 correct?
17 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir.
18 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: There was never any
19 mention that I have seen, unless someone has a
20 copy that I have not seen yet, that the city or
21 Duval County has made any mention they would not
22 be allowable to any expansions -- or their
23 approval, I haven't seen anything where the county
24 or the city has said that there will be no
25 expansion, other than what was agreed to by the
87
1 siblings involved in this marina situation brought
2 to the Cabinet.
3 MS. GAMBLE: That's correct.
4 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Okay. At least I got
5 that part of it straight.
6 So now what you are saying is that the
7 brothers and the sister have gotten together
8 now and decided that maybe they want to delete
9 that original agreement that you made
10 personally with one another?
11 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir.
12 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Okay. I am caught up
13 now.
14 CFO GALLAGHER: I am with you on all that.
15 At the end of the dock, you have placed vessels
16 that weren't part of the lease, is that correct?
17 MS. GAMBLE: One on either side, two of them,
18 yes.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: Any inside next to the land?
20 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir.
21 CFO GALLAGHER: Has everybody done that or
22 just you?
23 MS. GAMBLE: I am the only one, and the
24 reason is this. You will notice this area right
25 here is a pier that was built there by daddy years
88
1 before he gave us the property.
2 CFO GALLAGHER: You need to be to the
3 microphone, if you will.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Think of all those Internet
5 people.
6 MS. GAMBLE: That short pier was built by my
7 father years before he gave us the property. And
8 because of that pier jutting out in front of my
9 riparian, I had to go 165 feet into the water and
10 then make an L turn in order to get around that
11 pier to go on towards the channel. That's why the
12 L shape in the pier.
13 Now Mandarin Holiday has since taken that
14 pier up, so that leaves this 165 feet wide open
15 for my use. It's directly in front of me.
16 It's on the east side of my pier. Wiley and
17 Bull Bay is on the west side of my pier, and
18 the park is on the west side of my pier.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: Okay. I understand all that.
20 So what you did when that pier came out, you put
21 more vessels in there?
22 MS. GAMBLE: Well, one by one people started
23 coming in. We had some --
24 CFO GALLAGHER: They didn't come in without
25 you collecting any money from them, did they?
89
1 MS. GAMBLE: I didn't start collecting money
2 until just recently, and I paid the state
3 6 percent supplemental on every dime that came in.
4 And I will show you in this packet how I did that.
5 CFO GALLAGHER: Nobody is questioning that.
6 MS. GAMBLE: What are you going to do when
7 they are standing there and all this space, and
8 they are saying, I want to be on the water, and
9 there is room. What do you do?
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Again, your intention here is
11 not so much to build additional space, you already
12 built space out beyond your lease?
13 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. And you are leasing --
15 MS. GAMBLE: No, sir, I haven't built space.
16 The boats are there. I haven't put in piling. I
17 haven't put in slips.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let me restate that. You're
19 leasing to owners of sailboats.
20 MS. GAMBLE: They are pontoon boats that draw
21 about 12-inches of water.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: You are leasing boats in
23 property you don't lease?
24 MS. GAMBLE: Yes.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. We got that
90
1 established that's not legal. So you are seeking
2 a modification of the lease not to build
3 additional space, but to get good with the state?
4 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. And you got a fine to
6 pay, I assume?
7 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir. I have been cited. I
8 have not paid a fine yet.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: You paid your rent on space
10 that you didn't lease?
11 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: That you earned income on, so
13 you show good faith there?
14 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: You are not expanding; you
16 don't want to expand, and you realize if you did
17 expand, it would require the approval of the city?
18 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. We are making
20 progress.
21 MS. GAMBLE: I suppose it would. They are
22 not adjacent to me. They are within the footage.
23 CFO GALLAGHER: Is the city still here? I
24 would like to ask the city a question.
25 MR. RADLINSKI: Yes.
91
1 CFO GALLAGHER: Do you have any -- do you
2 believe the city has any disagreement or problem
3 with us allowing her to lease the existing dock
4 space that those pontoon boats are sitting on?
5 MR. RADLINSKI: As a practical matter, it
6 probably wouldn't make any difference because the
7 boats are fairly small, and we are only talking
8 about a very small area at the end of the dock.
9 We are also only talking about a very small area
10 landward of the large portion of the dock.
11 What concerns us most is relieving her of
12 the special conditions which would permit her
13 to build out whatever she wanted to. And
14 contrary to her statement, I believe -- and I
15 think that the state will agree with me -- that
16 the settlement that was reached in '84 that
17 Ms. Ferber signed pretty much limits them to
18 the footprint that they currently have.
19 Although we didn't sign the document, we are
20 successors to Ms. Ferber.
21 CFO GALLAGHER: Let me ask you this. It is
22 my desire not necessarily to -- maybe not change
23 3A and 3C, but to allow a change in the lease that
24 would let that property be leased. She would pay
25 the fine, she would pay for the property that she
92
1 has been using and that would be it. What would
2 the city say to that?
3 MR. RADLINSKI: That's acceptable.
4 CFO GALLAGHER: That's acceptable.
5 Therefore, Governor, I would like to allow --
6 leave the lease the way it is, but allow in
7 addition to it, which would be the land that is
8 now being used, the owner would pay the fine,
9 would pay any rent in arrears, and we move on.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a fine motion.
11 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I can second that.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second? Any other
13 discussion? We need anybody else to speak?
14 You need to speak now. You got a deal
15 here I think you will probably -- was that your
16 brother?
17 MS. GAMBLE: That's my husband.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: He doesn't need to speak,
19 does he?
20 MS. GAMBLE: He had a stroke.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am sorry to hear that. Any
22 other speakers?
23 MS. GAMBLE: He always did this and I did not
24 have to.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and second.
93
1 Any other discussion? Without objection, the item
2 passes.
3 MR. STRUHS: Governor, I was going to say
4 before you vote, if we can have just a 15,
5 30-second recess, 30 seconds.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay, the item hasn't passed
7 yet.
8 MR. STRUHS: Actually, Governor, if you would
9 like, we can temporarily pass it and come back to
10 it. We just want to make sure that everybody
11 agrees that what you want to do is going to be
12 accomplished.
13 CFO GALLAGHER: We wouldn't want to do
14 anything that wasn't illegal.
15 MR. STRUHS: You can temporarily pass it and
16 we can focus on item 17 and come back and we'll
17 resolve that.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: This, by the way, is for both
19 leases. Okay?
20 MR. ANDREU: I would like to speak.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: How come you didn't chime in?
22 All right. There is a motion and a second. And
23 there is additional discussion. Please, who are
24 you?
25 MR. W. ANDREU: I am Wiley Andreu, owner of
94
1 Bull Bay Pier.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Could you get the microphone
3 a little bit closer to you? I am sorry, say who
4 you are again.
5 MR. W. ANDREU: Wiley Andreu, owner of Bull
6 Bay Pier and I am to the west of the Gamble Pier
7 and adjoining property to Magnum Park.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: How are you related?
9 MR. W. ANDREU: Brother.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
11 Which pier is yours again, could you
12 point? Okay.
13 MR. W. ANDREU: The west one.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Recognize, sir, that
15 you may take victory from -- you may create defeat
16 from the jaws of victory here, but go ahead and
17 talk.
18 MR. W. ANDREU: I think you pretty well
19 covered most of the items I was going to address.
20 The only thing that was important to me for the
21 first paragraph, if I can read it, please, it
22 says: We have an unusual situation with three
23 adjoining but separate facilities being owned and
24 operated by family members.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, it is quite unusual.
95
1 MR. W. ANDREU: More specifically brothers
2 and sisters. This was the cause of agreements
3 that resulted in special lease conditions
4 number 30A, B and C. See attached pages for this.
5 And the 30 condition C was generated, I
6 think you pretty discussed it by now, but it
7 was generated by the first paragraph, the last
8 sentence of the three principal parties,
9 Mandarin Holiday Marina, Wiley Andreu and
10 Beatrice Gamble.
11 These agreements were done so that we
12 could proceed forward as one and in accord
13 whenever we made application to the state for
14 these leases or modifications for the lease.
15 And these we have now -- of course, this was in
16 1984, the original agreement, settlement
17 agreement between B. Gamble, myself and the
18 Department of Natural Resources, and Ms. Ferber
19 was a part of that agreement by way of my
20 request for her to be a part of that agreement.
21 She was my, to her west, adjoining
22 property owner, and I wanted to be certain that
23 she was comfortable with the location of these
24 piers as they projected in the waterway of
25 Julington Creek, and give her an opportunity at
96
1 that time to express her concern to agree or
2 disagree with riparian structures of these
3 piers.
4 That's the reason why, if you look at
5 paragraph 10 of that settlement agreement, it
6 addresses Ms. Ferber's concern, and it states
7 that she is -- she has the right, she has
8 viewed the locations of these structures, and
9 she agrees with these locations principally, if
10 we agree that she has the same right to build a
11 structure, similar configuration and all, and
12 that was the part, that was the only part she
13 has in this agreement.
14 The first paragraph in that agreement says
15 Ms. Ferber is not a party in this agreement.
16 She was made a party so she would have a right
17 to enforce any objections to the riparian
18 structures on the water's edge of these piers.
19 That's the only connection she had with it.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Mr. Andreu, can I ask you a
21 question, sir? I am sorry to interrupt, but are
22 you supportive of the concept that Commissioner
23 Gallagher proposed?
24 MR. W. ANDREU: Sir, I would, but now that we
25 have gotten older and we have created a real
97
1 burden here, the three of us created tremendous
2 burden for our heirs and successors. If they
3 are -- if the law changes, everything changes.
4 When this was done, this was a two-lane highway;
5 it's now a six-lane highway. So I want to undo
6 the burden we placed on our heirs and successors.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Wouldn't Commissioner
8 Gallagher's resolution satisfy that? Because you
9 would get good with your lease; your lease would
10 not be out of compliance and your heirs would have
11 something that would not have a conflict with the
12 city or the state? I am missing something, I
13 guess?
14 CFO GALLAGHER: My guess is what you would
15 like to do is have these taken out so that you or
16 your heirs could move those docks right on out
17 into the water. Is that what you are trying to
18 do?
19 MR. W. ANDREU: Sir, I don't think with the
20 guidelines that's in effect now by DEP and with
21 the ratio waterward with respect to the shoreline
22 and with the guidelines that are now in place,
23 that would never get before the Governor and
24 Cabinet.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Back to my question.
98
1 Wouldn't Commissioner Gallagher's resolution,
2 which he is going to restate here in a second, I
3 just want to make sure that we are accomplishing
4 is what you want without giving you the right to
5 expand out further into the water as he suggested.
6 Does that help your heirs?
7 MR. W. ANDREU: Well, unless conditions
8 changed the situation later on, the people or you
9 folks may somewhere along the line, where the law
10 is changed again and you are allowed to make some
11 increase to what structures you have --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: You would have to come back
13 and get approval from the city and from the state
14 then. But what we are suggesting, I think,
15 accomplishes your problem of creating a problem
16 for your heirs.
17 MS. GAMBLE: Governor Bush, the area that
18 Wiley would like to develop is on the east side of
19 his pier from that jog to shore, because the
20 settlement agreement years ago was they just took
21 my pier and flipped it over and gave it to him.
22 And now you will see the area from this
23 jog to shore, is what he would like to use.
24 This right here, on the east side of his pier.
25 And boats would come down the channel and to
99
1 the mouth. That's on the east side of my pier,
2 that first 165 feet, and the boats would come
3 down that channel. That's not addressed in
4 that motion, that that be done.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: In the resolution?
6 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: No, because we would ask you
8 to come back I think and seek approval for that
9 and seek approval from the City of Jacksonville.
10 I believe that would be the intent of the
11 resolution.
12 CFO GALLAGHER: Let me -- I am going to read
13 the motion which the lawyers say is what we need
14 to do here at this point. And then we can discuss
15 that so we are all talking about the same thing.
16 And my motion is to amend the condition
17 30C solely for the limited purpose of allowing
18 the lessees to apply to modify their leases to
19 allow moorings within the current footprint.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: That means you have to also
21 make good the conditions outside of their lease.
22 CFO GALLAGHER: I guess this footprint --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: I liked the first resolution
24 better. Don't let the lawyers screw it up.
25 CFO GALLAGHER: That's going to allow the
100
1 dock footprint which boats can use that.
2 MR. W. ANDREU: 30A just addresses the area
3 between the elbow and the landward lay between the
4 Gamble pier and Andreu pier.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: By the way, when you are
6 pointing at that screen --
7 MR. W. ANDREU: 30A addresses this area
8 between these two piers, between the elbow and the
9 uplands, this area here.
10 CFO GALLAGHER: Do you have boats moored
11 there now or docked there now?
12 MR. W. ANDREU: There is none there. There
13 was; there is none there. I was cited for that
14 area, and I removed those boats.
15 CFO GALLAGHER: What our goal here is that
16 without adding any dockage, you can use those
17 areas that you were cited for, that's not putting
18 any -- the footprint of the dock you have, you can
19 put boats on that where they fit, but you can do
20 any more than that. That is what this amendment
21 is to do, is to allow you to put boats on the
22 footprint of the dock where they would fit.
23 And that's what you would apply for a
24 lease for to the department. We are going to
25 eliminate that section 30C to allow you to do
101
1 that. Nothing else.
2 So both of you would be allowed to do it
3 to each of your docks. And the department will
4 accept an application for you to expand that;
5 you have to pay the fines, and you will pay the
6 new lease amount when you add that to it.
7 It does not throw out those agreements
8 because we just -- at least I don't feel that
9 we ought to throw out the agreement; leave that
10 as it is, but allow you to use the part that is
11 usable on that dock today, which you are not
12 able to use under your lease.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: We want to make what you are
14 doing legal.
15 CFO GALLAGHER: Legalize what you are doing
16 and pay the fines, et cetera. Can you go along
17 with that?
18 MS. GAMBLE: Yes, sir. Thank you so much.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: That's what this group is all
20 about. I think everybody will be happy with that
21 and we can move on. And we got the instructions,
22 right, David? Although we haven't moved and
23 seconded it.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a
25 second. Yes, David.
102
1 CFO GALLAGHER: We'll make it 30A and C to
2 allow the use of the dock where it can be used;
3 they may apply to you for that; they will pay past
4 fines; they will pay in the new lease what they
5 have to pay for rent; that's the motion.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a
7 second. Any other discussion? All in favor say
8 aye.
9 THE CABINET: Aye.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?
11 CFO GALLAGHER: That was for 16 and 17, is
12 that correct, David?
13 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
14 CFO GALLAGHER: 16 and 17, because that's got
15 both leases.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you all for coming.
17 Ms. Gamble, you were very persuasive. The Cabinet
18 staff was absolutely, correct. You take care of
19 your husband.
20 MS. GAMBLE: Thank you.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: How sweet.
22 MR. STRUHS: Item number 18 is consideration
23 of an application for 22 acres for a dredged
24 federal navigation channel. The local sponsor for
25 this project is Dixie County. It would also
103
1 authorize the severance of approximately
2 112,000 cubic yards of material, authorize the
3 construction of a 400-foot long bulk head, and
4 also a public easement granted to Dixie County to
5 spoil, approximately 17 and a half acres of
6 sovereign submerged lands, and to place wave
7 energy attenuating artificial reef structures.
8 That's the request. Our recommendation is
9 to approve the navigation channel, authorize
10 the severance, authorize the bulk head, and to
11 deny the fourth element, which is the 17 and a
12 half acre spoiling along Cat Island.
13 If I might explain the rationale for our
14 position. This is a project that we support.
15 We think it would bring some good economic
16 development to this community.
17 On the fourth element of this proposal,
18 though, we believe that it is inappropriate to
19 use the Big Bend Aquatic Preserve seagrass area
20 as a disposal site. As you know, this is an
21 item that has been before you a number of
22 times. The struggle has been to find a
23 suitable disposal site.
24 We believe that we have now come up with
25 an opportunity or an option that might be
104
1 beneficial to all the parties. If I can just
2 give you a little bit of a history.
3 One of the things we are working on
4 independent of this project is to clean out
5 some of the sand mounds that have been built up
6 along the floodplain of the Apalachicola River.
7 As we are looking to move that sand out of
8 those berms along the Apalachicola River, we
9 have done some research in terms of the cost of
10 loading it on to barges and actually using it
11 as a beneficial product in other parts of the
12 state for beach renourishment.
13 We learned a lot about the cost and
14 suitability of barging that kind of material
15 out of this part of the state. We believe that
16 rather than spoiling the 17 and a half acres in
17 the Big Bend Aquatic Preserve, that this
18 material, as part of the excavation, could be
19 barged to either an offshore disposal site off
20 Tampa, or actually be used for some beach
21 renourishment either in that vicinity, Keaton
22 Beach and other environs further south.
23 So we would recommend, again, approving
24 the first three elements, authorizing the
25 channel, authorizing the severance, authorizing
105
1 the bulk heading, but to not approve the fourth
2 element. And indeed that will then prompt the
3 project sponsors, Dixie County and the Corps of
4 Engineers, to pursue this other means of spoil
5 disposal.
6 Would be happy to speak to that if you
7 have any additional questions.
8 We do have a number of speakers who would
9 like to speak to this, both some for and some
10 against. We have got five in opposition and
11 five in support. And we also have Eric Draper
12 from the Audubon Society who I think is
13 somewhere in the middle. So why don't we ask
14 Eric to go first and we'll hear from the
15 opposition and from the support?
16 In the interest of time, what I would
17 suggest is that we set a marker of about a
18 minute per person and we'll be done in about 11
19 or 12 minutes.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. Thank you. Eric.
21 MR. DRAPER: I am an opponent.
22 MR. STRUHS: I am sorry, so we have six
23 opposed and five in support.
24 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: If I can ask this
25 question, it might simplify and get this done a
106
1 little quicker here.
2 Is the opposition mostly because of the
3 spoilage on Cat Island, or is it the opening of
4 the navigational channel itself, so that we --
5 MR. STRUHS: It's more fundamental to the
6 project itself. It's not limited only to
7 disposal.
8 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Okay. I thought it
9 might speed things up if we knew exactly --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Nice try.
11 MR. STRUHS: What I would like to do is I am
12 going to read out the names. If the guests could
13 queue up in this order and be prepared to move
14 through this pretty quickly. Mr. George Anderson,
15 Stan Meeks, Jeff Wiggins, Annette Long, David
16 Burnsed and then Eric Draper.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning, welcome.
18 MR. ANDERSON: Good morning, Governor, good
19 morning, Cabinet. My name is George Anderson. I
20 represent the Friends of the Great Suwannnee Reef.
21 I am a resident of Suwannee, Florida. I am a
22 business owner, owner of Anglers Resort, a marina,
23 RV park, cafe and lodging unit.
24 Friends of The Great Suwannee Reef is a
25 nonprofit organization dedicated to the
107
1 education and the protection of the Suwannee
2 Delta.
3 The question from the very beginning is:
4 Why dredge from McGriff Channel?
5 In August of 1999, Congressman Allen Boyd
6 said: Now that we have obtained authorization
7 for dredging, I am looking forward to working
8 with the Army Corps of Engineers and the
9 Suwannee Water Management District to ensure
10 that this stretch of the Suwannee River becomes
11 a safe and reliable waterway for commercial and
12 recreational boats.
13 In August 2001, officials with the Corps
14 stated that the dredging was essential for the
15 safety of boats moving into the Suwannee River
16 during sudden storms.
17 In February 2002, the Suwannee River Water
18 Management District announced they were no
19 longer sponsors for the dredging and the Dixie
20 County Board of County Commissioners were the
21 sponsors.
22 In January 2003, the application before
23 you now states that the reason for the dredging
24 is resource protection.
25 Why McGriff Pass should not be dredged:
108
1 Number 1, larger boats come and go now, except
2 on extreme low tides and then only till the
3 tide changes. Most commercial fishing boats in
4 this area are shallow draft boats.
5 Two, boat safety. For offshore fishing
6 boats as noted on this map, 20 miles offshore
7 or further, it is closer to Horseshoe Beach
8 where the dredged channel or Cedar Key channel
9 than it is to Suwannee. The reason is is the
10 bend in the coastline there.
11 You didn't have that on that map.
12 The Corps said that the project must be
13 justified economically and environmentally.
14 No report has been made available to us
15 after several phone calls, e-mail requests,
16 visits to the Suwannee River Water Management
17 District Office in Live Oak, DEP office in
18 Jacksonville, and a request from the Corps.
19 Let me talk about economics.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Mr. Anderson, you are nearing
21 the end of your discussion?
22 MR. ANDERSON: Yes, sir.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. It's a little bit more
24 than a minute so far, but keep going.
25 MR. ANDERSON: What was the question, sir?
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I thought we --
2 A SPEAKER: You are over a minute.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: You are taking away from the
4 rest of the people who may want to speak.
5 MS. ARMSTRONG: No, I don't want to take away
6 from the rest of them, but I think that we are
7 opposed to the channel for a number of reasons,
8 and I think that our -- I think our position is
9 justified, sir. I appreciate your time.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much. Hope
11 your business is going well.
12 MR. MEEKS: I am Stan Meeks. I am a trained
13 manatee observer. My work is accepted as credible
14 by the Florida Park Service, U.S. Geological
15 Survey Sarina project.
16 I would like to speak against this
17 dredging project and for the manatees. One of
18 first things I heard about this dredging
19 project was the safety of the manatees; going
20 to dig a deeper trench. On the surface they
21 say they have more room to escape, more room to
22 roll out from under the boats that pass under
23 them.
24 You dig a deeper ditch, you are going to
25 allow larger draft vessels to come in and out
110
1 of the Suwannee River. Right now commercial
2 vessels can enter in 5 feet or less draft; it's
3 not a problem.
4 Of the four years I spent on the Suwannee
5 River, I verified over 5,000 manatee sightings,
6 I verified 141 that returned to Manatee Springs
7 annually, I have seen some manatee births and I
8 have seen some manatee deaths.
9 The point I would like to make in the last
10 of my little time is there is not much left of
11 the old Florida coastline, about 148 miles of
12 it. It starts about Cedar Key and goes north.
13 148 miles of coastline is about 0.04 percent of
14 the original Florida coastline that's
15 undeveloped.
16 This area is also in the Aquatic Preserve.
17 This is the largest estuary on both coasts of
18 the United States of America. It's already
19 protected by the Suwannee River naturally.
20 Other than that, if you all would have
21 questions, I will be happy to answer them. I
22 abbreviated my presentation, I am a little off
23 key.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: You did really well. You got
25 a cool job, too, by the way.
111
1 MR. MEEKS: It's not a job; it's volunteer.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Volunteer? What do you do
3 for a living?
4 MR. MEEKS: I am a partially disabled Vet.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good. You do good work.
6 MR. MEEKS: I got to pay my taxes some way.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for coming.
8 MS. LONG: Hi, my name is Annette Long and I
9 live in Levy County, Florida, and I am going to
10 make this as quick as I can.
11 I am here to talk today about the sturgeon
12 that are in the Suwannee River and that utilize
13 the estuary.
14 Back in March of this year the Suwannee,
15 its estuary and the Suwannee Sound were
16 designated as critical habitat for the
17 sturgeon. That is because even though they
18 have been around for millions of years, they
19 were overfished and their habitat was reduced
20 significantly.
21 The Suwannee River has one of the
22 healthiest populations of sturgeon in the gulf,
23 and I believe that if you go messing around
24 with their feeding area and estuary, you are
25 going to do some damage to the sturgeon
112
1 population.
2 They don't eat the entire time they are in
3 the river, and they need what is in the estuary
4 to survive. And right now, they are feeding
5 predominately in the wintertime around the
6 proposed -- in the area around the proposed
7 dredge area.
8 To protect this poor fish that has been
9 around for millions of years that we have
10 damaged so badly, I hope you will really
11 consider this dredge because not only will it
12 be hurt now when they do the dredge, but this
13 dredge is going to have to be done over and
14 over again over the years because Mother Nature
15 is going to try undo what we done. And each
16 time that new dredging is done, it's going to
17 damage the fish again.
18 And that's short and sweet. I hope --
19 thank you for listening.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I ask a question?
21 MS. LONG: Yes.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you more concerned about
23 the filling around Cat Island being the proposed
24 spoil?
25 MS. LONG: No, I am not. That is a concern
113
1 definitely.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that where the breeding,
3 is that where the sturgeon --
4 MS. LONG: No. They are all around the
5 entire sound, excuse me, and when you -- they eat
6 things that grow in the muck and sand on the
7 bottom. And when you dredge that up, you have
8 totally changed the dynamics; not to mention when
9 you dredge one hole deeper, it's going to change
10 the salinity in all the other passes.
11 So just because you are just dredging this
12 one pass, you are affecting the sturgeon's feed
13 in all the other parts of the estuary. So
14 that's my concern.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's the dredging itself
16 rather than the location of the fill?
17 MS. LONG: Uh-huh. And of course, the silt
18 from dredging is also going to not just stay where
19 it's at; it's going to go out and it's going to
20 cover up some of their food further out in the
21 sound.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. Thanks for coming
23 up.
24 MR. BERKOWITZ: My name is David Burnsed, I
25 am a homeowner in Suwannee. I am a native, born
114
1 and raised and lived all my life in the State of
2 Florida. I seen many changes.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Where do you live, sir?
4 MR. BERKOWITZ: In Suwannee, town of
5 Suwannee, I have my home there.
6 Over the years I've seen many changes, and
7 I hate to say I've seen a lot of Florida's
8 natural beauty that has been lost; lost forever
9 my. My grandchildren and future generations
10 will not be able to see.
11 I bought a place in Horseshoe Beach back
12 in '73 which is just also north of Suwannee.
13 And I like to hunt and fish. After I retired
14 as a state employee, University of Florida,
15 about 31 and a half years I sold my house in
16 Gainesville and Horsehoe and bought a place in
17 Suwannee so I could be there all the time.
18 I hope all of you have had a chance to
19 ride on the Suwannee River to see its natural
20 beauty. I would hate to see any dredging of
21 extra saltwater or anything coming in to
22 destroy any of the natural beauty. Because I
23 feel proud to take any family and friends to
24 see what Florida really looks like.
25 So I ask that you do not approve the
115
1 dredging of the McGriff Pass so we will not
2 take a chance of losing the natural beauty of
3 the Suwannee River delta. Thank you very much.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
5 MR. REGANS: I am Jeff Regans, I live in
6 Jacksonville, Florida. I come before you today as
7 both a sportsman and a recreational boater.
8 I have had the privilege of experiencing
9 all the resources and the beauty of this
10 pristine ecosystem we all call the Lower
11 Suwannee Basin.
12 I am here to plead that you don't allow
13 this dredging project to proceed, as myself and
14 many other people who utilize this area feel it
15 will destroy the fragile balance of habitat so
16 unique to this preserve.
17 I want to say that contrary to any other
18 reports you may have heard, I have witnessed in
19 numbers and throughout various times of the
20 year several species of endangered and
21 threatened animals such as the manatee, the
22 gulf and shortnose sturgeon, sea turtles of
23 several different varieties and the American
24 Bald Eagle who use some of the islands in the
25 area as nesting sites as well as way too many
116
1 reptiles and other amphibians to mention. The
2 area is really just abundant in it.
3 As a sportsman I am concerned that the
4 dredge will increase the salinity further up
5 river. I haven't seen any reports on this, but
6 it could destroy various plant lives, different
7 types of oaks that thrive in the area that
8 animals depend upon to feed off of, which would
9 send them somewhere else.
10 As a boater, I own two boats. One is an
11 offshore boat for excursions and a small one
12 for fishing in the flats and playing on the
13 river. Offshore I've hit bottom in water a
14 foot and a half deep four miles off the shore
15 on some of the various local oyster reefs in
16 the area, four miles from the mouth of the
17 river; some of those reefs are over, wouldn't
18 you say, over 50 acres in size?
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: He doesn't know.
20 MR. REGANS: By encouraging the smaller boats
21 to come in by digging the channel, what you are
22 doing, it could very well become a common
23 occurrence, would be groundings with the larger
24 boats and captains that aren't familiar with the
25 area; this could create oil spills, destruction of
117
1 the reefs and possible harm to human life.
2 Seagrasses also would suffer. Islands,
3 the pumping on the islands that are nesting
4 sites for sea turtles, we do have a concern
5 about that. They have been stressed pretty
6 well by loss of habitat already.
7 I guess just in closing, I humbly invite
8 you to visit this area, enjoy some of the
9 natural beauty and please vote no on this
10 project and keep this area as it is intended, a
11 protected aquatic preserve.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir, for coming.
13 MR. REGANS: Thank you.
14 MR. DRAPER: Governor, Members of the Cabinet
15 my name is Eric Draper, Audubon of Florida. I am
16 here on behalf of the members of the chapter in
17 the area of Suwannee River who have encouraged us
18 over the years to oppose this navigation project.
19 The National Audubon Society has been
20 opposed to navigation projects in many parts of
21 the country. We consider these projects in
22 many cases to be unnecessary, environmentally
23 destructive and oftentimes just a waste of
24 money.
25 There are some places where you don't need
118
1 a 6-foot deep, 75-foot wide navigation channel,
2 that's unnecessary. You haven't really needed
3 that in the past, you don't need it right now
4 and you don't need to offer up the state
5 sovereign lands in order to make this channel
6 possible.
7 So we, of course, support what the agency
8 is trying to do in terms of not letting us
9 spoil Cat Island, but we think that this
10 Congressionally authorized project is
11 unnecessary. And you have an opportunity to
12 step in here and protect the environment. Just
13 say no to it by not giving them the sovereign
14 lands to do the channel. Thank you very much.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. We have some
16 proponents?
17 MR. STRUHS: Yes, we do, we have some
18 proponents. We have Mr. David Still of the
19 Suwannee River Water Management District, a
|
Cabinet
Affairs
