THE
CABINET
STATE OF FLORIDA
_____________________________________________________
T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
_____________________________________________________
Representing:
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
FSC OFFICE OF INSURANCE REGULATION
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
DEPT. OF AGRICULTURE & CONSUMER SERVICES
BOARD OF TRUSTEES
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush presiding, in the
Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida,
on the 17th day of March, 2005, commencing at approximately
9:45 a.m.
Reported by:
KRISTEN L. BENTLEY
Certified Court Reporter
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
2894 REMINGTON GREEN LANE
TALLAHASSEE, FL 32308 (850)878-2221
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APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
CHARLES H. BRONSON
Commissioner of Agriculture
CHARLIE CRIST
Attorney General
TOM GALLAGHER
Chief Financial Officer
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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I N D E X
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
(Presented by COLEMAN STIPANOVICH)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 5
2 Approved 10
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
(Presented by BEN WATKINS)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 11
2 Approved 11
3 Approved 12
FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION
(Presented by KEVIN McCARTY)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 13
2 Approved 14
3 Approved 16
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
(Presented by FRED DICKINSON)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 17
2 Approved 18
3 Approved 18
4 Approved 20
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FLORIDA LAND & WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
(Presented by TERESA TINKER)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 23
2 Approved 23
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE & CONSUMER SERVICES
(Presented by SHERMAN WILHELM)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 51
2 Approved 51
3 Approved 52
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
(Presented by COLLEEN CASTILLE)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 55
2 Approved 56
3 Approved 61
4 Approved 62
5 Approved 87
6 Approved 112
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION- 3/17/05
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1 PROCEEDINGS
2 THE GOVERNOR: Next cabinet meeting will be Tuesday
3 April 5th, 2005. You all are welcome back if you want to
4 come, get a front row seat here. It's like being at an
5 NBA basketball game. You're right on the ground floor.
6 About as riveting and exciting, isn't it? Not really.
7 Okay.
8 (Laughter.)
9 State Board of Administration.
10 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
11 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
12 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
13 Without objection, Item 1 passes.
14 Item 2, Coleman. How are you?
15 MR. STIPANOVICH: I'm doing good, Governor and
16 members, thank you.
17 THE GOVERNOR: You're doing well, you mean?
18 MR. STIPANOVICH: I'm doing well.
19 (Laughter.)
20 THE GOVERNOR: Good grammar is always important at
21 every age.
22 CFO GALLAGHER: Governor, before he does Item 2, I'd
23 like to congratulate him and our State Board of
24 Administration on the great job that we have done in
25 Florida and your money management in that when you take
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION- 3/17/05
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1 the assets of our pension fund and compare them to the
2 liabilities, we're one of the few states that has an
3 excess in that category which means we're solvent, we're
4 in great shape. You know, we've had a great year besides
5 that and we've had that for a while. Many states do have
6 problems there. That with our AAA bond rating, it really
7 makes us a very, very strong state economically and I know
8 that's your leadership, Governor, and also the great job
9 that you do, Coleman. We appreciate that.
10 MR. STIPANOVICH: Thank you, Treasurer.
11 THE GOVERNOR: The 700, how many people are in the
12 pension system?
13 MR. STIPANOVICH: 850,000 total. 650,000 active.
14 CFO GALLAGHER: 650 on the go outside and still in
15 and paying -- or we're paying most of it.
16 THE GOVERNOR: The good news is that we have an
17 actuarial -- this news is so good that I'm sure it will
18 never make the news so I thought it might be appropriate
19 to bring it up. We're at -- about 113 percent have an
20 actuarial surplus of 113 percent which when you have
21 billions of dollars, that's a lot of money. And we're one
22 of, at least last time we checked, two states that have an
23 actuarial surplus. Have there been any others?
24 MR. STIPANOVICH: Actually, Governor, if I may.
25 THE GOVERNOR: Yes, please.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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1 MR. STIPANOVICH: This is based on an independent
2 Wilshire study that was just released probably this week.
3 And I think there were -- I may be wrong on this one -- a
4 couple, I think it was about 15 funds, have a surplus in
5 this study that took in about 125 funds around the
6 country. And the State of Florida, which you won't see in
7 the report, but we have talked to Wilshire, you'll see all
8 the numbers, when we talked to Wilshire we asked them
9 where Florida is. Florida is the number one ranked fund
10 in the country in terms of surplus.
11 (Applause.)
12 CFO GALLAGHER: And, Coleman, I want you to know,
13 and, Governor, you will notice that Bill Cotterell is
14 actually taking notes so that he can put this in his
15 column. Isn't that right, Bill? Yeah, good. Well, thank
16 you very much. We're going to get some good news in the
17 Tallahassee Democrat.
18 MR. STIPANOVICH: And that's public funds. If I may,
19 I really want to genuinely say that this starts with
20 leadership and it's your leadership trustees that you
21 deserve most of the credit because you set policy and you
22 delegate to the executive director and investment
23 professionals at the State Board of Administration and
24 allow us to do our job.
25 THE GOVERNOR: We get out of the way is what we do.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION- 3/17/05
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1 MR. STIPANOVICH: Our government structure is the
2 envy of other pension funds around the country because
3 you-all allow us to do our job. You set good policy and
4 you provide leadership, you hold us accountable and we
5 work hard to provide the results. On another front, the
6 Legislature deserves much credit. They're a critical part
7 of this in that their fiscal responsibility they show in
8 the Florida Retirement System and one would be like, for
9 example, the law they passed several years ago, rate
10 stabilization mechanism. But the Legislature deserves
11 much credit as well with good public policy.
12 And then finally, the SBA employees working for
13 you-all are just outstanding. They're loyal, they're
14 dedicated and they're doing a good job and we're doing our
15 small part in terms of providing good investment returns.
16 We're the top quartile. We're in the top quartile of all
17 public funds in the country.
18 CFO GALLAGHER: Just, for whatever it's worth,
19 Coleman, I want to tell the other trustees and those here,
20 at one time I was the co-chairman of the Council of
21 Institutional Investors which includes state pension funds
22 and union pension funds and corporate pension funds. And
23 we really are a -- people are very jealous about how we
24 operate ours because the politics that takes place in most
25 of the pension funds throughout this country, including
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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1 corporate as well as union pension funds on what
2 investments ought to be made, what should be done, those
3 kinds of things, don't take place in the leadership in
4 ours. It is done all by professionals. We stay out of it
5 and we should. And most of these pension funds are so
6 jealous, their management and everything, that they wish
7 their funds would be managed the same way and they didn't
8 have interference by the trustees.
9 And one of the great things that we do here is we
10 take three trustees that are really busy doing other
11 things and they let the staff and the executive director
12 manage those funds and I believe that's one of the reasons
13 we're as successful as we are. And I just wanted to
14 mention that because it is, as you say, the way the
15 Constitution is set up and the way the Legislature has
16 allowed us to do it and the trustees themselves staying
17 out of the day-to-day minutia of how it should run and let
18 you-all run it and we're going to continue doing that.
19 THE GOVERNOR: Although we're not negligent on our
20 fiduciary responsibilities.
21 CFO GALLAGHER: Not at all.
22 MR. STIPANOVICH: The policy you-all set, we simply
23 implement. It sets a very high standard when you-all hold
24 us very accountable in ways you can quantify in terms of
25 performance measurements. So, again, it's that policy
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1 that we march to.
2 THE GOVERNOR: Item 2.
3 MR. STIPANOVICH: Request approval of fiscal
4 sufficiency of amount not exceeding 310 million State
5 Board of Education capital outlay refunding bonds.
6 GENERAL CRIST: Motion on 2.
7 CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
8 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
9 Without objection, the motion passes. Thank you, Coleman.
10 MR. STIPANOVICH: Thank you very much.
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE - 3/17/05
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Division of Bond Finance. Hello, Ben.
2 MR. WATKINS: Good morning, Governor.
3 THE GOVERNOR: How are you doing?
4 MR. WATKINS: Very well, thank you.
5 THE GOVERNOR: Excellent grammar.
6 MR. WATKINS: Good morning, gentlemen. Following
7 your lead, Governor.
8 Item No. 1 is approval of the minutes of the March 1
9 meeting.
10 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
11 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
12 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
13 Without objection, the item passes.
14 MR. WATKINS: Item No. 2 is a resolution authorizing
15 the issuance and competitive sale of up to $310 million in
16 capital outlay refunding bonds.
17 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Motion on 2.
18 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
20 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
21 Without objection, the item passes. This is to build
22 schools. Just wanted to let you know.
23 MR. WATKINS: And Item No. 3 is a report of award on
24 the competitive sale of $291,000,000 in Lottery revenue
25 bonds. The bonds were sold to the low bidder at a true
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE - 3/17/05
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1 interest cost of 3.95 percent. The transaction was 200
2 million in new money and about $92 million in refunding.
3 And the refunding piece of the transaction resulted in
4 gross debt service savings to the State of about $9.2
5 million or $7.1 million on a present value basis.
6 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
8 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
9 Without objection, the item passes. Those are for schools
10 too. Just wanted to let you know.
11 MR. WATKINS: Thank you, sir.
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FSC - OFFICE OF INSURANCE REGULATION - 3/17/05
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Financial Services Commission. Office
2 of Insurance Regulation.
3 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
4 THE GOVERNOR: Butterbean McCarty is here. Happy
5 St. Pat's Day.
6 MR. McCARTY: Thank you very much, Governor. Happy
7 St. Patrick's Day.
8 CFO GALLAGHER: The motion was seconded.
9 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
10 Without objection, Item 1 passes. Item 2.
11 MR. McCARTY: Item 2 is adoption of emergency rule
12 69OER05-05. The rule requires insurers to extend personal
13 and commercial residential property insurance coverage on
14 homes that sustained damage as a result of the 2004
15 hurricanes as well as Tropical Storm Bonnie for a period
16 of 60 days from the date the dwelling has been repaired
17 and is determined to be insurable.
18 CFO GALLAGHER: Governor, let me mention to the other
19 cabinet members.
20 THE GOVERNOR: Please.
21 CFO GALLAGHER: This rule is to carry forward what
22 we've been working on to make sure that those people who
23 have damaged homes get them fixed before the company would
24 nonrenew them. The reason for that is they can't get
25 insurance anywhere else when you have a damaged home. So
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FSC - OFFICE OF INSURANCE REGULATION - 3/17/05
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1 this is pretty important and we're seven months into the
2 end of these storms and there are many people who have not
3 yet gotten their final payments from their insurance
4 companies. So they're unable to get a contractor and get
5 their homes rebuilt through no fault of their own and it's
6 very important that they continue to have coverage. They
7 still have to pay for it but they continue to have
8 coverage until their home is repaired and there is a
9 shortage of contractors for them too and we have another
10 hurricane season coming upon us in 75 or 80 days. So this
11 is extremely important for us to do for these homeowners
12 so I appreciate your vote on this. I'll make a --
13 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Motion on Item 2.
14 THE GOVERNOR: Motion and a second. Without
15 objection, Item 2 passes.
16 Commissioner, would you like to talk about Item 3 as
17 well? Treasurer, excuse me.
18 CFO GALLAGHER: Yes, I would. We have a good cause
19 Item No. 3 which Commissioner McCarty has brought. I've
20 just told you-all about the claims that have not been
21 settled. Give you some numbers. There is 1,688,000
22 claims, one out of every four homes has been damaged by
23 one of the four hurricanes. In some cases, damaged by two
24 to three of these hurricanes. About -- the companies that
25 have been reporting 93 percent of those are handled, our
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FSC - OFFICE OF INSURANCE REGULATION - 3/17/05
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1 numbers show about 90 percent. Now, you know, that's all
2 well and good and I think people would say a 90 percent
3 figure sounds wonderful. And I guess that is all well and
4 good unless you're one of the ten.
5 That's about 145,000 people that have not gotten
6 their claims taken care of. That's pretty unacceptable
7 for those 145,000 people seven months later. And I
8 recognize that this is a tough thing when you have that
9 many claims. The total amount is $22,800,000,000. So
10 it's a tremendous amount of money. But these individuals,
11 many of them, it's 30 and $40,000. Some of them, less
12 than that and some of them, quite a bit more. But they
13 need to have the money so they can rebuild their homes and
14 rebuild their lives.
15 This emergency rule is one that gives the industry 30
16 days from today -- and I'll let Kevin discuss it -- to get
17 these claims taken care of or report to the Office of
18 Insurance Regulation exactly which claims have not been
19 taken care of and why. And I think these people have the
20 right to know that and I think the Office of Insurance
21 Regulation has the need to know that and get everything we
22 can do to get these claims taken care of and that's why
23 I'd like to see us pass this emergency rule.
24 THE GOVERNOR: Is there a motion?
25 CFO GALLAGHER: I'll move it.
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1 THE GOVERNOR: And a second?
2 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
3 THE GOVERNOR: Kevin, would you like to add anything?
4 MR. McCARTY: No, sir.
5 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
6 Without objection, the good cause item, Item 3 passes.
7 Thank you, Treasurer. Thank you, Kevin.
8 MR. McCARTY: Thank you, Governor.
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DHSMV - 3/17/05
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Department of Highway Safety and Motor
2 Vehicles.
3 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
4 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
5 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
6 Without objection, the item passes. Item 2.
7 MR. DICKINSON: Item 2 is a submission of our
8 quarterly report for the quarter ending December 2004. As
9 you'll notice, some of those enforcement figures are down
10 a bit because we were still on hurricane duty. What I'd
11 like to point out, Governor, that was the first time with
12 your support we were able to do away with the Internet
13 convenience fee. We have saved the Floridians of Florida
14 $2 million in about four months. That's how much they
15 have now used the Internet for renewal of their driver
16 license and tags. So that seems to be working famously.
17 THE GOVERNOR: It sounds like when it's a convenience
18 fee, it ought to be convenient. Anyway. That's my
19 little --
20 (Laughter.)
21 That's on behalf of Brian Yablonski. I can speak on
22 his behalf and I can tell you that he appreciates your
23 leadership in that regard. Item 2, that's it?
24 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir, that's item 2.
25 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion to approve 2.
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DHSMV - 3/17/05
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1 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
2 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
3 Without objection, it passes.
4 MR. DICKINSON: Item 3 is a final adoption of a rule,
5 15B-2 Florida Administrative Code, and this deals with
6 speed measuring devices. We did this last year. This is
7 a checkoff box on the speeding ticket. Kids, for those
8 cars that are going over 100 miles an hour --
9 THE GOVERNOR: For those that have a license.
10 MR. DICKINSON: Speeding ticket time. This would
11 enable the law enforcement officer to check the box for a
12 hundred or over and we're just revising the rule to
13 reflect that.
14 GENERAL CRIST: Motion on three.
15 CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
16 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
17 Without objection, the item passes.
18 Item 4.
19 Don't tell me we have more license plates.
20 CFO GALLAGHER: We're hitting a hundred, I think.
21 MR. DICKINSON: We got four tags. That will bring us
22 to 100 specialty plates here in Florida. Governor, I did
23 want to point out, there are five plates on the board.
24 The middle plate is the one I wanted to point out, Arrive
25 Alive. We are in a situation this year, as I mentioned to
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1 you the other day at the agency head meeting, we're about
2 29 percent already this year over last year's figures and
3 we're only in March. March, April, and May are our three
4 deadliest months on our Florida highways because of spring
5 break, a lot of the snowbirds going back north and some
6 other things. And as I mentioned to the Governor, there's
7 an inverse correlation with the economy. So the economy
8 is booming and unfortunately we're having a lot of
9 multiple fatality crashes on our highways. And I want to
10 point out I love all these tags. This will bring us to
11 100. But to me, the most important tag is that Arrive
12 Alive tag. And our law enforcement community, all the
13 groups, MADD, SADD, all those collateral groups are
14 certainly pushing hard to try to reduce the fatalities in
15 Florida and we appreciate your support in that regard.
16 THE GOVERNOR: Fred, when you say you're 29 percent
17 up, it's 29 percent year-to-date to year-to-date or
18 29 percent over all of last year?
19 MR. DICKINSON: Year to date, year to date.
20 THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Good.
21 MR. DICKINSON: But that still translates into 162
22 more fatalities this year than at the same date last year.
23 THE GOVERNOR: Yeah, it's a horrible problem.
24 MR. DICKINSON: You know what happens. We also have
25 four other tags and we've got -- I think you probably want
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1 to do this, as we've done in the past, go ahead and do the
2 motion and then we'll bring the individual groups up. But
3 the four tags are --
4 THE GOVERNOR: Unless there are some concerns about
5 the design, anybody got a problem?
6 CFO GALLAGHER: I'll move Item 4.
7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
8 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
9 Without objection Item 4 is passed.
10 MR. DICKINSON: The first two tags, Aquaculture and
11 Save our Seas -- I'm sorry.
12 THE GOVERNOR: Please, why don't you ask everybody to
13 come up. Or how are you going to do this?
14 MR. DICKINSON: The first two tags are Aquaculture
15 and Save our Seas. The Harbor Branch Oceanographic
16 Institute and Guy Harvey Research Institute, Steve
17 McCulloch, Yawn Petri, Steve Stock and Jim Harvey.
18 THE GOVERNOR: Welcome.
19 MR. McCULLOCH: Like to thank the governor and the
20 cabinet, Department of Highway Safety, Department of Motor
21 Vehicles and Fred Dickinson and his staff for enabling us
22 to pass this legislation which will benefit Florida's
23 aquaculture industry and our marine science and support of
24 important research conducted by the Harbor Branch
25 Oceanographic Institution. And, again, thank you very
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DHSMV - 3/17/05
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1 much.
2 (Pause.)
3 MR. DICKINSON: Governor, the next tag is the
4 Sportsmen's National Land Trust. David Wilcox and Ken
5 Oden are here. And this is to preserve habitat, promote
6 conservation. Senator Bennett and Representative Galvano
7 and Representative Regan couldn't be here with us but they
8 were sponsors of this legislation.
9 THE GOVERNOR: All right. Come on up here and get a
10 picture.
11 MR. WILCOX: Thank you, Governor. Well, Governor and
12 members of the cabinet, we very much appreciate the
13 opportunity to expand the available wildlife habitat and
14 public lands for public recreation in the state of Florida
15 and we look forward to this tag being a big success.
16 MR. DICKINSON: Governor, the last tag is the Family
17 First tag to promote the Family First Foundation to
18 promote parenting programs. Mark and Marky Merrill.
19 Twins.
20 MR. MERRILL: Governor, I will have to say that Marky
21 just looked at that sportsman's tag and said, I want that
22 buck tag. So we have some serious competition,
23 Commissioner Bronson.
24 THE GOVERNOR: We were just talking about that.
25 THE WITNESS: It is a nice tag. Governor, we look
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1 forward to seeing this tag on your vehicle and all the
2 trustees, thank you. And, Governor, thank you sincerely
3 for being a governor who does put families first. Thank
4 you.
5 (Applause.)
6 MR. DICKINSON: Governor, if I might, this is the
7 No. 100 tag for the State of Florida. Can I get a picture
8 with Paula Stanfield who has done all of these tags for
9 the Department and is our tag girl?
10 (Applause.)
11 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, Fred.
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FLAWAC - 3/17/05
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
2 Commission.
3 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
4 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
5 THE GOVERNOR: T-Square, how are you?
6 MS. TINKER: Fine, thank you. How are you?
7 THE GOVERNOR: Doing well. Thank you. There is a
8 motion and a second on Item 1. Without objection, the
9 item is passed.
10 MS. TINKER: Item 2, request approval of the proposed
11 final rule establishing the Hawks Haven Community
12 Development District in Lee County.
13 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
14 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
15 THE GOVERNOR: Motion and a second. Without
16 objection, the item is passed.
17 MS. TINKER: Governor, with your permission, we'll
18 take Items 3 and 4 together. The staff's recommendation
19 is to approve the draft final order accepting review and
20 affirming the St. Johns River Water Management District
21 final order. We have several speakers. We've allocated
22 time limits. Jerry Harris and Dr. Dan Canfield will be
23 sharing five minutes. Mr. Harris is one of the
24 Petitioners.
25 THE GOVERNOR: Good morning. Welcome.
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FLAWAC - 3/17/05
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1 MR. HARRIS: Good morning. Jerry Harris, wife and I
2 own Sportsman's Cove on Orange Lake.
3 THE GOVERNOR: How are you doing, sir?
4 MR. HARRIS: All right. We thank you for the
5 opportunity and your allowing to review the issues of
6 Orange Lake. We're very pleased that you have clarified
7 your jurisdiction to review nonaction issues of the
8 Agency. At this time, we can almost support the staff
9 recommendation. It's taken three years to get from
10 proposal of the sinkhole permit to here. During those
11 three years, Orange Lake has changed considerably. The
12 window of opportunity of low water events that we were
13 going to fix the sinkhole in no longer exist.
14 THE GOVERNOR: The water is coming back?
15 MR. HARRIS: Water is back. We have plenty of water.
16 THE GOVERNOR: So good. I mean --
17 MR. HARRIS: The issue is not over, sir, please.
18 (Laughter.) The fish, the catching, still missing. It's
19 even so bad that for a couple months now since the last
20 hurricane, DEP aquatic vegetation has been out doing some
21 serious vegetation projects, multi-million-dollar
22 projects. For the last three weeks, St. John Water
23 Management has been trying to shut them down, trying to
24 stop them. So we still have serious issues with Orange
25 Lake.
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FLAWAC - 3/17/05
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1 Now, Dr. Canfield, we submitted these issues in the
2 process over the past few years and they are part of the
3 undisputed record. Dr. Canfield is going to help me
4 explain these issues a little better for me. Thank you
5 very much.
6 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, sir.
7 DR. CANFIELD: Good morning, commissioners. My name
8 is Dan Canfield. I'm a professor in limnology at the
9 University of Florida and I'm the founder and director of
10 our highly successful Citizens Volunteer Water Quality
11 Monitoring Program called Florida Lake Watch. My
12 specialty is the management of aquatic systems and I've
13 been involved in Orange Lake since 1979. And part of my
14 job down there has been working with elected officials and
15 natural resource agencies and the citizen groups to try to
16 manage our waters.
17 Now as you prepare to render your final decision,
18 there are three critical issues that I hope you will
19 address in your order. The first issue revolves around
20 the designation of Orange Lake within the outstanding
21 Florida water chapter. Under that grouping of outstanding
22 Florida water, there is this listing called special
23 waters. Orange Lake is a special water. It was placed
24 there because prior to the existence of water management
25 districts, Fish and Game, Alachua County, and Marion
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1 County all agreed that Orange Lake should be a fish
2 management area. Then in the '80s when we decided more
3 protection was needed, the Fish and Wildlife Conservation
4 Commission proposed making Orange Lake a special
5 outstanding Florida water, which passed. So it's in the
6 statutes now. That's an issue that becomes important
7 because for a lot of us in government that work on these
8 lakes, the public trust is maintain the fisheries because
9 if we do, that animals survive and the people survive. So
10 that's issue one that I'm going to talk to you about.
11 Issue two is the management of the aquatic plant
12 community within the high water mark of our lakes.
13 Florida Statutes are very clear at this point in time that
14 those plants are under control of Florida Department of
15 Environmental Protection, the DEP Bureau of Aquatic
16 Plants. What is happening here is if you or I wish to do
17 something, we have to have a permit. The Water Management
18 District in this act -- case, excuse me, and other
19 districts are trying to classify plants in this area as
20 wetlands under their jurisdiction.
21 So we have a conflict with the agencies. And so one
22 of the issues is: Are these plants really a wetland under
23 St. Johns Water Management District or are they under the
24 Bureau of Aquatic Plants in DEP. And I believe the
25 statute is very clear at this point that it's under them.
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1 If they become wetlands, it's going to limit Fish and
2 Games' restoration efforts around the state where they're
3 trying to remove these plants to restore lakes and it will
4 limit all riparian owners' rights to manage their
5 shorelines.
6 The third issue that we're going to address is
7 probably more important and it comes back to who is in
8 charge. Now, this whole issue, the permit issue, started
9 because our elected officials in north central Florida led
10 by Senator Rod Smith convened a public meeting of the
11 government entities and said, What can we do to help this
12 lake. I want something that is low cost. I want
13 something that is cost benefit and we can try to find a
14 compromise.
15 What happened at that meeting was this device, this
16 water management device, was brought forth. It was not
17 totally suitable. It was modified per discussions with
18 Fish and Game, per discussions with DEP, per discussions
19 with the Water Management District to try to get a device
20 that could solve most of the problems. Now what happened
21 in this device that is brought forth by Marion County and
22 they were the group that agreed to accept the ball and try
23 to carry it, is if we had installed this device at the
24 time that the lake was low, we had an advantage over other
25 devices.
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1 Orange Lake was going to be monitored by Fish and
2 Game, monitored by DEP and monitored by St. Johns. If
3 this wassail wetlands as proposed by St. Johns and their
4 allies were to occur, we would know it and all we would
5 have to do is bring a crane down to Marion County's Higgy
6 Piggy Park (phonetic), pull out the device, the sinkholes
7 open and everything goes back to restoration. However, if
8 the benefit was correct as proposed by the government
9 people and their conferences, we would have the lake
10 restored. It would fluctuate naturally except for this
11 very narrow window. We would end up having a major
12 ecotourism industry that is worth 15 plus million dollars
13 a year to the community. And if we had to, we would end
14 up saying -- we could still manage it but we would have
15 pleased more than just a few fish and game holders. We
16 would appease a majority of fishermen, Floridians that
17 wanted this as an outstanding Florida water.
18 So three issues. I'll finish up. What I ask you for
19 is to amend the motion, the draft order plant before you.
20 One, affirm that Orange Lake is a special Florida water
21 and that agencies will manage for those goals as in
22 statute. Two, affirm that the aquatic plant community and
23 lakes are not wetlands but under the DEP authority per
24 state statute. And, three, establish a chain of command
25 in the management issues where the biological resources
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1 per our Constitution and statute, biological resources are
2 the domain of Fish and Game and DEP and that the other
3 agencies defer to Fish and Game per what happens in
4 aquatic plant management already. Thank you. I'm sorry
5 about taking too much time. I'll answer any questions you
6 have.
7 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, sir. We may get you back.
8 Let's hear from all the speakers.
9 MS. TINKER: Thank you, Dr. Canfield. The next
10 speaker is Marion County commission chairman Andy
11 Kesselring. Marion County is also a Petitioner in this
12 proceeding.
13 MR. KESSELRING: Good morning, Governor and cabinet
14 members. I hope that we can --
15 THE GOVERNOR: Can you turn that around?
16 MR. KESSELRING: Good morning, again. My name is
17 Andy Kesselring. I am the chairman of the Board of County
18 Commissioners of Marion County and I want to thank you for
19 hearing basically our request for a reversal of a denial
20 of our permit application to the St. Johns Water
21 Management District. I can say on behalf of the Board
22 that we have unanimously backed this project from a number
23 of years ago and we have stepped up to the plate and have
24 actually funded portions of these studies on our own
25 because we think that it's that important.
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1 Orange Lake is right on the northern border of Marion
2 County. And you probably have most of the background
3 information, the technical things, so I'm not going to go
4 over that. But I think that there are some critical
5 issues that probably are not part of that technical report
6 that I really want you to consider this morning as you
7 make your decision. One, Orange Lake is a major economic
8 resource for Marion County. Every business that depends
9 on Orange Lake and access to Orange Lake is located in
10 Marion County.
11 The second thing is Marion County has a major public
12 park that is right on Orange Lake. The reason why I
13 wanted to show these pictures to you is the picture that's
14 on the left is the normal mean level. That's normal. And
15 you can see where we're at. The picture on the right is
16 what happened during the severe drought back in 2001,
17 2002. That had a major impact on the recreational
18 opportunities for the citizens of Marion County. In
19 addition to just being able to go out on that and being
20 able to --
21 THE GOVERNOR: Commissioner, I'm sorry, but it looks
22 like there's a canal that goes out into the main body of
23 water.
24 MR. KESSELRING: Periodically they do try to dredge
25 those to be able to provide boat access. The problem is
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1 because this lake is so shallow, those canals fill in
2 within just several months. So it's a continued effort to
3 try to keep any of those canals open at these low water
4 levels.
5 As I was going to say, the unique part of this is it
6 gives Marion County residents a chance to kind of
7 experience unspoiled Florida and there's little of that
8 left and it is a prime place for hunting and fishing. And
9 when water levels go down like they are, it pretty much
10 precludes access to this lake. What we're asking is to
11 establish a structure, it's not to plug the sinkhole, but
12 it's a structure that is going to maintain the normal mean
13 level in that lake.
14 You'll hear in the documentation that if we allow
15 that to happen that it would impact a number of acres of
16 supposedly wetlands. And I think Dr. Canfield addressed
17 that. The problem is, from our standpoint, is in the vast
18 majority of the time, those lands are already under water
19 because that's what normal mean water levels are. And all
20 we're saying is we want to maintain that at that level.
21 When you have these severe water level drops which
22 happens probably on a 12 to 15-year basis or a real
23 significant one like we just had back in 2001, 2002, that
24 happens probably about every 40 or 50 years, it has a
25 dramatic impact not only upon the citizens but also the
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1 businesses. I can appreciate as a landscape architect,
2 that's my profession, the need to protect wetlands. But I
3 also think there is a balancing act in this.
4 I think what's interesting to note is St. Johns Water
5 Management District typically requires sinkholes to be
6 plugged and fill in situations similar to this. However,
7 they've looked at this project in a different way because
8 personally I believe that they have a different agenda for
9 this lake.
10 THE GOVERNOR: Why? What is it?
11 MR. KESSELRING: Well, first of all, what's happened
12 is they are believing that the wetlands portion of this
13 and the ultimate goal is to have prairie land and wetlands
14 that will extend over extended periods of time. That has
15 taken precedent over having an open body of water. And I
16 think that you'll find that because there have been
17 manmade structures already put on that are diverting water
18 out of Orange Lake. Up at Camps Canal (phonetic), they
19 put in a structure back in the '80s, and this may have
20 been before the Water Management District was involved,
21 but it's actually diverting water from Orange Lake into
22 Paynes Prairie and I believe through all our conversations
23 that there is just a difference of opinion between what
24 the Water Management Districts and the users in Marion
25 County want to have for that water body.
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1 I totally believe that you can have an
2 environmentally sensitive design that will address both of
3 these issues. I'd like to give you just a little bit of
4 an idea of what we're really talking about. There is some
5 concern about less than 2,000 acres of wetlands that may
6 be submerged if we keep it at this mean level. In normal
7 water level times and even when the structure is
8 installed, there still will be over 6,000 acres of
9 wetlands available in Orange Lake.
10 But the difference is that at normal, mean water high
11 level -- I mean water levels, that lake is 12,900 acres
12 large. At the low level in 2001, that lake was down to
13 1,800 acres, it's a very shallow lake. So any kind of
14 deviation in the elevation has a major, major impact on
15 the size of it.
16 THE GOVERNOR: What is it now?
17 MR. KESSELRING: With the hurricanes that came
18 through, the water levels are back up. And that's a
19 wonderful thing.
20 THE GOVERNOR: Is it back to normal?
21 MR. KESSELRING: I'm not sure that it's completely
22 back to normal but it's pretty close.
23 MR. HARRIS: It's above average.
24 MR. KESSELRING: Is it above average at this point?
25 What the problem is and what really has the impact upon
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1 everybody is that when these levels drop off, which
2 happens frequently, it doesn't take too many months of the
3 business owners not having access to that lake to put them
4 out of business.
5 THE GOVERNOR: Hasn't that been that way from the
6 beginning of time? I mean, it goes up, it goes down.
7 It's kind of how God works.
8 MR. KESSELRING: Well, and that probably is -- but
9 things change over the years and there have been a lot of
10 people that have depended upon that area. So we would ask
11 that you really consider, you know, the overall impact
12 about what's been happening over the last 20, 30, 40 years
13 in Marion County and how that's worked. The last time we
14 had a severe drought like this was back in the 1960s.
15 And, of course, an awful lot has happened in central
16 Florida since that time. We believe that there is a
17 reasonable compromise. That's why we hired Dr. Canfield
18 who is an expert in this area to come up with this design.
19 And we just hope that you would reverse the Water
20 Management District's order.
21 THE GOVERNOR: Notwithstanding what we decide to do,
22 I can tell you we've come a long way because the
23 contraption that I saw designed is significantly better
24 than throwing cars down a sinkhole. Who came up with that
25 plan?
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1 MR. KESSELRING: Actually, somebody was saying that
2 we should emphasize that.
3 THE GOVERNOR: That thing will float up here and end
4 up in Lake Jackson in the sinkhole here.
5 MR. KESSELRING: Whatever happened a long time ago
6 was absolutely the wrong thing to do. But we do believe
7 that we have a good design at this point that actually
8 balances those two things. And I'll be more than happy to
9 answer any questions as it goes through as it relates --
10 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, sir. Thank you for being
11 here.
12 MS. TINKER: Next group of speakers have also agreed
13 to share their time. So we've allocated ten minutes
14 total. The first speaker is Katherine Mennella, the
15 general counsel for the St. Johns River Water Management
16 District.
17 MS. MENNELLA: Good morning, Governor and Cabinet.
18 THE GOVERNOR: Good morning.
19 MS. MENNELLA: The commission's role today is to
20 basically determine two things. Whether the District's
21 action in denying Marion County's application to plug this
22 sinkhole is consistent with the District's own rules and
23 whether it's consistent with Chapter 373. The Commission
24 sits today as an appellate body, not as a fact finder
25 under your statute. And let me read specifically from the
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1 statute with regard to the governing board's findings of
2 facts that have already been made.
3 The facts under the statute, the facts contained in
4 the proposed Water Management District action including
5 any technical staff report shall be deemed undisputed.
6 Let me share with you a few of the undisputed facts in
7 this case, please. These all come from the District's
8 order. This proposed project would adversely impact
9 1,899 acres of wetlands. The second undisputed fact, the
10 predicted change to the hydra period of the lake and the
11 substantial alteration of the wetlands would adversely
12 affect wildlife. The third undisputed fact. The
13 applicant has not proposed any mitigation for this adverse
14 impact. These undisputed facts are a significant legal
15 problem to the application --
16 THE GOVERNOR: Can you help me here? I apologize.
17 But isn't what's being proposed simply a means to regulate
18 the level of water and keep it within a narrower range of
19 high and low instead of the natural range which is we have
20 droughts, we have floods. We have hurricanes we have -- I
21 mean, you know, the range is higher. So the question is
22 how does -- if right now the water levels are already
23 above normal are the wetlands already being destroyed
24 because -- hang on. I'm asking her. Thank you.
25 MS. MENNELLA: Sir, the --
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Where is the area impacted if --
2 MS. MENNELLA: The proposal here would -- think of
3 the hydra period looking like this.
4 THE GOVERNOR: Yeah.
5 MS. MENNELLA: So what would happen here is the highs
6 would be higher and the lows would be not close to as low.
7 You're correct in that it would fluctuate in a more narrow
8 range, the range would be moved up. And what's happened
9 is the bathymetry of the lake is such that if you hold the
10 water higher, the shallow wetlands, the shallow wetlands
11 surrounding the lake, will get too much water and they
12 basically will be drowned out. It's not that they will
13 move up so that they'll just be at another level because
14 of the bathymetry of the lake.
15 And what happens as a result of this, the natural
16 fluctuation of this lake, and this is a fact that's in the
17 record, is 12 feet. And those low dips are critical to
18 oxidizing the muck in the bottom of the lake and therefore
19 not causing them to be resuspended and water quality is
20 thereby improved. In addition, during those low period
21 times, that's the time that the seeds from the wetlands
22 recolonize into this area of the shallow marsh and these
23 are the areas that are critical for spawning and feeding
24 for fish and wildlife.
25 THE GOVERNOR: So just to -- please, I apologize
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1 because I'm trying to understand this. What you're saying
2 is that the wetlands will -- they'll be altered not
3 because of being impacted by water but being impacted for
4 a greater period of time. I mean, right now, the water
5 does, at high levels, it does reach the same level as what
6 would be done with this proposal that they have in front
7 of us, right?
8 MS. MENNELLA: They'll be held higher for longer.
9 THE GOVERNOR: Longer.
10 MS. MENNELLA: Higher for longer, low -- they'll
11 never get as low as they naturally get.
12 THE GOVERNOR: But it's the length as relates to the
13 wetlands that would be the problem, right?
14 MS. MENNELLA: That's the problem.
15 THE GOVERNOR: Okay.
16 MS. MENNELLA: All right. So we've talked about
17 three undisputed facts. Why does that matter? It matters
18 because the Districts' regulatory rules require that
19 projects not adversely impact wetlands without mitigation
20 to offset these. There is no mitigation in this case.
21 There are two more key facts that I want you to understand
22 that are undisputed in the record. Reducing -- here is
23 one. This is verbatim. Reducing flows to the sinkhole
24 will result in higher flood levels in and around Orange
25 Lake. The Districts' rules, that you have to decide
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1 whether this denial meets those rules, requires that there
2 not be adverse water quantity impacts on offsite lands.
3 This is violated.
4 And the final key fact is in the record, verbatim,
5 the project as proposed would cause a violation of state
6 water quality standards. This is an outstanding Florida
7 water. Under the District's rules and also DEP's rules,
8 you cannot lower ambient water quality. This proposal
9 will cause a turbidity violation within the Orange Lake
10 system.
11 All right. Now, where we go from here is this
12 District has been working very well with Marion County on
13 many issues. Unfortunately, we're at odds here today.
14 What we have here is a project that is reminiscent of the
15 1950s in fact. And that is before we really understood
16 the ecological significance of the ups and downs of a
17 natural hydra period of a lake. These wetlands that are
18 going to be destroyed are critical for maintaining the
19 nature of that outstanding Florida water and the wetlands
20 and the fish and wildlife that are dependent. The
21 long-term health of the lake depends on that fluctuation.
22 The project really proposes to optimize the economic
23 viability of a small user group compared -- that's the
24 bass fisherman. And there is nothing wrong with seeking
25 to optimize these things. The problem here is that it
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1 does it at the expense of the ecological health and
2 long-term health of the lake. The District, because of
3 these problems, has been required to deny this. In
4 addition, this proposal is on sovereign submerged lands.
5 And, of course, the District has the obligation to process
6 and to review the sovereign submerged lands authorization
7 that came with this. That sovereign submerged land
8 authorization was also denied because this project in
9 balancing was determined not to be -- it was determined to
10 be contrary to the public interest. That has not been
11 appealed.
12 Under Florida Statute, those two authorizations are
13 done together; if one fails, the other must fail. That
14 one has not been appealed. That alone, would cause
15 failure. And would require, in my opinion, that you
16 affirm the denial of the permit. We ask you to do so.
17 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you. Any questions?
18 Okay. Do we have another speaker?
19 MS. TINKER: Yes, sir. We have three additional
20 speakers and I'll just call them all at the same time and
21 they can come up. Chris Byrd is here representing Alachua
22 County. Richard Hamann from the University of Florida.
23 James Higman with the Wildlife Federation as well as
24 Manley Fuller with the Wildlife Federation.
25 THE GOVERNOR: If you-all could be brief, we'd
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1 appreciate it.
2 MR. BYRD: Good morning, Governor and cabinet. My
3 name is Chris Byrd. I'm with the Alachua County and I'm
4 representing the county commission today. I won't go over
5 the points that have already been made but just to
6 reiterate that Alachua County is in support of the Water
7 Management District's decision on this. And just to
8 mention that the 1900 acres, almost 1900 acres of wetlands
9 that are in question are located within Alachua County.
10 So the impact there, if there was, would be in Alachua
11 County. The structure and the sink that we're talking
12 about is also located in Alachua County. So we obviously,
13 as being kind of upstream and where the flooding may
14 happen, we very much have an interest in this.
15 I wanted to point out the flood storage value of this
16 whole system and we've talked about how it goes up and
17 down. I can tell you from experience that during the
18 hurricane season we just had, if it wasn't for these
19 drainage sinks that we have in Alachua County, I-75 would
20 have been under water. We would have had a lot more
21 flooding than we had. We actually even with what was
22 going on, we had a fish camp in Alachua County upstream of
23 this system that did flood. And we are just very
24 concerned about not giving up this flood storage capacity
25 that's built into this system.
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1 So besides the environmental concerns and the
2 wetlands and the wildlife, we learned a reminder with the
3 hurricane season how valuable these drainage sinks are.
4 They're not like the sinkhole in Lake City that's
5 swallowing a house. These are part of the creek system
6 that runs in and if it wasn't for these sinks, the water
7 would have to go somewhere and it would go up. So we
8 appreciate you listening and understanding this but please
9 don't forget what we learned in the hurricanes.
10 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you.
11 MR. HAMANN: My name is Richard Hamann and I served
12 as chairman of the Orange Creek Basin Advisory Council
13 from 1994 to 2001 together with representatives from
14 Alachua and Marion County, Jerry Harris, James Higman,
15 Gary Appleson (phonetic) who are all here. It was a
16 diverse group. It was appointed by the governing board to
17 represent many interests from throughout the Orange Creek
18 Basin.
19 The impetus for establishing this council was
20 concerned about low water levels in Orange Lake but we
21 were charged with developing a water management plan for
22 the entire basin. There were many unanswered scientific
23 questions at that time so we established a scientific
24 advisory council. It included Dr. Canfield.
25 The reports of both councils are in the record and
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1 the reason that I'm here is to defend our hard work. We
2 asked the District commission numerous scientific studies.
3 The results are in the record and they clearly support the
4 recommendations of the advisory council and our scientific
5 advisory council not to attempt to manipulate water levels
6 on Orange Lake. On that particular issue, we were divided
7 but we voted 7-3 against doing what Marion County has
8 proposed. We concluded that it would be harmful to Orange
9 Lake which has been subject to extreme fluctuations for
10 thousands of years.
11 Twenty-nine soil borings were conducted at the
12 request of the District in that lake. Twenty-two of them
13 showed layers of charcoal anywhere from 1 to 8 feet deep
14 in the lake. This lake periodically dries up, that's the
15 normal condition of this lake. Stabilizing water levels
16 has been harmful everywhere it's been done in this state.
17 Look at the example of Lake Taho where stabilization of
18 water levels has resulted in accumulation of organic
19 sediments, vegetation that has to be periodically removed,
20 a great expense, only after great controversy over the
21 regulation schedule, the impacts on downstream water
22 supplies, flooding et cetera. If a new structure is
23 installed on Orange Lake, you're going to have the same
24 kinds of perpetual conflict over the regulation schedule.
25 Someone will be trying to change it. It will go back to
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1 the governing board. It will come back to FLAWAC again
2 and again and again.
3 One final point which is supported by the record. On
4 many other issues, we achieved consensus. We unanimously
5 recommended, for example, that the District dredge access
6 channels so that boats could get out onto the lake during
7 low water. Marion County and Jerry Harris, after the
8 council had expired, rejected even studying the
9 feasibility of that alternative. Orange Lake is in
10 wonderful condition today. The water is up, there are
11 lots of people fishing, there are lots of birds, lots of
12 wildlife. But it is in such good condition today because
13 of the natural drawdown that we experienced in recent
14 years. We have no business tampering with that system.
15 Thank you.
16 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, sir.
17 MR. HIGMAN: Good morning. My name is James Higman.
18 Recently I sent you-all letters talking about some of
19 these issues. But I'd just like to give you some personal
20 perspective. I'm here today representing thousands of
21 members of Florida Wildlife Federation, hunters, fishers,
22 other recreational users, everybody from canoes to
23 powerboaters. I grew up in south Florida and my dad was a
24 duck hunter, so I grew up duck hunting in the Everglades.
25 I learned about bass fishing from friends and did lots of
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1 bass fishing in south Florida when I was in high school.
2 When I came to the Gainesville area, Alachua County
3 in the early '70s, I learned about Orange Lake and again
4 duck hunted on that lake back in the '70s. It wasn't
5 until recently, after this most recent drawdown, that I
6 was able to get back out on the lake and find enough ducks
7 to go hunting. At the same time that I was out there duck
8 hunting, my Alachua County commission was dealing with an
9 air boat problem on Orange Lake. The froggers had gotten
10 such a great harvest after this long drawdown that people
11 were complaining about the number of air boats out there.
12 I personally remembered frogging in the Everglades
13 and enjoyed it myself but haven't done that for a while
14 and I understand the issues with air boats. I am here
15 because I'm a recreational user. I have friends that fish
16 on Orange Lake. There's never been any problems with the
17 speckled perch fishing out there from what I've understood
18 from them and they've been fishing over the last weekend
19 and catching more fish than they have for years.
20 The issue for me is the various different
21 recreational users that utilize that system and the
22 impacts that will occur to some of us duck hunters and
23 froggers if we don't have the natural fluctuations that
24 have occurred there for thousands of years. Please
25 support the District's proposal. Thank you very much.
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, sir.
2 MR. FULLER: Manly Fuller, Florida Wildlife
3 Federation. Both Richard and James are two of my -- on my
4 board of directors and we fully support what they've just
5 said. We think that spot dredging, use of Go-Devils,
6 which can traverse -- it can assist when the waters are
7 low in terms of fishing access. Air boats at certain
8 times, spot dredging and use of different craft, we think,
9 could help ameliorate the problems that the fish camp
10 owners have.
11 Personally, I've caught specs in the lake. When I
12 was a graduate student, went out and collected alligator
13 eggs. The system at Orange Lake is incredible. Sometimes
14 there is over a hundred alligator nests in those wetlands
15 around the edge of the lake. That's a result of those
16 natural fluctuations and all the productivity associated
17 with it. So we support the District and your staff's
18 recommendation. Thank you.
19 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you.
20 MS. TINKER: Again, Governor, Items 3 and 4 of the
21 staff's recommendation is to accept the review and affirm
22 the Water Management District's final order.
23 THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Can you just reiterate or
24 explain exactly what our responsibilities are here?
25 MS. TINKER: Yes, sir, I can. You are limited to the
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1 record below. The facts as outlined in the Water
2 Management District's final order cannot be overturned.
3 We are limited to those facts. We believe that the --
4 there are some regional issues that were raised by the
5 Petitioners. That's why we're recommending that you
6 accept review. However, we also believe that the Water
7 Management District took the appropriate action in denying
8 the applications.
9 THE GOVERNOR: Commissioner?
10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, this is kind of like
11 and I wouldn't say the first firing shot, but it's
12 certainly a firing shot in the debate that's going on in
13 this state since statehood and that is we tend to
14 manipulate because we think it's the right thing to do in
15 one part of the century and we find out maybe it wasn't
16 the right thing to do in another part of the century and
17 we're looking at all of these combined issues at a time
18 from when we had 500,000 people in Florida to a time that
19 we've got 17 million people in the state of Florida. And
20 the argument as it's coming up today and the scientific
21 information that's being given by the Water Management
22 District, DEP, and others, it shows us the debate that I
23 think will take place more and more as we go along on
24 these issues.
25 Now, quite frankly, my personal opinion from my
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1 family's history is in one case you want natural flows to
2 take place because that's the way it's been done for eons.
3 And if we do allow a change in Orange Lake, then they'll
4 be out here trying to put a bulldozer in this sinkhole in
5 Lake Jackson because that thing drains about every 20
6 years and it's been doing so since the Creek Indians were
7 living around here and they were the only ones here. But
8 my point is, at one time we want to manipulate for certain
9 reasons, the next time, we want natural flows.
10 Now, my personal opinion, based on my knowledge, is
11 we have artificially created high water through some of
12 our early Water Management District efforts a long time
13 ago for various reasons. And some of the lakes that we're
14 claiming as ordinary high water mark probably are only
15 ordinary high water mark after the change in the natural
16 flow took place. And so these arguments are going to come
17 up before us time and time again as to sovereign lands and
18 a number of these issues. But it's clear we've got to
19 make a stand here. Do we want natural flows and do we
20 want people to understand, You build here, you're building
21 in wetlands and on low ground. Or do we want to
22 artificially change them and let people build. And then
23 when we have a four-hurricane season we have flooded
24 homes.
25 So I guess this is one of the our toughest issues
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1 that we're going to have to take a look at. I think this
2 is just the first of many firing shots on this very issue
3 from lake to lake and from region to region.
4 THE GOVERNOR: Would you like to make a motion?
5 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I'd like to make a motion that
6 we accept the ruling of the Water Management District.
7 CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
8 THE GOVERNOR: There is a motion to affirm the
9 District's order and a second. Is that all you need from
10 us?
11 MS. TINKER: Yes, sir.
12 THE GOVERNOR: Any other discussion? Thank you. I
13 know she needs a vote. Any other discussion?
14 All in favor say aye.
15 (Aye.)
16 All opposed.
17 (No response.)
18 The motion passes to affirm unanimously. Thank you
19 all very much for coming.
20 Yes, sir.
21 MR. HARRIS: Quick question for you.
22 THE GOVERNOR: Yes.
23 MR. HARRIS: I've been trying for 12 years to find
24 out who's responsible for keeping the lake healthy.
25 THE GOVERNOR: For keeping the lake up?
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1 MR. HARRIS: Keeping it healthy. Doing the things
2 Florida Statutes require.
3 THE GOVERNOR: Why don't you just -- if we can keep
4 going here, you can ask Teresa Tinker that and the
5 colleagues from --
6 MR. HARRIS: They'll give me an answer on that?
7 THE GOVERNOR: I hope so. If they don't, come on
8 back in here.
9 MR. HARRIS: Thank you.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Agriculture and Consumer Services.
2 MR. WILHELM: Good morning.
3 THE GOVERNOR: Good morning.
4 MR. WILHELM: Item No. 1 is a request to issue a
5 1-acre lime rock lease 8 miles south of Panacea in
6 Franklin County.
7 GENERAL CRIST: Motion on one.
8 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
9 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
10 Without objection, Item 1 passes.
11 Item 2.
12 MR. WILHELM: Item 2 is a request that we received
13 from an individual who would like to have five 2-acre
14 leases down in Charlotte Harbour and at the same time, he
15 presently has five 2-acre leases. He wants to give those
16 up and he would like to have five new 2-acre leases. The
17 reason why he's wanting to give them up is that he's
18 having a natural resource move into his lease area which
19 the lease prohibits him to raise clams in an area where
20 natural resources are moving into and so he wants to get
21 away from that, into a sandy bottom.
22 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
23 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
24 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
25 Without objection, the item passes. Thank you.
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1 CFO GALLAGHER: We have 3.
2 THE GOVERNOR: Keep going. Excuse me.
3 MR. WILHELM: Item No. 3 is a request to convert a
4 commercial 40-slip dock lease to an aquaculture dock lease
5 that would only permit 10 boat slips.
6 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
8 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
9 Without objection, the item passes.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Board of Trustees.
2 MS. CASTILLE: Good morning, Governor, members of the
3 cabinet. Item 1 is a Board of Trustees' U.S. Department
4 of Agriculture Forest Service Exchange Agreement and
5 determination and a request to waive statutory
6 requirements. What we're asking for you today to consider
7 is a determination that two parcels of state-owned land
8 totaling 18,617.62 acres are no longer needed for State
9 conservation purposes.
10 Two, to determine that the conveyance provides a
11 greater benefit to the public. Three, approve an exchange
12 agreement as amended under the Board of Trustees which
13 would convey land to the Department of Agriculture for
14 ownership of -- in exchange for ownership and mineral
15 interests under state-owned conservation land in Citrus,
16 Hernando, Okaloosa, Pasco, Santa Rosa and Sumter Counties
17 totaling 292,856 acres. And fee simple ownership to
18 conservation land in Franklin, Lake, and Okaloosa Counties
19 totaling 4559.6 acres and permission to convey public
20 roads received in the exchange to the State Department of
21 Transportation or County government as appropriate. And
22 lastly to waive the statutory requirement for no less than
23 a special warranty deed and accept quitclaim deeds and
24 patents from the U.S. government.
25 CFO GALLAGHER: You know, Governor -- how long have
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1 you been working on this?
2 MS. CASTILLE: I believe when I was working for you,
3 sir, which would have been about 15 years ago. And if you
4 recall, this is -- part of this is the mineral rights
5 where Senator Argenziano was propelled into public service
6 as her position as president of the Withlachoochee area
7 residents who were opposed to the mining of the
8 Withlachoochee state forest. Which, when the blasts would
9 go off, the pictures would fall off the walls and windows
10 would crack in people's houses in that area.
11 CFO GALLAGHER: Well, congratulations on getting it
12 down --
13 (Laughter.)
14 CFO GALLAGHER: -- to an actual piece of paper
15 hopefully to get signed.
16 Motion on 1.
17 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
18 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. Any
19 other discussion?
20 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, if I could.
21 THE GOVERNOR: Yes, you can.
22 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: This has taken quite a long
23 time to work out these issues and everybody has worked
24 hard on them and we've been back and forth in our Division
25 of Forestry and the Department of Agriculture and Consumer
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1 Services worked along with DEP and the U.S. Forest
2 Service. And Chris Zajacek who -- and with the U.S.
3 Forest Service employee worked very hard on this issue.
4 Unfortunately, she passed away and is no longer here to
5 see this action take place. But the act, congressional
6 act, was created in her name. And I think it was very
7 fitting that that happened after all these years and all
8 this work that we're able to make this move for the good
9 of, I think, both the U.S. and state forest as well as the
10 mining issue on state land. So I applaud you-all for
11 working on this and getting it worked out.
12 MS. CASTILLE: Thank you, sir.
13 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I move that we adopt the
14 motion.
15 CFO GALLAGHER: I'll second his --
16 THE GOVERNOR: There is a motion and a second.
17 Without objection, the item passes. Thank you.
18 Item 2.
19 MS. CASTILLE: Item 2, the Lambert option agreement
20 on the St. Johns River Blueway Florida Forever Project.
21 Consideration of this item is an option agreement to
22 acquire 731.30 acres and designation of the St. Johns
23 River Water Management District as the managing agency.
24 And, thirdly, confirmation of the management policy
25 statement.
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1 CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
2 GENERAL CRIST: Second.
3 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
4 Without objection the item passes.
5 Item 3.
6 MS. CASTILLE: Item 3 is the Boomer option agreement
7 on Estero Bay Florida Forever Project. This is a
8 consideration of an option agreement to acquire
9 104.09 acres within Estero Bay Florida Forever Project.
10 Governor, the total purchase price is $14.5 million
11 which is 65 percent of the appraised value. The State is
12 sharing this purchase with Lee County under the
13 conservation 20/20 Land Program. We have the city -- the
14 mayor of the City of Fort Myers here and also Lee County
15 commission chairman, Mr. Douglas St. Cerny. The appraised
16 value on this property is both for commercial purposes.
17 The comparables are about $8.50 per square feet for the
18 commercial parcels. And for the subdivision parcels, it's
19 250,000 per acre. The -- in this area, there is high
20 levels of development; within about 150 square miles of
21 this area is 5 million of the State's population. That
22 includes Tampa, Orlando --
23 THE GOVERNOR: Oh, come on, that's a stretch.
24 MS. CASTILLE: It's accurate.
25 THE GOVERNOR: Oh, but it doesn't have anything to do
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1 with the value of the property that it's within 5 million
2 if you go up to Tampa. You could say that about
3 property -- never mind. You were doing all right. Don't
4 oversell.
5 (Laughter.)
6 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: You sure slowed her down.
7 THE GOVERNOR: Come on. This is Fort Myers. It's
8 not Tampa. Got enough valuable property in Fort Myers to
9 sell, to sell us on.
10 MS. CASTILLE: This is quite close to the coast.
11 THE GOVERNOR: There you go.
12 (Laughter.)
13 You're back on track. Anything else you'd like to
14 tell us about it? It's a beautiful house.
15 MS. CASTILLE: The house is actually a life estate
16 that Mrs. Boomer will continue to live in. And she's also
17 invited you-all to come and have lemonade on her porch
18 with her.
19 THE GOVERNOR: Oh, that's nice. I assume that
20 means -- assuming we do it.
21 (Laughter.)
22 MS. CASTILLE: Mrs. Boomer and her family wanted
23 nothing more than to have this property in State
24 ownership. They have been quite frequently offered money
25 for this property for development and they really want to
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1 keep it in public ownership.
2 THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Anybody else like to speak? We
3 have guests from afar?
4 MS. CASTILLE: Mayor? Mayor Jim Humphrey.
5 MAYOR HUMPHREY: Good morning, Governor and members
6 of the cabinet. I am Mayor Jim Humphrey. But I'm
7 actually here because this property is in the
8 unincorporated area of Lee County, south Lee County. I'm
9 here representing the family, the Boomers that have owned
10 this property, as you can see from the record, since 1896.
11 And with what's already been said, I could just really
12 answer any questions that you have and just say to you
13 that this is such a valuable parcel because over a half a
14 mile on the Estero River going into the aquatic bay and
15 would ask that you please support the recommendations and
16 support also the county commission who unanimously
17 approved paying half of it. So I stand to answer any
18 questions. Also, the commission chairman, Doug St. Cerny,
19 is here.
20 THE GOVERNOR: Mayor, the treasurer has a jeopardy
21 question for you.
22 MAYOR HUMPHREY: Yes, sir.
23 CFO GALLAGHER: One of the interesting things we
24 usually get a report on is what the owners paid for these
25 properties. And being's it's been owned for a hundred
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1 years I was wondering was it less than $100 or how much
2 did they pay?
3 MAYOR HUMPHREY: Yes, it was a very small amount when
4 they came in 1896 as a member of the Koreshan settlement.
5 This family was one of the few that actually had kids and
6 they donated quite a bit of the property to the Koreshans
7 as it moved along. But, yes, it was bought at a very
8 insignificant price back at that time.
9 CFO GALLAGHER: Do you have any idea what it was?
10 MAYOR HUMPHREY: No, sir, I do not.
11 CFO GALLAGHER: Okay. Thank you.
12 THE GOVERNOR: Chairman, would you like to say
13 something?
14 MR. ST. CERNY: Thank you, Governor Bush and cabinet
15 members. I'll be brief. Tuesday, this past, my board
16 reconfirmed previous votes to support the relationship in
17 this agreement going forward with the State of Florida.
18 And we, throughout the time that I've been on the board
19 have had a number of agreements with the state where we
20 have partnered together to do good things for the citizens
21 of Florida and they've always worked very well.
22 THE GOVERNOR: Working on one right now.
23 MR. ST. CERNY: Yes, sir, I am. And Lee County,
24 about eight years ago, had the opportunity to go to its
25 electorate and offered them a referendum on whether they'd
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1 be interested in taxing themselves to buy environmentally
2 sensitive lands that passed by 64 percent. These are the
3 funds that Lee County would be using for this acquisition
4 and partnership. Not too often do we spend our money and
5 then turn over the management to another entity. But in
6 this case, since it's the State of Florida, we would do
7 that with an enormous amount of pride.
8 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, sir.
9 MR. ST. CERNY: And we would look forward to you
10 looking on this very favorably. It's been a great
11 partnership and it's working very well. And if we don't
12 do it today, it's not going to get done. Because when you
13 look at the growth of an area that's probably in one of
14 the fastest growing areas in the United States, and this
15 is right between Collier and Lee County where they come
16 together. So we've got an opportunity to do something
17 really good for generations to come. Thank you very much
18 for your time.
19 THE GOVERNOR: So you agree with my point that
20 Secretary Castille didn't have to go all the way up to
21 Tampa to talk about how valuable property is?
22 MR. ST. CERNY: I agree with you.
23 CFO GALLAGHER: Naples is a little closer.
24 THE GOVERNOR: Yeah, you could go to Naples.
25 MR. ST. CERNY: Naples, Fort Myers is a pretty good
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1 area. We're pretty proud of it. Thank you very much.
2 THE GOVERNOR: Any questions?
3 CFO GALLAGHER: Governor, let me just mention. This
4 Boomer family really is interesting because Berthaldine
5 Boomer who lived at the home site until her death in '35
6 and the younger Lucius, her husband was named Lucius,
7 later became a successful businessman and he was famous
8 because he spent a tenure as president of the
9 Waldof-Astoria Hotel in New York. And his son, George
10 Boomer, lived at the home site until his death in 1999.
11 So it's quite a historic family and the caretaker house,
12 known as the Garcia house, has been donated to the Estero
13 Historical Society and is scheduled to be moved to the
14 Estero Community Park sometime during 2005. So
15 congratulations on your good work, Colleen.
16 THE GOVERNOR: Let's have a vote then. Is there a
17 motion?
18 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Motion on 3.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
20 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second on
21 Item 3. Without objection, the item passes. Thank
22 you-all very much for being here.
23 Item 4.
24 MS. CASTILLE: Item 4 is a request to modify a deed
25 restriction for the Palm Beach County School Board. The
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1 Palm Beach County School Board was given land that
2 included a restriction that required that the property be
3 used for public purposes including public health, public
4 education and other community purposes. There is a
5 proposal for the property to be used as the McCurdy Senior
6 Housing Corporation through -- for an assisted living
7 facility. For two reasons, the request is to remove this
8 restriction. One would be that there be any conflict
9 between public health and the assisted living facility.
10 And, two, the funders of the senior health facility
11 generally require us to remove this restriction. We've
12 done it on occasion.
13 THE GOVERNOR: And this is -- when you say "Palm
14 Beach County", what part of Palm Beach County is it,
15 Secretary?
16 MS. CASTILLE: It's in Belle Glade.
17 CFO GALLAGHER: Way west.
18 Motion on 4.
19 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
20 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
21 Without objection, the item passes.
22 MS. CASTILLE: Item 5 is a DMS analysis of office
23 space efficiency on five properties here in Leon County
24 and DEP's recommendation for initiation of disposition.
25 Secretary Tom Lewis is here. Governor, members of the
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1 cabinet, as you know, Secretary Lewis was appointed
2 two-and-a-half weeks ago, I believe, sir? And would like
3 to come up and bring this proposal and we will do it
4 together.
5 THE GOVERNOR: Can you explain just exactly what
6 we're here to do today?
7 MS. CASTILLE: Yes, sir. We have surplus
8 opportunities here. Secretary Simon, prior to Tom Lewis'
9 appointment has been in the process of reviewing state
10 agency allocation needs, floor space allocation needs.
11 And by an effort to make our space more efficient, we
12 have -- each of the agencies has been entering into a
13 process by which they've been reconfiguring floor space
14 for employees and making it more efficient and more
15 consolidated for each of the agencies. What we're here
16 today to do is to take properties that will soon be vacant
17 and make a determination as to what our next step is with
18 those properties.
19 THE GOVERNOR: Well, we're not here to approve a
20 particular deal though. We're here to approve
21 conceptually going out into the marketplace and
22 determining what possible deals there might be.
23 MS. CASTILLE: Yes, sir.
24 THE GOVERNOR: Is that correct?
25 MS. CASTILLE: That's correct.
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1 CFO GALLAGHER: Let me also mention while we're doing
2 this is that there seems to be a move afoot to change the
3 decision-making on what's surplus and what's not from the
4 Governor and cabinet to a State agency. And I just for
5 one want to tell you I don't think that's correct. I
6 think the Constitution is very clear that it takes three
7 votes of this cabinet to surplus and sell, primarily to
8 sell.
9 THE GOVERNOR: Sell.
10 CFO GALLAGHER: I believe that that also should mean
11 that the cabinet should make the decision on surplus. And
12 if it's not us making the decision, then I'm going to
13 probably be against the sale. So I just want to let
14 everybody know where I come from on that. I think they go
15 together and just wanted to publicly say what I think.
16 MS. CASTILLE: Treasurer, I believe you'll find that
17 we are consistent with that position as well. Let me go
18 ahead and turn it over to Mr. Lewis to begin.
19 MR. LEWIS: Governor, members of the cabinet, good
20 morning. I'm new so I don't get credit for anything. I
21 get blamed for everything.
22 THE GOVERNOR: Actually, you have a brief little
23 window of opportunity where the opposite is the case.
24 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Welcome to our world.
25 MR. LEWIS: Thank you for the opportunity to come
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1 before you and basically update work on our workplace
2 management initiative. Actually, in reading some of the
3 history of it goes back to about 1988 when the cabinet
4 first looked at a study that was called location study for
5 state agencies in Leon County and it was the thing that
6 started talking about government centers. And, actually,
7 I think, the capital office complex came as a result of
8 that.
9 We were before you, I believe, in November to
10 introduce this initiative. Primary goals of this
11 initiative are to improve office quality space for State
12 workers, improve the utilization of that space, and to
13 reduce costs, reduce operating costs. Today we're going
14 to provide you some outcomes of the work that we've done
15 and specifically looking at Leon County. Treasurer
16 Gallagher, to your point, we lease these spaces from the
17 Board of Trustees. We lease about 188 properties
18 throughout the state that we then provide office space,
19 warehouse space. We're sort of a custodian of these
20 spaces for the Board of Trustees. So I join Secretary
21 Castille in agreeing with you.
22 This has been a significant undertaking so we've
23 started focusing on Tallahassee. About 40 percent of our
24 pool is located here in Tallahassee. And one of the
25 things we learned as we started to look at this was that
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1 if you looked at the trends of State -- numbers of State
2 employees, that percentage, that number was declining. If
3 you looked at the percentage of office space that we had,
4 that number was increasing. So it was a little bit of an
5 inconsistency in what one would expect.
6 We've looked at a three-pronged approach in what
7 we've done. And we're going to actually focus on the
8 third of those prongs. One is trying to maximize and
9 improve upon our private sector leases, get the most we
10 can for the dollars we have. Reconfiguration of our
11 space, looking at private industry and what their square
12 feet per person was compared to what we were. We found
13 some differences that needed to be addressed. And then
14 today, specifically the third prong, the maximization of
15 our assets.
16 And I commend you for doing this. This is what smart
17 private industry does. My former life, Disney on about a
18 three-year cycle does this exact same thing and looks at
19 it continuously about every three years, makes a very
20 focused effort on all of our assets to see what we need to
21 be doing with them. The focus on the five parcels today
22 which basically, I think, includes seven buildings, these
23 are older, low-quality properties. Some are vacant. Some
24 have been vacant for a long time. One is a former gas
25 station. They're not meeting the needs of our tenant
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1 agencies. There is a lot of -- and General Crist will
2 relate to this. There's a lot of DBPR employees that are
3 in a couple of these buildings. I've been through these
4 buildings. We should not have people working in these
5 types of buildings.
6 Secretary Carr wants to consolidate at Northwood, her
7 department. And actually her coming to us was part of
8 what sparked, I think, more attention to this. So that
9 she's going to try to regroup and bring those to
10 Northwood. So some of the buildings that are occupied
11 now, Warren and Johns have some DBPR people in them,
12 they're going to be vacant as well.
13 I'd like to ask Cindy Marsiglio to come forward and
14 sort of take you through each quickly, each of the five
15 parcels that we're recommending be taken off our inventory
16 today. And that basically is our request to you that they
17 be removed from our pool inventory because they no longer
18 really fit appropriately to be there.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: Let me ask you a question. These
20 properties were bought the way they are. I mean, we
21 bought an old gas station. Whatever we use it for, we use
22 it for but that's what we bought. I'd like to have
23 somebody get for me the history of when we bought them and
24 for how much and why. I mean, maybe we've changed our
25 whole goals of what we're doing and why we're doing it and
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1 everything else. But I'd like to have the history of each
2 one of these properties, when we bought it and why we
3 bought it. There was a reason. We didn't just go out and
4 say, Hey, anybody got any land? So there was a reason it
5 was bought. We then made a deal with St. Joe for
6 Southwood where we committed to build X number of square
7 feet. They gave us the land to do that. Obviously it was
8 great for them because they got to start Southwood and
9 build Southwood.
10 We have a commitment there. We've built X number of
11 square feet. I don't know what it is. My understanding
12 we probably have another 80,000 square feet we're supposed
13 to build. I'd like to know what the status is on that.
14 Are we going to build it or aren't we and who's going to
15 move in there. So this is a whole encompassed thing that
16 I'd like a little past history. I know some of it because
17 I was sitting there for some of it, and some future so I
18 can get an idea why do we buy these, what's the reason. I
19 mean, we've had discussions here so many times of this
20 state and this board historically selling land and buying
21 it back. And now we're buying land and selling it back.
22 And, you know, I don't want to be sitting around here or
23 God bless somebody long after me buying this stuff back
24 again because we decided to sell it. So somehow or
25 another I want to be real comfortable, at least when I
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1 vote, that it makes sense on what we're doing, some
2 history of this and why we bought it in the first place.
3 MR. LEWIS: Treasurer Gallagher, good points and we
4 can absolutely do that. My little bit of historical
5 memory is that some of these purchases were made back when
6 there was a threat to move the capitol out of Tallahassee.
7 And, therefore, that became a strategy to maximize the
8 assets that were owned particularly in the downtown
9 capitol complex. But we'll go back and we'll provide you
10 that history. I think we'll find the timing of that and
11 that may have been part of the rationale for doing it.
12 CFO GALLAGHER: I think building this 50 some million
13 dollar building with a $25 million appropriation back in
14 the late '60s, there's a little plaque right by the
15 elevators that explains that if anybody would like to go
16 see it, where they dedicated to --
17 THE GOVERNOR: It's one floor up, isn't it?
18 CFO GALLAGHER: Plaza level where they sort of
19 dedicated to Senator Weisenborn from Miami who was trying
20 to move the capitol to Orlando and because of that, this
21 building got built. It was the porkchoppers' way of
22 sending a message like, It ain't moving. Maybe they
23 bought other land too. I don't know --
24 MR. LEWIS: We'll get you the history on those,
25 absolutely. On your second point, I can tell you just in
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1 the short time I've been here, the asset that we have at
2 the capital complex at Southwood is certainly part of my
3 thought process. And even in looking at coming with this
4 recommendation you are correct, we have a parcel out there
5 with two triggers on it, as a matter of fact. 80,000 --
6 to start development of 80,000 square feet on that parcel
7 by '08 and to start development of 80,000 square feet on
8 that parcel by '10. And if we don't make one of those
9 triggers, the '08 one, there's a 14-acre parcel that
10 reverts. And if we don't make the '10 one, there is about
11 a 43-acre parcel that reverts.
12 So there's almost 59, 60 acres of developable land
13 out there that's a real asset and we're just in the midst
14 of looking at the broader plan and picture that you're
15 talking about as to when we're going to -- I want to try
16 to make those triggers if it makes sense. And I can't
17 tell you today whether it does or not.
18 CFO GALLAGHER: Well, that, to me, is a very integral
19 part of my decision on whether we sell downtown property,
20 is what happens out there at Southwood. Because if all of
21 a sudden we're going to sell downtown and we're going to
22 let everything revert there, I'm going to wonder what in
23 the world people were planning for because someday down
24 the road, it might be 100 years from now, there may be a
25 need and we let it all go and buy it back for millions of
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1 dollars instead of the hundreds of thousands we sell it
2 for.
3 MR. LEWIS: Or, you know, it may end up being a smart
4 thing to dispose of 5 or 6 acres downtown in order to
5 retain the use of 49 acres that will build huge amounts a
6 square foot in a government center location. But you make
7 a good point and we will definitely address that.
8 Last comment before Cindy comes, we've worked closely
9 with the City because a couple of these parcels are part
10 of the Gaines Street revitalization effort that the City,
11 Mayor Marks is here, one of our county commissioners is
12 here. And at some point, Governor, they might want to
13 make some remarks.
14 THE GOVERNOR: Absolutely.
15 MR. LEWIS: So, if I could have Cindy quickly take
16 you through just a quick preview of the parcels.
17 MS. MARSIGLIO: Hello. We're just going to -- I
18 think Secretary Lewis hit on a lot of the points that are
19 in the first handful of slides that are in the
20 presentation. So perhaps I'll just skip straight to the
21 photograph slides of the five parcels that we were
22 discussing today. It had some of the building information
23 on each of those as far as age of the building, use of the
24 building.
25 Like Secretary Lewis mentioned, each of these
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1 facilities are either vacant today or will be becoming
2 vacant in the next six or nine months and that's to meet
3 those tenant agencies' needs that are in those buildings.
4 We anticipate having difficulty leasing them once those
5 tenants move out because of the quality of the space.
6 There's not a whole lot of other agencies in line wanting
7 to come into some of these buildings when we have some
8 higher quality space open. And the reason that they're
9 grouped together is because they sit on the same block
10 there.
11 And the first two are Johns and Clemmons. You see
12 that the Johns Building is a 41-year-old building. And
13 the Clemmons Building is 54 years old. I believe that
14 both the Johns and Clemmons Building were conveyed to the
15 state around 1963 and we'll build some of that history and
16 provide you that. But just to give you what I know of
17 them today. The Johns Building is the location of
18 Department of Business and Professional Regulation and
19 Clemmons is vacant.
20 THE GOVERNOR: Yes, Commissioner.
21 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Where the Chevron station, the
22 old station is, is that the area that was designated the
23 brown field back four or five years ago?
24 THE GOVERNOR: No.
25 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: It's not a brown field area?
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Are you talking about the Cascade --
2 CFO GALLAGHER: Behind the Larson Building. Up the
3 street from -- behind Firestone.
4 THE GOVERNOR: The mayor is nodding his head in the
5 negative. So he's the living expert in this room on brown
6 fields in this city, I'm sure.
7 MS. CASTILLE: We do have actually a brown field
8 designation on the Gaines Street corridor including that
9 location.
10 CFO GALLAGHER: Both sides?
11 MS. CASTILLE: It's on both sides of the street.
12 CFO GALLAGHER: I thought it was.
13 THE GOVERNOR: Well, then the living expert was
14 incorrect.
15 (Laughter.)
16 Maybe he was going like this (indicating) and I just
17 missed it.
18 MS. MARSIGLIO: That is that gas station that tanks
19 on that facility have been removed. We used some --
20 maintenance crews is what Department of Management
21 Services had in that building. We've moved them to a
22 central warehouse, paying electricians those types of
23 services. And 319 West Madison Street, that is currently
24 vacated. We've taken the same thing, seven DMS grounds
25 crew type employees out of that building. That's an old
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1 hotel.
2 And the last -- Winchester, which is another old
3 motel and the grounds building is because where DMS keeps
4 our grounds crew. Doesn't really even have a name. This
5 is the spreadsheet that goes through some of the data
6 pieces that we used to analyze the building, the quality,
7 the use. And really just get to the results, for DBPR
8 essentially by moving out to Northwood and centrally
9 locating, we're meeting their request for operational
10 efficiency centrally locating them. They're using a
11 significantly reduced amount of space as a result of that
12 consolidation. It's just more efficient. It's modern.
13 It's going from C and D space for those employees up to B
14 class out there.
15 This represents a very small percent of that pool
16 that you assigned to us to operate as office space. So
17 any action that you choose to take on the future in it
18 allows us to retain the bond requirements and the
19 restrictions that exist there in the pool and removes
20 quite an extensive list of pending deficiencies and fixed
21 capital operations on these buildings, 1.7 million in just
22 keeping the doors looked and the roofs on, if you will.
23 Local community, which I think we can talk about in
24 just a minute and then some state benefit to having
25 potential revenue generated. There are some restrictions
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1 on the revenue because it's a part of the Florida
2 facilities pool. So it would be fixed capital outlay type
3 of purposes if you were to ever get to that point. And
4 then if you have any questions. I guess maybe, Colleen,
5 we can talk about anything else. That's just ours.
6 THE GOVERNOR: Perhaps we should have the
7 commissioner and the mayor speak if they would like to.
8 MS. CASTILLE: And Representative Loranne Ausley is
9 here as well.
10 THE GOVERNOR: I don't see her.
11 MAYOR MARKS: Good morning, Governor, cabinet
12 members. I don't know if Lorrane is here. Representative
13 Lorrane Ausley. Come here. This is important. First of
14 all, obviously Secretary Castille knows a little bit more
15 about brown fields than I do.
16 (Laughter.)
17 THE GOVERNOR: Apparently.
18 MAYOR MARKS: And she's absolutely correct about
19 that. But I do appreciate this opportunity to address you
20 today regarding the disposition of selected state land
21 properties in downtown Tallahassee. First, let me say
22 this. We appreciate being included in the development of
23 the strategy putting these underutilized State assets into
24 more productive use. On this issue I'm addressing you not
25 only as the mayor of the City of Tallahassee -- and I want
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1 to make this very, very clear to you this morning -- but
2 also as a member of a public private partnership that has
3 been formed to present a unified community vision for the
4 integration of these properties back into private as well
5 as maybe possibly public use.
6 Now, included in the packet that you were distributed
7 is an agreement, a very important agreement, executed by
8 Leon County, represented by Commissioner DePuy here today,
9 the City of Tallahassee, the Leon County School District.
10 We have a representative from the school district here,
11 Florida State University, Florida A & M University, and
12 Tallahassee Community College. This was done all in the
13 auspices of the Economic Development Council.
14 That agreement states that all the signatories have
15 to join together to endorse a unified plan for the
16 inclusion of these properties into the strategy for the
17 revitalization -- and I want to emphasize that too -- for
18 the revitalization of our downtown area. As a body, I'm
19 sure you're familiar with the complexities of
20 intergovernmental cooperation. I'm sure that you can
21 appreciate how significant an achievement this particular
22 agreement represents when we can get all of these
23 individuals working together, notwithstanding what you may
24 have heard on the news lately with regards to a number of
25 issues. We are here unified. We are here together with
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1 regards to this particular project. This agreement
2 signifies a consensus amongst the community's leadership,
3 that these properties will play a critical role in the
4 growth and development of our downtown area with
5 particular emphasis on the Gaines Street corridor.
6 And I think if you look -- I don't know if you have a
7 map. We have a map and it shows with particular emphasis
8 on the Gaines Street corridor and the revitalization
9 efforts that the community, this community, is trying to
10 achieve with regards to Gaines Street and with regards to
11 Tallahassee. We appreciate, quite frankly, this effort on
12 behalf -- by the State government for the disposition of
13 these particular properties because it's going to really,
14 really mean a lot to us in terms of what we want to do
15 with the City of Tallahassee.
16 I believe we have an opportunity to work together for
17 the betterment of this community. While you're all State
18 officials, most of you and all of you are also Tallahassee
19 and Leon County residents and that's important. And I
20 know that I've had interactions on an individual basis
21 with each one of you in the City of Tallahassee and I know
22 you care about this community as much as anybody here.
23 And the recent agreement by the State and City on Capital
24 Cascades Park is an example of how local government and
25 state government can work together and what we can do for
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1 the betterment of this community and frankly for the
2 betterment of the entire state of Florida because this is
3 the capital of our state obviously and we have an
4 opportunity to build on that today with this and that's
5 why we're asking you to obviously consider us when you're
6 disposing of these lands.
7 Now that concludes my general remarks. But if there
8 are some technical questions, I know the time is short,
9 but if there are some technical questions or some detail
10 questions with regards to our concept of what we're doing,
11 I have my economic development individual here today to
12 answer those detailed questions. We really appreciate
13 you-all's consideration with regards to this matter.
14 Thank you, Governor. Thank you, members of the cabinet.
15 And if you have those questions, we stand here ready to
16 answer them.
17 THE GOVERNOR: Any questions?
18 CFO GALLAGHER: Yeah, I guess -- I read this
19 agreement in principle that you-all made with each other.
20 You're probably wanting to pay fair market value for these
21 properties, right?
22 MAYOR MARKS: Yes.
23 CFO GALLAGHER: Good answer.
24 MS. CASTILLE: Commissioner DePuy.
25 THE GOVERNOR: Very good answer.
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1 Commissioner, how are you doing, sir?
2 COMMISSIONER DePUY: I'm fine, Governor. How are you
3 this morning? Fellow cabinet members, I will be very
4 brief because I know today a classic example of less is
5 more. I just wanted to echo the mayor's comments about
6 the City and the County and all the other stakeholders in
7 Leon County that have joined together. There is no hidden
8 agenda here. The bottom line at the end of the day is
9 nonrevenue-producing properties that are exempted because
10 of their status as state property will become either
11 residences or commercial or a mixed use. And other than
12 possibly the Bloxham Building which used to be a school
13 that may revert to, in some future phase of this plan, the
14 County and the City have no plans of using these for
15 public sector but for private sector to produce some much
16 needed ad valorem property taxes into Leon County and the
17 City of Tallahassee.
18 And it's quoted in the newspaper today, it's all
19 about the 18-hour downtown that we're trying to
20 reestablish and this would go a large, large and a long
21 way to getting that done. And Commissioner or Secretary
22 or CFO Mr. Gallagher, in answer to your question, sir,
23 there is a mechanism in place, the downtown tax, the CRA
24 we call it, that the City of Tallahassee and Leon County
25 have partnered on. It is a revenue source to make us to
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1 able to be competitively bid for a fair market value for
2 these properties should you determine, sir, they become
3 available to the local government. We stand ready to
4 negotiate with your staffs. And thank you-all and please
5 take this opportunity to help us out.
6 Yes, sir, Governor?
7 THE GOVERNOR: Commissioner?
8 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I guess since Commissioner
9 DePuy is at the podium, does this mean now that you'll get
10 off my back about the Mayo Building if we turn these
11 properties loose?
12 (Laughter.)
13 COMMISSIONER DePUY: Commissioner Bronson, I've
14 obviously never had a chance to talk to you about that
15 before. Of course I have. This is an entirely separate
16 deal. Yes, sir. If we're willing to do something here,
17 the Mayo Building can stay yours forever, sir. Thank you.
18 And if you have any potholes in your neighborhood, I'll be
19 glad to come out there and help you out.
20 THE GOVERNOR: He'll even come cut your grass for
21 you. Won't you?
22 COMMISSIONER DePUY: Yes, sir, Governor, whatever it
23 takes.
24 CFO GALLAGHER: He doesn't want to cut his grass in
25 Madison County, I'll tell you that. He'll be there for a
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1 couple weeks.
2 THE GOVERNOR: Anyone else like to speak?
3 Representative?
4 REPRESENTATIVE AUSLEY: Thank you, Governor. Very
5 quickly. I really want to address Treasurer Gallagher's
6 question because it was reported in the paper that I have
7 a bill that would allow this disposition or at some point
8 to be done at less than fair market value. The only
9 reason that's there is as a placeholder if at some point
10 we got to the point that you needed a tool and said, The
11 statutes don't allow us to do that. I am not asking, we
12 are not asking, no one here is asking for anything more or
13 less than what the statute allows which is fair market
14 value and I think that's been made very clear by all the
15 parties here.
16 I think the most important issue here is that we do
17 have City and County, FSU, FAMU, TCC all together. And
18 hopefully this is the beginning of a beautiful thing and I
19 think, as a member of the delegation, we've been working
20 very closely with them, with both of the agencies involved
21 and look forward to working with the trustees as we move
22 forward on this really critical project for downtown.
23 Thank you.
24 CFO GALLAGHER: You know, you could amend that bill
25 to require the Mayo Building go on the block too.
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1 (Laughter.)
2 MAYOR MARKS: No, she will not.
3 (Laughter.)
4 REPRESENTATIVE AUSLEY: Thank you.
5 MS. CASTILLE: Governor, members of the cabinet. May
6 I just give you a few citations on the statute that gives
7 us the direction as to how we should proceed with these
8 properties and then ask for some direction from you. The
9 statute specifically, 253.111 requires the Board of
10 Trustees to offer the property to the County first for
11 appraised value. Section -- the next section requires
12 noticing to the local governments and exchanges are an
13 exception to the above requirements and are negotiated for
14 best value.
15 Then the next section requires noticing for each
16 owner of land lying within 500 feet if the subject parcel
17 is over 5 acres. What we're recommending you today is to
18 initiate a process that would determine the best way to
19 market these first two -- these first two parcels, the
20 Chevron parcel and the Johns parcel.
21 THE GOVERNOR: Say that again, the last part. The
22 Treasurer was whispering in my ear.
23 MS. CASTILLE: We're asking you to direct us to
24 initiate a process which would allow us to sell the blocks
25 containing the Chevron and Johns Building. What we would
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1 do is we would go into the marketing of it, the actual
2 sale vote will be when we come back to you with the
3 additional information that Treasurer Gallagher requested
4 and more detailed information on the value of those
5 properties.
6 CFO GALLAGHER: Have these properties been appraised
7 yet?
8 MR. LEWIS: We did get appraisals on them. Cindy,
9 you can correct me. My understanding is the highest and
10 best use was demolition in those appraisals.
11 CFO GALLAGHER: I'm sure of that. But the value is
12 in the land and do we have a current appraisal of the
13 land?
14 MR. LEWIS: We do have. Yes, sir.
15 MS. CASTILLE: Yes, sir.
16 CFO GALLAGHER: Based on what the highest and best
17 use of the land is is what the appraisal should be.
18 MR. LEWIS: Right. And that's the way it was done.
19 CFO GALLAGHER: I'd like if somebody could come talk
20 to me about that, that would be good.
21 MR. LEWIS: We're also asking that you take this off
22 of our pool inventory too. So it's kind of a two-fold
23 request. The request from us is to remove it from our
24 inventory.
25 CFO GALLAGHER: Well, somebody's got to take care of
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1 it until something happens to it because you've got
2 liability problems and everything else. Keep it locked
3 and everything else.
4 MR. LEWIS: We'll do that.
5 CFO GALLAGHER: We don't want to take it away from
6 somebody that's responsible for it.
7 MR. LEWIS: It would come off at the time the
8 disposal was done.
9 CFO GALLAGHER: At the sale, of course.
10 MR. LEWIS: Right.
11 CFO GALLAGHER: Okay.
12 THE GOVERNOR: All right. Any other questions?
13 Is there a motion?
14 CFO GALLAGHER: Well, I move that we accept the
15 report and we wait to see what the appraisals are and plan
16 for those buildings.
17 THE GOVERNOR: What does that mean?
18 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Question on the motion. The
19 motion was to not to necessarily accept the report, but to
20 wait until there is an evaluation of the value of the
21 property and to do each property separately? Is that what
22 you're --
23 CFO GALLAGHER: I don't know that we want -- I mean,
24 you have to do them separately. I think you need
25 appraisals. You can't -- you have to have an appraisal
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1 per property.
2 THE GOVERNOR: Just to remind the members here, there
3 will be -- this is just something to initiate a process.
4 Ultimately, this will require a three-vote majority to
5 accept the price. You can say that the appraisals, like
6 we do all the time, I may be the guiltiest party of this,
7 you know, the price is too low or whatever, and we will
8 have that right and it will require because it's
9 surplussing property, it will require a three-vote extra
10 majority for it to occur. But we can't get there until
11 we're approving this resolution or this motion -- I mean
12 this item.
13 CFO GALLAGHER: Well, then I guess I need Colleen to
14 tell us exactly what she's asking for.
15 MS. CASTILLE: I'm exactly asking you to allow us to
16 move forward with the packaging and marketing of the first
17 two -- the phase of the first two parcels, the Chevron and
18 the Johns Building and to do the phasing. Now we have
19 completed all of the appraisals for all of these parcels
20 and they're confidential now and we, of course -- you're
21 included in that confidentiality. But what we'd like to
22 do is to make sure that that remains confidential until we
23 get ready to offer the property to either the County and
24 the City and determine if they want those. And then we
25 move forward on a phasing process.
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1 CFO GALLAGHER: There's one other thing I'd like to
2 have and that would be I'd like to know what the costs are
3 to build the 160,000 square feet down in Southwood.
4 MS. CASTILLE: Down where? At Southwood?
5 CFO GALLAGHER: Southwood. And obviously if you're
6 not going to do it until '08 or start by '08, I don't know
7 what the agreement is. But, you know, obviously it will
8 cost more to do it then than it costs today.
9 MS. CASTILLE: Well, the appraisals will include that
10 based on the three processes. So you'll have the
11 comparable building included in the appraisal, what it
12 would cost to build us a building of that size now.
13 CFO GALLAGHER: Well, I want specific Southwood,
14 160,000 square feet, what it costs to build in those two.
15 MS. CASTILLE: We can do that.
16 THE GOVERNOR: All right.
17 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: How does the motion stand
18 then, the original motion?
19 THE GOVERNOR: Yes, General.
20 GENERAL CRIST: May I suggest that a friendly motion
21 to package and market as presented by the Department the
22 hailing of the Johns and Chevron building appraisals and
23 costs included as per the Treasurer's request as a motion.
24 CFO GALLAGHER: And the costs of building down in
25 Southwood.
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1 GENERAL CRIST: That's what the costs were.
2 CFO GALLAGHER: And then these come back to us down
3 the road for any kind of approval of transfer which I
4 think they have to anyway.
5 THE GOVERNOR: They have to and it requires three
6 votes. Correct?
7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I'll second the amended.
8 THE GOVERNOR: Okay. There is a motion and a second.
9 Colleen, does that accomplish what you need?
10 MS. CASTILLE: Yes, sir.
11 THE GOVERNOR: What about the Winchester grounds and
12 the Warren buildings?
13 MS. CASTILLE: We would be looking at what we would
14 do with those next and bring that back to you --
15 THE GOVERNOR: Okay. So those aren't a part of this.
16 MS. CASTILLE: -- on a phased approach.
17 THE GOVERNOR: Okay. There is a motion, amended
18 motion, and second. Any other discussion? Without
19 objection, the motion passes.
20 Thank you all very much for coming. Item 6.
21 MS. CASTILLE: Item 6 is a modification of a lease
22 with Whitley Bay Marina LLC. This is the consideration of
23 an application by Whitley Bay Marina LLC for modification
24 of two existing ten-year sovereignty submerged land leases
25 to, A, assign the leases to reflect a change of ownership.
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1 B, extend the term to 25 years. And, C, remove the
2 special lease condition requiring the facility to be open
3 to the public on a first-come/first-serve basis. And,
4 secondly, to modify an existing sovereignty submerged land
5 lease easement to assign the easement to reflect a change
6 of ownership. Governor and cabinet, we have before you
7 offered five options on this process.
8 THE GOVERNOR: Five?
9 MS. CASTILLE: We offered five options.
10 THE GOVERNOR: There's only four of us.
11 CFO GALLAGHER: These didn't come from us.
12 MS. CASTILLE: The first option would be to grant the
13 25-year extended lease term which is requested by the
14 applicant. The second option would be to deny the
15 extended term lease and keep the current leases in place
16 and assign the new owner. The third option would be to
17 grant two standard five-year term leases with no provision
18 for reduced lease fees because they won't be open to the
19 general public. And the fourth option is to have a
20 percentage of the slips available to the yacht club
21 members and a percentage of the slips available to the
22 public on a first-come/first-serve basis. Five is to
23 grant two new ten-year term leases retaining the special
24 lease condition for availability to the general public and
25 with the addition of a special lease condition that limits
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1 slip rental to terms no longer than one year with no
2 automatic renewal.
3 THE GOVERNOR: Is there no option that just says they
4 can assume the lease?
5 MS. CASTILLE: That would be Item 2, option two.
6 THE GOVERNOR: Okay.
7 MS. CASTILLE: We have numerous people here to
8 support and to oppose the item.
9 THE GOVERNOR: Okay.
10 MS. CASTILLE: Do you need some more background on
11 this or shall I just bring up --
12 THE GOVERNOR: No, I think we're pretty well briefed
13 on the subject. And we appreciate everybody coming and
14 providing their input and if you could just be brief I
15 would appreciate it.
16 CFO GALLAGHER: It is my understanding that there has
17 been finally some discussion outside. And it's also my
18 understanding they didn't finalize anything. But thanks
19 for at least talking to each other and now we'll hear from
20 everybody.
21 MS. CASTILLE: Thank you, Treasurer.
22 THE GOVERNOR: What order are we doing this, Colleen?
23 MS. CASTILLE: We're going to have Steve Lewis, who
24 represents the applicant, speak first. And we are waiting
25 for Representative Bob Allen.
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Mr. Lewis, I'm going to make a quick
2 NASCAR pit stop but it's not because I'm being
3 disrespectful of you.
4 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. My name is Steve Lewis. I'm
5 with the law firm of Lewis, Longman, Walker. We represent
6 Whitley Bay Marina LLC, the applicant. A little bit of
7 background. This was a commercial marina before we
8 purchased it and it will be a commercial marina after we
9 take control. Really, the only difference is our business
10 model. Our intention was to set this up and run this with
11 long-term leases, not short-term leases. We will offer
12 rental agreements to the general public. So, in our
13 opinion, it's still a public facility. There's a lot of
14 discussion about public versus private and privatization.
15 But it is a commercial marina and it will continue to be
16 public in the sense that anyone that is willing to pay for
17 a long-term lease will certainly be eligible.
18 It's a 117-slip facility. Seventeen of the slips
19 accommodate 35-foot vessels. All the rest are for larger
20 vessels, 40, 45. I think there's even some that will
21 handle up to 80. We do believe that what we proposed
22 complies with the Department's rules and policies. The
23 history behind this is that the City worked with the prior
24 owner and -- very, very quick. I'm impressed.
25 (Laughter.) I'm going to learn your secret.
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1 The City did participate with the prior owner of this
2 facility. And there is now a promenade, a boardwalk and
3 City funds were expended to assist in the construction of
4 those and those border around the perimeter of the marina
5 facility. And there were a lot of discussions by the
6 prior owner, the City, the citizens and everyone that was
7 involved which we personally were not factually aware of.
8 and did not know the entire history.
9 We've since gone back, researched the minutes, looked
10 at the documents. There is an agreement and three
11 amendments to that agreement. There is a license
12 agreement that allows for public access along a promenade
13 area and a boardwalk area around the marina. And it's our
14 legal opinion that it really never captured, I think, what
15 some of the folks in the City wanted to pursue. You know,
16 I've talked to the City now. I was very reluctant. I
17 mean, we've tried to really drill down into the real facts
18 on this and make sure that we understood what our legal
19 position was.
20 We feel that, you know, that we would like to work
21 with the City and its citizens. We think there is a
22 solution to this. We think it will take a little bit of
23 time. We obviously want to make sure that public access
24 continues. You know, we'll do everything we can within
25 our business model and, you know, how we would like to run
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1 the facility to accommodate the City and its citizens.
2 You know, I've not touched on everything that I had in my
3 original presentation because I think I'd like to close
4 with suggesting, and I think the City might agree to this,
5 that we are more than willing to work with the City
6 commission and its citizens of Cocoa to try to get this
7 resolved. We think maybe a deferral, time certain,
8 possibly in June, to try to hammer this out and work with
9 those that are interested in solving this issue. And all
10 I can do is commit to the Board that I'll do that and that
11 my clients have told me that they will do that and we'll
12 work very hard to do that. I'll be happy to answer any
13 questions. I'd like to go ahead and step off and let the
14 other folks talk and maybe I can respond to any specific
15 questions.
16 THE GOVERNOR: Any questions?
17 MS. CASTILLE: Mayor Michael Blake from the City of
18 Cocoa and then John Titkanich.
19 THE GOVERNOR: Good morning, mayor.
20 MAYOR BLAKE: Good morning, sir. Good morning,
21 Governor, trustees. I am Cocoa mayor Michael C. Blake.
22 It is an honor and a privilege to stand before you this
23 day. I would like to introduce our city council please,
24 if I may. Starting to my immediate right, Deputy Mayor
25 Jill Collins, Councilman Jim McCarthy, Councilman Jake
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1 Williams, Councilman Charlie Love (phonetic) and
2 supporters of the public marina as well.
3 The primary reason why we come before you today is to
4 address the need for the public access to the traditional
5 Whitley Bay Marina. This is an important issue in our
6 city that has gained momentum and garnered strong support
7 in favor of maintaining public access to this landmark in
8 our community. These are the areas that I would like to
9 discuss with you very briefly if I may.
10 One, the citizens voted on this issue in a
11 referendum. The outcome showed that 59 percent of the
12 voters wanted a public marina. The Intercoastal waters
13 have traditionally been a vehicle for tourists to access
14 the downtown Cocoa area. We would like the marina to
15 remain public. This facility is a tremendous economic
16 impact on our historic downtown area. Three, elected
17 officials from both the state and the county governments
18 and local municipalities, endorse our stance for public
19 access to the marina. Additionally, we've gained support
20 from intergovernmental agencies such as the Space Coast
21 League of Cities and the Cocoa Beach Area Chamber of
22 Commerce.
23 These institutions have submitted resolutions that
24 support maintaining Whitley Bay Marina's accessibility to
25 the public. We have used taxpayer dollars to build and
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1 enhance the popular marina. This shows our community our
2 commitment toward keeping the marina open to the public.
3 Clearly, the citizens have spoken. The elected officials
4 have spoken. We hope the Governor and the trustees will
5 support the recommendations that were submitted by the
6 Florida Department of Environmental Protection to promote
7 public access to Whitley Bay Marina. But before I move
8 on, I must introduce also our city manager, Rick Hope.
9 Please stand, sir, I'm sorry. Forgive me. A little
10 nervous up here.
11 THE GOVERNOR: Doing fine.
12 MAYOR BLAKE: Thank you, sir. In behalf, we would
13 like to say thank you and we look forward in rendering
14 results from your decision, please. Next on our list will
15 be our community developer, John Titkanich. Are there any
16 questions before I move? Thank you kindly, sir.
17 MR. TITKANICH: Governor, members of the cabinet,
18 thank you for your time. I briefly want to put this issue
19 in context. I think it's important to provide a brief
20 history on why we are here today. The City of Cocoa was
21 first settled in 1860s as a historic riverfront village.
22 It experienced some growing pains in the '50s and the '60s
23 with the space program, I-95, the widening of U.S. 1. And
24 then it experienced a significant period of decline and
25 disinvestment throughout the '70s and the '80s. The City,
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1 trying to address blight and slum and the deterioration in
2 the downtown -- trying to address blight and slum in the
3 downtown formed the Cocoa Redevelopment Agency and they
4 subsequently adopted a plan. They engaged that plan. In
5 1996, they updated that plan.
6 Specifically, they recognized the importance of Cocoa
7 village and its relation and proximity to the riverfront,
8 the Indian River Lagoon. They saw Cocoa Village as a
9 catalyst for growth not just within the redevelopment
10 area, but the City as a whole because the City had been
11 experiencing a significant decline. It sought to embrace
12 and connect the cultural and historical significance of
13 Cocoa's past with its present to shape a renaissance that
14 secures social and economic benefits for the future.
15 To put it in context, the City in the 2000 census
16 lost population, 7.2 percent. We've been experiencing a
17 significant stagnant and declining tax base. So I would
18 like to move on to our community redevelopment plan very
19 quickly. The main element of that community redevelopment
20 plan is the marina along with a number of other features
21 that are focused on the waterfront. And I'm going to run
22 through these in the interest of time.
23 These are the number of capital projects that have
24 been undertaken. Six of the ten priority projects are
25 related to that waterfront. Again, putting the investment
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1 in the waterfront trying to secure what was unique to the
2 City and Cocoa's history. At one time, 70 years of
3 economic dominance in Brevard County as a commercial
4 riverfront community. This was the former 400-space
5 surface parking lot. It had a roadway going through it.
6 This is what it looks like today as part of the City's
7 $3.4 million investment. This is a picture perfect
8 postcard to promote Florida's tourism.
9 This is the streetscape project we're getting ready
10 to undertake in spring, summer this year, of which a
11 portion of it will be related to the Whitley Bay project.
12 It's a $1.4 million project. Many have suggested the City
13 needs to look for an alternative public marina location.
14 Unfortunately, there are no alternative locations for the
15 City. We do have Lee Winter Park. But unfortunately due
16 to the environment's regulations related to dredging and
17 the potential adverse impact to the environment along with
18 the Brevard Manatee Protection Plan, we're unable to have
19 a location, a marina within our city.
20 And so therefore, based on that, the City sought to
21 partnership -- as the Whitleys were selling their property
22 we worked with the Whitleys and then we subsequently
23 worked with Town Realty to secure public access to the
24 waterfront. They invested -- the City invested more than
25 $1.2 million. You've heard of the promenade boardwalk
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1 streetscape. We did some other things. And now I want to
2 specifically focus on the application that Whitley Bay
3 Yacht Club has presented to you today.
4 The City council did go ahead and approve a -- or
5 unanimously adopt a motion regarding this issue. And many
6 have said that we have been emotional and sometime -- or
7 passionate and sometimes too emotional about this issue
8 and there's just reasons for that. We care about this
9 community. We set a vision in our community redevelopment
10 plan and we've been engaging the community on this vision
11 and therefore for the most essential element of that
12 community redevelopment plan to be ripped out from
13 underneath us, we're concerned about the impacts, the
14 public monies were invested in this project --
15 THE GOVERNOR: I'm sorry, can I ask you a question?
16 MR. TITKANICH: Yes, sir.
17 THE GOVERNOR: The development -- I may have been on
18 my pit stop, when Mr. Lewis was speaking, may have
19 answered this. But the development itself, did it require
20 approval of the City?
21 MR. TITKANICH: Both the redevelopment agency and the
22 City, that's correct, Governor.
23 THE GOVERNOR: So and at that time everybody -- I
24 mean, the plan was established, this is what our vision
25 was. We wanted to build these higher end condominiums
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1 that would create property values for our community which
2 I assume was part of your redevelopment efforts?
3 MR. TITKANICH: That's correct.
4 THE GOVERNOR: So what happened when they got to the
5 marina part?
6 MR. TITKANICH: The current applicants aren't the
7 original developer that we entered into the agreement
8 with.
9 THE GOVERNOR: What was the agreement on the marina
10 at that time?
11 MR. TITKANICH: And this is where there are some
12 issues. We relied on the City and the CRA relied on the
13 existing submerged land lease which has, in Provision 31B,
14 that the marina shall be maintained for public use,
15 90 percent of the slips. So as we went along, we were
16 looking to secure public access.
17 THE GOVERNOR: Right. So it never was an issue.
18 When the development rights were granted to build the
19 condominium or whatever is being built on the uplands,
20 this issue never was --
21 MR. TITKANICH: Never materialized, Governor.
22 THE GOVERNOR: The developers knew going in that they
23 weren't going to get a marina. They've come in
24 afterwards.
25 MR. TITKANICH: They were developing them hand in
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1 hand at the same time and the City was paying for the
2 promenade and boardwalk.
3 THE GOVERNOR: But this is important to me, that when
4 they made their decisions, they were seeking the
5 development rights for the condominium project, they did
6 not get -- they knew that they weren't going to get the
7 marina slips that they now are seeking to have in private
8 hands?
9 MR. TITKANICH: I guess it is a different marina than
10 the City originally approved. The concept plan was
11 connecting the two where one portion of the marina, the
12 discussions that were between the developer, Town Realty,
13 not the ones applying today, and the City, that a portion
14 of the marina, 66 slips, would be related to the
15 condominium. Another portion would be related to
16 maintaining the commercial marina that existed and the
17 City partnered with the 66-slip area to secure that public
18 access to the river.
19 So the development agreement contemplates to develop
20 our property and refers to the site plan but it
21 specifically does not cite, you know, define the project
22 as either wholly condominium or wholly marina.
23 THE GOVERNOR: I'm not -- I didn't understand a
24 single thing you said. Mr. Lewis, can you help me? I
25 apologize. It's me, not you. You know more about this
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1 than I do.
2 MR. LEWIS: And that's one of the reasons we had to
3 drill down into the record to try to get a better grasp of
4 what went on with the prior developer. There was
5 discussions and never materialized -- at least part of it.
6 There are actually two facilities and there was -- you
7 know, there was an exhibit up earlier that shows where the
8 mooring facilities are. But there was discussions about
9 some of the facilities being acquired strictly for the
10 condominium development.
11 THE GOVERNOR: Do you understand my question? Did
12 the developer have a knowledge that he was not going to
13 get private slips when he developed the condominium? Is
14 there a bait and switch going on here? Has there been
15 misleading? Are we being asked to validate bad behavior
16 by the City or has the City been consistent all along?
17 CFO GALLAGHER: Let me mention one thing, Governor.
18 And correct me if I'm wrong, Colleen. We have these
19 90 percent things in most all of our leases, and it
20 basically says that you get a discount from us if you have
21 90 percent for the public. To the best of my knowledge --
22 MS. CASTILLE: This was a special lease condition.
23 If you remember -- I'm not sure if you were here or not.
24 Ms. Whitley was coming here for the rebuilding of her
25 marina and the expansion of some of the slips and this was
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1 many years -- several years ago. I believe it was in your
2 first administration, Governor. And we went to the
3 Whitleys. Ms. Whitley and I met with the current then
4 mayor and she agreed to the special lease condition for
5 first-come/first-serve -- on a first-come/first-serve
6 basis. And it was all tied in together with the
7 development of this Town Realty development with the
8 condos and shopping and the promenade.
9 CFO GALLAGHER: Okay. But normally because this is
10 now a special deal and I remember that because of that.
11 But normally our 90 percent deal is we give them a
12 discount on the lease to agree to 90 percent. And we
13 don't enforce this anywhere that I know of.
14 MS. CASTILLE: We do enforce.
15 CFO GALLAGHER: If they pay us the full amount, they
16 don't have to go along with the 90 percent. It's their
17 choice.
18 MS. CASTILLE: It's a -- on all of these, it's very
19 controversial. And when somebody decides they want to
20 make it open to the public, we require -- if they want
21 that discount, we require them to do the open to the
22 public.
23 CFO GALLAGHER: What I'm saying is it's their choice,
24 not ours. In other words, it's a 90 percent in there.
25 What people aren't looking at is the 90 percent is there
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1 because they get a discount for the 90 percent. If they
2 choose not to, they just pay the full deal and, you know,
3 it's not 90 percent at least as I remember.
4 MR. LEWIS: That's correct, Treasurer. That seems to
5 be how it operates. Now, you know, I'm not saying that's
6 absolutely 100 percent --
7 CFO GALLAGHER: I can understand why it's
8 controversial and I think we ought to be looking at this
9 and see how we operate it. But I think this is probably
10 the method by which you were thinking when you bought it.
11 But this one may be a little bit different than the other
12 ones that are 90 percent because of Ms. Whitley's --
13 Whitney --
14 THE GOVERNOR: Whitley.
15 CFO GALLAGHER: Whitley, I'm sorry. With her sort of
16 negotiation with us and the City, et cetera that Colleen
17 referred to.
18 MR. LEWIS: Governor and Treasurer, one of the things
19 we were trying to look at, we weren't the developers. We
20 came in and acquired the marina. I did not do the due
21 diligence or any of that stuff on all the various
22 documents, transactional documents. But the one thing
23 that we found when we went through the agreements and the
24 amended agreements that really led to the condominium
25 development and the improvements around the edge of the
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1 marina, the boardwalk and the promenade, there was also a
2 licensing agreement that allowed the public to use these
3 facilities and come out by the edge of the marina and
4 along the boundary and it's called the promenade area.
5 And in that, there is language that basically says the
6 City is to cooperate on any amendments to the lease or
7 other permits.
8 And so it led me to conclude, like I said we walked
9 into this fairly recently, and that's one of the reasons I
10 want to try to sit down with the City and its citizens and
11 try to get this all sorted out, is it appeared that at
12 least no one had memorialized any binding legal document
13 anywhere that -- consideration to the City was to keep it
14 run a certain way.
15 THE GOVERNOR: It's coming -- the lack of clarity is
16 coming clearer to me. The City believes that their
17 agreement with your predecessor gave them secured public
18 access for those marina slips.
19 MR. LEWIS: Correct.
20 THE GOVERNOR: You believe that when you did your due
21 diligence to take over the developer's position, that the
22 agreement gives you the right to convert these to private
23 use. Now how -- why are we here? That sounds like that's
24 a court case waiting to happen.
25 CFO GALLAGHER: Because we have the final say.
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Yeah, but I mean my views on this
2 would change subject to knowing --
3 CFO GALLAGHER: What the agreements were.
4 THE GOVERNOR: I mean, if the City has been
5 consistent on this and, you know, buyer beware, here comes
6 a guy wanting to put up sizeable sums of money to be part
7 of the redevelopment efforts and to invest and take risks
8 and he was offered something and that was part of the
9 decision that went into the underwriting of making that
10 investment, that's one thing.
11 If it was clear that he didn't have access to these
12 private slips through the conversion, that it was going to
13 be public use, that's a totally different thing. I mean,
14 I still think that the public marinas ought to stay
15 public. That's an underlying principle that I think we
16 had a general consensus about. But why are we having to
17 make a decision about something that hasn't been --
18 CFO GALLAGHER: Because this hasn't been a public
19 marina. It hasn't been one. It's been a private marina
20 with a lease from us and the ability to lease out slips --
21 MR. TITKANICH: In this specific submerged land
22 lease, it doesn't provide an option; it specifically
23 states that they shall be made available. It doesn't
24 provide that option as it discusses in the Florida
25 Administrative Code. And the City relied on that and its
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1 development agreements and the license agreements were
2 predicated upon that they have to comply with the subjects
3 or the terms and conditions of the sovereign submerged
4 land lease. So we relied on a clause that was in the
5 existing submerged land lease that protected public
6 access. So then we invested our monies, the City did and
7 the citizens. And now there is an application made to
8 eliminate that or modify that provision and that's where
9 the City is opposed to because of the public investment in
10 the project.
11 THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Colleen, you better grab the
12 podium. It looks like you're losing control here.
13 MS. CASTILLE: It's an affirmative -- on this
14 particular lease, it is an affirmative statement that this
15 marina, privately owned by an individual but publicly
16 available to the public, is open on a
17 first-come/first-serve basis. If it was Steve Lewis doing
18 the due diligence, I know he would have said, This looks
19 like a different section than what is normally in a lease
20 because he does leases all the time. Somebody else did
21 the due diligence and they believe that open to the public
22 on a first-come/first-serve basis was defined as we could
23 do it on a first-come/first-serve basis but we're charging
24 $350,000 a slip or $150,000 a slip.
25 THE GOVERNOR: Mr. Lewis, can you confirm that?
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1 MR. LEWIS: Governor, as the Treasurer stated, the
2 first-come/first-serve even in your rule is permissive.
3 And a lot of people have it in there but don't comply with
4 it and they pay the full freight, they don't get the
5 30 percent discount.
6 When I looked at all the documents and we've gone
7 through a couple of months of minutes trying to figure out
8 the discussions that went on between the City, its
9 citizens and the prior developer, that's one of the
10 reasons that I went to the City and suggested, Look, why
11 don't we just defer this for a time certain and let's try
12 to sit down with the City and its citizens and come up
13 with something. They will still have access. There is a
14 license that allows them access out to the marina. You
15 know, we more than once, I stated I'm sure we'd be happy
16 to maintain it. We're not going to prevent the public
17 from coming to the marina.
18 There continues to be courtesy parking of vessels
19 that come there that want to go to lunch or shop in the
20 downtown area and they're not charged. I'm still wading
21 through this too and I really would like to bring back a
22 solution. I'm solution-oriented. That's always been my
23 perspective on things and I'm not fond of litigation. You
24 know, they say it's the sport of kings. It's expensive
25 and time-consuming. Certainly we don't want to be in
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1 litigation with the Board or with the City or anybody
2 else.
3 What we would like to do, with the permission of the
4 Board, is to give us a time certain, let us defer this and
5 let us work with the City fathers and its citizens to try
6 to solve this.
7 THE GOVERNOR: Commissioner Bronson, thank you for
8 your patience.
9 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: And I know this is a pretty
10 big issue for a number of people and especially with the
11 mayor. I remember the mayor when he was an up and coming
12 young city commissioner. Now he's the head man of the
13 whole problem down there now. He's inherited it.
14 THE GOVERNOR: Congratulations.
15 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: It is my understanding that
16 the current lease as stated goes to 2008 on one portion
17 and 2010 on the other; is that correct?
18 MS. CASTILLE: That is correct, sir.
19 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: So if we were to keep the same
20 lease --
21 THE GOVERNOR: Assign the lease.
22 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: -- and assign it to the new
23 owners and that gives before any other lease is ever done
24 on that property again, it gives them a time to work these
25 issues out with the City and all of those, the public and
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1 everybody, has a chance to be a player in that. And then
2 by the time that lease is up in 2008, they'll be able to
3 come back with hopefully a worked out agreement. And that
4 seems to me that gives them plenty of time to work this
5 issue out, then I would make a motion that we extend the
6 submerged land lease to the new owners based on the
7 2008 --
8 THE GOVERNOR: 2010.
9 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: -- and 2010 time line.
10 CFO GALLAGHER: Governor, that is, what you just
11 stated, is option two. I believe -- I'm in favor of
12 option two and the reason I am -- and that doesn't mean
13 you have to wait until 2008 or 2010 to negotiate. It puts
14 pressure on the City to get something finalized way before
15 then. Certainly, the developer -- because your public
16 wants finalization. It puts the developer in a position
17 where he got exactly what he bought and no more but that's
18 not really where he wants to be and so it puts pressure on
19 him to try to get close to where his business plan took
20 him, et cetera. And to me, I don't think I like, any more
21 than you do, Governor, getting in the middle of local
22 ownership and a public body. We do everything we can to
23 stay out of the middle of that and so -- and I'd like to
24 hear why both of you would not go along with my motion,
25 which I'll make to take option two.
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1 THE GOVERNOR: You're seconding?
2 CFO GALLAGHER: Seconding. Did somebody do two?
3 MS. CASTILLE: I believe the mayor would be
4 supportive of option two.
5 MR. LEWIS: The City -- we spoke with the developer
6 this morning and option two would be okay because the
7 City's position is that we're just concerned about public
8 access and the developer has indicated he wants to work
9 with the City and the citizens and we are fine with that.
10 CFO GALLAGHER: Okay. Citizens? Developers? Where
11 are they?
12 THE GOVERNOR: They're talking.
13 MR. LEWIS: The one concern that I have is that by
14 agreeing to that assignment will it in any way cause a
15 problem if we have to go back to the developer that
16 originally did this. I don't know if it will somehow
17 taint any kind of legal proceeding. I'm not a contract
18 lawyer so I'm a little worried that it's an acknowledgment
19 of some sort that may not -- it may be part of our legal
20 argument.
21 CFO GALLAGHER: Well, all this does is allow you to
22 accept the assignment of the only thing we have a lot to
23 say about is the submerged land. And we're allowing you
24 to take the assignment, which you've already contracted to
25 do. And so you technically have control of it already.
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1 But we're allowing you to change the name on the contract.
2 If it's any more than that, I don't know what it is. Any
3 more than that, Colleen?
4 MR. LEWIS: The only thing I'd want to do is talk to
5 one of our contract type lawyers that would say somehow if
6 we've got to go back to town, if we've got some cause of
7 action against them --
8 THE GOVERNOR: Your cause of action would be in your
9 development agreement with them, wouldn't it?
10 MR. LEWIS: I'm not schooled in that. I generally
11 deal with sovereign lands and environmental issues,
12 Governor. But I think ---
13 CFO GALLAGHER: Let's put it this way. We can't make
14 you sign a contract.
15 MR. LEWIS: I understand.
16 CFO GALLAGHER: So what we're doing is authorizing
17 our department to sign one with you if you choose to. And
18 if you chose not to, you're right where you are right now.
19 You can't do anything other than what that says. If you
20 chose to for some reason or other to put it in your name,
21 have at it. In the meantime, start working with the City
22 and the residents there to work out something that they
23 can live with and you can live with.
24 MR. LEWIS: And that may be where we are. We've
25 already made the approach to the City. So I think
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1 we'll --
2 THE GOVERNOR: All right. There's a motion and a
3 second. The motion is for what we will refer to as option
4 two. Any other discussion?
5 I don't know if we need to have -- why do you want to
6 speak if you're about ready to close the sale? That's a
7 bad thing to do. You must not be in the real estate
8 business, marketing business, whatever. Is there anybody
9 that would --
10 MS. CASTILLE: Governor, could I just ask everyone to
11 stand who is here to support the marina and as a public
12 marina.
13 (Audience members stand.)
14 THE GOVERNOR: What are the rest of the people doing
15 here?
16 (Laughter.)
17 CFO GALLAGHER: They're watching their government in
18 action.
19 THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
20 MS. CASTILLE: And Representative Allen is here as
21 well too to support.
22 THE GOVERNOR: Representative Allen, thank you, sir.
23 Good to see you.
24 CFO GALLAGHER: Is he in favor of what we're doing?
25 THE GOVERNOR: Yes, I think he is.
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1 MS. CASTILLE: Yes, he is.
2 THE GOVERNOR: You were nodding.
3 REPRESENTATIVE ALLEN: Two is good.
4 THE GOVERNOR: Any other discussion? There's a
5 motion and a second. All in favor say aye.
6 (Aye.)
7 All opposed.
8 (No response.)
9 Very good. Thank you.
10 MS. CASTILLE: Thank you. That concludes our agenda.
11 (Thereupon, the proceedings concluded at 12:05 p.m.)
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2 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
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4 STATE OF FLORIDA )
5 COUNTY OF LEON )
6
7 I, KRISTEN L. BENTLEY, Court Reporter, certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time and
9 place therein designated; that my shorthand notes were
10 thereafter translated under my supervision; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 1 through 112 are a true and correct record of
12 the aforesaid proceedings.
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14 I further certify that I am not a relative, employee,
15 attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative
16 or employee of any of the parties' attorney or counsel
17 connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in
18 the action.
19 DATED this 29th day of March, 2005.
20 ______________________________
21 KRISTEN L. BENTLEY, Court Reporter
Notary Public
22 850-878-2221
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
Cabinet
Affairs
