Cabinet
Affairs |
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2 T H E C A B I N E T
3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
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Representing:
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FISCAL ACCOUNTING INFORMATION BOARD
6 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
7 DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY
AND MOTOR VEHICLES
8 DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
9 STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
10 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
11 TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
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13 The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
14 presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
15 February 25, 1997, commencing at approximately
9:44 a.m.
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18 Reported by:
19 LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
20 Certified Court Reporter
Notary Public in and for
21 the State of Florida at Large
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23 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
24 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
904/878-2221
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES
Governor
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BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
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SANDRA B. MORTHAM
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
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BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN
Commissioner of Education
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
February 25, 1997
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1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 FISCAL ACCOUNTING INFORMATION BOARD:
(Presented by Martin Young,
4 Secretary)
5 1 Approved 82
2 Approved 82
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
7 (Presented by Tom Herndon,
Executive Director)
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1 Approved 83
9 2 Approved 83
3 Approved 83
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
11 (Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director)
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1 Approved 85
13 2 Approved 85
3 Approved 94
14 4 a) through 4 f) Approved 86
15 DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES:
(Presented by Fred O. Dickinson, III,
16 Executive Director)
17 1 Approved 95
2 Approved 131
18 3 Approved 131
19 FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT:
(Presented by James T. Moore,
20 Executive Director)
21 1 Approved 133
2 Approved 133
22 3 Approved 135
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
February 25, 1997
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1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
3 (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
Deputy Commissioner)
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1 Approved 46
5 2 Approved 46
3 Report 46
6 4 Withdrawn 60
5 Good Cause Item 9
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STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION:
8 (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
Deputy Commissioner)
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1 Approved 61
10 2 Approved 81
11 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
12 Secretary)
13 1 Approved 6
2 Approved 7
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FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
15 ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION:
(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
16 Secretary)
17 1 Approved 8
2 Deferred 8
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
February 25, 1997
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1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
3 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
4 (Presented by Kirby B. Green, III,
Assistant Secretary)
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1 Deferred 139
6 2 Approved 139
3 Approved 139
7 4 Approved 140
5 Approved 140
8 6 Approved 140
7 Approved 141
9 8 Approved 141
9 Denied 156
10 10 Denied 156
Substitute 11 Deferred 170
11
12 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 173
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
February 25, 1997
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:03 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: We're going to skip just
4 a little bit around today, and take up the
5 Administration Commission first, then Florida
6 Land and Water Adjudicatory Commission, then
7 we'll take State Board of Education, State Board
8 of Career Education, then go back to our agenda.
9 We have some people that were out of town,
10 and we want to try to accommodate them.
11 DR. BRADLEY: On the
12 Administration Commission.
13 Item number 1 is recommend approval of the
14 minutes of the meeting held February 11th, 1997.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move it.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion and --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- second.
19 Without objection, minutes are approved.
20 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2 is recommend
21 approval of the transfer of general revenue
22 appropriations in the Department of Education.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
February 25, 1997
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1 Without objection, that's approved.
2 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
3 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
February 25, 1997
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Land and Water
2 Adjudicatory Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1 is request
4 approval of the minutes of the January 28th,
5 1997 --
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval --
7 DR. BRADLEY: -- Cabinet meeting.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- of the minutes.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 DR. BRADLEY: Then Item number 2 is request
12 approval -- I mean, approval of a deferral of
13 this -- of the matter involving the
14 Franklin County Resort Village --
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move deferral,
16 Governor --
17 DR. BRADLEY: -- to the March 11th
18 Commission meeting.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded on a
21 motion to defer.
22 And without objection, that's granted.
23 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
24 Commission Agenda was concluded.)
25 *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
9
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. We'll go now
2 to the State Board of Education.
3 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
4 DR. BEDFORD: Governor Chiles, members of
5 the State Board of Education, good morning.
6 With your permission, I'm also going to go
7 out of order with my own agenda.
8 We'd like to go to Item 5 first. This is
9 where we have a lot of speakers from out of
10 town.
11 Item 5 is the purchase of WXEL Television
12 by Barry University. It is brought before you
13 today for your information. The State Board of
14 Education is the lessor in this potential
15 transaction.
16 We'd like to begin today with a short
17 presentation by Mike Olenick, our
18 General Counsel.
19 MR. OLENICK: Governor, members of the
20 Cabinet, my name is Mike Olenick, and I am the
21 attorney for the State Board of Education.
22 I have received many comments, as has the
23 Commissioner, from your aides, as well as many
24 members of the Cabinet, over a proposed merger
25 between South Florida Public Telecommunications,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 Inc., which is better known as WXEL; and
2 Barry Telecommunications, which is a subsidiary
3 of Barry University.
4 Just very briefly, in 1989, there was a
5 lease agreement between the State Board of
6 Education as lessor, which is why you're even
7 involved in this --
8 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
9 MR. OLENICK: -- and South Florida Public
10 Telecommunication, Inc.
11 We, the State Board of Ed, leased a
12 5 million dollar -- put 5 million dollars of the
13 PECO money into a building which sits on WXEL --
14 and I'll use WXEL, meaning South Florida
15 Public -- South Florida Public
16 Telecommunications, Inc., because it makes it
17 easier.
18 That land is owned by XEL, but the
19 building, which was PECO funded, is owned by the
20 State Board of Ed. So there's a lease
21 agreement.
22 Subsequent to '89, there was another
23 million dollars put in of PECO funds, totaling,
24 since 1989, over 6 million dollars of public --
25 public money into this -- into the building and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 equipment.
2 The lease language in the 1989 agreement
3 requires that any assignee demonstrate that they
4 are an educational or noncommercial broadcasting
5 entity authorized by the State of Florida. And
6 we put WXEL --
7 And I, by the way, have been working with
8 the Attorney General's Office in this matter.
9 A letter was sent on February 17th to
10 WXEL's attorney informing them of that provision
11 within the lease.
12 We have received a myriad of documents from
13 WXEL. I want to indicate that both Barry and
14 XEL have been extremely cooperative in working
15 with us, but there is much documentation and
16 much document review.
17 The limited purpose, in my mind, of the
18 Governor and Cabinet, or the State Board of
19 Education, today is to get input from the
20 various parties. And I understand that there
21 are a number of people who want to speak.
22 And, in essence, to have a public forum for
23 this matter since it is public money being
24 transferred.
25 The issue may -- and I emphasize may come
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 back before the State Board of Education. But
2 if it does, it would be for the sole purpose of
3 determining whether or not there is the --
4 whether or not the new entity, this Barry Tel.,
5 is, in fact, an educational, noncommercial
6 broadcasting entity. But that'll be for a later
7 date.
8 So I think for today's purpose, if I can
9 sort of frame it, it's public input, as well as
10 any questions that you may have of me. And
11 also, Ms. CeCe Dykas is here with the
12 Attorney General's Office. And we can answer
13 any questions.
14 But with that, I'd turn it over to the
15 people that want to speak.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question?
17 Yeah, hold on just a minute.
18 MR. OLENICK: Yes, sir.
19 TREASURER NELSON: Yeah. Let me see if you
20 can help me understand by framing some of the
21 issues.
22 Now, this station has been troubled for a
23 few years; has it not?
24 MR. OLENICK: That's a fair statement.
25 TREASURER NELSON: And in the course of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 those troubled times, a sister station in Miami,
2 Channel 2, the public television station there,
3 has basically become the dominant station; is
4 that a fair statement?
5 MR. OLENICK: I -- I'd go along with that,
6 sir. Yes.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. Now, in the
8 course of these few years of trouble -- troubled
9 times, has any of the equipment been upgraded?
10 MR. OLENICK: I'm not aware of that, sir.
11 You'd have to ask someone from WXEL. I would
12 assume that there's been some upgradings, but I
13 couldn't answer that.
14 TREASURER NELSON: Well, put another way,
15 is it going to take six to ten million dollars
16 to upgrade the technology of this station to get
17 it where it could be competitive?
18 MR. OLENICK: My understanding that -- the
19 president of Barry is here. But my
20 understanding, yes, sir, it would take millions
21 more input for this station to be competitive,
22 and to remain a community based station. Yes.
23 TREASURER NELSON: Is it correct that the
24 radio station -- it has a radio station.
25 MR. OLENICK: Yes.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 TREASURER NELSON: And that license has
2 value; does it not?
3 MR. OLENICK: Yes, sir.
4 TREASURER NELSON: And does that license --
5 is that being sought by others as well?
6 MR. OLENICK: There's rumors to that
7 effect. But I -- my understanding is that the
8 agreement contemplated with Barry would be
9 one -- one agreement. Not break them apart.
10 TREASURER NELSON: So we have a troubled
11 station that has outdated equipment that's going
12 to cost a lot, but does have a valuable radio
13 license.
14 MR. OLENICK: Yes, sir.
15 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. Thanks.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, if
17 I could --
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- maybe
20 just add something. I think why we're here, to
21 some extent, is because we have what
22 Palm Beach County and the surrounding area
23 believes to be a community asset where people in
24 that community have been subject to fund drives
25 to raise money to keep the radio station and TV
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 station working, just as they do here in
2 Tallahassee, and every other Public Service TV
3 station and radio station.
4 Local people have given money.
5 As well as the Florida Legislature, through
6 the Board of Education.
7 It appeared that this community asset
8 was -- was, in essence, going to be either
9 merged with, or sold to something -- to someone
10 else.
11 Whenever this occurs, a community, I think
12 rightfully, starts wondering why is there such
13 secrecy, how come we don't know about it? How
14 come the first day we find out about it is when
15 it has already happened?
16 And -- and then I think properly the public
17 has to have a hearing to find out what has
18 occurred. I think we need it up here as a State
19 Board of Education. The Legislature's
20 concerned, what happened to our 5 million
21 dollars, how can this happen?
22 So really, in essence, this is the first
23 public hearing on the issue.
24 MR. OLENICK: That's correct, sir.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
2 DR. BEDFORD: Our next speaker is
3 Murray Green, Vice President, General Manager,
4 WFLX TV, West Palm Beach.
5 MR. GREEN: Governor, Commissioners, thank
6 you for the opportunity. My name is
7 Murray J. Green. I am Vice President and
8 General Manager of the Fox affiliate, WFLX, in
9 West Palm Beach; and a Senior Vice President of
10 the Television Division of
11 Malrite Communications, the company that owns
12 WFLX.
13 We are a company that takes a great deal of
14 pride in our involvement in the community, and
15 that's why I'm here. We view WFLX, as you said,
16 Commissioner Butterworth, as a community asset.
17 And it's also a community trust and a public
18 trust.
19 It is licensed to serve the community, that
20 community being a five-county area, which
21 involves the Treasure Coast and
22 Palm Beach County and Okeechobee County.
23 From 1982 until 1993, it did so very well.
24 There were thousands of members and volunteers
25 that raised millions of dollars, and it was
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 solvent.
2 In April '92, problems became imminent.
3 There was a letter that I wrote to the Board on
4 the 24th of April -- to the Board of WXEL, let
5 me say -- on the 24th of April, recommending
6 that they put a local broadcaster on the Board,
7 and I recommended a very well respected
8 broadcast administrator at that time. That
9 letter was totally ignored.
10 There are five commercial stations in the
11 community, and they serve the community well.
12 And the market certainly is large enough to
13 support a public television station of its own.
14 It did so, and it can continue to do so.
15 There are many, many smaller markets that do so
16 very well.
17 I'm really here to ask only one thing of
18 this Board -- of this body, that they conduct a
19 public hearing inside the market, and allow the
20 people who have supported WXEL to express their
21 feelings.
22 I would like to see the people who have
23 been involved, the volunteers, come before this
24 group and tell you how they feel. And ask those
25 who serve WXEL if they will again support it
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 with their dollars. When you have done that, we
2 believe that you will find that there is already
3 a renewed interest in WXEL TV and FM.
4 And under a newly appointed Board, and
5 inspired management, you will again have a
6 station that the area and the state can be proud
7 of. We believe that it's imperative that those
8 who are to be served by WXEL have an opportunity
9 to speak to you.
10 Thank you very much.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
12 DR. BEDFORD: Dr. Charles Reed, Chancellor,
13 State University System.
14 Charlie.
15 DR. REED: Governor, members of the State
16 Board of Education, around the middle of
17 January, the State University System first heard
18 of WXEL's relationship, or proposed
19 relationship, with a private institution.
20 At the January 24th Board of Regents
21 meeting in Pensacola, I was directed by the
22 Board of Regents to write to the State Board of
23 Education and ask the State Board to look at the
24 lease agreement that the State Board of
25 Education had with WXEL, because several of our
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 institutions were interested in the operation of
2 a public television station, specifically
3 Florida Atlantic University and Florida
4 International University.
5 Since that time, Broward Community College,
6 Palm Beach Community College, and Indian River
7 Community College have formed a consortium with
8 Florida Atlantic University, and Florida
9 International University, to consider the
10 possibility of being a part of operating WXEL.
11 As you know, the State University System
12 operates several public television stations. We
13 have operated public television stations,
14 I believe, very successfully over the past
15 umpteen years.
16 The Board of Regents felt that the Board of
17 Education's fiduciary responsibility was one of
18 looking at the assets, something close to
19 7 million dollars, of the State's money that had
20 been invested in WXEL, and whether or not a
21 consortium of institutions could be put together
22 to operate the television station.
23 I'm here to say that that consortium could
24 be broadened to include private institutions,
25 Barry, Nova, Nova University, Southeast -- Nova
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 has a lot of experience of operating
2 telecommunication systems and television
3 stations.
4 I would like to request -- and I don't know
5 if it's too late, I'm not a lawyer -- the
6 opportunity for the public institutions, and the
7 other institutions in south Florida, to look at
8 the possibility of forming a consortium to come
9 back to the State Board of Education and
10 recommend to you a way of operating that
11 television station.
12 If we could do that, it would take us
13 probably several weeks. We need to look at the
14 books, we need to look at the structure, we need
15 to look at what the public investments have
16 been, what the costs would be in order to do
17 this.
18 But Florida Atlantic University, Florida
19 International University, Broward Community
20 College, Palm Beach Community College, and
21 Indian River Community College are all very
22 willing and anxious to try to do what they can
23 to operate this station.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question?
25 Thank you very much.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 DR. BEDFORD: We have with us Mary Souder,
2 President and CEO of WXEL; and Sister
3 Jeanne O'Laughlin, President of Barry College.
4 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: University.
5 DR. BEDFORD: University. Excuse me.
6 It shows you I read what's written, doesn't
7 it?
8 MS. SOUDER: Thank you.
9 Governor, members of the State Board, I
10 would like to address the question of whether or
11 not Barry Tel. would be qualified to assume the
12 risk. But before doing that, I would like to
13 clarify a couple of issues, and answer some of
14 the questions that have been raised.
15 First of all, the question of Channel 2 in
16 the market has been raised. There is a history
17 going back to the beginning of the station in
18 which Channel 2 initially challenged the license
19 at the FCC, and there is a long sustainable
20 history of Channel 2 making various offers at
21 different times to acquire that license, as well
22 as a record of their putting substantial
23 investment in a market to which their broadcast
24 signal does not reach.
25 And they invest most of their development
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 and fund raising money and activities in the
2 market.
3 Secondly was the question of the radio
4 license. In fact, the station has been
5 approached by brokers on behalf of other
6 501(C) (3), not-for-profit organizations, those
7 qualified to hold educational licenses for the
8 outright purchase of the license.
9 Such a purchase would, in effect, have
10 taken the NPR and public radio service out of
11 the community, and replaced it with a service of
12 another kind.
13 It would have brought, as someone had
14 suggested, money into the operation of the
15 station. But the consideration of this process
16 is not to sell or to have assets leave the
17 community, but to maintain and preserve a vital
18 community asset.
19 The question of secrecy has been raised.
20 This has been a long and thoughtful process. In
21 November, we released press releases to all of
22 the media in Palm Beach County. I personally
23 had individual phone calls with the general
24 managers of all of the commercial stations in
25 Miami to -- in Miami, as well as in Palm Beach,
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 to discuss this issue.
2 We had held an annual meeting. The notices
3 for the annual meeting were posted on all radio
4 and television stations, as well as in the
5 newspapers. There was much made in the local
6 press about the annual meeting, and very few
7 members came to that meeting.
8 Instead, we had hundreds of calls from
9 members and partners in the community who have
10 been supportive of this process.
11 So the question again: Is Barry Tel.
12 qualified to assume the lease.
13 I would suggest to you that Barry Tel. will
14 be no less than what WXEL is today. In fact, it
15 will be more.
16 A review of the documents stresses the
17 continuation and continuity of service, and that
18 means NPR and PBS, and the outreach and
19 educational activities which we do.
20 In fact, the intervention of
21 Barry University has already demonstrated their
22 commitment.
23 The real question is: What should be
24 continued? Has WXEL served the public
25 interest? Well, let's take a look at the
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 record.
2 There have been problems, but in spite of
3 these problems, there's a strong record of
4 service and success.
5 Foremost, what is WXEL? It is a
6 private/public partnership, just as public
7 broadcasting across the country is one of the
8 most nation's successful public/private
9 partnerships.
10 Just a few of our partners: The State of
11 Florida, and we recognize and thank you for what
12 you have provided; the Federal government; our
13 local Board of Education; businesses,
14 foundations; donors; and now Barry University.
15 How does it work? Collaboration, organized
16 around four product lines. We look at our
17 product lines as heritage and culture,
18 information and data, education and learning,
19 development and training.
20 We work with the -- we are the official
21 emergency communication center for
22 Palm Beach County. That's a partnership with
23 the Palm Beach Office of Emergency Services.
24 And we're working to extend that commitment
25 through the Board of Ed by interconnecting their
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 ITFS system and our emergency communication
2 systems.
3 We currently offer courses for college
4 credit. For the past two-and-a-half years, we
5 have been in partnership with Palm Beach
6 Community College, and we have offered many
7 courses, and they have had over 700 students
8 enrolled through that partnership.
9 For the past five months, we have been in
10 conversations with Indian River Community
11 College to offer the same courses for college
12 credits. We have GED on TV, and we've had
13 partners in that. You may be surprised that the
14 Cable Club of Palm Beach was the first partner
15 who brought money to that and provided
16 scholarships for students to complete the GED.
17 And one of the first graduates of our GED on TV
18 program is now completing nursing school.
19 That's a success, that's a community resource.
20 We work with AARP, and -- in an area where
21 we have an aging demographic, you will believe
22 that our Fifty-Five Alive Program, which teaches
23 defensive driving to citizens, is a valuable
24 program.
25 And our first book, which is a continuity
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February 25, 1997
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1 literacy program for teachers, children, and
2 parents. And who do we work with? The Mom's
3 Club, United Way, subsidized child care, safe
4 and drug-free schools, and children's services.
5 And what about our Ready-to-Learn? It is
6 well-known among educators that one of the goals
7 of America 2000 is that children be ready to
8 learn by the time they enter school. Funded by
9 the CPB, and in collaboration with WLRN,
10 reconstitute the largest and only collaborative
11 ready-to-learn effort in the country.
12 In the past, we have trained over
13 700 teachers and day care providers. This is a
14 record of success.
15 The State of Florida's own research shows
16 that public broadcasting is the most utilized
17 broadcast technology and the most utilized
18 educational technology in the classroom.
19 Through our training programs and other
20 initiatives, we extend that use, and we help
21 teachers, parents, and day care providers.
22 So what does Barry Tel. bring? Barry Tel.
23 brings a commitment to localism and local
24 control. Barry Tel. brings scale and strength
25 to a station, which for more than 25 years has
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 had financial problems.
2 It brings lay leadership that can support a
3 12 million dollar capital campaign to rebuild an
4 aging infrastructure; a strong and committed
5 partner to public television, and to the
6 state of Florida.
7 It brings flexibility to an organization
8 whose strength is innovation. We are the first
9 and only station in the country to have a
10 partnership with cable services and cable
11 providers bringing programs to heritage and
12 cultural groups in our community that would not
13 otherwise be available, even on the cable
14 systems in Palm Beach County.
15 And finally, it brings the financial
16 stability, which the television and radio
17 station has not been able to maintain in
18 25 years.
19 Thank you for your consideration.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
21 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: Good morning.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning,
23 Sister Jeanne.
24 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: I have to say, it is a
25 great privilege to be part of the dialogue going
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1 on here.
2 I think it was when I was in
3 Commissioner Milligan's, the Comptroller, when
4 he was listening to me and made a remark about
5 how great the Democratic process is, that we as
6 a people come together to talk about issues that
7 affect the life of a community.
8 I am, and have only been interested in
9 community service for this area. I've long been
10 a proponent of public television, and that it
11 should be for the local community.
12 We have about 1500 students in that area
13 this year, and over 9,000 alums, or people
14 related to Barry.
15 I'm not a lawyer. I only know that it
16 appeared to be, to me, a priority to save the
17 station.
18 When we stepped up to the plate and put the
19 money down, that was an important action for us,
20 for, as you know better than I, there's not
21 money in public television. It takes a lot of
22 hard work, and it takes a lot of true service to
23 a community.
24 I cheat a little bit. I prayed about
25 today. I was very concerned that the community
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1 be served by whatever format comes from your
2 decisions. For I have great respect, and really
3 reverence, for the kind of decisions that are
4 made by this body.
5 However, to me, the question is, was this
6 legal or not legal. With many lawyers speaking
7 to me, it has been said that it is legal. If it
8 is not, then you should tell me, and I should
9 step aside.
10 If it is legal, then we should move
11 forward, for justice is going to be served or
12 denied on that.
13 If we step forward, I would say that we
14 have a three-phase project to do. And I believe
15 very much, as Charlie Reed, who is a colleague
16 and a friend of mine, as is Tony, that -- I've
17 been the Chair of the Florida Association of
18 Colleges and Universities in the past. I am
19 presently the Chair of the Independent Colleges
20 and Universities of Florida.
21 It is my concern that we as people that are
22 educators, who see the need of an educational
23 mission, public television, that we truly meet
24 the community needs.
25 We might explore, first of all, the
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1 necessity and the urgency of serving -- getting
2 that station on its feet right now. There is
3 much to be done.
4 I have three full-time people working
5 there -- have actually been working full-time
6 since December -- getting that on its feet,
7 first of all.
8 The second phase for me would be to work
9 with my colleagues in south Florida to -- to see
10 if, in fact, a consortium of higher educational
11 institutions can be put together. I believe it
12 can. That was one of my first discussions --
13 Mary will remember -- that, in fact, it is -- it
14 belongs to the people, and the higher
15 educational community could respond.
16 That could be done on size of institution
17 assets, and the liabilities that would be
18 legitimately claimed.
19 Barry has been a public servant for
20 57 years. We have a variety of contracts with
21 the State. We've been honorable citizens. We
22 continue to play that role, and will continue to
23 play that role.
24 It is my concern that we not spend great
25 time and energy on the what-ifs and things that
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1 would block moving forward to serve the people.
2 The -- if we lose the station, the
3 Treasure Coast will not be able to get one
4 back. We have to keep this healthy until some
5 of these decisions are decided, and that worries
6 me.
7 I think there was some mention that the FTE
8 would certainly -- would suffer from
9 Florida Atlantic. There is no way that
10 Barry University, or any private institution,
11 can truly compete with -- or diminish a State
12 university.
13 When the State underwrites the public
14 student for 7,000, and seventeen for the
15 private; and I have to raise 80 percent to get
16 some -- a student through school, and the State
17 has to raise 20 percent, we're just not in the
18 same ballpark.
19 But we are in the same ballpark when it
20 comes to purpose. The purpose is quality
21 education, and community service.
22 And for me -- and I say this with great
23 reverence -- for me, it is essential that this
24 station serve the public and do the best public
25 good.
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1 But I don't see how we can continue not
2 making a decision or going forward, and have
3 this a viable -- one of the best public
4 televisions in the state. It would be a unique
5 opportunity for the higher educational
6 community.
7 And the ones that would benefit in the end
8 would be the members of this community.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you very much,
10 Sister Barry. I want to compliment you, and --
11 and Barry University, for stepping up to the
12 plate. I understand you've put about $750,000,
13 maybe more than that in time and effort, to keep
14 the station afloat and to keep it going, and
15 that is a tremendously valuable service.
16 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: It's vital.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: And we compliment you for
18 that. And that's something that y'all did.
19 I've listened carefully to what you said.
20 And -- and I think that there are two things
21 that we're sort of talking about here, maybe.
22 Maybe more than that. But one is the legality.
23 I'm -- have not had any chance to examine this.
24 I'm handicapped with a law degree, but haven't
25 used it very much in a long, long time.
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1 But there may be a situation where it is
2 perfectly legal for this transfer or this
3 accommodation to be made in which Barry steps
4 into that.
5 I think from the standpoint -- and I've
6 listened again to your --
7 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- saying that we need to
9 move forward in this. We cannot sit and wait a
10 long time.
11 This is sort of a first impression, in
12 spite of all the notice that might have been in
13 the paper down in Palm Beach, and some of the
14 notice of the annual meeting. It's -- I think
15 it's first impression to me in the last few days
16 that I've heard about it -- I think to most of
17 the members of the Cabinet -- we do sit as the
18 State Board of Education as policymakers, and we
19 have a fiduciary responsibility by virtue of the
20 offices we hold, for that six million plus
21 dollars of public money that has been placed
22 into this.
23 And so a decision to be made about this, we
24 would certainly be -- not be following our
25 responsibility if we were not a part of that
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1 decision. So that is something that I think
2 that -- you know, that we must be a part of.
3 I listened also to, you know, what you were
4 talking about, and to everybody, about the need
5 to have the local support and the strength of
6 the local support. And that is not only
7 necessary for a public television, but that's
8 what the public television is all about,
9 serving --
10 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- that very thing, and
12 that partnership that you have. And the station
13 has enjoyed that, and a lot of local support
14 over the years.
15 It would seem to be that bringing
16 Palm Beach Community College, Indian River
17 Community College, Florida Atlantic, FIU, along
18 with Barry, would be one of the ways of trying
19 to strengthen. And I guess it was
20 Broward Community College, along with it -- to
21 make sure that you even strengthen that bond and
22 you just have more people supporting.
23 I think this is something that should not
24 wait around. And I think if you -- I heard you
25 say something about people stepping up to the
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1 plate and taking their share based on their
2 assets.
3 You're probably well beyond your share
4 right now. And anything that you -- that
5 Barry University has placed up, it would only be
6 fair if -- if everybody steps up, or if Barry is
7 made whole for any efforts that they've made.
8 But it would just seem to me that we would
9 have maybe a win-win situation out of this if we
10 could bring all of these parties together.
11 You've performed, and the university has
12 performed a leadership role. I think you should
13 continue to be in a very, very leadership and
14 important role of any consortium that is set for
15 this.
16 But I would hope that within some short
17 period of time, that somebody could tell us,
18 this would come back to us, and -- and we could
19 go look at this again.
20 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: I would not even
21 continue, Governor, had I thought there was
22 anything that -- well, but legal.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Uh-hum.
24 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: And I've had six very
25 fine lawyers involved, as has WXEL. And so that
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1 to me is -- we must get on with it.
2 And it -- in order to serve that community
3 well, we cannot halt and just say, well, it will
4 stand there. It will not. I agree with you,
5 the process has to go on.
6 However, I think it should be the intent,
7 as the process goes on, that it would be the
8 higher educational community, and I think we
9 have to look at the public school system also,
10 that it truly has an educational mission. That
11 is --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: I agree.
13 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: -- why they came to us
14 in the beginning, because they wanted to look at
15 that educational mission and community service.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Uh-hum.
17 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: We have done that,
18 we've had a record of it. The 57 years, as you
19 said, speak for itself.
20 I'm just grateful for the possibility and
21 the dialogue. I continue to marvel how blessed
22 we are as a country that people with a problem,
23 or something that concerns the community, that
24 we are privileged to come before the highest
25 authority in the state, and make a statement.
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1 And that -- that's something that, if
2 nothing else, I have learned very well. And I
3 really appreciate that very much.
4 Thank you.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor?
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
8 First I want to thank Sister Jeanne and
9 Chancellor Reed, and the others who have spoken
10 to this issue.
11 I agree, this is -- as characterized by the
12 General -- one of the first opportunities that
13 all of us have had the chance to speak about
14 this, and hear about this in a public forum, and
15 I think that's very healthy. And I appreciate
16 people coming forward on the issue.
17 I think, as our General Counsel discussed
18 earlier, and the Governor picked up on later, we
19 actually have, as State Board of Education, two
20 roles that we play in this particular
21 undertaking. One is a fiduciary responsibility
22 based on the expenditure of public funds; and
23 making certain, number two, that as the lessor
24 of this facility, we are satisfied, as
25 apparently is required in the lease agreement,
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1 regardless of who is on the other side of the
2 lease agreement, that the entity which holds
3 that lease with us fulfills an educational
4 mission.
5 I think also, as the Governor suggested,
6 ultimately the legal minds will continue to
7 probe and poke and look at this potential
8 arrangement to satisfy themselves it is within
9 legal bounds as far as the arrangement is
10 concerned.
11 The State Board's role, as I understand it,
12 would ultimately be determined at the level of a
13 lease-lease arrangement. And our responsibility
14 to be satisfied that, again, whether it is
15 Barry Tel., or a consortium, or whatever it ends
16 up being in the long run, meets the obligation
17 set out in that lease arrangement, which
18 requires that the leaseholder, or the lessee
19 provide that educational mission.
20 And I think that, as this thing moves
21 forward, and ultimately when it comes back to
22 the State Board of Education, our responsibility
23 will be more narrowly focused on the issue of
24 lessor-lessee, and the caveats that we're
25 required to see are fulfilled. And I think
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1 that's an appropriate role to play.
2 And, General, you are an attorney, and I
3 know that you -- you are working on this issue
4 as well.
5 But we thought it was important to bring
6 this forward to the Cabinet today, based on the
7 lease arrangement, but also to give all of us an
8 opportunity to hear a little bit more about
9 those things that we've been reading and those
10 things that we've been hearing.
11 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: Barry Tel., the -- is
12 really the structure, and Barry University is
13 the only member. But it is the structure
14 requested whereby editorial freedom would be
15 guaranteed. And that was the reason for that
16 structure.
17 That was one commitment that was made, and
18 you will notice that in the document.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yeah, if I can just
20 follow-up real quickly.
21 I think that in much of what I've read,
22 some of the members of the press -- and I
23 understand why -- are a little confused over the
24 State Board's role in all of this. They suggest
25 that the State Board has the ability to derail
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1 this if, in fact, we believe that it is an
2 illegal arrangement.
3 And, again, I -- what we're trying to do
4 today is put the State Board in its appropriate
5 role as far as having people understand on the
6 State Board, but more importantly, have others
7 understand in a public forum, that our ability
8 to -- to either see this arrangement
9 consummated, or our ability to see this
10 arrangement move in a different direction --
11 and, General, please help me if you think I'm
12 wrong -- is based solely on our lessor-lessee
13 arrangement and the caveat that requires an
14 educational mission of whoever holds that lease
15 with us in a legal arrangement.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah.
17 I think that it's -- that's primarily -- but
18 there are other aspects of the lease, and other
19 legalities which -- which have to be totally
20 looked at.
21 But I think that the -- what this Board
22 wants to do in our fiduciary relationship,
23 I think, is -- is very important. And I know
24 the Legislature probably had a certain intent
25 when they -- when they, in essence, appropriated
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1 the money to go in this direction.
2 But there are many things we'll be looking
3 at, working with -- with your office, your legal
4 staff, the legal staffs of the State Board, as
5 well as -- as, of course, Barry and WXEL, and
6 also the -- the University System.
7 And hopefully -- I agree with the Sister,
8 this thing cannot sit for a period of time.
9 This thing has to keep moving. And perhaps we
10 should agenda it again for our next meeting
11 where we may or may not be able to take final
12 action.
13 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: Just a point of
14 information. The consultant who was hired in,
15 I believe, October by WXEL has finished the
16 report, and we would get that to you.
17 The basic thing that -- that he found is
18 that support of the community is there. So that
19 was of interest to us.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a general -- an
21 agreement conceptually that we would like to
22 have this matter come back before us at the next
23 meeting, which will be in March, and see if that
24 time -- let's see -- announce that meeting.
25 That would be March --
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: The 11th.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- the 11th.
3 And to see if -- if by that time, we can
4 have a better understanding, and that if during
5 that time, the -- the parties can have a chance
6 to see if they can get together and bring us a
7 conceptual plan.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Can I ask a question,
9 Governor?
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And it's opinion,
12 General.
13 When would -- and I agree, we should come
14 back at the next meeting.
15 Is what we would be taking action on at
16 that meeting then what I -- what I understand to
17 be the case, that we would, as the State Board,
18 be asked to take an official position on the
19 lessor-lessee arrangement, and whether or not we
20 do believe that there is an educational mission
21 that would be met by the entity?
22 Or is there a larger question that this
23 Board would have to take up? That's where I
24 become a little unclear.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think
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1 that's primarily our fiduciary relationship,
2 make sure it stays educational, make sure it
3 stays not-for-profit, make sure it stays in
4 the -- in public education.
5 But the -- I believe the Governor has
6 stated, in the next couple of weeks, I'm sure,
7 Barry and the State University System, the
8 community colleges, as well as the Boards of
9 Education -- at least definitely of
10 Palm Beach -- will want to have their input,
11 because they are part of the educational system,
12 they -- they have an investment, and WXEL, they
13 don't want to see diminished either.
14 So it'd be important to hear from all of
15 them, and then determine what we believe is the
16 best thing for the -- our fiduciary
17 responsibility in accordance with the laws of
18 the State of Florida, and with the contract.
19 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: Are you saying then
20 that I should not do anything at this point?
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think
22 that --
23 Governor, I don't know. I mean, the
24 station has to be run. And I think, as the
25 Governor has stated, is -- that you did come in
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1 at a point in time when the station was in
2 need.
3 As you've done now with the TV station, but
4 with so many things, so many of us are so
5 familiar with over the years.
6 And many of us agree when they featured you
7 on Dan Rather, that they definitely featured the
8 best Floridian they possibly could have featured
9 as -- as a great American.
10 And I personally have no problem with
11 continuing what you're doing right now. But --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I think not only
13 continue, I think -- I think we're expressing
14 our -- our support, and literally our word that
15 we don't intend to have you suffer a great
16 financial hardship because of -- because you've
17 stepped up as a Good Samaritan, and you've
18 invested your time and your money in this
19 project --
20 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: It's just so important
21 to the people of that community, and I just want
22 to make sure that we're clear that the people
23 not suffer because of some nits and grits and
24 periods.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think that's exactly
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1 our intent.
2 And I -- and I would hope -- and
3 I thank you for your -- your very, very kind
4 words of the action that is taken sometimes up
5 here by the Governor and the Cabinet in public
6 policy issues, we wish it was all the time.
7 But regardless of the pure legal aspect of
8 this thing, it seems to me, if you can bring
9 together a plan that has the blessings of the
10 State Board of Education, which maybe carries
11 with it further PECO funding when necessary, or
12 other public funding, as well as hopefully,
13 you know, some certification that would receive
14 public support, that that would be very helpful
15 to this station as it goes forward in the
16 future, carrying out its public mission,
17 you know.
18 SISTER O'LAUGHLIN: Thank you, Governor.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
20 DR. BEDFORD: Now if I could return to
21 Item 1.
22 Item 1 is the quarterly reports for
23 October 1st through December 31st.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, they're approved.
4 DR. BEDFORD: Item 2 is the FIRN purchase
5 order for Information Systems of Florida,
6 Incorporated.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 DR. BEDFORD: Item 3 is the Readiness for
12 College Report. I will give a very -- very,
13 very brief report.
14 We'll use the transparencies. I believe
15 this is the fourth time I've come before you
16 with this report.
17 The news that I have this year, of course,
18 you've all, I hope, received a green book that
19 looks similar to this. The charts I will be
20 using are from that book. And I'll give you a
21 very brief synopsis of the 1995 high school
22 graduates.
23 These are the first-time attendees. These
24 are graduates of Florida public schools that
25 attend Florida public community colleges or
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1 universities.
2 The very first slide that we will show you
3 is a continuation of a general downward trend in
4 the percentage of readiness in all areas. On
5 the slide and in your book, you will see the
6 numbers that indicate the percentages ready in
7 math, writing, and reading. And you will notice
8 that all of them have gone down. And the
9 readiness in all areas stands at 54.1 percent.
10 I'll come back and visit that slide in just
11 a second, as we go on and take a look at
12 readiness by area and institution type.
13 As we talked last year, the readiness of
14 the university students. And if you'll go
15 across and look at readiness of the State
16 University System in math, writing, reading, you
17 will find that they are at 95.6, 95.1, and 96.3;
18 and in all areas, 91.5.
19 On the other hand, if you will go across
20 and look at the community college readiness, the
21 readiness in math was 56.4, the readiness in
22 writing was 61.6, the readiness in reading was
23 66.5. But the overall readiness in all areas
24 for community college entering freshmen was
25 37.1 percent.
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1 The next slide will --
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thirty-seven point
3 one percent --
4 DR. BEDFORD: Were ready in all areas.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- were ready in all
6 areas.
7 DR. BEDFORD: Were ready in all areas,
8 reading, writing, and mathematics.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: So really there were --
10 then 63 were not ready.
11 DR. BEDFORD: That's correct. That is
12 correct.
13 The next transparency looks at ethnicity.
14 The American Indian is a bit of an anomaly in
15 that it's -- a very small number of test takers
16 have a tremendous influence on the percentage,
17 because the base number is very low. That was
18 an increase to 54.9 percent. Asian students,
19 exactly the same, 59 percent the last two years;
20 black was a decrease from 35.2 percent ready to
21 35.0; Hispanics decreased to 37.5; white
22 decreased to 63.6.
23 Generally, if we were looking through this
24 data, you would find that whichever area you
25 look at, there was, in fact, a decrease.
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1 The next transparency is by gender. If we
2 look at gender, we would find that all of the
3 areas reflect a decrease. A generalized
4 statement would let you assume that females
5 achieved at a lower rate in math, females
6 achieved at a higher rate in writing, and
7 females achieved at a lower rate in reading.
8 And those are fairly consistent with what each
9 year's data has shown.
10 If we could put the first slide back up,
11 Colleen, the one that shows the overall --
12 The overall readiness tested is one that is
13 probably used by the press most in the articles
14 that they have written. And it is the one that,
15 indeed, shows that only 54 percent of the total
16 graduates that attended public community
17 colleges, or public universities were, in fact,
18 ready in all areas.
19 And I know you've heard a lot about the
20 amount of money it takes in remediation, and
21 I think the Commissioner has put forth several
22 programs to correct this situation, and that is
23 our pledge.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- just some
2 comments. These are for 94-95. We hope --
3 DR. BEDFORD: Right.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- we're going to see
5 some changes over the next couple of years.
6 But let me say, first of all, that as, no
7 doubt you are -- and I'm not trying to speak for
8 the members of the State Board of Education, but
9 I'll -- I'll speak for myself -- I continue to
10 be -- I continue to marvel at the incredible
11 number of students who require mediation in
12 basic reading, writing, and mathematics.
13 What scares me worse, Governor, is the fact
14 that these are the students who aspire to any
15 kind of a postsecondary education, whether it's
16 community college or university.
17 I then have to consider those who are not,
18 and where they might be, in terms of their
19 ability to read, write, or calculate
20 mathematically at what is about a 10th grade
21 level, as gauged by the college placement test.
22 And I think it simply begs that this state
23 get serious about many of the changes that you
24 all have supported up here as the State Board of
25 Education in implementation. If -- as I've said
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1 to the press on this issue, if these statistics
2 don't scream urgency, I don't know what will.
3 I am given hope by virtue of the fact --
4 and I appreciate your support on these
5 initiatives -- that we're now infusing the
6 Sunshine State Standards, and the new Florida
7 Comprehensive Assessment Test.
8 I'm given hope that we are now
9 standardizing the college placement test, and
10 the cut scores, as you recall that we brought to
11 you some months ago, which I think will give a
12 much clearer picture to K through 12 as to
13 exactly what's expected of a youngster who hopes
14 to go on to any sort of a postsecondary
15 education.
16 We have now moved the college placement
17 test just this year down in a voluntary basis to
18 the high school level so that students who are
19 considering any sort of a postsecondary
20 educational experience will have the opportunity
21 to begin to feel what that test is all about,
22 and schedule accordingly.
23 We are moving again this year to increase
24 the graduation requirements in the state of
25 Florida proportionately from the 1.5 to a 2.0;
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1 require Algebra I, remembering that many of the
2 students who are doing poorly on the math
3 portion of this test have never seen Algebra I,
4 or its equivalent, much less be able to pass it
5 on a test.
6 We're beginning to not only constrain the
7 number of Level I courses that students can take
8 in high school, which are those functional
9 remedial courses, but we are looking to change
10 the course code directory where we're actually
11 going to eliminate a good number of Level I
12 courses from availability, and require that
13 those who are enrolled in Level I courses do so
14 with the approval of their parents, so their
15 parents will understand exactly what those
16 Level I courses will provide.
17 We're working with the Legislature this
18 year on a college ready diploma; reading
19 requirements, especially at the elementary and
20 middle school levels to see to it that students
21 don't make it to high school without the ability
22 to read on grade level. On and on.
23 So I -- I just -- I want to tell you that
24 while I continue to be depressed by the college
25 readiness report year in and year out, I also
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1 simultaneously want to commend you, and also the
2 members of the Legislature, for supporting what
3 I believe are some very drastic, but long
4 overdue actions, to hopefully see this thing
5 turn around in the very near future.
6 Because there is a tremendous urgency to
7 this, not only financial, with the amount of
8 money we're putting into remediation, but more
9 importantly, making certain that there is a
10 certain amount of truth in advertising here that
11 when a youngster does graduate from high school,
12 they are leaving with the skills that will
13 either allow them to go successfully to the
14 world of work, or on to postsecondary education,
15 ready to compete, without having to face more
16 and more and more remedial activities in basic
17 reading, writing, and math.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: We -- I just wanted to
19 mention, and I -- I concur in what you say,
20 about we hope there are some steps that we have
21 already taken with the Sunshine State Standards,
22 with the standardized testing, with all of those
23 steps that we're taking that you've cited that
24 are going to change these numbers.
25 But my concern is, what kind of testing do
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1 we have -- what kind of acknowledgment do we
2 have at this stage of whether a child is ready
3 to enter into the 1st grade, or to
4 kindergarten?
5 Because I think, again, our attention is on
6 the remediation, the steps that we take in
7 high school, even in middle school.
8 But if we aren't starting with a healthy
9 product to start with, I think we can do all of
10 these things, and we will, and I still don't
11 think we'll see much in the way of change if we
12 don't start in the beginning.
13 I think we're now seeing the whole ball
14 game is through zero to five. Everything's laid
15 down. All the wiring, all the circuits, all of
16 the brain is laid out during that time. That,
17 I think, is where Florida is still missing.
18 I would like to see us, if we really want
19 to look and see where we are, and what we should
20 be doing, that we would have the kind of numbers
21 that would tell us at kindergarten, or at the
22 1st grade where we are, and maybe that would
23 help us get some of the public support that
24 we're going to have to have to get children
25 ready to learn. It's --
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That's right,
2 Governor --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- part of our
4 Goals 2000, it's part of our plan. But in spite
5 of being on the paper, there's daggum little
6 we're doing about it when we see we're 47th, and
7 what we're doing for our children.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That's an excellent
9 point. And we are taking steps to try to
10 provide those numbers. For years we have pumped
11 a great deal of money into readiness programs
12 around the state, prekindergarten being one.
13 But, we have, I think, failed to determine
14 via numbers whether those youngsters are
15 actually coming to kindergarten better prepared
16 as a result of having gone through those
17 programs. I think globally, we all believe
18 that's the case.
19 But what we're trying to do now is create a
20 consistency of reporting so that the
21 kindergarten teachers, via observations of
22 certain skills, will be able -- be better in a
23 position to really consistently determine if,
24 in fact, these programs are meeting the needs of
25 the children that they serve, and the money that
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1 we spend.
2 Because I agree with you, Governor, if,
3 in fact, you take a youngster who walks into
4 kindergarten already three grade levels, or
5 three years chronologically behind their peers,
6 you're constantly trying to play a game of
7 catch-up.
8 And I think as we do spend money in
9 Headstart, and money in prekindergarten, and
10 money in some of the other readiness programs,
11 while we have somewhat shunned, I think,
12 accountability with those programs as to whether
13 they were doing what it is we hoped they would
14 do, we've got to start to embrace that and make
15 certain that, indeed, those expenditures --
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, it's --
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- in terms of --
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- not only --
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- having that --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- accountability, we've
21 shunned the availability. If you look at -- see
22 the percentage of our kids that are actually in
23 prekindergarten, you know, that are served that
24 way; and the ones that aren't served are the
25 ones that most desperately need that service, as
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1 well as the -- the nurturing and remediation or
2 that support that they would have prior to the
3 time they even go to that -- they're four years
4 old.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I also have the
6 ability -- or the opportunity to sit on the
7 Wages Board, Work Force Development, child care
8 and readiness programs I think are about to get
9 a new focus, I hope, in this state, with not
10 only State, but Federal dollars, in terms of
11 some of these activities, to make certain that
12 more youngsters get what it is that they need.
13 But I -- I really believe that while you're
14 right, this is at the end of the game as far as
15 statistics, it's a systemic problem that we
16 face, and one that starts from the day they walk
17 in the door, and then works its way throughout
18 the system to the day they walk out, either
19 prepared or not prepared.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: It starts the day they're
21 born.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I would like to
23 associate myself with the remarks of the
24 Governor.
25 And I'd like to also compliment the
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1 Commissioner of Education on offering leadership
2 and moving us in the right direction.
3 Having said that, I'm wondering if we
4 should brace ourself, Frank, next year that
5 we're going to have a requirement of a higher
6 passing score on the placement test that's going
7 to take effect.
8 So is not what we're going to see on the
9 chart a year from now a continual decline?
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, there's a
11 couple of variables involved in these numbers.
12 One, I'm told there was a higher number of
13 students who took this test.
14 Psychometricians --
15 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
16 room.)
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- will tell you that
18 that typically will give you a decrease in
19 scores, just because you have a higher test
20 pool.
21 When we get the bulge, which is the great
22 boom of students who are going to move to
23 community college and university over the next
24 several years that you hear people like
25 Chancellor Reed talk about, we can expect an
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1 even larger test pool, which means that we may
2 see a continual decline.
3 But back to what you're saying, indeed, as
4 we've standardized the college placement test
5 scores, and actually in some ways, in a few of
6 those scores, increase the rigor to, I believe,
7 where it needs to be, there is the potential
8 that at least in the short-term, we're going to
9 see some numbers that we may want to brace for.
10 It's a little like the F-CAT. We're giving
11 a test that we hope will be an accurate
12 reflection of what children had better be able
13 to do to be successful in the 21st century. But
14 that doesn't mean you shouldn't brace for the
15 initial results, and use those results so that
16 you can change your program to help increase the
17 results over time.
18 DR. BEDFORD: One item that we hope will
19 help, I think about 55 counties have changed to
20 Algebra I requirement. And that -- once we get
21 that statewide, we think that will really help,
22 too.
23 The next item is Item 4. Item 4, we are
24 asking to have withdrawn.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Do you need a motion
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1 on that, Governor?
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: I'll take one.
3 Motion to withdraw.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a second?
6 Without objection, it's withdrawn.
7 DR. BEDFORD: That concludes the State
8 Board of Education business.
9 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
10 concluded.)
11 *
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Now, we'll go
2 back and then --
3 DR. BEDFORD: State Board of Career Ed.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Oh, right. Yes.
5 All right. We'll take up the Career Education.
6 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
7 room.)
8 DR. BEDFORD: State Board of Career
9 Education. Item 1, minutes of the meeting
10 held --
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes --
12 DR. BEDFORD: -- November 7th --
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- Governor.
14 DR. BEDFORD: -- 1997.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Minutes are moved.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.
18 Without objection, they're approved.
19 DR. BEDFORD: Item 2, the 1996 annual
20 report by the Florida Education and Employment
21 Council for Women and Girls.
22 We have Colonel Ronald Joe -- Ronald Joe,
23 Chairman, Florida Education and Employment
24 Council for Women and Girls.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And I'll move
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1 approval for --
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- discussion.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
5 moved and seconded.
6 We'll hear from the Colonel.
7 DR. BEDFORD: He had such great success
8 last year, he's ready again.
9 COLONEL JOE: Good morning, Governor,
10 Board. It's a pleasure to -- to be here this
11 morning.
12 First of all, I'm on the Board again by
13 appointment, now retired and living in
14 Tallahassee, working at Florida A&M University
15 as Director for Student Activities there.
16 And I'm presenting this report because at
17 the time that it was compiled, I was Chairman of
18 the Council.
19 Let me present two people who are here with
20 me to assist for the really hard questions if I
21 get any.
22 First of all, Dr. Carol Darling, who is the
23 Executive Director for the Council.
24 And then Ms. Barbara Gershman, who is the
25 Vocational Education and Gender Equity
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1 Administrator for Florida. And she is a part of
2 the Department of Education.
3 We represent the Council here today, and
4 it's a pleasure to be here to present this
5 Seventh Annual Report.
6 Just a little bit about the Council again.
7 It is a diverse Council; men and women on it; a
8 variety of occupations, from NASA scientists to
9 small business persons, educators, retirees, and
10 volunteers; there are blacks, whites, Hispanics,
11 Native Americans on board the Council, who are
12 from all regions of the state.
13 There are different political beliefs
14 across the Council, which makes for very
15 interesting discussions; and there's a variety
16 of economic and educational backgrounds on the
17 Council as well.
18 It was formed in May of 1989, and we are
19 appointed and serve at the pleasure of the
20 Commissioner.
21 The purpose of the Council is to foster a
22 public consciousness of the talents and plights
23 of women and girls in the state of Florida,
24 regardless of their age, their race, color,
25 creed, or handicapping conditions.
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1 We encourage girls and women to participate
2 in education and training that will lead to high
3 wage, or living wage jobs or occupations. And
4 we support women in taking leadership positions
5 in those roles.
6 I'd like to, on behalf of the Council,
7 thank personally again Commissioner Brogan for
8 his support to the Council, both last year, and
9 this year.
10 And I'd also like to thank
11 Mr. Joe Stephens, who is the Director of Applied
12 Technology and Adult Education for the
13 Department of Education, and is not here today.
14 First of all, I think I would be remiss in
15 not mentioning that we did put a report out last
16 year, and we showed it to you last year, and it
17 was on teen pregnancy; and to say to you that
18 that report enjoyed not only statewide support,
19 it also enjoyed national support.
20 We are still getting requests for copies of
21 that report, and still getting requests to do
22 television and other kind of interviews --
23 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
24 COLONEL JOE: -- to do that.
25 As a result of that report, we think that
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1 about seven pieces of legislation were offered,
2 and perhaps two -- at least two were passed.
3 And, therefore, the Council takes pleasure in
4 serving you and knowing that we did make a
5 difference.
6 As we went through and talked about, and
7 studied teen pregnancy, and looked for linkage,
8 and tried to decide where would we go from teen
9 pregnancy to this year's efforts for the Council
10 and this year's report, we bumped into the teen
11 pregnancy issue, and women, single head of
12 household, who were grappling with and locked
13 into the poverty cycle that teen families and
14 teen single mother family found themselves
15 involved in.
16 And we ran smack up against the reality
17 that not only Florida, but all states, were
18 about to undergo welfare reform, and look at
19 work force development.
20 And we decided to take a look at what the
21 implications for those pieces of legislation,
22 and that area would have on these women who are
23 living in our state, and their attempts to move
24 themselves to the work force.
25 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
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1 COLONEL JOE: This study that we're
2 presenting to you this morning, this report that
3 I'm presenting this morning, is Part I of a
4 two-year study.
5 As we looked at this area, we realized that
6 it's a big area. We can't get through it in one
7 year, and we're going to look at it over
8 two years.
9 This report is the first of that two-year
10 report. And so, even as I stand here speaking
11 today, we are having, throughout the state,
12 meetings with people involved in the work force
13 development, who are parts of wage boards, who
14 are women who are single head of households, who
15 are teen parents, and others involved in the
16 program, to look at the implications of people
17 moving to work force and getting to high wage
18 kinds of jobs as a part of doing that.
19 The report has 23 recommendations. I would
20 like to draw your attention to the report
21 itself. There is a copy at your desk there.
22 And I would first like to draw your
23 attention to the table of contents just to go
24 briefly, to show you how we have broken it up.
25 We have recommendations there on page 6.
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1 I've already said that there are 23 of them. On
2 page 14, we look at poverty rates, we look at
3 high wage jobs for economic security on
4 page 17.
5 We look at education and say that education
6 is key, and we did that beginning on page 24.
7 And we -- we offer a model for how education and
8 support surfaces can work in the attempt to move
9 people from welfare to a living wage, or a high
10 wage job situation.
11 And then finally, I draw your attention to
12 34, page 34, where we talk about understanding
13 women's poverty and welfare reform.
14 And particularly under there, it talks
15 about myths and realities. And I think that
16 offers some good reading, because, I think,
17 again, it's a good report to read.
18 Let me next ask you to look at page 6.
19 Page 6 begins our recommendations. And I'm
20 going to read, with your permission, just four
21 of those recommendations, and then I will talk
22 to them in -- in the concluding portion of my
23 report.
24 First of all, under recommendations on
25 policy planning and administration,
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1 recommendation number 1 says that it is
2 recommended that the State of Florida study the
3 impact of changes in welfare and work programs
4 in order to assure a sufficient safety net for
5 individuals and families who are unable to meet
6 the time limits, or who must return to public
7 assistance due to public or mental health
8 problems, or other hardships.
9 Next I would like to read for you
10 recommendation number 2, under recommendations
11 on education for high wage jobs. Still on
12 page 6, at the bottom of the page.
13 It is recommended that the time allowed for
14 an individual to enroll in remedial orientation,
15 or prerequisite courses, and to complete an
16 educational training or apprenticeship program,
17 be in the range of two to four years in order to
18 receive adequate training to enter a high wage
19 occupation.
20 Access to all educational and training
21 programs should be assured for all women,
22 regardless of any personal characteristic.
23 On page 7, under recommendations on
24 accountability, recommendation number 2: It is
25 recommended that demographic data be collected
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1 on every individual receiving services by
2 gender, race, ethnicity, age, disability,
3 marital status, and socioeconomic class.
4 And the final one that I would like to read
5 is recommendation number 6 under recommendations
6 on families and poverty.
7 And it reads: It is recommended that
8 provisions be implemented for subsidized
9 affordable quality developmental care for
10 children from birth to age three, and preschool
11 children -- and preschool for children above the
12 toddler age, which is essential for women's
13 participation in education, job training, and
14 work programs.
15 We are a Council, and so we don't take to
16 try to say whether work force development ought
17 to happen, whether Wages will or will not
18 succeed. We're looking at the safety net, will
19 it work; and then to make recommendations and a
20 study about what can we recommend to you that
21 will work as we attempt to move people from
22 welfare to work.
23 First of all, we think that what is most
24 important is that skills are important. We
25 think that education is important. We think
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1 that people who are moving from welfare to work
2 have to be educated, they have to be trained.
3 The wages bill says that we must work first.
4 Now, I know standing here that that may
5 be -- what I'm about to say may be a little bit
6 in discord. But the people that we've talked to
7 and interviewed said that when a worker comes to
8 them on the job, that individual needs to bring
9 certain social skills to the job.
10 So that, for example, if they're selling
11 hamburgers, I don't lose hamburger sales because
12 I've hired somebody that doesn't have the social
13 skills to be compatible with my customer across
14 the counter, if you will. They need work skills
15 that they should bring to the job.
16 The feeling is on the part of the people in
17 the field that two years really is not adequate
18 to have people trained, and particularly if you
19 have a vocational aspect of that training that's
20 required.
21 And we want to train them for a job that's
22 a living wage job that allows them to make
23 enough money that not only will we move them off
24 of welfare, but hopefully there is the
25 long-range goal of leaving them off of welfare
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1 for a long period of time.
2 I think that you all discussed a great deal
3 of that up here in just -- up here just a few
4 minutes ago. We need literacy. And if we're
5 having problems with people who are thinking
6 about going on to college and are going on to
7 junior colleges, what about those that are in
8 poverty, and when we're talking about moving
9 them from welfare to a job. They need -- they
10 need remedial training.
11 And there are those who use English as a
12 second language, who also need now training on
13 the English language before we can put them into
14 jobs that are going to be high wage jobs.
15 Now, I keep saying that. In a minute, I
16 want to make the connection why high wage
17 along -- or high paying jobs or living wage jobs
18 are important to us.
19 The second important thing for us to cover
20 here is that there needs to be a baseline
21 study. So our recommendation is that Florida
22 needs to gather data on the people that are
23 coming off of welfare.
24 Where are they going when they come off of
25 welfare, what is happening to them when they
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1 come off of welfare, are they staying off, are
2 they in a job, are they productive citizens, or
3 are they simply slipping somewhere out of the
4 net where no one knows what's going to happen to
5 them.
6 And this is especially important for female
7 single parent heads of household.
8 Now, next I will tell you what we ran into
9 and consider the great biggest portion of our
10 whole study to date. And that's a simple word
11 called child care.
12 It is occurring to us as we talk to people
13 throughout the state, that they can't do what
14 we're asking them to do with respect to moving
15 from welfare to a job without child care.
16 Child care is critical, because for the
17 single parent to go and work, she -- and we're
18 talking she, because that's the greatest
19 percentage here -- has to have someone to take
20 care of her child.
21 We have said in our report, the research
22 indicates that in an ideal situation, a family
23 should spend approximately 10 percent of their
24 income on child care.
25 In this welfare, minimum wage kind of
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1 environment that we're talking about, we see
2 situations in the research where as much as
3 60 percent of a family's income is required for
4 that family to be able to put their children in
5 child care.
6 Envision with me for a few minutes a single
7 head of household. And let's say that it's a
8 woman. And let's say that this woman needs to
9 go to work because Wages says go to work, and it
10 says, go to work first.
11 Let's make her a single parent, let's make
12 her a mom, let's say she needs social skills --
13 skills, let's say she needs education. She
14 needs a living wage so that she can pay the
15 child care bill if she possibly can.
16 Let's let her have an infant. And let's
17 just pretend that that infant is, for example,
18 three months old, which one of the bills says
19 that if you get a three-month old infant, then
20 it's okay for you to go to work.
21 The Tallahassee Democrat on
22 February the 20th had an article, and that
23 article was titled: One Less Day Care Center,
24 One More Worry for Parents. And they talked
25 about parents in the State system who are -- who
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1 are employed by the State. Not welfare moms.
2 And just one excerpt from -- from that
3 article said this: Six of the children are
4 infants, which hardly any commercial child care
5 center has space for.
6 So even if we do all the other things that
7 we want to do, child care is sparse. If there
8 are infants involved, it costs even more for an
9 infant to be taken care of.
10 And then let me paint you two more issues
11 with this same person. Let's say that she has
12 more than one child.
13 We ran into a lady in Tampa, Florida, on
14 Friday of last week -- I hope it was Friday --
15 Thursday or Friday of last week, who I would say
16 was atypical in all regards.
17 She was a white mom; she had eight
18 children; she did nontraditional work, she was a
19 construction worker; she got herself educated to
20 go do it. And to sit and listen at the woes and
21 the difficulty -- because she was committed to
22 get off of welfare and get herself to a job.
23 But to listen at the woes and all of the
24 hard work it took to get there. Because, now,
25 in addition to needing child care, as a
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1 nontraditional worker, she needed special child
2 care so if there are clinicals you have to go
3 to, if there's work that has to be done off duty
4 hours, if there's vocational training to be
5 done, if there's remedial training to be done,
6 then the child care was all the more important.
7 Now, I sort of waddled around that a little
8 bit, but I want to make the point then -- and
9 the report makes some recommendations -- that
10 key to getting people from welfare to work, and
11 the finding of our committee, is the issue of
12 child care.
13 And, Governor and Commissioner, you said it
14 a few minutes ago. It's really key from zero,
15 if you will, to the time we put them in early
16 education.
17 And we -- we've got some research that
18 talks about, you know, what happens if you don't
19 have quality child developmental care, because
20 if those kids don't get it then, then they end
21 up at 1st grade or kindergarten, and then the
22 system has to -- has to struggle with them later
23 on.
24 And my final point is one of -- and I know
25 you're aware of it -- maintaining a diversity in
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1 the Boards that you have appointed throughout
2 the state to look at this issue, a diversity in
3 terms of women there in roles of leadership.
4 You've already recognized that, and I know you
5 are conversing with the local Boards on that.
6 But we think it's very key with women being
7 such an important part of this issue, that
8 women -- women be present and be represented in
9 leadership roles on local and state wage boards.
10 Subject to -- to your questions, that is
11 our Seventh Annual Report, and we look forward
12 to working on that project for the rest of the
13 year, and presenting a final report at the end
14 of the year.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- on behalf of my
18 colleagues, I would like to thank Colonel Joe
19 and the members of the Commission.
20 Just to let you know, he overcame a little
21 hardship of his own. He was called up to active
22 duty, General Milligan, during the course of the
23 Commission's work this year. So he actually
24 served in a dual capacity.
25 But we do appreciate, again, his leadership
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STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
77
1 on these issues, and the leadership that the
2 Commission brings. I think the findings, as
3 they did last year -- and the Colonel is
4 correct -- found their way into pieces of
5 proposed legislation. And I think there's every
6 reason to believe that, as I've already passed
7 these out to all the members of the Wages Board,
8 the Work Force Development Board, that there is
9 a tremendous amount of good information within
10 this document that will help us as the Wages,
11 Work Force Development Board at the state
12 level.
13 But most importantly, those regional
14 Work Force Development Boards, who are now
15 looking at the issues of welfare to work, and
16 making certain that people have appropriate
17 opportunities, not just for training,
18 retraining, and job placement, but also those
19 services such as transportation and --
20 COLONEL JOE: That's right.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- most certainly the
22 one we've discussed at greatest length on all of
23 these Boards is appropriate child care.
24 So we appreciate everything that you and
25 the members of the Commission continue to do for
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STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
February 25, 1997
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1 us, Colonel.
2 Thanks, Governor.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Colonel, I want to
4 thank you. I think it's a very, very strong and
5 very good report. I think -- just a couple of
6 points.
7 You spell out that we've passed a major
8 wages bill. It -- it was passed, assuming
9 certain things. I think to continue to look at
10 some of those dates in regard to whether
11 two years is enough, or four years, we need to
12 recognize that there was no exact science when
13 we did that.
14 What we really did, more than anything
15 else, was we blew up a system that didn't work,
16 that we knew didn't work, and we have put
17 something in place.
18 COLONEL JOE: Yes, sir.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: We need to be able to
20 fine-tune that. I thank you and your Board for
21 bringing this to our attention.
22 I hope you will continue with your Board to
23 look and bring us -- and bring the Legislature
24 back facts and information that show how we
25 should fine-tune this, number one.
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February 25, 1997
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1 Number two, I am just delighted to see the
2 emphasis that you've placed on affordable,
3 quality child care. Having said those words,
4 and I think they are the key, and if you talk to
5 any mom, you will find that that's the key.
6 They literally are an oxymoron right now --
7 COLONEL JOE: Yes, sir.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- to say that there is
9 such a thing as affordable, quality child
10 care --
11 COLONEL JOE: Yes, sir.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- for the vast majority
13 of our people.
14 Now, we have put in a big pot of money for
15 the wages day care. I would like to say that it
16 would be quality day care. I'm not sure of that
17 at all.
18 In fact, I doubt if it will be to start
19 with, but we need to continue to emphasize that.
20 I see good legislative support right now,
21 or recognition. And this report helps us give
22 the ammunition to continue that, that this is
23 essential. Without that, you don't -- wages
24 cannot progress.
25 COLONEL JOE: Yes, sir.
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February 25, 1997
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: I hope though that the
2 public will be mindful, and the Legislature
3 will, there are two pots of day care money. The
4 one for wages we're doing out of the monies that
5 we're getting from the Federal government and
6 the block grant. So that's not any sort of
7 taking money away from anything else.
8 In addition to that, in our budget, we put
9 in a large increment of money for the working --
10 subsidized day care for the working moms, to try
11 to carry that up to where we would cover
12 70 percent of the waiting list.
13 I'm sure it's like most waiting lists. If
14 you went to 100 percent, the waiting list would
15 probably be 7-- you know, very long again.
16 But, that piece is as important as the
17 piece for wages, because these are the moms that
18 are out there every day --
19 COLONEL JOE: Yes, sir.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- the lady that you're
21 talking about, in spite of all the adverse
22 conditions, they are trying to work, trying to
23 stay on the job. And if we don't do something
24 to help them, we're really shooting ourselves in
25 the foot, and the others. So that's very
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February 25, 1997
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1 important.
2 Thank you very much for --
3 COLONEL JOE: Yes, sir.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- and your Board, and I
5 hope you'll express our appreciation to them.
6 COLONEL JOE: Yes, sir. Thank you.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. We've had a
8 motion and a second.
9 Without objection, the report is accepted.
10 DR. BEDFORD: Thank you. That concludes --
11 (The State Board of Career Education Agenda
12 was concluded.)
13 *
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FISCAL ACCOUNTING INFORMATION BOARD
February 25, 1997
82
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Now we'll go
2 back then to the Fiscal Accounting Information
3 Board.
4 MR. YOUNG: Good morning, Governor, members
5 of the Cabinet. Martin Young, Secretary, Fiscal
6 Accounting Information Board. We have two items
7 before you.
8 Item 1 is the approval of the minutes,
9 November 19th, 1996.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
11 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MR. YOUNG: Item 2, approval of the 1996
15 famous annual report.
16 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I second it.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, that's approved.
20 MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Governor. That
21 concludes the agenda.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
23 (The Fiscal Accounting Information Board
24 Agenda was concluded.)
25 *
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
February 25, 1997
83
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of
2 Administration.
3 MR. HERNDON: Item number 1 is approval of
4 the minutes of the meeting held on January 28th.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, they're approved.
9 MR. HERNDON: Item number 2 is the initial
10 appointment and reappointment of two members of
11 the Investment Advisory Council.
12 TREASURER NELSON: Motion.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I second it.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, that's approved.
16 MR. HERNDON: Item number 3 is reports by
17 the Executive Director for the months of
18 December and January -- December '96 and
19 January '97.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, that's approved.
24 MR. HERNDON: That's completes the agenda.
25
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
February 25, 1997
84
1 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
2 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
February 25, 1997
85
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Division of
2 Bond Finance.
3 MR. WATKINS: Item number 1 is minutes of
4 the January 28th meeting.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection.
8 MR. WATKINS: Item number 2 is a report of
9 award of ten million two hundred forty-five
10 thousand University of South Florida Housing
11 Revenue Bonds.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, that's approved.
16 MR. WATKINS: I'd like to skip to Item 4 at
17 this point.
18 Item 4 is a report of award of bonds issued
19 on behalf of the Florida Housing Finance
20 Agency. The bonds were sold through negotiated
21 sale at the request of the Housing Agency in
22 November and December of 1986 for various
23 multifamily housing projects, and the results of
24 the sales are reported in Items 4 a) through f).
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
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February 25, 1997
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second Items a)
3 through f).
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
5 Without objection Items 4 through -- a)
6 through f) are approved.
7 MR. WATKINS: Going back to Item 3, it is a
8 report for the Florida Housing Finance Agency
9 that'll be presented by Susan Leigh. It covers
10 three things.
11 One is the competitive single family issue
12 that was executed in June of '96; the second is
13 an evaluation process for all multifamily
14 housing transactions; and thirdly, a report on
15 the preliminary financing plans for the single
16 family program for 1997.
17 Susan.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Is there a
19 motion on that?
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
22 And then we'll listen to the report.
23 Thank you, ma'am.
24 MS. LEIGH: Good morning.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
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February 25, 1997
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1 MS. LEIGH: As Ben said, it is a report on
2 three different items. The competitive bid
3 single family, which was actually done in
4 November of '96. And the Division made a report
5 at that time specifically on the sale of bonds
6 on that transaction, which was the first
7 competitive bid, single family transaction for
8 the Agency since 1982.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: That didn't blow up the
10 world?
11 MS. LEIGH: It didn't blow up the world.
12 It was a successful transaction from bid
13 perspective, and the citizens of Florida
14 received a competitive interest rate, the
15 Agency's programatic needs were accomplished,
16 and the competitive sale gave everyone the
17 comfort that no favoritism had occurred.
18 And I think if you've read the report, you
19 will see that everyone involved worked real hard
20 to make that successful.
21 There were several reasons though that this
22 was successful that are less evident than the
23 numbers that have been included in the report.
24 The Agency has a tremendous amount of
25 respect in the market. And for over 17 years,
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
February 25, 1997
88
1 without the benefit of the backing of the State
2 of Florida, through general obligation bonds,
3 we've structured transactions that have not only
4 paid for themselves, but have provided mortgages
5 for the citizens of this state that neither
6 could qualify, nor afford conventional loans.
7 Our clientele has been families at about
8 73 percent of the median income. We've served
9 over 200,000 families through the single family
10 home ownership program. And the reason we've
11 been able to do that is because of the private
12 sector partners that we've been working with.
13 We have Board members that have been
14 appointed and volunteer their time, lenders
15 across the state, investment bankers throughout
16 the United States, innovative bond and real
17 estate councils, advisor servicers, and a real
18 hard working staff. And the '96 transaction was
19 no different.
20 The bottom line that the Board had to
21 consider, more than just the sale of bonds, when
22 evaluating the real cost benefit of this
23 transaction, were other things. They had to
24 include staff time, professional time, the
25 overall up-front costs that had to be provided
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February 25, 1997
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1 in order to make this transaction work.
2 And the fact that this was the third time
3 that this particular structure had been in the
4 market.
5 It also had considered that this structure
6 that had been competitively bid had originally
7 been invented by a team of bankers in response
8 to a competitive RFP, issued by the Agency, but
9 that was a negotiated transaction.
10 No matter the transaction, all housing
11 deals must be structured to meet specific,
12 programatic, and economic needs. And there is
13 not one housing structure fits all.
14 I think the report speaks for itself. But
15 the conclusion of the single family report sums
16 up the feelings of the Board. The Florida HFA
17 believes that competitively bid, single family
18 mortgage revenue bond issues can be successfully
19 competitive bid on a selected basis.
20 There must be adequate allocation of
21 resources, and a resolution as to how to
22 continually access the creative talents of the
23 investment banking community and find a way to
24 compensate them.
25 I would ask you on behalf of the Agency
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1 Board, at the appropriate time, to accept this
2 report.
3 There is a lot of detail within the single
4 family. I think it's everything that everybody
5 asked us to look at, and you can look at those
6 numbers, as your staff had.
7 The second issue, which is Item B, is
8 because of the dialogue that was created in the
9 process of doing the single family transaction,
10 and because of some of the desires expressed by
11 each of you, and by your staff, the Board has
12 also authorized me to present a report developed
13 in conjunction with the Agency, the Division of
14 Bond Finance, their financial advisor, and the
15 Governor's office on a new process that will be
16 put in place for all new multifamily
17 transactions.
18 So we have done a competitive transaction,
19 we're looking at doing future -- we are now
20 looking at trying to do our multifamilies in
21 some similar fashion.
22 If approved today, it will provide the
23 Cabinet and the Agency with more comfort that
24 additional reviews have taken place from an
25 objective source on the recommendation,
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February 25, 1997
91
1 specifically on the method of sale of these
2 bonds.
3 Enclosed is the report that WR Lazard, who
4 is the financial advisor to the Division of
5 Bond Finance, has prepared.
6 It outlines a process by which the
7 financial advisor to the Division will review
8 all multifamily transactions early in the
9 evaluation process in order to recommend to the
10 Agency, and to the Cabinet, as to whether they
11 should be competitively bid, or should be done
12 through a negotiated transaction.
13 When the bond issue comes to the Cabinet,
14 it will come with our normal resolutions that
15 you will see on each of our transactions, but
16 also with a recommendation for method of sale
17 from the Division of Bond Finance's financial
18 advisor.
19 Within this report is also the first set of
20 recommendations from WR Lazard that the Agency
21 is utilizing for the initial seven transactions
22 for 1997.
23 The Board has also -- the Board believes
24 that this is an independent review, and at the
25 appropriate time would like the acceptance of
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February 25, 1997
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1 this report so that we can proceed using this
2 process for the coming year.
3 The Board has asked me to thank you for
4 your thoughtful consideration of this issue and
5 your concern that the State of Florida conduct
6 bond sales in a manner of which we all can be
7 proud.
8 Because of your interest, we have conducted
9 an exhaustive analysis of when to bid bonds,
10 when to negotiate bonds, and -- so that the best
11 economic deal is achieved and the public can
12 have faith in the integrity of the decision
13 making process.
14 Many bonds will now be bid. But when the
15 Agency and the Cabinet decide that bonds are to
16 be negotiated, we can all know that this
17 approach is being utilized, not because it is
18 the easier way, or because it is the old way,
19 but instead because it is the right way.
20 So I submit this report to you, and I'll be
21 happy to answer any specific questions on -- on
22 that.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question.
24 Well, we again want to thank you very much
25 for the report. Thank you for giving us an
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February 25, 1997
93
1 analysis of what has happened in the single
2 family provision that we -- that we did bid
3 competitively.
4 And thank you for the report of how you're
5 looking now at multifamily issues. I understand
6 that you're -- you think maybe at least three of
7 those could be bid competitively. I think
8 that's outstanding.
9 And I believe that -- that it is our wish
10 that we do it the right way. We did not feel
11 that we could not do some with competitive
12 bidding, and we wanted to see how that would
13 work. And y'all have worked very hard to do
14 that, the Board has.
15 We know that it is the past reputation of
16 the Board, and the work that they had done, that
17 allowed this to be received as it was by the
18 market.
19 I assume that in accepting the report, we
20 would be giving you the authority that you said
21 you felt you needed to proceed in that way.
22 Is that correct?
23 MS. LEIGH: Yes, sir, for the multifamily
24 especially --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: For the multifamily.
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
February 25, 1997
94
1 MS. LEIGH: -- because it is a new system.
2 And we want to know that that's something
3 that --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Well, I --
5 MS. LEIGH: -- meets your needs.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- I think that certainly
7 has our approval, our stamp of approval.
8 All right. We have a motion and a second.
9 And without objection, the report is
10 accepted, with our sincere thanks.
11 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
12 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
February 25, 1997
95
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of Highway
2 Safety and Motor Vehicles.
3 MR. DICKINSON: Governor and Cabinet, the
4 first item is approval of minutes for the --
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 MR. DICKINSON: -- January --
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
8 MR. DICKINSON: -- 28th --
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, the minutes are
11 approved.
12 MR. DICKINSON: Governor, with your
13 approval, I'd like to delay Item number 2 until
14 after our Item number 3 presentation. I think
15 it's -- probably follows that presentation
16 better than preceding --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
18 MR. DICKINSON: Item number 3 is a report
19 from the Department to the Governor and Cabinet
20 as requested by the Controller from your last
21 committee meeting.
22 There are two reports that came out in the
23 last year, the Johnson Controls report from last
24 January; and the OPPAGA report that was begun
25 last January, and was issued January of '97.
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DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
February 25, 1997
96
1 And our first presentation --
2 Yeah, we can see that pretty well.
3 -- really speaks to the Johnson Controls
4 report.
5 And I'd like to say that since February of
6 '96 when that report was released, we have been
7 working diligently to implement as many
8 recommendations as possible.
9 The field work supporting the report was
10 performed in the fall of '95, which was a
11 particularly critical time for us, as we were
12 implementing some of the reductions from the
13 1995 General Appropriations Act.
14 We do fully understand, and appreciate the
15 funding limitations available to Florida State
16 government, and are continuing to make every
17 effort to accomplish more with less, yet serving
18 our customers appropriately.
19 While there's still room for improvement,
20 the survey conducted by Johnson Controls did
21 state that we were on par with the customer
22 service level comparable to the commercial
23 business establishment in this state.
24 What I'd like to do is address this in four
25 parts: The operational part, organizational,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
February 25, 1997
97
1 financial, and technological.
2 And let me point out that in each one of
3 these areas, I think we've made significant
4 strides. And I've heard the quote, it's a
5 journey, not a destination; and we're certainly
6 on that path.
7 We feel positive in the direction we're
8 going. We have not reached our goals yet, but
9 we will strive to meet them.
10 Operationally, some of the complaints of
11 what was happening in '95 were that we had the
12 long lines. It was pointed out, we had some 5-
13 and 6-hour waits in southeast Florida.
14 Our facilities were run-down. There may
15 have been too many of them, poorly located, our
16 service level was certainly lacking.
17 Organizationally, we had too much middle
18 management. And we had a centralized decision
19 making process that sometimes was a little
20 cumbersome in getting our decisions made.
21 Financially, the Johnson Controls report
22 pointed out some savings that could be
23 accomplished through the merger. We also would
24 like to point out some departmental savings that
25 we've accomplished.
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DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
February 25, 1997
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1 And there were some comments in the report
2 about how heavy we were at the top of our
3 ladder. And we want to point out what that
4 personnel actually accomplish here in our
5 headquarters, and some of the information behind
6 what they do.
7 Technologically, we want to talk to you
8 about some state of the art things that we're
9 doing out there from the database rewrite, and
10 merging, to some applications.
11 The first thing we really tried to do was
12 address our access and availability.
13 We are now serving all customers that are
14 in our offices before closing time. Previously
15 at 6:00 o'clock --
16 General, you'll probably remember this.
17 -- whoever was in line, but not handled
18 were thrown out the door and asked to come back
19 tomorrow.
20 We've installed appropriate information --
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I don't
22 remember that, Fred. I don't remember that at
23 all.
24 MR. DICKINSON: We've installed appropriate
25 and informational signage at the offices, which
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DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
February 25, 1997
99
1 was one of the complaints of the
2 Johnson Controls report. And those are our
3 multilingual all over our state.
4 We had a parking issue, where the folks in
5 the offices were taking the prime parking
6 spaces, the employees. We've corrected that
7 situation.
8 We have provided Internet access to our
9 driver license information on our home page.
10 And I'm happy to say, we've had about
11 1.1 million visits in the last year to that
12 home page.
13 Additionally, we have implemented a mail-in
14 address change program where you don't have to
15 come into the office.
16 We've extended our service in a number of
17 areas. As you know, we're from Tuesday to
18 Friday shops in most areas. We've opened on
19 Monday in a number of areas. We now have nine
20 openings on Saturdays in the southeast corridor,
21 northeast, and central Florida. Those have been
22 positive.
23 We had one office that did close down,
24 because we just couldn't get the people in there
25 on Saturday. But we are looking to expand that
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DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
February 25, 1997
100
1 service.
2 I might point out that we have expanded
3 this service without any additional personnel --
4 in fact, with fewer personnel -- and we've done
5 it on a flex time. We've staggered our time.
6 So that's been a positive. We haven't spent
7 more money.
8 We also embarked on a program to increase
9 examiner efficiency and proficiency. We've
10 adjusted staffing to handle peak activity
11 periods during the day, and peak geographical
12 workloads.
13 We've isolated office telephone service so
14 it will not interfere with those people working
15 on the front desk.
16 In three counties in southeast Florida, we
17 have a separate phone bank for setting up
18 appointments.
19 And I will tell you that we borrowed a page
20 from the airlines. We're now double and triple
21 booking those appointments, because we had so
22 many no-shows.
23 So the biggest problem we're having right
24 now is you get an appointment a week or 10 days
25 in advance, you're actually able to go find a
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DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
February 25, 1997
101
1 walk-in appointment much quicker. So those are
2 the folks that are not showing up for their
3 appointments.
4 We've introduced customer screening to
5 identify situations for faster service, and we
6 have express lines for such things as change of
7 address and your straight renewal service.
8 And I'd mentioned, we improved utilization
9 of appointments to lessen our impacts on
10 no-shows.
11 We provided additional manpower by
12 temporary reassignment from positions of support
13 areas within the headquarters to the field.
14 We've reduced impact of turnover by
15 streamlining the employment process --
16 employment process, and maintaining a pool of
17 available applicants.
18 Basically we've got a pool available when a
19 vacancy arises, and it's a little quicker to
20 fill that vacancy than it once was.
21 We've provided more original applicant
22 processing productivity by group testing for
23 written and driving skills. We tried that when
24 we had the immigration situation from Cuba a
25 couple of years ago, and it's been a real plus.
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1 Basically we can use one or two examiners
2 to examine 50 or 60 people at a time, as opposed
3 to having one examiner one-on-one with those
4 people.
5 We have relieved overcrowding in some areas
6 by using the FLOWmobile, which is our Florida
7 Licensing on Wheels. That was arrived at as a
8 partnership through -- with PRIDE, who
9 refurbished the buses that were donated to us by
10 some of the school districts, as well as some of
11 our other partners.
12 We've utilized positions normally allocated
13 to nonlicensing activities to direct customer
14 service delivery, as time is available.
15 We have minimized the impact of our '95
16 budget req-- the budget reductions by
17 streamlining our record keepings function here
18 in headquarters.
19 The next item is our technology and
20 contracts for better service. We've implemented
21 a pilot credit card reinstatement fee via
22 telephone.
23 If you have a D6, you haven't paid your
24 ticket from out of state or out of county, you
25 can now call us, pay with a credit card your
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1 traffic ticket, and get reinstated.
2 It used to be you had to show up back at
3 that -- typically back at that court, or that
4 clerk of the court to pay that.
5 We've redistributed our computer equipment
6 to maximize productivity utilization --
7 productive utilization. We've worked with the
8 Department of Corrections to provide lawn and
9 facility maintenance.
10 We are also embarking on an operation with
11 the Department of Corrections where they answer
12 some of our phones for us. That's -- we're
13 working on the details of that right now, and we
14 hope to announce that soon.
15 This past week, we completed our third week
16 in the -- our installation of our 900 phone line
17 for renewals and address changes. I think the
18 numbers this morning -- we had about 1700 calls
19 so far in that short period of time.
20 They do not pay with a credit card, the
21 folks that utilize that service. They -- it
22 comes -- shows up on their phone bill. So it's
23 been a real productive situation with the phone
24 company that we've worked out there. And we
25 look forward to that expansion.
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1 We're also doing some implementation of
2 third party testing, for not only motorcycles,
3 but the Legislature this last session gave us
4 the authority to contract out for third party
5 testing for your driver license as well.
6 We have installed in the last year a
7 digitized license system, which is a faster
8 process, and enables us to take all that data
9 field, and send it anywhere in the world
10 instantaneously.
11 What does all this mean? Well, you can see
12 the waiting times. I don't know if you can read
13 them from up there. But in '95, fall of '95,
14 when the Johnson Controls report came out, they
15 stated that we had an average waiting time of
16 36 minutes; we had 5- to 6-hour waits,
17 particularly in the southeast corridor. And
18 that was not acceptable to anyone.
19 Last fall, which is one year hence, we sent
20 our internal audit team out to do a
21 comprehensive study. The average waiting time
22 was reduced to 15 minutes statewide, and our
23 longest waits, we had about 3 percent of the
24 people that were in line waiting to get to the
25 counter for an hour.
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1 We have sent our team out as -- as recent
2 as last week. We primarily looked at Pinellas,
3 Orange, Duval, and the southeast corridor. And
4 I'm happy to report to you that our average wait
5 time is down to 8 minutes statewide.
6 Our longest wait, we had no one in line for
7 an hour. I will tell you that there are times
8 after holidays, on Tuesdays, sometimes at the
9 lunch hour that we're also addressing in another
10 study right now, where you may have a little
11 longer wait. There are circumstances where you
12 dictate a longer wait. But I'm happy to report
13 that our average wait time is way, way down.
14 In fact, in just the last three months,
15 we've reduced by 6 minutes our average wait
16 time, which is a 25 percent reduction in
17 southeast Florida.
18 We have no more lines out the doors. And
19 if you don't receive service in that office
20 before closing, one of us is going to go down
21 there and handle the situation.
22 We also did surveys during our studies, as
23 did Johnson Controls. 96 percent of the people
24 surveyed held our employees at a very
25 knowledgeable -- or knowledgeable level,
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1 courteous or very courteous level, and our
2 facilities were clean.
3 We had adequate signage according to them,
4 including Spanish; and, of course, the parking
5 situation I referred to.
6 The other area of improved service is the
7 partnerships. As you may or may not be aware,
8 we were authorized last year to allow tax
9 collectors to now do driver licensing. And it's
10 a one-stop shop. They can do the driver license
11 and the tag or titling information for their
12 cars at the same stop.
13 We've got five collectors that are
14 currently handling that service for us. We have
15 five that are coming on-line within the next
16 several months.
17 We've got a little bit of equipment problem
18 right now that we're trying to work out.
19 I think that'll be solved pretty soon, and we
20 should be able to bring more and more on-line.
21 About 65 percent of the tax collectors are
22 interested in this.
23 As I mentioned, the partnership with
24 Department of Corrections seems to be working
25 out nicely. That's both in the maintenance
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1 area, as well as the answering of phones.
2 We have discussions going on with our
3 emissions vendors in those six nonattainment
4 counties where we do emissions testing about
5 taking over third party, not only testing, but
6 also driver licensing in their facility.
7 I want to shift to the organizational side
8 of the Johnson Controls report quickly. The
9 problem was too many layers.
10 We have taken action as of January of this
11 year. We have cut from seven to three layers in
12 the reporting cycle, or chain of command from
13 the driver license examiner, which is our field
14 representative; all the way to the director.
15 We went from, as I said, seven to three.
16 We cut out all of our assistant directors,
17 assistant bureau chiefs, regional, and assistant
18 regional administrators.
19 We have reassigned a number of people to
20 the field from not only headquarters, but also
21 those folks that were in the chain of command at
22 the field level that may have not been actually
23 in the customer service area, they were in
24 training, or in administration of some type.
25 I might add, we've also taken the bureau
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1 chiefs that handle field operations, which is, I
2 think, one of the largest bureaus in state
3 government, it's about 1,000 strong. We now
4 have -- the bureau chiefs are in the field.
5 Gainesville, Orlando, and Miami are the
6 homes for our new bureau chiefs as of last
7 month. It's an effort to try to push that
8 decision making out.
9 And we're trying to demonstrate to our
10 folks that, you know, we've got somebody out
11 there now that can give us your concerns.
12 And -- in a direct line, direct fashion.
13 This also follows in a pattern we've done,
14 if you'll remember, the Florida Highway Patrol,
15 the Director of the Highway Patrol now resides
16 in Miami. So -- and that has worked
17 beautifully.
18 I will tell you, with today's communication
19 and transportation links, I don't think we've
20 lost a thing.
21 But anyway, we have moved our bureau chiefs
22 to the field. Commensurate with that is our
23 decision to reassign some of these former
24 management decisions. And that was about 18 to
25 20, I believe, went to the front line.
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1 The next area that I'd like to address is
2 the financial impact. And this was really
3 critical to the report.
4 The Johnson Controls recommendation was to
5 close 140 offices, and open 60 super centers.
6 That was a negative -- would have saved
7 24 million dollars.
8 A technology enhancement, which would have
9 pumped 10 million dollars back in, and some
10 severance and buy-outs of our current leased
11 facilities, which would have been another
12 4 million dollars, estimated it would have cost
13 us.
14 They also suggested some privatization
15 efforts that would have saved us 10 million
16 dollars.
17 There were some additional cuts that came
18 from our 25 percent reduction exercise, as it's
19 been characterized in the Senate of a couple of
20 years ago, which brings the savings up to over a
21 ten-year period, 102 million dollars.
22 Now, we're all in this process of cutting,
23 trying to do more with less. I will tell you
24 that that is commensurate with what we have done
25 out there at Highway Safety. In that particular
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1 year that the report was formulated, we took
2 some 40 -- well, 4.2 million dollars and about
3 167 positions. Those were primarily from the
4 field.
5 We worked with the Governor's office and
6 OPB, and readjusted some 56 of our headquarters
7 people out there, which softened the impact on
8 the customer service that we're trying to offer.
9 The next item was also a 1.6 million dollar
10 savings of 53 FHP personnel. Those were
11 accomplished through the consolidation of our
12 radio dispatch function. We went from 43
13 offices to 29 offices statewide where we
14 currently dispatch.
15 We are working with the Department of
16 Transportation, and Tim Moore at the Department
17 of Law Enforcement. Tim's kind of spearheading
18 this thing on a consolidated dispatch for all
19 statewide law enforcement. And I think you'll
20 see some more savings in that area.
21 In addition, we have had some 38 million
22 dollars in cuts, and 237 positions over the last
23 eight years. And added up, that total over
24 10 years is 438 million that we should be
25 saving -- we will be saving -- we are saving the
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1 taxpayers, as we speak.
2 So the cuts discussed in the
3 Johnson Controls report, I think, are consistent
4 with what we have done, what we will continue to
5 do out at the Department.
6 The next chart we have will show you the
7 cut list that we have right now before the
8 Senate and the House. The Senate is primarily a
9 little stronger than the House position because
10 they asked for a straight 10 percent cut.
11 The House asked for a more generic, give us
12 your idea of where some of these cuts can been
13 realized, inefficiences in your Department.
14 They didn't have a target for us to reach.
15 There were some comments in the
16 Johnson Controls report about our headquarters
17 versus field personnel. We're about
18 70/30 field, 70 headquarters, 30 percent
19 delineated.
20 Our cuts distribution is more on a 60/40.
21 We've tried to, as I said, soften the burden,
22 soften the cut, soften the blow out in our field
23 offices.
24 Most support from the headquarters
25 positions accomplishes what other agencies are
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1 also about that are interested in highway safety
2 and public safety in general.
3 We have a number of people who are
4 dedicated to the Kirkman data center, as you
5 see, 225. That primarily provides information
6 to a number of agencies and their efforts to do
7 their job.
8 We have some 215 that are in the records
9 section. I will tell you, there's a -- I saw
10 Fred Baggett in here earlier. There's a joint
11 operation going on with the clerk of the courts
12 right now. And they are funding a backbone
13 network that will take the uniform traffic
14 citation system and condense it. So we should
15 be able to realize some savings there.
16 The next -- two of the next three items,
17 the registration -- people who handle the
18 registration from the tax collectors, as well as
19 the microfilm item on the bottom, will be
20 addressed in the final agenda item; the Peat,
21 Marwick report that was also suggested by the
22 OPPAGA report that'll also be talked about.
23 That will be handled there. It's a study
24 to look into our processes, and see if we can
25 maintain some efficiencies there.
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1 I won't go through the rest of these, but
2 you can see that these people are vital to what
3 our mission is out there. And I will tell you,
4 if we go through some cuts, we will have to get
5 the Legislature to give us some relief on the
6 statutory side for our responsibilities also.
7 The last item, if I may, Governor, are our
8 technological enhancements.
9 We started in about '91 or '92 on a plan to
10 get us ready for the 21st century. And we have
11 been through the IRC; we've been through both
12 legislative bodies; as well as the OPB; and
13 we've been before you on a number of occasions,
14 and appreciate your help and support getting us
15 some of this technology.
16 I'll tell you, why don't we just go to
17 the -- two more.
18 This will give you an idea of our current
19 system. The top item is our motor vehicle
20 database, motorist database. We have five
21 different databases out at the Department that
22 we are currently merging. That has been funded
23 and acquired. And that's ongoing, as we speak.
24 The second system is a distributed system
25 for our mainframe, and we have three hot sites
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1 now that should keep business booming a little
2 bit more frequently than it has been when we had
3 just one site. And in the event of any power
4 outage, of course, we've got some redundancy
5 built in there.
6 The frame relay conversion is the big cloud
7 you see. Cloud was not intentional in the
8 artwork.
9 But that's basically the communication
10 lines between the motor vehicle side and the
11 driver license side.
12 Both -- well, the driver license side has
13 been funded and acquired. The motor vehicle
14 side is in our legislative request for this
15 year.
16 The final component to this technological
17 system is the driver license, FDLIS system on
18 the left; and the FRVIS system, the Florida
19 Real-Time Vehicle Information System on the
20 right.
21 On the driver license side, we have been
22 funded for Phase I. Phase II is before the
23 legislative body right now for this year.
24 And on the motor vehicle side, we have been
25 funded and acquired. And that should be
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1 starting next month. And that'll be about a
2 year-and-a-half to two-year project.
3 The bottom line on our technological side
4 is that we have a database management system
5 that really reflects the state of the art
6 management system. That's the Oracle system.
7 Our mainframe computers should be up to
8 speed much better than they have been in the
9 past. Communication links are new.
10 The FRVIS and the FDLIS field customer user
11 have been -- are going to be reacquired, new
12 machines in the office, as well as our software
13 has been reacquired, all of which is going to
14 make us more reliable, and give us more up time
15 in the offices.
16 The OPPAGA report, if I might, Governor, is
17 the last item that we have to respond to.
18 And the OPPAGA report -- the OPPAGA report
19 really asked us to look at some of our labor
20 intensive operations that we had out there.
21 They did look at all of our information
22 technology projects and said they were all
23 on-line.
24 And that, incidentally, reiterated what
25 Johnson Controls said. They thought we were
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1 going in the right direction, they just wanted
2 us to speed things up a little bit.
3 I will tell you that there were seven
4 recommendations in the OPPAGA report, and five
5 of the seven have already been implemented, or
6 in the process of implementation as we speak.
7 Two of the other -- the other two
8 recommendations would be handled in the request
9 of our other item, which is the Peat, Marwick --
10 to have Peat, Marwick come in and review our
11 processes in a couple of areas, most namely the
12 image scanning, and our process area for
13 titling.
14 In summation, I will also tell you -- let
15 me run through one little item that OPPAGA also
16 pointed out was our motor vehicle title
17 processing.
18 Some of our goals, we had an eight-day goal
19 for processing regular titles that you'll see on
20 the chart. We are currently doing 90 percent in
21 eight days with a 99.9 percent accuracy rating.
22 We had a backlog just seven or eight months
23 ago of 65,000 documents. We're now at
24 2,000 titles -- 3,000, excuse me. And the
25 oldest one's about two weeks old.
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1 Our file transfer -- the goal was to get
2 92 percent -- 97 percent of our file transferred
3 from the tax collectors. As of last month, we
4 are at 92 percent of that figure. We're 92 of
5 97 percent. We started out about 85. So we're
6 moving nicely in that area also.
7 Fast title is another area, which, as
8 you're aware, the law requires us to provide
9 fast title within five days of submission to our
10 office.
11 The five-day goal has been met by
12 95 percent. We do have some titles that we need
13 extra information on, or there may be a mistake
14 in the -- some of the paperwork, and that throws
15 it back in the miscellaneous category, which we
16 have also whittled down substantially in the
17 last six months.
18 So all in all, Governor, I would like to
19 report to you that -- that we're moving in the
20 right direction. We're not where we want to be,
21 but I'm certainly encouraged by everything we're
22 doing.
23 This was not a hard report to put
24 together. I will tell you that these are
25 accomplishments that the people at
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1 Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles have been
2 working on for some time, and all we did was put
3 a little summary of their activities --
4 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
5 MR. DICKINSON: -- over the last several
6 years.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Are there questions?
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor, I have --
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Fred, first of all, I'd
11 just like to say that over the past year since
12 the Johnson Controls report's come out, I think
13 that there's no question that Highway Safety,
14 you, Sandy Lambert in particular, have done just
15 a wonderful job operationally of getting this
16 under control.
17 And I think that we can see that a year
18 ago, 5-hour waits; and now we're down, and
19 hopefully well under an hour. And I think that
20 there's no question that we're going in the
21 right direction. And I want to compliment you
22 on that.
23 And I want to compliment all the people out
24 in the field. Because they're, I know, in a
25 situation where you have to do with what you've
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1 got available to you.
2 And one of the things that you mentioned in
3 your report was the technology piece. And
4 I think that you're -- you're absolutely right
5 that the Johnson Controls report indicated that
6 you were on the right -- on the right track with
7 technology. The question was: Can we wait till
8 1999. And that -- that is a huge concern to
9 me.
10 And one of the reasons that I thought that
11 it was so important that we address the issue of
12 the savings was so that we could put it towards
13 the technology end. And that was also the issue
14 of the privatization, particularly in the
15 Dade County area.
16 The question I do have for you, and maybe
17 it was something that I misunderstood from you.
18 Excluding the Highway Patrol, who has less than
19 1 percent of their personnel at headquarters --
20 MR. DICKINSON: Uh-hum.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- is it true that you
22 have more people at headquarters in the
23 Kirkman Building than you do in the field? And
24 do you think that that is appropriate?
25 MR. DICKINSON: Well, no, ma'am. We
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1 actually have more people in the field. If you
2 take the Patrol out of that mix, you'll show
3 about, I think, 2,000 in the field and 1500 at
4 headquarters.
5 I will tell you that the headquarters
6 personnel are not necessarily all support
7 staff. A number of the headquarters personnel
8 are in the program area that actually support
9 directly the field personnel, and/or programs
10 such as financial responsibility.
11 I can go through the list if you'd like for
12 me to.
13 But there are a number of program people in
14 headquarters. And even though they show up as
15 Tallahassee headquarters people, they do,
16 in fact, operate for field personnel and
17 customer service.
18 Customer service is another area where we
19 have, I think, about 87 people that are
20 answering the phone lines. And those are from
21 people all over the state, and, in fact, the
22 nation, who call in on driver records.
23 So I'm not sure if it's fair to
24 characterize everyone as, you know, support
25 administrative personnel, if you would.
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1 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. What I -- I
3 would like you to check, because our numbers and
4 your numbers are different. We say that 2150 of
5 the 3,484 in the field are Highway Patrol. So
6 48 percent, or 1334 of all employees, excluding
7 FHP -- which was not part of the
8 Johnson Controls report, as you know -- are
9 actually in the field.
10 Fifty-two percent, or 1437, of all
11 employees, excluding FHP, are actually here in
12 Tallahassee.
13 And that would mean that it's really
14 48 percent out in the field, 52 percent here at
15 the Kirkman Building. That's a concern for us.
16 Obviously that was a big concern of the
17 Johnson Controls report. And we just need to
18 know that, in fact, those numbers are correct or
19 incorrect.
20 Next question: When the cuts were made
21 previously, they were basically two-to-one out
22 in the field. And this is reflected in this
23 report of yours actually from 1989 to 1990.
24 And I guess I have a concern of a
25 two-to-one cut in the field versus
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1 administration, and just wondered what your
2 general comments are.
3 MR. DICKINSON: Well, I -- you know, we do
4 this in concert with the Legislature. But I
5 will tell you that they take specific position
6 cuts. And then we typically come down to the
7 Governor, to the OPB office and say, hey, we'd
8 like to substitute some for the other.
9 The primary cut that I think we're talking
10 about is that 1995 -- the 8 million dollars that
11 we took out. And I will tell you that that was
12 something that came out of conference about a
13 day before the end of session, and we were all
14 scrambling to find out which positions they
15 were.
16 We gave them a 25 percent cut letter, which
17 is what they took all of their cuts off of.
18 When, in essence, they ended up with about a
19 3 or 4 percent. Had they asked us for a 3 or
20 4 percent cut, I think it would have been
21 substantially different.
22 We were -- we were trying to make lemonade
23 out of some lemons that were on the table before
24 us.
25 And I'll tell you -- I keep saying this --
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1 our Tallahassee personnel are not all -- I mean,
2 they're all customer service oriented. They're
3 all customer -- I mean, we have direct customer
4 service contact with those people.
5 So I'm not sure it's fair to say that we've
6 cut the field by more than we've cut
7 headquarters. The thought process being that
8 headquarters is not necessarily people who are
9 just on administrative support functions.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: But in 1995-96,
11 according to the records that we have from
12 you --
13 MR. DICKINSON: Uh-hum.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- is that 72 were cut
15 from headquarters, 158 in the field.
16 So my only -- my only question is: Is did
17 the Legislature specifically tell you to cut 158
18 in the field?
19 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, ma'am. I mean, it's
20 in --
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And 72 --
22 MR. DICKINSON: -- the budget.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- in headquarters.
24 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, ma'am. And then we
25 restructured that to where we took more from
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1 headquarters than we did from the field.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. One -- one more
3 quick question.
4 I received a letter from you dated
5 February 5th, which I would assume that everyone
6 else received as well.
7 And this goes to the issue of the reduction
8 in the levels from seven to three.
9 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, ma'am.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: In that particular
11 letter, you suggested something that I took a
12 little bit differently, and maybe you can
13 explain it.
14 Let's take the office across the street in
15 the courthouse. Sandy Lambert is the
16 Division Director.
17 MR. DICKINSON: Uh-hum.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Correct?
19 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, ma'am.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Thomas Dukes is the
21 Bureau Chief.
22 MR. DICKINSON: Correct.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And Charlotte Spivey is
24 in charge of the 15 offices under Mr. Dukes.
25 MR. DICKINSON: Correct.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Now, am I to
2 assume or not assume that the office -- I think
3 it's B-70 that's across the street -- has a
4 supervisor?
5 MR. DICKINSON: Well, I'm going to answer
6 your question I think the way you're asking it,
7 but be mindful that that office is now the tax
8 collector's office.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Correct.
10 MR. DICKINSON: That's not one of ours. We
11 don't have any personnel at that office.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Take another
13 office that's not tax collector. Do they have a
14 supervisor --
15 MR. DICKINSON: They have a --
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- in the office?
17 MR. DICKINSON: -- supervisor in the
18 office.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. And they have an
20 examiner.
21 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, ma'am.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So would that be
23 considered three layers, or would that be
24 considered five layers?
25 MR. DICKINSON: Well, if you look at the
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1 way Johnson Controls structured it, it was the
2 supervisor examiners where they started, and
3 that's where we started.
4 And we just took out all the suggested
5 layers that they said take out, which were the
6 assistant regional, the regional, the assistant
7 bureau chief, and the assistant division
8 director.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So how many
10 positions were actually eliminated?
11 MR. DICKINSON: We eliminated none. We
12 moved --
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So you've got zero
14 elimination --
15 MR. DICKINSON: That's correct.
16 We moved them to the counters. We moved
17 them to the field.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So when the
19 Johnson Controls report recommended that in the
20 first year there would be 143 less positions,
21 are you for that or against that?
22 MR. DICKINSON: Anything that will make our
23 operation more efficient, I will support. And I
24 think all of our people would. We had
25 167 positions taken that year, so -- I mean, we
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1 have made some cuts.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: But that was prior to
3 the report, that wasn't after the report.
4 MR. DICKINSON: That's correct.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
6 MR. DICKINSON: I mean, it was during the
7 year the report was being prepared.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: But the report was
9 specifically after -- the 143 they suggested
10 were after the elimination of the prior
11 positions, correct?
12 MR. DICKINSON: I think that's probably
13 accurate.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Then you
15 suggested in the House budget that they take
16 257 positions.
17 Are you -- are you espousing that
18 position?
19 MR. DICKINSON: If -- they asked us for
20 what cuts we would take, what cuts we would
21 offer up if we have to take cuts, and that is
22 our position.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So you think for
24 efficiency -- are those 257 positions all over
25 the state, or are they basically here, or --
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1 MR. DICKINSON: I can -- I don't have that
2 in front of me, but I can -- we can get that for
3 you.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Again, I think
5 this is a good exercise, because since we're all
6 in charge of the Division, we need to know
7 what's going on.
8 And, again, I'd just like to compliment
9 Fred, and to all the people in the Division,
10 because I do believe that they have come a long
11 way over the past year.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I'm not sure I
13 followed exactly what we were after there on
14 that.
15 The purpose here, from my perspective, was
16 to perform our function as Governor and Cabinet,
17 in cognizance over Fred and his people.
18 And I appreciate very much the input, Fred.
19 I do note that you did provide clear
20 indications of what the 1490 people do in
21 Tallahassee. And it is quite clear that they
22 are not what I would call headquarters people,
23 but are operational type.
24 And so in many respects, you've already
25 answered that question.
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1 But, you know, we do have a responsibility
2 to Fred and his people, and I think that's what
3 we are serving here right now. And I am quite
4 satisfied with what I see he has done as part of
5 his actions to the OPPAGA and to the Johnson
6 report, and I think he is on the right track.
7 And the -- he and his Division are our
8 responsibility, and I support what he's doing,
9 and will continue to support what he's doing.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, if
11 I can add to General Milligan's comments, I --
12 the General's absolutely correct, for the
13 Department to go through this exercise, and
14 I believe other departments should be doing it
15 also --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- and
18 I think it has them thinking a certain way, and
19 it has us understanding more about the agency.
20 And also I want to second the comments
21 about the number of people you have here in
22 headquarters.
23 As I understand it, your Division of
24 Motor Vehicles is -- is more operational.
25 I mean, and that -- historically, you issue a --
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1 I'm sure your titles from Tallahassee. And it
2 makes no difference where the people are housed,
3 because it's going to be done by mail anyway.
4 And your phone service, if you have
5 100 people answering phones, it makes no
6 difference where they happen to be sitting.
7 So -- and I definitely believe the Department is
8 going in the -- in a correct direction, and I
9 commend you on -- on really taking a major step
10 in government to put one of your major staff
11 members ahead of your Division of Highway Patrol
12 in the most populated region of this state.
13 We have noticed a great deal of -- of a
14 better working relationship now with -- with the
15 Sheriffs and the police chiefs because of that.
16 And now putting your -- your, in essence,
17 deputies to your Division of Driver's License
18 Director, I think that has made a tremendous
19 difference of putting them in the field also.
20 So I want to commend you on that service.
21 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Do we need a motion,
23 Governor, to accept the report?
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think that would be in
25 order.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I will --
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: A motion.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- make such a
4 motion.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Second.
8 Without objection, the report is accepted.
9 MR. DICKINSON: Governor, thank you.
10 I want to also thank the Secretary for
11 working with us. I mean, it hasn't been easy.
12 But we continue to work professionally, we --
13 we're going to strive to make those efficiences
14 happen.
15 And I look forward to working with your
16 office in that regard.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval of the
18 contract for consulting services.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you, Governor and
23 Cabinet.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
25
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1 (The Department of Highway Safety and Motor
2 Vehicles Agenda was concluded.)
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Department of Law
2 Enforcement.
3 MR. MOORE: Governor, Item 1 is the minutes
4 out of the -- the November 7, '96 --
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
6 MR. MOORE: -- Cabinet meeting.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, that's approved.
11 MR. MOORE: Item 2 is our quarterly report
12 from October to December of 1966.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
16 MR. MOORE: 1996, I'm sorry.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: '96 -- '97.
18 MR. MOORE: 1996. I'm living in the past a
19 bit there.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's been moved.
21 Is there a second?
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Second.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. MOORE: Item 3 is submitted for your
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1 information. That's OPPAGA's report on our
2 first year in performance based budgeting.
3 And a lot of what you heard Fred discuss
4 here is the exact kind of things that this
5 exercise has -- has caused us to go through.
6 You'll recall that when the performance
7 based budgeting law was passed back in 1994,
8 with your blessing, Governor, and with support
9 of the Cabinet, we asked the Legislature to move
10 us to the front of the line.
11 Instead -- in terms of --
12 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
13 room.)
14 MR. MOORE: -- appropriating us and
15 managing our Department under performance based
16 budgeting.
17 They did that, and the men and women in our
18 organization took a challenge that I'm very
19 proud of, to take a good organization and make
20 it better.
21 OPPAGA just came out with their -- their
22 first report on our progress in performance
23 based budgeting, and gave us a good report. It
24 said we were on the right track.
25 We recognize the fact that we have a lot to
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1 do, and there's much to be done in that arena,
2 but we're talking about the right things.
3 And we're making, I think, decisions that
4 are very consistent with the way you would want
5 us to run the agency.
6 We looked on performance based budgeting,
7 as we've talked before, as a way of doing
8 business, and not just a budgeting system, and
9 we defined it that way. We're operating that
10 way now under our 96-97 appropriation.
11 And to my knowledge, we were the first
12 agency to be totally appropriated, all parts of
13 the organization, except administration, under
14 performance based budgeting. And it's changing
15 the way we're doing business.
16 That information and that report was just
17 provided for your review.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Comment, Governor,
24 if I may.
25 First of all, I've been fortunate enough to
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1 visit with Tim a number of times on his
2 performance based budgeting activities, and that
3 certainly is an agency that has taken that
4 effort to heart, and doing a terrific job.
5 I notice in the OPPAGA though, the
6 reference to some of the performance measures,
7 including arrest rates, for example. And --
8 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
9 room.)
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- it reminds me,
11 unfortunately, of some of my past experiences
12 where in some cases, you were interested in what
13 was called a body count, and -- and so people
14 generated body counts because that's what they
15 were interested in. Had no bearing really on
16 your performance.
17 And so I think you have to be a little
18 careful when you talk about things like arrest
19 rates as a measure of your performance, because
20 all you will do is have a lot of people arrested
21 that may or may not have any bearing on really
22 good performance.
23 So it's -- it's a comment really to the
24 OPPAGA question of how one measures performance.
25 MR. MOORE: Governor, if I may respond to
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1 that, he's absolutely right. And just because
2 you arrest somebody, doesn't mean you're
3 successful.
4 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
5 MR. MOORE: We're in the business of -- of
6 clearing people against fraudulent allegations
7 as well, and the baseless allegations.
8 And we've had a lot of discussion with
9 OPPAGA, a lot of discussion with the House and
10 Senate about the appropriateness of not only
11 that point, but also remembering that a lot of
12 times, we're a supporting agency to a final
13 outcome that takes place in a local
14 Sheriff's Office, local police department.
15 The vast majority of our policing in this
16 state is, as it should be, localized. And our
17 role is to help in that regard.
18 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
19 MR. MOORE: If we're not careful, trying
20 to -- trying to measure everything to the finite
21 amount could have a very negative, unintended
22 consequence.
23 We start trying to take credit for
24 something we didn't 100 percent do, that has a
25 backlash, and I don't think that's good
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1 business. And we've moved very cautiously on
2 that point, and the excellent point that the
3 General made as well.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there further
5 question?
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No, sir.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
8 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Governor.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
10 (The Florida Department of Law Enforcement
11 Agenda was concluded.)
12 *
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Trustees of Internal
2 Improvement Trust Fund.
3 MR. GREEN: Secretary Wetherell has the
4 flu, so I'm standing in for her today.
5 Item 1, recommend deferral.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, Item 1 is forward -- or
10 referred.
11 MR. GREEN: Item 2, consideration of a
12 request to convey ten acres of State-owned lands
13 to the City of Jacksonville.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MR. GREEN: Item 3, an option agreement to
19 acquire 143.6 acres in Belle Meade.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. GREEN: Item 4, a purchase agreement to
25 acquire 31.9 acres in Belle Meade, and request
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1 for waiver of survey.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. GREEN: Item 5, a purchase agreement to
7 acquire approximately 2 acres within Cayo Costa
8 CARL project and waiver of survey.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MR. GREEN: Item 6, consideration of an
14 option agreement to acquire 4.42 acres in the
15 Avalon tract.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. GREEN: Item 7, consideration of an
22 option agreement to acquire approximately
23 45 acres in the Avalon tract.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved, seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
4 MR. GREEN: Item 8, acceptance of the
5 assignment of an option agreement to acquire
6 4.32 acres in the Avalon tract.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, that's approved.
11 MR. GREEN: Item 9, consideration of a
12 purchase agreement among the Florida Board of
13 Regents, Florida State University, and Trustees
14 to acquire .19 acres.
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Move approval.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved.
18 Seconded.
19 Without objection, it's --
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I --
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- approved.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- would like a
23 discussion, if we can --
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- Governor?
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1 This is the one I questioned the last time,
2 and was deferred.
3 I am still having a tough time dealing with
4 the amount that we're willing to pay for this
5 particular piece of property when it was
6 purchased about a year ago for 104,000, which is
7 slightly above the tax assessed value of -- a
8 120 percent of a tax assessed value.
9 There's three lots that are right next to
10 that piece of property that were purchased by
11 the same person at 115 percent over the assessed
12 value.
13 And now we are going to pay 200 percent
14 over the assessed value.
15 It's kind of interesting, there happened to
16 be an article in the paper in February 18th
17 dealing with the FAMU condemnation effort that
18 we supported. And two pieces of property
19 particularly involved there.
20 We made an offer of 114 percent over the
21 assessed value, in one case. And then made an
22 offer of 89 percent of the assessed value in
23 another case.
24 And in this one, we're making an offer of
25 200 percent over the assessed value.
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1 Now, if the assessor is -- Leon County
2 Property Appraiser assessed value is --
3 you know, is reasonably consistent throughout
4 the county, it would appear to me that there
5 should be some relationship that can be drawn.
6 And I am choosing to draw that
7 relationship, and I believe we are paying far
8 too much for that piece of property if we are
9 paying approximately 200 percent, or twice, the
10 assessed value.
11 So I -- I, in fact, oppose the purchase.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: General, you know,
13 I think we all see this, and it disturbs us all,
14 especially where, as it looks like, from what I
15 understand about this, the University's plans
16 are well-known what they're seeking to do here.
17 And some enterprising speculator has been
18 able to look at those plans, go in front of
19 them, buy -- and I understand this parcel is not
20 the only parcel that this speculator, you know,
21 has bought. I don't know who it is. But
22 purchase a couple.
23 Then, of course, they're in a position to
24 sort of demand the price. It's a very small
25 parcel which allows you almost to jack this up a
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1 little bit more.
2 The only way I know that you really kind of
3 test these things is you go and you condemn
4 something. And you let the jury decide what
5 it's worth. And Florida has one of the most
6 liberal condemnation laws there is, attorney's
7 fees are guaranteed, you know, by the state, or
8 by whoever's purchasing.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: But maybe something like
11 that gives you some credibility.
12 Now, in P2000, we never do that because
13 we're very afraid, and we want to make sure that
14 we have a willing buyer and a willing seller --
15 I mean, a willing seller, and all of those kinds
16 of things.
17 Condemnation is used every day by our
18 Department of Transportation. They make an
19 offer, they do an appraisal. If they think that
20 offer is totally -- you know, the other offer is
21 way out of line, they simply are always ready to
22 say, we'll let a jury decide this.
23 Now, you want to start -- you know,
24 I believe we could take -- we can initiate an
25 action, I believe, from up here. We have the
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1 authority even to eventually jump in and zone
2 property and do other things. So I think it's
3 within our authority.
4 And I don't know whether you're pique is to
5 this point yet, but if it is, I would join you.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I don't know whether
7 my pique is quite that far, but it's getting --
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- there.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: I just wanted you to know
11 that I --
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I am at a
13 point where we have been taken to the cleaners
14 too many times. And we need --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- to do something.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'm -- this is
19 the one I'm drawing the line on.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And that's what it's
22 all about.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
24 Generals stick together, I'm voting no also.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: You're going to vote no,
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1 too?
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'll vote no
3 also. I really believe --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, if there --
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- that the
6 first --
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- are a couple more no
8 votes, we might end up having to condemn it --
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well --
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- if we need it.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I
12 think -- I'm not sure we're going to need it.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: I might vote no, too, if
14 there's --
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'm not --
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- another one.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well,
18 Governor, I'm not sure we need it. I mean --
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: I don't want to allow
20 y'all to just allow the luxury of your no votes,
21 and --
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well --
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- us go ahead and buying
24 this damn property, you know?
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, I
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1 think there's other ways to buy this property.
2 I think the University could have purchased
3 property much -- maybe much quicker.
4 Maybe we should look at the issue of why
5 make an announcement you're going to buy
6 something, and then let somebody go in there and
7 buy it on a few cents on a dollar and make the
8 money on it.
9 The State of Florida, I think, on all land
10 buying, I mean, we're -- we're always the last
11 in a daisy chain.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I think so.
13 General, as you know, in our sunshine
14 environment, it's very hard for the Board, or
15 anybody else, to kind of move like a normal
16 purchaser would.
17 But, you know, kind of keep your hand
18 folded up against your chest and go buy what you
19 need --
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right. But
21 there have been some laws changed, I believe,
22 which will allow you to do just that, as long as
23 you keep the court records, or at least you keep
24 a court reporter's documents of what you're
25 doing.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Uh-hum.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So in order
3 to protect the treasury of the State.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Is there anybody
5 out there that could shed some light on this?
6 MR. GREEN: We have a representative from
7 FSU here that acted as the agent in the
8 acquisition. He can talk to the need for the
9 property and the price that they're paying.
10 MR. ADAMICK: Hi. My name is
11 Steve Adamick, and I'm with FSU.
12 And I'm sorry, I -- I didn't hear the
13 question.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I hadn't asked it
15 yet.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor -- Governor,
17 how about a question?
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- an answer, we --
19 we'll figure out a question for it.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, you've got somebody
21 here to answer a question --
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'd like to -- I'll
23 follow up on what Commissioner Crawford,
24 I think, started to suggest. The need for the
25 property.
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1 MR. ADAMICK: Well, as I believe y'all
2 know, when we started this process about 1992,
3 we identified an area that we were interested in
4 purchasing property in.
5 And real quickly, that's -- that's
6 Tennessee Street to the north, Macomb Street to
7 the east, Gaines Street to the south, and
8 Stadium Drive to the west, and that kind of
9 makes a rectangle.
10 And we're looking at trying to purchase as
11 much property inside that area as we can with
12 the money that we have available. We -- we do
13 not have enough money to purchase all of the
14 property that we don't own inside that area at
15 this point. But we have enough to purchase a
16 great deal of it.
17 And we have purchased a considerable amount
18 over the last four, four-and-a-half years.
19 Obviously the University has to expand over
20 time, and it seems to make the most sense for us
21 to expand in that direction, rather than to try
22 to go to the east where property is even more
23 expensive than this property is; or to the
24 north, because, we, frankly don't want to cross
25 Tennessee Street. It poses too much problems
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1 for us moving people back and forth across a
2 six-lane street. And so that's the reason we
3 identified the area that we're looking at.
4 And I can tell you that every parcel that
5 we -- that we're trying to buy is important to
6 us. Surely we can -- we could probably do
7 without it.
8 But over a period of time, I would suggest
9 to you that eventually the University is going
10 to own most all of that property, if not now,
11 then, say, over the next 10 to 15 years.
12 We have occasion where we make offers to
13 people, and our offers are refused. So we do
14 not -- we're not successful in making every
15 purchase that we've attempted to make.
16 I would say that our success rate is --
17 it's better than 50 percent, maybe 60 percent,
18 65 percent.
19 But we certainly have not been able to
20 just -- to make a deal with every -- every owner
21 that we've -- we've talked to in this process.
22 As you're aware, our offers are based on --
23 on an appraisal that's done for us. We really
24 don't have any control over that process. It's
25 done independently, and then it's given to us to
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1 use as a tool. And we try to base our offers
2 on -- on that tool. It's really the only thing
3 that we have to work with.
4 We -- we can't even really discuss an offer
5 with an owner until we have that appraisal,
6 under the law that we work under. So that's our
7 main way of determining what the property's
8 worth, and how much we can legally offer an
9 owner for it.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Correct me if I'm
11 wrong on this. You had a single appraisal. And
12 the opening offer by FSU to purchase this
13 property was at that appraisal price.
14 MR. ADAMICK: I think it was a few hundred
15 dollars less than that. I don't actually do the
16 appraisal -- excuse me --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay. I won't
18 quibble over a couple hundred bucks, when we're
19 talking about the money we're talking about.
20 But -- so the -- there was no real
21 negotiation. It was an understanding that's the
22 appraisal price, and that's probably what we're
23 going to have to pay for it, so make that offer.
24 MR. ADAMICK: Well --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah, I would
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1 suggest that you could buy a heck of a lot more
2 property with the money you have available,
3 quote, unquote, by offer-- by trying to buy it a
4 little cheaper. Be able to buy a lot more.
5 MR. ADAMICK: Yes, sir. I --
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And really --
7 MR. ADAMICK: -- I won't argue with you.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- hard-nosed
9 negotiating. And, if necessary, going to
10 condemnation if you really need the property, if
11 it's really a valid and supportable requirement.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And, Governor --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- if I may, I --
15 we -- we've talked at length with staff about
16 this purchase since the last meeting, and we
17 still continue to wrestle with the issue about
18 when do you draw a line in the sand on some of
19 these issues.
20 Because I agree with the General, that we
21 actually are the ones who are approving the
22 purchase. And as the speaker suggested, they
23 only have so much money. And as long as we
24 continue to say, yes, certainly they're going to
25 have less money to spend on other projects.
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1 I know the issue of willing sellers and the
2 issue of even acquiring property with the
3 knowledge that sooner or later, the State
4 Board -- or the Board of Trustees is going to
5 look to move in and buy it, which certainly
6 elevates the potential selling price.
7 I tend to agree with what's being
8 discussed. The Governor mentioned the sunshine
9 and the problem that gives you with knowing
10 where other members of the -- of the State Board
11 are on some of these issues.
12 We wrestled with this one long and hard,
13 not just as an isolated purchase, but as it
14 relates to what's going to continually be a
15 constant need, I think, by Florida State
16 University to grow in an area that is, for all
17 intents and purposes, landlocked. And how those
18 prices will become inflated over time.
19 So if -- if I'm hearing the sentiments of
20 this body at a public meeting right, what I'm
21 hearing is is that perhaps it is time to draw a
22 line in the sand, and -- and look to this
23 particular purchase as sort of a benchmark for
24 where we're going to go on these purchases in
25 the future.
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1 And I was, I believe, either the maker of
2 the motion or the second of the motion. And if
3 I'm hearing you all right, I would be happy to
4 withdraw my motion on this one, and regroup, as
5 a body.
6 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask a question?
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
8 TREASURER NELSON: Tell me, where is this
9 property located? Is it out there where all
10 those warehouses are close to the railroad
11 tracks?
12 MR. ADAMICK: No, sir. It's on
13 Lafayette Street. Gosh.
14 Do you know where the FSU Credit Union is
15 on Woodward Street? Are you familiar with --
16 TREASURER NELSON: I think so.
17 MR. ADAMICK: Well, it would be back to the
18 east from that direction about --
19 TREASURER NELSON: How far is it from
20 Gaines Street?
21 MR. ADAMICK: It's about two blocks north
22 of --
23 TREASURER NELSON: North of --
24 MR. ADAMICK: -- Gaines Street.
25 TREASURER NELSON: -- Gaines Street.
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1 MR. ADAMICK: Yes.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Is there a
3 motion?
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, I -- I believe
5 I was the maker of the original motion, Governor
6 But -- and I don't know who the second was.
7 I would be happy to withdraw that motion
8 that I made if the second will withdraw that
9 one, and we can begin again.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well --
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Why don't we just
12 do a substitute motion?
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Can't we have a
14 motion, and second it, and then vote yes or no?
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I was trying to make
16 it easier than that. But that's all right with
17 me. We can do it either way.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: We've got a motion and a
19 second.
20 Let's call the roll.
21 COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
22 Commissioner Brogan.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: No.
24 COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
25 Commissioner Crawford.
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yes.
2 COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
3 Commissioner Nelson.
4 TREASURER NELSON: Yes.
5 COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
6 Comptroller Milligan.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
8 COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
9 General Butterworth.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
11 COURT REPORTER GILBERT: Governor Chiles.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: No.
13 All right. Next item.
14 MR. GREEN: Item 10, application for
15 modification of a five-year sovereignty
16 submerged land lease to contain 126,228 square
17 feet.
18 Second is a modification of an existing
19 five-year lease to a term of 25 years and an
20 authorization to sever sovereign materials.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
2 I'm -- I'll object. I'm opposed to a 25-year
3 lease in this particular area.
4 I think at a point in time we're going to
5 start to regret -- or at least our future people
6 sitting up here -- are going to start to regret
7 these 25 year leases. Historically these people
8 used to do five-year leases.
9 You're putting this land in Clay County on
10 the St. Johns River for 25 years. I just think
11 locking us in is just a wrong thing to do.
12 So I vote no.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Note the
14 objection.
15 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 11 is approval
16 of a moratorium on mitigation banking on
17 Trustee -- Board of Trustees lands --
18 TREASURER NELSON: I want to be recorded as
19 no also.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
21 MR. GREEN: -- and authorization to proceed
22 to public workshops on a draft policy that's
23 attached.
24 We would like to make a presentation -- a
25 brief presentation to you on mitigation banking,
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1 and help explain why we think at this point in
2 time we need a moratorium to help us address and
3 look at the issues we need to look at in terms
4 of mitigation banking on State property.
5 So if -- if we have the time, Ann Redmond
6 would like to make a short presentation.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: How long will this take,
8 got any idea?
9 MR. GREEN: About 15 to 20 minutes.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: I've had a chance to hear
11 this presentation before, so I -- I have a
12 lunch, I am going to kind of need to duck out,
13 although I don't want to stop anybody else from
14 hearing the presentation.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
16 I think all of us realize, as was stated, the
17 importance of needing a moratorium.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Right.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We may not
20 need the demonstration, but I have a motion
21 which may or may not pass --
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I wanted to say
23 that I would -- I support the moratorium, and I
24 would want to vote on that if that's going to be
25 any controversy to it. So --
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, maybe
2 it's in controversy in my motion, Governor, if I
3 may get -- just to read that, what I'd planned
4 to amend --
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Right.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- any maybe
7 that could be taken care of now, even before the
8 presentation.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Why don't you do that,
10 and let's see --
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- if the people would
13 like to hear --
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: This is
15 given all the concerns identified about this
16 issue, and the questions raised by the
17 information to be presented here today.
18 I believe it would be premature to consider
19 any requests for approval of a moratorium bank
20 on State lands until staff reports back to this
21 Board --
22 It's in a year, is it not, when you're
23 reporting back?
24 Or whenever you report back.
25 MR. GREEN: Well, the motion would be for a
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1 moratorium until we adopt -- bring you back a
2 rule for adoption.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. So
4 it -- so until staff reports back to this Board.
5 Accordingly, I move that the moratorium
6 extend to all proposals for mitigation banks on
7 State lands, including any pending proposals.
8 This will not affect mitigation projects.
9 TREASURER NELSON: I second it.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's seconded.
11 Is there --
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- discussion on that?
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- just some
15 discussion, and a possible substitute.
16 There are two pending banks,
17 Lake Okeechobee and the Overstreet that are in
18 the pipeline to date; is that not correct?
19 MR. GREEN: The -- Lake Okeechobee has an
20 application before us. It's not complete.
21 The Overstreet bank has not submitted an
22 application to us at this point, but it has been
23 before you and -- in discussion with the land
24 acquisition project.
25 So the answer is, one, yes, we do have an
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1 application on the Okeechobee site --
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: But it's not
3 complete you said.
4 MR. GREEN: It's not complete.
5 -- and the Overstreet bank has not come
6 back to the Department in application form.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: All right.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So that's
9 what I don't understand is why we're exempting
10 those out, one with an incomplete application,
11 and one with no application at all. That seems
12 pretty silly. I mean, personally, I would --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And your motion
14 doesn't opt them out.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
16 In fact, if it would -- I would read it to where
17 there is no -- if it's a not complete
18 application, it's not in the pipeline. If
19 there's no application, how can anybody even say
20 it's in the pipeline?
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well --
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I mean, any
23 application that's in there -- any application
24 that is in the pipeline has actually gone
25 through steps it has to go through, then,
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1 of course, I think we're stuck there.
2 But I -- I just find it incomprehensible to
3 try to put somebody outside the moratorium who
4 is not even into the door yet. I mean --
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: But we -- didn't we
6 take some action on that?
7 MR. GREEN: We did when we approved the
8 land acquisition on the Overstreet property with
9 the Water Management District. There was
10 discussion about whether or not the land would
11 be available for a mitigation bank.
12 At that time, we said that we would
13 consider it at some later date when we had --
14 when we had a specific proposal before us.
15 So we indicated that we would consider it,
16 but we didn't take any affirmative action to
17 approve a bank, or -- or any --
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well --
19 MR. GREEN: -- anything like that.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- I think the only thing
21 that perhaps -- or what I am concerned about --
22 let me just say that -- is that if we have
23 induced someone in by virtue of our action, and
24 they've spent time and money, and they're in the
25 process, and, I don't know, I think the question
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1 is where does that application -- where is it
2 ripe, or whatnot.
3 But I feel a little bit strange about
4 looking at some of those that might have -- be
5 almost ready for adoption, or something like
6 that. As opposed to somebody saying, I would
7 like a mitigation bank, you know, and made some
8 requests, or something like that. I think that
9 would be different.
10 Is there some way of --
11 MR. GREEN: What we can do --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- alleviating, or saying
13 where we are in regard to ones that are almost
14 ripe, or something?
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, couldn't we
16 just refer it to the Okeechobee project and the
17 Overstreet project, and not -- if we wanted to.
18 I mean, if it's --
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No. I mean,
20 the thing is if this -- if this is an important
21 issue, Governor, I mean, if, in fact, staff is
22 telling us that they want time to come back
23 to -- on this mitigation bank issue on State
24 lands, and they're going to report back as
25 quickly as they can, I don't think anybody is
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1 harmed if you have not put the application in,
2 definitely; and if you're having -- and if you
3 have in -- an application, which is not
4 complete, it's not an application.
5 I don't know how long it takes from
6 application till the time it gets to the Board.
7 I'm sure it's not a week or two.
8 So I would assume if you do your job
9 quickly, as we hope you will, perhaps the people
10 with the Okeechobee lands, and the other lands,
11 will be hoping you get your job done quickly
12 also.
13 I mean, I just don't wish -- I think it's
14 pretty silly for us to exempt somebody --
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- am I correct in
18 suggesting that both the Okeechobee and
19 Overstreet projects would have to come back
20 before this body for any final approval --
21 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- if they were
23 allowed to continue on with the process?
24 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir. That's a --
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So if, in fact, we
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1 exempted them, at least for now, for further
2 discussion from the moratorium, no official
3 action could be taken out without the approval
4 of this body; isn't that correct?
5 MR. GREEN: That's correct.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, my
7 only problem there would be, is it fair to other
8 people who have not put an application in, to
9 allow somebody who's not put an application in
10 to have a greater benefit or privilege. It just
11 doesn't seem to fair to me.
12 I mean, I -- I know very little about these
13 two projects. I know very little about where --
14 where they sit in the system. But if they're
15 not in the system, it's -- it concerns me
16 seriously and greatly as to why we're picking
17 out one person in particular, or two people in
18 particular, and making them more equal than all
19 the rest. Does not make any sense.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor --
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I understand that
23 neither one of these two that are supposedly
24 pending applications have, in fact, applied.
25 MR. GREEN: No, sir. The Okeechobee bank
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1 has an application before us. It's an
2 incomplete application.
3 They've been working with the
4 Water Management District to complete the
5 mitigation banking permit with them before they
6 bring it back to us. We gave them concep-- you
7 gave them conceptual approval --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
9 MR. GREEN: -- a number of months ago.
10 And so they were able to complete their
11 application with the Water Management District.
12 They have to complete their application with us
13 before we bring it back to you.
14 So that's kind of the status of that one.
15 It's been through the Water Management
16 District's review. I believe they have their
17 banking permit from them. They need to complete
18 the application with the Department so we can
19 bring it back to you for --
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Are there any others
21 that are in a similar state?
22 MR. GREEN: No, sir.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, tell us about
24 now the Overstreet project.
25 MR. GREEN: The Overstreet project was a
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1 project where the Water Management District had
2 brought to us a proposal that would, in essence,
3 give us the lands, if the Trustees agreed to
4 allowing them to perform mitigation banking acts
5 on that property.
6 You turned that down because we didn't know
7 enough about the mitigation process at that
8 point.
9 The Water Management District, I believe,
10 went ahead with the purchase of those lands, and
11 left some rights in the property that would
12 allow the Overstreets to use it as a mitigation
13 bank if -- if we could -- we could work out the
14 details of that.
15 And we don't have an application before us
16 on that one yet.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, what you're saying
18 is, then, the one in the Okeechobee, it had
19 conceptual approval from us. The Overstreet
20 property -- or that has not had a conceptual
21 approval.
22 MR. GREEN: That's correct, yes, sir.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: But what had -- you
24 said we did make some references to it up here.
25 Didn't the Cabinet make some reference to
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1 it, some indication?
2 MR. GREEN: I believe. I'd have to go back
3 and --
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah.
5 MR. GREEN: -- look at the transcript.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Could I --
7 MR. GREEN: I can't --
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- could I offer up a
9 possible short-term resolution to this, because
10 I know the Governor -- we're back to the
11 15 minutes that we probably should have watched
12 the presentation.
13 If, just for purposes of making myself and
14 maybe others comfortable with exactly where we
15 are on those two projects, could we move the
16 mitigation, and at least defer those two
17 projects until the next meeting; and at that
18 point, take up this issue again and decide,
19 in fact, whether to allow those projects to move
20 forward, or include them in the moratorium?
21 Would that be all right?
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, I
23 have no problem with that. But if somebody's
24 going to go running in, either the Overstreets
25 or the Okeechobee land, or anybody else in the
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1 state, then go running in there now and attempt
2 to file an application real quickly, we're
3 getting ourself in a box.
4 If it's an important issue, it's an
5 important issue. We sit here as a Board of
6 Trustees for the people of the state of Florida,
7 not for the Okeechobee land people, or the
8 Overstreets, for all the people of the state --
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- of
11 Florida.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and I would
13 agree --
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And I
15 understand that.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- I'm not trying to
17 give anybody a larger foot in the door. And
18 I -- believe me, I would be in a position to
19 review this until the next meeting, and if I
20 found that somebody was hurrying the process to
21 try to improve their position on this, believe
22 me, I'd take that into consideration.
23 I just simply want an opportunity to get
24 some more information before I make the decision
25 on those two.
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1 Again, I'm ready to move the moratorium.
2 I'd just like till the next meeting to consider
3 the other two projects. That's all.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah. And
5 I think -- as I hear that -- what could be a
6 motion, I guess, would be we go ahead with the
7 moratorium, but come back specifically, look at
8 those two projects at the next meeting, and only
9 those two. So we're not actually opening the
10 door.
11 MR. GREEN: Not --
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And we could actually
13 look at them as to where they are today, not
14 tomorrow or next week, or whatever it happens to
15 be. I'll be glad to do that.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a second to that
17 motion?
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been seconded.
20 Further discussion.
21 Many as favor, signify by saying aye.
22 THE CABINET: Aye.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
24 All right. Done.
25 MR. GREEN: That concludes the --
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'm in
2 charge, Governor. As soon as you leave, I have
3 some motions for consideration.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Sure.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I think I'm going
6 to leave, too.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: How many
8 people wish to speak to the -- to the -- not to
9 the Governor and Cabinet -- the Cabinet now on
10 this issue?
11 If nobody needs to speak, I guess maybe we
12 can adjourn the meeting. It's --
13 MR. GREEN: We had --
14 MS. ARMSTRONG: I can't persuade you to go
15 backwards.
16 I'll wait till next week.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Ever forward, okay.
18 MR. GREEN: We only had the presentation.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Does anybody
20 wish -- just have the burning desire to listen
21 to this 15-minute boring, but very informational
22 and important --
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: It's not boring.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move adjournment,
25 General.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Since the
2 Governor's still here --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Move.
4 MR. GREEN: Thank you.
5 (The Trustees of the Internal Improvement
6 Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
7 *
8 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
9 12:44 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 172 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 10TH day of MARCH, 1997.
17
18
19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
100 Salem Court
20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
(904) 878-2221
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