Cabinet
Affairs |
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2 T H E C A B I N E T
3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
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Representing:
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
6 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
7 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
8 TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
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10 The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
11 presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
12 March 11, 1997, commencing at approximately 9:54 a.m.
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16 Reported by:
17 LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
18 Certified Court Reporter
Notary Public in and for
19 the State of Florida at Large
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23 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
24 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
904/878-2221
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES
Governor
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BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
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SANDRA B. MORTHAM
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
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BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN
Commissioner of Education
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
March 11, 1997
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1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
4 Director)
5 1 Approved 5
2 Approved 6
6 3 Approved 6
4 Approved 7
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
8 (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
Deputy Commissioner)
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1 Approved 8
10 2 Deferred 9
3 Approved 11
11 4 Good Cause 11
12 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
13 Secretary)
14 1 Approved 23
2 Approved 23
15 3 Approved 24
4 Approved 24
16 5 Approved 25
6 Approved 27
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FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
18 ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION:
(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
19 Secretary)
20 1 Approved 28
2 Deferred 28
21 3 Approved 29
4 Withdrawn 29
22 5 Approved 55
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
March 11, 1997
4
1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
ITEM ACTION PAGE
3
BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
4 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
5 (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell,
Secretary)
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1 Approved 57
7 2 Approved 57
3 Approved 57
8 4 Approved 57
Substitute 5 Approved 78
9 6 Approved 78
7 Approved 78
10 Substitute 8 Approved 99
Substitute 9 Approved 102
11 10 Deferred 102
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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 103
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
March 11, 1997
5
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:44 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: And now we'll go to the
4 agenda, Division of Bond Finance.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Bond Finance?
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, let's try the State
7 Board of Edu-- oh.
8 MR. WATKINS: Item number 1 is approval of
9 the minutes of the February 25th --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
11 MR. WATKINS: -- meeting.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, the minutes are
15 approved.
16 MR. WATKINS: Item number 2 is a resolution
17 authorizing the issuance of up to four hundred
18 million dollars in Tampa-Hillsborough County
19 Expressway Authority Bonds for new projects and
20 refunding existing --
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
22 MR. WATKINS: -- bonds.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
March 11, 1997
6
1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. WATKINS: Item number 3 is a report on
3 the sale of a hundred and eighty-nine million
4 eight hundred forty thousand dollars in
5 Education --
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
7 MR. WATKINS: -- Capital Outlay Bonds
8 for --
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, that's approved.
12 MR. WATKINS: Item number --
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: By the way, before we
14 leave that one, that's a very impressive
15 interest rate on that. That's, I think, the
16 best interest rate on PECO that I've seen since
17 I've been here.
18 MR. WATKINS: This is a capital outlay
19 issue, and it is a very good inter-- this is for
20 local school districts --
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes.
22 MR. WATKINS: -- and we were very pleased
23 with the bids that we got on those bonds.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Should be. That's a
25 great rate.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
March 11, 1997
7
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good.
2 MR. WATKINS: Item number 4 is a report on
3 the sale of forty-five million forty-five
4 thousand --
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
6 MR. WATKINS: -- Department of
7 Transportation --
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
9 MR. WATKINS: -- right-of-way refunding
10 bonds.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, that's approved.
13 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
14 concluded.)
15 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
8
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of Education.
2 DR. BEDFORD: Governor Chiles, members of
3 the State Board of Education, good morning.
4 Item 1, minutes of the meeting held
5 January 28th, 1997.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, that's approved.
10 DR. BEDFORD: Item 2, lease agreement
11 between the State of -- the State Board of
12 Education and South Florida Public
13 Telecommunication, Inc., WXEL.
14 I believe we have a request to defer.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes, sir,
16 Governor. I believe some progress is being
17 made.
18 Dr. Reed, is that correct, and want about a
19 two-month -- about a two-week deferral,
20 I believe, on this.
21 Governor, I move that we defer this to the
22 next Cabinet meeting.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion to defer.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Second.
2 Without objection, it's deferred.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- however, on that
6 particular item, when it does come back before
7 us on March 25th, if we could have an actual
8 lease agreement one way or the other, I would
9 like something that we can actually deal with,
10 so that everybody knows exactly where we stand.
11 It just seems like this has gone on now for some
12 time.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, that would be good,
14 I think, if it could be done by that time, maybe
15 to have everything in a -- at least an outline
16 would be good.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That would be good.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
19 MR. OLENICK: Mike Olenick.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
21 MR. OLENICK: Secretary, I just have a
22 question.
23 Is that -- the assumption then is that
24 amendment or that assignment would be with
25 the -- with Barry Tel., and a draft agreement
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
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1 for this, or do you mean something else?
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: No. Basically I mean
3 we need to come to a resolution. We've got
4 money out there on the table by some of these
5 institutions, or at least one institution.
6 I think they need to know, you know, where they
7 stand.
8 MR. OLENICK: Okay. I can -- and I guess
9 I'm just trying to get some direction.
10 I can have, by end of the week, an
11 amendment or an assignment of that agreement.
12 The agreement now is, as you know, with the
13 State Board of Ed, and we'll call it WXEL.
14 Barry, of course, has requested an
15 assignment -- or requested they take over these
16 assets and continue.
17 I can have by the end of the week for your
18 aides a draft agreement continuing in that
19 vein. But other than that -- and I guess that's
20 what I was trying to get the direction.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I would be very
22 comfortable with whatever Bob Bedford wants.
23 DR. BEDFORD: Great.
24 MR. OLENICK: Thank you.
25 DR. BEDFORD: Speaking of that new
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
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1 Porsche --
2 No, that's not --
3 Item 3. Item 3 is Rule 6A-1.012, amendment
4 to purchasing policy.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 DR. BEDFORD: Item 4 is a good cause item,
12 presentation of the 1997 Legislative Programs
13 for Public Schools K-12, Community Colleges, and
14 the State University System.
15 Frank Brogan, Commissioner of Education,
16 will entertain any questions or concerns over
17 K-12; we have Tom Furlong representing the
18 Community Colleges; and Charlie Reed
19 representing the University System.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
21 may I give --
22 DR. BEDFORD: I believe each of --
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- this to
24 the --
25 DR. BEDFORD: -- you received --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
12
1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: --
2 Commissioner first.
3 DR. BEDFORD: -- each of you received an
4 agenda from one of the three -- this is --
5 (Attorney General Butterworth presented
6 Commission Brogan with a large hourglass.)
7 DR. BEDFORD: Commissioner, I think I
8 understand this, sir.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Bravo.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's all right. That's
11 a shorter time. That's like the wife changing
12 places, I think.
13 DR. BEDFORD: I think they should have at
14 least given you a full amount of sand, sir.
15 I --
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Any questions?
17 Hearing none --
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: That was good.
19 DR. BEDFORD: That was good.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: You lay awake nights
21 thinking this stuff up, Butterworth --
22 DR. BEDFORD: Are there any questions for
23 either of the three agencies?
24 TREASURER NELSON: I do.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
13
1 TREASURER NELSON: Tell me about conversion
2 to charter schools.
3 In my home county --
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: What would you like
5 to know?
6 TREASURER NELSON: -- we have a school
7 within a school. And it's trying to be a
8 charter. And apparently there's some
9 administrative opposition to it down there.
10 So I'm curious, is there some legislative
11 changes that are being proposed that would
12 address the problems of conversion to charter
13 schools?
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Commissioner, to my
15 knowledge, all of the amendments on charter
16 schools are technical in nature. I don't
17 believe anyone would specifically -- and
18 somebody from staff -- correct me if I'm
19 wrong -- specifically the -- address the issue
20 of school within a school.
21 I'm well aware of that issue down there.
22 And what a school within a school means to me,
23 that's obviously being defined by some others as
24 something different again.
25 But I don't believe that any of the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
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1 proposed technical amendments would address that
2 issue specifically, Commissioner.
3 DR. BEDFORD: The only thing that deals
4 with the appeal would be the expansion from 30
5 to 60 days so that school districts can come
6 before you with an appeal. But I don't believe
7 it answers the Treasurer's question.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I don't think it's
9 going to solve their problem, in other words.
10 DR. BEDFORD: Right.
11 TREASURER NELSON: Is there something that
12 you'd like me to do about that?
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, literally, it
14 is one of those issues that I think is going to
15 have to be -- resolve itself at the local level,
16 Commissioner. I just don't know of any other
17 way, short of writing legislation, that would
18 take into consideration every possible
19 contingency.
20 And this is one of those that we've run
21 into that, again, I know I have strong feelings
22 about, and I'm sure, based on your question, you
23 probably do as well.
24 But I think it's going to have to be a
25 locally rectified issue.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
15
1 That one may come before the Cabinet, is
2 that a --
3 DR. BEDFORD: Yes.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- possibility?
5 DR. BEDFORD: One of the things that's
6 going to happen is that the applicant will
7 notify the School Board they are going to
8 appeal. Now, that may expedite the process.
9 And that is in the new rule.
10 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. Now, you've got
11 in the legislation zero tolerance. Tell me
12 what's happened that brought us to this in order
13 to get districts to uniformly report school
14 crime when, in fact, the State Board of
15 Education had passed a zero tolerance rule two
16 or three years ago.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The operative phrase
18 there -- or word I think is reporting. We have
19 passed a zero tolerance, and we expect it to be
20 enforced.
21 One of the things that we're seeing,
22 however, around the state -- and that's why
23 we've proposed legislation about it -- is that
24 when a criminal act -- or I should suggest an
25 alleged criminal act -- occurs on a school
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
16
1 campus, what this legislation would do is
2 require that law enforcement be contacted.
3 In our opinion, it's up to law enforcement
4 to determine if, indeed, there was a criminal
5 act which took place or not.
6 In the State reporting, what we found was a
7 large number, as we sadly usually do, of
8 criminal acts that might involve weapons on
9 campus, drugs and alcohol on campus, but a
10 disproportionately low number which were
11 actually reported to law enforcement.
12 And we believe that, as we see on the
13 streets with some juveniles, that if you simply
14 shake your finger at them and look the other way
15 time and time again, then they ultimately end up
16 going before a juvenile judge. And if it's
17 their first offense, you may, by waggling your
18 finger at them, actually done them a
19 disservice.
20 And I think through this process, by not
21 reporting an alleged criminal act to
22 law enforcement because it took place allegedly
23 on a school ground, same effect, you may,
24 in essence, be doing a disservice to that
25 youngster who may then get the impression, as
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
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1 might his peers, that it's one thing to perform
2 a criminal act on public streets; it's another
3 thing to perform a criminal act -- or
4 participate in a criminal act on a school
5 campus.
6 We believe there is no difference. A crime
7 is a crime is a crime, law enforcement should be
8 contacted.
9 If we're really going to have zero
10 tolerance, Commissioner Nelson, and I think all
11 of us support that, then we're going to have to
12 get serious about it.
13 I would rather see a youngster involved
14 with law enforcement early on to understand that
15 that issue was unacceptable, and is going to
16 lead to further problems if not corrected, than
17 allow it to continue to the point where
18 youngsters are confused when they finally do
19 face severe penalties.
20 And we hope, through this legislation,
21 we'll not only see better reporting to the
22 state; more importantly, we hope we'll see
23 better coordination between law enforcement and
24 local schools.
25 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Frank, let
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
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1 me ask you something in the State University
2 System.
3 With this increase in tuition in the
4 University System, what will be the differential
5 between Florida's university's tuitions and the
6 national average?
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Chancellor, you want
8 to answer that?
9 DR. REED: Commissioner Nelson, we're
10 currently less than half of the national average
11 right now in tuition. Our tuition is about
12 $1800. And it's over $3700 nationally.
13 We rank forty-ninth out of the fifty
14 states. Only Idaho charges less in tuition. I
15 never thought I'd live to see the day that
16 Florida charged more -- or less than Texas and
17 North Carolina, because they have a state policy
18 to have low tuition, and high state aid. And
19 North Carolina and Texas now charge more tuition
20 than Florida does.
21 But this'll move us to about
22 forty-seventh -- forty-sixth or forty-seventh,
23 depending on what the other states do.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And what about in
25 terms of state contract -- or individual
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
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1 contribution?
2 MR. REED: The individual contribution will
3 be approximately 25 percent of the cost of an
4 undergraduate education is what it's pegged to.
5 So the State will pay 75 percent, those who
6 benefit will be paying approximately 25 percent.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Dr. Reed, you're
8 proposing a $50 technology fee per semester per
9 student. Can you tell us about that?
10 DR. REED: Commissioner Nelson, we are
11 recommending that the Legislature provide the
12 authority to the Board of Regents to have each
13 university set a flexible technology fee up to
14 $50 per semester. Not to exceed $50 per
15 semester.
16 That will be converted to an hourly rate of
17 approximately $4 per credit hour so that the
18 part-time students that only take one course or
19 so, don't pay the $50.
20 On the other hand, students who take more
21 than 12 hours, it will be capped at $50 so that
22 they don't pay more than that.
23 The University System has spent
24 approximately the last two years studying, how
25 are other states putting in place the technology
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
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1 that our students need to be competitive and be
2 able to go out into the workplace and perform.
3 The states that we've looked at are
4 Michigan, Pennsylvania, Virginia, California,
5 Illinois, New York. They are states that have
6 outstanding university systems.
7 All of those states are now charging a
8 technology fee to their students to put the
9 infrastructure all the way from the fiber-optic
10 systems that need to be in the dormitories and
11 the student centers and the classrooms, to
12 providing access to personal computing for our
13 students.
14 About 50 percent of our students arrive on
15 the campus with laptop computers. The other
16 50 percent don't have it. And I can tell you,
17 that is something that we are concerned about,
18 because having access to the Web is very
19 important in the universities.
20 Our digitized library systems now,
21 electronic library systems, are providing access
22 to students to all different kinds of scientific
23 journals that are required to be read by our
24 faculty members. So we're trying to even that
25 out and provide access.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
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1 In order to provide that access, we've got
2 to purchase many more servers on the campuses,
3 modems for our students for local dial-up.
4 We believe that the $50, or not more than
5 $50 technology fee, frankly, will be less than
6 what current students are paying themselves.
7 We can negotiate a much better fee with --
8 for instance, America Online, who are now
9 charging $20 a month for access to the Web. We
10 know we can negotiate a fee less than that, and
11 that the students would pay no more than $50 to
12 get access.
13 We want every student in the university
14 system, when they register, to get an E-mail
15 address, to get an account number, to get on the
16 World Wide Web.
17 Secretary Mortham's people in the library
18 system have been helping us. We're purchasing
19 digitized library materials like the Britannica
20 Encyclopedia.
21 We can purchase that as a system much, much
22 cheaper than the 28 community colleges and the
23 ten universities individually can purchase that
24 intellectual property. And so that's the
25 direction that we're going with the $50
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
March 11, 1997
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1 technology fee.
2 It's a competitiveness that we've got to be
3 prepared to have in place.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
5 TREASURER NELSON: But -- by the payment of
6 that $50 fee, a student, no matter whether they
7 lived on campus or off campus, still could have
8 their account and --
9 DR. REED: That is correct.
10 TREASURER NELSON: -- connect --
11 DR. REED: And they will have access
12 through a local telephone number to get on the
13 Web, to communicate with their faculty, to
14 communicate through E-mail, and to access the
15 library and other digitized materials.
16 TREASURER NELSON: That's good.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
18 DR. BEDFORD: Any other?
19 Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: That the end?
21 DR. BEDFORD: That's it.
22 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
23 concluded.)
24 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
March 11, 1997
23
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Land and Water
2 Adjudicatory Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Governor, would you like to
4 do the Administration Commission first?
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
6 DR. BRADLEY: Okay. Thank you.
7 Item number 1, recommend approval of the
8 minutes of the meeting held February 25th --
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10 DR. BRADLEY: -- 1997.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Approved.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, recommend
16 approval of the transfer of general revenue
17 appropriations and administered funds, State
18 Court System.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3, recommend
24 approval of the transfer of general revenue
25 appropriations in the Department of Children and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
March 11, 1997
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1 Families.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, that's approved.
6 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
7 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 4, recommend
8 approval of a temporary transfer of six million
9 nine hundred and fifteen thousand sixty-four
10 dollars to the Department of Environmental
11 Protection from various Department of
12 Environmental Protection trust funds in the
13 State Treasury to the Grants and Donation Trust
14 Fund to resolve cash deficiencies for Federal
15 grants that are --
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
17 DR. BRADLEY: -- on a reimbursement basis.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 5, recommend
22 approval of the transfer of general revenue
23 appropriations in the Department of Health.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
March 11, 1997
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 6 is recommend
4 entering the final order granting the
5 School Board's amended petition for exemption
6 from certain requirements of Chapter 120.
7 I have some folks here who would like to
8 present. Perhaps if I could introduce them --
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I'd like to move
10 approval --
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll second.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- to grant exemption.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
14 moved and --
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
18 Listen --
19 DR. BRADLEY: Well, would you like to hear
20 from Senator Williams?
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Fine.
22 DR. BRADLEY: And we also have, I think,
23 Representative Crady, a Scott Hilliard, who
24 would be up here, and --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Senator.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
March 11, 1997
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1 SENATOR WILLIAMS: Thank you.
2 Governor, members of --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
4 SENATOR WILLIAMS: -- the Cabinet.
5 Last year, when we totally rewrote, for the
6 first time in about 20 years, the Administrative
7 Procedures Act, there was one exception that we
8 failed to include in that, and that is an
9 exception for the 67 school districts in
10 Florida.
11 And the bill as it is -- or the law as it
12 is now, requires that they publish in the
13 Florida Administrative Weekly, and there was not
14 an intent to do that.
15 We have a glitch bill that we're working on
16 that will include that exception. And I do
17 strongly recommend that you do that. That will
18 save our school districts some expense between
19 now and the time that we get our glitch bill
20 done.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Senator, we've had a
22 question about the community colleges. My
23 understanding, we're going to extend this at the
24 next Cabinet meeting to the community colleges.
25 Are they included in the glitch bill as
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1 well?
2 SENATOR WILLIAMS: Well, that is an issue
3 that we are talking to them, and I understand
4 some of the water control districts also are
5 looking at that.
6 But we have not made a decision as to
7 whether we believe that all of those special
8 groups should be exempted from 120.
9 But we -- I am talking to them. And
10 whatever we believe is right there, we will
11 include in the glitch bill, Commissioner.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you, sir.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
14 SENATOR WILLIAMS: Thank you.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Appreciate your
16 appearance.
17 DR. BRADLEY: I think that's --
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
19 seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
22 concluded.)
23 *
24
25
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1 DR. BRADLEY: The --
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Land and Water
3 Adjudicatory Commission.
4 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1 is request
5 approval of the minutes of --
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, they're approved.
10 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2 is request
11 deferral of this issue to March 25th, 1997 --
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move the
13 deferral.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3 is request
20 authorization for the secretary of the
21 Commission to enter draft final order.
22 You, I believe, have in front of you some
23 written comments from Mr. and Mrs. Jacob, since
24 they're unable to attend this meeting, and
25 I think you have those in front of you.
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1 We're requesting authorization to enter the
2 order.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3, this item was
9 withdrawn, I believe.
10 Number 4. I'm sorry.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Four is withdrawn.
12 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 5 is authorize
13 the Secretary of the Commission to enter a draft
14 final order.
15 We have a number of people here to speak on
16 this if -- with your approval, we'd like to
17 limit the minutes on each side to 10 minutes to
18 each side.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Very good.
20 DR. BRADLEY: Okay. The first person to
21 speak will be Steve Pfeiffer, Assistant
22 Secretary of the Department of
23 Community Affairs.
24 He has about 3 minutes.
25 MR. PFEIFFER: Secretary Murley is speaking
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1 before a legislative committee, and he asked
2 that I address these issues with you this
3 morning.
4 This case involves a development order
5 that's issued by Monroe County within the area
6 of Critical State Concern in the Florida Keys.
7 The developer is Charles River
8 Laboratories. CRL uses Key Lois and Raccoon Key
9 within the Florida Keys for breeding rhesus
10 monkeys. They're used for research.
11 At one time, there were as many as
12 6,000 monkeys on these two islands. There are
13 now approximately 200 monkeys on Key Lois, and
14 1,000 on Raccoon Key.
15 The development order was issued after the
16 facts -- fact. In other words, CRL undertook
17 the development activity without any permit, and
18 then after being told by Monroe County that a
19 development order was required, applied for it,
20 and Monroe County issued it. The development
21 order allowed CRL to construct the field cage on
22 Key Lois, and three feeding stations on --
23 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
24 MR. PFEIFFER: -- Raccoon Key that they had
25 already constructed.
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1 The Department appealed the development
2 order in accordance with our responsibilities
3 under Chapter 380, Florida Statutes. A formal
4 administrative hearing was conducted by an
5 Administrative Law Judge. He issued a
6 recommended order, and that is what is before
7 you this morning.
8 I want to emphasize several of the
9 administrative law judge's findings. First, the
10 use that CRL makes of the two islands is
11 inconsistent with the offshore island
12 designation, or OS designation, that is set out
13 in the Monroe County code. CRL's use of the
14 islands for commercial multi-raising enterprises
15 is a nonconforming use.
16 Second, the two Keys are vulnerable to
17 hurricanes, and the structures on them will
18 likely be obliterated if a major hurricane were
19 to strike the area.
20 Third, the building activity undertaken on
21 these two islands by CRL is development, as
22 defined by the Monroe County code.
23 Fourth, a building permit from
24 Monroe County was required for the building
25 activity.
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1 Fifth, the open space analysis performed by
2 CRL was flawed, and the structures do not comply
3 with the open space requirements under the
4 Monroe County land development regulations.
5 Sixth, the structures do not comply with
6 shoreline setbacks required by the Monroe County
7 land development regulations.
8 Most significantly, the hearing officer
9 found that in the process of pulling leaves off
10 the mangroves, the monkeys strip bark and break
11 branches from the mangroves. The adverse impact
12 to the mangroves is evident, with dead mangroves
13 being observed in large quantities on both
14 islands.
15 Because Key Lois is a sand key, the absence
16 of mangroves to stabilize its shorelines, and to
17 break or absorb wave energy, has contributed to
18 erosion.
19 Nutrients from fecal waste and food reach
20 the nearshore waters of both islands. The
21 excessive nutrient loading has contributed to
22 algal blooms and the degradation of nearshore
23 waters.
24 Finally, the subject permit --
25 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
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1 MR. PFEIFFER: -- does not comply with the
2 Monroe County Comprehensive Plan and land
3 development regulations, and no changes to the
4 permit would render them consistent.
5 Now, as the Administration Commission, you
6 have recently taken some of the most dramatic,
7 and I believe, important action that has ever
8 been taken with regard to protection of the
9 fragile and precious resources of the
10 Florida Keys.
11 You determined last year that the
12 Comprehensive Plan adopted by Monroe County was
13 not consistent with state law, and you directed
14 that important steps be taken to eliminate the
15 negative impact of cesspits and septic systems
16 in the Florida Keys.
17 Together with our partners, which include
18 the Department of Environmental Protection, the
19 Department of Health, the Federal Army Corps of
20 Engineers, and Monroe County, we are striving to
21 develop advanced wastewater treatment
22 facilities, both systems and individual
23 facilities that will replace the existing
24 systems, and that will stop the degradation of
25 nearshore waters and the threat that that
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1 degradation causes to the coral reef systems in
2 the Keys.
3 We believe that it would be dreadfully
4 inconsistent for us to insist on these actions
5 being taken by human inhabitants, that is going
6 to cost them money, that is going to force them
7 to belly-up to improve their septic systems,
8 while at the same time, allowing degradation of
9 the environment they are witn-- we are
10 witnessing on Key Lois and Raccoon Key.
11 We recognize that the action that is being
12 recommended by the staff, which the Department
13 supports, is a first step.
14 The Department of Community Affairs has,
15 under the proposed order, been directed to
16 initiate enforcement action. We're prepared to
17 do that, and will do that when this order is
18 signed.
19 And it would be our intent to pursue that
20 enforcement action vigorously.
21 The Department of Environmental Protection
22 and the Game and Fresh --
23 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
24 MR. PFEIFFER: -- Water Fish Commission
25 have been in active discussions with us. They
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1 also are taking action with regard to the issue
2 of -- of monkey farming on these Keys.
3 The Department of Environmental Protection
4 has legal proceedings that are pending with
5 regard to settlement agreements that were not
6 complied with, and will activate those
7 proceedings.
8 And I believe is scheduled to report to you
9 two meetings from now.
10 The Game and Fresh Water Fish Commission
11 also has some orders -- has a recommended order
12 before it with regard to conditions that it has
13 imposed on continuing breeding of monkeys on
14 these islands.
15 The Department of Community Affairs
16 supports the staff recommendation.
17 I would be happy to answer any questions.
18 Thank you.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
20 DR. BRADLEY: Next we'd like to hear from
21 Bob Routa of -- representing Charles River
22 Laboratories.
23 MR. ROUTA: Good morning, Governor, members
24 of the Board. I'm Bob Routa of Tallahassee
25 representing Charles River Laboratories.
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1 Charles River Laboratories is a nationally
2 respected public health firm, and has been
3 operating its monkey breeding facilities in the
4 Florida Keys since the early 1970s.
5 As it's come into the Keys, it received all
6 necessary permits from all of the affected
7 agencies, and it has been caught up in changing
8 environmental times.
9 It received its first permit from the Board
10 of Trustees in the early 1970s to blow a channel
11 out with a tugboat. Now, we understand that's
12 not being done today. But that sets the
13 framework for the way this company started with
14 a lot of early companies in the Keys. And the
15 company has had to adapt to changing
16 environmental conditions.
17 This argument is based upon a record on
18 appeal. We have a continuing objection to
19 matters outside the record, and parties outside
20 of the record participating.
21 But a lot of questions have been raised.
22 First and foremost, why is Charles River raising
23 these animals in the Keys?
24 Well, the first exhibit I brought, which
25 was Charles River's Exhibit number 18, is a
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1 letter to the Governor dated June 27th, 1996.
2 It's from the United States Department of Health
3 and Human Services.
4 Part of the things that are related there,
5 it says, thousands of rhesus monkeys produced by
6 Charles River Laboratories on these islands has
7 served as extremely valuable models for
8 biomedical research inception to biologically
9 improve the quality of human health.
10 These rhesus monkeys breeding operations
11 serve as a vital national resource for numerous
12 human health related investigations, including
13 many AIDS research projects.
14 Governor, members of the Board, this is a
15 balancing of competing national interests, and
16 we know there has been a great deal of concern
17 lately about public health.
18 We have been dealing with the
19 recommendation of Judge Arrington, which said
20 that Charles River Laboratories should not have
21 to demolish its structures, but should have the
22 opportunity to seek a variance and a
23 comprehensive plan amendment.
24 It is only very recently we have learned of
25 the staff recommendation calling for the
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1 demolition of these particular structures.
2 And the next question is, what are the
3 structures?
4 This is an enlargement of Charles Rivers'
5 Exhibit number 5, which is a photograph of the
6 three structures at issue on Raccoon Key. These
7 are trapping structures, trapping and feeding
8 structures. These are the way that the animals
9 are removed from the islands. They're simple
10 structures, they have metal sides, the animals
11 can go into them to obtain food.
12 When it's necessary to trap the animals,
13 the side entrances are closed, the animals go
14 over the top, they're unable to come back out.
15 And that is the way that the animals are removed
16 from the islands.
17 There are three of these structures on
18 Raccoon Key that has the largest free range
19 population remaining.
20 If we take these structures down, there
21 will be no way to get the animals off the
22 islands. I wonder if staff is suggesting that
23 we shoot the animals, because that's about what
24 we'd be left with.
25 And these structures were mandated by this
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1 Board that we build these structures.
2 Charles River Laboratories entered into
3 consent orders with the Department of
4 Environmental Regulation to change the operation
5 to go from a free range activity, to a caged
6 activity. And we were instructed and directed
7 by the Department of Environmental Regulation to
8 build these three structures in these three
9 locations.
10 And then those consent orders were
11 incorporated into a consent judgment between
12 Charles River and the Board of Trustees, which
13 was approved by the Governor and Cabinet as the
14 Board of Trustees, directing us to build these
15 structures. These are the same structures now
16 that staff is suggesting that we destroy.
17 Very briefly, this is a photograph, CRL
18 Exhibit 4, of the one structure at issue on
19 Key Lois. This structure -- this footprint of
20 this cage has been there since the early 1970s.
21 It had some solid sides that was pre-built into
22 a fenced field cage structure, again in direct
23 response to the consent order entered into with
24 the Department, and the consent judgment entered
25 by Judge Taylor down in the Florida Keys. And
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1 this is what staff is suggesting you direct us
2 to remove.
3 Where are we going to put the animals if we
4 take out the field cages? How can we catch them
5 if we take out the traps?
6 There is a tremendous amount of
7 misinformation that is being generated. There's
8 a great deal of information in the press, by
9 telephone -- television, news reports that have
10 been provided to the Board, and a lot of
11 information that is simply not true.
12 Judge Arrington sat in this case, looked at
13 the evidence, and did not recommend these
14 structures be taken out.
15 Just to demonstrate what I've been saying,
16 this is -- get it oriented properly.
17 This is the DCA's Exhibit Number 2. This
18 is Key Lois. This is the breeding pen that is
19 at issue.
20 This is CRL's Exhibit 9. This is directly
21 from the consent order.
22 Here it is right here, C3. Identically the
23 same location. We were told to build it. Now
24 staff is asking you to tell us to take it out.
25 Similarly, CRL Exhibit 10, taken directly
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1 from the consent order. This also is in the
2 consent final judgment. Feeding station 1, 2,
3 and 3. Here we have them. The permit documents
4 at issue, 1, 2, and 3. Identical location.
5 Almost identical. The Hearing Officer
6 found, based on testimony in the record, that in
7 the field, the Department of Environmental
8 Regulation asked us to move the location of
9 these structures slightly. So they were moved,
10 and that's where we got in trouble, because we
11 were asked to move them to less environmentally
12 sensitive areas by the Department of
13 Environmental Regulation field biologists.
14 We are really between a rock and a hard
15 place. We have to provide contractual
16 obligations for these animals for public health
17 purposes. We have to trap them with the very
18 traps that you're being asked to tell us to take
19 out. Everyone agrees that we should reduce the
20 free range population. But staff is telling us
21 to take out the traps that do it. This makes no
22 sense.
23 We just -- we will not be able to continue
24 reducing the free range population. And
25 Charles River Laboratories is voluntarily
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1 reducing the free range population in excess
2 above what was required in the consent orders.
3 We ask that you consider Judge Arrington's
4 recommendation. It's a reasonable
5 recommendation. We ask that you not direct us
6 to remove the very structures which are the
7 integral part of reducing the environmental
8 impact.
9 Be glad to answer any questions.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question?
11 Thank you, sir.
12 TREASURER NELSON: Governor?
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
14 TREASURER NELSON: I'd like the Department
15 to respond.
16 Could a representative of the Department --
17 Would you address the specific questions
18 that the gentleman has raised?
19 MR. PFEIFFER: First off, with the -- with
20 regard to the issue of removal of the cages.
21 Staff has recommended that the Department
22 initiate an enforcement action that would direct
23 itself toward removal of the cages that were
24 built inconsistently with Monroe County land
25 development regulations.
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1 That enforcement action --
2 TREASURER NELSON: I don't understand what
3 that meant.
4 MR. PFEIFFER: All right.
5 TREASURER NELSON: What's in front of us is
6 a FLAWAC recommendation that is to enter a draft
7 final order requiring removal of the feeding
8 station and breeding pens.
9 Now, would you put it in the context of
10 what's before us?
11 MR. PFEIFFER: Well, perhaps if I could
12 consult with Ms. Leighty. If I have -- am
13 holding the wrong order in my hand, I need to
14 know that. I --
15 It's the bottom of page 5 of the order,
16 Treasurer Nelson, that provides that the
17 Commission would direct the Department to
18 immediately begin an enforcement action for the
19 removal of the four subject structures.
20 And I'm sorry I misunderstood your
21 question.
22 And that the removal of these structures
23 must comply with the Monroe County land
24 development regulations.
25 That would be a new proceeding. That
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1 proceeding is somewhat different than this one,
2 in that the Department of Community Affairs
3 would have final order authority.
4 That proceeding also would be subject to
5 this developer's right to request a formal
6 administrative hearing. And all of the issues
7 with regard to removal of the cage and impact of
8 removal of the cages would have to be addressed
9 in that proceeding in a formal hearing before an
10 Administrative Law Judge, just as this one was.
11 TREASURER NELSON: Well, can you address
12 the equity of the argument that the gentleman
13 just raised.
14 MR. PFEIFFER: Yes, sir. In the first
15 place, there was a consent order issued between
16 the Department of Environmental Protection -- or
17 excuse me -- the Department of Environmental
18 then Regulation, and this developer.
19 The Department of Environmental Protection
20 contends that the consent agreement has never
21 been complied with. The Department of
22 Environmental Protection contends that the cages
23 were not located in the manner that was
24 specified in the consent order. Those are
25 issues that have been raised in Circuit Court,
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1 and are eligible to be raised again by the
2 Department of Environmental Protection.
3 One of the provisions of the consent order
4 was that the cages would be built consistently
5 with local government, land development
6 regulations, and permitting requirements.
7 That was not done, and that's what this
8 hearing -- this hearing officer -- this
9 recommended order states as findings of fact
10 from the Administrative Law Judge.
11 So what they were required to do is to get
12 a permit from the -- from Monroe County, and to
13 build the cages consistently with Monroe County
14 land development regulations, and that is what
15 they did not do. And that's the subject of this
16 proceeding.
17 TREASURER NELSON: Do you contend that they
18 are in a location separate from what the consent
19 order allowed?
20 MR. PFEIFFER: I believe that that is an
21 issue of fact that would need to be resolved in
22 the judicial proceeding, Mr. Nelson.
23 But it would be our -- our contention that
24 they did not construct those cages consistently
25 with the locational requirements. In fact, the
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1 consent order required that representatives of
2 the Department of Environmental Protection would
3 be at the site, lay flags, these kinds of
4 things.
5 I'm certainly talking about things that are
6 outside the record of this case. But it is the
7 contention of the Department of Environmental
8 Protection that they were not constructed in
9 accordance with the consent decree.
10 We feel that there are two possible
11 approaches to be taken here, and one is to
12 develop a comprehensive system for eliminating
13 the free ranging of monkeys on this island so
14 that they would be in cages, and be in cages
15 that are constructed in a manner that's
16 consistent with the land development regulations
17 in Monroe County.
18 If it can't be consistent with the land
19 development regulations in Monroe County, it is
20 done in a manner that will protect the crucial
21 resources, being the mangroves and nearshore
22 water quality.
23 So any system that is devised for continued
24 monkey breeding on the islands, we contend,
25 should be done in a manner that would protect
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1 the mangroves; protect nearshore waters; and, in
2 view of the rather long history of this project,
3 ensure compliance through a bond.
4 Alternatively, the island should not be
5 used any longer for monkey breeding --
6 TREASURER NELSON: Is --
7 MR. PFEIFFER: -- in our view.
8 TREASURER NELSON: -- is there a question
9 of fact that still needs to be determined here
10 that you would take to a separate proceeding,
11 and that fact would be determined?
12 MR. PFEIFFER: As to whether the cages
13 would be removed?
14 TREASURER NELSON: As to the location of
15 the cages, and their adequacy and so forth,
16 according to the original consent order.
17 MR. PFEIFFER: Yes, sir.
18 TREASURER NELSON: There is? And what --
19 MR. PFEIFFER: I think that there are
20 potentially issues of fact. An enforcement
21 action would begin with a Notice of Intent
22 issued by the Department of Community Affairs
23 that would give the developer an opportunity to
24 request a formal hearing, and to -- at that
25 point assert whether there are issues of fact.
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1 And I think, potentially, certainly there are
2 issues of fact.
3 The issue of fact that we think is very
4 clear in the record of this case that is before
5 you is that these cages were constructed
6 inconsistent with the Monroe County
7 Comprehensive Plan, and inconsistent with the
8 Monroe County land development regulations.
9 And that's the ultimate conclusion that
10 we're asked to be reached -- we're asking be
11 reached here.
12 TREASURER NELSON: And is that the issue
13 that you are asking us to conclude by this
14 vote?
15 MR. PFEIFFER: Yes, sir. And it's what the
16 hearing officer determined is a fact, and what
17 he determined is a -- the legally correct
18 determination based on the facts.
19 MR. ROUTA: Governor, may I respond to that
20 very briefly?
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Quickly.
22 MR. ROUTA: This is an example of the
23 incorrect information that is being given to
24 this Board. We went through a very expensive
25 administrative hearing before Judge Arrington.
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1 The issue was just what counsel for the
2 Department now wants us to go through another
3 administrative hearing to contest.
4 Finding of fact 66: The structures
5 referred to by the consent order is FS2, FS3,
6 and FS4 are referred to by the development order
7 as Feeding Stations 1, 2, and 3.
8 These three feeding stations were moved
9 short distances to less environmentally
10 sensitive areas at the direction of FDER. But
11 they remain in the approximate location as they
12 were prior to the adoption of the
13 Comprehensive Plan.
14 We ask that perhaps maybe a deferral so
15 your staff could look at this record, look at
16 what went before the Administrative Law Judge.
17 Don't send this to another administrative
18 hearing to litigate the same issues, please.
19 DR. BRADLEY: We -- we have two more people
20 on the other side: Richard Grosso, and
21 Eva Armstrong. They have 5 minutes left. The
22 attorney for the DCA had taken the first
23 5 minutes.
24 So, Richard Grosso, who's representing
25 Curtis Kruer, will get two-and-a-half minutes.
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1 MR. GROSSO: Thank you.
2 Good morning, Governor Chiles, members of
3 the Cabinet. I'm Richard Grosso. I represent
4 Curtis Kruer. He's a long-time biologist and
5 fishing guide in the Florida Keys.
6 He, like dozens of Agency personnel, have
7 observed the impacts of these activities since
8 they started in the mid 1970s. The history is
9 as compelling as anything I have ever seen in
10 the Florida Keys, in the State of Florida, in
11 terms of the violations and the gross
12 environmental destruction.
13 There are a number of illegal structures at
14 these islands, including the ones at issue
15 today. While the finding of fact Mr. Routa just
16 read to you does say these structures are in the
17 approximate location that the consent orders in
18 the '80s told them to be, approximate in the
19 context of these islands is it's in a mangrove,
20 now it's not in a mangrove.
21 You know, approximate -- the difference of
22 3, 4, 5, 10 feet is significant when you talk
23 about the elevations and the habitat types on
24 these islands.
25 These structures are not placed in the
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1 exact locations that the consent order suggested
2 structures be put.
3 Very importantly, those -- that consent
4 order done by the Trustees, who only had
5 jurisdiction in wetlands, specifically said,
6 we're not telling you this complies with local
7 code, you need to get any local permits.
8 They didn't. They just went and put the
9 structures on the islands, never got the local
10 permits that were required.
11 That's one huge violation of the consent
12 orders. DEP has moved to enforce those consent
13 orders in front of Judge Sandy Taylor on the
14 basis of gross and material violations has
15 sought removal of all monkeys. We're asking
16 them to call that up in front of the judge.
17 But the point is, this company cannot come
18 to you and claim that it has all these rights
19 under these consent orders that it itself has
20 breached continuously and repeatedly, almost
21 since the day the ink was dry on those consent
22 orders.
23 It's an extremely important point. They
24 want to tell you today, you should allow us to
25 violate the Monroe County code because these
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1 consent orders gave us the right to do it. Yet
2 they have violated those consent orders; have
3 been in violation of them for many, many years.
4 There is no equity here that -- on the part
5 of the State, in terms of how you've misled
6 them, that would cause you to have to violate
7 the Monroe County code to let this company stay
8 in business.
9 There are alternative -- it is time for
10 these activities to cease in the Florida Keys
11 and be relocated. This company has other
12 facilities on mainland where they can breed
13 monkeys.
14 The hurricane vulnerability of these areas,
15 the environmental sensitivity of the
16 Florida Keys, I -- you know of the environmental
17 sensitivity of the Florida Keys.
18 This is the worst possible location you
19 could ever think of to breed rhesus monkeys. We
20 have the strictest rules in the state of Florida
21 in Monroe County.
22 The reason that these permits violate the
23 code, and why you should follow staff's
24 recommendation is, there are three types of uses
25 that are allowed in offshore island zoning
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1 designation. This is not one of them. Very
2 clear. There's no doubt about it.
3 There's a setback requirement. They don't
4 meet the setback requirement. Those are the two
5 reasons why there's no doubt that the final
6 order has to issue to deny these permits.
7 The hurricane issue is huge. We have been
8 so lucky in the Keys. We haven't had a major
9 hurricane since this operation has begun in the
10 early '70s. Our luck is going to run out very
11 soon in the Florida Keys.
12 We suggest to you that this company be
13 given one hurricane season, but not two more.
14 The structures that Mr. Routa pointed out to
15 you, they should be allowed to stay till the end
16 of this year on Key Lois, and till May 30th of
17 1998 on Raccoon Key.
18 Within that period of time, they could be
19 gathering up their monkeys, putting them in
20 those cages, and then relocating them.
21 You should let them stay that long, but
22 only that long. That's -- that's the equity in
23 that matter.
24 You should not allow the agencies to
25 discuss -- the agencies have bent over backwards
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1 with this company to try to find a settlement to
2 try to let them stay in business. The company
3 has been unreasonable.
4 Any settlement would allow more structures
5 of the kind that violate the code of the kind
6 that are before you today to be built. The only
7 way to settle and to let them stay in business
8 is to allow several times over the kinds of
9 violations that we think you are about to not
10 agree to today. It is time for these activities
11 to cease as soon as possible.
12 The information has not come from the
13 agencies, it does not come from the public in
14 this case.
15 We are asking you as members of the public,
16 who can no longer fish the areas surrounding
17 those islands, to put an end to these
18 activities, deny these permits, and restore
19 these islands back to the people of the state of
20 Florida.
21 Be happy to answer any questions.
22 My client, Mr. Kruer, a biologist, is also
23 here to answer any scientific or factual
24 questions that you might have.
25 Thank you very much.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
2 DR. BRADLEY: Eva Armstrong had waived her
3 time, Governor.
4 That's -- unless you have any questions,
5 that's all the further testimony.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
7 DR. BRADLEY: Back on --
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I move the
12 authorization of the Secretary to enter the
13 final draft order.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 DR. BRADLEY: Okay.
18 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
19 Commission Agenda was concluded.)
20 *
21
22
23
24
25
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Trustees.
2 MS. WETHERELL: Item 1, minutes.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move minutes.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Madam Secretary, just
5 before we take that up. As I understand it, the
6 Department of Environmental Protection is
7 pursuing its motion to enforce action against
8 Charles River Lab for violations of the previous
9 consent order and lease agreement.
10 In light of the action that was just taken
11 by the Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
12 Commission, I hope your Agency will put this
13 item on the April 15th Board of Trustees agenda
14 to advise the Board of any and all violations
15 that you believe have occurred, and recommend
16 appropriate action.
17 I also ask you to invite the Game and Fresh
18 Water Fish Commission to review its criteria for
19 permitting for captive wildlife.
20 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, sir, we will do that.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
22 MS. WETHERELL: All right. Item 1,
23 minutes.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second -- motion.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, minutes are adopted.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Item 2, quarterly
5 management report.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move acceptance.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without object, it's approved.
10 MS. WETHERELL: Item 3, two option
11 agreements for Green Swamp CARL project.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, they're approved.
16 MS. WETHERELL: Item 4, conveyance of two
17 parcels of accreted sovereign land.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 5 -- and we
23 have three speakers on this item -- the
24 authorization to close on the Kissimmee Prairie
25 CARL project.
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1 If I could call on Bill Malone from the
2 District, the Water Management District has been
3 in the lead in this item through an agreement
4 with the Department.
5 And if I can bring him forward first.
6 While he's coming up, why don't I go ahead
7 and call on Dr. Paul Gray from National Audubon
8 if he's in the room.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
10 MR. MALONE: Governor, members of the
11 Cabinet, I apologize.
12 I'm Bill Malone. I'm the Director of
13 Construction of Land Management for the
14 Water Management District in south Florida.
15 In doing our due diligence on this piece of
16 property, we became aware of the prior use of
17 the property by the Department of the Defense.
18 We have, as I believe you're aware, closed
19 on several thousand acres that lies immediately
20 west of this parcel, that is adjacent to the
21 Kissimmee River, and will be a part of the
22 Kissimmee River Restoration Project.
23 It was immediately clear that we could not
24 proceed with closing on this particular piece of
25 land without working through the issues
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1 associated with the prior use of the property.
2 After a good deal of effort, we were able
3 to get a draft report from the
4 Corps of Engineers late last fall that discussed
5 the prior use of the property; and we got a
6 final report dated January 15th of 1997.
7 There has also been correspondence between
8 us and the Corps of Engineers on this issue.
9 It is clear from all this documentation
10 that -- that the Federal government acknowledges
11 that this is a Federal problem that they are
12 responsible for, and that the landowner is not
13 responsible for the clearance of these
14 properties that were used back in World War II.
15 However, it is also clear that the property
16 has little, if any, priority in the Federal
17 system for any expectation that it would be
18 cleared in the near term.
19 We commissioned a consultant to look at the
20 issues associated with the use of the property
21 by the Department of Defense. We did not ask
22 the consultant to evaluate the accuracy of the
23 Corps of Engineers' report.
24 We asked the consultant simply to give us
25 feedback as to what we needed to do in order to
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1 deal with the potential for unexploded ordnance
2 to remain on the property. And -- and we have
3 their recommendations which have been provided
4 to your staff.
5 On February 13th, we took this to our
6 governing board in West Palm Beach. And after
7 extensive discussion of the pros and cons, and
8 the -- and the risks, our Board concluded
9 that -- that this was a risk that they were
10 willing to share in with the State of Florida,
11 subject to the following conditions: A), the
12 target areas and the flyways which comprise
13 approximately 10 percent of the property,
14 roughly 3800 acres in five different locations,
15 should be closed to the public, should be
16 affirmatively closed with fencing and the
17 appropriate posting, until and unless they are
18 clear -- cleared by the Federal government.
19 We also believe that the public should be
20 fully informed as to the prior use of the
21 property, and that the -- and that the perimeter
22 of the property itself, the entrance ways to the
23 property, should be appropriately marked.
24 We also intend to work hard to get the
25 Federal priority raised on this -- cleanup of
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1 this property. And I'm advised that our general
2 counsel and the Department's general counsel are
3 working together on correspondence to the
4 Federal government to request that they assume
5 the immediate responsibility for the appropriate
6 fencing and posting of the target areas and
7 flyways.
8 Our Board voted, as I indicated, to go
9 ahead, contingent upon the partnership with the
10 State, as I believe the Secretary has outlined
11 to you and is in your agenda item.
12 I do want to touch on the issue of access
13 to the property briefly.
14 We have found evidence of public
15 rights-of-way to this property, both from the
16 north from the Osceola County side, as well as
17 from Okeechobee County.
18 We have every reason to expect that the
19 insurance title company will ensure legal access
20 to this property, and, in fact, that insurance
21 is a prerequisite to closing.
22 However, there are private land owners in
23 both -- in the Osceola side and the Okeechobee
24 side, that have undertaken to construct gates
25 across these rights-of-way. We expect to work
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1 with Okeechobee County and with the Division of
2 State Lands to resolve that so that public
3 access will come from Okeechobee County to the
4 property.
5 And I have no reason to believe that that
6 would take a substantial length of time. I have
7 reasonable confidence that that could be done
8 prior to the time that the target areas and
9 flyways could be fenced and posted.
10 I'll be happy to answer questions.
11 I do have with me a professional from our
12 staff who can answer detailed technical
13 questions with regard to the ordnance issues on
14 the property.
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, I'd like
16 to ask --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, Commissioner.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- a question.
19 Was the -- the price determined on this
20 property prior to the disclosure of the -- of
21 the bombs on the property?
22 MR. MALONE: Yes, sir, it was. The
23 purchase price is approximately 85 percent of
24 the appraisal. What we have done subsequently
25 is ask the appraiser to reevaluate the appraisal
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1 based on the new information.
2 And I believe you've been provided a copy
3 of a letter from the appraiser. It is
4 qualitative, as opposed to quantitative. But he
5 spoke to three specific issues: One, it is his
6 judgment that if the property would be cleared
7 in a reasonable length of time, that there would
8 not be a significant impact on value.
9 The issue there, of course, is what's a
10 reasonable length of time.
11 He also looked at stigma impact, and
12 concluded that if the property is cleared in a
13 responsible way, that there should be little,
14 if any, stigma.
15 Interestingly, he also opined that there
16 may be an enhancement to value. This property
17 is largely native range. And in areas that have
18 to be physically cleared, that would probably be
19 replanted with domestic grasses, which would be
20 improved pasture, and might have a higher value.
21 He did not attempt to put a number on those
22 downsides and upsides. But our judgment in
23 reading the correspondence was that he felt that
24 the impact would not be substantial.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: If the -- if the --
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1 if the Federal government is not going to pay
2 for it, and we have to pay for it, how much is
3 that going to cost?
4 MR. MALONE: The estimates vary, depending
5 on how much of the property is cleared. But if
6 the -- if the clearance is limited to the areas
7 that the park would be developed upon, if we do
8 not undertake to clear the target areas and the
9 flyways, which is our recommendation, then we're
10 probably talking in terms of four million
11 dollars or less to clear the construction areas.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Uh-hum. If you --
13 and if you cleared it all --
14 MR. MALONE: Those estimates range up to
15 about fifteen million dollars, I believe.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: You know, my
17 understanding is, one, the Federal Government
18 does assume responsibility. This is their
19 responsibility ultimately. It's a question of
20 when they want to do it. But --
21 MR. MALONE: Yes, sir. They have -- they
22 have put in writing that they believe that this
23 is --
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
25 MR. MALONE: -- their responsibility.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Number two, I know you've
2 got an estimate of ten, eleven million dollars
3 to clear that. I'll have to tell you, for
4 3200 acres, I just can't get my mind around how
5 they charge that kind of money.
6 I believe I would do it for a lot cheaper
7 than that if you just give me a little mine
8 detector, and pay my money, and I'll go find the
9 damn bomb if it's out there. You know, I just
10 can't possibly get my mind around that, that
11 they're talking about that kind of funds.
12 But what you're saying is we'd have to --
13 your plan is to fence off about 10 percent of
14 this for now, and then try to speed up your
15 negotiations with the -- with the Corps to get
16 them to go on and assume their responsibility.
17 MR. MALONE: Yes, sir.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: But -- but if
19 you -- I guess what I'm just interested in, if
20 it was eleven to fifteen million dollars to
21 clean up the site, are you saying that you --
22 are you saying that you didn't take -- and
23 I guess the appraiser did not take that into
24 consideration with the appraisal.
25 If he didn't know about it, I guess he
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1 couldn't have taken it.
2 MR. MALONE: He did not -- we did not know
3 about it, nor did he, obviously. We've asked
4 him after the fact to evaluate based on that new
5 information.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
8 MR. KUKLESKI: Yes. My name is
9 Robert Kukleski. I'm the environmental engineer
10 with the South Florida Water Management
11 District.
12 I'm responsible for the Preacquisition
13 Environmental Assessment Program, a portion of
14 which was associated with the acquisition of
15 this property.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Any questions?
17 MS. WETHERELL: Okay.
18 I call Dr. Paul Gray.
19 DR. GRAY: Hello.
20 Thank you. My name is Paul Gray, and I
21 manage the Audubon Society's Kissimmee Prairie
22 Santuary, which is directly adjacent to the
23 Latt Maxcy property in Okeechobee County.
24 I came up here today, and I'm hand
25 delivering a letter from the County
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1 Administrator, George Long, which I will give to
2 you; and a Certified Copy of the Okeechobee
3 Board of County Commissioners' resolution on
4 this property.
5 Many of you have probably seen this
6 resolution already, it was passed about a year
7 ago. And the County said that -- the
8 Commissioners said that they supported the idea
9 of taking this property and turning it into a
10 State park if, indeed, it was going to be the
11 type of park that would attract a lot of
12 tourists and generate revenue for the community.
13 Obviously Okeechobee would like to have a
14 diversified economic base. So one of the things
15 they wanted was revenue for the county, a very
16 good tourist program.
17 The second thing that they wanted in
18 this -- and you can read it -- is they wanted
19 the access roads to the property being from the
20 south through Okeechobee County. That way the
21 tourists that did come would be in the county
22 and spend their money there.
23 And the third thing they wanted was to
24 participate in the Payment in Lieu of Taxes
25 Program for ten years after the park was bought
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1 to help make up for revenues that might be lost
2 having the land bought.
3 And so I have this resolution for you.
4 It's been certified by the clerk, and I'd like
5 to give it into the official records.
6 And I'll just briefly read George Long's
7 cover letter. George is the County
8 Administrator.
9 Says: Honorable Governor Chiles and
10 Cabinet members. Enclosed herewith is a copy of
11 resolution number 95-46, expressing the Board of
12 County Commissioners' qualified support for the
13 priority ranking and State acquisition of
14 certain land, known as the Latt Maxcy property,
15 for near term development as an ecotourism
16 attraction, preferably as a State park.
17 Such development has potential to
18 significantly compliment the County's efforts to
19 diversify its economic base, which continues to
20 suffer.
21 Furthermore, acquisition and appropriate
22 development of this particular site, in
23 combination with the Kissimmee River restoration
24 project and the Okeechobee Scenic Trail, will
25 collectively constitute a world class
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1 environmental preservation achievement of world
2 class proportion.
3 I strongly urge you to support this
4 acquisition, and the benefits to future
5 generations that it will represent.
6 Sincerely, George Long, County
7 Administrator.
8 And that's pretty much the County's
9 position. They would like to see this
10 acquisition go through. They would like to see
11 a wonderful park made out of this. And that
12 way, not only we can make money off it, but we
13 would have a wonderful thing.
14 This park actually is -- is -- represents
15 the heritage of our community. It's the
16 prairies that the original cow hunters went out
17 on.
18 So I'm not sure who I should give this
19 to --
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor, I'd like to
21 ask him a question.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Sir, if -- if, in fact,
24 the Federal government decided that they weren't
25 going to pick up the tab for this eleven to
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1 whatever million dollars, are you representing
2 that the County would pick that up?
3 DR. GRAY: I don't think the County would
4 have any interest in that at all. They want to
5 see the park be made into a park. If there's
6 ordnance issues, I don't think that they would
7 want to -- I don't think it's -- they would feel
8 that it would be their responsibility.
9 Just -- if I could speak as a local -- and
10 I'm taking off my County hat now. I work for
11 Audubon, and I've been in Okeechobee for about
12 ten years. And I've never heard of any problems
13 with ordnance.
14 And so I asked Rod Chandler, who was an
15 Audubon warden for 30 years. And Rod likes to
16 tell everybody he's older than
17 Okeechobee County. He was born there, but he's
18 not from there.
19 And I asked him, and he's never heard of
20 any accidents or incidents of either people or
21 livestock or vehicles or anything having any
22 trouble with unexploded bombs or any accidents.
23 And, indeed, I haven't found anybody in the
24 County that has any memory in history. And
25 there -- like the Coquina Development Area,
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1 which is just south of us is the Coquina Water
2 Control District, they built 220 miles of
3 roadways around a target site in a 25-square
4 mile area, and they never had any problems.
5 Of course, a lot of those pastures have
6 been improved and plowed, and there's been
7 cattle and hogs and all that.
8 And the locals down there just were kind of
9 surprised that this became an issue, because it
10 just hasn't seemed to be a problem for us. And,
11 you know, I can't say that there aren't any
12 bombs out there, but we just haven't had any
13 trouble.
14 So -- just from a local perspective, that's
15 my two cents worth on that.
16 Actually, our sanctuary was also used as
17 part of the bombing range. And I've never
18 experienced any problem.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, but are you
20 suggesting that if, in fact, the Federal
21 government decided that they didn't want to pick
22 up this eleven million dollar added charge, that
23 the State should not deal with this problem --
24 or perceived problem?
25 DR. GRAY: I -- I would -- I think that the
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1 County's position on that would be that it would
2 be a State park, and the State would be
3 responsible, or the Federal government.
4 They're not a wealthy enough county to foot
5 that kind of a bill, even if they wanted to.
6 So --
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Further question?
8 DR. GRAY: Thank you very much.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
10 MR. WILLSON: Good morning. Governor and
11 Cabinet, my name is George Willson, representing
12 the Nature Conservancy.
13 I brought up to the podium the book that is
14 the research product of looking at the formerly
15 used defense site, both the west side of the
16 river and the east side of the river.
17 In the entire document, there is nothing
18 for this side of the river, the east side, or
19 formerly used defense area 5, that shows any
20 live ordnance, other than the marker bombs.
21 Both the fragments on the ground, the
22 records from the -- from the Department of
23 Defense, and everything the Corps could find
24 going back to every Department of Defense file,
25 all the exhaustive research that they did, shows
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1 that only marker bomb ordnance was -- which was
2 a bomb that was filled with sand or concrete.
3 And it had a small charge that set off a smoke
4 bomb, and there was a -- somebody in a tower
5 nearby that judged how well the B-17 trainers --
6 bombers were doing.
7 That is the only thing that is listed from
8 any of the fragments, any of the pieces found,
9 or any of the ordnance dropped. So we're not
10 talking about real ordnance.
11 And if I -- I wanted to also mention that
12 the fact that the State operates a number of
13 wildlife management areas on properties where
14 real ordnance has been dropped or is dropping.
15 They have wildlife management areas where people
16 drive across the river, where people have
17 dropped -- for 50 years, the Air Force has
18 dropped real ordnance and other rounds on
19 Avon Park Bombing Range.
20 We have a Trustees property, Camp Landing,
21 which has had real live ordnance; we have the
22 Holy Land down in the Everglades, which had live
23 ordnance, real bombs dropped, which is a
24 wildlife management where people drive heavy
25 equipment, half-tracks, airboats, and other
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1 things over it.
2 And a number of places are like that, where
3 people driving off-road seem to get along with
4 areas that have been used, or formerly used
5 bombing areas.
6 And if we have it -- if we have a preserve
7 like this where the target areas are known, and
8 the target areas in the preserve are really
9 off-road areas, they're away from the main
10 roads. And if you were to set those aside by
11 posting, fencing, or whatever, you're basically
12 going to have a preserve within a preserve.
13 And on the price issue, we bought the
14 property at some three or four million dollars
15 below appraised value. If you were to multiply
16 $573 an acre for the native range, or the
17 prairie that we acquired, times the 3700, that's
18 about 2.1 million.
19 That still leaves us several
20 million dollars below the -- the value. So
21 I think you could -- even if we got no use out
22 of that land, other than nature having a
23 set-aside area, a preserve within a preserve,
24 I think we're still okay on value.
25 And if you look at the area south of the
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1 property, south of the Maxcy property, where
2 there are a number -- there was many targets
3 south of the property, those areas have been
4 disked, burned, chopped, plowed, roads, ditches,
5 you name it, houses have been built for
6 50 years.
7 And when the Department of Defense went out
8 and looked at all the records of
9 Okeechobee County, they found no evidence of
10 anyone finding any ordnance or anything.
11 The only evidence of anything being found
12 was in the search in Highlands County records
13 that outside the main gate of the base, on
14 Arbuckle Creek, somebody dropped fuses in a
15 creek --
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: George, would you say you
17 got a hell of a lot stronger risk of being hit
18 by a rattler there than you do by --
19 MR. WILLSON: Yes, sir.
20 -- of the South Florida Board said you had
21 a greater risk of being hit by lightning on a
22 place without trees, or being bit by a
23 rattlesnake.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Getting snake bit.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah.
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1 MR. WILLSON: Yes, sir.
2 It is -- it don't want to overblow the risk
3 or underestimate the risk, but it is not an
4 issue that the people in Okeechobee feel is a
5 risk, or there is no record of there being a
6 risk from these marker bombs being dropped.
7 There's 50 years of land use that -- on
8 these areas to show that there hasn't been
9 any -- any problem yet.
10 And I want to just mention that on the
11 record, and mention the fact that we do have --
12 you're going to have an area where people are
13 not going to be encouraged to drive off the
14 roads. You don't want to -- really want people
15 driving on the prairie. They may hike or take
16 horseback trips, things like that.
17 But I don't -- from knowing the property
18 and driving over it, I would have no fear of
19 driving over any of this property right now.
20 And you -- when you -- it's been burned every --
21 every year -- or every three -- on a three-year
22 cycle, every year for 50 years by the cowboys
23 that have managed the property.
24 That goes all the way down to expose the
25 dirt. You have vegetation that's less than a
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1 foot high. Anything that's been found on the
2 ground, the cowboys picked up the pieces of
3 metal fragments and made little piles of them so
4 that they would -- the choppers wouldn't hit
5 them when they chopped some of the saw
6 palmetto. So they -- they have had no evidence
7 of finding anything after 50 years. So I
8 hopefully won't find anything after we buy it.
9 And the issue of spending eleven or
10 twelve million dollars to clear it. As I
11 understand the clearing, it would be potentially
12 plowing up the prairie. We bought it to protect
13 the prairie. And if you were to clear a foot
14 deep or 2 feet deep, it would basically undue
15 the intent of why we were buying the property.
16 So as the Governor has said, it may not be
17 worth the money to spend to plow up an area, if
18 that's how you clear it.
19 Thank you very much.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, George.
21 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. That concludes the
22 speakers.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MS. WETHERELL: All right. Thank you.
5 Item 6, high density aquaculture lease area
6 and 70 aquaculture leases.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MS. WETHERELL: Item 7, an option agreement
12 for Saddle Creek Greenway project.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 8, we have
18 some speakers for both of the -- the bank
19 applications.
20 The staff though is recommending exclusion
21 of both the Lake Okeechobee and the Overstreets
22 from the moratorium.
23 But we have representing Lake Overstreet,
24 Mr. Cauthen, who is the applicant; and for
25 Overstreet, we have Bill Egan and Bill Malone.
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1 Did I say Overstreet on the first one?
2 Sorry.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah. Okeechobee.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Excuse me.
5 Lake Okeechobee, Mr. Cauthen.
6 And with your permission, I'll call --
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: What -- the staff
8 recommendation is to exclude --
9 MS. WETHERELL: To exclude, yes, sir, both
10 of those from the moratorium.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Let's hear
12 from them.
13 MS. WETHERELL: Mr. Cauthen is saying
14 unless you have questions --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Pardon?
16 MS. WETHERELL: Mr. Cauthen will answer any
17 questions if you have them.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
19 MS. WETHERELL: All right.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I move the staff
21 recommendation.
22 MS. WETHERELL: All right. Could we hear
23 though from Bill Egan for Overstreet?
24 MR. EGAN: Thank you, Ms. Wetherell,
25 Secretary.
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1 Governor and Trustees, I'm
2 William L. Egan, I represent the Overstreet
3 family. I've been before you before in July
4 when you conceptually approved the agreement
5 between the Overstreets and the
6 Water Management District whereby the District
7 was going to acquire property with the
8 reservation for a mitigation bank to the
9 owners. And that's what we've been working on.
10 As I -- we got the word that this was a
11 status report to the Cabinet on the progress
12 there. And I want to assure you that we have
13 been working diligently to go forward with the
14 mitigation bank on that property.
15 The February -- or July 23 of last year is
16 when you approved the agreement. We closed it
17 in August 30th to meet the timetable required by
18 the District for the acquisition of land for the
19 Kissimmee headwaters project.
20 By September 5th, we were in serious
21 negotiations with various bankers to work with
22 us in going forward with the mitigation bank
23 application. You had placed some conditions on
24 us in that July meeting, one of which was that
25 you wanted us to come back for an approval of
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1 the banker with which we were going to be
2 working. So we were looking for reputable
3 individuals in that respect.
4 We got a short list going. By middle
5 September, it became apparent that we had been
6 working with the Water Management District in
7 making this agreement that we made who -- and
8 the District is in partners with the
9 Corps of Engineers in doing the work. But the
10 Corps of Engineers was out of tune to some
11 degree with our agreement.
12 So immediately an effort began in mid
13 September of 1996 to bring the State and Federal
14 interests into one focus so we could go forward.
15 The culmination of that was with a meeting
16 with the Corps of Engineers in December of 1996
17 to determine the necessary predicates. We had
18 to have certain materials from the
19 Corps of Engineers concerning their work, to
20 work with in designing our application.
21 Those materials were promised to us in
22 December of last year. We're assured that we're
23 going to get them this week. And so there has
24 been some time periods there that have not been
25 the result of any lack of diligence on the part
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1 of the owners in moving forward on this.
2 And so this moratorium would take away our
3 window of opportunity to do this. And I think
4 the State would lose a significant benefit if
5 that happened. So I do urge your approval of
6 the staff recommendations today.
7 I'll answer any questions that I can that
8 you might have.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question?
10 Thank you, sir.
11 MR. EGAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
12 MS. WETHERELL: Thank you.
13 Okay. That's all the speakers.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- Ginger,
17 what's the status of the Overstreet property?
18 You were going to let us know, at the
19 request -- at the request of Commissioner Brogan
20 as to where both of these particular properties
21 were in the process insofar as whether or not
22 application for a permit or a lease has been
23 filed with you, where it's at.
24 And could you give us that on both -- on
25 both properties?
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1 MS. WETHERELL: If you don't mind, I'm
2 going to let Bill Malone from the District,
3 since he's dealing with the issue.
4 MR. MALONE: Again, I'm Bill Malone with
5 the Water Management District.
6 The Overstreet permit applications have not
7 been filed. The -- the gentleman representing
8 the Overstreets have been in discussions with
9 the Corps of Engineers. They will need a permit
10 from the Corps, and from the Department.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Have they
12 filed a permit -- an application for permit with
13 the Corps?
14 MR. MALONE: No, sir, they have not, to the
15 best of my knowledge.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: How many
17 credits will they be getting, will the
18 Overstreets be getting?
19 MR. MALONE: That has not been determined.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I understand
21 there's some state sovereignty lands in this
22 issue, approximately 328 out of 600. Would they
23 be receiving any type of credits for land the
24 State already owns?
25 MR. MALONE: General, I can't answer that
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1 question. Somebody from the Department --
2 MS. WETHERELL: Kirby, can answer that --
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
4 you know, really I don't see how staff could
5 recommend for us to exempt out this particular
6 property if it can't answer a question.
7 MS. WETHERELL: Well, Governor, the staff
8 is telling me that the reason for their
9 recommendation -- it's really two-fold: That
10 the Water -- the Water Management District will
11 have to pay 2.1 -- 2.2 million dollars for the
12 acquisition of this land should it not proceed
13 as a mitigation bank.
14 And, furthermore, part of this particular
15 situation would involve putting an easement over
16 400 acres.
17 So the Water Management District and the
18 Department both see value, public benefit, for
19 this being a bank.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Let me ask
21 you a question, if I can.
22 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, sir.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That is,
24 what is the value of a credit today?
25 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: In
2 mitigation bank, what is the value of a credit?
3 Can you tell me that?
4 MS. WETHERELL: Well, I can tell you an
5 average. But I can't --
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What is the
7 average?
8 MS. WETHERELL: Well, normally about -- it
9 costs about 35,000.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
11 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So you're
13 going to give you don't know how many acres or
14 how many credits, an average of $35,000. You
15 have no idea until your report comes back as to
16 what the geography's going to be for these
17 particular credits. It could be downtown
18 Orlando.
19 MS. WETHERELL: Well --
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- which
21 might bring a value of much more than 35,000 --
22 but even 35,000, and we have no idea how many
23 acres you were talking about, that might be in
24 the billions of dollars, not in the millions.
25 And I -- and until you can answer these
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1 questions, I mean, I have --
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, just to --
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I have
4 doubt.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- just to kind of get
6 back to where we are though, are we not,
7 General, talking about whether this land will be
8 in the moratorium or not.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Exactly.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: I don't think -- I don't
11 think I'm here today to say we're ready to
12 approve the application, the credits.
13 MS. WETHERELL: That's right.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: All of that will be what
15 will be coming before us.
16 But we, as the Governor and the Cabinet,
17 did give conceptual approval of this. Now, the
18 question is now, I think the very thing you're
19 asking is what the Department finally got
20 worried about, and some of us have been worried
21 about: Are we going too fast on this thing --
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's
23 right.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- should we take a look
25 at it. And we said, yes, we are. Now the
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1 question is: Should you exempt one or two --
2 these two parcels, because we had given some
3 kind of conceptual approval but -- just from the
4 moratorium. I don't think we're excepting them
5 from anything else. I'm not.
6 MS. WETHERELL: No. No. And all those
7 questions will be addressed when they make their
8 application.
9 And if it's -- if they're not appropriate,
10 then we would not be coming back to recommend.
11 At this point, we just have a conceptual
12 approval.
13 And, you know, the fact that you've got the
14 Kissimmee Restoration Project underway, and this
15 is a piece of that effort. So, you know,
16 it's -- they're all intertwined.
17 But your questions are legitimate
18 questions, General, and they will be brought
19 back before you. It's just until they have a
20 application, we can't address them.
21 We're simply recommending today that they
22 not be included in the moratorium so that these
23 particular two can proceed through the
24 application process.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I guess
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1 I'm -- my real question is, Governor -- I don't
2 care if they proceed or not.
3 But the thing is: Are we going to be
4 voting on these before we receive our report on
5 mitigation banking? I mean, I think it'd be
6 pretty silly to do final approval on this --
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: No, I don't -- I agree
8 with you.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Oh, okay.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: I am not -- my vote is
11 not to make any kind of final approval at all.
12 It is simply to determine whether we're going to
13 allow these two to not be under a moratorium,
14 which is going to be at least a year, I believe.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor, with that in
16 mind, I think most of you have this -- this
17 language in front of you.
18 But I'd move that we not impose the
19 mitigation banking moratorium on either the
20 Lake Okeechobee or Overstreet proposed
21 mitigation banking project.
22 However, because of the time sensitive
23 nature of the Lake Okeechobee project, I'd
24 suggest that we require the applicant to have a
25 complete application in with the Army
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1 Corps of Engineers by the May 13th Cabinet
2 meeting.
3 And in this two-month period, I'd further
4 move that the staff of DEP, and other interested
5 parties, be directed to assist the applicant in
6 the search for an acceptable alternative site.
7 Regardless of the outcome, I would like for
8 this application to come back to the Trustees
9 for some sort of final action at that May 13th
10 Cabinet meeting.
11 And finally, we'd like to impose a
12 six-month deadline on the Overstreet --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Just a question on that.
14 Not necessarily that we would find -- that
15 we would approve it at the May 13th, is it?
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: No.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: You just want it to come
18 back so that we can review it --
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: We can possibly approve
20 it, we can possibly send it back to the drawing
21 boards to come up with a -- an answer that
22 works.
23 And then on the six-month deadline on the
24 Overstreet project, that the parties would be
25 required to have a complete application in to
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1 DEP by the September 9th Cabinet meeting.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I would withdraw my
3 motion, and second that motion.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have a
5 question, Governor.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Uh-hum.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I guess what
8 I'm getting at is that I -- I don't see any
9 reason why I can vote for either one of those
10 two projects for mitigation banking until we
11 receive the mitigation report after the study.
12 I mean, I -- it just doesn't make any sense
13 to me. I don't mind even going forward. But
14 until that report comes back and we have a
15 chance to look at the report, if mitigation
16 banking is a bad thing, we might just have made
17 a very, very serious mistake.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I would agree with
19 you. I would not -- that's why I was asking the
20 question about the May 13th, whatever it is.
21 I don't want to vote on any final
22 mitigation thing until we see exactly what the
23 credits were, what we're getting, what we're
24 giving, all of those questions I think need to
25 be answered.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Also have a
2 report of why we have the moratorium in the
3 first place. To study the issue, I would
4 assume.
5 So until that study is over, I don't see
6 how we can vote for any mitigation credits. I
7 mean, I really don't see how we can.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, Governor, I would
9 think that -- we are at March 11th. May 13th is
10 two months away. It would seem to me that we
11 could have the report prior to the May 13th
12 meeting.
13 But it certainly seems to me that the
14 Lake Okeechobee project is time sensitive enough
15 that we should be able to make a decision in a
16 two-month period of time.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, my
18 question last week also is how long will it take
19 for them to do this report. And I think by not
20 approving anything until the report comes to us,
21 I think the report's going to take less time
22 than it would.
23 It's like a term paper. A term paper takes
24 24 hours. You can do it -- you always do it one
25 day before it's due. I mean --
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: But that's my point.
2 If, in fact, we have a time deadline of
3 May 13th, I believe that we will see a report
4 prior to May 13th.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
7 TREASURER NELSON: -- I want to --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, are we
9 putting a deadline on the report then, is that
10 what we're really doing here?
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: It's up to the
12 staff I guess, when they can -- when they can
13 bring one back that's complete and thorough --
14 MS. WETHERELL: I think it would be the
15 world's record to have a rule in place in two
16 months. I just don't think --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: I don't think there's any
18 way in the world you're going to make a final
19 approval in two months, you know.
20 I think we're talking about maybe an
21 interim of some kind of maybe determining
22 whether the Okeechobee thing can go forward,
23 whether it should be -- you know, I think one of
24 the things we're trying to do, I understand, is
25 we're trying to push the Okeechobee project
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1 people to get their papers in before the Corps
2 so the Corps can make a determination.
3 MS. WETHERELL: Yeah. I think we haven't
4 probably done a real good job of trying to
5 distinguish why these two are back before you.
6 We made a recommendation for the
7 moratorium. That came from the Department
8 because we really think that -- that you need to
9 be involved, and we need to seriously look at
10 this whole mitigation banking issue. We -- we
11 generated that concept because we think it needs
12 to be reviewed.
13 But these are two banks that -- potential
14 banks that you have conceptually approved.
15 Remember that the Lake Okeechobee bank has been
16 approved. It has a permit that the
17 Water Management District has issued.
18 Now, it will be back before you for the
19 lease. But they have their bank permit, the
20 Water Management District has issued that.
21 It is time sensitive in that you have the
22 removal of melaleuca that has been underway for
23 a long period of time, and really almost
24 complete by the Water Management District. The
25 part that is remaining is what the banker wishes
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1 to use for his bank.
2 It is time sensitive in that the -- the
3 water level is very low in Lake Okeechobee right
4 now, and we don't want seed dispersal to take
5 place and undo all the work and money that has
6 been spent there.
7 So we need to get resolution on that
8 issue. And so we -- we are looking for,
9 you know, a decision by the Corps within a short
10 period of time, a month, two months.
11 Meanwhile, we had told the applicant that
12 we would very much like to work with him to find
13 an alternative site. And he has agreed to work
14 with us and the District to find an alternative
15 site. In fact, there's a meeting scheduled with
16 him today at 1:00 o'clock to look for an
17 alternative site.
18 And if we can do that, it's the best of
19 both worlds, because we would like to get on
20 with the completion of the removal of melaleuca
21 from the lake now.
22 So if we can find that -- meanwhile, he's
23 just waiting for his final permit from the
24 Corps of Engineers.
25 So if we can accomplish that, you know,
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1 I think it will be progress.
2 The second issue, Overstreet. Overstreet
3 is tied to the whole restoration of the
4 Kissimmee. And that work needs to be done by a
5 time certain for the Water Management District
6 purposes.
7 And, therefore, that's why we have picked
8 it out of all of the potential banks and said,
9 let's don't include that in the moratorium
10 because of the bigger picture, the greater good
11 that can be gained here.
12 So that's why we have pulled these two out
13 and recommended it, that they not be included in
14 the moratorium.
15 Does that help?
16 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask one additional
17 question?
18 To what extent have we used public lands
19 for mitigation banking in the past?
20 MS. WETHERELL: Staff can tell you exactly
21 how much we have done.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Public lands.
23 MS. WETHERELL: Probably Debbie or Kirby.
24 MR. GREEN: The two major tracts that we've
25 approved at this point are mitigation at
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1 Tosohatchee. It's been on a project-by-project
2 basis with the -- with DOT, for project impacts
3 that they would have. They've come into the
4 park and restored some areas we have there.
5 The second one is Little Pine Island where
6 we've actually approved the mitigation bank that
7 is ongoing now.
8 So those are the two major sites that we
9 have that we've used --
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Both of those are by
11 public agencies though; are they not?
12 MR. GREEN: No, sir. The --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Pine Island --
14 MR. GREEN: Pine Island is a private --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: It is a private.
16 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's the only private
18 one you've approved.
19 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir.
20 TREASURER NELSON: And when was that
21 approved?
22 MR. GREEN: About a year-and-a-half ago.
23 TREASURER NELSON: The reason I ask the
24 question, it seems to me that there's a public
25 policy that we need to decide here, whether or
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1 not if in light of the Pine Island having been
2 won, is this a -- in the interest of the public
3 that we allow mitigation banking on public
4 lands.
5 And as part of the discussion of this issue
6 before us, I would like to have that opportunity
7 to have that issue thoroughly discussed.
8 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, sir.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think that's exactly
10 why they're asking for the one-year moratorium.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: So that we can thoroughly
13 discuss that issue. And I think what it --
14 you know, if you look back, I think we were
15 getting the cart before the horse a little bit.
16 We gave conceptual approval to two of these. We
17 were starting on some others, a bunch of
18 applications being fined.
19 Now, the Department said, time out, we
20 think that we ought to look at this. And
21 I think everything you say, and we're all
22 saying, we all now realize that we ought to look
23 at it.
24 The question is now: What do you do with
25 these two that you've given this conceptual
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1 approval of; one, Overstreet, which seems to
2 have sort of a double game in that it's part of
3 the Kissimmee restoration.
4 And the other is one that we had a pretty
5 lengthy discussion on on melaleuca. And at the
6 time, I was wanting to get somebody else out
7 there working on melaleuca, you know. I pushed,
8 you know, us giving conceptual approval of that
9 at the time.
10 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Now, I think what we're
12 saying is: Should we further look at these two
13 so we don't just put them under the moratorium.
14 We're not approving -- I'm not ready to approve
15 either one of them. I didn't think we are. We
16 don't know what their credits are, or anything
17 else.
18 But should we just exempt them, and then
19 have the moratorium on everything else.
20 Okay. We've pretty thoroughly discussed
21 this. We ought to be able to --
22 And we have a --
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion and --
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- a motion and a second.
25 Is there further discussion?
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1 So many as favor the motion, signify by
2 saying aye.
3 THE CABINET: Aye.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: The ayes have it.
7 Motion's adopted.
8 MS. WETHERELL: Thank you.
9 Substitute -- excuse me.
10 Substitute Item 9. On this particular
11 item, Governor, we will have to have a motion to
12 reconsider it.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: A motion to reconsider.
14 MS. WETHERELL: -- is necessary.
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So move.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. I think that
17 motion to reconsider would have to be by
18 somebody on the -- the other side.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: What is this issue?
20 TREASURER NELSON: May I be recognized?
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: This is the one you
22 missed.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Pardon?
24 TREASURER NELSON: May I be recognized?
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: The two
2 negative votes were the Commissioner and myself,
3 Governor.
4 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I move to
5 reconsider the matter by which Item 9 received
6 favorable consideration at the last Cabinet
7 meeting.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'll second
9 that.
10 TREASURER NELSON: I was on the prevailing
11 side.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
13 moved and seconded.
14 So many as favor a reconsideration, say
15 aye.
16 THE CABINET: Aye.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's re--
18 No.
19 It's reconsidered.
20 Now it's before us.
21 MS. WETHERELL: All right. Thank you,
22 Governor.
23 This is the issue for a modification of
24 expansion and extension of a submerged land
25 lease. This is Whitney's Sailcenter. And so it
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1 is back before you today.
2 Mrs. Whitney is here for any questions that
3 you may have.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
5 the reason why I voted no last week was not this
6 particular project, it was just a policy that it
7 appears over the past few years, staff and a
8 delegation of over-- of their authority.
9 They have -- it seems the 25-year lease has
10 gotten to be the lease of choice. It appears
11 that prior to 1988, we had 38 leases of 25 years
12 or more; and since 1988, we have 126, with most
13 of our leases being literally in the hundred --
14 133 of them right now presently with a 25-year
15 lease, and three of them with 23-year leases.
16 I think before we tie up the -- the State's
17 land for that amount of time, I really believe
18 it should be coming before the Board, and not
19 just be -- be really done by staff. I'm very
20 concerned about it.
21 This case may very well be a fact pattern
22 where we would give a 25, or maybe a 15 or a 10,
23 whatever. But I do believe giving 25 years,
24 tying land up for one entire generation in the
25 fast growing parts of this state, is just a
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1 mistake, without having a hearing on it.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there further
3 discussion?
4 Is there a motion?
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move that we
6 consider the approval.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been --
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- moved and seconded.
10 So many as favor, signify by saying aye.
11 THE CABINET: Aye.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
13 The ayes have it, and it's approved.
14 MS. WETHERELL: Thank you.
15 Okay. Item 10, we're recommending deferral
16 until April 15th.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move deferral.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it is deferred.
21 MS. WETHERELL: Thank you.
22 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
23 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
24 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
25 12:19 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 102 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 21ST day of MARCH, 1997.
17
18
19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
100 Salem Court
20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
(904) 878-2221
21
22
23
24
25
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