The Governor and Cabinet - Florida Department of State

Cabinet Affairs

2 T H E C A B I N E T

3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A

Representing:

DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE

6 FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT INFORMATION BOARD

DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE

7 DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

8 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION

BOARD OF TRUSTEES, INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND

10 The above agencies came to be heard before

THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles

11 presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,

The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,

12 February 24, 1998, commencing at approximately

9:44 a.m.

16 Reported by:

17 LAURIE L. GILBERT

Registered Professional Reporter

18 Certified Court Reporter

Certified Realtime Reporter

19 Notary Public in and for

the State of Florida at Large

23 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

100 SALEM COURT

24 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301

850/878-2221

1 APPEARANCES:

2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:

3 LAWTON CHILES

Governor

BOB CRAWFORD

5 Commissioner of Agriculture

6 BOB MILLIGAN

Comptroller

SANDRA B. MORTHAM

8 Secretary of State

9 BOB BUTTERWORTH

Attorney General

BILL NELSON

11 Treasurer

12 FRANK T. BROGAN

Commissioner of Education

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

February 24, 1998

1 I N D E X

2 ITEM ACTION PAGE

3 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:

(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,

4 Director)

5 1 Approved 6

2 Approved 7

6 3 Approved 8

7 FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT INFORMATION BOARD:

(Presented by Martin L. Young,

8 Financial Administrator)

9 1 Approved 9

2 Approved 9

10 3 Approved 9

11 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:

(Presented by L.H. Fuchs,

12 Executive Director)

13 1 Approved 11

2 Approved 11

14 3-16 Approved 12

17 Approved 12

DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES:

16 (Presented by Fred O. Dickinson, III,

Executive Director)

1 Approved 13

18 2 Approved 13

3 Approved 13

19 4 Approved 14

5 Approved 15

20 6 Approved 15

7 Deferred 17

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

February 24, 1998

1 I N D E X

(Continued)

ITEM ACTION PAGE

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:

4 (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,

Deputy Commissioner)

1 Deferred 18

6 2 Approved 18

3 Discussion 18

FLORIDA LAND AND WATER

8 ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION:

(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,

9 Secretary)

10 1 Approved 37

2 Approved 37

11 3 Approved 38

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

February 24, 1998

1 I N D E X

(Continued)

ITEM ACTION PAGE

BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE

4 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT

TRUST FUND:

5 (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell,

Secretary)

1 Approved 39

7 2 Approved 39

Substitute 3 Approved 39

8 4 Approved 40

5 Approved 40

9 6 Approved 40

7 Approved 40

10 8 Approved 41

9 Approved 41

11 Substitute 10 Approved 41

11 Approved 42

12 12 Approved 42

Substitute 13 Deferred 43

13 14 Deferred 43

14 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 44

15 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE

February 24, 1998

1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:17 a.m.)

3 (Attorney General Butterworth not present

4 in the room.)

5 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)

6 GOVERNOR CHILES: And now we will begin

7 with our agenda, Division of Bond Finance.

8 MR. WATKINS: Good morning.

9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.

10 MR. WATKINS: Item number 1 is approval of

11 the minutes of the February 10th meeting.

12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes,

13 Governor.

14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

16 Without objection, the minutes are adopted.

17 MR. WATKINS: Item number 2 is a resolution

18 recommen-- selection of underwriters for bonds

19 being issued on behalf of the Orange-Orlando

20 County Expressway Authority. The recommendation

21 is based upon evaluations of responses to RFPs

22 that we distributed.

23 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)

24 MR. WATKINS: The underwriting syndicates

25 to consist of five national underwriting firms,

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE

February 24, 1998

1 one regional underwriting firm, and one minority

2 woman business enterprise firm.

3 The firms being recommended are the firms

4 that ranked the highest in each of those

5 respective categories, and include Paine Webber

6 as senior managing underwriting, Salomon Smith

7 Barney, Lehman Brothers, Bear Starns, and

8 Morgan Stanley, William R. Hough, and Artemis

9 Capital Corporation.

10 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)

11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move the item,

12 Governor, and an excellent process was used in

13 this, and I congratulate you, Ben.

14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --

16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second, sir.

17 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.

18 Without objection, it's approved.

19 MR. WATKINS: Item number 3 is a report of

20 award on a competitive sale of two hundred

21 million and twenty thousand of P2000 revenue

22 refunding bonds. The bonds were sold at

23 competitive sales at a bid TIC of 4.46 percent,

24 resulting in gross savings of approximately

25 20 million dollars.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE

February 24, 1998

1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Ben, I don't want to

2 give you a big head. I'll move the item and

3 tell you -- hate to do it right on the heels of

4 General Milligan's compliment, but, no kidding,

5 that 4.4 is an outstanding rate. Well done.

6 MR. WATKINS: Thank you.

7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Twenty million dollars is

8 great, too, Ben.

9 Is there a second?

10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Second.

12 Without objection.

13 Thank you very much.

14 MR. WATKINS: Thank you, gentlemen.

15 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was

16 concluded.)

17 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT INFORMATION BOARD

February 24, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Financial Management

2 Information Board.

3 MR. YOUNG: Good morning. Martin Young.

4 We've got three items. The first item is

5 the minutes.

6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move the minutes.

7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And I second it.

8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

9 Without objection, they're approved.

10 MR. YOUNG: Item 2, approval of strategic

11 plan.

12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move the plan.

13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And I second.

14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

15 Without objection, it's approved.

16 MR. YOUNG: Item 3 is approval of the

17 Program Charter.

18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I move the

19 Program Charter.

20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And second it.

21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

22 Without objection, that is approved.

23 MR. YOUNG: Okay. Thank you, Governor.

24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT INFORMATION BOARD

February 24, 1998

1 (The Financial Management Information Board

2 Agenda was concluded.)

3 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE

February 24, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of Revenue.

2 MR. FUCHS: Good morning.

3 Item 1 is a request for approval of the

4 minutes of the February 10th meeting.

5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes.

6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

8 Without objection, they're approved.

9 MR. FUCHS: Item 2 is a request for

10 permission to notice proposed amendments to

11 Rule Chapter 12B-4 regarding documentary stamp

12 tax.

13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move --

14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I move --

15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- approval for

16 rulemaking.

17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- the item.

18 Second.

19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

20 Without objection, that's approved.

21 MR. FUCHS: Items 3 through 16 are consent

22 approvals for the repeal of rules.

23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I've

24 reviewed all these, as I know you have, and I'd

25 like to move Items 3 through 16.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE

February 24, 1998

1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

3 Without objection, Items 3 through 16 are

4 approved.

5 MR. FUCHS: Item 17 is a request for

6 approval and authority to file with the

7 Secretary of State proposed rulemaking for

8 Rule Section 12B-6.0051. It's a public service

9 reporting form.

10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

13 Without objection, that's approved.

14 MR. FUCHS: Thank you.

15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.

16 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was

17 concluded.)

18 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES

February 24, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Highway Safety.

2 MR. DICKINSON: Item 1 is approval of the

3 minutes from the past two Cabinet meetings that

4 we've attended.

5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move the minutes

6 of the November 4th and December 4th meetings.

7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

9 Without objection, that's approved.

10 MR. DICKINSON: Item 2 is submission of a

11 quarterly report for the period ending

12 December 1997.

13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

16 Without objection, that's approved.

17 MR. DICKINSON: Item 3, Governor, is to

18 recommend appointment of Dr. Jack MacDonald, a

19 local internist, to our Highway Safety Medical

20 Advisory Board.

21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move the

22 appointment.

23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.

24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

25 Without objection, that's approved.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES

February 24, 1998

1 MR. DICKINSON: Item 4 is a request to

2 acquire some services from Advanced Systems

3 Design to continue development of our DUI

4 Information System. It's a monitoring system

5 for our DUI -- 29 DUI schools throughout the

6 state.

7 This is the third year in a three-year

8 project. The first two years were picked up in

9 a grant through NHTSA. And then this final

10 year, we're picking it up through the Trust Fund

11 supported by the DUI schools.

12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.

14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

15 Without objection, it's approved.

16 MR. DICKINSON: Item 5 is, I think, the

17 last big effort on our part to -- to get

18 compatible with year 2000. And it's a contract

19 with C-A-C-I, better known as CACI, for some

20 software services. And they -- they were the

21 lowest bid and the highest score in our

22 evaluation process.

23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move appro--

25 Second.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES

February 24, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

2 Without objection, that's approved.

3 MR. DICKINSON: Item 6 is the new Tampa Bay

4 Buccaneers tag that we submit for your

5 approval. Pewter Power tag I guess it's more

6 commonly referred to in the Tampa Bay area.

7 They have had a tag previously. This is a

8 reworked tag over the last, I believe, several

9 years. And it is --

10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

13 Without objection, it's approved.

14 GOVERNOR CHILES: We now have 41 tags for

15 your buying pleasure at your local tag agency.

16 Item 7 is the consideration to request and

17 establish a management review team deferred from

18 the last Cabinet meeting.

19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, I guess

20 I've got the dot on this one.

21 If you all recall on 4 December, '97, the

22 Governor and Cabinet passed a motion that a

23 preliminary investigation be conducted into the

24 allegations that were contained in

25 Colonel Grimming's resignation letter, his

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES

February 24, 1998

1 resignation from the Florida Highway Patrol.

2 And that this investigation would be an adjunct

3 to the ongoing investigation we had at that time

4 into a matter pertaining to contracts.

5 I brought with me today for distribution to

6 you, Governor, and the rest of the Cabinet, a

7 copy of the completed report by my investigation

8 staff. It does not include the -- all of the

9 background material that goes along with --

10 that's a three-volume item, and that has been

11 provided to your staff.

12 At this time, I would recommend that we

13 defer any discussion of the report or

14 consideration of Commissioner Brogan's request

15 to establish a management review team, to our

16 10 March Cabinet meeting.

17 I believe this would provide time for you,

18 Governor, and each Cabinet member to read the

19 report in its entirety, and for any interested

20 parties to have an opportunity to respond to the

21 report.

22 If the public or the media wishes to

23 request a copy prior to final action by the

24 Governor and Cabinet, a copy of the report is

25 available for inspection at the Office of

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES

February 24, 1998

1 Financial Investigations in the

2 Fletcher Building, or a copy may be requested

3 through the Division Director,

4 Mr. Steve Ritacco. Mr. Ritacco's staff will

5 also be available if staff of the Governor or

6 Cabinet members have specific questions on the

7 report.

8 I move deferral of Item 7 to our March 10

9 Cabinet meeting.

10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll --

11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second --

12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- second that,

13 Governor.

14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

15 And without objection, that's approved.

16 (The Department of Highway Safety and Motor

17 Vehicles Agenda was concluded.)

18 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of Education.

2 DR. BEDFORD: Governor Chiles,

3 Commissioner Brogan, members of the State Board

4 of Education, good morning.

5 Item 1, Florida Commission on Education

6 Reform and Accountability report we ask to

7 defer --

8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move --

9 DR. BEDFORD: -- until --

10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- deferral.

11 DR. BEDFORD: -- March 10th.

12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move that,

13 Governor.

14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

16 Without objection, it's deferred.

17 DR. BEDFORD: Item 2, contract amendment

18 for the Florida Guaranteed Student Loan Program.

19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the item.

20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

22 Without objection, that's approved.

23 DR. BEDFORD: Item 3, Bright Future Policy

24 discussion.

25 I believe Treasurer Nelson at our last

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 meeting requested that the Department of

2 Education be prepared to discuss the

3 Bright Futures. We've gathered some information

4 for Commissioner Brogan.

5 I think that at this time, we kind of throw

6 it open to the Cabinet for discussion.

7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll be glad to try

8 to, best of my ability, answer any questions

9 that the members of the State Board have. But,

10 I guess, to preamble those questions, let

11 you know that even though it appears as though

12 some have tried, convicted, and hung the

13 Bright Futures Scholarship program, I'm still

14 trying to find out what numbers they're using

15 and how they're attempting to do that.

16 My concern from the very beginning of the

17 Bright Futures Scholarship program -- as I know

18 everyone's has been -- is making sure that

19 whatever criteria is laid out, whatever the

20 changes that may occur along the way with what I

21 always consider to be, and will, an evolutionary

22 process, be made on good, hard data-driven

23 information.

24 We are six months into the Bright Futures

25 Scholarship program. Already, we have

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 demonstrated that two myths that were created

2 are just that.

3 Myth one was that there wouldn't be enough

4 money in year one of Bright Futures to fund it.

5 And that has proven to be a myth. It didn't

6 take us as much money first year as we thought

7 it would to fund it.

8 The second myth, which people missed by a

9 country mile, is the fact that -- or the great

10 misguided belief that the preponderance of

11 students who would receive Bright Futures

12 Scholarship would be students who didn't require

13 student financial assistance.

14 And, again, not only did they miss that

15 one, they missed that one by a mile. The latest

16 figures -- and we only have now the State

17 University System figures, and this comes from

18 them -- indicates that approximately 49 percent

19 of the students who are in the State University

20 System receiving Bright Futures Scholarship

21 money, would also qualify -- or are also

22 eligible for some sort of needs based financial

23 assistance.

24 We're awaiting the community college and

25 advanced vocational and technical school

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 numbers, which we're attempting to compile now.

2 But I think if you stop and consider

3 university versus community college versus

4 advanced vocational technical schools, there's

5 really no reason for us to believe that those

6 numbers are going to do anything but go up,

7 based on the enrollments in those postsecondary

8 institutions. And I think that's very good

9 news.

10 Now, I will dovetail that by saying that

11 we've also recommended more money for good

12 old-fashioned needs based financial assistance

13 for the state of Florida, and we need to do

14 that. We've got to make sure that we have an

15 appropriate balance of needs based and merit

16 based financial students -- assistance in the

17 state.

18 But, again, I think those who are now

19 oh for two on the prediction side need to

20 understand that until the real numbers come

21 forward, not projected numbers, as we've seen

22 recently, but the real numbers come forward,

23 it's very difficult to ascertain what kind of

24 changes we should make, be it in the S-A-T

25 score, be it in the criteria based on G-P-A,

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 whether there should ever be discussed a means

2 test based on financial status of families,

3 whatever it happens to be.

4 And what we have discussed with the

5 Legislature is the fact that -- and said this

6 from the beginning -- we will be open to any

7 changes in the Bright Futures Scholarship

8 program, financial or otherwise, as long as

9 those changes are based on good, hard data that

10 we are collecting right now, and will continue

11 to collect on through the first year of the

12 program.

13 And once this year is complete, and over

14 the course of the summer, that ought to give us

15 at least a reasonable idea as to who is availing

16 themself of the program, what socioeconomic

17 strata they happen to be in, all the kinds of

18 indicators that we want and need to come back

19 for the next year, and look at making any

20 recommended changes in the program, or the way

21 it's funded.

22 I will end by saying that one of the great

23 reports that just came out, and I say "great" in

24 quotes, takes projections, and then builds upon

25 those projections and assumptions an enormous

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 black hole in funding and -- ten years out for

2 the Bright Futures Scholarship program.

3 But as I said to the creator of that

4 report, they are based on the fact that there

5 would be no changes in the Bright Futures

6 Scholarship program, in S-A-T, in G-P-A, in the

7 amount of money going into the program, as we've

8 discussed the possibility of -- of not just

9 capping, but capping with a rolling index to

10 keep pace with the growth that we're seeing in

11 tuition.

12 It's also based on the fact -- or at least

13 the perception, that there would be an

14 83 percent increase over the next years in the

15 cost of tuition and fees at the University

16 System. I find not the Bright Future

17 Scholarship program troubling, I find that

18 troubling, as we see families still struggling

19 to keep up with where we are today, much less

20 trying to reach out to some mythical national

21 average as tuition nirvana for the state of

22 Florida.

23 So what I said to the person who put that

24 together is, based on those numbers, and those

25 numerators and denominators, which are largely

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 assumption in nature, I still beg that we need

2 to wait until we have real numbers on which to

3 build any changes in the Bright Future

4 Scholarship program.

5 And, folks, I'll tell you this -- and I

6 know you're deeply concerned about this as

7 members of the State Board, and folks who

8 support Bright Futures, I think -- that once

9 those changes are deemed necessary based on

10 good, hard data, I'll need to charge for them.

11 Whether it is, again, a capping of the

12 amount with a rolling index, whether it's a

13 change in the S-A-T -- which, by the way, was an

14 accommodation during the legislative process.

15 We had recommended I think a little higher

16 S-A-T, but that was the one that after the great

17 debate raged, we settled on in terms of the

18 political number. Or any changes.

19 But again, what I continue to beg the

20 Legislature and the State to do -- and I think

21 the leadership of the House and Senate are

22 willing to do that -- is make sure all the

23 numbers are in before we recommend any changes.

24 By the way, this is one of the few

25 programs -- and I -- that's one of the reasons

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 that the ten-year projections intrigue me. It's

2 one of the first times in State Government since

3 I've been in Tallahassee that I've seen anybody

4 do a ten-year projection on anything ever

5 recommended to the Florida Legislature.

6 I think maybe that's a new practice we

7 should begin, and any time someone projects a

8 new program, we ought to immediately do a CPI

9 check, and roll it out for ten years. We may

10 find we wouldn't fund anything in the state of

11 Florida, for the fear that we may be pricing

12 ourself out of the market.

13 But, again, I want to thank you all for

14 your support of the program. I share the same

15 concerns as do you about the program. But we'll

16 recommend to you and take any input from you

17 over time as to what changes we ought to make in

18 the program based on good information.

19 And I'll be glad to try to answer any

20 questions that you have. But I will tip my hand

21 and tell you that with the limited information

22 we still have, that's going to be a little

23 difficult to do in specificity this morning.

24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Any questions?

25 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.

2 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --

3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.

4 TREASURER NELSON: -- I appreciate the

5 initiation of this discussion from a policy

6 standpoint as the State Board of Education. And

7 what you shared with us, Frank, I think is very

8 helpful.

9 I was curious. Some of the things that you

10 just said, which I did not know, one of the

11 genesises for this particular program was the

12 Georgia Hope Scholarship.

13 And it's my understanding that there is a

14 needs based test there in that they cannot

15 have -- come from families that have over

16 $100,000 of income.

17 How do you apply that to this program, and

18 what was the reason that initially when it was

19 set up that we didn't have that -- some kind of

20 needs based test?

21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That's -- that's a

22 good question, Commissioner. One of the things

23 we have tried to do is look to Georgia. They'll

24 be the first ones to admit, their program has

25 been evolutionary in nature, too, but we've

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 tried to learn from them.

2 And on the issue of means testing, Georgia

3 did originally put in a means test -- financial

4 means test that started at about, I believe,

5 $66,000. They eliminated that and raised that

6 to $100,000 per family. And then they

7 eliminated that.

8 So as it stands today, there is no means

9 test in Georgia, primarily because they found

10 the same thing that we're finding, which is the

11 majority of students who are accessing this

12 program in the state -- again, whether it's

13 university, community college, advanced

14 vocational and technical -- would also qualify

15 for traditional needs based financial

16 assistance.

17 And they simply decided that the number of

18 students who fell above someone's arbitrary red

19 line was not significant enough in order to

20 create a means test for it. So they've

21 eliminated that over time.

22 TREASURER NELSON: All right. And would

23 you share with us also the idea of the academic

24 standards for the scholarship, how that was

25 selected. And then when you overlay those

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 academic standards on the present entrance

2 requirements at the various universities, it's

3 my understanding that basically the university

4 standards are actually higher standards than the

5 scholarship standards, and -- and explain that

6 kind of -- of face-off to us.

7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: You mean in terms of

8 entrance standards?

9 TREASURER NELSON: Yes. And --

10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, the --

11 of course, each university's entrance standards

12 are a little bit different based on the fact

13 that some need to be more selective, or can be

14 more selective in use of things like S-A-T

15 scores.

16 I think, for example,

17 University of Florida -- don't quote me on this,

18 but I think I'm close -- the average S-A-T for

19 an incoming freshman last year was somewhere in

20 the neighborhood of 1240, 1270, something like

21 that. That might be different at --

22 for example, at the University of West Florida

23 or FIU.

24 So it's a little different where you go.

25 But basically, there was a long debate on

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 the criteria for award for Bright Futures. It

2 centered around the core curricular courses that

3 a student has to take in order to be considered

4 eligible for postsecondary education, as well as

5 creating a cut score on the S-A-T that was

6 used.

7 Again, we had originally recommended a

8 higher S-A-T score. But then the -- the debate

9 took over, and there were some who believed that

10 if we used too high a S-A-T score, we would be

11 eliminating some students who may not be able to

12 access Bright Futures, because that S-A-T kept

13 them out.

14 During this last -- excuse me -- during the

15 special session, we made an adjustment to the

16 program, which was well warranted, wasn't --

17 didn't even need numbers to bear it out, because

18 it was an accurate projection -- and that is the

19 fact that originally the program did not use a

20 weighted grade point average.

21 So you may have actually seen students who

22 would say, instead of taking physics, I'll just

23 take general science, because I don't want that

24 physics grade, if it's a B, to pull down my --

25 my G-P-A, and, therefore, might not be able to

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 access Bright Futures.

2 So we changed that to a weighted grade

3 point average during special session.

4 So, in other words, there were a set of

5 criteria that are laid side-by-side on each of

6 the different levels of Bright Future.

7 And I will tell you that if a student can't

8 get into the University of Florida, they

9 obviously can still qualify for a Bright Future

10 Scholarship, but they couldn't apply it to the

11 University of Florida.

12 So trying to lay the criteria for

13 Bright Futures against the criteria for entrance

14 at University of Florida is -- is a tad

15 misleading, because one doesn't necessarily have

16 anything to do with the other.

17 If it is recommended ultimately that in

18 order to achieve a Bright Futures Scholarship,

19 you have to have a higher G-P-A, or you have to

20 have a higher S-A-T cut score to get in -- not

21 only to get in the University of Florida, but

22 also access Bright Future, you will definitely

23 be eliminating a goodly number of students from

24 the possibility of acquiring the scholarship.

25 Maybe not the possibility of getting into the

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 University of Florida because they met their

2 criteria for entrance.

3 TREASURER NELSON: Final-- final question,

4 Governor, and I appreciate this policy

5 discussion.

6 We have read in a number of articles, and

7 in some editorials, that the concern is that a

8 scholarship program is created virtually giving

9 huge percentages of the students that are

10 already enrolled in college, unrelated to

11 financial need, these kind of scholarships.

12 What you shared with us today is, hold

13 tight until we get the figures coming in. But

14 the preliminary figures, if you had to sum it

15 up, would be what?

16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Preliminary

17 figures -- and, by the way, I've got to tell you

18 that I was surprised by how high the percentage

19 was from where we originally projected.

20 But the preliminary figures indicate that

21 not only do almost 50 percent -- and, again,

22 I've only got State University figures now. So

23 these are probably going to be low by the time

24 we do community college and advanced vocational

25 technical.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 The preliminary figures indicate that

2 almost 50 percent of the students who qualify,

3 also would qualify for some other form of

4 student financial assistance, which, in my

5 opinion, explodes the myth that this would only

6 be available to students who are from higher

7 income families, therefore exploding --

8 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the

9 room.)

10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- the myth that if

11 you create an incentive based scholarship

12 program, you're going to be putting some

13 families in harm's way, because certainly as --

14 again, as the myth, poor children or children

15 from lower socioeconomic strata and aren't going

16 to be able to attain that.

17 And I think already -- and, again, you're

18 right -- with the numbers we have, that myth

19 appears to have been exploded, and then some.

20 And remember that beyond that some

21 50 percent, there's also another large group of

22 students -- we won't know yet how large -- but

23 I think large is a safe assumption -- of

24 students who come from middle income families

25 who are not necessarily -- would not necessarily

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 meet a means test of -- need based financial

2 assistance, but certainly would need some sort

3 of financial assistance to be able to go on to

4 postsecondary.

5 One analogy that I use when -- especially

6 when people talk about setting arbitrary

7 cut scores as to who is rich and who is poor --

8 and that is arbitrary in my mind.

9 In Dade County, the average teacher salary

10 is $40,000 a year. If two teachers in

11 Dade County who made that average teacher salary

12 combined made 40,000 each, 80,000, we know that

13 they certainly wouldn't bring home $80,000.

14 But if we created a means test, as they try

15 to do in Georgia, but an eliminator of $66,000,

16 you've just told those two Dade County teachers

17 that they are wealthy enough to be able to

18 handle their child's college education without

19 assistance from an entity.

20 And I think the example is clear. We

21 always have to be careful about setting what

22 truly are, in my opinion, arbitrary red lines

23 under a person's salary, and suggesting an

24 arbitrary manner that anyone who makes over that

25 amount of money doesn't need any help to send

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 their children to postsecondary.

2 Especially if you lay it up against the

3 study that was just done which projects, at

4 least from the the study makers, an 83 percent

5 tuition increase over the next ten years. And

6 that's concerning to me.

7 So I think, again, you are right,

8 Commissioner, the numbers are still too early,

9 I think, to make any definitive statements

10 about, but at least significant enough at this

11 point to dispel some of the myth that we've seen

12 out there from some of those who would suggest

13 that the sky is falling based on this program.

14 And I'll -- I'll end -- unless there are

15 other questions -- by saying this: Some of the

16 concern surrounding Bright Futures appears to be

17 coming from a few who I believe may be concerned

18 that either Bright Futures -- any incentive

19 based program, or programs like Prepaid College

20 Tuition, may have the residual impact of

21 suppressing their free willing ability to double

22 digit increase tuition and fees on the State

23 University System over the next ten years.

24 And if part of that is true, that's a good

25 thing. Because I am convinced, while we may

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 need to increase tuition -- and I've stated that

2 as a member of the Board of Regents

3 repeatedly -- we've got to be careful that we

4 are not doing it virtually -- in virtually

5 exclusive fashion on the shoulder of young

6 people who happen to show up at a point in time

7 where suddenly the floodgates were kicked open

8 to those tuition increases, and they and their

9 families are going to have to bear what is

10 becoming a rather significant inflation in our

11 tuition and fee rate.

12 So whatever people's agenda here -- and

13 we'll end where we started -- I will recommend

14 to you, and believe me, take any input from you,

15 or anyone else, on the Bright Futures

16 Scholarship program as we work with the

17 Legislature on evolving that program over time.

18 As long as it's based on good, hard, solid data

19 that supports those recommended changes.

20 And thanks for the discussion.

21 TREASURER NELSON: Thanks.

22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Further discussion?

23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, let me

24 just make a quick comment.

25 You know, in a day and age when achievement

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

February 24, 1998

1 or success is kind of given a backseat, I'm

2 really pleased to see that we have a program

3 that does, in fact, recognize the achievement of

4 these young people. And -- and, in fact, keeps

5 these quality students in Florida, or encourages

6 them to attend Florida schools, and continue to

7 contribute to the Florida development process.

8 So I think it's a very positive thing in

9 recognizing these people for their achievement,

10 and keeping them in Florida.

11 Thank you.

12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you, General.

13 DR. BEDFORD: Thank you.

14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.

15 (The State Board of Education Agenda was

16 concluded.)

17 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION

February 24, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Land and Water

2 Adjudicatory Commission.

3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1, request

4 approval of the minutes of the February 10th,

5 1998, Commission --

6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes,

7 Governor.

8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Minutes are moved.

10 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2 --

11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Without objec--

12 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, request

13 approval --

14 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- approved.

15 DR. BRADLEY: -- of the proposed final rule

16 establishing the books of Bonita Springs

17 Community Development District.

18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Without objection, that's

21 approved.

22 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3, request

23 approval of the proposed final rule amending the

24 boundaries of The Crossings at Fleming Island

25 Community Development District.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION

February 24, 1998

1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.

2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

4 Without objection, that's approved.

5 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory

6 Commission Agenda was concluded.)

7 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

BOARD OF TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND

February 24, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Board of Trustees.

2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion on

3 the minutes.

4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion on the minutes.

5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.

7 Without objection, that's approved.

8 MS. WETHERELL: Item 2 is a rule amendment.

9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

13 Without objection, it's approved.

14 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 3 is a

15 purchase and option agreements for the Corkscrew

16 Ecosystem CARL project, designation of the South

17 Florida Water Management District as the lead

18 managing agency, and confirmation of the

19 management policy.

20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

23 Without objection, that's approved.

24 MS. WETHERELL: Item 4, purchase agreement

25 for the North Fork St. Lucie River CARL project.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

BOARD OF TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND

February 24, 1998

1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.

2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

4 Without objection, that's approved.

5 MS. WETHERELL: Item 5, an option agreement

6 for the Archie Carr CARL project.

7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.

8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10 Without objection, that's approved.

11 MS. WETHERELL: Item 6 is an option

12 agreement for Charlotte Harbor CARL project and

13 a waiver of survey.

14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

16 Without objection, that's approved.

17 MS. WETHERELL: Item 7 is an option

18 agreement and two purchase agreements for the

19 South Savannas CARL project, and a waiver of

20 survey.

21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

24 Without objection, that's approved.

25 MS. WETHERELL: Item 8 is a purchase

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

BOARD OF TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND

February 24, 1998

1 agreement for the Department of Agriculture.

2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

5 Without objection, that's approved.

6 MS. WETHERELL: Item 9 is conceptual

7 approval of the conveyance of the W.T. Edwards

8 Hospital site for the Tampa Sports Authority.

9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.

10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

13 Without objection, it's approved.

14 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 10, a deed

15 restrictions determination.

16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Without objection, it's

19 approved.

20 MS. WETHERELL: Item 11, conceptual

21 approvement of the acquisition of

22 Federally-owned mineral rights, and an M-O-U for

23 substituting appraisal procedures.

24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.

25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

BOARD OF TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND

February 24, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

2 Without objection, it's approved.

3 MS. WETHERELL: Item 12, substitution of

4 Federal highway land acquisition procedures.

5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

8 Without objection, it's approved.

9 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 13 is an

10 option agreement for the Miccosukee Canopy Road

11 Greenway.

12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor --

13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.

14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- if I may.

15 I just -- just received a letter from

16 John Paul Bailey, the City Commissioner of the

17 City of Tallahassee --

18 And I believe several others perhaps have

19 seen this letter.

20 -- which raises some question as to whether

21 or not the City supports this purchase. I --

22 because of the lateness of this coming into the

23 equation and trying to decide, I would move that

24 we defer this item to the next Cabinet meeting.

25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

BOARD OF TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND

February 24, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved to

2 defer.

3 Second.

4 Without objection, it's deferred.

5 MS. WETHERELL: All right. Item 14.

6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,

7 I'll move to defer Item 14 until the first

8 meeting in May. My staff, I believe, has given

9 to the staff of everybody up here the reasons

10 why.

11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I --

12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- second it.

14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

15 Without, objection, it's deferred.

16 MS. WETHERELL: And that concludes our

17 agenda.

18 Thank you.

19 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal

20 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)

21 *

22 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at

23 10:49 a.m.)

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

February 24, 1998

1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

4 STATE OF FLORIDA:

5 COUNTY OF LEON:

6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that

7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the

8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand

9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing

10 pages numbered 1 through 42 are a true and correct

11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.

12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,

13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,

14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,

15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.

16 DATED THIS 26TH day of FEBRUARY, 1998.

19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR

100 Salem Court

20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301

850/878-2221

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.