1
2 T H E C A B I N E T
3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
4
Representing:
5
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
6 DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
7 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
8 BOARD OF TRUSTEES, INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
9
10 The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
11 presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
12 March 10, 1998, commencing at approximately 9:51 a.m.
13
14
15
16 Reported by:
17 LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
18 Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
19 Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
20
21
22
23 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
24 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
25
2
1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES
Governor
4
BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
7
SANDRA B. MORTHAM
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
10
BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN
Commissioner of Education
13
*
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
March 10, 1998
3
1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Tom Herndon,
4 Executive Director)
5 1 Approved 5
2 Approved 16
6 3 Approved 17
7 DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES:
(Presented by Fred O. Dickinson, III,
8 Executive Director)
9 1 Approved 30, 32
Reconsidered 78
10 Superseding Vote 198
11 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
12 Deputy Commissioner)
13 1 Approved 33
2 Approved 75
14 3 Report 80
4 Approved 102
15
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
16 ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION:
(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
17 Secretary)
18 1 Approved 103
2 Deferred 103
19
MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION:
20 (Presented by Charles L. Shelfer,
General Counsel)
21
A Approved 104
22 B through E Withdrawn 104
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
March 10, 1998
4
1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
ITEM ACTION PAGE
3
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
4 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
5 (Presented by Kirby B. Green, III,
Deputy Secretary)
6
1 Approved 105
7 2 Deferred 105
3 Approved 105
8
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
9 (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
Secretary)
10
1 Approved 106
11 2 Approved 106
3 Approved 107
12 4 Approved 107
5 Approved 107
13 6 Approved 108
7 Approved 140
14 8 Approved 140
9 Approved 195
15
INDEX TO EXHIBITS
16
Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund
17 Comparison of Models
(submitted with Original
18 transcript only)
19 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 199
20 *
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
5
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 11:09 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of
4 Administration.
5 MR. HERNDON: Item number 1 is the approval
6 of the minutes of the meeting held on
7 February 10th, 1998.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
9 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved.
12 Seconded.
13 Without objection, the minutes are
14 approved.
15 MR. HERNDON: Item number 2 has three
16 components to it. The first, Item 2 A., is that
17 the Trustees approve the premium formula for the
18 1998-99 contract year.
19 Mr. Nicholson is here. And, Governor, with
20 your permission, the members of the Board, it
21 might be worthwhile to give you just a very
22 brief background statement to bring you up to
23 where we currently are.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
25 DR. NICHOLSON: The Florida Hurricane
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
6
1 Catastrophe Fund's required to use an
2 independent consultant to develop the premium
3 formula. The formula is then approved -- and
4 goes through a process of being approved by our
5 Advisory Council, and then we come before you to
6 get final approval.
7 This year, the goal was to create as stable
8 a rates as we could, in other words, keep the
9 premiums from fluctuating year-to-year. It
10 serves the purpose of helping insurance
11 companies plan, helping consumers plan their --
12 their finances and budgets and so forth.
13 The overall impact of these rate increases
14 is roughly 1.9 percent overall. That implies a
15 2.5 percent rate increase for residential, a
16 minus 1.2 percent reduction in rates for
17 mobile home, and a plus 5.5 percent increase for
18 commercial rates.
19 Based on June 30th exposures, overall it
20 would indicate that the premiums for the
21 Cat Fund might increase by about 6 percent. But
22 we think with regard to what has been happening
23 with regard to higher deductibles being written
24 since that time, that perhaps the overall
25 premiums for the Cat Fund will come in about the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
7
1 same as they were last year, somewhere in the
2 range of 455 million to 470 million dollars.
3 Of course, the rates will vary by various
4 characteristics, such as territory,
5 construction, deductible level, and whether a
6 policy holder or a company reports to us the
7 fact that a policyholder qualifies for certain
8 credits.
9 This year we have incorporated into our
10 rating some suggestions made by
11 Commissioner Nelson last year at this meeting
12 suggesting that we give certain credits for
13 mobile homes. If a mobile home meets the HUD
14 standards, new construction after July 13, 1994,
15 those mobile homes will receive a 9 percent
16 credit.
17 We've also done some things with regard to
18 BCEGS. That's the Building Code Effectiveness
19 Grading System. We've given a 10 percent credit
20 for policies that are reported to us that show
21 where the company has given that credit.
22 We've also split it out -- split out of the
23 frame construction classification a brick veneer
24 classification. That impact would have about a
25 7.5 percent reduction for the rates for those
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
8
1 homes.
2 This year, we've also done some things with
3 regard to updating regarding investment income.
4 We've included -- since we've got four years of
5 experience now in our investment earnings, we've
6 included an investment factor that represents
7 those earnings of 5.52 percent, as opposed to
8 5 percent. So that has an impact upon -- upon
9 reducing the rates overall.
10 One of the biggest changes this year was
11 with regard to hurricane modeling. The AIR
12 model which has been used for the past
13 four years in developing the rates, this year
14 had to meet the standards of the Florida
15 Commission on hurricane loss projection
16 methodology.
17 In meeting those standards, the model has
18 been revised, and hopefully should be a better,
19 more accurate and appropriate model.
20 In doing that, what we tried to do is to
21 continue to keep the rates stable in looking at
22 that model, and applying the actuarial work to
23 results of the model. Because the rates are
24 finally determined by, first of all, using the
25 model to project losses, and then applying the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
9
1 actuarial work to ultimately develop the rates
2 which we ultimately end up with.
3 So that's kind of a brief overview. And
4 I'll be glad to answer any questions regarding
5 it.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Questions?
7 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I have a few
8 questions for the record.
9 I think that the Catastrophic Fund has done
10 a good job here, and they've moved in the right
11 directions. But there is -- basically they rely
12 on computer models that are projecting the
13 losses of future hurricanes that I, and the
14 Department of Insurance, feel overstate losses.
15 And although I'm not -- in raising these
16 questions, I'm not asking you to do anything
17 with regard to the adoption of this today. I
18 want to put on the record what I see are some
19 glaring inconsistencies here. So if I may
20 proffer a couple of questions to you.
21 You have adopted the AIR model, which is
22 one of three computer models that project
23 hurricane losses, and three computer models have
24 been adopted by this Commission.
25 And -- and the Cat Fund uses --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
10
1 (Commissioner Brogan exited the room.)
2 TREASURER NELSON: -- those.
3 And so have you, Dr. Nicholson, examined
4 all the approved models in the determination of
5 these rates for the Cat Fund?
6 DR. NICHOLSON: No, sir, we have not. The
7 reason for that is we began the rate making
8 process actually with an October --
9 October the 7th we began to discuss the issues
10 leading up to this particular year.
11 At that time, the AIR model was the only
12 model approved, and was the one that we were
13 required by law to go forward with.
14 The other models, it was uncertain when or
15 if they would be approved. They were finally
16 approved in mid-December.
17 So in terms of feasibility of using those
18 models for this year, they were not, you know --
19 due to our time frames in trying to get
20 everything done by this hurricane season, it was
21 not feasible to do that.
22 But we do plan, and we had a lengthy
23 discussion at our Advisory Council last week, on
24 evaluating these other models for next year.
25 And we have a meeting scheduled in May to look
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
11
1 at that and discuss those models pretty fully,
2 and determine how we will go about studying
3 those, and what we anticipate to -- procedures
4 to use and so forth.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Well, in the Commission
6 on Methodology, of which you chair, you have
7 adopted all three models; have you not?
8 DR. NICHOLSON: I did not chair that
9 Commission that year. This was chaired by
10 Elsie Crowell. And I am a member; and, yes, all
11 three models have been adopted.
12 TREASURER NELSON: All right. And have you
13 concluded that the -- one of those three, the
14 AIR model, on which you base these projections,
15 have you concluded that it is the most accurate
16 of the three?
17 DR. NICHOLSON: No, sir. The
18 Modeling Commission I don't believe was charged
19 with the responsibility of selecting the best of
20 the models, but more along the lines of
21 approving or adopting models that meet certain
22 specifications or standards as adopted by the
23 Commission.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I want to enter
25 into the record, and I will give it to the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
12
1 stenographer, the Florida Hurricane Catastrophe
2 Fund Comparison of Models.
3 And on this Comparison of Models, as to
4 what would be hurricane --
5 (Commissioner Brogan entered the room.)
6 TREASURER NELSON: -- losses, we have huge
7 variations between the AIR model, which is used
8 for these computations, shows three times as
9 much loss -- or what the charges per thousand
10 dollars in the rate making, three times as much
11 for a framed dwelling.
12 And on a masonry dwelling, it shows five
13 times as much as one of the other models,
14 specifically the EQE Cat model. And on a
15 mobile home, it shows over five times as much.
16 So this -- what I'm going to submit for the
17 record has been demonstrating what I've been
18 saying all along. Here you have three computer
19 models projecting hurricane losses, and,
20 therefore, what insurance rates should be as a
21 result, three adopted by the Commission with
22 widely varying rates as to what they ought to
23 be.
24 And that is underscoring what I am
25 contending is the inadequacy and the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
13
1 unreliability of these computer models.
2 Now, let me ask you about mobile homes.
3 You determined that there should be a 9 percent
4 credit in -- in the determination, what you just
5 said. And that was mainly because of the new
6 Federal standards; was it not?
7 DR. NICHOLSON: Right.
8 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. And I thank you
9 for that. And I thank you for all these credits
10 that you've put in. And that's very, very good.
11 But you offset that 9 percent credit on
12 mobile homes by an increase in the loss cost
13 projected by the AIR, by the computer model.
14 So could you share with us for the record
15 how you determined the credit for mobile homes
16 built into the new construction standard, and
17 how you adjusted the loss cost to incorporate
18 this credit.
19 DR. NICHOLSON: The -- the model takes in
20 consideration this -- the standard. So it's
21 modeling the fact that there are mobile homes
22 built after that date in the model.
23 So, in the final analysis, it's kind of
24 like a zero sum gain. There'll be some
25 mobile homes that get a discount, and some rates
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
14
1 would go up. Overall, it's a minus
2 1.2 percent --
3 TREASURER NELSON: Right.
4 DR. NICHOLSON: -- effect.
5 TREASURER NELSON: So in -- to conclude
6 then, in effect, what you did by giving the
7 credit overall of 9 percent, that was offset by
8 the AIR computer model projecting increases. So
9 the net result was that the credit was
10 eliminated because of the computer projection;
11 is that correct?
12 DR. NICHOLSON: That's not the way I
13 understand it. I understand it that -- overall,
14 that the mobile home rate went down 1.2 percent,
15 and it -- it was a balancing effect. The --
16 10 percent of the mobile homes are projected to
17 be eligible for that 9 percent credit. So even
18 in the sum total of it, the rates did come down
19 1.2 percent.
20 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
21 TREASURER NELSON: Well, as I understand
22 it, the Hurricane Cat Fund selected a credit of
23 9 percent, and offset the effect of the credit
24 by increasing the loss cost by 9.89 percent for
25 older mobile homes.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
15
1 And the AIR model assumed that all
2 mobile homes complied with the new standard.
3 That was my understanding.
4 DR. NICHOLSON: Okay. And I don't
5 understand it that way. And that -- my -- and
6 that would not affect the mobile home rate. The
7 Cat Fund rate is a small portion of the
8 mobile home rate. It's only, like, one-fifth of
9 the mobile home rate.
10 And there are instances where, you know,
11 you change a couple of pennies and it looks like
12 a large percentage increase, but it's, you know,
13 a couple of dollars. So we could look at that,
14 and we could evaluate exactly what it is in
15 terms of dollars and percentages if you would
16 like.
17 TREASURER NELSON: Yeah. I'm not faulting
18 you for your rates. Your rates -- and, indeed,
19 they just go up by pennies or dollars. I
20 understand that.
21 What I am assaulting is what I have
22 maintained from day one, that these computer
23 models are bought and paid for by the insurance
24 industry, and they way overproject the losses
25 when compared to the actual losses, the economic
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
16
1 losses of hurricanes.
2 And it is my contention that Florida,
3 through its State University System, ought to
4 build its own computer model. And until we do,
5 and that would take us about two years, that we
6 ought to make these industry bought and paid for
7 computer models advisory instead of mandatory.
8 Thank you, Governor.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I presume we have to
11 have some sort of motion --
12 MR. HERNDON: That was my next --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- on --
14 MR. HERNDON: -- comment, Governor.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- Item 2 A., B.,
16 and C. And so I will move Item 2 A., B., and C.
17 I'm really not sure though if
18 Commissioner Nelson wants to perhaps go back and
19 visit Item A., which then spills over on B. and
20 C.
21 TREASURER NELSON: No, I second the motion.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. HERNDON: Item number 3 is the final
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 10, 1998
17
1 item on today's agenda. It's submitted for your
2 information and review, the investment
3 performance and fund balance analysis reports
4 for the month of January 1998.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'll move
6 Item 3.
7 MR. HERNDON: Thank you, Governor.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 TREASURER NELSON: I second it.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Without objection.
11 Thank you, sir.
12 MR. HERNDON: Thank you.
13 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
14 was concluded.)
15 *
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
March 10, 1998
18
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Highway Safety.
2 MR. DICKINSON: Governor, Item 1 is
3 consideration of a request to establish a
4 management review team.
5 As everyone's aware, this is the
6 Controller's report on our Agency. And I think
7 you've been provided responses that we --
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Can we take up the
9 minutes?
10 MR. DICKINSON: No, sir, we don't have any
11 minutes of this --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.
13 MR. DICKINSON: -- this item.
14 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
15 MR. DICKINSON: Governor, the -- the good
16 Lord gave us two eyes in the front of our head
17 to look forward, and that's what I'm going to
18 try to do.
19 He also gave us two ears and one mouth for
20 a reason, and I'll tell you right now that my
21 mouth may have overloaded some other body parts,
22 but I've got two ears and I intend to listen a
23 little more in the future.
24 There were ten issues cited in the report.
25 One of the issues is really a statewide issue
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
March 10, 1998
19
1 dealing with our forfeiture trust fund. FDLE --
2 we've been in touch with FDLE. The Controller's
3 recommendation is that we let them take the
4 leadership lead on this.
5 We have, as a department, sponsored two
6 bills in the House and the Senate to create a
7 separate trust fund for our forfeiture -- our
8 Federally forfeited funds. And we are dealing
9 with FDLE on that as we speak.
10 There are four items dealt with that
11 require action by our Department.
12 On the internal investigations and
13 complaint resolution process, I will report to
14 you that we have a policy in place on our
15 investigative procedures that will treat all
16 criminal procedures as criminal until the local
17 State Attorney decides otherwise. It will take
18 all settlements from the Department, for the
19 Department, and any interested members of the
20 Department.
21 Those settlement agreements will go through
22 a process of the local division, and that chain
23 of command, as well as our -- our attorneys in
24 that area. And that process will -- is embodied
25 in statute.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
March 10, 1998
20
1 There is also a policy on our member
2 investigations, which are administrative in
3 nature. If there is any criminal -- at any
4 point during the investigation, if any criminal
5 wrongdoing becomes apparent, it would then kick
6 over to the Patrol for criminal treatment to the
7 local State Attorney.
8 With regard to the applicant procedure, we
9 propose a policy that will have a
10 reconsideration appeal process for those who are
11 rejected. That process will be documented, and
12 the decision staffed by Florida Highway Patrol
13 staff, as well as our personnel people.
14 There is an additional procedure on
15 transfers and reassignments. All procedures for
16 our specialty positions will be advertised, as
17 are all other positions, and go through the
18 assessment process.
19 And with regard to our panic alarm, we now
20 have policy on the use testing and response
21 protocol to make sure that doesn't happen in
22 the --
23 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
24 MR. DICKINSON: -- future like it has in
25 the past.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
March 10, 1998
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1 With regard to the final item on dues. The
2 dues have been repaid for -- for my Bar dues, as
3 well as one other attorney in the Department.
4 And we have one other attorney who --
5 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
6 MR. DICKINSON: -- does not practice law in
7 the Department, and he's paying back in a
8 two-month process. So he's put half of his in,
9 and the rest of it should be paid by the end of
10 this month.
11 It has become apparent that we have some
12 leadership issues we need to deal with at our
13 Department. And with the help of the
14 Controller, we're going forward with a training
15 program for all of our, not only senior
16 management, but mid-level management people.
17 And we will keep you posted on that in the
18 future as to how that's progressing.
19 I would like to report back to you in any
20 fashion you desire, but my suggestion is maybe
21 we either go through our internal -- internal
22 auditor, or come to you through our -- our
23 reports every -- every quarter, our quarterly
24 reports.
25 I'd like to say that I appreciate the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
March 10, 1998
22
1 opportunity to respond to this report. I know
2 we've had some blemishes here, and we intend to
3 correct them and go forward.
4 I'm in no way shirking any responsibility.
5 I am responsible for what goes on out there.
6 And we'll get it cleaned up.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Questions?
8 Yes, sir.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, just a
10 comment, and then a motion. I don't want to
11 preclude any other discussion on the topic.
12 In December, we agreed to have
13 Comptroller Milligan examine additional
14 information provided by Ron Grimming in his
15 letter of resignation. As a result of that
16 investigation, several actions, I think, were
17 shown to be inappropriate.
18 And I want to reiterate the most troubling
19 of these so that what I consider to be
20 management problems might be dealt with, and
21 corrected, more importantly, in the future.
22 Improper intervention in a criminal
23 investigation which resulted in
24 Lieutenant Folsom attaining retirement benefits
25 more suitable for a Highway Patrolman in good
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
March 10, 1998
23
1 standing.
2 Additionally, while being questioned about
3 the incident, Mr. Dickinson's statement directly
4 conflicts with the statements made by Grimming,
5 Takach, Folsom, and Senator Williams. That's
6 troubling.
7 More importantly, the report indicated,
8 I think, a pattern of management problems and
9 lack of adherence to many rules and procedures.
10 My review of the Comptroller's report
11 indicates that a management review team would
12 probably uncover a similar pattern of management
13 problems, and would more probably be only
14 duplication of effort in that regard.
15 And I want to acknowledge that
16 Mr. Dickinson has admitted some of his actions
17 may have been improper, and has indicated that
18 he intends to tighten up his management of that
19 department, and I do deeply appreciate that. I
20 really do.
21 However, I believe that this pattern of
22 management problem may, at a minimum, be un-- a
23 conduct unbecoming a State employee as defined
24 in Chapter 112 of the Florida Statutes.
25 And, therefore, I move that, based on the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
March 10, 1998
24
1 comprehensive findings and recommendations of
2 the Comptroller, that we issue a written
3 reprimand to be placed in Mr. Dickinson's
4 personnel file.
5 And additionally, and I think this -- this
6 falls in line with what Fred himself was talking
7 about -- I recommend that in six months, the
8 Governor direct the Office of Program and Policy
9 Analysis to review the changes and procedure
10 that Mr. Dickinson has stated he will implement
11 to ensure proper implementation and adherence to
12 those policies and procedures.
13 Again, I want to thank the Comptroller for
14 the time and energy that he and his staff put
15 into -- into the investigation, and I think a
16 most credible report and recommendations. And
17 those are, I think, the most important elements
18 of all of these discussions.
19 And I want to thank Fred himself for
20 standing tall; and for working with the
21 investigation; and most importantly again, those
22 recommendations.
23 And recognize again that what you said
24 earlier is true about eyes and ears. And none
25 of these situations are easy, but the bottom
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
March 10, 1998
25
1 line, I think we can all agree, is serving the
2 people of the state of Florida in the most
3 appropriate manner possible.
4 And with that, I'd like to put that in the
5 form of a motion, Governor.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I'll second it.
8 And I have a question.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Fred, my question is
11 regarding the Florida Highway Patrol and the
12 fact that I -- I believe you've been through the
13 process of evaluating people for the position of
14 Director, and was wondering when that
15 appointment would be made.
16 My understanding -- is it -- Curt Hall is
17 the person that is ready to go, is that the --
18 MR. DICKINSON: Curt Hall was recommended
19 to me by the committee we had to look at it, and
20 his background check has come back as clean.
21 We're ready to go forward. I was seeking to get
22 these issues dealt with and behind us so we can
23 go forward.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, Governor, in that
25 regard -- and I think it's important that we
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
March 10, 1998
26
1 move forward and go for the positives. It seems
2 to me that everyone seems to be on board with
3 Mr. Hall at this point. And I would be hopeful,
4 no matter what happens, that you're able to go
5 ahead and get that done.
6 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you, Madam Secretary.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there --
8 Yes, sir. Compt--
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Just a quick
10 comment, I think, Governor.
11 I, of course, was intimately involved with
12 my people doing this investigation. And -- and
13 I think the report speaks for itself.
14 One of the -- the major aspects of the
15 report, and perhaps not really clearly
16 articulated, and perhaps appropriately not
17 clearly articulated, really deals with
18 leadership.
19 And my concern throughout this whole
20 evolution has been the leadership challenges,
21 and -- and, in fact, some leadership problems at
22 all levels, not just the problems that perhaps
23 the Director was faced with, but those beneath
24 him.
25 And for that matter, even this body I think
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1 has to assume some responsibility for the
2 leadership deficiencies or leadership
3 direction -- misdirection in some cases, within
4 the Department.
5 And so I -- I am pleased to see Fred is
6 taking on an extraordinary effort to really
7 promote leadership development. And I, for one,
8 would like to know that program, and would like
9 to participate in some of the training sessions.
10 And because I put so much emphasis
11 personally on the leadership aspects of this
12 item, and some responsibility that I as a member
13 of the Governor and Cabinet feel fall on my
14 shoulders in not perhaps doing some of the
15 leadership things that I should have been doing
16 in terms of oversight, in terms of
17 communications, I'm a little reluctant to
18 formally admonish Mr. Dickinson,
19 Secretary Dickinson.
20 But rather, I would rather see us go
21 forward with a very aggressive program to fix
22 those problems that have been identified, and at
23 the same time, really put a tremendous effort
24 into leadership and total quality leadership. I
25 prefer to call it TQL, not TQM. But total
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1 quality leadership, and really put the emphasis
2 on leadership in the future.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
5 General?
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, I
7 concur with the General. I believe that a
8 reprimand is -- for one thing, I think it's too
9 premature. I don't think it's needed at this
10 time. The report obviously is -- is critical
11 enough. There will be steps being taken to
12 correct it.
13 And I also agree with the General that
14 perhaps some of the blame lies up here at this
15 particular podium. For the reason, a number of
16 years ago, the Cabinet, we used to split up and
17 alternate every year where -- where two of us
18 would, in essence, be advisors to various of
19 these departments. And we'd meet with the
20 leadership on a regular basis, where they would
21 then be able to advise us to certain things
22 occurring in the agency, and we would also have
23 a dialogue with them.
24 The dialogue we have here now is at best
25 maybe 20 times a year, and it's only for a few
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1 moments. We end up with a long Cabinet meeting,
2 we don't really have the chance to interact the
3 way we should be.
4 So for that reason, I think to -- and
5 I think it's probably unprecedented to reprimand
6 a Director. I don't know -- in my eleven years
7 up here, we've never reprimanded an
8 Executive Director. We've fired a few, but
9 we've never reprimanded any. And -- and I'm not
10 offering the alternative here.
11 But it is very difficult being an
12 Executive Director of an Agency when you have
13 seven bosses, and you really have no one
14 assigned as a person to deal with.
15 So I think we have to assume some of the
16 blame also.
17 So I would vote no on this motion.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Further discussion.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- many -- many of you
22 will recall that we did have some Cabinet reform
23 issues that we looked at that would have solved
24 some of the problems that --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Uh-hum.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- the Attorney General
2 just spoke of.
3 I'd like to amend the motion and strike the
4 reprimand and allow for the six-month review by
5 the Office of Program and Policy Analysis.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I would second that.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. There's been
8 an amendment that's been seconded.
9 Do you accept --
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I can accept that,
11 Governor.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- accept the amendment?
13 Is there a discussion on that?
14 So many as favor that, signify by saying
15 aye.
16 THE CABINET: Aye.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
18 It's adopted.
19 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Now, what is
20 the motion as it stands now?
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: What was it?
22 TREASURER NELSON: No. You just adopted an
23 amendment. Now I want to know what the motion
24 is as amended.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: The amendment was
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1 accepted, so the vote was on the amended thing.
2 But we will not consider that final until you
3 have an opportunity to --
4 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. What is the
5 posture that we are voting on now?
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: The amendment would be
7 to strike the reprimand, and to recommend that
8 a -- that in six months, the Governor direct the
9 Office of Program and Policy Analysis review the
10 changes and procedures that Mr. Dickinson has
11 stated he will implement.
12 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. Is that the total
13 motion before us then, is to have a six months
14 report?
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: (Nodding of head.)
16 TREASURER NELSON: Okay.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's correct.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: A review by the Office
19 of Program --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Let's take a
21 vote again.
22 So many as favor that, signify by saying
23 aye.
24 THE CABINET: Aye.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
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1 It is adopted.
2 Thank you.
3 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you, Governor.
4 Cabinet.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
6 (The Department of Highway Safety and Motor
7 Vehicles Agenda was continued.)
8 *
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: The State Board of
2 Education.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move the minutes.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded --
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- on amendments.
8 Without objection, the minutes are adopted.
9 DR. BEDFORD: Item 2, appeal of the Florida
10 Charter Schools, Don McCammon, which was denied
11 by the Orange County School Board.
12 I'd like to read into the record: The
13 State Board of Education will now consider an
14 appeal of a denial of a charter school
15 application pursuant to Chapter 96-186, Laws of
16 Florida.
17 Let me take a moment to explain the
18 process. As prescribed by law, Florida School
19 Boards are given authority to grant approval to
20 applicants who wish to offer a charter school
21 within a District.
22 A further provision of the law allows an
23 applicant who has been denied a charter, the
24 right to appeal the School Board's decision to
25 the State Board of Education.
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1 Based on the written record and the oral
2 argument presented at this meeting, the
3 State Board must vote to recommend acceptance or
4 rejection of the appeal of the School Board.
5 The vote requires a simple majority of the
6 members, and by law, is not subject to the
7 provisions of the Administrative Procedures
8 Act.
9 The rule governing the appeal process was
10 unanimously adopted by the Cabinet, sitting as
11 the State Board of Education, on December 10th,
12 1996.
13 It very clearly states how this hearing
14 must proceed, and it specifies the following
15 limitations which must be respected by the
16 applicant, the School District, and their
17 representatives.
18 A Notice of Appeal must be based on errors
19 the applicant charges the School Board made in
20 its decision to deny the charter.
21 The written argument submitted by the
22 applicant to the State Board is limited to
23 discussion of those errors.
24 The record of this proceeding is limited to
25 the written arguments, the charter school
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1 application itself, and transcripts of meetings
2 before the District School Board.
3 At this hearing, representatives of each
4 party may give oral argument. Oral argument is
5 limited to a summary of the written arguments
6 previously submitted to the State Board.
7 Each side is allocated 10 minutes to
8 present its summary. After the summaries are
9 presented, a vote will be taken, and a written
10 recommendation of the vote will be returned to
11 the District School Board.
12 At this time, I'd like to introduce
13 Don McCammon, who will present the argument for
14 Florida Charter Schools.
15 Don.
16 MR. McCAMMON: Honorable Governor Chiles,
17 Commissioners, thank you for the opportunity to
18 appear.
19 I want to give you a brief background. My
20 name's Don McCammon. I'm a licensed mental
21 health counselor. I'm also a clinical
22 supervisor for the adolescent residential
23 campus, a DJJ facility.
24 Today with me is Bob Boyd, one of our
25 attorneys who will appear; and also
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1 Dr. Charles English, the President of Florida
2 Charter Schools.
3 Briefly, we first applied December 10th --
4 this application -- in 1996, for
5 Franklin Charter High in Orange County. We gave
6 them two extensions of time in order to consider
7 our application.
8 That application was denied by their Board
9 on February 25th, 1997. And we requested a
10 letter stating what the deficiencies were in the
11 application.
12 The appeal was heard before the State Board
13 on April 15th, 1997. The State Board upheld
14 their denial, with the stipulation that they
15 would give us a letter stating what the
16 deficiencies were so that we could resubmit an
17 application.
18 That -- we never received that letter,
19 despite numerous requests from the State -- from
20 the School Board, a written and verbal request.
21 Nonetheless, we went ahead and resubmitted an
22 application, basically this same application,
23 amending and changing all of the deficiencies
24 that they had found in the prior application.
25 We resubmitted it on October 27th, 1997.
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1 At the time we told them that we were
2 resubmitting a little bit earlier than we had
3 the prior year, simply because it took so long.
4 The process and planning and working on a
5 high school was a lengthy process, and we wanted
6 the additional time.
7 We were denied by them on December 9th.
8 During the course of that submittal, and up to
9 the time of the denial, the staff refused us the
10 opportunity to meet with them and negotiate or
11 discuss any problems that they had with our
12 application.
13 And that was contrary to their previous
14 process, where with all prior applicants after a
15 submittal had been made, they had met with, and,
16 in fact, negotiated right up to the time of the
17 actual public hearing.
18 But despite our requests, written and
19 verbal, they refused to meet with us to discuss
20 it.
21 We filed the appeal then on January 8th.
22 And we stand before you now appealing before the
23 State Board of Education.
24 Briefly, it's a charter high school,
25 innovative in many ways. In fact, Dr. Williams,
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1 a Deputy Superintendent, said last year at the
2 public hearing held on February 25th, that I
3 would say that Florida Charter School,
4 Incorporated's, proposal has really a lot of
5 unique features.
6 The use of an alternative delivery model to
7 serve high school students, such as after school
8 and evening programs, has been an area of great
9 interest for the staff.
10 They argue this year that we are not
11 innovative. Some of our innovations include, we
12 have trimesters where the students only take two
13 courses at one time. They can earn a third
14 credit by working or doing community service.
15 So they can earn 9 credits in a year.
16 We have classes four nights a week. We
17 give personal education plans to every student,
18 which is not done in Orange County.
19 They take entry assessment tests so we can
20 accurately assess how they're doing, and help
21 them in a personal education plan. We require
22 1 credit in computer, which is the only school
23 in central Florida that I know that requires
24 that.
25 Some of our courses -- since there's such a
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1 high dropout rate with Hispanic students, some
2 of our courses, such as algebra, will be taught
3 in Spanish, and in English, to try and make the
4 school more inviting.
5 We have a stricter dress code, a stricter
6 conduct code, we have an honor council of the
7 children -- of the kids, and a disciplinary
8 committee made up of parents and staff members.
9 We have an average class size of only
10 15 students. Their average class size is over
11 30 students. We have weekly advisory groups.
12 Students that drop below a 2.0 are put on
13 academic probation, and requested to attend
14 tutoring, which is offered free of charge a half
15 an hour before class every evening.
16 We offer diplomas with a major. We have a
17 drug-free workplace, which Orange County schools
18 are not a drug-free workplace.
19 And we stated to them in our application
20 that we would use any school site, including a
21 middle school site, which we mentioned at a work
22 session with the School Board.
23 As -- as Representative Dan Webster stated
24 accurately in a letter of support to
25 Dr. Charles English, this would save the
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1 community about 8 million dollars in new
2 construction costs by making use of existing
3 public facilities, and at the same time, reduce
4 crowding in our public schools.
5 I'd like now to turn it over to Bob Boyd.
6 MR. BOYD: Governor, members of the
7 Cabinet, my name is Bob Boyd representing FCS.
8 There's two major legal issues here. We
9 feel that the Orange County made a mistake in
10 their denial. And I would like to point you to
11 the transcript of your last hearing where you
12 denied the first application of this charter
13 school.
14 Mr. Kruppenbacher, who's the attorney for
15 the Orange County School Board said:
16 Mr. Milligan, I will tell you that I have
17 told Mr. McCammon, and I will tell any applicant
18 who was denied at the Orange County
19 School Board, that they would have a right to
20 resubmit and attempt to deal with the issues
21 that were raised by the School District.
22 I believe that's the inherent spirit of the
23 charter school law.
24 And Comptroller Milligan said: And then
25 did he, in fact, send the letter to you -- to
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1 the School Board asking for the reasons for the
2 denial?
3 And Mr. Kruppenbacher goes on to say he
4 sent a letter to the Orange County School
5 District.
6 And Comptroller Milligan then goes on to
7 say: And so, did -- and so you did not answer
8 the letter, but felt that the record of
9 the Board meeting defined the reasons for the
10 denial.
11 And Dr. Williams said: Correct.
12 And what I'm trying to get to is here --
13 And Commissioner Brogan also said: It is
14 my hope that Mr. McCammon will continue to work
15 with the school system, and see if at a
16 different and more appropriate time he may be
17 able to refile and resubmit an application for
18 future consideration. And I agree with counsel
19 that I think everyone has the right to go back
20 again and resubmit.
21 The point is that this Board directed the
22 Orange County School -- School District to give
23 a letter to my client to correct any
24 deficiencies in his application.
25 He then went --
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Who --
2 MR. BOYD: -- ahead and resubmitted --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Read me that language.
4 I mean -- or just tell me where that came from,
5 because I -- and I don't -- I don't have a
6 recollection of that. But it -- I don't have a
7 recollection of a lot of things in that.
8 Just show me that, if you would.
9 MR. BOYD: Yes, Governor. In -- on page 59
10 of the transcript --
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
12 MR. BOYD: -- of the last hearing in --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Go ahead.
14 MR. BOYD: -- this denial,
15 Comptroller Milligan said: If I may, Governor,
16 I do believe that the School Board should have
17 responded to that correspondence, regardless of
18 the assumption that the denial and the reason
19 for the denial was contained in the record of
20 the School Board meeting.
21 And then you said, Governor: All right.
22 It's been moved and seconded. Request that the
23 School Board submit the letter.
24 And that was at the previous denial of --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
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1 MR. BOYD: -- this application.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
3 MR. BOYD: That was never done. And,
4 in fact, four months later, my client wrote the
5 Orange County School Board asking for that
6 letter. And the staff would not meet with FCS
7 to discuss what their reasons for denial were,
8 and they never got the letter.
9 Six months later, Charles English, who's
10 sitting right here, wrote Dr. Smith and said, we
11 are resubmitting an application, but since we
12 never got your letter, we're going to correct
13 the deficiencies you raised in the original
14 appeal, which we did, because we never got a
15 letter detailing what those deficiencies were.
16 It's my contention that there is basically
17 a lack of due process here. Orange County fails
18 to comply with your instructions, and then moves
19 the yardsticks and says, now you've got to do
20 (a), (b), (c), and (d) in this second
21 resubmittal of an application.
22 Orange County could keep this up and up and
23 up, and it's an arbitrary way to handle a
24 charter school application. And you're sending
25 a message to all the school boards out there to
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1 follow the rules, and we believe that
2 Orange County is not doing so.
3 Our other contention is that the staff of
4 the School Board used a different standard to
5 evaluate this charter school application than it
6 did in the other two charter school applications
7 that were granted in Orange County. And this
8 arbitrary evaluation to consider this
9 application is magnified by the fact that they
10 didn't even send FCS a letter detailing what
11 those deficiencies were, or even meet with
12 Florida Charter Schools.
13 We were not given notice about this issue.
14 We did our best in resubmitting an application.
15 And the final point is, the Orange County
16 School Board would now argue that our proper
17 remedy is in the District Court of Appeal to
18 appeal the first denial of the charter school
19 application. That is incorrect.
20 Because under the charter school law, we
21 submitted a second application, which has got to
22 be treated like a new application. There's
23 nothing in the law that says that you can't go
24 back and resubmit a new charter school
25 application, which is what you encouraged
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1 Florida Charter Schools to do, and which is what
2 they did.
3 So we would argue that there is a
4 fundamental lack of due process in this case,
5 and that my client was treated arbitrarily, and
6 that Orange County did not comply with your
7 instructions.
8 And Dr. English wanted to make a few
9 comments to this Cabinet.
10 Thank you.
11 DR. ENGLISH: Good morning. I greet you
12 this morning with optimism and assurance --
13 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
14 room.)
15 DR. ENGLISH: -- that education remains an
16 imaginative act of hope.
17 It has been said that the true measure of a
18 man is not where one stands during the time of
19 confident convenience, but where a person stands
20 through the time of conflict and challenge.
21 And I come before you today quite
22 challenged in a serious conflict, I believe.
23 I've been told that I'm not a leader, that I
24 don't have the leadership ability to lead
25 Florida Charter Schools.
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1 And I draw from the spirit of the orator
2 and woman's rights advocate and abolitionist,
3 Sojourner Truth, when she was challenged
4 regarding her womanhood.
5 And I say, am I not a leader?
6 She said, ain't I a woman.
7 And I say, am I not a leader.
8 My background is that I attended
9 Boyland Mather Academy and graduated, went on to
10 college, was a -- one of the founding members of
11 Epsilon Chi Chapter in Alpha Phi Omega at Clark
12 College; became President after having been Vice
13 President of Service for that organization.
14 I graduated, went on to get my master's
15 degree from Mankato State University in
16 Minnesota. I later returned to Clark Atlanta,
17 and had the fortune of starting a leadership
18 development program, Proteges of Leadership,
19 where I personally became a student of
20 leadership. In directing students in this
21 process, I learned all that I could learn about
22 leadership itself.
23 I later went on to University of Florida,
24 and received a Doctorate of Philosophy degree in
25 counseling psychology where I studied under
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1 the -- Dr. James Wattenburger, the -- one of the
2 founding members of the Florida Community
3 College System in the higher education course.
4 I also studied under Chester Schriescheim,
5 a management professor. In fact, my
6 subspecialization was in organizational behavior
7 and leadership.
8 I volunteered in Scouting for over
9 15 years. I'm currently on several committees,
10 the advisory council in both Orange County and
11 Seminole County, Florida. I've been a -- a
12 youth leader throughout the community.
13 I'm currently working --
14 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
15 DR. ENGLISH: -- on a project where we're
16 having the Commissioner of the Department of
17 Juvenile Justice to come down for our Juvenile
18 Awareness Week -- Juvenile Justice Awareness
19 Week.
20 I'm founder of my private business, and I'm
21 in business now for ten years, Charles English
22 and Associates, licensed mental health
23 therapist, consultant, and trainer.
24 In fact, I'm a member of Leadership
25 Dynamics International, where I train persons in
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1 leadership.
2 In fact, I'm curious about the proposal for
3 the RFP for the leadership training that's
4 coming up, Mr. Milligan.
5 I've studied leadership, I'm a student of
6 leadership. I've been in positions of
7 leadership. In fact, again, I train people to
8 be leaders.
9 I ask people two questions in regards to
10 leadership when they ask me what is a leader. A
11 leader is not just a person who is in a position
12 of leadership. But a leader is a person who
13 knows where he or she is going.
14 A leader has vision. And my role with
15 Florida Charter School is to help establish the
16 vision of the organization.
17 And the second question I ask people who
18 aspire to be leaders is: Where are your men; or
19 where are your people, your men and women. And
20 I have men and women. I have -- there are an
21 outstanding list of persons on our Executive
22 Committee, including Dr. J. Stanley Marshall,
23 here in Tallahassee, the Chairman of
24 James Madison Institute; Ted Doss, attorney,
25 Doss & Sims, P.A.; Al Anderson, CPA,
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1 Comptroller, Earth Resources; myself;
2 Jessica Poisson, Chief Administrator for the
3 Allen Group; Robert Muni, Chairman of Florida
4 On-Line High Schools; Jean White; and,
5 of course, our Executive Director, Don McCammon.
6 Now, am I not a leader? Florida Charter
7 School said --
8 (Governor Chiles exited the room.)
9 DR. ENGLISH: -- well, Orange County
10 schools says that I'm not a leader, I don't have
11 the leadership abilities. And personally I take
12 issue with that. That's not only a personal
13 affront, but also an insult to almost 30 years
14 of professional experience in academia, and in
15 private community service.
16 Am I not a leader?
17 Thank you for your time.
18 DR. BEDFORD: At this time, the
19 Orange County School Board will present
20 Deputy Superintendent Bob Williams, and attorney
21 Frank Kruppenbacher.
22 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Members of the Cabinet,
23 good morning. My name is Frank Kruppenbacher.
24 I'm General Counsel for the Orange County
25 School Board.
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1 With me is Dr. Bob Williams, the
2 Deputy Superintendent for Instructional
3 Services; and Mr. Drew Thomas, an outside
4 attorney with our District.
5 Last year I spoke with you regarding your
6 denial of the previous application, which has
7 been refiled. At that time, I came before you
8 with a District in the following condition:
9 Community-wide distrust; a superintendent who
10 was leaving under attack from the community,
11 business --
12 (Governor Chiles entered the room.)
13 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: -- parents, press; a
14 lack of leadership within our facility
15 organization, having our Associate
16 Superintendent terminated, the person below him
17 terminated, and I think one manager left out of
18 about a dozen or more.
19 I was in the midst of a criminal
20 investigation regarding activity down there.
21 And we were implementing the new charter school
22 law that the Florida Legislature passed.
23 At that time, our School Board approved two
24 charters, and denied one. The process we went
25 through fundamentally involved Dr. Bob Williams
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1 evaluating each charter, and then reporting to
2 the School Board.
3 I come before you this year with a great
4 deal of pride that we now have a highly
5 qualified new superintendent who's galvanized
6 our business community and our parents, who is
7 just completing the audit that the State funded
8 with KPMG, and announcing tonight the
9 appointment and reorganization of the
10 Orange County School District into five
11 subdistricts with area superintendents driving
12 all resources out to the schools, subletting out
13 District facilities to private entities to raise
14 revenue, and every dollar and resource we have
15 being directed to the classroom.
16 This superintendent, Dr. Dennis Smith, when
17 he came on board, was educated as to the issues
18 regarding charter schools.
19 The first observation he made was, our
20 process last year was flawed. It was flawed
21 because we did not have the ability to say
22 everybody was being treated equally. We did not
23 have the ability to say, our community
24 participated in the process. We did not have
25 the ability to say our teachers participated in
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1 the process. We did not have the ability to say
2 our administrators participated in the process.
3 And he charged Dr. Williams with the
4 responsibility for this year of defining and
5 coming up with a process that could be
6 consistently applied, that could require input
7 from everybody in our organization and outside
8 our organization to be sure that the final
9 product absolutely benefited the children in our
10 county.
11 The result of that was the definition of a
12 new process this year, that this applicant went
13 through, and I emphasize to you that the other
14 two applicants went through. All three were
15 treated identically the same.
16 That involved an invitation by Dr. Williams
17 to meet with each applicant with his people, and
18 work through drafts before they were filed.
19 Because when the filing hits, you go into the
20 60-day period to work through the product.
21 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
22 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Two other applicants at
23 that time chose to go that route.
24 This applicant, instead, chose to
25 immediately the next day file the application.
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1 All three applicants were told by
2 Dr. Williams that once they filed the
3 application, we were not going to be
4 negotiating. The process would go as follows:
5 There would be a proposal review committee. All
6 three applicants were reviewed by that
7 committee.
8 Who was on that? Two teachers of the year
9 with extraordinary experience in dealing with
10 at-risk children, who the children at this
11 high school would look to be serving; a deputy
12 superintendent for instruction; an associate
13 superintendent for instruction, secondary
14 education, who I say was an award winning
15 principal within our District, and won a blue
16 ribbon high school award that this State
17 processed through the Federal Government -- so
18 truly understood delivering services at
19 Apopka High School; and an educational program
20 consultant.
21 Each applicant, including this applicant,
22 went through that committee. Each applicant
23 went through an interview committee. That
24 process was our targeted selection process that
25 evaluated each applicant's management personnel,
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1 the same way we evaluate whether or not we will
2 consider you eligible to be a member of the
3 management team at the Orange County
4 School Board in a school.
5 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
6 room.)
7 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: All three applicants
8 went through the same process.
9 Two applicants came through that process
10 with recommendations to go forward; one did not,
11 the applicant before you.
12 The interview committee. That committee
13 again had educators, and, more importantly, that
14 committee involved the President of Nations Bank
15 from our business community.
16 We had our COVE Committee, which some of
17 you may be aware of. The Construction Oversight
18 Value Engineering Committee, which has been
19 working with us has saved us 5 to 7 million
20 dollars out of the box, looked at our
21 facilities.
22 We have absolutely galvanized the
23 community. So the process this year is
24 different.
25 Is it different to penalize an applicant,
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1 no? It's different to make us a stronger school
2 system, to help the applicants, and to do
3 ultimately what's best for the children in
4 Orange County.
5 The results of this process, in a letter
6 that -- that was sent to this applicant, there
7 were over 16 deficiencies identified.
8 Teacher of the Year, Deana Costner, spent a
9 lifetime dealing with at-risk children. Her
10 comments in her evaluation, which is in the
11 record: The educational program does not match
12 the needs of at-risk students.
13 These people didn't come up with
14 substantive problems just to pick out this
15 applicant. They've never been in these
16 processes. They came up with it to do what was
17 right for children.
18 Ultimately I have to apologize to you, and
19 I would tell you if there's anyone to chastise,
20 I'll take responsibility for it.
21 Controller Milligan did ask that a letter
22 be sent. We did prepare a letter that
23 transmitted our brief to go from the
24 superintendent.
25 In the midst of the year we were having, I
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1 can't explain to you why it didn't go. I'll
2 take accountability for that. Chastise me,
3 chastise my client. But what I am hearing is a
4 fallacious argument.
5 The brief that you were submitted and given
6 last year that outlined every deficiency was
7 given to this applicant. He was told by
8 Mr. Williams those were all the deficiencies.
9 He was told by me regarding the process he had
10 gone through the previous year.
11 Because the process has been improved and
12 this applicant can't stand muster doesn't mean
13 we were unfair. It means we're trying to be
14 better.
15 Because we made the mistake regarding the
16 letter doesn't mean we turn around and say,
17 children of Orange County, you're going to get
18 less than the best. My School Board doesn't
19 believe that; my Superintendent doesn't believe
20 that; and in my heart, I don't believe any of
21 you believe that.
22 So I'd respectfully ask you, when you look
23 at this record, and you look at the caliber of
24 people that are involved in education that
25 evaluated this product, it supports a good cause
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1 finding that this applicant should not be
2 awarded a charter.
3 And I thank you for listening to me.
4 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, may I ask a
5 question?
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Does the letter that you
8 refer to that was written but not sent, does it
9 respond to the motion that was made here on the
10 Cabinet?
11 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Yes. That letter said,
12 attached is our brief. It articulates
13 specifically the reasons why we found your
14 original application deficient.
15 TREASURER NELSON: Is that letter a part of
16 the record of this proceeding?
17 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: No. We did not make
18 that letter a part of this record.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: But you're saying you did
20 submit a brief, or that brief was given to the
21 applicant?
22 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Yes. That brief was
23 given, that brief was given to each of you last
24 year. And there's nothing we would have said
25 differently.
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1 That's why Dr. Williams came to me with the
2 draft after -- after the thing, I approved the
3 draft. And Bob and I kind of looked at each
4 other when this issue came up and said, where's
5 the letter. We went to the Superintendent's
6 office and we could not find the letter ever
7 being issued by our former superintendent.
8 And I'm not here to put it on Don. I take
9 responsibility. That letter should have gone
10 out, and I should have made sure it got out.
11 Dr. Williams should have made sure it got out.
12 I don't want you to think the former
13 superintendent did anything. He was a fine --
14 TREASURER NELSON: Well --
15 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: -- person.
16 TREASURER NELSON: -- since there is a
17 direction to you from a motion --
18 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Yes.
19 TREASURER NELSON: -- adopted by this body,
20 would you produce that letter to the Cabinet,
21 and produce it for the record?
22 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Yes. We'll supplement
23 the record and send it up to the Cabinet.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I'd like a copy
25 today.
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1 MR. McCAMMON: I would, too.
2 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Okay.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Could I ask a
4 question, Governor?
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Just a minute. Let's see
6 if we get this -- go ahead. Can you -- do
7 you --
8 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: We're going to ask --
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- have it with you --
10 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: -- Dr. Williams to go
11 to -- and get it faxed up from his office.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Said he can
13 get it faxed to you.
14 TREASURER NELSON: All right. We -- you
15 better do it fast.
16 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Okay.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: My question is -- is
18 relative to the letter. I guess a lot of this
19 discussion is going to hinge on the
20 aforementioned letter.
21 Your statement, Counselor, is that the
22 letter would have been much a regurgitation of
23 what was sent in brief. I saw Mr. McCammon's
24 reaction to that in the audience.
25 And I guess the obvious question is: What
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1 is the difference between the brief that you
2 provided and the letter that was not sent?
3 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: None.
4 MR. McCAMMON: Forgive me. We -- I --
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Just a minute. We're
6 going to give an orderly process. You'll have
7 an opportunity to speak at a time. We're --
8 we're answering a question here now.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Counselor?
10 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Commissioner Brogan,
11 none. It simply said, attached is our -- as I
12 recall it -- our brief.
13 The brief is what we represented to this
14 Commission were our reasons. I don't think we
15 could have come up with different reasons. We
16 told the State of Florida, here were the reasons
17 we denied it. He knew it, he addressed them.
18 You know, I've yet to hear today from the
19 applicant addressing 16 substantive reasons.
20 I've heard, we made a mistake, and I accept
21 responsibility for that. Therefore, give me a
22 charter to go deal with at-risk children.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: All right. Could I
24 ask Mr. McCammon.
25 Obviously there's a difference of opinion
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1 as to the brief, slash, letter; and the letter,
2 slash, brief.
3 What's your inter--
4 MR. McCAMMON: Sub--
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: --pretation?
6 MR. McCAMMON: -- subsequent to the last --
7 last year's appeal before the State Board of
8 Education, we received no correspondence.
9 I believe what he's referring to is the
10 brief that he filed with the appeal to the State
11 Board of Education. But we received -- after
12 Commissioner Milligan requested, and it was put
13 in a motion to receive the correspondence, we
14 received nothing.
15 And we requested -- and we have the
16 letters, by the way, that we can read that we
17 requested in writing to receive those letters.
18 And we wrote that, directed that letter directly
19 to the -- and I'd be happy to read that, if
20 you'd care to hear it -- directly to the
21 State -- to the Superintendent of Schools.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So the point that
23 you're making is you already had the brief by
24 virtue of the --
25 MR. McCAMMON: In the appeal process.
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1 Yes, sir.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- appeal process
3 originally. And then there was to be
4 promulgated a letter at the direction of --
5 MR. McCAMMON: The State Board.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- the State Board.
7 MR. McCAMMON: And we received nothing
8 subsequent to that. Not only that, they didn't
9 take -- they didn't even take final agency
10 action on what the State Board promulgated
11 within the 30 days that they're required to do
12 it.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Could I ask you for a
14 hypothesis. What -- do you think the letter
15 that would have been sent would have been
16 markedly different than the brief that was
17 included in the appeal, just --
18 MR. McCAMMON: No, sir. In fact, we
19 responded precisely to the brief. So I would
20 expect it to be about the same.
21 And what you'll note in this year's -- in
22 this year's rebuttal to our application is that
23 we answered every one of the deficiencies.
24 Every deficiency that they raised in their brief
25 last year, we answered. They don't reappear
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1 this year. They've come up with a whole new
2 set.
3 So if they're using the same standard that
4 they used the previous year, then why would they
5 have any new deficiencies?
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
7 Now we get back to --
8 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Mr. McCammon wants to
9 argue to you that we should be using the same
10 standard. I've explained to you the in-depth
11 efforts that we've done to come up with a
12 consistent process. It's been applied
13 consistently to the three applicants. It's
14 being applied currently to new applicants. We
15 now have four charter schools, we're going to
16 have more charter schools.
17 I apologize to you -- particularly, you,
18 Commissioner Milligan -- regarding this issue.
19 But I do stand here very humbly saying to you
20 that the people that sat on these committees had
21 one goal, and that was to do what was right for
22 the children in our county.
23 And they substantively have said to you, as
24 they said to our School Board, this isn't
25 something to put at-risk kids at.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, if I may, I
2 think --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- I think part of
5 the confusion appears to be, if I understand it,
6 that there was one set of review process used
7 during the original submission; and based on
8 your explanation, a different process -- and I
9 put different in quotes -- a different process
10 applied to the appeal, as well as the others who
11 were -- were, indeed --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is this appeal, or is
13 this a submission of a new application?
14 I mean --
15 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: This is appeal -- an
16 appeal of a new application this year.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: I mean, here is an appeal
18 of a new application.
19 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Yes, Governor.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Okay. But the -- the
21 application was not an appeal --
22 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: No --
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- it was a submission, a
24 new --
25 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: -- correct. You're
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1 correct, Governor.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. That's what I
3 was trying to understand.
4 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: If I could follow up
5 the difference in processes.
6 You're -- when you look at Dr. Williams,
7 you're looking at what the process was last year
8 the first time around.
9 This year you'd be looking at an array of
10 teachers of the year, princ-- award winning
11 principals, and community members. So you have
12 a whole new collection of thought processes.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So we have one appeal
14 in the -- in the Court of Appeals --
15 MR. McCAMMON: That's in Seminole County --
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Oh, that's for the
17 Seminole County.
18 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: He did -- there was no
19 appeal of the prior decision to the appellate
20 court. He resubmitted a new application this
21 year, and that's what is in front of you.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: All right. And it's
23 your contention that the same standard was
24 applied to all three of the applicants under the
25 new system --
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- put in place under
3 the new --
4 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Yes.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- superintendent.
6 Thank you, sir.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Anybody else
8 have any further question?
9 My understanding -- I just -- I want to get
10 this clear. We had a statement that you sought
11 and could not get any feedback.
12 We have another statement that Dr. Williams
13 was ready to speak to anyone and to help anyone
14 prior to the time the application was
15 submitted. I just want to get that -- that
16 clear.
17 MR. McCAMMON: We submitted our application
18 purposely October 27th, prior to probably when
19 they would have preferred to receive them in
20 January.
21 And we stated to them also that since the
22 prior year, we had extended twice; that if they
23 needed additional time, we'd be happy to give
24 them additional time.
25 What we weren't afforded was the
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1 opportunity to have any discussions with staff
2 about the application once it was submitted.
3 And we were never told that that would --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, that's --
5 MR. McCAMMON: -- be the case.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, that's one thing,
7 to say --
8 MR. McCAMMON: Yes, sir.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- you know, there seems
10 to be no dispute of fact --
11 MR. McCAMMON: Yes, sir.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- on that. They say --
13 they said, once the application is submitted.
14 The question is: Prior to the time you
15 submitted your application, were they available
16 for dialogue, for looking at what you were
17 talking about submitting, to go over the things
18 with you, and you made an election to submit
19 your application.
20 MR. McCAMMON: The answer to that would be,
21 yes, because we had submitted the whole prior
22 year. And the dialogue we were waiting for,
23 sir, was the letter showing the deficiencies in
24 the application. We never got that dialogue.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, you did have a copy
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1 of the brief. You did --
2 MR. McCAMMON: Yes, sir. And we answered
3 that and overcame every objection that was in
4 that brief. They did not reappear this year.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Did you understand that
6 this was a new process, that you were going --
7 MR. McCAMMON: Absolutely. This is a new
8 application process. However, they -- they had
9 no School Board policy to change the process.
10 We didn't know what the process was going to
11 be. So they applied a different standard to us
12 than they applied in the two prior schools that
13 were approved.
14 It's a question of precedent before they
15 have a new School Board policy, which they never
16 adopted.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: But they did not --
18 MR. McCAMMON: They took it upon themselves
19 to change the policies, the staff --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well --
21 MR. McCAMMON: -- did, sir.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- they didn't apply a
23 different process to you than they did to the
24 other two applicants --
25 MR. McCAMMON: This year.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- that submitted at the
2 time -- in this new round.
3 MR. McCAMMON: Correct.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So in other words,
6 everyone is (a), aware that this was a new
7 application; and (b), that the same standard was
8 applied to this application as was applied to
9 the other schools that applied during this
10 specific round and this specific round only.
11 Are both those statements a fact, and would
12 everyone concur?
13 DR. WILLIAMS: That's correct.
14 MR. McCAMMON: Yes, sir. It was a --
15 DR. WILLIAMS: I was just going to add that
16 I -- on October 27th, when Mr. McCammon gave me
17 his application, or just prior to that, I
18 indicated that we have a new process in place.
19 And I thought it was a much more fair and
20 objective process.
21 And I advised him not to give me a final
22 draft. If he gives me a rough draft, I will
23 work with him and I will have my staff work with
24 him.
25 That's the same thing was told the other
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1 two applicants, and we did that from September
2 through December with extensive meeting with the
3 other two applicants.
4 But I -- I did indicate that once we
5 received the application, we will not continue
6 to go back and forth. We needed that in final
7 form.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Can I get a
9 clarification, Governor, on --
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- a simple thing?
12 Is this a good idea, or is it not a good
13 idea? Is this -- is this approach a good idea,
14 this charter school approach.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: There's that Marine
16 thing coming out in you --
17 MR. McCAMMON: Sir, it's an --
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I --
19 MR. McCAMMON: -- outstanding idea. I
20 devote my life to --
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: You mean the whole
22 generic question, the charter school?
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No, no. This
24 particular --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Oh.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- school approach
2 to meet a charter school requirement --
3 MR. McCAMMON: For example --
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Is it a good idea or
5 isn't it a good idea?
6 MR. McCAMMON: It's a good idea, sir, if --
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I know you
8 think it's a good idea. I'd --
9 MR. McCAMMON: Thirty percent --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- like to hear what
11 the --
12 MR. McCAMMON: Thirty percent of the
13 students in Orange County, when they were
14 surveyed, and over half of the students
15 responded, said they would prefer to attend an
16 alternative night high school. We've created
17 one that's dramatically different. It's
18 paradigm, challenging. We think it'll give many
19 thousands of kids new opportunities; and if it
20 works, could potentially save the State hundreds
21 of million dollars in new construction costs.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay. Well, I
23 knew -- I knew what your answer would be. I'd
24 like to hear from Orange County.
25 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Commissioner, my dad's
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1 a Marine, so I'm used to him telling me, just
2 get to it.
3 And the bottom line is this: All I can
4 report to you as a lawyer is that several
5 teachers of the year who have spent their life
6 with at-risk education; several principals who
7 have spent their life in education and become
8 award winning principals; members of the
9 community; and a School Board in Orange County
10 all unanimously say this is a bad application,
11 we reject it.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I didn't ask the
13 application.
14 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: No.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I tell you, your
16 father wouldn't have answered that way.
17 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: He -- I agree.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Is this a good idea
19 or not in terms of meeting a requirement in
20 Orange County?
21 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: This is not a good
22 idea. In Orange County today, this is not a
23 good idea.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Not because of the
25 way the application may be put together, not
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1 because of having met all the criteria. I'm
2 talking about the basic idea of having a school
3 that is run at a different time than normal, and
4 under slightly different circumstances.
5 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: Superintendent has
6 directed us to meet with our business partners
7 to develop the concept, because he thinks the
8 concept can be developed, and may be one that
9 would be beneficial for our District.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
11 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: And our
12 Instructional Division has been given that
13 direction, Commissioner.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So I can -- I can
15 take reassurance that this process, if it is a
16 good idea, will be appropriately pursued in the
17 future?
18 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: And I will represent to
19 this -- we will give you updates on that process
20 if you want it.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
22 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: That I will make sure
23 get to you.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Is there a
25 recommendation here?
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1 TREASURER NELSON: Well, do we have the
2 letter that they were going to produce?
3 MR. KRUPPENBACHER: He's going to have to
4 look. And, Commissioner, we do not have it with
5 us.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, based on the
8 fact -- and I have not seen the letter either.
9 But based on the fact that I would believe if --
10 if it is -- my word again, regurgitation of the
11 brief, and recognizing that this is a new
12 application -- and I think it's important -- and
13 I think the Governor helped set that in stone,
14 that we recognize with all the confusion, and
15 with the fact that this might appear to be a
16 holdover, it is, indeed, a new application, I
17 would move the following relating to State Board
18 of Education agenda Item 2: That the
19 State Board of Education accept the decision of
20 the Orange County School Board.
21 But having said that, I would also suggest
22 that a greater communication follow, because I
23 believe that what I just moved will have you all
24 back before us again. And by virtue of that
25 fact, would not at least personally like to be
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1 seated in exactly this same position in the
2 future with issues and problems still left
3 hanging.
4 I wholeheartedly support the new position
5 that the District is taking on charter schools,
6 think it will provide you with a much more
7 streamlined and effective process.
8 But I still believe that in this particular
9 case, it is worthy of going back and continuing
10 the discussion.
11 And I -- I would make that motion,
12 Governor.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved.
14 Is there a second?
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll second it.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Second.
17 Discussion?
18 So many as favor the motion, signify by
19 saying aye.
20 THE CABINET: Aye.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
22 Motion is adopted.
23 DR. BEDFORD: Thank you.
24 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
25 suspended.)
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1 (The Department of Highway Safety and Motor
2 Vehicles agenda continued.)
3 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, before we
4 proceed on the Department of Education, it has
5 come to my attention, and I just need some
6 clarification here, that the motion that was
7 offered earlier on the matter of Fred Dickinson,
8 what I had understood, since there was an
9 amendment to Mr. Brogan's motion, I had
10 understood that the report within six months was
11 going to come back to you as the Governor.
12 I have been handed documentation that
13 Frank's motion was that it didn't. That it
14 says: I recommend that in six months, the
15 Governor direct the Office of Program and Policy
16 Analysis to review the changes.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Right.
18 TREASURER NELSON: So I --
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's correct.
20 TREASURER NELSON: -- now Secretary Mortham
21 is shaking her head yes.
22 So that report in your motion was not
23 intended to come back to the Governor, but to go
24 to OPPAGA?
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's what I read. I
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1 read that exact statement that you just read.
2 It doesn't come back here, it's the Governor
3 requests OPPAGA to make the report.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'd be happy to read
5 it again.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I mean, that -- I read
7 it directly off of --
8 GO
Cabinet
Affairs