The Governor and Cabinet - Florida Department of State

Cabinet Affairs

T H E C A B I N E T

S T A T E O F F L O R I D A

Representing:

STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION

DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION

FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION

MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION

BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE

INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT

The above agencies came to be heard before

THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles

presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,

The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,

November 24, 1998, commencing at approximately

9:49 a.m.

Reported by:

LAURIE L. GILBERT

Registered Professional Reporter

Certified Court Reporter

Certified Realtime Reporter

Notary Public in and for

the State of Florida at Large

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

100 SALEM COURT

TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301

850/878-2221

APPEARANCES:

Representing the Florida Cabinet:

LAWTON CHILES

Governor

BOB CRAWFORD

Commissioner of Agriculture

BOB MILLIGAN

Comptroller

SANDRA B. MORTHAM

Secretary of State

BOB BUTTERWORTH

Attorney General

BILL NELSON

Treasurer

FRANK T. BROGAN

Commissioner of Education

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

1 I N D E X

2 ITEM ACTION PAGE

3 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:

(Presented by Tom Herndon,

4 Executive Director)

5 1 Approved 5

2 Approved 5

6 3 Approved 6

7 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:

(Presented by L.H. Fuchs,

8 Executive Director)

9 1 Approved 7

2 Approved 7

10 3 Approved 8

4 Approved 8

11 5 Approved 9

6 Approved 9

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:

13 (Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,

Deputy Commissioner)

1 Deferred 10

15 2 Withdrawn 10

3 and 4 Approved 39

16 5 Approved 40

6 Approved 40

17 7 Approved 40

8 Approved 41

18 9 Approved 41

19 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:

(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,

20 Secretary)

21 1 Approved 42

2 Approved 42

22 3 Approved 43

4 Approved 45

23 5 Approved 45

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

1 I N D E X

(Continued)

ITEM ACTION PAGE

FLORIDA LAND AND WATER

4 ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION:

(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,

5 Secretary)

6 1 Approved 46

2 Approved 49

7 3 Approved 50

8 MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION:

(Presented by Russell S. Nelson, Ph.D.,

9 Executive Director)

10 A Approved 51

B Approved 52

11 C Approved 52

D Approved 52

12 E Approved 52

13 BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE

INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT

14 TRUST FUND:

(Presented Kirby B. Green, III,

15 Secretary)

16 1 Approved 54

2 Approved 54

17 Substitute 3 Deferred 54

Substitute 4 Deferred 55

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT:

19 (Presented by Karen E. West, Esquire)

20 1 Approved 59

21 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 61

22 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 5

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

1 P R O C E E D I N G S

10:20:34 2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:20 a.m.)

10:20:34 3 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of

10:20:34 4 Administration.

10:20:38 5 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 1 is approval of

10:20:40 6 the minutes of the meeting held on

10:20:42 7 November 10th, 1998.

10:20:44 8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move approval.

10:20:44 9 TREASURER NELSON: And I second.

10:20:4610 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and

10:20:4611 seconded.

10:20:4812 Without objection, minutes are approved.

10:20:5013 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 2 is approval of

10:20:5014 a fiscal determination of an amount not

10:20:5415 exceeding thirteen million five hundred

10:20:5616 thousand dollar tax exempt, and $475,000

10:20:5817 taxable Florida Housing Finance Corporation

10:21:0218 revenue bonds, series 1998.

10:21:0419 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.

10:21:0620 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

10:21:0621 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:21:0822 Without objection, that's approved.

10:21:1023 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 3 is approval of

10:21:1224 a fiscal determination, an amount not exceeding

10:21:1425 ten million three hundred and sixty thousand

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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 6

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:21:16 1 dollar tax exempt, and $740,000 taxable Florida

10:21:20 2 Housing Finance Corporation housing revenue

10:21:22 3 bond, also 1998 series.

10:21:24 4 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.

10:21:26 5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

10:21:26 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:21:26 7 Without objection, that's approved.

10:21:28 8 MR. HERNDON: That completes the agenda.

10:21:30 9 Thank you.

10:21:3210 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

11 (The State Board of Administration Agenda

12 was concluded.)

13 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 7

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:21:32 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of Revenue.

10:21:38 2 MR. FUCHS: Good morning.

10:21:40 3 And thank you all for consideration of the

10:21:44 4 compensation question last meeting. I was not

10:21:46 5 present, but it is appreciated.

10:21:48 6 Item 1 is a request for approval of the

10:21:50 7 minutes of the October 27th, 1998, meeting.

10:21:54 8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

10:21:56 9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

10:21:5610 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:21:5611 Without objection, the minutes are

10:21:5812 approved.

10:22:0013 MR. FUCHS: Item 2 is a request for

10:22:0014 permission to notice proposed amendments to

10:22:0415 Rule Chapter 12-18, Florida Administrative

10:22:1016 Code.

10:22:1017 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.

10:22:1018 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved --

19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

20 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- and --

10:22:1221 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

10:22:1222 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.

10:22:1423 Without objection, it's approved.

10:22:1624 MR. FUCHS: Item 3, also request for

10:22:1825 permission to notice proposed amendments to

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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 8

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:22:18 1 Rule Chapter 12-21, Florida Administrative

10:22:22 2 Code.

10:22:22 3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

10:22:22 4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

10:22:24 5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:22:24 6 Without objection, the -- 3 is -- Item 3 is

10:22:26 7 approved.

10:22:28 8 MR. FUCHS: Item 4 is a lengthy request for

10:22:30 9 approval and authority to file with the

10:22:3210 Secretary of State proposed amendments and

10:22:3611 repeals to Rule Chapters 12D-1, --2, --5, --6,

10:22:4412 --7, --8, --10, --13, --16, --17, and --18.

10:22:5213 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

10:22:5414 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

10:22:5415 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

10:22:5416 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:22:5617 Without objection, that's approved.

10:22:5818 I trust that we're repealing more than

10:23:0019 we're approving.

10:23:0220 MR. FUCHS: We're clarifying as many as

10:23:0221 possible, and repealing some. I don't think

10:23:0422 we're adding any, Governor.

10:23:0823 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good.

10:23:1224 MR. FUCHS: Three actual repeals I think

10:23:1425 are contained in that.

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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 9

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:23:16 1 Item 5 is a request for approval to enter

10:23:18 2 into contract between the Department of Revenue

10:23:20 3 and the Florida Institute of Certified Public

10:23:24 4 Accountants to provide for the design,

10:23:26 5 development, and administration of the

10:23:26 6 certified audit project.

10:23:28 7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

10:23:30 8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

10:23:30 9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:23:3010 Without objection, that's approved.

10:23:3411 MR. FUCHS: And Item 6 is request for

10:23:3412 approval and concept of the Department's

10:23:3613 proposed legislative package to be submitted to

10:23:4014 the 1999 Legislature.

10:23:4215 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

10:23:4416 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

10:23:4417 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:23:4618 Without objection, Item 6 is approved.

10:23:4819 MR. FUCHS: Thank you.

10:23:4820 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

21 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was

22 concluded.)

23 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 10

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:23:50 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of Education.

10:24:02 2 MR. PIERSON: Item 1 is the appeal of a

10:24:04 3 charter school termination, Stratford

10:24:06 4 Educational Institute versus Volusia County

10:24:08 5 School Board.

10:24:08 6 We request this be deferred pending

10:24:10 7 approval by the Volusia County School Board of

10:24:12 8 a negotiated settlement.

10:24:14 9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move deferral,

10:24:1610 Governor.

10:24:1611 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

10:24:1812 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:24:1813 Without objection, Item 1 is deferred.

10:24:2214 MR. PIERSON: Item 2, capital outlay and

10:24:2215 debt service bond program software contract.

10:24:2416 We ask that this be withdrawn.

10:24:2617 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move withdrawal.

10:24:2818 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:24:2820 Without objection, it's withdrawn.

10:24:3221 MR. PIERSON: We'd request to take Items 3

10:24:3422 and 4 together.

10:24:3423 Item 3 is Rule 6A-1.09422, amendment,

10:24:3824 Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test

10:24:4225 requirements as amended.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 11

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:24:44 1 This rule was to implement the Florida

10:24:46 2 Comprehensive Assessment Test. The rule

10:24:48 3 describes the test content and design, the

10:24:50 4 students to be tested, the score scale, and the

10:24:52 5 method of reporting examinee scores.

10:24:56 6 Item 4 is Rule 6A-1.09881, amendment,

10:25:00 7 implementation of Florida System of School

10:25:02 8 Improvement and Accountability as amended.

10:25:06 9 This amendment is to revise the criteria

10:25:0810 for school accountability for student

10:25:1011 performance to replace the District norm

10:25:1212 reference test data with the Florida

10:25:1413 Comprehensive Assessment Test, F-CAT; and the

10:25:1614 Florida Writes Assessment Program, Florida

10:25:1815 Writes; achievement data for reporting school

10:25:2216 performance levels; and Florida system of

10:25:2417 school improvement and accountability.

10:25:2418 The rule delineates the method of

10:25:2819 designating each school's performance level,

10:25:3020 based --

10:25:3021 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)

10:25:3222 MR. PIERSON: -- on student achievement

10:25:3223 data, and establishes procedures for taking

10:25:3424 State Board of Education action regarding

10:25:3625 schools with critically low performing levels

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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 12

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:25:38 1 for three years.

10:25:40 2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, and members

10:25:42 3 of the State Board of Education, I've decided

10:25:46 4 against a lengthy power point presentation

10:25:50 5 today, in deference to time, and I know that

10:25:52 6 breaks your heart.

10:25:54 7 And at any point, by the way, where --

10:25:56 8 where you might want that to happen, we have

10:25:58 9 the machine close at hand. I'll be glad to

10:26:0210 bring that out.

10:26:0211 But you all, along with your staff, have

10:26:0412 worked very, very closely with us, not just on

10:26:0613 these rules, but on so many of the changes --

10:26:1014 all of the changes that have taken place over

10:26:1215 the last several years.

10:26:1416 The two rules, as Mr. Pierson mentioned to

10:26:1817 you today, are very important because they take

10:26:2218 us the next step in the accountability process.

10:26:2619 They not only codify the -- the Florida

10:26:3020 Comprehensive Assessment Test, and provide

10:26:3221 schools and parents with more information than

10:26:3422 ever before about how their students and

10:26:3823 schools are faring with the new Sunshine State

10:26:4024 Standards, but they also provide additional

10:26:4225 information and requirement on how we're going

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NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:26:44 1 to assist low performing schools in the future,

10:26:48 2 how schools are identified, not just as low

10:26:52 3 performing, but wherever they fall on that

10:26:54 4 continuum of accountability with one indicator,

10:26:58 5 which is the Florida Comprehensive Assessment

10:27:00 6 Test. And again, you all have been deeply

10:27:04 7 involved in this process from the beginning.

10:27:06 8 We also include in here information about

10:27:08 9 our continued attempts to -- and desire to

10:27:1210 close the gap when we see gaps in minority

10:27:1411 achievement and that -- making this a required

10:27:1812 part of the accountability system in the state

10:27:2013 of Florida so that we're not only addressing

10:27:2214 large and wholesale members of students, but so

10:27:2415 that we --

10:27:2616 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)

10:27:2617 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- recognize and get

10:27:2818 serious about the business of closing the gap

10:27:3019 in minority student achievement levels as a

10:27:3220 part of all of this accountability system.

10:27:3421 So we're very proud to bring this to you

10:27:3822 today. It has been through the wringer,

10:27:4023 through public hearing. The scores were

10:27:4224 actually recommended to us by a group of about

10:27:4425 100 teachers that we pulled together for

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NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:27:48 1 purposes of setting the same.

10:27:50 2 And we're using a two-year phase-in period

10:27:54 3 to make certain that people get a running start

10:27:56 4 at the new scores and the new requirements.

10:28:00 5 But I think, as I said to somebody outside,

10:28:02 6 based on the fact that this is a continuation,

10:28:06 7 not a new step, it's important to remember

10:28:08 8 that, indeed, anyone who says that they didn't

10:28:12 9 see this coming has not been paying very close

10:28:1410 attention for, say, oh, the last three, four,

10:28:1811 five years or more.

10:28:1812 So I think if you ask most people out there

10:28:2213 in school districts, they would have told you,

10:28:2414 honesty prevailing, that they recognize that

10:28:2815 this was the next logical step.

10:28:3016 We also want to thank, and I think he's

10:28:3217 here, Senator Phil Lewis who heads up the

10:28:3618 Accountability Commission.

10:28:3619 There is he.

10:28:3820 They have reviewed and recommended support

10:28:4021 of the two rules that you see before you today,

10:28:4222 as have large groups of individuals around the

10:28:4823 state of Florida.

10:28:4824 So with that, Governor, before I ask for

10:28:5025 that approval, I would also like to thank the

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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 15

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:28:54 1 members of the State Board for their continued

10:28:58 2 support, and I know sometimes support that --

10:29:02 3 that we get beat on for for not flinching, and

10:29:06 4 recognizing that, indeed, the bar should be set

10:29:08 5 where it needs to be set for the 21st century.

10:29:12 6 And then it's all of our responsibilities, as

10:29:14 7 State Board, as Florida Legislature, as school

10:29:18 8 districts, as parents, as teachers, and as

10:29:20 9 students to make certain that more Florida

10:29:2210 students can get to that bar than ever before

10:29:2411 in our state.

10:29:2612 So thank you again individually, thank you

10:29:2813 for -- collectively for all of the support that

10:29:3014 you've shown, not just to me, but more

10:29:3215 importantly to the school districts and to the

10:29:3616 schools and to the children of the state of

10:29:3817 Florida.

10:29:3818 Appreciate that very much.

10:29:4019 And at this point, we'd be glad to try to

10:29:4220 entertain questions that you all might have.

10:29:4421 Always reminding you that the power point

10:29:4622 presentation is but moments away.

10:29:5023 TREASURER NELSON: Well, should I hazard to

10:29:5224 try?

10:29:5625 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: If you want to hold

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NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:29:56 1 that question for just a minute while they

10:30:00 2 begin to reel the --

10:30:04 3 TREASURER NELSON: You know, that is very

10:30:04 4 effective. Maybe I will be quiet.

10:30:10 5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Give -- gives one's

10:30:10 6 pause; does it not?

10:30:16 7 TREASURER NELSON: Well, you remember when

10:30:16 8 this issue came up a few weeks ago, and I was

10:30:22 9 one of the people that spoke up here, and

10:30:2610 commended you for the fact that we had had

10:30:3211 158 -- I'm being real serious, even though you

10:30:3812 and I are smiling.

10:30:4013 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Slide 1 -- no, no.

10:30:4014 Go ahead.

10:30:4215 TREASURER NELSON: And I commended you

10:30:4416 because I felt like that you had done a very

10:30:4617 good job. We had 158 schools on the list, and

10:30:5218 we got them down to four under the previous

10:30:5419 standards. And now we're kicking into another

10:30:5820 whole set of standards on accountability with

10:31:0221 the F-CAT.

10:31:0422 And this brings to mind a number of

10:31:0623 questions that I would like to address.

10:31:0824 First of all, by virtue of the test that

10:31:1225 was administered last year -- or this year --

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NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:31:18 1 whenever it was -- that was the F-CAT that was

10:31:20 2 not going to count, but we got the scores. And

10:31:24 3 when you project those scores on these

10:31:26 4 standards that we are accepting today -- that

10:31:30 5 we are approving today as the State Board of

10:31:34 6 Education, the phase-in scores, and then the

10:31:36 7 scores that will be effective in 2002, then I

10:31:42 8 am concerned, and I want you to address this

10:31:46 9 issue for us, is that we have five levels here.

10:31:5410 And the higher you score, the higher the level

10:31:5611 in both mathematics and reading.

10:32:0212 And when you interpolate from the scores

10:32:0413 that occurred on the F-CAT that didn't count,

10:32:1014 applying these standards, unbelievably there is

10:32:1615 going to be a whopping percentage of the

10:32:1816 students in the two lowest levels, which is

10:32:2217 Level 1 and Level 2, which means poor

10:32:2618 performance.

10:32:3019 What -- now -- now, so we're suddenly going

10:32:3220 from a standard whereby you had 158 schools on

10:32:3821 a list, and you worked with those schools, and

10:32:4422 you reaped the benefit of that, as you should

10:32:4623 have. You got recognition, and I was one of

10:32:4824 those people giving you that recognition.

10:32:5025 And now we're setting standards that

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NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:32:52 1 suddenly we're going to find nearly half of the

10:32:58 2 schools in this state are going to be judged to

10:33:02 3 be poor performing.

10:33:04 4 Can -- can you talk to us about that?

10:33:06 5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The reason for the

10:33:10 6 phase-in was largely based on just what you're

10:33:14 7 talking about, the fact that we did not want

10:33:16 8 this to be a gotcha. Indeed, we've got

10:33:20 9 precedent here, and that is the fact that when

10:33:2210 we did start with 158 schools, when the

10:33:2411 criteria was set up very specifically and

10:33:2812 everyone knew what it was, they knew what they

10:33:3013 needed to do to perform at a higher level, and

10:33:3214 people recovered and did just that.

10:33:3415 The numbers that you see reflected in the

10:33:3616 two-year phase-in are based on some

10:33:4017 assumptions.

10:33:4018 Assumption 1 is that we would use exactly

10:33:4419 the same results from the first administration

10:33:4820 of the test. And what I mean by that is the

10:33:5021 fact that that would assume that students would

10:33:5222 do exactly the same on the next administration

10:33:5623 of the test that they did on the first

10:33:5824 administration of the test.

10:34:0025 And number one, we don't think that's going

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NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:34:02 1 to be the case. We think that not only are

10:34:04 2 people getting used now to the test, because

10:34:06 3 this will be the third actual administration.

10:34:10 4 We gave it once as a field test; once as the

10:34:12 5 first administration without scores counting;

10:34:16 6 and now this will actually be the third

10:34:18 7 administration. So schools will, in essence,

10:34:20 8 have a three-year running start at the actual

10:34:24 9 test, the test administration, the format of

10:34:2410 the test, the standards, and how the standards

10:34:2611 marry.

10:34:2812 So if you believe, as I do, that schools

10:34:3213 have been out there now for three years

10:34:3414 articulating their standards -- the Sunshine

10:34:3815 State Standards, to their curriculum, to their

10:34:4016 instruction on materials, to their teaching

10:34:4217 strategies, and recognize that the F-CAT,

10:34:4418 wherever that bar was set, was something that

10:34:4819 people now were targeting in terms of the

10:34:5020 accountability strand. If we assume that no

10:34:5421 one will do any better on this administration

10:34:5622 than they did on the first administration, that

10:34:5823 is to believe, I think, erroneously that people

10:35:0224 haven't done anything over the last three years

10:35:0425 to prepare for this, and I think they have.

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10:35:08 1 Number two, the -- the phase-in, I think,

10:35:12 2 will give us the opportunity to provide even

10:35:14 3 more opportunity to the districts and to the

10:35:16 4 schools to prepare for a steadily increasing

10:35:20 5 standard, rather than a rushed standard to put

10:35:22 6 it into place.

10:35:24 7 So the numbers -- bottom line here,

10:35:26 8 Commissioner, is that the numbers that you see

10:35:28 9 reflected assume no change in any school in the

10:35:3210 state of Florida, and putting in the new

10:35:3411 standard of accountability.

10:35:3612 And we -- while that would be a worst case

10:35:4013 scenario, and recognize that, we believe full

10:35:4214 well that not only are people becoming more

10:35:4415 comfortable with the test, but there's a whole

10:35:4616 lot of work being done out there to better

10:35:4817 assure -- not success on the test, a test is

10:35:5018 simply an -- an end result or a -- or an

10:35:5419 assessment to indicate what people are learning

10:35:5620 or not learning -- but more importantly that

10:35:5821 people in schools are putting greater focus and

10:36:0022 energy back on reading, writing, and

10:36:0423 arithmetic -- not to the exclusion of everyone

10:36:0624 else, but certainly focus there, and that we're

10:36:0825 going to see that reflected over time in

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NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:36:10 1 increased scores.

10:36:12 2 If a school does achieve in the lowest

10:36:14 3 level, then as you see in your material, we've

10:36:16 4 got, as a state, a pretty significant

10:36:20 5 assistance package, because we did learn from

10:36:22 6 the original 158 how we might better assist

10:36:26 7 schools that are struggling to the greatest

10:36:28 8 degree. And we also -- for the Tier 2 schools,

10:36:32 9 whether there's one or whether there's 1,000 of

10:36:3410 those Tier 2 schools, we also learned from the

10:36:3811 first go around, that -- that additional staff

10:36:4212 development, additional training, additional

10:36:4413 support is necessary there as well.

10:36:4814 But the essence of this thing is to

10:36:5215 recognize that, indeed, we do need to find out

10:36:5416 where students are against our Sunshine State

10:36:5817 Standards, good, bad, or indifferent. And as

10:37:0018 we've discussed, sometimes that means bracing

10:37:0219 for things that -- that we don't necessarily

10:37:0420 like to see; but then very importantly, work

10:37:0821 together as a state to figure out how we're

10:37:1022 going to help more children achieve at a higher

10:37:1423 level.

10:37:1624 TREASURER NELSON: To -- from what you've

10:37:1625 said, that's comforting, because were the F-CAT

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10:37:22 1 that was just given standards to apply, you

10:37:28 2 would have, on the basis of the scores, between

10:37:34 3 1,000 and 1,500 schools that would be listed at

10:37:38 4 Level 2 or Level 1, which would be poor

10:37:42 5 performing, or very poor performing schools.

10:37:46 6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Correct.

10:37:48 7 TREASURER NELSON: But let's assume what

10:37:48 8 you've said is correct, which there should be

10:37:50 9 some improvement.

10:37:5210 Now, from a standpoint for the rest of

10:37:5411 the Board of Education, there is a financial

10:38:0012 implication here, not only in the resources

10:38:0213 that would be brought to bear to bring these

10:38:0414 schools up, but in the position articulated by

10:38:1015 the Governor-elect and yourself with regard to

10:38:1216 the vouchers; that if the Legislature approved

10:38:1817 your voucher program, the vouchers are for poor

10:38:2218 performing schools.

10:38:2419 So the question is: Where do you get all

10:38:2620 the money if you're going to have this many

10:38:3021 poor performing schools designated as a result

10:38:3222 of these standards and this F-CAT? Where do

10:38:3423 you get the money to provide for all of those

10:38:3824 vouchers to get those kids that are eligible in

10:38:4225 these humongous number of poor performing

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10:38:46 1 schools? Where does that come from?

10:38:48 2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well -- boy, the

10:38:50 3 whole voucher issue is a -- is a power point

10:38:54 4 presentation in itself.

10:38:56 5 But let me say this: That with or without

10:39:00 6 the discussion of what happens next in terms of

10:39:04 7 the proposals that have been laid on the table

10:39:08 8 during the election cycle, this rule would have

10:39:10 9 come forward exactly as it has, exactly as you

10:39:1410 see it today. This was already being

10:39:1811 formulated well before the election cycle, and

10:39:2212 people's election proposals were ever laid upon

10:39:2413 the table.

10:39:2414 What happens with the schools who are in

10:39:2815 the lowest performing category, or the next

10:39:3416 lowest performing category, should hinge first

10:39:3617 and foremost on our priority to assist those

10:39:3818 schools to be better, regardless of what

10:39:4019 consequences are put into place as -- as a

10:39:4420 result of lack of change.

10:39:4621 Because, remember, as members of the

10:39:5022 State Board, we unanimously approved a system

10:39:5223 that would not only identify low performing

10:39:5424 schools -- we identified 158 -- but also

10:39:5825 approved a system that said that after

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10:40:00 1 three years, if left unchanged, and if those

10:40:02 2 schools were not making the kind of significant

10:40:06 3 change to assist the children in those schools,

10:40:08 4 that we as a State Board could require certain

10:40:10 5 actions to be taken, which could include change

10:40:14 6 in curriculum, change in instructional

10:40:16 7 materials, change in local funding formula for

10:40:18 8 those schools, additional resources from the

10:40:20 9 State level, et cetera.

10:40:2210 We could require a change in personnel, we

10:40:2411 could require that that school be reconstituted

10:40:2812 professionally, and we could require that the

10:40:3013 children in those schools be permitted to --

10:40:3214 with their parents, be able to go to any other

10:40:3615 public school in the district. That's all part

10:40:3816 of the package that exists today.

10:40:4017 What we also then said is, to preclude

10:40:4418 those things from occurring, our first and

10:40:4619 foremost priority should be to work with those

10:40:4820 schools, as we've done; to see to it that

10:40:5021 children, who are the ultimate beneficiary,

10:40:5422 learn to read, write, and calculate

10:40:5623 mathematically at higher levels than they did

10:41:0024 before the thing started.

10:41:0025 That, I think, was the driving force behind

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10:41:04 1 seeing 158 go to zero is the fact that people

10:41:06 2 acknowledged the necessity to change on behalf

10:41:08 3 of boys and girls.

10:41:10 4 So, Commissioner -- and by the way, there's

10:41:14 5 something else very important you need to know

10:41:16 6 about why this rule today -- and I would want

10:41:18 7 to know if I were sitting where you're sitting.

10:41:18 8 You would say, Brogan, you're leaving in two

10:41:20 9 more Board meetings. Why are you bringing this

10:41:2410 today.

10:41:2411 I don't want you to believe that this is a

10:41:2612 drop and run, that Frank Brogan is dropping

10:41:3013 this on your doorstep as he waves good-bye to

10:41:3414 the State Board of Education.

10:41:3415 The only reason that we're bringing this to

10:41:3616 you before the holidays is because we have to

10:41:3817 have these scores approved because the next

10:41:4218 administration of the F-CAT, which is right

10:41:4419 after the holidays, will then hinge on what we

10:41:4620 do here today. It would have been, I think,

10:41:5021 maybe better to bring this at another time.

10:41:5422 Unfortunately, the calendar simply required it

10:41:5623 to occur today.

10:41:5624 So I -- again, I want to put all of our

10:42:0025 resources, all of our energies, all of our

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10:42:04 1 efforts into first recognizing where all of our

10:42:06 2 schools are against standards that we think

10:42:08 3 every child needs to know and be able to

10:42:12 4 perform to be successful.

10:42:14 5 Second, continue to identify those schools

10:42:14 6 that are struggling to the greatest degree.

10:42:16 7 That I think is a big part of what we as State

10:42:20 8 leaders are supposed to do. But you've got to

10:42:22 9 identify them in order to -- to find out who

10:42:2410 needs greater assistance.

10:42:2611 And then, again, very importantly, continue

10:42:3012 to work with all of our schools, but especially

10:42:3213 those schools that are facing the greatest

10:42:3414 challenges. Because there's an economic

10:42:3815 imperative, but there's also the moral

10:42:4016 imperative here that we've all got a stake in

10:42:4417 those children's ability to read, write, and

10:42:4418 count. And we need to be making certain that

10:42:4619 more of them can do just that.

10:42:4820 So I believe, and I'm not saying this in

10:42:5221 Pollyanna fashion, that the system will

10:42:5422 recover; that once again, we will, after

10:42:5623 mapping out strong accountability, strong

10:43:0024 expectations, we will as a state recover and

10:43:0425 make certain that we don't, Commissioner, in

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10:43:06 1 the future, have large numbers of students --

10:43:08 2 of schools that are in -- in the low performing

10:43:12 3 category, that we can do a better job of

10:43:14 4 recognizing where to put our resources and our

10:43:18 5 energy and our need for change. But you've got

10:43:20 6 to have a place to start.

10:43:20 7 And rather than starting with minimal

10:43:22 8 standards as we have as a state in the past,

10:43:26 9 what I think the don't flinch approach is

10:43:2810 saying is, let's set the bar where it really

10:43:3411 ought to be, where we would wish on our best

10:43:3612 day every single student in the state of

10:43:3813 Florida should be achieving to assure them a

10:43:4014 bright future.

10:43:4015 And then let's work to see to it that as

10:43:4416 many of Florida students can get there as we

10:43:4617 possibly can, versus setting the bar very, very

10:43:5018 low, and suggesting that it is easier to do it

10:43:5419 that way, and see more students step over a low

10:43:5820 bar than reach for a high bar.

10:44:0021 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, if I may

10:44:0222 continue.

10:44:0423 I intend to support these standards, and

10:44:0624 I think it is a step in the right direction. I

10:44:1025 want to hasten to remind the Board that we are

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10:44:12 1 still the Board for the next four years until

10:44:16 2 the Constitution causes this Board to

10:44:20 3 evaporate, and it becomes an appointed Board of

10:44:24 4 Education, pursuant to the changes in the

10:44:26 5 Constitution.

10:44:26 6 And some of the implications of these need

10:44:30 7 to be examined by this Board. And the

10:44:36 8 financial, one; the application of vouchers,

10:44:38 9 two, all of these new standards is clearly one.

10:44:4210 Another one is the question of social

10:44:4411 promotion. If you have -- if you have adopted

10:44:4812 a standard, which I think this Board has

10:44:5413 expressed its interest to stop social

10:44:5614 promotion, and if that is clearly mandated

10:45:0215 throughout the state, and yet you have high

10:45:0416 numbers of schools registering as poor

10:45:0817 performing, and, therefore, their students as

10:45:1018 poor performing, and they don't get socially

10:45:1419 promoted, then they stay in the same grade

10:45:1820 along with the new students that move in the

10:45:2021 same grade, and now you have a huge number of

10:45:2222 additional students in the same grade.

10:45:2623 Can you give us some thought on that?

10:45:3024 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.

10:45:3025 And it's doing it in a different way.

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10:45:32 1 There's one thing we've learned about social

10:45:34 2 promotion over time: If you move large numbers

10:45:36 3 of student from grade level to grade level to

10:45:38 4 grade level who you know, not only in your

10:45:40 5 heart, but statistically, are not prepared for

10:45:42 6 the rigor of the next grade level, and expect

10:45:46 7 them to get caught up, you're dreaming in

10:45:48 8 Technicolor. We agree that one of the things

10:45:50 9 we've got to do is eliminate social promotion

10:45:5410 as we've known it.

10:45:5411 I always throw in that caveat,

10:45:5812 Commissioner, because based on an individual

10:46:0013 child and an individual child's need, there may

10:46:0414 always be the need to move that child one grade

10:46:0815 level to another grade level for a variety of

10:46:1016 factors that go beyond just reading, writing,

10:46:1017 and arithmetic. We should never take that

10:46:1418 away.

10:46:1419 But if you remember when we first started

10:46:1620 to identify schools, we identified 158

10:46:1821 critically low performing schools, you would --

10:46:2022 you wouldn't -- but many might be surprised to

10:46:2423 find that a significant number of those schools

10:46:2624 where it was documented that up to two-thirds

10:46:2825 of the children in them couldn't read, write,

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10:46:30 1 or count on grade level, had 100 percent

10:46:32 2 promotion rates, which means those two-thirds

10:46:34 3 of the students in that school were moving

10:46:36 4 grade to grade to grade.

10:46:36 5 Now, having said that, I understand the

10:46:38 6 weight of now saying, wait a minute, that has

10:46:42 7 failed us for -- for more than one generation.

10:46:46 8 We need to end that wholesale practice. But

10:46:48 9 what are we going to do about it?

10:46:5010 And we know this: We know that in the

10:46:5211 past, the only alternative was to say to a

10:46:5612 child, since you didn't get it right the first

10:46:5813 time, Johnny, we're going to put you back in

10:47:0014 the same grade, oft times with exactly the same

10:47:0215 teacher, and we're going to make you do it all

10:47:0616 over again.

10:47:0617 Well, that does two things. One, it

10:47:0818 presumes that they'll get it right this time

10:47:1019 with exactly the same strategies. And I often

10:47:1220 think, if they could have gotten it right, they

10:47:1421 would have got it right the first time with

10:47:1622 those strategies.

10:47:1623 Two, it also leads children to believe that

10:47:2024 once retained, they are doomed to 180 days of

10:47:2425 exactly the same thing. Therefore, the same

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10:47:26 1 thing that social promotion did, which was to

10:47:28 2 give kids the message that it doesn't matter

10:47:30 3 what you do, you're going on to the next grade

10:47:32 4 level, therefore, don't worry about your

10:47:34 5 individual responsibility, the same approach a

10:47:38 6 second time says to children that no matter

10:47:40 7 what you do this time, no matter how hard you

10:47:42 8 work, no matter how you apply yourself, you're

10:47:44 9 going to spend an additional 180 days in

10:47:4610 exactly the same grade level. Which often says

10:47:5011 to Johnny, what's the point. I might as well

10:47:5212 go ahead and do my time a second year through,

10:47:5413 because they'll have to promote me this time.

10:47:5614 I think what people are starting to

10:47:5815 recognize -- and the really good news is that

10:48:0016 people are starting to change their approach to

10:48:0217 this.

10:48:0418 We have -- some districts were beginning to

10:48:0619 use their summer school money, for example, to

10:48:0820 recognize that if you keep a child for

10:48:1021 180 days, and know that they're failing

10:48:1422 throughout the year, that if you get to them

10:48:1623 immediately, for example, if Johnny can't do

10:48:2024 long division in the first four weeks of the

10:48:2225 school year, rather than making a note of it

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10:48:22 1 and trying to correct it in the summer, that

10:48:26 2 use some of that summer school money and

10:48:28 3 provide Johnny after school tutorial program on

10:48:30 4 the spot. Catch him up right there so that he

10:48:34 5 can continue on with everyone else.

10:48:36 6 Say to students what some districts are now

10:48:38 7 doing: We will put you back, but we will do

10:48:40 8 this: If you're willing to put in your time

10:48:42 9 and energy and commitment, and we will put in

10:48:4610 extra time and energy, commitment, as soon as

10:48:4811 you are caught up, Johnny, we will put you back

10:48:4812 in the grade where -- where you left.

10:48:5213 It gives students the ability to know that,

10:48:5414 hey, if I work hard, study hard, play by the

10:48:5615 rules, that I can go back where I started in

10:48:5816 the first place.

10:49:0017 My point in saying all of this is to say

10:49:0218 that as we move away from the incredibly

10:49:0419 expanded use of social promotion and go back to

10:49:0820 seeing to it that children can learn a year's

10:49:1021 worth of knowledge in a year and, therefore,

10:49:1222 move to the next grade level, that for those

10:49:1623 students who are still struggling, we've got to

10:49:1824 start to find new and innovative strategies to

10:49:2025 make certain that they're given a leg up.

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10:49:22 1 One of the questions I got this morning on

10:49:24 2 the information from the F-CAT was diagnostic

10:49:28 3 information. And one of the things we want to

10:49:30 4 do is as we refine the F-CAT and the way the

10:49:34 5 results are distributed is to provide over time

10:49:36 6 more and more diagnostic information so that it

10:49:40 7 is not just a test that compares and contrasts,

10:49:40 8 but a test that will provide teachers and

10:49:42 9 parents and students with more knowledge about

10:49:4410 exactly where that student has strengths and

10:49:4811 weaknesses so that teachers can work to refine

10:49:5012 those strengths and weaknesses over time.

10:49:5213 So all that to say this: Scores are

10:49:5614 relatively easy to set, but the heavy lifting

10:50:0015 of adapting to finding new ways to reach more

10:50:0416 students, I think, began several years ago when

10:50:0617 we started down this road. But we have much to

10:50:1018 do. We have much teacher training and

10:50:1219 retraining that we have to engage in as a

10:50:1420 state. We've got much to do to better educate

10:50:1621 our parents as to what those standards are and

10:50:1822 their role in helping their children acquire

10:50:2223 those standards, much to do in reinstilling the

10:50:2424 individual responsibility in boys and girls

10:50:2625 that they must be actively involved in their

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10:50:28 1 education.

10:50:30 2 Our Legislature in providing the resources

10:50:32 3 that we need to not only work with all

10:50:34 4 students, but especially again help students

10:50:36 5 who are struggling the greatest degree, but we

10:50:40 6 think this accountability system will provide

10:50:42 7 us a greater clarity, a greater focus, and a

10:50:44 8 greater accessibility to that clarity than

10:50:48 9 we've had in a long, long time.

10:50:5010 Should have gone through the power point

10:50:5211 presentation.

10:50:5412 TREASURER NELSON: You're getting very

10:50:5413 close to rivaling the power point.

10:51:0014 Members of the State Board of Education,

10:51:0215 Frank is not going to be here. I just want --

10:51:0416 he will be, of course, upstairs and down the

10:51:0617 hall, and we can continue to call on him as an

10:51:1018 enormous resource, as he is.

10:51:1219 But just let me point out, by the standards

10:51:1420 that we're adopting today, which I support, and

10:51:1821 I am voting for, it has huge budgetary

10:51:2222 implications on us in the future.

10:51:2623 And just on what Frank was addressing, the

10:51:3024 question of social promotion, if there is none,

10:51:3225 and yet these standards are causing so many

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10:51:34 1 more students to be caused -- called and

10:51:38 2 labeled poor performing, and, therefore, they

10:51:42 3 don't meet the grade, you're going to have a

10:51:44 4 huge bulge in the existing grades.

10:51:50 5 May I just make one further comment that I

10:51:56 6 am concerned -- and if you have a comment,

10:51:58 7 Frank, I would appreciate it -- that this

10:52:02 8 particular test in that the student score

10:52:08 9 doesn't reveal what specific skills that the

10:52:1210 student may be deficient in.

10:52:1411 And so is -- is it possible to tweak this

10:52:2012 with a more specific scoring for diagnostic

10:52:2413 purposes?

10:52:2414 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir. That was

10:52:2615 one of the things I alluded to is, as we refine

10:52:2816 this process over time, we're going to find --

10:52:3017 and we should -- more and different ways to

10:52:3418 report scores for more and different approaches

10:52:3819 for diagnostic purposes.

10:52:4220 This, of course, is a first cut, first

10:52:4421 test, first way to report, first cut scores.

10:52:4622 But that is our ultimate goal, is not just to

10:52:5023 use tests for comparison purposes and for

10:52:5224 identifying how collectively students are

10:52:5425 performing in schools and in districts, but we

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10:52:56 1 want to continue to refine the reporting

10:52:58 2 process, Commissioner, so that parents,

10:53:00 3 teachers, and the students themselves will know

10:53:02 4 more and more and more about exactly where they

10:53:06 5 are as individuals, for purposes of creating

10:53:08 6 different strategies and approaches to a system

10:53:10 7 to a higher level.

10:53:12 8 TREASURER NELSON: Thank you, Governor.

10:53:14 9 GOVERNOR CHILES: I -- I think this

10:53:1410 discussion has been beneficial. I will not be

10:53:1811 here after these standards are adopted, and --

10:53:2412 and -- and I think that will be when the tough

10:53:2813 time will come.

10:53:3014 I don't think there's any doubt that --

10:53:3215 that it looks like the people that came up with

10:53:3616 these standards tried to make a determination

10:53:4017 of what kind of scores would be necessary and

10:53:4418 adequate for the students to matriculate in

10:53:5019 Florida schools, and to be qualified for the

10:53:5420 kind of jobs that we know are necessary that

10:54:0021 are out there, and that we know our students

10:54:0422 are not qualified for today. And we also know

10:54:0823 the huge number of remedial students that we

10:54:1024 have in the community colleges and the

10:54:1425 universities that are trying to pursue higher

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10:54:16 1 education.

10:54:18 2 So how do you get from where we are to

10:54:20 3 where we want to go, knowing you do not do that

10:54:24 4 without some problems.

10:54:26 5 And I think coming up with the standards

10:54:28 6 that we think are adequate, I think that

10:54:32 7 decision is much better than if we had taken

10:54:34 8 another little step up, but a step that we know

10:54:38 9 would not have been adequate, and then kind of

10:54:4210 moved from there.

10:54:4411 I'm delighted that Senator Lewis is here

10:54:4612 today.

10:54:4613 And I hope you will convey my best wishes

10:54:5214 to the Educational Accountability Commission,

10:54:5615 and my thanks to them for all of the work that

10:54:5816 they have been doing.

10:54:5817 This Commission has been in existence, what

10:55:0218 is it, all -- it's close to eight --

10:55:0419 SENATOR LEWIS: '91.

10:55:0620 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: '91.

10:55:0621 SENATOR LEWIS: 1991.

10:55:0822 GOVERNOR CHILES: '91. So almost

10:55:0823 eight years, or a portion into the eighth year

10:55:1224 now.

10:55:1225 And we are at this point where we still are

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10:55:16 1 talking about two years from now. And,

10:55:18 2 of course, it was the purpose of the

10:55:20 3 Educational Accountability Commission to put

10:55:24 4 Florida on this track, and we've been doing

10:55:26 5 that, and we've been measuring down that for

10:55:30 6 some eight years.

10:55:32 7 In some ways, I guess I -- I could say I'm

10:55:36 8 delighted that we are where we are now. If --

10:55:38 9 back in '91, I would have thought we could have

10:55:4210 been further along the trail than we would be

10:55:4411 now.

10:55:4412 But I think it's necessary for us to adopt

10:55:4813 these standards. I think it is necessary for

10:55:4814 us to realize -- and I think you're doing that

10:55:5215 in your discussion -- that this will not be

10:55:5416 easy, that there will be some problems. And I

10:55:5817 trust that we will not totally back away from

10:56:0218 the standards, but I think that we will go

10:56:0419 through some problems.

10:56:0420 I think there will be a lot of schools that

10:56:0821 will have difficulty. I think there will be a

10:56:1222 lot of students that would have difficulty,

10:56:1423 because we know that there are an awful lot of

10:56:1624 students that are out there today that are not

10:56:1825 getting what they -- what they should be for

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10:56:22 1 Florida to be able to compete in the job

10:56:24 2 market, and in the higher education that they

10:56:26 3 need.

10:56:28 4 I think this is a step that is very

10:56:30 5 necessary that we take now. I think we need to

10:56:32 6 know that there is much hard work and many

10:56:36 7 steps that we'll have to follow to -- to carry

10:56:38 8 us through this task.

10:56:44 9 Is there a motion?

10:56:4610 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move, sir. And by

10:56:4611 the way, Governor, that would be to move both

10:56:4812 rules, Item 3 --

10:56:5013 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.

10:56:5014 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and Item 4 as a

10:56:5215 package.

10:56:5216 GOVERNOR CHILES: Items 3 and 4 are moved.

10:56:5417 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

10:56:5618 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a second?

10:56:5819 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.

10:56:5820 GOVERNOR CHILES: There is a second.

10:56:5821 Without objection, they are adopted.

10:57:0222 Thank you very much.

10:57:0423 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you all.

10:57:1624 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is Rule 6A-6.014,

10:57:2025 amendment, general requirements for Adult Ed--

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 40

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:57:22 1 for Adult General Education Program.

10:57:24 2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move, Governor.

10:57:24 3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

10:57:26 4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:57:26 5 Without objection, it's approved.

10:57:28 6 MR. PIERSON: Item 6, Rule 6A--

10:57:30 7 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)

10:57:34 8 MR. PIERSON: --10.040, amendment, basic

10:57:34 9 skills requirements for postsecondary

10:57:3610 vocational certificate education.

10:57:3811 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

10:57:4012 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

10:57:4013 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:57:4014 Without objection, it's approved.

10:57:4215 MR. PIERSON: Item 7, Rule 6B-1.006,

10:57:4616 amendment, principals of professional conduct

10:57:4817 for the education profession in Florida.

10:57:5018 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

10:57:5219 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

10:57:5420 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:57:5421 Without objection, Item 7 is approved.

10:57:5822 MR. PIERSON: Item 8, reappointments to the

10:57:5823 Florida Keys Community College District Board

10:58:0224 of Trustees, Emma C. Cates and Howard M. Post,

10:58:0625 expiration date of term, May 31st, 2002.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 41

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:58:08 1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the

10:58:08 2 reappointments.

10:58:10 3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

10:58:10 4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:58:12 5 Without objection, they're approved.

10:58:14 6 MR. PIERSON: Item 9, appointments and

10:58:16 7 reappointments to the Valencia County --

10:58:18 8 Community College District Board of Trustees.

10:58:22 9 Appointees, Laura E. Santos through May 31st,

10:58:2610 2001; Joseph I. Goldstein through May 31st,

10:58:2811 2002.

10:58:3012 Reappointees: MarciaM. Tompkins, May 31st,

10:58:3413 2002; and Galen Miller, May 31st, 2002.

10:58:3814 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, move the

15 appointments and reappointments.

10:58:4016 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

10:58:4017 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:58:4018 Without objection, they're approved.

10:58:4219 MR. PIERSON: Thank you.

20 (The State Board of Education Agenda was

21 concluded.)

22 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 42

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:58:46 1 GOVERNOR CHILES:

10:58:46 2 Administration Commission.

10:58:48 3 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 1 --

10:58:50 4 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)

10:58:52 5 DR. BRADLEY: -- recommend approval of the

10:58:52 6 minutes of the meeting --

7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

10:58:52 8 DR. BRADLEY: -- held --

10:58:54 9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

10:58:5410 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:58:5611 Without objection, the minutes are

10:58:5812 approved.

10:58:5813 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 2, recommend

10:59:0014 approval of the transfer of general revenue

10:59:0215 appropriations for the Department of Children

10:59:0416 and Families.

10:59:0417 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

10:59:0818 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.

10:59:0819 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:59:0820 Without objection, Item 2 is approved.

10:59:1021 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 3, recommend

10:59:1022 approval of the transfer of general revenue

10:59:1423 appropriations for the Agency of Healthcare

10:59:1624 Administration for the adult heart transplant

10:59:2025 program.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 43

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

10:59:20 1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

10:59:22 2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.

10:59:22 3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10:59:24 4 Without objection, Item 3 is approved.

10:59:30 5 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 4 --

10:59:32 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: I'm delighted that Item 3

10:59:32 7 is approved. And I think this will allow heart

10:59:36 8 transplants now. I think this would be, what

10:59:38 9 is it, 20 transplants --

10:59:4010 DR. BRADLEY: Yes, sir.

10:59:4211 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- provide the funding

10:59:4212 for that. Our administration -- or our

10:59:5013 secretary, Marcia Stephens, received a heart

10:59:5414 transplant in June of 1997. I think she's here

10:59:5815 today. If she is --

10:59:5816 DR. BRADLEY: She is here, Governor.

17 Governor.

11:00:0018 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes. Marcie.

11:00:0419 She went back to work part-time in February

11:00:0620 of 1998, and back to work full-time in August

11:00:1021 of 1998. We're -- we're delighted that that's

11:00:1422 worked so well.

11:00:1623 And I think we will be making

11:00:1824 20 transplants available to people that

11:00:2025 wouldn't have had the opportunity without this

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 44

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:00:24 1 approval.

11:00:24 2 So thank you.

11:00:26 3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, the

11:00:26 4 interest -- and I was listening to NPR this

11:00:28 5 morning on the radio, and they pointed out a

11:00:30 6 new problem. Seems like every time you fix

11:00:32 7 one -- and this is a wonderful fix -- you

8 create another one.

11:00:36 9 And they brought up the fact that some

11:00:3610 people are concerned there will be greater

11:00:4011 competition than ever before for available

11:00:4212 organs.

11:00:4213 I think it behooves all of to us getting

11:00:4614 behind and support the organ donor program to

11:00:4815 make certain that whether -- whether you're

11:00:5016 privately funding a transplant, or now through

11:00:5217 insurance publicly funding a transplant, that

11:00:5618 we have transplant opportunities for everybody.

11:00:5819 And this is a perfect example of how we're

11:01:0220 providing greater access.

11:01:0221 Now we've got to make certain that that

11:01:0422 access is -- is available through -- through

11:01:0623 organ donors. So -- and this is a great --

11:01:1224 great change today.

11:01:1225 Thanks.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 45

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:01:14 1 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 4, recommend

11:01:14 2 approval of the transfer of general revenue

11:01:16 3 appropriations for the Department of

11:01:20 4 Juvenile Justice.

11:01:22 5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

11:01:22 6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.

11:01:24 7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:01:24 8 Without objection, Item 4 is approved.

11:01:28 9 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 5, recommend

11:01:2810 approval of the transfer of general revenue

11:01:3011 appropriations for the Department of Legal

11:01:3212 Affairs.

11:01:3213 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move it.

11:01:3414 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

11:01:3415 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:01:3416 Without objection, Item 5 is approved.

11:01:4017 DR. BRADLEY: That concludes the

11:01:4018 Administration Commission agenda.

11:01:4219 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.

20 (The Administration Commission Agenda was

21 concluded.)

22 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION 46

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:01:44 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Land and Water

11:01:48 2 Adjudicatory Commission.

11:01:48 3 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 1, request

11:01:48 4 approval of the minutes of the November 10th,

11:01:50 5 1998, meeting.

11:01:52 6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

11:01:52 7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

11:01:54 8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:01:54 9 Without objection, the minutes are

11:01:5610 approved.

11:01:5811 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 2 is request

11:02:0012 authorization to enter the amended draft final

11:02:0413 order adopting the settlement agreement and the

11:02:0614 recommended order.

11:02:0615 We have a -- the General Counsel for the

11:02:1016 Department of Community Affairs, Shaw Stiller,

11:02:1217 who would like to say a couple words.

11:02:1618 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.

11:02:2019 MR. STILLER: Good morning,

11:02:2020 Governor Chiles, and other members of this

11:02:2221 honorable Commission.

11:02:2422 I'm Shaw Stiller, Assistant General Counsel

11:02:2623 with the Department of Community Affairs.

11:02:2824 Before you today for consideration and

11:02:3025 approval is a settlement agreement in the case

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION 47

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:02:34 1 styled Department of Community Affairs versus

11:02:36 2 Charlotte County. That case involved some

11:02:38 3 preservation and protection measures for bald

11:02:40 4 eagle habitat.

11:02:42 5 We have worked out a settlement agreement

11:02:44 6 that has been signed by the Department, the

11:02:46 7 County, and the developer. I just want to

11:02:48 8 assure the Commission that the Department

11:02:48 9 remains committed to the preservation of

11:02:5210 habitat. And to that end, wants to provide

11:02:5411 assurance to the Commission, number one, that

11:02:5612 the conservation easements contemplated in the

11:03:0013 agreement will be recorded very shortly.

11:03:0214 In fact, they'll be rendered to the Department

11:03:0615 within 90 days and recorded.

11:03:0616 And secondly, that the management plan that

11:03:0817 will preserve and increase the habitat value of

11:03:1218 the 50 acres or so that are being provided

11:03:1419 pursuant to the conservation easements will

11:03:1820 also be timely prepared and implemented.

11:03:2021 I'm here if the Commission has any

11:03:2222 questions.

11:03:2423 GOVERNOR CHILES: Questions.

11:03:2424 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: One

11:03:2425 question, if I can.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION 48

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:03:26 1 I understand the developer is in the

11:03:26 2 process of selling this property?

3 MR. STILLER: That is correct, Attorney

11:03:30 4 General Butterworth. In fact, I'm informed

11:03:30 5 that the closing is scheduled for tomorrow.

11:03:32 6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Now, how are

11:03:34 7 we going to be assured that what we're doing

11:03:38 8 here is going to actually be implemented, if

11:03:40 9 you're not going to file anything for another

11:03:4210 90 days?

11:03:4411 MR. STILLER: Well, there are several

11:03:4412 provisions in the settlement agreement that

11:03:4613 assure that will happen. First, we have had

11:03:4814 discussions with the developer, and have been

11:03:5015 assured that the new purchaser is aware of this

11:03:5416 litigation and the settlement agreement.

11:03:5617 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Will the new

11:03:5618 purchaser also sign on with this, will he sign

11:04:0019 on with what's going on here today.

20 MR. STILLER: I -- he is not a party to

11:04:0221 this settlement agreement, but has been made

11:04:0622 aware of it. And importantly, pursuant to the

11:04:0823 settlement agreement, no development can take

11:04:1024 place on the 67-acre parcel that was the

11:04:1225 subject of this appeal. No development can

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION 49

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:04:14 1 occur there until the conservation easements

11:04:16 2 are recorded.

11:04:18 3 So there's a great inspiration for the

11:04:20 4 developer to assist in getting these things

11:04:22 5 timely recorded.

11:04:24 6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you.

11:04:28 7 MR. STILLER: If there are no further

11:04:30 8 questions --

11:04:30 9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

11:04:3210 MR. STILLER: Thank you.

11:04:3211 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?

11:04:3612 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.

11:04:3613 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:04:3815 Without objection, it's approved.

11:04:4016 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 3, request

11:04:4017 authorization to enter the amended draft final

11:04:4418 order, accepting review, affirming the South

11:04:4619 Florida Water Management District's final order

11:04:4820 as modified by the stipulations, and directing

11:04:5221 the District to initiate rulemaking.

11:04:5822 We don't have any speakers.

11:05:0023 GOVERNOR CHILES: You don't have any

11:05:0024 speakers. All right.

11:05:0225 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION 50

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:05:02 1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

11:05:02 2 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and

11:05:04 3 seconded.

11:05:04 4 Without objection, it's approved.

11:05:06 5 DR. BRADLEY: That concludes --

11:05:06 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

7 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory

8 Commission Agenda was concluded.)

9 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION 51

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Marine Fisheries

2 Commission.

3 DR. NELSON: Good morning.

11:05:16 4 Item A on the agenda would be June 24th,

11:05:16 5 July 14th, and 28th --

11:05:18 6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

7 DR. NELSON: -- minutes.

11:05:20 8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

11:05:2010 DR. NELSON: Item B on the agenda, our

11 amendments --

12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Wait.

11:05:2213 DR. NELSON: -- to the snook management --

11:05:2414 GOVERNOR CHILES: Let's -- let's get the

11:05:2415 minutes approved.

11:05:2616 Without objection, the minutes are

11:05:2817 approved.

11:05:3018 DR. NELSON: Excuse me, sir.

19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes sir.

20 DR. NELSON: Item B on the agenda would be

11:05:3021 an amendment to the slot limit, possession

11:05:3222 limits on the snook management plan.

11:05:3423 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

11:05:3624 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

11:05:3625 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION 52

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:05:38 1 Without objection, that's approved.

11:05:40 2 DR. NELSON: Item C on the agenda is an

11:05:42 3 amendment to the mullet regulations continuing

11:05:44 4 for the year the use of an experimental gear.

11:05:48 5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

11:05:48 6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

11:05:48 7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:05:50 8 Without objection, that's approved.

11:05:52 9 DR. NELSON: Item D are amendments to our

11:05:5410 State refish regulations to reflect recent

11:05:5411 changes in Federal regulations.

11:05:5812 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

11:05:5813 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

11:06:0014 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:06:0015 Without objection, it's approved.

11:06:0216 DR. NELSON: And Item E on the agenda, our

11:06:0417 amendments to our amberjack regulations, again

11:06:0618 to reflect recent changes to Federal

11:06:0819 regulations.

11:06:1020 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

11:06:1221 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.

11:06:1222 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:06:1423 Without objection, that's approved.

11:06:1424 DR. NELSON: Thank you.

11:06:1625 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I also --

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION 53

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:06:16 1 I believe, Russell, this is the last appearance

11:06:18 2 of your group before the Cabinet before the

11:06:22 3 change takes place in -- with Game and Fish?

11:06:26 4 DR. NELSON: Commissioner Brogan, I -- this

11:06:26 5 will be the last appearance of the Commission

11:06:28 6 before this -- this sitting Cabinet. And I

11:06:32 7 would certainly like to take the opportunity to

11:06:34 8 thank Governor Chiles, Secretary Mortham,

11:06:36 9 yourself for all the support, time that you and

11:06:3810 your staffs have given to some of these issues.

11:06:4211 But we will probably be back with a few

11:06:4212 items during the spring before the new

11:06:4613 Commission begins its function in July 1.

11:06:4814 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you.

11:06:4815 DR. NELSON: Thank you.

11:06:5016 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

17 (The Marine Fisheries Commission Agenda was

18 concluded.)

19 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 54

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:06:52 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Board of Trustees.

11:06:56 2 MR. GREEN: Item 1, minutes of the

11:06:56 3 October 13th meeting.

11:06:58 4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes.

11:06:58 5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

11:07:00 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:07:00 7 Without objection, the minutes are

11:07:02 8 approved.

11:07:02 9 MR. GREEN: Item 2, consideration of an

11:07:0410 application for a five-year sovereignty

11:07:0811 submerged land management agreement.

11:07:1012 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

11:07:1013 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

11:07:1214 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 3, recommend

11:07:1215 deferral --

11:07:1216 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:07:1417 Without objection, Item 2 is approved.

11:07:1618 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 3, recommend

11:07:1819 deferral.

11:07:2020 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move deferral,

11:07:2021 Governor.

11:07:2022 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

11:07:2223 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:07:2224 Without objection, Item 3 is deferred --

11:07:2625 Substitute Item 3.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 55

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:07:26 1 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 4, recommend

11:07:28 2 deferral.

11:07:28 3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move deferral.

11:07:32 4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

11:07:32 5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:07:34 6 Without objection, Substitute Item 4 is

11:07:36 7 deferred.

8 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal

9 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)

10 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT 56

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:07:40 1 MR. GREEN: Southwest Florida Water

11:07:40 2 Management --

11:07:42 3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Southwest Florida

4 Management -- Water Management District.

11:07:44 5 MR. GREEN: Karen West.

11:07:48 6 MS. WEST: Good morning.

11:07:50 7 I'm Karen West. I'm an attorney with the

11:07:52 8 Southwest Florida Water Management District.

11:07:52 9 I'm here on Substitute Item 1,

11:07:5610 consideration of an application for a private

11:07:5811 easement, a five-year sovereignty submerged

11:08:0012 land lease, and a consent of use.

11:08:0213 We have the director of our Venice service

11:08:0614 office and the applicant are here if you have

11:08:0815 any questions.

11:08:1416 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I have some

11:08:1417 comments, Governor.

11:08:1818 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.

11:08:2219 TREASURER NELSON: What I'm -- I want to

11:08:2420 talk a bit about philosophy, and how I think

11:08:3021 the Board of Trustees have not been consulted

11:08:3422 as they should be.

11:08:3623 I think this is the type of project that

11:08:3824 should automatically come before the Trustees.

11:08:4625 I'm concerned about this, because it seems

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT 57

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:08:48 1 that the Water Management District seemed to be

11:08:52 2 unaware of that until it was pointed out by the

11:08:56 3 Save the Manatee Club.

11:09:00 4 So my comments are -- are being pointed to

11:09:04 5 DEP, but in consultation with the

11:09:10 6 Water Management District.

11:09:14 7 This ought to be an opportunity to

11:09:16 8 encourage heightened awareness by the

11:09:20 9 Water Management Districts concerning the role

11:09:2210 of the Trustees. It's necessary to bring items

11:09:2811 like this to the Trustees consistently,

11:09:3012 especially when projects that have such a large

11:09:3413 impact on a water body, like the Manatee River,

11:09:4014 portions of which are designated for protection

11:09:4215 under the Florida Manatee Sanctuary Act.

11:09:4816 And in my opinion, the Water Management

11:09:5217 District should know that in pertinent part,

11:09:5618 Rule 18-21 states that the delegations of

11:10:0219 authority regarding sovereign submerged lands

11:10:0420 are not the delegations of authority -- of

11:10:1021 sovereign submerged lands are not applicable

11:10:1222 where -- and the quote is: Such application is

11:10:1623 reasonably expected to result in heightened

11:10:1824 public concern because of the potential effect

11:10:2225 on the environment, natural resources, or

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT 58

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:10:28 1 controversial nature or location. End of

11:10:32 2 quote. And that's Rule 18-21.

11:10:36 3 So in short, if this project is so large

11:10:40 4 that it might be visible from an airplane, and

11:10:46 5 this project also impacts manatees, and

11:10:50 6 possibly the Manatee River, it should have been

11:10:54 7 readily apparent to the Water Management

11:10:58 8 District that this matter must be brought

11:11:00 9 before the Trustees so that it can be aired in

11:11:0410 a public forum that the Constitution envisions

11:11:0811 setting up the Trustees of the Internal

11:11:1012 Improvement Trust Fund.

11:11:1413 And so I want to send this as a message

11:11:1814 from this member of the Trustees to all the

11:11:2015 Water Management Districts to join with the

11:11:2616 Department of Environmental Protection, and all

11:11:2617 of us take this opportunity to participate

11:11:3018 fully and cooperatively as a team looking at

11:11:3419 the concerns that have been raised by the Save

11:11:4020 the Manatee Club.

11:11:4021 We must all work together in a spirit of

11:11:4422 cooperation while looking for ways to improve

11:11:4823 the permitting process.

11:11:5024 And by improving that process, we must

11:11:5425 ensure that the environment is protected, and

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT 59

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

11:11:56 1 that property rights are protected as well, and

11:12:02 2 seek the appropriate balance between the two.

11:12:06 3 But when we do this, we don't want to do it at

11:12:10 4 the expense of our natural resources, or any

11:12:12 5 way of undermining the integrity of the public

11:12:16 6 trust.

11:12:16 7 So, Governor, I wanted to make that

11:12:18 8 statement for the record.

11:12:22 9 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.

11:12:2210 TREASURER NELSON: And I will be watching

11:12:2211 all of these future Water Management District

11:12:2612 applications with that in mind.

11:12:3013 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.

11:12:3214 Is there a motion?

11:12:3415 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move it.

11:12:3616 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.

11:12:3617 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11:12:3818 Without objection, it's approved.

11:12:4219 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I object.

11:12:4220 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Note that the

11:12:4421 Attorney General is a no vote.

11:12:4822 Without that, it's approved.

23 (The Southwest Florida Water Management

24 District Agenda was concluded.)

25 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT 60

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

1 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at

2 11:13 a.m.)

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

NOVEMBER 24, 1998

1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

4 STATE OF FLORIDA:

5 COUNTY OF LEON:

6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that

7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the

8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand

9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing

10 pages numbered 1 through 60 are a true and correct

11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.

12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,

13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,

14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,

15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.

16 DATED THIS 8th day of December, 1998.

19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR

100 Salem Court

20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301

850/878-2221

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.