T H E C A B I N E T

S T A T E O F F L O R I D A

Representing:

STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION

DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE

DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES

DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION

BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE

INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND

The above agencies came to be heard before

THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles

presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,

The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,

December 8, 1998, commencing at approximately

10:02 a.m.

Reported by:

LAURIE L. GILBERT

Registered Professional Reporter

Certified Court Reporter

Certified Realtime Reporter

Notary Public in and for

the State of Florida at Large

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

100 SALEM COURT

TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301

850/878-2221

2

APPEARANCES:

Representing the Florida Cabinet:

LAWTON CHILES

Governor

BOB CRAWFORD

Commissioner of Agriculture

BOB MILLIGAN

Comptroller

SANDRA B. MORTHAM

Secretary of State

BOB BUTTERWORTH

Attorney General

BILL NELSON

Treasurer

FRANK T. BROGAN

Commissioner of Education

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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

3

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 I N D E X

2 ITEM ACTION PAGE

3 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:

(Presented by Tom Herndon,

4 Executive Director)

5 1 Approved 6

2 Approved 6

6 3 Approved 7

4 Approved 7

7 5 Approved 8

6 Approved 8

8 7 Deferred 9

8 Approved 9

9 9 A Approved 9

9 B Deferred 9

10

DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:

11 (Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,

Director)

12

1 Approved 10

13 2 Approved 10

3 Approved 11

14 4 Approved 11

5 Approved 12

15

DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES:

16 (Presented by Fred O. Dickinson, III,

Executive Director)

17

1 Approved 13

18 2 Approved 13

3 Approved 14

19

DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT:

20 (Presented by James T. Moore,

Executive Director)

21

1 Approved 15

22 2 Approved 16

23

24

25

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

4

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 I N D E X

(Continued)

2

ITEM ACTION PAGE

3

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:

4 (Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,

Deputy Commissioner)

5

1 Approved 17

6 2 Approved 17

3 Approved 17

7 4 Approved 18

5 Approved 18

8 6 Approved 18

7 Approved 19

9 8 Approved 19

9 Approved 19

10 10 Approved 20

11 Approved 20

11 12 Approved 20

13 Approved 40

12

ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:

13 (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,

Secretary)

14

1 Approved 49

15 2 Approved 49

3 Approved 50

16 4 Approved 50

5 Approved 50

17 6 Approved 100

18

19

20

21

22

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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

5

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 I N D E X

(Continued)

2

ITEM ACTION PAGE

3

BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE

4 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT

TRUST FUND:

5 (Presented Kirby B. Green, III,

Secretary)

6

1 Approved 101

7 2 Approved 101

3 Approved 102

8 4 Approved 103

Substitute 5 Approved 103

9 6 Approved 103

Substitute 7 Approved 103

10 Substitute 8 Approved 104

Substitute 9 Approved 104

11 Substitute 10 Approved 104

11 Approved 105

12 Substitute 12 Approved 105

13 Approved 107

13 14 Approved 107

Substitute 15 Approved 155

14 16 Approved 107

17 Approved 108

15 Substitute 18 Approved 157

Substitute 19 Approved 108

16 20 Approved 115

Substitute 21 Approved 125

17 22 Approved 130

23 Approved 134

18 24 Approved 139

Substitute 25 Deferred 140

19 Substitute 26 Approved 146

20 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 159

21 *

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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 6

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:24 a.m.)

3 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of

4 Administration.

5 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 1 on the agenda

6 this morning is approval of the minutes of the

7 meeting held on November 24th, 1998.

8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.

9 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll second.

10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11 Without objection, the minutes are

12 approved.

13 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 2 is approval of

14 a fiscal sufficiency of an issue not exceeding

15 350 million dollars, State of Florida full

16 faith and credit Department of Transportation

17 right-of-way acquisition and bridge

18 construction bonds.

19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval of

20 Item 2.

21 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll second.

22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

23 Without objection, Item 2 is approved.

24 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 3 is approval of

25 a resolution approving the fiscal sufficiency

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 7

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 of an item not exceeding 130 million dollar

2 Department of Transportation turnpike revenue

3 bonds.

4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.

5 TREASURER NELSON: And I second.

6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

7 Without objection, Item 3 is approved.

8 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 4 is approval of

9 a fiscal determination of an amount not

10 exceeding fourteen million five hundred

11 thousand dollar tax exempt, and $500,000

12 taxable Florida Housing Finance Corporation

13 revenue bonds for Whistler's Cove Apartments

14 project.

15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.

16 TREASURER NELSON: Second.

17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

18 Without objection, that's approved.

19 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 5 is approval of

20 a fiscal determination of an amount not

21 exceeding eleven million eight hundred and

22 eighty thousand dollar tax exempt, and $200,000

23 taxable Florida Housing Finance Corporation

24 bonds for the Westwood (sic) Apartments

25 project.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 8

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.

2 TREASURER NELSON: Second.

3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

4 Without objection, that's approved.

5 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 6 is approval of

6 a fiscal determination of an amount not

7 exceeding ten million seven hundred and

8 twenty-five thousand dollar Florida Housing

9 Finance Corporation housing revenue bonds for

10 the Buchanan Bay Apartments project.

11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move it.

12 TREASURER NELSON: Second.

13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

14 Without objection, it's approved.

15 MR. HERNDON: Governor, with your

16 permission, members of the Cabinet -- or the

17 Board, I'd like to defer Item 7 and Item 9 B,

18 they're both related to the corporate

19 governance report and proxy voting items, until

20 the next meeting.

21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move deferral of

22 Item 7 and Item 9--

23 MR. HERNDON: --B.

24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: --B.

25 TREASURER NELSON: Second.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 9

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

2 Without objection, it is approved.

3 MR. HERNDON: Item number 8 is an

4 informational item for appointment of an

5 Investment Advisory Council from

6 General Milligan's office, Ms. Randi Grant, who

7 is a CPA from Miami.

8 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll move that.

9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'll second it.

10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11 Without objection, it's approved.

12 MR. HERNDON: And finally, Item Number 9 A.

13 is the interim report by the Executive Director

14 on the investment performance and fund balance

15 analysis for the month of October 1998.

16 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll move that.

17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.

18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

19 Without objection, that's approved.

20 MR. HERNDON: That completes the agenda.

21 Thank you.

22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

23 (The State Board of Administration Agenda

24 was concluded.)

25 *

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 10

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Division of Bond Finance.

2 MR. WATKINS: Good morning.

3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.

4 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 1 is approval of

5 the minutes of the November 10 meeting.

6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

9 Without objection, the minutes are

10 approved.

11 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 2 is adoption of

12 a resolution restating the turnpike bond

13 resolution --

14 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)

15 MR. WATKINS: -- and authorizing the

16 competitive sale of up to a hundred and thirty

17 million dollars in turnpike revenue bonds.

18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

20 Without objection, that's approved.

21 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 3 is a resolution

22 authorizing the competitive sale of up to three

23 hundred and fifty million dollars of

24 right-of-way acquisition and bridge

25 construction bonds for the Department of

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 11

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 Transportation.

2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.

3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.

4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

5 Without objection, that's approved.

6 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 4 is a resolution

7 authorizing the issuance of up to seventy-four

8 million eighty-five thousand dollars of capital

9 outlay bonds for education.

10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.

12 Second.

13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

14 Without objection, that's approved.

15 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 5 is a resol--

16 report of award of twenty-six million five

17 hundred twenty-five thousand dollars, housing

18 facility revenue bonds for the Board of Regents

19 for a dormitory for Florida International

20 University.

21 The bonds were awarded to the low bidder at

22 a true interest cost rate of 4.86 percent.

23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good rate.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 12

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Great rate.

2 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's a great rate.

3 Without objection, it's approved.

4 MR. WATKINS: Thank you very much.

5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

6 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was

7 concluded.)

8 *

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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES 13

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of

2 Highway Safety.

3 MR. DICKINSON: Governor, Item 1 is

4 approval of minutes from the October 27, 1998,

5 Cabinet meeting.

6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

9 Without objection, they're approved.

10 MR. DICKINSON: Item 2 is to request

11 approval of our quarterly report for the period

12 ending September 1998.

13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

15 Without objection, that's approved.

16 MR. DICKINSON: And Item 3 is submission of

17 two new plates, the Everglades River of Grass

18 license plate, and the Florida Sheriffs Youth

19 Ranch license plate.

20 The Everglades River of Grass money would

21 go towards preservation of the Everglades, as

22 well as the abatement of water pollution.

23 And the Florida Sheriffs Youth Ranches go

24 to the operation of the Florida Sheriffs Youth

25 Ranch.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES 14

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 This'll be 42 tags we now have in our

2 inventory, and a few more to come this year.

3 And we've had four or five already submitted

4 for next year.

5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?

6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move it.

7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.

8 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and

9 seconded.

10 Without objection, it's approved.

11 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you, Governor --

12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

13 MR. DICKINSON: -- Cabinet.

14 (The Department of Highway Safety and Motor

15 Vehicles Agenda was concluded.)

16 *

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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 15

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Department of Law

2 Enforcement.

3 MR. MOORE: Item 1, Governor, are the

4 minutes of the October 27 Cabinet meeting.

5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.

7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

8 Without objection, the minutes are

9 approved.

10 MR. MOORE: Item 2 requests your approval

11 to initiate a rulemaking process consistent

12 with the guidelines that you provided to

13 agencies under your control. The proposed

14 rules before you here today are principally

15 housekeeping in nature, conforming our rules to

16 recently passed statutes and organizational

17 changes.

18 Governor, upon your approval for us to

19 initiate this rulemaking, we will publish them

20 in January of '99; hold the requested public

21 hearings that need to be held; and will bring a

22 final package back to the Governor and the

23 Cabinet around the end of spring of '99 for

24 ratification and approval.

25 I'd recommend that we move these en masse,

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 16

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 and that you approve the rulemaking process.

2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Are you getting rid of

3 any rules --

4 MR. MOORE: Yes, sir, we are. A lot of

5 them, because they're now embodied in the

6 statute. So the bulk of what you have before

7 you are repealing the rules.

8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So move.

9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11 Without objection, it's approved.

12 MR. MOORE: Thank you, sir.

13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.

14 (The Florida Department of Law Enforcement

15 Agenda was concluded.)

16 *

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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 17

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of Education.

2 MR. PIERSON: Item 1 is minutes of the

3 meeting held on October 22nd, 1998.

4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move, Governor.

5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

7 Without objection, the minutes are

8 approved.

9 MR. PIERSON: Item 2, 1999 to 2000 adult

10 fee schedule.

11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.

13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

14 Without objection, that's approved.

15 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is 1999 to 2000

16 student fee schedule.

17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval,

18 Governor.

19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.

21 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)

22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

23 Without objection, that's approved.

24 MR. PIERSON: Item 4 is Broward Community

25 College request for establishment of a special

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 18

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 purpose center in Pembroke Pines.

2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the item.

3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

5 Without objection, it's approved.

6 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is the ninth

7 supplemental authorizing resolution authorizing

8 the issuance of not exceeding seventy-four

9 million eighty-five thousand dollars, State of

10 Florida, State Board of Education capital

11 outlay bonds.

12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

15 Without objection, that's approved.

16 MR. PIERSON: Item 6, amendment to master

17 lease agreement between the State Board of

18 Education and Shands Teaching Hospital and

19 Clinics, Incorporated.

20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

23 Without objection, Item 6 is approved.

24 MR. PIERSON: Item 7, Rule 6A-14.0734,

25 amendment bidding requirements as amended.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 19

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

4 Without objection, Item 7 is approved.

5 MR. PIERSON: Item 8, rule amendments,

6 Chapter 6C-14, administration of construction

7 program, State University System.

8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

11 Item 8 is, without objection, approved.

12 MR. PIERSON: Item 9, repeal of Rule

13 Chapter 6C-18, proposed new rule administration

14 of purchasing program.

15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.

16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

18 Without objection, that's approved.

19 MR. PIERSON: Item 10, appointment to the

20 State Board of Community Colleges,

21 James P. Kirby, expiration date of term,

22 September 30th, 1999.

23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the appointment.

24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 20

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 Without objection, that's approved.

2 MR. PIERSON: Item 11, appointment to the

3 North Florida Community College District Board

4 of Trustees, Clyde R. Payne, expiration date of

5 term, May 31st, 2001.

6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the appointment.

7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

9 Without objection, it's approved.

10 MR. PIERSON: Item 12, appointment to the

11 Education Practice -- Practices Commission,

12 Renier Diaz de la Portilla, September 30th,

13 1999.

14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move it.

15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

17 Without objection, it's approved.

18 MR. PIERSON: Item 13 is a good cause item,

19 appeal the charter school termination,

20 Stratford Educational Institute versus

21 Volusia County School Board.

22 The State Board of Education considers

23 appeals of denials of charter school

24 applications pursuant to 96-186, Laws of

25 Florida.

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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 21

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 As prescribed by law, Florida school boards

2 are given authority to grant approval to

3 applicants who wish to operate charter schools

4 within a district.

5 Further provision of the law allows an

6 applicant who has been denied a charter the

7 right to appeal the School Board's decision in

8 the State Board of Education.

9 Based on the written record and oral

10 argument presented at this meeting, the

11 State Board must vote to recommend acceptance

12 or rejection of the appeal to the School Board.

13 The vote requires a simple majority of the

14 members, and by law, is not subject to the

15 provisions of the Administrative Procedures

16 Act.

17 The rule governing the appeal process was

18 unanimously adopted by the Cabinet sitting as

19 the State Board of Education on December 10th,

20 1996. It very clearly states how this hearing

21 must proceed, and it specifies the following

22 limitations which must be respected by the

23 applicant, the District School Board, and the

24 representatives.

25 The Notice of Appeal must be based on

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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 22

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 errors the applicant charges the School Board

2 made in its decision to deny the charter.

3 The written arguments submitted by the

4 applicant to the State Board is limited to

5 discussion of those errors. The record of this

6 proceeding is limited to the written arguments,

7 the charter school application itself, and

8 transcripts of meetings before the District

9 School Board.

10 At this hearing, representatives of each

11 party may give oral argument. Oral argument is

12 limited to a summary of the written arguments

13 previously submitted to the State Board. Each

14 side is allocated 10 minutes to present

15 summary.

16 After the summaries are presented, a vote

17 will be taken, and a written recommendation of

18 the vote will be returned to the District

19 School Board.

20 Representing the Stratford Educational

21 Institute, we have Dr. Joseph Buczek.

22 GOVERNOR CHILES: What's the time

23 limitation on this?

24 MR. PIERSON: Ten minutes, sir.

25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Ten minutes?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 23

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 Thank you.

2 MR. BUCZEK: Governor, members of the

3 Cabinet, the charter school literature is

4 replete with cases of abuse of authority,

5 domination, and abuse of power of office. This

6 school closing is most clearly an abuse of

7 power of administrative office clearly to

8 eliminate competition with the public school

9 district.

10 The point is that the District did not have

11 cause in closing the Stratford Educational

12 Institute. By -- by closing it without cause,

13 they deprived the people of Florida their right

14 to school choice.

15 We have answered all of the District's

16 objections, and there should be no problem

17 reopening the school in January. It seems that

18 we are being held to a higher standard than the

19 other public schools are. And by -- by

20 statute 220.056, charter schools are public

21 schools. They are recognized as public

22 schools.

23 My talks with people in the District have

24 uncovered that it takes five years for the

25 District to open a school. We have opened a

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 24

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 school in one month.

2 If I may, I would like to say a few words

3 about what our school was.

4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, could I --

5 I'm sorry, Mr. --

6 MR. BUCZEK: Yes.

7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- Buczek, could I

8 just interrupt for a second?

9 I -- sort of point of technicality here,

10 Mr. Buczek.

11 MR. BUCZEK: Certainly.

12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The fact that it's --

13 it's very important in the 10 minutes allotted,

14 to both sides, that there have been a list of

15 things that the School District is concerned

16 about, and your position that you have

17 accommodated all of those things.

18 I'm not telling you what to do in your

19 presentation, but we have two problems here.

20 One is a limited time --

21 MR. BUCZEK: Yes.

22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and the other is

23 that the fact it's important that we, as

24 members of the State Board understand the

25 technical aspects of this, versus the general

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 25

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 aspects of this, because that's the way the

2 process is laid out.

3 So in the limited time that you have, it's

4 very important that you ultimately get to, and

5 cover the distinction between what the Board is

6 suggesting is lacking, and what you are

7 suggesting is not lacking.

8 MR. BUCZEK: Yes.

9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you.

10 Thank you, Governor.

11 MR. BUCZEK: Fundamentally, the Board has

12 stated that they closed our school because it

13 was unsafe. Our school only had 106 students.

14 And we had seven teachers, we had three guards

15 going around and watching the students. Our

16 school was absolutely safe.

17 There were -- there were -- there was

18 smoking. However, we realize that they have

19 smoking -- kids smoking in their Volusia

20 schools. This is not a reason to close a

21 school for.

22 Our school was safe, we had no problem, our

23 teachers were all certified according to their

24 standards. We realize that they have a system.

25 Anybody with a bachelor's degree can come into

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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 26

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 a school and apply for certification. While

2 the certification is working, the teacher can

3 work.

4 These teachers were all fingerprinted, they

5 were all drug tested, and any differences we

6 would have with the District could certainly

7 have been reconciled. The District was not

8 willing to work with us.

9 We have spent one-and-a-half years

10 following the District's orders on how they

11 wanted our charter school application to be,

12 with countless multiple interviews before more

13 than 26 different managers and department

14 heads. We followed the District's rules. We

15 were happy to.

16 They are stating that we did not follow the

17 District rules. They -- rather than offer us

18 assistance with any problems that occur, they

19 chose to close us down. They ought to have had

20 forbearance or endurance with us. We were a

21 new school. By their own admission, it takes

22 them five years to open a school.

23 Within three days, they had sent a -- a

24 battery of directors to overview us -- who came

25 in with pads to -- not to help us, but to

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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 27

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 criticize us. Dr. Brennan, Director of Super--

2 of Personnel; Dr. Chris Caldwell, Assistant

3 Superintendent of Curriculum; William Kelly,

4 Finance Director; Linda Link, the Special

5 Education Director. They all came in to

6 criticize us. These people came in smearing

7 us. We were insulted. We had a grand school,

8 and -- and we -- we know that we were not

9 treated properly by this District.

10 When -- we did A, B, C; they wanted D, E,

11 F. When we finished D, E, F, they -- they

12 wanted F -- G, H, I. And there is no end to

13 this. They are not willing to settle.

14 I have talked with Tim Huth last week. I

15 said, let us sit down and try to resolve this.

16 They choose to bring five people here to oppose

17 our -- our small school, and this costs them a

18 considerable sum. The Superintendent, everyone

19 is here. But they will not talk and reopen

20 this school because obviously they are opposing

21 charter schools.

22 Charter schools are -- were established by

23 the President signing the Educate America Act

24 to help the -- alleviate the difficult problem

25 of education in the public schools. We are

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1 from the community. Our people have absolutely

2 been deprived of school choice.

3 We have 106 parents that want to send their

4 students -- they state that this is their last

5 chance, and we are not going to stand by and

6 let this happen.

7 There is a thing called school choice, and

8 by law, people want to send their students to

9 our school, and they were thrown out of our

10 school, sent to the District. A lot of our

11 special education students were thrown out of

12 the District because they couldn't deal with

13 them. We dealt with them. We have a means of

14 dealing with these people, these -- these

15 students, and we will rehabilitate them.

16 They're all nice kids, and we want to help

17 them. There is a thing called school choice

18 that has treated these students unfairly. We

19 have been treated unfairly.

20 We have discipline problems, but they have

21 them in the Volusia schools far worse than

22 ours. They've had people with starter pistols

23 pointing them at students' heads. They have

24 had people -- 12 of their students were

25 arrested last week for drug pushing. We

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DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 haven't had these problems.

2 They are trying to say our school is

3 unsafe. Their schools are more unsafe than

4 ours. We're not concerned about that. We are

5 concerned about one item that we work together

6 to try to reconcile the problems and make the

7 education in Florida the -- the best in the

8 country. And we can do it.

9 We are from a community. We have great

10 career experience. And we can help the

11 education system in Florida by the development

12 of innovative and unique methods.

13 We respectfully request the Governor and

14 members of the Cabinet to understand that we

15 are a charter school composed of competent

16 educators. We -- we have Dr. Stewart Welch,

17 who has been teaching principals for 25 years

18 to become superintendents. I myself am a

19 40-year veteran of the career education

20 training in private schools.

21 With a valuable educational -- education

22 programs that will help students graduate, we

23 want to help the people in -- in Florida, the

24 students graduate, and to be somebody. We hope

25 to join into a partnership with the Volusia

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1 school system to apply our hard earned career

2 experience to the difficult problem of helping

3 elevate the academic level of our youth so that

4 the state of Florida can show the world that

5 they are leaders in educating our young people,

6 and that Florida is truly the educated --

7 education state.

8 We have been treated unfairly, and look to

9 this tribunal to reopen our school.

10 Thank you.

11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

12 Are there any questions?

13 Thank you, sir.

14 MR. PIERSON: Representing the

15 Volusia County School Board is attorney

16 Richard Graham.

17 MR. GRAHAM: Governor Chiles, members of

18 the Cabinet, my name is Richard Graham. I'm

19 the attorney for the Volusia County

20 School Board.

21 With me today is Mrs. Judy Conte, Board

22 member and former chairman; Bill Hall, who's

23 the Superintendent of schools; Tim Huth, who is

24 Deputy Superintendent, and who observed more

25 personally than anyone else the operation of

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1 the Stratford Educational Institution; and

2 Rich Kizma, who is chief counsel for the

3 School District.

4 I'd like to correct one introductory remark

5 that was made when this case was called. It

6 was -- said that it was a -- an appeal from

7 denial of an application for a charter. This

8 is actually an appeal from a termination of a

9 charter, which is slightly different, but the

10 appeals still both do come to the State Board

11 of Education.

12 But we did -- the Volusia County School

13 Board did negotiate -- did approve this

14 application and did negotiate a charter with

15 Mr. Buczek's school. It was only after

16 observing the operation of the school for some

17 22 days that it was determined by the

18 Superintendent to be absolutely necessary in

19 order to protect the safety and welfare of the

20 children at that institution to recommend to

21 the School Board to terminate the charter, and

22 dissolve the school.

23 I would like to -- to respond briefly to

24 one allegation to Mr. Buczek that the School

25 District is hostile toward charter schools,

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DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 which is not the case.

2 We have granted three charter applications

3 in Volusia County. The other two schools are

4 up and running with our assistance. They had

5 some start-up problems, like any school would,

6 but we devoted a lot of staff time and energy

7 to helping them to get going, and they are

8 going and operating as successful charter

9 schools.

10 It was only the Stratford school that did

11 not comply with either the State law or the

12 provisions of its charter.

13 Now, we filed with the State Board a --

14 of course, a copy of the order of the

15 School Board terminating the charter. In this

16 order, it enumerates many, many grounds, and

17 violations of both State law and the charter

18 agreement as grounds for that termination.

19 Good cause was stated. Also when we filed

20 our response to the appeal before the

21 State Board, we accompanied that response with

22 no less than nine or ten affidavits of the

23 senior staff of the Volusia County

24 School Board, who personally, on a daily basis,

25 observed the operation of the Stratford school

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1 during those 22 days of operation.

2 Now, what these affidavits state, and what

3 the order states that was entered by the

4 School Board, is that there was a total lack of

5 supervision at this school. Children were

6 wandering in and out unsupervised, there were

7 fights, there was smoking at will, they were

8 playing guitars and sleeping, there was little

9 or no instruction going on at the Stratford

10 school.

11 The -- this was determined by the

12 Superintendent, and -- when he made his

13 recommendation to the School Board, and they

14 accepted it, to be a serious threat to the

15 safety and welfare of the students at that

16 school, the fact that they weren't supervised,

17 they were allowed to smoke and wander in and

18 out at will.

19 They also failed to do criminal background

20 checks, fingerprinting, drug screening, as

21 required by State law and the statute, and the

22 charter.

23 There was fiscal mismanagement. They

24 received two $50,000 grants from the Federal

25 government, filtered through the State, and

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DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 down to the School Board. One of them was for

2 a school in Brevard County, one of them was for

3 this school. They commingled the funds into

4 one account. The school in Brevard never

5 opened, but yet that 50,000 remains unaccounted

6 for as far as we can tell.

7 They claimed in their application that they

8 were a 501(C)(3) corporation. We find out

9 later on that they never even applied for that

10 status. And that's required by law.

11 The curriculum was seriously lacking in

12 their application, and in the charter. They

13 said they would follow the Sunshine State

14 Standards, they would meet State graduation

15 requirements. They did neither.

16 We had testimony before your Aides last

17 week of Mr. Huth, who told them that a senior

18 student at the Stratford school who needed a

19 credit in English could not graduate, because

20 that's a two semester course for -- for a

21 graduation requirement, and it was not being

22 offered, senior English, at the school.

23 Many other deficiencies with the

24 curriculum, which were -- not only violated

25 State standards, but violated the agreement

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1 that they entered into with the School Board

2 when the School Board agreed to sponsor this

3 school.

4 This, I think, is the first charter

5 termination of an active school in the State,

6 and that's what I've been told. It was with

7 great reluctance, and with -- it's treated as a

8 very serious matter when the School Board took

9 this action. But they felt that they had to do

10 this in order to protect the health and safety

11 and welfare of those children in order to

12 correct its serious violations of State law and

13 breaches of contract by the school.

14 And we would respectfully ask you, sitting

15 as the State Board of Education, to affirm and

16 approve the action of the School Board.

17 The Stratford school can try again. If

18 they want to submit a new application, and do

19 things differently, they will be treated like

20 anyone else in Volusia County. But this was

21 not a good effort, and --

22 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)

23 MR. GRAHAM: -- it was hurting kids, and we

24 ask you respectfully to approve the

25 School Board's action.

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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: May I ask a

2 question, Governor?

3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.

4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'd like to

5 ask a question, sir.

6 Some of the allegations you made are pretty

7 serious. You said that they lied on their

8 application.

9 MR. GRAHAM: That's correct. On the

10 501(C)(3).

11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: 50--(C)(3).

12 MR. GRAHAM: Yes, sir.

13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Which other

14 district are they in besides Volusia?

15 MR. GRAHAM: They filed an application in

16 Brevard County. And I'm told that school never

17 opened. Whether it was approved, and then

18 pulled back, I'm not sure. They did get their

19 grant, so it must have been approved.

20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Has your

21 District contacted the Brevard District to let

22 them know the concerns that you have, that they

23 may want to look into this?

24 MR. GRAHAM: I'm told that that school has

25 not opened, and won't open. But I -- I think

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1 we have talked -- through Commissioner Brogan's

2 office, I think all of the school boards are

3 aware of the shortcomings maybe of -- of

4 applicants throughout the state, if they

5 inquire.

6 And we -- his office has been very

7 supportive and cooperative with us, in all

8 instances of charter school. We've worked with

9 Tracey Bailey, with Bob Ballard, with his

10 staff, a great deal along the way. And I'm

11 sure that Brevard County also has gotten that

12 cooperation.

13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, a

14 follow-up question: If -- if $50,000 was given

15 in two different districts, money unaccounted

16 for, does there get to be a point in time where

17 maybe the State Attorney maybe should be

18 contacted?

19 MR. GRAHAM: The Commissioner -- again,

20 Commissioner Brogan's office has employed

21 someone to do a preliminary audit is what we're

22 told. We've seen a copy of some preliminary

23 figures showing the expenditures, and it does

24 show the commingling of the funds.

25 Mr. Buczek argues that that's not against

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1 the law, and it may not be, to commingle. But

2 I think they do need to be accounted for.

3 The order of the School Board orders the

4 school to account for, and turn over all

5 remaining public funds to the School Board so

6 that we can account for them and turn them

7 over -- back over to the State. That hasn't

8 been done yet, but that order's on appeal.

9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you.

10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir. And -- and

11 if I can interject there.

12 That's one of the things taking place right

13 now is to look at the money that was allocated

14 to determine how much of it was put on the

15 table and used in -- whether it was a failed

16 enterprise or not -- was -- was used in a good

17 faith attempt to begin the school, and what

18 money would be reclaimed by the School District

19 in a contractual relationship, General.

20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Does that apply to

21 Brevard County also, Commissioner?

22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I am not sure what

23 the status --

24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I mean, I'm asking

25 you, because your people are apparently doing

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DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 the audit.

2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: If the circumstances

3 are the same in Brevard County, the answer is

4 yes, sir. Absolutely.

5 And he is correct, that we are -- not --

6 not just in this case, but any time there are

7 multiple sponsorships, in other words, someone

8 wants to open up several charter schools in

9 several different districts, our office has

10 attempted to become the funneling point for

11 information so that each district doesn't have

12 to go about it in an individual way, that

13 there's banked information about multiple

14 sponsorships, good or bad.

15 MR. GRAHAM: If there are no questions,

16 I'm --

17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Any other questions?

18 Thank you very much, sir.

19 MR. GRAHAM: Thank you.

20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I would

21 move that we uphold the School Board's

22 recommendation in this particular case, and

23 that at a later date, if the charter group

24 wants to make another attempt, that they

25 certainly be permitted to do that.

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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.

2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded that

3 the staff recommendation be upheld.

4 Many as -- so many as favor, signify by

5 saying aye.

6 THE CABINET: Aye.

7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.

8 The ayes have it.

9 Staff recommendations are upheld.

10 MR. PIERSON: That concludes our agenda.

11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, I just

13 want to make a comment, if I could.

14 I think this case might be a wake-up call

15 to -- to all of us as it relates to charter

16 schools. Charter schools are a great

17 innovation, and I support them --

18 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)

19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- wholeheartedly.

20 But there's nothing magic in a charter school.

21 It still takes a lot of hard work, takes a lot

22 of dedicated people. And I think this case

23 shows that we -- we have to be vigilant to make

24 sure the charter schools are working. And

25 I think a lot of them are working real well.

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DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 I -- my main concern -- while this brings

2 up additional concerns -- is to make sure that

3 the children that are participating in charter

4 schools are progressing academically. And I --

5 I know that Commissioner Brogan has issued some

6 contracts and grants to do more research to --

7 to follow up on how kids are progressing as

8 they move from grade to grade.

9 I've seen some research that shows that --

10 very limited research, but it shows that there

11 may be some problems out there with some of the

12 schools.

13 In the final analysis, while we don't want

14 to start imposing all of the regulations on

15 charter schools that we have on public

16 schools -- that's, in fact, the point, not to

17 do that -- we need to make sure that the -- the

18 work product is there, and the children are

19 getting a good education.

20 And this case demonstrates to me that left

21 totally unchecked, we could have some real

22 problem with charter schools. So that I

23 hope -- I hope some of the --

24 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)

25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- research that --

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1 Commissioner, that your office is doing can be

2 expanded so that we'll be confident that

3 children are receiving a good education in --

4 in the charter schools.

5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.

6 And, Governor, if I may, you know, those of

7 us who support the charter school movement are

8 also not naive to the fact that some charter

9 schools are going to fail. And sad, but true,

10 that the bottom line with charter schools --

11 and the Commissioner is absolutely correct --

12 there needs to be a bottom line accountability,

13 and that is student achievement, offered in

14 a -- increases offered in a safe and

15 disciplined environment.

16 And if those things are not taking place,

17 then there is a bottom line accountability that

18 needs to be exercised, and that is the fact

19 that that school should be closed.

20 Those of us who support it -- the movement

21 know that -- that, indeed, that is part of the

22 strength of the charter school movement that is

23 very different ofttimes from the traditional

24 public education setting nationally, where in

25 many cases in the traditional system, failed

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DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 ventures continue year after year after year

2 with little or no change in places where

3 student achievement levels are miserably low,

4 and acts of violence are a traditional part of

5 the student day.

6 If the charter school movement is going to

7 have an impact, and I believe it will -- you're

8 right there, Commissioner -- it has got to be

9 based on the fact that there is a bottom line

10 accountability; people are granted the

11 opportunity to do things in a different way;

12 and that if they are successful, we see those

13 opportunities expanded; if they are a failure,

14 that we see them stopped as quickly as

15 possible. And hopefully what we can learn in

16 traditional public education is that same

17 thing, that good things should be rewarded;

18 things that aren't working should be stopped.

19 And -- and you're right, sadly, sometimes,

20 however, those who are opponents of charter

21 schools use the closing of a charter school as

22 some clarion call to suggest that, you see, we

23 told you charter schools wouldn't work.

24 And, in fact, those of us again who are

25 proponents of the movement continue to say that

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DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 you don't understand, that is the strength of

2 the charter school movement. There are some

3 75 charter schools in the state of Florida

4 today, and on occasion, we're -- we have

5 seen -- rare, but we've seen a failure. We've

6 seen a school that -- that was closed.

7 But that is not something that -- that

8 should make us overlook the importance of the

9 movement. It is something that should

10 constantly remind us that appropriate bottom

11 line accountability and vigilance should be the

12 watchword for all of public education, and

13 makes the movement stronger.

14 In this particular case, and in speaking

15 with some of the folks in Volusia County, they

16 would be the first to admit that they probably

17 moved too quickly, which is something we also

18 need to guard against in people's haste to try

19 to do something different in the name of

20 education and children, and that's -- that's a

21 good thing.

22 We also learn as we go. And one of the

23 things I think Volusia County would -- would

24 say, if asked, is that in this particular case,

25 they moved in great haste, both sides talked

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DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 about that this morning; and that in the

2 future, they are going to learn from something

3 like this to see that it isn't repeated.

4 Thanks, Governor.

5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.

6 And I think these remarks are well taken.

7 I -- I believe that we do go back and review

8 what we -- what we were after when we started

9 charter schools. We were trying to give an

10 element of choice. We were trying to force

11 some competition, in effect.

12 But we did say that the school boards would

13 be in charge of making approval of the charter

14 schools, and in charge of watching after the

15 charter schools.

16 I think that we have supported the school

17 boards in their provisions up here in all but

18 I think one provision that we have seen to

19 date. And that shows that the school boards

20 are doing that.

21 I think the -- the verdict is still out on

22 charter schools. I believe that they're going

23 to be -- overall it's going to be a successful

24 move. But I think we knew that it would take

25 some time before we would see what would

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DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 happen, and I think we knew that there would be

2 some -- some astonishing successes, and some

3 dismal failures. And I think we need to

4 recognize that there will be those kind of

5 failures.

6 I hope the Legislature will be careful and

7 not go too fast and too far in charter schools

8 before we get some real results of what the

9 charter schools are doing. And I think it does

10 mean that the county school boards and the

11 superintendents have to watch carefully what is

12 happening to the charter schools, and we have

13 to watch to see that they're watching to see

14 that the job is done properly on it.

15 Thank you.

16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, could I

17 add one --

18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.

19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- one comment on

20 the accountability issue that wasn't really

21 totally addressed, and that's the fiscal

22 accountability.

23 And there has been a red flag raised,

24 I think, and the way that the Federal dollars

25 flow in -- in terms of the accountability of

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1 those dollars. And I think we need to take a

2 hard look at that within the Department of

3 Education, and -- and make sure that we have a

4 good audit trail on those Federal dollars

5 flowing into this program.

6 And that -- that flag is -- red flag is

7 very definitely --

8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir. And both

9 charter schools, and traditional public

10 schools, of course, are both subject to Federal

11 and State audit, must have a full and total

12 accounting of where every dollar is spent, and

13 how it's spent.

14 But you are right, General, that's an

15 important part of both. And I -- I harken back

16 to what I said earlier, that we could probably

17 do a much better job in some traditional public

18 schools of cost accounting, just like we

19 probably could in some charter schools. And

20 there's a lot to learn --

21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Oh, sure. I've been

22 trying for four or five days to find out what

23 happened to the $50,000 in Brevard, and I

24 haven't gotten a good answer yet.

25 So we need to take a good look at it.

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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.

2 (The State Board of Education Agenda was

3 concluded.)

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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 49

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 GOVERNOR CHILES:

2 Administration Commission.

3 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 1, recommend

4 approval of the minutes for the meeting held

5 November 24th, 19--

6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

9 Without objection, the minutes are

10 approved.

11 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 2, recommend

12 approval of the increase of general revenue

13 appropriations for the Department of Children

14 and Families.

15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.

17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

18 Without objection, Item 2 is approved.

19 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 3, recommend

20 approval of the transfer of general revenue

21 appropriations for the Department of Children

22 and Families.

23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 50

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 Without objection, Item 3 is approved.

2 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)

3 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 4, recommend

4 approval of the transfer of general revenue

5 appropriations for the Department of Children

6 and Families and the Department of Health.

7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

10 Without objection, Item 4 is approved.

11 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 5, recommend

12 approval of the transfer of general revenue

13 appropriations for the Florida Game and Fresh

14 Water Fish Commission.

15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.

16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.

18 Without objection, Item 5 is approved.

19 DR. BRADLEY: Item Number 6, request

20 authorization to enter the draft final order

21 amending the University of Florida

22 Comprehensive Plan 1994 to 2004 to designate

23 site 2-22 as passive recreation.

24 This is consideration of the report of the

25 University of Florida Campus Master Plan. And

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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 51

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 we have some speakers who will be given

2 10 minutes a side on this, Governor.

3 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.

4 DR. BRADLEY: First I'd like to introduce

5 Ms. Kim Tanzer. And she is a resident and

6 member of Alice's Friends and the Golfview

7 Neighbor Association.

8 She will introduce speakers for --

9 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)

10 DR. BRADLEY: -- Alice's Friends, and the

11 Golfview Association. They do have 10 minutes.

12 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir. Each

13 side has 10 minutes; is that correct?

14 DR. BRADLEY: Yes -- yes, sir.

15 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.

16 DR. BRADLEY: They're getting their -- they

17 have a brief presentation -- slide presentation

18 that they want to do.

19 For all the speakers, I'll ask you to sign

20 in here. Just sign in after you get done.

21 Thank you.

22 Ten minutes.

23 MS. TANZER: Wait till everyone's in

24 position.

25 My name is Kim Tanzer. I am an architect

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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 52

DECEMBER 8, 1998

1 and an Associate Professor of architecture at

2 the University of Florida and a co-founder of

3 Alice's Friends. Alice's Friends is a

4 community-based volunteer organization.

5 I would like to begin by thanking you and

6 your Aides. Over the past year, they have

7 spent much time and effort learning why so many

8 people in Gainesville believe so strongly in

9 site 2-22 and the Lake Alice experience.

10 Every one of your Aides has represented

11 every one of you very well.

12 Next I would like all of Lake Alice's

13 Friends to stand who are in the audience.

14 As you probably realize, the people here

15 represent a small fraction of the almost

16 8,000 supporters of our petition to redesignate

17 bat house field conservation in the

18 University of Florida Master Plan.

19 Almost everyone here is affiliated with the

20 University of Florida. We are its students,

21 faculty, staff, alumni, and donors. A ruling

22 in our favor is a ruling in favor of the

23 University of Florida.

24 Initially, Alice's Friends challenged two

25 housing sites adjacent to Lake Alice, and we

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1 later relinquished the housing on one site.

2 We, therefore, long ago compromised 80 percent

3 of our challenge.

4 As you also may know, this issue has been

5 scheduled for resolution before this Commission

6 for over a year since mandated mediations broke

7 down in August 1997. Alice's Friends have been

8 scheduled to go before the Administration

9 Commission on three previous occasions, and we

10 have agreed to three previous postponements.

11 The last request for postponement in

12 March 1998 was made by Chancellor Herbert

13 personally, with the explicit understanding

14 that the University of Florida would enter into

15 earnest negotiations with Alice's Friends.

16 Since that time, neither the University of

17 Florida nor the Board of Regents has initiated

18 such negotiations.

19 Instead, Alice's Friends has put forth two

20 written proposals and a series of verbal

21 proposals, beginning with an 18 -- April 1998

22 letter to Chancellor Herbert. All offers were

23 either rejected or ignored. It was only in the

24 eleventh hour, after a meeting scheduled by

25 Alice's Friends with Vice Chancellor Blackwell,

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1 and after Alice's Friends had formally

2 requested today's hearing, that the

3 University of Florida made a settlement

4 proposal.

5 The University's proposal required three to

6 five lighted intramural fields, 50 parking

7 spaces, restrooms, movable bleachers, and the

8 removal of the bat house. After spending a

9 week consulting with over 100 stakeholders and

10 experts, we concluded that their proposal was

11 an inappropriate use of site 2-22. We were

12 obligated to reject the proposal.

13 We rejected it because lighted intramural

14 fields would completely alter the character of

15 Lake Alice.

16 The University's proposal would have

17 allowed up to 500 student athletes, plus their

18 fans on the site every evening.

19 The constant coming and goings of cars

20 would be a traffic nightmare. Scientists told

21 us the bright spotlights necessary for

22 athletics, soccer and flag football, might well

23 have caused the ibis, herons, and egrets that

24 roost along Alice's shores to seek darker

25 homes. The bats would have been displaced.

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1 The constant noise would have been

2 completely contrary to the concept of the

3 University's own Baughman Meditation Center

4 currently planned to be built across the street

5 with a 1 million dollar gift from a donor.

6 Sports fields would essentially destroy the

7 peaceful character of Lake Alice.

8 We are discouraged to report that we see no

9 future in further negotiations, and we

10 respectfully ask that you revolve the issues

11 before you as required by law.

12 Alice's Friends raised four issues in our

13 Master Plan challenge. Two of them, the

14 protection of the natural environment, and the

15 provision of parks, recreation, and open space,

16 involve significant public interest. Our

17 speakers will address these issues.

18 And our first speaker is Ms. Karen Dietz.

19 She is a UF alumna, and the accountant for

20 Bosshardt Realty.

21 MS. DIETZ: Hello. My name is Karen Dietz.

22 Lake Alice and the surrounding natural

23 environment has been a part of my life since I

24 moved to Gainesville in 1993 to attend the

25 University.

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1 It became an even greater part of my life

2 when my mother moved here from south Florida.

3 She visited Lake Alice almost every morning to

4 watch the sun rise, a beautiful substitute she

5 was -- for the beach she was used to.

6 My mother felt very strongly about this

7 place. She spent many mornings there, and even

8 scattered my father's ashes in the lake.

9 My mother died suddenly last year, and

10 Lake Alice was the only place for my family to

11 go to contemplate the meaning of losing her.

12 It was the one place she was spiritually

13 connected to. Not long after she died, we came

14 back to Lake Alice and nurtured a garden there

15 adjacent to the UF bat house, a natural form of

16 therapy for us.

17 I am not -- I am sure I am not the only one

18 with a powerful --

19 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)

20 MS. DIETZ: -- emotional connection to this

21 place. To change it would be to destroy part

22 of the spiritual beauty of the University of

23 Florida and the city of Gainesville.

24 I hope that mine and my mother's emotional

25 attachment, relayed to you through this story,

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1 will help you to understand the importance of

2 this beautiful and natural place.

3 Thank you.

4 MS. TANZER: Our next speaker is

5 Ms. Betsy Styron. She is a UF alumna and a

6 management consultant.

7 MS. STYRON: Thank you.

8 First I would like to say a brief thank you

9 to this Cabinet for having served as well its

10 citizens of the State of Florida, and I

11 appreciate that.

12 I have lived in Alachua County for

13 30 years. As a matter of fact, I was a student

14 assistant in Stephen C. O'Connell's office and

15 greeted him this afternoon. That was my first

16 experience with Lake Alice.

17 I have been very involved in the business

18 community in Gainesville, and I am here to

19 speak for those people, many of whom I have had

20 this discussion with.

21 And I would like to say that there is a

22 whole piece of Lake Alice in terms of -- of

23 representing the beauty of north central

24 Florida that people from outside of our area

25 enjoy.

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1 Two business people who have talked to me

2 about this, one, Doran Oster, who owns an

3 international manufacturing company. He has

4 many Asian clients. He says it's one of the

5 first places that he takes people when they

6 come to town, not just to see the alligators,

7 but for the meditative quality of the place.

8 Another person who called me last night,

9 Margaret Boonstra, her husband is a former

10 ambassador from South America, said to me that

11 her son has an international business. It is

12 one of the places where they bring people to

13 visit.

14 The Uni-- Lake Alice has been a place where

15 not just students, but from people from who all

16 over -- all over enjoy the sense of the place.

17 I was trying to struggle for something to

18 call it. And in some ways, it is a jewel in

19 the crown of Gainesville and Alachua County.

20 It is centrally located. And it has an

21 ambiance that other places try to reproduce.

22 And I would very much like to see your vote to

23 preserve that which we have.

24 I happen to be a member of a women's

25 leadership organization in Gainesville, and I

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1 will be brief about that. There are 50 women,

2 and we are there because we are leaders in the

3 community.

4 Some names you might recognize: Van York,

5 Cynthia Chestnut, Portia Taylor, Jean Chalmers,

6 Esther Tibbs, Cindy Shaw-Wall. All of these

7 women in our October meeting -- someone brought

8 it up at our agenda. There are just 50 of us.

9 Thirty-two of them signed a petition that said,

10 please preserve Lake Alice.

11 These women represent all walks of

12 professions in Alachua County. And I would ask

13 for you to please vote to preserve it.

14 Thank you very much.

15 MS. TANZER: Our next speaker is

16 Mr. Mark Stowe. He is a natural products

17 biotechnology scientist with the

18 University of Florida.

19 MR. STOWE: The conservation element

20 requires master plans to conserve and protect

21 wildlife habitats and water resources.

22 Lake Alice became a wildlife sanctuary in

23 the '30s, and in the '60s with the help of

24 Marjorie Carr, an Audubon bird sanctuarian. It

25 is a designated city and county nature park.

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1 It is also a teaching resource for more than

2 20 UF science classes, and an invaluable

3 research resource for life scientists in many

4 departments.

5 Every day, Lake Alice is also visited by

6 bird watchers, wildlife photographers, and

7 tourists from around the world.

8 I agree with noted botanist, Dan Ward, that

9 Lake Alice is one of the most easily accessible

10 biodiverse areas in Florida, a great place to

11 see alligators, turtles, and many kinds of

12 birds, especially the wading birds that roost

13 there every night.

14 The bat house is currently perfectly

15 situated next to the best site along the lake

16 for viewing wildlife.

17 The birds are the most vulnerable to

18 intensive development, especially the limpkins

19 and others on the species of special concern

20 list.

21 Research has shown that roosts are most

22 sensitive to nocturnal disturbances, and

23 disturbances are additive. The bat house field

24 is directly across the street from the wading

25 bird roosts, which will be at risk.

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1 The bat --

2 MS. TANZER: I'm sorry, Mark. We have to

3 cut you off to --

4 MR. STOWE: Okay.

5 MS. TANZER: -- get one more speaker in.

6 We're being held tightly to our 10 minutes.

7 Our last speaker -- we're going to skip

8 down to Mr. David Carr, for symbolic reasons

9 obviously. He is also a UF alumnus, and the

10 executor of the estate of Marjorie Harris Carr.

11 MR. CARR: Thank you very much. I'm a

12 native of Gainesville, and have grown up with

13 my -- joining my mother and my father, Marjorie

14 and Archie Carr, to go enjoy -- actually we

15 work on Lake Alice, and -- but enjoyed it

16 through the years.

17 They -- I thought I would read something

18 that my father wrote years ago, and included it

19 in a letter to Stephen C. O'Connell when the

20 University was considering a State road passing

21 by it. And my father was writing them to urge

22 them to steer the road to some other location.

23 This is what he wrote about Lake Alice in

24 1964 in his book Ulendo, Travels of the

25 Naturalist In and Out of Africa.

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1 In Florida these days, you can still hear

2 under the mindless glad din over industry

3 coming in, the voices of old ones or of young

4 ones who have listened to the old ones grieving

5 over the passing of the wilderness. They are

6 no longer watching landscapes wasting away.

7 That happened long ago.

8 What is going on now is just a lot

9 of little cleanup operations, little

10 scratching outs of the small tag-ins and

11 patches of the past overlooked in the first

12 ways of ruin.

13 There's a little pond I know, Jonah's Pond

14 we used to call it, until that seemed to some

15 less elegant than Lake Alice, a few priceless

16 acres of marsh and swamp and pond water at

17 the edge of the University of Florida campus

18 where any spring morning you can do -- can to

19 this day have a glimpse of how Florida used to

20 be.

21 There will be five kinds of herons nesting

22 there in good seasons, croaking and chuckling

23 over the sharing of the home space; gallinules

24 and boat-tailed grackels running the pads, over

25 and around basking turtles and alligators;

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1 white ibis; glossy ibis; and anhingas; swamp

2 rabbits; and people coming and going; the fat

3 water snakes that do not bother to whip off

4 when cars full of children stop and jibber

5 10 feet up the fill from the edge of the pond.

6 The floating sound of bullfrog talk, the

7 sound of red-winged blackbirds. It's all there

8 still, save somehow, almost as it was when I

9 first saw it 32 years ago. It's a little

10 island of old times, it's a slowly edging back

11 before the closing of the circle of necessary

12 progress.

13 Everyone is sorry to see it shrinking, but

14 the war babies are coming to college now, and

15 having babies of their own, and little can be

16 done.

17 Again, that's from a book he wrote in 1964.

18 But thank you very much.

19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.

20 DR. BRADLEY: Governor, we went over a

21 couple minutes on -- on that one.

22 So next we have -- we have to do the other

23 side, unless you have some questions of this

24 group.

25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Are there questions?

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1 Thank you very much.

2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, could I ask

3 a question? I suppos-- I -- I'm trying to

4 avoid everybody having to move out and move

5 back in, so maybe I'd better ask this now of

6 someone.

7 I understand there are several issues all

8 combined here together: The lake, the bat

9 house, the recreation, it's all sort of

10 intertwined as one issue.

11 The bat house, of course, continues to

12 be -- whether it's considered an overarching

13 issue or not, it's a large one in all of this.

14 The question of the lights that was -- that

15 was mentioned earlier, and has been a part,

16 I guess, of the negotiations -- I put that word

17 in quotes -- there -- there's a story behind

18 the bat house, and I don't remember it exactly.

19 But if memory serves, the bat house was

20 constructed as a way to theoretically, and then

21 practically, attract bats from somewhere

22 elsewhere where people didn't want them, so

23 that they could come out to that place and live

24 in the bat house.

25 Does someone remember where we were trying

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1 to attract the bats from in the first place?

2 MS. TANZER: From the stadium.

3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The stadium. The --

4 that big concrete, well --

5 MS. TANZER: Yes, sir.

6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- lit thing over on

7 the other side of the campus.

8 MS. TANZER: From the underside of it.

9 From the dark crevices underneath the -- as you

10 walk through when you go to your seats.

11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Where they leave at

12 night to go out and ofttimes feed on the

13 insects, which collect up around the Halogen

14 lights that light the field. That stadium.

15 I'm being glib here, obviously, to try to

16 prove a point. A), as I was told, the bats

17 almost didn't want to move out of the stadium.

18 There was some question as to whether the bat

19 house was ever going to work or not. It sat

20 there and sat there and sat there, until the

21 bats finally, for whatever reason, decided to

22 move -- excuse me. Let me finish.

23 And then, b), once -- once there, as I

24 understand it, and I admittedly know very

25 little about bats, but knew -- do know that

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1 they do leave the bat house at night, I am

2 told, to go feed, ofttimes in places that are

3 well lit, which provide an interesting menu of

4 insect life drawn themselves to the light.

5 Is that a layman's explanation?

6 DR. BRADLEY: Come up here.

7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.

8 DR. BRADLEY: State your name.

9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And I -- I didn't

10 mean to cut you off, but --

11 MR. McNAB: My name is Brian McNab. I'm

12 professor of zoology at the University of

13 Florida.

14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So you know your

15 bats.

16 MR. McNAB: Well, I've worked on bats

17 throughout the new world and in the south

18 Pacific.

19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Then you know

20 markedly more than I about bats. I give you

21 that one.

22 MR. McNAB: Maybe just a small amount.

23 The bats went into the new baseball

24 stadium, the new track stadium, and the new

25 tennis stadium. And people would go in,

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1 especially in the beginning, to the new track

2 stadium, and they would see all the bat

3 droppings around and there were complaints.

4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Sure.

5 MR. McNAB: So the athletic department

6 decided we have to do something about this, and

7 very kindly, they gave -- the athletic

8 association gave $20,000 to say, could you

9 build a bat house and get -- let us get rid of

10 the bats.

11 And when I heard that proposal, originally,

12 frankly, I scoffed, because nobody has ever

13 been able to anywhere build a bat house to get

14 bats to go in where you want them to go. They

15 like to go into old buildings, old barns, there

16 are some old buildings on campus that have been

17 used -- or on a regular basis.

18 And what normally is done is you go in with

19 a fumigator, and they go in and they kill the

20 bats, and then they fill in the holes, and then

21 that's the end of the bat colony.

22 And for years, I tried to -- to work on

23 this kind of bat in -- in Florida. I could

24 never find a bat colony. And every time we

25 heard about one, it was either a building had

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1 just collapsed, or the fumigators had gone in

2 to kill it.

3 But they -- they built this bat house on --

4 on campus, and they actually went in with --

5 and they got sacks of bats, and they brought

6 them -- pulled them out of the stadium, and put

7 into the bat house, closed it off, and let the

8 bats defecate a lot to make it really smelly --

9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Home sweet home --

10 MR. McNAB: Home sweet home.

11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- I'm sure.

12 MR. McNAB: Then they let the bats -- then

13 they opened it up and let the bats leave, and

14 they did.

15 And they were gone for about two to

16 three years until people found, well, by gosh,

17 a few bats are coming back for winter. Because

18 in a cool winter, they were -- they needed a

19 place to -- to find shelter.

20 And then ever so gradually, that bat

21 population built up and built up. And then a

22 couple of years later, people realized, because

23 they went under -- underneath, and they found a

24 few young dead bats, that's now a breeding

25 colony.

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1 So we now have something like 60,000 bats

2 in this bat house. But we ought not to take it

3 for granted that, oh, what we'll do is we'll

4 build another bat house, and these bats

5 obviously will go from here to there.

6 There was an old example somewhere in the

7 '20s I think it was, a man by the name of

8 Campbell tried -- in Key West, Florida, decided

9 there were too many mosquitoes in Key West, and

10 instead of -- instead of spraying, what we're

11 going to do is we're going to build a big bat

12 house.

13 And he built this big bat tower, which was

14 a fiasco, because no bat ever decided it was an

15 adequate place to go to.

16 So it's really a remarkable accomplishment.

17 And I understand for those who are -- the

18 state of Florida fans, if not UF fans -- I

19 understand there's a couple other universities

20 in town.

21 But the University of Georgia has decided

22 that, by gosh, you hear that Florida, they

23 built a bat house, it was successful. Let's

24 build a bat house. And if Florida can do it,

25 by God, we can do it in Georgia.

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1 So we ought not to be too cavalier about

2 destroying this resource. We've got a lot of

3 publicity as a result of it. And actually, I

4 have a -- a very good suggestion. We build two

5 more bat houses next to the present bat house,

6 and we call it the John Lombardi Memorial Bat

7 House. And it would be a marvelous

8 opportunity.

9 TREASURER NELSON: Professor --

10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you for the

11 explanation.

12 TREASURER NELSON: Professor.

13 MR. McNAB: Yes.

14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Your Batness.

15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Bat man.

16 MR. McNAB: Was there a question?

17 TREASURER NELSON: Aside from the question

18 of the lighted fields and so forth, is -- and

19 aside from what you just addressed about

20 whether or not, in fact, the bats will transfer

21 to another location, is there a reason -- is

22 there a desirable reason of why the bat house

23 ought to be located on the east side of the

24 lake, as opposed to the west side of the lake?

25 MR. McNAB: Well, probably not. It just so

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1 happens, by happenstance, that's where they

2 decided to build -- to build the bat house.

3 And one sort of lives a little bit with

4 historic contingencies; that is, a decision was

5 made five, six years ago, that's where they're

6 going to put the bat house. It has been --

7 TREASURER NELSON: Who made that decision,

8 by the way?

9 MR. McNAB: Well, I presume it was the

10 University administration that made it, because

11 I don't think the athletic association has the

12 authority to make that decision. So I presume

13 they went somewhere in the administrative

14 circles of the University and say, look, we --

15 we've got this problem in our athletic

16 facilities. What can we do, we need a place,

17 we're going to contribute $20,000.

18 And somebody somewhere along the line,

19 said, well, look, they're right next to

20 Lake Alice. But actually it's an excellent

21 place for it, because --

22 TREASURER NELSON: All right. I -- I want

23 to raise a different question --

24 MR. McNAB: All right.

25 TREASURER NELSON: -- now though.

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1 The question is is whether or not it should

2 be transferred to the east end of the lake, as

3 opposed to where it is now.

4 So from a zoological perspective, is there

5 a desirable reason to put it on the opposite

6 side of the lake, as opposed to where it is

7 now?

8 MR. McNAB: No. I don't think there's a

9 good zoological reason to move the bat house.

10 In fact, I think the -- there's a good

11 zoological reason to leave it alone, leave it

12 where it is. Because it has been a success,

13 and it would really be a -- I think a blot on

14 the University of Florida, and even for the

15 general environmental condition of the state of

16 Florida that we for some rather minor reason

17 have decided to move the bat house, and then it

18 turns out to be, we can't pull this business

19 off again like we did --

20 TREASURER NELSON: Aside from that --

21 MR. McNAB: -- of --

22 TREASURER NELSON: -- reason of the

23 difficulty of moving the bats, which you've

24 made your case, is there an ecological reason

25 that it is a more desirable location on the

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1 other side of the lake?

2 MR. McNAB: No. There is no such reason.

3 TREASURER NELSON: Okay.

4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

5 MR. McNAB: Fine.

6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank y'all.

7 DR. BRADLEY: They're just going to present

8 you with -- it looks like some petitions,

9 Governor.

10 MS. TANZER: Almost 8,000.

11 DR. BRADLEY: Eight thousand petitions.

12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Oh.

13 DR. BRADLEY: Let me now go on to the --

14 some folks from the University of Florida and

15 the Board of Regents.

16 First we'll have Jerry Schaeffer, who is

17 the Vice President for Administrative Affairs

18 at the University of Florida, come up and

19 speak.

20 And then he'll be -- he'll introduce

21 Dr. James Mau, who's the acting Chancellor of

22 the Board of Regents.

23 We've given them an extra two-and-a-half

24 minutes, which is the time that the other group

25 had. So they have twelve-and-a-half minutes,

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1 Governor.

2 Doctor.

3 MR. SCHAEFFER: Thank you.

4 Governor and Commissioners, good morning,

5 and thank you for the opportunity to appear

6 before you with respect to this matter.

7 Before I start, I would just mention in

8 order to set the record clear that the bat

9 house was built in 1991, and the first

10 inhabitant arrived in January of 1995. And

11 that -- from then on, it went to exactly where

12 we are now, with approximately 60,000 bats.

13 And the reiteration about the location of

14 them and where they were is absolutely correct.

15 It was primarily a problem located at the track

16 stadium. And believe it or not, the Land Use

17 Committee, which reports to me, made the

18 recommendation to locate them there. And at

19 that time, we approved that as a temporary

20 site.

21 The University of Florida believes the

22 existing designation in the Master Plan is

23 supported by competent data and analysis. An

24 informal hearing was conducted before the

25 Department of Community Affairs, in which

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1 evidence was submitted on this issue, and the

2 Department found the University in compliance.

3 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the

4 room.)

5 MR. SCHAEFFER: The University of Florida

6 has limited resources available to meet its

7 needs, one of which is the need to provide

8 future housing for a growing group of graduate

9 students and students with families. It must

10 do that in light of limited and finite

11 resources.

12 Although the data and analysis arising out

13 of the master planning process indicated that

14 site 2-22 was the best site for graduate and

15 family housing, we tried hard to locate an

16 alternative site that was -- would adequately

17 meet all the required criteria, but were unable

18 to do so.

19 Despite this problem, which is one, quite

20 frankly, we still do not know the solution to,

21 the University has offered my -- offered a

22 compromise, and that is to designate the site

23 as active recreation, and to limit development

24 on the site to three to five recreational

25 playing fields.

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1 Although this offer, which would have

2 addressed the concerns set forth in the

3 petition objecting to the designation, was

4 rejected by the petitioners, the University is

5 certainly willing, and will not appeal an order

6 directing the site be used as active recreation

7 with a portion of the eastern segment

8 designated for passive recreation.

9 A designation of active recreation

10 addresses the compatibility complaints of

11 petitioners in that recreational fields are of

12 low density use.

13 It addresses the environmental concerns --

14 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the

15 room.)

16 MR. SCHAEFFER: -- and that it will

17 substantially reduce, if not eliminate, the

18 storm water run-off to the lake. In addition,

19 it addresses the concern that there is not

20 enough recreational space on campus, which is a

21 major concern of the majority of our student

22 body.

23 In discussions with petitioner, it is clear

24 they are rejecting the offer because it does

25 not prohibit the moving of the bat house to a

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1 new location.

2 Their first concern is that the bats may

3 not relocate. In response to that, we have

4 said, and we have always agreed, that we will

5 not build a single field until the bats were

6 successfully relocated. And we have on several

7 occasions suggested that that criteria be

8 placed in the Commission's order.

9 We built the house several years ago in

10 order to relocate the bats from living in

11 several buildings on campus, most notably the

12 track facility as discussed earlier.

13 We went through great efforts to make it a

14 success. The current decision to move the bat

15 house was not made lightly. We retained an

16 expert on bats, Dr. Melvin (sic) Tuttle, who is

17 President of Bat Conservation International, to

18 assist us in this process.

19 The result of Mr. Tuttle's assistance is

20 that the bats will be moved to a better

21 location in a better structure. The reason to

22 move the bats are two-fold: There are problems

23 in the existing structure that need to be

24 corrected in the design of a new house.

25 The sides of the fins are too slippery, and

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1 we have problems with baby bats falling from

2 this structure. Exposed voids allow bats

3 access to fiberglass insulation, a known lung

4 irritant. Structural repair to correct age

5 deterioration or storm water damage cannot be

6 accomplished without creating a major

7 disturbance to the existing house and possible

8 loss of the colony. Wood decay problems

9 requiring repair are anticipated in the future.

10 There is a major safety concern existing at

11 the present location, which requires crossing a

12 busy road at dusk, and the potential for

13 children or pets running into traffic.

14 The new structure will be in a location

15 that addresses the safety issues and will be

16 constructed in a manner that overcomes these

17 deficiencies, and in addition, will include

18 natural ventilation, which will be utilized to

19 provide for better temperature regulation,

20 which will be cooler in the summer, and warmer

21 in the winter, and the materials used in the

22 construction of the facility will be selected

23 to provide a maximum life.

24 In closing, the University firmly believes

25 it has made concessions on the issues that

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1 would satisfy 95 percent or more of those

2 individuals that originally objected and signed

3 the petition which was relating to housing, and

4 not the recreational fields.

5 There are some who are adamant that the

6 site be left exactly as it is. Unfortunately,

7 the University does not have the luxury. The

8 available land to the University is very

9 limited, and is important to the future of the

10 University and its students that be able to

11 place, at a minimum, three recreational fields

12 on this site so that it can retain the

13 possibility of displacing some of the existing

14 fields for housing or other uses.

15 These three fields will be used for soccer,

16 baseball, and flag football, with approximately

17 30 students participating at any one time.

18 The impact upon the lake and those who

19 enjoy it will be minimal. We have preserved

20 the area around the lake, and, in fact, have

21 plans for major gardens and a meditation center

22 costing millions of dollars.

23 We believe we have spent considerable

24 effort to weigh the interests of the adjoining

25 land owners by offering an active recreation

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1 designation. We believe the changes in the

2 future of the Lake Alice experience will be a

3 positive -- will have a positive impact on

4 future generations.

5 If the Commission finds the plan to be in

6 noncompliance, the Commiss-- we request that

7 the Commission direct that the site be

8 designated for active recreation with a segment

9 of the eastern portion designated as passive

10 recreation.

11 And we thank you very much for your time

12 this morning.

13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.

14 Question?

15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --

16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.

17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and before I do --

18 Bob, is that the last speaker?

19 MR. SCHAEFFER: No. I'd like to

20 introduce --

21 DR. BRADLEY: Dr. James --

22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll wait.

23 DR. BRADLEY: -- Mau, who's the

24 Acting Chancellor of the Board of Regents,

25 will speak. And they have approximately

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1 six-and-a-half minutes left.

2 DR. MAU: Governor --

3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.

4 DR. MAU: -- Commissioners, good morning.

5 Thank you for the opportunity to present

6 this statement this morning.

7 What began as a process to determine

8 whether the University of Florida's designation

9 of a parcel of land for student housing is in

10 compliance with State law could establish a

11 precedent which redefines the process by which

12 land uses are designated on State University

13 System campuses, as well as who makes those

14 designations.

15 The Commission's final action in this

16 proceeding has far-reaching implications for

17 all the State universities. A ruling in favor

18 of the petitioner establishes the precedent

19 that land use designations based upon sound

20 planning principles, and supported by competent

21 and substantial evidence, may be rejected by

22 the Commission if the designation is unpopular

23 enough locally.

24 After an informal hearing on this matter,

25 and after review of the evidence provided by

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1 the parties, the Department of

2 Community Affairs found no merit in the

3 petitioner's allegations that designation of

4 the site for housing was inappropriate.

5 In preparing this plan, the University

6 worked closely with the Land Management

7 Advisory Council to include provisions that

8 would protect all natural resources from

9 adverse impacts of development.

10 The plan was ultimately approved by the

11 Land Management Advisory Council, and by the

12 Division of State Lands acting on behalf of the

13 Board of Trustees of the Internal Improvement

14 Trust Fund.

15 Given the State's proprietary interest in

16 protecting lands owned by the State, it's

17 inconceivable to think that the University's

18 Master Plan would have been approved by the

19 Land Management Advisory Council and the

20 Division of State Lands if development

21 reflected in the Master Plan, or the principles

22 to guide that development, posed any

23 significant threat to Lake Alice.

24 A ruling in favor of the petitioner fails

25 to recognize the hardship imposed on the

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1 University.

2 By denying the University a reasonable and

3 beneficial use of the site, a ruling in favor

4 of the petitioner will leave the University

5 little choice but to convert existing

6 recreational fields on campus to sites for

7 future graduate and marriage student housing,

8 resulting in a net loss of recreational

9 facilities.

10 A ruling in favor of the petitioner fails

11 to recognize the efforts of the State

12 University System to resolve the issues in

13 dispute.

14 Since the petition was filed, the

15 University has offered to reduce the number of

16 housing units and reconfigure housing on the

17 site to minimize any alleged incompatibilities

18 with the Golfview neighborhood. They offered

19 to redesignate the site for active recreation

20 uses, with limited development and uses

21 allowed, and to postpone any designation of the

22 site for housing for at least 15 years.

23 They offered to redesignate the site for a

24 combination of active recreation and passive

25 recreation uses, with limited development and

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1 uses allowed, and again to postpone any

2 designation of the site for housing for at

3 least 15 years.

4 A ruling in favor of the petitioner defines

5 too narrowly the public interest involved.

6 There's much greater public interest involved,

7 and that is the interest served by the State

8 University System that cannot grow and develop

9 to meet its future needs.

10 The State universities are precluded from

11 developing certain areas on campus, because a

12 limited segment of the community is in

13 opposition, then the ability of the State

14 University System to provide necessary programs

15 and facilities to meet the demands of the

16 future will be severely undermined.

17 The real public interest involved here is

18 the interest of every person currently

19 attending a State University, and every person

20 who ever hopes to attend one, because they are

21 the ones who will be shortchanged by a ruling

22 in favor of the petitioners.

23 The University simply does not have the

24 luxury of being able to designate land that is

25 otherwise developable as passive recreation

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1 areas.

2 Furthermore, there is ample opportunity for

3 passive recreation across the street from the

4 site, along Lake Alice, where it is most

5 commonly used for that purpose now.

6 In closing, the Commission is being asked

7 to weigh the interests of a small segment of

8 the University community concerned about

9 maintaining the serenity and tranquility of the

10 site against the interests of the University

11 and the Board of Regents concerned about their

12 ability to provide necessary programs and

13 facilities to meet the demands of future

14 generations.

15 For the express purpose of resolving this

16 dispute, I urge you to direct the staff to

17 enter a final order that directs the University

18 and the Board of Regents to amend the Campus

19 Master Plan to designate the site for active

20 recreation use.

21 Thank you very much.

22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Any questions?

23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: If -- that was the

24 last speaker, Bob, correct?

25 Governor, if I may, there is -- there is

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1 a -- an unwritten tradition on my four years on

2 the Florida Cabinet that suggests that -- and

3 we've all been here before, that if we have two

4 parties who are at the microphone, or an issue

5 that's coming before us, and we feel that even

6 though it appears on the surface that both

7 sides are trenched in on their original

8 positions with negotiations typically through

9 our staff, and both parties, we feel as though

10 there is an accommodation coming to the fore

11 that we can either reach that accommodation,

12 and then vote on same at that same meeting; or

13 that we can defer the issue and move it to see

14 if those accommodations can be brought together

15 in negotiation to a final resolution that will

16 at least make both sides amenable to the final

17 vote, and feel as though they both won, if you

18 will.

19 I have not been at this as long as some of

20 you up here. But I can smell a negotiation

21 that is close to settlement. And I've been

22 wrong before. And I am -- and again, working

23 with staff of the mind that even though at that

24 podium both sides are stating their original

25 positions on this, unless someone out there is

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1 being disingenuous, it would appear as though

2 both sides are willing to move from their

3 original positions. To what end, I'm not still

4 sure.

5 But it has become evident to me that the

6 external problem that we have here today is

7 that I would typically at this point, and

8 would, in clear conscience, ask for a deferral,

9 and then try to force further negotiations to

10 see if it were possible to reach an agreement,

11 mutually agreed upon. If not, nothing

12 ventured, nothing gained.

13 But I know that one of the external factors

14 we have facing us today is the fact that this

15 is our last Cabinet meeting together, and we

16 will, at least for three members of this

17 Cabinet, be turning this issue over to three

18 new members come January. And I am sensitive

19 to that fact.

20 But I think that as I heard stated earlier

21 by someone at the podium that there's been no

22 negotiations, I don't agree with that. Maybe

23 the negotiations haven't gone the way people

24 would like them to go because their position

25 hasn't been the one to prevail.

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1 But I think there have been negotiations,

2 and I think those negotiations have moved this

3 process forward as stated by both sides, from

4 we will do nothing with the Lake Alice

5 situation, to -- from the other side, which

6 was, we will build residential facilities on

7 the Lake Alice property, to a point in time

8 where both sides appeared to be, at least to my

9 knowledge in the last hour, willing to consider

10 other options centering around recreation, and

11 further centering around the possibility of

12 active and passive recreation.

13 Now, while I know I don't speak for either

14 side, and I certainly don't speak for all on

15 either side, that was what was made aware to me

16 just a few moments ago.

17 All of that to say this: It's worrisome to

18 me that we're about to move forward, I think,

19 and come to a final vote on an issue based on

20 the fact that there's going to be a turnover in

21 Cabinet within the next 30 days, on an issue

22 that again after four years at this, leads me

23 to believe -- and again, may have been proven

24 wrong if I had been granted a deferral -- that

25 we can craft a resolution to this issue that is

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1 different from the original stated position of

2 both sides months ago to even the stated

3 position of both sides at that podium today,

4 that will not only be good for Lake Alice, but

5 will also be good for the needs of the master

6 planning process at the University of Florida,

7 which is certainly not as -- on the surface,

8 not as important ecologically as -- as the

9 Lake Alice property, one of which I'm very

10 aware and think is gorgeous, and important

11 ecologically, is something we have to deal with

12 as members of the State Board, and as will the

13 members of the Board of Regents.

14 So I am really in a quandary over this

15 issue, and find myself in a position where if I

16 vote against staff recommendation, it is not

17 because I am voting for or against the Friends

18 of Alice, or the position of the University of

19 Florida, but would be voting against the fact

20 that we have an opportunity, I am still

21 convinced, to reach a mutual agreement on this

22 issue if we can continue the negotiations, even

23 with new players involved -- at least a

24 minority of new players -- before one or the

25 next meeting to come up in January.

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1 And I just hate to give up on a

2 negotiation, and end up voting for or against

3 one or the other when I still believe, in my

4 heart, and my instinct, that there is the

5 potential of further negotiations which have

6 been brought to a greater urgency by virtue of

7 the fact that we're about to vote today.

8 And maybe somebody can help me with -- with

9 my quandary. But --

10 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think I can help you.

11 I am --

12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --

13 GOVERNOR CHILES: And the reason I think I

14 can help you is that I think that I have to

15 vote on the majority side in this one. I would

16 vote against the motion to defer.

17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I understand.

18 GOVERNOR CHILES: If that would help you.

19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --

20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That was -- that was

21 largely the impetus behind my comments.

22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --

23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.

24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I understand.

25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- if I might, since

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1 this will be my last Cabinet meeting, this is

2 an issue that we have been struggling with,

3 I guess, for about a year.

4 And, frankly, I have seen very few -- very

5 few issues that have received more input from

6 citizens around the state of Florida. And

7 literally, not just in the Alachua County area.

8 I think that this is what representative

9 form of government is truly all about. And

10 that's what this Cabinet has been about, at

11 least for me over the past four years.

12 I believe very strongly -- and I might add

13 that those people that have e-mailed me, you

14 have found my personal e-mail, as well as my

15 State e-mail. So you are very, very

16 innovative, and I congratulate you for that.

17 I have literally received hundreds and

18 hundreds and hundreds of e-mail, and I hope

19 that we've gotten back to each and every one of

20 you.

21 But, Governor, I would -- and I hope that

22 this isn't setting a precedent. But if it is,

23 so be it. That's kind of what it's all about,

24 too.

25 I would like to move staff's

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1 recommendation, and that we would keep the bat

2 house where it is currently located.

3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

4 GOVERNOR CHILES: There's been a motion and

5 second that we move the staff recommendation --

6 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --

7 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- and -- and leave the

8 bat house where it is presently located.

9 Yes, sir.

10 TREASURER NELSON: May I inquire of the

11 University officials a couple of pieces of

12 information.

13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.

14 TREASURER NELSON: Would somebody from the

15 University --

16 In Alachua County, how many acres is there

17 for the University of Florida campus?

18 MR. SCHAEFFER: Well, our main campus is

19 2,000 acres, roughly. And we have --

20 approximately one-third of that campus is

21 identified as passive recreation and

22 conservation, green space or conservation

23 areas. So approximately 33 percent of that.

24 And in addition, that does not include

25 Lake Wauberg, which is a major recreational

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1 site, which I think most of you are familiar

2 with, that is located approximately 12 miles

3 south, that has a couple hundred acres.

4 TREASURER NELSON: All right. In the

5 2,000 acre main campus that you're referring

6 to, does that include the area over there by

7 the -- the medical school?

8 MR. SCHAEFFER: Yes, sir.

9 TREASURER NELSON: Does that include the

10 IFAS --

11 MR. SCHAEFFER: Yes, sir.

12 TREASURER NELSON: -- facilities right

13 across Archer Road?

14 MR. SCHAEFFER: Yes, sir.

15 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. And you say of

16 that 2,000 acre campus, that a third of it is

17 set aside --