T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
VOLUME I
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
June 22, 1999, commencing at approximately 9:09 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
BOB CRAWFORD
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
BILL NELSON
Treasurer
TOM GALLAGHER
Commissioner of Education
*
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
3
June 22, 1999
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
(Presented by L.H. Fuchs,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 6
2 Approved 6
3 Approved 7
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director)
1 Approved 9
2 Approved 9
3 Approved 9
4 Approved 10
5 Approved 10
6 Approved 11
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Tom Herndon,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 12
2 Approved 12
3 Approved 13
4 Approved 13
5 Approved 14
5 through 16 Approved 15
17 Approved 16
18 1. Approved 17
18 2. Deferred 17
19 Approved 23
20 Approved 24
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4
June 22, 1999
I N D E X
(Continued)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
(Presented by Sandra C. Sartin,
Policy Coordinator)
1 Approved 25
2 Approved 25
3, 4, and 5 Approved 26
6 and 7 Approved 26
8 Approved 26
9 Approved 27
10 and 11 Approved 27
12 Approved 27
13 Approved 28
14 Approved 28
15, 16, and 17 Approved 28
18 Approved 29
19 Approved 30
20 Approved 30
21 Approved 30
22 Approved 31
23 Approved 31
24 Approved 31
25 Approved 32
26 Approved 32
27 Approved 32
(Presented by Teresa Tinker
Policy Coordinator)
28 and 29 Approved 71
30 Approved 103
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
5
June 22, 1999
I N D E X
(Continued)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner)
1 Approved 104
2 Approved 196
3 Deferred 198
4 Approved 198
5 Approved 198
Luncheon Recess 199
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 200
*
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 6
June 22, 1999
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:37 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of Revenue.
4 MR. FUCHS: Good morning.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
6 MR. FUCHS: Item 1 is the -- is a request
7 for the approval of the minutes of the
8 May 25th, 1999, meeting.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MR. FUCHS: Item 2 is a request for
16 approval to file with the Secretary of State
17 under Chapter 120 the creation of
18 Rule 12-3.011, which is the Department
19 Personnel Disciplinary Procedures and
20 Standards.
21 These have been in effect for a number of
22 years, but under the new APA, they need to be
23 promulgated as an official rule.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 7
June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. FUCHS: Item 3 is a request for
4 approval to file with the Secretary of State
5 the creation of Part II of Rule Chapter 12-25.
6 This is the almost final step in the
7 creation of the Certified Audit Program, a
8 public/private partnership where the
9 Department of Revenue uses private CPAs to
10 expand our audit coverage; and the business
11 community has the opportunity to use their own
12 CPAs to -- to do tax audits, instead of having
13 the more intrusive appearance of -- of
14 Department of Revenue auditors.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MR. FUCHS: And Item 4 is another rule,
21 12A-1.043 and 12A-1.051, having to do with the
22 allocation of costs by contractors in the
23 construction of real property.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 8
June 22, 1999
1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MR. FUCHS: Thank you.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Larry.
6 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
7 concluded.)
8 *
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 9
June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Division of Bond Finance.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 2 is a resolution
9 authorizing the issuance and negotiated sale of
10 up to 350 million dollars in PECO refunding
11 bonds.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 3 is a resolution
17 authorizing the competitive sale of up to
18 30.5 million dollars in facilities management
19 revenue bonds.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 4 is a resolution
25 authorizing the competitive sale of up to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 10
June 22, 1999
1 nine million two hundred twenty thousand
2 dollars in parking facility revenue bonds.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 5 is a resolution
8 authorizing the distribution of RFPs for
9 financial advisor for the Division.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there --
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- a second?
15 Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 6 is a report of
18 award on the sale of 300 million dollars in
19 P2000 bonds.
20 This is the ninth installment of a ten-year
21 program. The bonds were awarded to the low
22 bidder at a true interest cost rate of
23 approximately 4.60 percent.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 11
June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. WATKINS: Thank you.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: That was only, like,
5 six hundred million dollars of debt,
6 seven hundred million in 5 minutes.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Three
8 minutes.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Three minutes. A hundred
10 million per minute.
11 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
12 concluded.)
13 *
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 12
June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of
2 Administration.
3 MR. HERNDON: Good morning.
4 Item Number 1 is approval of the minutes of
5 the meeting held June 8th, 1999.
6 TREASURER NELSON: I move the minutes.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 2 is approval of
11 a fiscal sufficiency in an amount not exceeding
12 thirty million five hundred thousand dollar
13 State of Florida, Department of
14 Management Services, Florida Facilities
15 Pool --
16 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
17 room.)
18 MR. HERNDON: -- Revenue Bond, Series
19 1999B.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move it.
21 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 3 is approval of
25 a fiscal sufficiency of an amount not exceeding
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 13
June 22, 1999
1 nine million two hundred and twenty thousand
2 dollars, State of Florida, Board of Regents,
3 Florida International University parking
4 facility revenue bonds, Series 1999.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move it.
6 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll second that.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 4 is a resolution
10 of the State Board approving the fiscal
11 sufficiency of an amount not exceeding
12 three hundred and fifty million dollars, State
13 of Florida, full faith and credit, State Board
14 of Education, Public Education Capital Outlay
15 Refunding Bonds, Series 1999, and the letter
16 will be designated later.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move it.
18 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 5 is approval of
22 a fiscal determination of amounts not exceeding
23 twelve million nine hundred and ninety-five
24 thousand dollar tax exempt, and three million
25 nine hundred and forty thousand dollar taxable
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 14
June 22, 1999
1 Florida Housing Finance Corporation Housing
2 Revenue Bonds, 1999 series, the letter to be
3 designated later, for Bernwood Trace
4 Apartments.
5 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 6 is approval of
10 a fiscal determination of amounts not exceeding
11 twelve million seven hundred thousand dollar
12 tax exempt, and two million one hundred and
13 fifty thousand dollar taxable Florida Housing
14 Finance Corporation Housing Revenue Bonds,
15 series 1999, letter to be designated later,
16 for Hampton Court.
17 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
18 room.)
19 TREASURER NELSON: As I understand it,
20 Items 5 through 16 relate to the Florida
21 Housing Finance Corporation.
22 Would a motion be in order for all of those
23 items?
24 MR. HERNDON: It certainly would be fine as
25 far as I'm concerned, Governor.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 15
June 22, 1999
1 TREASURER NELSON: Then I will -- I will
2 move --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: General, is that all right?
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: It's all right with
5 me. I -- I would like to note though that --
6 it is noteworthy that seven of those are,
7 in fact, being competitively bid, which is a
8 major step forward for that operation,
9 continues to be.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's true.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: There --
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I will second
13 your motion to move those Items 5 through --
14 TREASURER NELSON: Sixteen.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sixteen?
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- 16. All fiscal
17 determinations.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
19 second.
20 Without objection, they're all approved.
21 MR. HERNDON: Thank you.
22 Item Number 17 is an amendment to
23 Rule 19-7.013 to eliminate the requirement that
24 a confirmation line be included at the bottom
25 of the investment pool statements.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 16
June 22, 1999
1 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll move that.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- and I'll
3 second it, Tom.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. HERNDON: Thank you.
7 Item Number 18 is two proposed revisions to
8 the Florida Retirement System total fund
9 investment plan.
10 With your permission, I would like to
11 recommend that the second component of Item 18
12 be temporarily deferred, probably until the
13 fall meeting of the Advisory Council. There
14 were a number of questions on the risk budget,
15 and we want to do some additional research, and
16 provide that to them, and also meet with some
17 of you.
18 I know you've requested, Governor, your
19 office has requested some time to discuss that.
20 There's no time sensitivity to that aspect
21 of it.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah, I move the --
23 Item A -- Item 1. of 18, which is the Income
24 Asset Class -- Fixed Income Asset Class; and
25 defer Part 2.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 17
June 22, 1999
1 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 19 is a proposed
5 total fund investment plan for the
6 Chiles Tobacco Endowment Fund.
7 As you'll recall, members, we received at
8 the behest of the Governor's office -- well,
9 about to receive one point one billion dollars
10 on July 1st for investment in this long-term
11 perpetual endowment.
12 We proposed to the Advisory Council an
13 investment strategy after consultation with the
14 Legislature and the Governor's budget office
15 that contemplated 60 percent of that going into
16 equities, 35 percent to fixed income, 5 percent
17 to cash.
18 At the Advisory Council meeting last
19 Friday, there was considerable discussion
20 amongst the membership about -- essentially
21 about the equity share, whether or not
22 60 percent was too aggressive at this
23 particular time.
24 And we recognize, and we've outlined in the
25 materials that we've provided to all of the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 18
June 22, 1999
1 parties, that -- that the significant risk in
2 this program occurs in the first couple of
3 years, where if there's a substantial market
4 downturn, it has a very long-term effect, as
5 you get out 30 years and more.
6 The general sense of the Advisory Council
7 members was that perhaps a 50 percent equity
8 share will be more appropriate at -- at that
9 time.
10 It was not unanimous, but there was a good
11 bit of discussion on that subject. And I think
12 you'd have to say that the general sentiment of
13 the -- of the members, certainly the majority
14 of the members there, was -- was 50 percent.
15 I also know that there is an interest in
16 perhaps adopting an interim plan, if you will,
17 that might be available for a 60-day period in
18 light of the fact that the Board is not meeting
19 in July, during which time some additional work
20 could be done to try and give you further
21 insight into the appropriate equity share.
22 And for that reason, we've provided you --
23 and unfortunately, it was faxed down to the
24 offices this morning, and I apologize for it,
25 the lateness -- an alternative, which would
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 19
June 22, 1999
1 essentially say, here is a 60-day alternative
2 plan, which contemplates a 40 percent equity
3 share, 35 percent fixed income share, and
4 25 percent cash.
5 So that it remains highly liquid; would
6 allow us to make a second investment decision
7 in 60 days, or sooner, obviously, if that's the
8 pleasure of the Board; and we would have the
9 liquidity available in the cash to make that
10 decision if -- if that were preferable.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, if I --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I can make a
14 quick comment.
15 I -- I think that makes a lot more sense at
16 this time, to adopt a conservative plan for
17 60 days, give us a little more time.
18 I certainly share a lot of the concerns
19 that were expressed by the IAC members, and --
20 and there's probably even more that we need to
21 delve into than we -- than we did initially,
22 Tom.
23 And so I -- I think this is a good, firm
24 decision, at least to give them a plan to work
25 to, but limit it to 60 days. And it is
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 20
June 22, 1999
1 conservative, and I could certainly live with
2 it.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're -- you're referring
4 to the --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The 40 percent --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- 40 percent fixed
8 income, 35 percent cash equivalents,
9 25 percent.
10 TREASURER NELSON: How much for the next
11 60 days in this fund?
12 MR. HERNDON: Well, we're -- we're
13 anticipating getting a little over a
14 billion dollars on July 1st. So the
15 percentages would be roughly 400 million
16 equities at 40 percent, thirty -- three hundred
17 and fifty million --
18 TREASURER NELSON: I second.
19 MR. HERNDON: -- fixed income.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I -- I agree that --
21 ult-- I hope that ultimately we get to the
22 conservative targets, rather than the more
23 aggressive ones.
24 But I'm more than happy to talk about it.
25 I just think the -- the start-up of this fund,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 21
June 22, 1999
1 the risks are pretty high given the volatility
2 of the market right now, compared to the more
3 mature funds that --
4 MR. HERNDON: Right.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- y'all are investing.
6 So --
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You -- you really
8 are on the horns of a dilemma with the idea of
9 trying to preserve capital, and -- and at the
10 same time, maintain cash flow.
11 So it's a tough -- it is a -- it's on --
12 it's a little different than you normally deal
13 with, Tom. And --
14 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and I appreciate
16 the efforts of the SBA and the IAC to -- to
17 come to grips with it.
18 MR. HERNDON: A lot of very good discussion
19 on Friday by --
20 TREASURER NELSON: Would --
21 MR. HERNDON: -- the members.
22 TREASURER NELSON: -- would you convey our
23 appreciation to this Investment --
24 MR. HERNDON: Absolutely.
25 TREASURER NELSON: -- Advisory Committee?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 22
June 22, 1999
1 Because they spend a lot of time, don't they?
2 MR. HERNDON: They spent a lot of time.
3 They were there straight through lunch, till
4 about 2:30 in the afternoon. So it's a good
5 long day.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: We appreciate you listening
7 to them, too. Because they -- they know more
8 about this than -- than I do, and --
9 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- they know what they're
11 doing.
12 So the motion is to accept the --
13 MR. HERNDON: The Alternative 1 --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the alternative --
15 TREASURER NELSON: Yeah.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- which is a target of
17 40 percent for domestic equities, 35 percent
18 for fixed incomes, 25 percent for cash
19 equivalents, and review this in 60 days --
20 MR. HERNDON: That's correct.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- at the -- whatever it
22 would be, the September --
23 MR. HERNDON: Well, we would come back to
24 you -- we'll probably --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: August?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 23
June 22, 1999
1 MR. HERNDON: -- meet with Advisory Council
2 either on telephone conference, or in some
3 other fashion, between now and then, and then
4 come back to you in August. So probably the
5 end of August.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The IAC meets again
8 in --
9 MR. HERNDON: September.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- September, right?
11 MR. HERNDON: Right.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
14 second.
15 Any more discussion?
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. HERNDON: Finally, Item Number 20 is
18 the support -- reports by the
19 Executive Director for Investment Performance
20 and Fund Balance Analysis for the month of
21 April 1999.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move the report.
23 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, it's for
25 information anyway.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 24
June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. HERNDON: That completes the agenda.
4 Thank you.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
6 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
7 was concluded.)
8 *
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 25
June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Administration Commission.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 Good morning, Sandy.
8 MS. SARTIN: Good morning.
9 Item 2 is the request to transfer
10 general --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sandy, you want to move the
12 microphone down?
13 Thanks.
14 MS. SARTIN: Item 2 is a request to
15 transfer general revenue appropriations for the
16 Department of Banking and Finance.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MS. SARTIN: Items 3, 4, and 5, recommend
23 approval of transfer of general revenue for the
24 Department of Children and Families.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Move it.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 26
June 22, 1999
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move it.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MS. SARTIN: Items 6 and 7, recommend
8 approval of the transfers of general revenue
9 for Department of Corrections.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MS. SARTIN: Item 8, recommend approval of
16 transfer of general revenue for the Capital
17 Collateral Middle Regional Counsel.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move it.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MS. SARTIN: Item 9, recommend approval of
24 transfer of general revenue for the Department
25 of Law Enforcement.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 27
June 22, 1999
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move it.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MS. SARTIN: Items 10 and 11, recommend
7 approval of transfers of general revenue for
8 the Department of Management Services.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I move it.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MS. SARTIN: Item 12, recommend approval of
14 transfer of general revenue for the Department
15 of Military Affairs.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Move it.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MS. SARTIN: Item 13, recommend approval of
23 transfer of general revenue for the Department
24 of Veterans' Affairs.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 28
June 22, 1999
1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Move it.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MS. SARTIN: The following items will be
7 effective July 1 for the next fiscal year.
8 Item 14, recommend approval for the
9 Department of Banking and Finance to make
10 temporary transfers of trust funds from the
11 State Treasury to the general revenue fund.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MS. SARTIN: Items 15, 16, and 17,
18 recommend approval of transfers of general
19 revenue for the Department of Children and
20 Families.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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June 22, 1999
1 MS. SARTIN: Item 18, recommend approval of
2 transfer of general revenue for the Department
3 of Community Affairs.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MS. SARTIN: Item 19, recommend approval of
9 transfers of general revenue trust funds and
10 positions to implement the reorganization for
11 the Department of Environmental Protection,
12 Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, and
13 the Department of Agriculture and Consumer
14 Services.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second.
18 Y'all -- this is the implementation of the
19 constitutional -- it's a big deal.
20 No discussion?
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We'll spend
22 more time on it if you want to, Governor.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: No, no. That's fine. I
24 just want to make sure everybody -- it's, like,
25 six pages in my agenda. So --
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June 22, 1999
1 MS. SARTIN: Right.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MS. SARTIN: Item --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: A lot of good work has been
6 put into this in the Legislature, and a lot of
7 people, to make this fulfill the will of the
8 people.
9 MS. SARTIN: Item 20, recommend approval of
10 transfer of general revenue for the Department
11 of Juvenile Justice.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MS. SARTIN: Item 21, recommend approval of
17 transfers of general revenue trust funds and
18 positions to implement the reorganization of
19 the Juvenile Justice Accountability Board.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MS. SARTIN: Item 22, recommend approval of
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June 22, 1999
1 transfer of general revenue for the Department
2 of Juvenile Justice.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MS. SARTIN: Item 23, recommend approval of
8 transfer of general revenue for the Department
9 of Law Enforcement.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MS. SARTIN: Item 24, recommend approval of
16 transfer of general revenue for the Department
17 of Management Services.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MS. SARTIN: Item 25, recommend approval
24 for the Department of Revenue to make temporary
25 transfers of the trust funds from the
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June 22, 1999
1 State Treasury.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a sec--
5 Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MS. SARTIN: Item 26, recommend approval of
8 transfer of general revenue for the Department
9 of State.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MS. SARTIN: Item 27, recommend approval
15 for the Department of Environmental Protection
16 to make temporary transfers from DEP's
17 trust funds in the State Treasury.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MS. SARTIN: And Teresa Tinker will cover
24 the remaining items on the agenda.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Sandy.
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June 22, 1999
1 MS. SARTIN: Thank you.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Teresa, what have we got
3 going?
4 MS. TINKER: Items 28 and 29 deal with the
5 Florida Keys Area of Critical State Concern,
6 and I recommend that we take those together.
7 Item 28 requests approval of changes to the
8 Monroe County Comprehensive Plan adopted in
9 Rule 28-20.
10 Item 29 requests approval of amendments to
11 the Village of Islamorada's Comprehensive Plan
12 adopted in Rule 28-19.
13 We have several speakers for this item this
14 morning.
15 The first speaker is Charles Pattison,
16 representing 1000 Friends of Florida.
17 MR. PATTISON: Governor, members of the
18 Cabinet, thank you for the opportunity to
19 comment on the Keys rule.
20 I stand before you in a position of
21 amazement, I guess. We are very much pleased
22 with the rule as it's been proposed. There
23 were several issues that we commented on at
24 workshops. We also submitted written material.
25 I understand you will get a technical
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June 22, 1999
1 amendment that addresses one of our issues
2 concerning nutrient credits, and how
3 appropriately they may or may not be considered
4 in the future.
5 I must share with you though some concerns,
6 and this was something that your staff did an
7 excellent job, as did the Secretary, in trying
8 to work out a compromise on how you would
9 readdress the issue of substantial progress,
10 and rewarding the County for doing better work.
11 That's an incentive. Clearly that's a good
12 idea. That leaves some discretion -- a fair
13 amount of discretion with you. And I think you
14 will hear from some other speakers that there
15 is concern that that be very judiciously used,
16 that our concern is that in the past,
17 "substantial progress" is somewhat hard to
18 define.
19 And we would hope that the Cabinet, in
20 particular, would be very cautious in granting
21 increases.
22 What the current proposal says is that you
23 would be allowed discretion to grant or regrant
24 those permits that were possibly lost in the
25 past.
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June 22, 1999
1 Other than that though, I would very much
2 like to compliment your staff, the
3 County Commission. They did an excellent job,
4 and we're pleased.
5 Thank you.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Charles.
7 Commissioner Nelson.
8 TREASURER NELSON: I'm -- I'm interested in
9 your comment that this proposal gives us
10 discretion. I see it exactly the opposite. It
11 looks like the area that you're talking about
12 with regard to substantial progress does
13 exactly the opposite, it takes discretion away
14 from this Administration Commission.
15 Because the language in there says: If the
16 Commission determines that substantial progress
17 has been made, then the Commission shall
18 increase the unit cap for any new residential
19 development for the following year, up to a
20 maximum of 227 units.
21 The word "shall" is a mandatory word to me.
22 MR. PATTISON: Yes, sir.
23 TREASURER NELSON: So I'd like your comment
24 on that.
25 MR. PATTISON: We had supported the
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June 22, 1999
1 original language, which had used "may." We
2 understood that the JAPC review of the proposed
3 rule suggested that that was not an appropriate
4 term, and that the "shall" was inserted at
5 their recommendation.
6 Where the discretion is that -- to be
7 honest, I had not seen before, was this phrase
8 at the end that suggests that the
9 Administration Commission has the authority to
10 look at granting up to a maximum of the permit
11 cap as it presently exists.
12 The way I was looking at that in a
13 different light then is that if the current
14 permit number is 182, as it is today, and you
15 found substantial progress in a subsequent
16 year, the cap would be the maximum, which is
17 currently 227.
18 But given that term "up to," I was reading
19 that judiciously, I guess you could grant
20 one permit, two permits, ten permits using your
21 discretion to determine what that substantial
22 progress clause really meant in the scope of
23 the overall work program.
24 Now, I have to tell you that we're
25 concerned that that would be, just as you
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June 22, 1999
1 suggested, an automatic 20 percent increase.
2 And I don't think that that's necessarily
3 what should be the result that I think you
4 should evaluate and be in a position to
5 evaluate, and not be forced into a mandatory
6 20 percent blanket increase.
7 So I struggled with that. To be honest,
8 our organization very much wanted to support
9 the discretion that -- as you suggested, but we
10 were under the impression that the Joint
11 Administrative Procedures Committee sugg-- had
12 said that that was not an appropriate rule
13 provision.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Teresa, you want to --
15 MR. PATTISON: Thank you.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- confirm, verify, add --
17 MS. TINKER: Well, we have --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- subtract?
19 MS. TINKER: -- we do have some other
20 speakers that will speak to that very issue.
21 But it is true that in March when the rule
22 was originally brought to the Commission, and
23 you made the determination of substantial
24 progress not being made, you required the
25 reduction in the rate of growth of 20 percent,
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June 22, 1999
1 and you directed staff to go off and try to
2 work on a rule with the County and others that
3 would be more realistic.
4 That was an issue that Secretary Seibert
5 brought to you that day in March, that if we're
6 going to cut the rate of growth, we need to
7 provide a way of raising the rate of growth if
8 we do the things that we're required to do,
9 because we're not trying to impose -- we're not
10 trying to get down to a zero rate of growth
11 through this rule. We're really trying to
12 address the environmental concerns that we have
13 out there.
14 So from that point in time, we worked on
15 and massaged language regarding how you would
16 raise that cap -- or actually the number of
17 permits back to a cap, if you determined that
18 progress was being made, and we were addressing
19 the issues that we're required to address.
20 Originally we used the word "shall." There
21 were concerns raised about that. We took it
22 out, and we replaced it with "may." The Joint
23 Administrative Procedures Committee said --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: What's the difference
25 between "shall" and "may?"
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1 MS. TINKER: "Shall" -- "may" is
2 discretionary. The Joint Administrative
3 Procedures --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Shall require --
5 MS. TINKER: -- Committee said that that
6 gave the Commission too much discretion. You
7 had to be very clear in the rulemaking process
8 what your intent was.
9 So we changed it back to "shall," with the
10 permits being raised up to a maximum so that
11 you have a lot of discretion in how many
12 permits you provide back, but you will provide
13 permits back if you determine that substantial
14 progress has been made.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: But you still don't have to
16 determine whether there's substantial progress.
17 So it's either zero or up to the --
18 MS. TINKER: Well, you -- you do have to
19 make a determination of substantial --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, my --
21 MS. TINKER: -- progress.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we still --
23 MS. TINKER: And if you --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- have the --
25 MS. TINKER: -- determine --
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June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- flexibility, is what I'm
2 saying, to --
3 MS. TINKER: Uh-hum.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- to say no substantial
5 progress has been made. We have that
6 flexibility to make that determination.
7 MS. TINKER: That's correct.
8 But if you make that determination, then
9 the permits are reduced. They're automatically
10 reduced by 20 percent.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
13 TREASURER NELSON: And --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah, Katherine.
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: Teresa, I just --
16 MS. TINKER: Yes, ma'am.
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- have a ques--
18 I guess -- but in the Legislature, we used
19 to say "may" all the time. But I suppose in
20 rulemaking it's different, "may" versus
21 "shall."
22 But it seems that you've given us the same
23 amount of discretion when you say up to
24 227 units. We can say one unit or two units.
25 But since you have that automatic negative
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June 22, 1999
1 incentive, my understanding is you have the
2 positive incentive, too, because the -- this
3 whole situation is designed to impact the
4 environment, and -- and improve it. And once
5 that has occurred, it's not supposed to be a
6 punitive type of scenario; is that -- is that
7 correct?
8 MS. TINKER: That's correct.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner?
10 TREASURER NELSON: Are you saying that
11 technically, it would be defective if the word
12 "may" instead of "shall" was used?
13 MS. TINKER: Yes, sir. We proposed that to
14 the Joint Administrative Procedures Committee
15 under Chapter 120, and they provided comments
16 back to us saying that they would recommend an
17 objection to the rule if we continued to use
18 the word "may."
19 We either had to change it to "shall," or
20 we had to provide specific criteria within the
21 rule for when you would increase it.
22 You're not allowed to use discretionary
23 terms in 120 proceedings.
24 TREASURER NELSON: What would be the effect
25 of not having that particular sentence in the
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June 22, 1999
1 rule at all?
2 MS. TINKER: That sentence is not in the
3 rule today. And that really created a debate
4 as to whether or not the Commission would have
5 the authority to increase the permits if you
6 determined that things were going along the way
7 we -- it was intended.
8 My personal belief is that you have that
9 authority, and you've always had that
10 authority.
11 There are others who disagree with that.
12 So we wanted to make it very clear that if --
13 if you make a determination of substantial
14 progress, this is what will happen.
15 If you make a determination that
16 substantial progress has not been made, this is
17 what will happen. So that everybody is on the
18 same, you know, playing field in terms of the
19 intent and the interpretation of the rule.
20 I'd also like to add that this sentence
21 really went a long way to getting the buy-in
22 from the local community, from the
23 Contractors Association. And we have a couple
24 of folks from that association here to speak
25 today.
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June 22, 1999
1 And instead of being here to speak in
2 opposition to the rule, I think you'll hear
3 that they -- while they don't love it,
4 they're -- they're willing to, you know,
5 support it and see if we can make some progress
6 over the next year.
7 So I -- I really firmly believe that this
8 is an important part of the rule, it was an
9 important part of our negotiations, and I would
10 recommend that the sentence stay.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, should we hear
12 from -- any additional comments,
13 Commissioner Nelson?
14 Shall we hear from --
15 TREASURER NELSON: Oh, absolutely.
16 MS. TINKER: The next speaker is
17 Richard Grosso, representing Environmental
18 Defense Fund.
19 MR. GROSSO: Thank you.
20 Good morning --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome back.
22 MR. GROSSO: -- Governor, members of the
23 Cabinet. Thank you.
24 I am Richard Grosso. I represent actually
25 the Florida Keys Environmental Fund, the
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June 22, 1999
1 Izaak Walton League of the Florida Keys, Save
2 our Keys, Save our Waters, Big Pine Key Civic
3 Association, and the Key Deer Protection
4 Alliance, among others.
5 Thank you.
6 I need to say first, off the bat, that in
7 my 13 years of working on land use and
8 environmental issues at the State and regional
9 and local level, I have never seen anything
10 close to the level of intelligence, thoughtful
11 detail, knowledge of the substance that DCA
12 staff and your staff have exhibited for the
13 last three, four years --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're on video --
15 MR. GROSSO: -- on --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- and on record here, by
17 the -- when you said that.
18 MR. GROSSO: I know that I am on record.
19 But it's true. I tend to work only on big
20 picture, hard, difficult issues. And that has
21 to be said.
22 I don't want to -- to be clear that that's
23 the way we feel. And it's our role to always
24 push, because we have no option but to err on
25 the side of caution with the Florida Keys. We
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June 22, 1999
1 may be running out of time, land, and -- and
2 water resources in the Keys. That's why we
3 have to do the absolute maximum we can.
4 So we support the staff proposal in front
5 of you, but share very strongly the concern
6 that -- that Charles Pattison has just raised
7 to you.
8 You've taken away, we think, your
9 discretion next year. You either have to
10 increase the permits, or you have to decrease
11 them. We're very concerned that's going to set
12 up a real push and pull -- somebody's going to
13 win big or somebody's going to lose big --
14 political fight next year.
15 As Teresa told you, you have the discretion
16 to decide what to do if you don't have the
17 sentence there that says you shall increase.
18 So we would certainly suggest: Delete that
19 language, leave yourself that discretion. And
20 then next year, depending on exactly how much
21 progress has been made on this workplan that
22 we've so carefully crafted over these years,
23 then you'll decide if an increase is really
24 warranted, or if a decrease is warranted, or
25 maybe we should just hold the line for a year,
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June 22, 1999
1 not change the rate of growth, keep a steady
2 state.
3 We would ask you to maintain that
4 discretion for yourself, and not box yourself
5 in, because we must always err on the side of
6 caution in the Florida Keys. We continue to
7 lose lands that cannot get -- we cannot get
8 back. We continue to exacerbate a water
9 quality situation there.
10 Despite our best efforts. What this plan
11 is doing, for a large extent, is buying us time
12 until we finish the carrying capacity study and
13 the wastewater and the storm water master
14 plans, which your staffs have been intricately
15 involved in helping us get off the ground.
16 So we ask you to make that change, but
17 we -- we do stand in support of the staff's
18 great efforts.
19 And be happy to answer any questions.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Now, which change?
21 MR. GROSSO: The change that we would ask
22 would be to delete -- simply delete the
23 sentence that says you shall increase the
24 permits if you find that substantial progress
25 has been made.
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June 22, 1999
1 And we will point out that it's not that
2 you have to complete all the tasks. It's just
3 that if substantial progress has been made.
4 We'd be very concerned that after two years
5 of insubstantial progress, we now put a
6 sentence in that mandates an increase in
7 permits if there's one year of substantial
8 progress. And that's a -- already kind of a
9 vague term that has to be defined.
10 So that's why we would make that request,
11 simply to delete that sentence.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: I really appreciate your
14 erring on the side of caution. I'm a native
15 from Key West, so I've seen a lot of changes.
16 And -- and I can appreciate that.
17 But I guess my concern in just listening to
18 the staff and trying to understand is is
19 that -- is that automatic mandate if we don't
20 determine substantial progress has been made,
21 and that will be a decrease and another
22 20 percent. So now it's going to be a
23 40 percent decrease to get us -- trying to get
24 us squared away environmentally.
25 However, my concern is to try to work with
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June 22, 1999
1 the community. And usually if everybody feels
2 like they didn't get everything they want,
3 sometimes that -- that can be a good
4 negotiation, it all depends.
5 But if -- and if additional increase, if we
6 determine that substantial progress has been
7 made, to -- to get the community support
8 buy-in, it -- it might only -- my concern is
9 that some people don't feel -- I -- it's my
10 understanding that we really do have that
11 discretion if we determine that substantial
12 progress is made, that we can suggest an
13 increase.
14 But at least it's -- we do have clear
15 language that says it's going to be an
16 automatic 20 percent decrease. I don't know
17 what would be a big problem in having the clear
18 language that says we have the discretion up to
19 227 units, which means we could recommend only
20 one, if -- if we wanted.
21 I mean, it just seems to be a balance in
22 the statutes, and -- and it would -- you know,
23 it seems to be a net effect that -- that
24 everybody could support that.
25 MR. GROSSO: And we clearly understand that
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June 22, 1999
1 perspective. The -- the reason that the rule
2 has been structured for the last three years
3 the way it has been was a decision, I think, by
4 the previous Cabinet that set this plan into
5 place, that they had before them an option to
6 severely cut the rate of growth, and they
7 decided not to do that out of a concern to
8 bring everybody on board.
9 And -- but they did say, we're going to
10 have to hold the feet to the fire of the County
11 and other agencies that are doing these things.
12 So we have to make sure that if we don't do
13 everything, we're going to cut the rate of
14 growth so that we keep the status quo from
15 getting worse.
16 That was the reason for that. We think
17 there's a compelling environmental reason for
18 that, don't think that there's as much of a
19 compelling reason to require that you increase
20 the rate of growth.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If I may,
22 Governor --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: General.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- real quickly.
25 You know, clearly before the intent and --
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June 22, 1999
1 and maybe that's what we ought to talk about is
2 intent. The intent was to -- to punish, if
3 there wasn't success; and there ought to be the
4 intent to reward if there is success.
5 And in many respects, I -- I believe that
6 this statement is more an indication of the
7 intent of -- of the Governor and Cabinet if
8 there -- if they are successful in pursuing --
9 resolving some of the problems that they face.
10 MR. GROSSO: Let me just say that we fully
11 understand why staff has suggested this, and we
12 understand the pressure --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You accept --
14 MR. GROSSO: -- of --
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- the idea of
16 intent then.
17 MR. GROSSO: And -- I'm sorry?
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You accept the --
19 the concept of intent.
20 MR. GROSSO: And we accept the concept of
21 intent. We would live with this if you don't
22 make the change, we will work with staff to
23 make sure that this is carried out well.
24 But we do think if it's -- it's the much
25 wiser course of action to just delete that
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June 22, 1999
1 sentence and leave yourself the options next
2 time.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
4 MR. GROSSO: Thank you.
5 MS. TINKER: The next speaker is
6 Bill Smith. Mr. Smith rep-- is the President
7 of the Contractors Association in the Keys.
8 MR. SMITH: Governor Bush, members of the
9 Commission, thank you.
10 For the record, my name is Bill Smith. I'm
11 the Executive Director of the Contractors
12 Association. I do have with me the President,
13 Bob Cayce as well. But he -- he will not be
14 speaking. He's there just to give me support
15 if I should fall down.
16 I would like to express our appreciation to
17 your staff for having provided us the
18 opportunity to voice our views and comments at
19 a much earlier stage than we have been afforded
20 in the past.
21 We know that we brought to the table some
22 major valid concerns that never would have seen
23 the light of day without our participation.
24 Your staff heard us, and attempted to
25 address our concerns.
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June 22, 1999
1 The really first and most important concern
2 was the language that has to do with the
3 ability to increase the rate of growth should
4 we in Monroe County meet your requirements for
5 substantial progress.
6 And it went a major way -- it went a long
7 ways towards counting the fares of not only the
8 members of the Contractors Association, but the
9 citizens of Monroe County, in creating a
10 fairness that the rule did not have up until
11 that passage has been put into it.
12 So I would encourage you to keep that
13 language in the rule.
14 Your staff took very little time in
15 convincing us that this rule is much better
16 than the rule that we had been faced with
17 before. And we do agree with that.
18 To say that the previous version of the
19 rule was too ambitious is a monumental
20 understanding -- understatement by any
21 standards. The staff devoted more time trying
22 to convince us that it's a good rule. We quite
23 can't go that far.
24 We have major concerns, and history
25 indicates that we have good reason. In the
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June 22, 1999
1 past we have only -- we have been the only
2 industry that has been punished for
3 unsuccessful completion of any parts of the
4 rule, and this rule is no exc-- no different.
5 Our concerns are highlighted with the
6 one-for-one cesspit replacement requirement to
7 build a new single family home; the time
8 restraints for various items to be completed
9 and a workplan that is still too ambitious; the
10 concerns that governmental agencies cannot
11 provide adequate support for various reasons,
12 like underfunding, understaff, lack of, or an
13 in-- yeah -- inadequate contingency plan for
14 unforeseen events.
15 History indicates that all these concerns
16 are very real possibilities that could be a
17 crushing blow to a construction industry that
18 is already in peril.
19 With all of our concerns, and with all of
20 the abuse that we have endured, the F-- the
21 Florida Keys Contractors Association will
22 continue, as we have in the past, to do
23 whatever we can to protect our environment, and
24 support the replacement of cesspits in
25 Monroe County.
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 54
June 22, 1999
1 We would like to submit to you,
2 Governor Bush, and members of the Commission,
3 and your staff, a preliminary plan which has
4 been handed to you that could identify a better
5 course of action to deal with this issue.
6 We understand it is too late for serious
7 consideration at this late date, but we'd like
8 a response from staff on its merits for future
9 consideration.
10 Thank you for taking the time to listen to
11 our concerns.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mr. Smith.
13 MR. SMITH: Thank you.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
15 MS. TINKER: Next speaker is Steve Henson,
16 a contractor from the Keys.
17 MR. HENSON: Governor Bush, members of the
18 Commission, I've never done this before, so
19 forgive me if I get a little bit nervous about
20 it.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Don't worry about it.
22 You're --
23 MR. HENSON: But --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I've not done --
25 MR. HENSON: -- I'm here with --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 55
June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- this before either,
2 so --
3 MR. HENSON: There you go.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we're in the same boat.
5 MR. HENSON: -- Don Luning said to say hi.
6 I'd like to introduce myself. I'm one of
7 four of a contingent that came up here. We
8 felt it was important enough to be here today
9 before you.
10 I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a
11 Monroe County engineering contractor. I'm also
12 a registered Florida excavation and utilities
13 contractor, I'm a certified general contractor.
14 Even though I've never built a house for
15 money, I look around, and I -- you know, I
16 realize that dollars go around. The economy of
17 this state and the Keys, whether it be Key West
18 or the Keys, revolves around making sure that
19 everybody makes a living, raises their family,
20 and has some relief from the obstacles that
21 sometimes unfortunately government throw before
22 us.
23 I'm wearing two hats today. Yes, I'm a
24 contractor, I make my living as an engineering
25 contractor. But I'm also a taxpayer and a
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 56
June 22, 1999
1 father.
2 I want to relate to you that my son, we
3 are -- we're a member of a family that's been
4 in Key West for eight generations. I know
5 Katherine Harris can appreciate what a conch's
6 all about. I really don't know exactly what
7 that means, but I know I'm proud of it.
8 A lot of people say us conchs are --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: A great line.
10 MR. HENSON: -- quite different. Quite
11 different. I can't -- I can't completely
12 disagree. You have to be quite -- quite
13 different to stay in a place like Key West.
14 It's paradise in one hand; and it's like most
15 paradises, it's -- it's a lot of work to keep
16 it that way.
17 My son's been trying to build a house for a
18 year-and-a-half. I think that's the American
19 dream, to have a house and have a family. He's
20 married, and he's got three kids.
21 I hope to have him stay in Key West, and
22 not join the many thousands of people that have
23 left Key West, not just from the last hurricane
24 where we lost 6 percent of our population, but
25 from the flight -- I call it the flight of
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 57
June 22, 1999
1 people from the Keys, because of regulation,
2 because of the cost of housing; many things,
3 many obstacles that living in paradise bring
4 upon us.
5 Something's wrong with that when your
6 family and your kids can't live where they want
7 to live with their family. He's hanging in
8 there. Fortunately, he has a good living -- he
9 makes a good living.
10 He's not as passive as I. He -- he doesn't
11 feel that some of this regulation is fair. He
12 has a permit waiting for pickup. It's being
13 held up because we have a cesspit problem.
14 We're linking these cesspits, which are the
15 problems of the past, to the new construction.
16 I want you, just for a second -- I want to
17 allude to something I think would be a little
18 bit closer to home.
19 What the contractors -- and I wear a
20 contractor's hat now -- I brought my hat, but
21 I'm not going to wear it.
22 What the contractors are facing here,
23 Governor, and members of the Commission, if you
24 were to take the State of Florida's budget of
25 52 billion dollars, something like that, and
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 58
June 22, 1999
1 you were to take that, and in one fatal swoop,
2 you would cut it from 52 billion down to, say,
3 15 billion in one year.
4 I want you to get a good picture of that,
5 because that's exactly what's happened to the
6 contractors in Monroe County. We've taken
7 900 permits at our peak -- some say 1100, but
8 just say 900 for figuring purposes. We've cut
9 it to 255. Two fifty-five, because we felt
10 that that was a sustainable limit to population
11 growth in the Keys without further damaging an
12 already damaged environment.
13 The following year -- not the following
14 year, but most recently, we've cut our permits
15 from 255, down to 88. Remember, we still have
16 to do some things in order to get a few more
17 permits.
18 That's like cutting your budget from 15 to
19 5 billion dollars. Could the State of Florida,
20 even though you had the -- pulled a magic trick
21 off of having a budget surplus -- and I commend
22 you for that. Thank God. You need to save
23 money, because I'm here to ask you for some
24 money.
25 But contractors are standing on a cliff.
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 59
June 22, 1999
1 We're looking down, and we see all these people
2 standing down there, and they're
3 environmentalists, and I've got mine -- and
4 I've got my house and my check's coming by
5 e-mail. I don't even need the mail anymore.
6 And then behind us, God rest all of us, but
7 we have the bureaucrats. And I don't say that
8 wrongly, because I sit on a contractors
9 examining board with the County, and I'm proud
10 of that. It's a job we need to do. And I
11 admire you for doing your job.
12 But they say, hey, the golden parachute's
13 coming, we've got some money for you. Well,
14 the County contract's saying, where's it at?
15 You know? Talk is cheap. Where's the check?
16 And they're saying jump. Jump over the
17 cliff. We'll be right there.
18 Well, buddy, we got a 10 second fall, and
19 you guys, taking a year to get us some money.
20 What we're facing is an untenable situation
21 where you're taking away our livelihood, you're
22 not allowing us to work within the parameters
23 that were determined many years ago, that -- we
24 determined that 255 was a sustainable rate of
25 growth.
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 60
June 22, 1999
1 And now we're punishing us like little
2 children because we're poor. We don't have
3 enough money to institute the plan that we all
4 agree we need to institute.
5 We recognize that we have a problem. Yet
6 we're still -- we're still penalizing the
7 public, and us contractors, and the taxpayers.
8 Because, remember, when there's no growth, the
9 tax base is diminishing, we've got less tax
10 base, less tax money, somebody has to pay. The
11 taxpayers of Monroe County are paying the bill.
12 We're confiscating land, we're taking it
13 off the tax rolls, we're being hammered by
14 every direction, and then we have this little
15 buddy of ours, Georges comes along, and bashes
16 us over the head.
17 We're a state of national disaster here,
18 and yet we sit today discussing how we're going
19 to penalize the citizens and contractors of
20 Monroe County further.
21 What we're seeing here, I want to -- I want
22 to express it the only way I can see it -- say
23 it. We're seeing here legal genocide. We're
24 seeing ethnic cleansing.
25 Now, Milosevic, he's out there doing ethnic
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 61
June 22, 1999
1 cleansing. We're doing it a different way.
2 We're not using a weapon or machete. We're
3 using an economic weapon. We can destroy a
4 community just as fast with economic rules and
5 regulations as we can with a gun.
6 Look at Russia. No money, no tickee, no
7 laundry.
8 Monroe County, we are different, but I'm
9 going to tell you, we're hardworking people,
10 we're very independent people, and the last
11 thing we want to do is ask you for money.
12 But the bottom line is, there is a --
13 there's something we have to do, and it's going
14 to take some money.
15 I'm going to summarize this and say, there
16 is something that can be done. My dad said, if
17 I'm going to come up here and whine, I better
18 damn sure have a solution. So I'm going to try
19 and do the best I can with a solution.
20 We need adequate time to institute a plan
21 that we all agree is necessary. We're not
22 arguing with you. We've -- we're -- we're
23 sinners in the past, too. But we're ready to
24 fix the problem. Make no mistake, you have our
25 commitment and our word.
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 62
June 22, 1999
1 We need to unlink cesspit credits for new
2 construction. New construction must adhere to
3 the highest wastewater treatment standards in
4 the country. We know that, and we're willing
5 to do it. The technology is there. It takes
6 money and resolve.
7 Unlink the cesspit credits, let us build
8 what you considered, and what all of us agreed,
9 was a sanable growth, 255 permits.
10 Heard us talking about shall and may. Mere
11 legal talk. Bottom line is, you're the boss,
12 you all call the shots, we trust your decision,
13 whether you leave shall in there, or you put
14 may in there. If we do our job, we want a
15 carrot; if we don't do our job, we've been beat
16 before, we can take it.
17 We need time to fully implement this plan.
18 And finally, but -- last, but not least, we
19 need funding. This little county cannot afford
20 500 million dollars to pay for this problem.
21 I heard Mr. Davidson -- I forget what
22 environmental group he's with -- I listened to
23 him, and all of a sudden he said something that
24 made a lot of sense.
25 He says, you know, Steve, this is not your
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 63
June 22, 1999
1 stuff. In 1976, the Corps of Engineers,
2 United States of America took this and made it
3 a part of the -- the people of the
4 United States of America. It's not your stuff.
5 You conchs don't run the water and take
6 care of the -- the land. He was right.
7 But, you know what, it's not our stuff, yet
8 we're being asked to pay for it.
9 And we're asking you to consider trying to
10 work with us in two ways: One, we need your
11 help, we need to support the rule, we need to
12 have the carrot, something -- give us for our
13 good work.
14 It's not our stuff, the taxpayer needs to
15 help us deal with this, just like they're
16 dealing with the Everglades. That's not my
17 stuff, Federal Government's helping us. It's
18 not all your game, it's not all your stuff.
19 It's the taxpayers'.
20 Few people ever get to make a decision,
21 whether you're in politics or in government or
22 whatever. Few people ever really make -- get
23 the chance to make a decision that's going to
24 affect their kids and grandkids and their
25 grandkids throughout the future.
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 64
June 22, 1999
1 Today I think you have that chance.
2 You have the capacity to -- to put aside
3 the mistakes of the past, the petty politics,
4 make a decision, support us. This isn't really
5 about developers, environmentalists,
6 contractors, or taxpayers. It's about saving
7 one of the most important natural resources in
8 the world.
9 If, indeed, the Keys are a natural
10 resource, a natural treasure, we need to -- we
11 need your help. We need you to help us pay for
12 this. Hopefully you might even take some of
13 that budget surplus and give us a little bit,
14 help jump-start us.
15 It's not a bad use of the money.
16 I think with a little resolve working
17 together, we can put this -- put this aside
18 before the millennium. That would be a great
19 way to finish the second millennium.
20 I want to thank you for your time --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
22 MR. HENSON: -- your consideration, and
23 hope that we'll move on to bigger and better
24 things.
25 Thank you.
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 65
June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
2 MS. TINKER: One last speaker,
3 Nora Williams, Monroe County Commissioner.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Nora, you got all dressed
5 up for us today, those shoes.
6 MS. WILLIAMS: There's only so far out of
7 the Keys I'm able to get.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: She's great. She's
9 great.
10 MS. WILLIAMS: Good morning.
11 I'm Nora Williams, and I'm the Land Use
12 Facilitator from Monroe County. It is a
13 genuine pleasure to appear before you today.
14 I'm going to take 1 second of indulgence to
15 apologize to the Cabinet Aides for missing last
16 week. Water Quality Steering Committee was
17 meeting, and I basically had them all trapped
18 in a room to commit to different parts of your
19 three of the workplan.
20 I bagged you, but it was not out of
21 disrespect, it was out of sincere disrespect
22 for the rule. And I appreciate your indulgence
23 on that.
24 I stand before you to represent
25 Monroe County's commitment to, and support of,
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 66
June 22, 1999
1 the proposed rule.
2 While we await with some trepidation your
3 decision today, we are already hard at work.
4 We're moving ahead with the EPA on the required
5 cost benefit analysis, and at the meeting last
6 week I just spoke of with every involved
7 agency, we divided the tasks of the next year
8 among us, with an incredibly positive spirit
9 that this is a reasonable rule, and we can make
10 progress.
11 And, frankly, there's been built a
12 tremendous consensus in the community about the
13 rule that stands before you.
14 We know at the very least, it's a
15 remarkable improvement over the last one, and
16 we think it's one we can actually do.
17 So I am filled with joy and hope and
18 commitment, and I am anxious to take off today
19 to Washington to continue working on the
20 Federal funding efforts. And I am anxious to
21 get back home to work on the many other tasks
22 of this rule with my fellow commissioners.
23 So I'm going to be incredibly quick with
24 you today, with only three requests: One,
25 please avoid changing the language, if you can.
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 67
June 22, 1999
1 Think of this document as like a fine
2 classical symphony, for a change in even one
3 note can diminish its majesty.
4 Don't mess with the consensus we have.
5 We need the carrot, we have had the stick.
6 But, please, if you can avoid changing the
7 language, it would be immensely appreciated.
8 All of you know, because of your political
9 careers, how fragile a thing consensus is.
10 Leave us to go back home with a community
11 that's able to step together without bitterness
12 that they lost something essential today. We
13 have that with the rule you see before you.
14 Secondly, I will follow Steve's remarks on
15 the money. There's a lot, a whole lot,
16 associated with this rule. And with all the
17 commitment of the County and the State
18 combined, there are aspects of it that are
19 simply going to take a whole lot of money.
20 I would like to thank the Governor this
21 morning for his help with us in sending letters
22 to our senators, who we have been having a very
23 tough time getting off a dime. Your letters
24 were tremendously helpful, and the support was
25 much appreciated.
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June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think they're still
2 off -- on the -- on the dime though. So you --
3 MS. WILLIAMS: Well, they are. They are.
4 But this week --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Phase II though is to get
6 this priced out, and to build a consensus about
7 how we proceed to -- to invest this money, and
8 then we go to them as partners, I think. Until
9 we get that done, save your money --
10 MS. WILLIAMS: And, frankly --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- on that airfare, go back
12 to the Keys.
13 MS. WILLIAMS: -- there's been -- they've
14 been very straightforward with me this past
15 week about what they're looking for from
16 Monroe County to feel that they can trust us to
17 come up with our commitment. And, admittedly,
18 for all of us, given the history, certain
19 amount of concern and fear on that level is not
20 completely unwarranted.
21 We're basically working to show them the
22 bonding mechanism we can set in place through
23 the hookup and monthly fees. I think we're
24 going to get this done. Whether it'll be this
25 legislative season or not remains to be seen.
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June 22, 1999
1 But I do feel very, very strongly. Any
2 unclaimed money that passes your way, think of
3 it as ours. Every day you wake up, think
4 about: What can I do to help Monroe County
5 with funding today.
6 Last, but not least --
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: Isn't she great?
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jerry Lewis Telethon.
9 MS. WILLIAMS: -- I want to ask you today:
10 Please, pass this rule. We're with you, we're
11 committed, and we're moving forward.
12 And with the charming national press our
13 water quality problems are currently receiving,
14 we're going to succeed this time. We really
15 are. We're getting a lot of people watching us
16 right now.
17 Thank you for all your care and concern on
18 these issues, thank you for all your help. And
19 next year when I come back here to talk to you
20 about what we've done in year three, it'll be
21 to tell you, we succeeded.
22 Thank you.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Commissioner.
24 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: I said, thank you.
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June 22, 1999
1 MS. WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you.
2 MS. TINKER: That concludes the speakers.
3 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I -- I move
4 the item --
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
6 TREASURER NELSON: -- the staff
7 recommendation.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and -- and
10 a second.
11 Any discussion? We've had a little bit
12 already.
13 This is -- from my perspective, this is
14 very exciting that we're moving towards -- not
15 there yet -- but moving towards a spirit of
16 complete cooperation.
17 And I would like to brag on Teresa and
18 Steve Seibert, and the Monroe County folks from
19 all different spectrum sides of this issue
20 to -- that they've worked together in such a
21 way that I'm not -- I've been Governor for just
22 about 100 days. I don't know how long -- it
23 seems like 100 years sometimes.
24 But I don't think there's been many
25 meetings related to Monroe County where there's
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 71
June 22, 1999
1 been this kind of consensus built from the
2 ground up.
3 So I think this is historic, and I'm very
4 excited about it.
5 So there's a motion and second.
6 Any discussion?
7 Without hearing any, it -- it is approved.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Is that
9 28 --
10 MS. TINKER: Thank you, Governor.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- and 29,
12 Governor?
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Was that --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well --
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- 28 and 29?
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Islamorada's the same?
17 MS. TINKER: Yes, sir. We -- you just
18 moved both the items together.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Is that all right?
20 Very good.
21 MS. TINKER: Okay. Last item, Number 30 on
22 the Administration Commission agenda, request
23 authorization to enter the second draft final
24 order finding the Collier County
25 Comprehensive Plan EAR-based amendments not in
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 72
June 22, 1999
1 compliance.
2 We have several speakers on this issue as
3 well.
4 We have asked the speakers to limit their
5 time.
6 The first speaker is Secretary Seibert from
7 the Department of Community Affairs.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
9 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- I'm going to abstain
11 from this vote.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excuse me?
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: I need to abstain from
14 this vote when you call for the question.
15 MR. SEIBERT: Governor, members of the
16 Cabinet, good morning.
17 I'd like you to think of this final order
18 as a fine classical symphony.
19 MS. TINKER: Do we get the hook?
20 MR. SEIBERT: It -- it worked for the last
21 speaker. I --
22 The Department of Community Affairs
23 supports this final order, and urges your
24 adoption of it. Let me say: This is a
25 delicate balancing act. We are all recognizing
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 73
June 22, 1999
1 a hearing officer's recommendations and
2 findings. He has found certain inadequacies in
3 the local comp plan. No one contested those --
4 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
5 MR. SEIBERT: -- findings.
6 So the question is, given that, how do we
7 solve this problem? Where do we go from here,
8 given the direction recommended by the
9 hearing officer. As a former law partner of
10 mine said, how do we get this ox cart out of
11 the ditch?
12 The answer is that we take some time and do
13 a better job of planning, for all of us,
14 frankly.
15 Let me give some perspective for just a
16 moment. It's important. It helps me, because
17 there are so many people involved in this
18 debate that know everything. I'd like to give
19 you some perspective.
20 In Collier County, you have three general
21 areas: You have an urban boundary, or an urban
22 growth area. That includes Naples, and a lot
23 of undeveloped land out to that boundary.
24 There is enormous capacity for development
25 that's already -- that can still develop within
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 74
June 22, 1999
1 that urban growth area. In fact, my
2 understanding is you've got capacity until the
3 year something like 2040, but it's a lot of
4 undeveloped land.
5 Beyond that, you have an -- a rural fringe
6 specifically for large areas that are feeling
7 great growth pressures. And all of those areas
8 are not alike.
9 And to the east of that, you have large
10 eastern agricultural lands, tens and tens of
11 thousands of acres.
12 The bottom line is this: The final order
13 allows time for the County and for the land
14 owners to reevaluate the plan for the areas
15 outside of that urban growth area.
16 For the eastern agricultural folks, they
17 have agreed -- and -- and I commend them for
18 this -- they may offer us something of great
19 value for the rest of the state.
20 They have agreed to take three years -- up
21 to three years, to identify the true nature of
22 these large land owners, to -- to map them, to
23 determine what's exactly there, and then to
24 really envision the future. They're not
25 feeling growth pressures right now. But nor do
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 75
June 22, 1999
1 they want to see dramatic action taken on their
2 property.
3 You know, for us to down land use them in a
4 certain way -- what they want to do is step
5 back, think about it, really envision the
6 future ten, twenty, thirty, maybe even more
7 years away.
8 They're going to take some time to do that,
9 make proposals to the County and to DCA. And
10 during that time, you've basically got a
11 self-imposed moratorium, you've got a
12 self-imposed restriction on those lands that
13 are not going to do anything with those lands
14 that are incompatible with agricultural type
15 uses.
16 That second difficult area is the rural
17 fringe area. In this case, the County will
18 come back probably sooner than later with --
19 with two things: One, with remedial plan
20 amendments that directly answer the
21 hearing officer's concerns. And those are set
22 forth pretty directly in your recommended -- in
23 the order, in the final order.
24 We also may see changes that reflect a new
25 vision perhaps for some or all of those rural
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 76
June 22, 1999
1 fringe areas. Critical to that though, ladies
2 and gentlemen, is that you will have -- or we
3 will require science, or other technical data
4 and analysis, that would support any changes
5 they would want to make.
6 And certainly there will be requirements
7 for community involvement, community
8 participation.
9 In the meantime -- and this is my final
10 remark -- in the meantime, DCA does not
11 formally down land use those areas, but we
12 wait. Essentially we wait, and in the best of
13 all possible worlds, perhaps we will see a
14 plan -- or a set of plan amendments that have
15 community buy-in, and that is a better plan
16 than we've -- than we've ever seen, maybe for
17 any place in Florida.
18 And the real hope is for the eastern ag
19 lands, we see perhaps a template for the rest
20 of the state as to how we're really going to
21 deal with those areas that are in true rural
22 areas.
23 I would ask that you not unravel this very
24 delicately balanced deal. It -- it is
25 important.
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June 22, 1999
1 I hope the DCA will continue to try to play
2 the role as a partner, as a resource, and as an
3 agency that adds value to this discussion.
4 And I thank you and stand ready to answer
5 any questions you may have.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Secretary.
7 MR. SEIBERT: Thank you, Governor.
8 Thank you.
9 MS. TINKER: The next group of speakers are
10 representing the Audubon Society and
11 Florida Wildlife Federation. These groups were
12 intervenors in the administrative hearing.
13 The speakers include Tom Reese,
14 Manley Fuller, Nancy Payton, and Andrew Mackie.
15 MR. REESE: Governor Bush, members of the
16 Cabinet, I'm Thomas W. Reese. I'm the attorney
17 for the two petitioners: Florida Wildlife
18 Federation, and the Collier County Audubon
19 Society.
20 The first thing I'd like to do is commend
21 Secretary Seibert, the DCA staff, and the
22 Administration Commission staff for what
23 they've done. It's been quite a process, it's
24 a complex process. As Secretary Seibert
25 mentioned, you know, it -- it is delicate.
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1 There's a lot more to be done. I think what
2 we've done so far is get -- making significant
3 progress.
4 Some of the major tasks that are faced are
5 the fact that Collier County, a large portion
6 of it, is part of the Everglades. And what's
7 happened on the east coast is that Dade County
8 and Broward County development has moved into
9 the Everglades. And we've come to the
10 conclusion through various studies that you
11 need to go eastward ho. Instead of moving
12 westward from Dade and Broward into the
13 Everglades, you need to be looking how to go
14 back into the urban area.
15 Well, in Collier County, we have the same
16 situation, except it's westward ho. We've got
17 to figure out how to protect the Everglades,
18 and keep development from moving in there in a
19 manner that would be harmful.
20 The second point is: There's been a lot of
21 ditching and draining that's gone on in
22 Collier County. That has resulted in water
23 quality violations.
24 The hearing officer, in his recommended
25 order, made findings of facts about
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1 noncompliant water bodies. The data that the
2 Department of Environmental Protection have
3 come up with, and given to the EPA, indicates
4 there's water quality problems violations in
5 Collier County.
6 Right now, we really don't have a solution
7 on how to bring those noncompliant water bodies
8 back into compliance.
9 And I think the next step that we're going
10 to be faced as we go back through this --
11 pursuant to this draft final order, is we're
12 going to have to collectively figure out how to
13 bring these noncompliant water bodies back into
14 compliance. And that is an important key to
15 what type of development would be appropriate
16 and good for this state and county.
17 So I think that that is really something
18 that needs to be focused upon. I think that
19 there is sufficient direction in the draft
20 order that we can do that together.
21 And at this point, want to keep my comments
22 brief, I'd like to have Manley Fuller, the
23 Executive Director of the Florida Wildlife
24 Federation, speak to you.
25 Thank you.
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1 MR. FULLER: Governor, members of the
2 Cabinet, it's a pleasure to be here today. We
3 want to also --
4 The -- Manley Fuller speaking for the
5 Florida Wildlife Federation.
6 We want to commend the Secretary, your
7 staff for working very hard to bring us to this
8 point. We look forward to working with you all
9 in the implementation of this -- of this -- of
10 this plan.
11 We are concerned about the urban --
12 urbanizing pressures that are being placed on
13 what -- what we consider the western portion
14 of -- or the greater Everglades ecosystem.
15 As you're aware, this county contains an
16 extremely valuable habitat for Florida panthers
17 and other animals. And this is a real test for
18 how we address the issues of -- of sprawl.
19 And so we -- we want to commend -- commend
20 what's before you today, and -- and recommend
21 that you support it.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
23 MR. FULLER: Thank you.
24 I'd like to recognize Nancy Payton of our
25 Federation staff in Naples.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Nancy, what's that button,
2 what's that sticker say?
3 MS. PAYTON: Oh, I'm going to talk about
4 that.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
6 MS. PAYTON: It says: Stop Urban Sprawl.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: You've been sending me
8 e-mails, haven't you?
9 MS. PAYTON: My friends have.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's stop e-mail
11 sprawl.
12 MS. PAYTON: Good morning, Governor Bush,
13 and members of the Cabinet.
14 I am Nancy Payton, the Southwest Florida
15 Field Representative for the Florida Wildlife
16 Federation.
17 Yesterday morning, I and others, along the
18 wall over there -- and I hope they'll stand up
19 and identify themselves.
20 Please stand. They're wearing the
21 stickers.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Stop --
23 MS. PAYTON: -- Stop Urban Sprawl.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: They all e-mailed me, too.
25 MS. PAYTON: Yes, they did. Probably more
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1 than once.
2 -- we boarded a bus, a bus without
3 functioning air conditioning -- a testament to
4 our desire to be here today -- and we traveled
5 8 hours through the hot sun so we could attend
6 and participate in this meeting, this very
7 important meeting.
8 We represent many people in Collier County
9 who are concerned about urban sprawl and its
10 impact on our community's unique natural
11 resources, the western Everglades.
12 Your recent e-mails, letters, and phone
13 calls from Collier County residents, and other
14 people across the state who have great
15 appreciation for the western Everglades, are a
16 testament to that genuine and lasting concern.
17 The local newspapers reflect a community
18 still at odds with local officials over their
19 growth policies.
20 The draft final order calls for
21 collaborative community-based public
22 participation. It also reads: Public
23 participation will be the hallmark of this
24 planning process. This is music to our ears,
25 because we care about our community.
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1 To us, these words mean that finally we get
2 seats, not in the audience, but around the
3 planning table. To us, these words mean we
4 finally get to become involved at the beginning
5 of this planning process, as shapers of our
6 community's future.
7 To us, these words mean we finally have
8 fair representation on each and every committee
9 established in response to this final order.
10 To us, these words mean that the biased
11 committees recently appointed by the
12 Commissioners to advise them on plan amendments
13 are now defunct.
14 And to us, these words mean that finally
15 our input should be valued, respected, and
16 encouraged.
17 When we board that bus this afternoon, with
18 hopefully repaired air conditioning, send us
19 off carrying good news for our friends and
20 neighbors back home. Tell us, reassure us,
21 that our understanding of collaborative
22 community-based public participation is the
23 same as yours. We're in agreement in what
24 those words mean.
25 We'd like to thank Secretary Seibert,
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1 Shaw Stiller, and Charles Gauthier of DCA, and
2 Teresa Tinker of your staff for understanding
3 the significance and importance of public
4 involvement.
5 And thank you, Governor Bush, and members
6 of the Cabinet, for responding to our concerns.
7 Thank you.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
9 MR. MACKIE: Good morning, Governor Bush
10 and the Cabinet.
11 My name is Andrew Mackie, and I am
12 representing the 1500-member Collier County
13 Audubon Society.
14 We support the final offer before you
15 today. This order is needed for
16 Collier County, important for Everglades
17 restoration, and smart for the State of
18 Florida.
19 We commend the work of the Department of
20 Community Affairs during this process and look
21 forward to an open, public forum that includes
22 fair representation for all parties in
23 developing a sustainable growth plan for
24 Collier County.
25 Thank you.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
2 MS. TINKER: The next speaker is the
3 Honorable Pamela Mac'Kie, Chairwoman of the
4 Collier County Board of Commissioners.
5 MS. Mac'KIE: Good morning, Governor, and
6 Cabinet members. I bring you greetings from
7 paradise, and gratitude for your assistance in
8 helping us keep it that way.
9 We do have a wonderful document before you
10 today. It is the result of some outstanding
11 effort.
12 I -- I hope that you -- and I trust that
13 you do -- appreciate just the quality of staff
14 and -- and work that you have.
15 I -- I rarely have the experience that I
16 have had today with regard to Ms. Tinker, to
17 have representatives from the environmental
18 community, from the development community, from
19 the agricultural community, and from my own
20 staff, all say to me that here is the woman who
21 has made this delicate balance come together
22 because she was very open, very responsive, and
23 very able to bring people to consensus.
24 So we particularly want to thank you for
25 that.
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1 We also want to thank you for the
2 outstanding work that we've had with
3 Secretary Seibert. His staff has been
4 wonderful to work with. He's been completely
5 available to us.
6 And as he outlined at the beginning of the
7 remarks this morning, he has a -- a real
8 understanding of what the issues are and the
9 geography in our county, and we appreciate
10 that.
11 I wish I had as clever a line as the
12 symphony. I don't. But I would like to -- to
13 ask you please to endorse the recommended order
14 that's before you today, and to thank you for
15 giving us the opportunity to get back home, get
16 to work.
17 We're anxious to have this public
18 participation, and we're anxious to start
19 gathering the data, and to go through the
20 process of analysis to plan the future for the
21 rest of our county.
22 And we thank you for that opportunity, and
23 hope that you will endorse what's before you
24 today.
25 My staff had asked me to respectfully
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1 reserve the balance of our time to respond to
2 any issues that may be brought up by others, if
3 there are questions that I could call on our
4 staff to respond to at the end of the
5 presentation.
6 And with that, we thank you.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Chairman.
8 MS. TINKER: Next speaker is Ken Cuyler
9 representing the Collier County School Board,
10 who is also an intervenor in the proceeding.
11 MR. CUYLER: Good morning.
12 I just want to briefly put on the record
13 that the Collier County School Board does
14 support the order as written.
15 We look forward to participating in the
16 evaluation of the rural agricultural area, as
17 part of the overall school process.
18 And when you think of the School Board, I
19 know that you know who my client is. My
20 client's the one that builds the schools and
21 teaches the children that were the first item
22 on your agenda this morning.
23 And I saw the pride in all of your faces
24 when they were up in front of you. That's our
25 primary responsibility.
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1 We understand the planning process, we
2 intend to participate in the planning process.
3 But we also need to accommodate our statutory
4 mandates, and make sure that the -- the
5 children are educated.
6 Thank you very much.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
8 MS. TINKER: That concludes the speakers
9 that were parties to the administrative
10 hearing, but we have several other speakers who
11 are --
12 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
13 room.)
14 MS. TINKER: -- citizens or represent land
15 owners in Collier County.
16 Wayne Arnold, representing Indian Hill
17 Partners just told me that he's going to waive
18 his time. He supports the order.
19 And Bruce Anderson representing
20 Rural Fringe Coalition, which is a group of
21 land owners in that rural fringe, is also
22 waiving his time. He's in support of the order
23 as well.
24 We'll move on to Ernie Cox representing the
25 Eastern Collier Property Owners.
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1 MR. COX: Good morning, Governor Bush --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
3 MR. COX: -- members of the Cabinet.
4 My name is Ernie Cox. I'm a lawyer with
5 the firm of Gunster, Yoakley, Valdes-Fauli &
6 Stewart. Working on this project with
7 George Varnadoe. George is with the firm of
8 Young, van Assenderp, Varnadoe & Anderson.
9 Together we represent the Eastern Collier
10 Property Owners. If you take a look at this
11 map of the entirety of Collier County, it is
12 the area in the northeastern portion consisting
13 of approximately 185,000 acres.
14 Our clients, the Eastern Collier Property
15 Owners, consist of the Barron Collier
16 Companies, Collier Enterprises, Jack Price,
17 ALICO, and Pacific Land Company. Together
18 those five land owning agricultural entities
19 own 165,000 of those 185,000 acres.
20 We'd like to thank as well Teresa Tinker
21 and her staff. They really have done a real
22 good job of lending an impartial perspective to
23 try to put this thing together.
24 Obviously with the enormity of the lands
25 that our clients own --
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1 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
2 room.)
3 MR. COX: -- the divergent issues, the
4 property rights issues, and Judge Meale's
5 recommended order, it's been a difficult task.
6 She's done a good job.
7 We'd also like to thank your individual
8 Cabinet Aides who have each taken a lot of time
9 to understand these issues and to understand
10 our concerns.
11 We applaud the holistic planning effort.
12 When Secretary Seibert came down to
13 Collier County and talked about bottoms up
14 planning, we said, good, we're ready for that,
15 an involvement of the stakeholders, and
16 particularly the involvement of the people who
17 own the land.
18 These folks have owned this property for
19 many, many years; in some cases for
20 generations. And it's a very, very important
21 part of their lives and their livelihood.
22 They're good stewards of this land and look
23 forward to being involved in a process to make
24 it better.
25 We do support this recommended order. We
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1 have some concerns with individual provisions.
2 We'd prefer to see them differently.
3 But in the world of compromise, and
4 particularly in the world of looking for what
5 happens next, we think it's a good start. The
6 implementation is where it's going to be very
7 difficult. We do have a few concerns we'd like
8 to make. Sure, you understand as we get
9 started on this.
10 First, some of the properties that are
11 involved in the eastern Collier study area are
12 currently on State acquisition lists. And so
13 we would oppose any measures that might add
14 additional regulations or restrictions to
15 properties that are already targeted for
16 acquisition.
17 The amendments that are set forth here,
18 however, are much better than the original
19 down-zoning proposal that had been worked out
20 by County staff and DCA staff.
21 As you know, it is critically important for
22 the future of economically viable agriculture
23 in the state of Florida that land values be
24 preserved.
25 We're also concerned about any attempts
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1 that may come out of the process to add
2 additional unnecessary regulations to
3 agriculture. It's a heavily regulated
4 industry, and it's increasingly fragile with
5 NAFTA and citrus canker and the issues that we
6 deal with every single day. We need to make
7 sure that you're with us in not allowing
8 additional unnecessary regulations on
9 agriculture.
10 We support the proposed collaboration
11 between the State agencies. We believe that's
12 very important.
13 The point I would like to make regarding
14 water quality is, the Legislature passed a bill
15 this last session to address water quality
16 deficiencies throughout the state. We support
17 that legislation, and believe that the DEP,
18 working with the Water Management Districts,
19 and the people that are involved in it, can
20 work through those issues.
21 Seemingly innocuous language about water
22 quality must be carefully considered because
23 the implications it may have, particularly as
24 it relates to large scale agricultural
25 activities.
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1 As you know, we -- we originally came up
2 with this idea for the plan, and for the
3 self-imposed three-year moratorium. We felt
4 that was a good opportunity to look at this
5 area from a long-term planning perspective.
6 And we still support that.
7 However, and this is why some of the
8 language in the order is critical, if that
9 self-imposed moratorium ends up going on
10 forever, two years, three years, four years,
11 the order provides that we can come back, and
12 we will come back and request relief at that
13 time.
14 We think we can get it done in that time
15 period, look forward to working with everybody
16 towards that, and appreciate your time and
17 consideration on this.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mr. Cox.
19 MS. TINKER: Next speaker is
20 Charles Pattison, representing 1000 Friends of
21 Florida.
22 MR. PATTISON: Governor, thank you again
23 for the chance to appear.
24 1000 Friends, of course, monitors growth
25 management issues around the state. And we
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1 very much appreciate the chance to see a
2 consensus-based, locally driven process.
3 We think the inclusion of the public
4 especially is critical here. We're very
5 complimentary of the work that
6 Secretary Seibert, his staff, the Governor's
7 staff, the intervenors have shown, including
8 the County, in getting us to this point.
9 We think this is what DCA is all about, to
10 try to work through these kinds of problems,
11 and give the communities a chance to work those
12 out.
13 They did the right thing, we believe, very
14 much in identifying these issues and bringing
15 them to an Administrative Law Judge.
16 The opportunity to work through this is
17 before us, and we welcome the chance to support
18 this final order, and hope you will do the
19 same.
20 Thank you.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
22 MS. TINKER: David Guggenheim representing
23 The Conservancy of Southwest Florida.
24 MR. GUGGENHEIM: Governor Bush, members of
25 the Cabinet, good morning.
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1 For the record, I'm David Guggenheim,
2 President and CEO of The Conservancy of
3 Southwest Florida, located in Naples.
4 The Conservancy is celebrating its
5 35th anniversary, and represents 5500 member
6 families, and nearly 700 volunteers.
7 I'm also wearing another hat today. I'm
8 representing the Everglades Coalition, as its
9 Florida cochair representing more than
10 40 national, state, and regional nonprofit
11 organizations working together to protect the
12 Everglades.
13 And on behalf of both The Conservancy and
14 the Everglades Coalition, we wish to express
15 our strongest support to Secretary Seibert's
16 recommended remedial actions for
17 Collier County.
18 And I also want to take the opportunity to
19 commend his very capable staff, Teresa, and --
20 and actually all the -- all the Aides who've --
21 who've really been fully engaged in this
22 process. It's been a lot of hard work.
23 This issue is simultaneously a local
24 planning issue and an Everglades issue.
25 Unchecked urban sprawl is threatening the
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1 critically important western part of the
2 Everglades ecosystem, and we are absolutely
3 desperate not to make the same mistakes that
4 were made on the southeast coast.
5 We believe that Secretary Seibert has
6 demonstrated great foresight and leadership at
7 a most critical crossroads in the fastest
8 growing part of the Everglades ecosystem, and,
9 indeed, the state.
10 They have proposed a community-based effort
11 that is far from draconian command and control
12 actions. This is something that we can all
13 participate in.
14 And on behalf of The Conservancy, I would
15 like to pledge our complete support of this
16 process, and our fullest participation at the
17 table.
18 With Secretary Seibert's indulgence, I'd
19 like to quote him.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, God, don't do that.
21 This is going to go to his head.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right.
23 MR. GUGGENHEIM: It's too late.
24 At a -- at a luncheon in Naples a few weeks
25 ago, the Secretary, speaking to Commissioners
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1 said: The good news is, I'm really going to
2 get out of your way, and I'm going to try to be
3 less of a pain. The bad news is, you've got to
4 do a better job.
5 This is an admirable philosophy. And in
6 DCA's proposed actions, Secretary Seibert
7 offers Collier County a way to do that better
8 job, with DCA as a partner in the process, not
9 a foe.
10 And we believe that this proposal is strong
11 enough that it has great potential to serve as
12 a model elsewhere in the Everglades ecosystem,
13 and, indeed, around the state for other
14 counties struggling with the same very
15 difficult growth management issues.
16 This is a very important step. Without
17 meaningful action, we face a western Everglades
18 disaster. Secretary Seibert has offered us a
19 sensible alternative.
20 And we respectfully urge you to support
21 this recommended action.
22 Thank you very much.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Testimonial
25 today, or just --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't know. It's getting
2 a little out of hand.
3 MS. TINKER: Next speaker is Nicole Ryan,
4 representing the League of Women Voters.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Nicole, can -- just for the
6 record, can you say something bad about
7 Secretary Seibert so that we can -- this is --
8 MS. RYAN: Good morning, Governor Bush,
9 members of the Cabinet. For the record, my
10 name is Nicole Ryan. And today I am
11 speaking --
12 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
13 MS. RYAN: -- on behalf, not only of the
14 Collier County League of Women Voters, but also
15 of the Save the Manatee Club, the Responsible
16 Growth Management Coalition, and the
17 Environmental Confederation of Southwest
18 Florida.
19 All of these organizations strongly support
20 the draft final order for Collier County.
21 We believe that growth within
22 Collier County needs to be limited in order to
23 protect our threatened natural resources.
24 The draft final order offers a sensible
25 approach, which provides protection to our
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1 environmentally sensitive lands, until a
2 permanent plan can be put into place.
3 Therefore, the Collier County League of
4 Women Voters, the Save the Manatee Club, the
5 Responsible Growth Management Coalition, and
6 the Environmental Confederation of Southwest
7 Florida all urge you to adopt the draft final
8 order to bring Collier County into compliance
9 with proper growth management.
10 We also strongly urge you to provide full
11 public participation in all future committees
12 pertaining to this final order.
13 Thank you.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
15 MS. TINKER: Next speaker is Mel Poplock, a
16 citizen of Collier County.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
18 MR. POPLOCK: Hi.
19 Governor Bush, and members of the Cabinet,
20 my name is Mel Poplock, and I am a CPA living
21 in Naples.
22 As you know, we have a serious situation in
23 Collier County. We are clearly out of control
24 in the area of growth management. We are, and
25 hopefully now I can use the past tense, were in
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1 danger of losing some of the most valuable
2 habitat left in Florida.
3 Now I hope you will help direct
4 Collier County down a path of responsible
5 growth.
6 Thanks.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. Thanks for
8 coming up.
9 MS. TINKER: The last speaker is
10 Carl Bontemps, a citizen of Collier County.
11 MR. BONTEMPS: Governor, members of the
12 Cabinet, I'm pleased to be here this morning.
13 I'm a citizen, I've been a volunteer in the
14 environmental community for the last ten to
15 twelve years in Collier County.
16 I grew up outdoors, I like the outdoors, I
17 like fresh water, I like the trees, I like the
18 birds, I like everything.
19 We moved down permanently to -- we've been
20 coming to Collier County for 30 years. We're
21 permanently down there now, and I'm extremely
22 highly active in the environmental community.
23 I volunteer huge time. And this last year
24 they doubled my salary from zero zero, to
25 zero zero zero zero.
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1 When I first started coming down here in
2 1970, Collier County was pristine. It was
3 beautiful. Everything. It was -- it was the
4 ideal -- ideal place to live.
5 Today it's been going downhill, things have
6 slipped, rules and regulations --
7 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
8 MR. BONTEMPS: -- have been shoddy, they
9 have not been followed. And it's -- it is sad.
10 I think that under your administration,
11 that the things that are happening now, the
12 pressure you have put on to get things done,
13 and followed, and done right, is extremely
14 important. And I admire you for that.
15 In a campaign a couple of years ago
16 regarding the environment, in Collier County,
17 we said we didn't want an east coast,
18 west coast, and we wanted to keep Collier
19 paradise. And that's what we want to do.
20 One individual connected with that program
21 stood up and made a talk. And he said,
22 15 years from now, do you want to stand and
23 listen to your children say to you, dad,
24 15 years ago, you had a chance to do something.
25 Why didn't you do it?
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1 We don't want Collier to go into disrepair,
2 we want it to keep up. And I admire, and I'd
3 like to congratulate you on the position you've
4 taken in giving force. And I say, keep it up,
5 keep the pressure on. This is what the
6 citizens of Collier County want.
7 Thank you very much.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
9 MS. TINKER: That concludes the speakers.
10 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I'd move the
11 staff recommendation.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
14 Any discussion?
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yes.
16 Two comments, at the risk of further
17 inflating egos.
18 I just -- I really do want to say, I've
19 never witnessed a Cabinet meeting with the
20 historic change in attitude toward DCA due to
21 Steve Seibert and Teresa Tinker, and all of
22 your staff.
23 On -- on behalf of the Cabinet, I'm sure we
24 all appreciate your efforts. That's the way
25 government really should -- should work.
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1 And also I need to abstain from this vote
2 to avoid a potential personal conflict.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
4 There is a motion and a second.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 And we thank you all for coming up to the
7 Cabinet meeting, and we thank you for your hard
8 work to be a model for the rest of the state.
9 (The Administration Agenda was concluded.)
10 *
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1 (Discussion off the record.)
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Gallagher,
3 what I thought we might do is to go through
4 Item 5 of your agenda, and then break for
5 lunch? I think that'll be about the right
6 time.
7 Is that -- is that all right?
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Sounds good to me.
9 (Commissioner Gallagher exited the room.)
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item Number 1.
11 MR. PIERSON: Item Number 1 is minutes of
12 the meeting held on May 11th, 1999.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
14 Item Number 1 is what? I didn't hear it.
15 MR. PIERSON: Minutes of the meeting held
16 on May 11th, 199--
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
18 MR. PIERSON: --9.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is an appeal of the
24 Orange Avenue -- Avenue Charter School,
25 Incorporated, which was denied by the St. Lucie
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1 County School Board.
2 The State Board of Education considers
3 appeals of denials of charter school
4 applications pursuant to 96-186, Laws of
5 Florida.
6 As prescribed by law, Florida school boards
7 are given authority to grant approval to
8 applicants who wish to operate charter schools
9 within a district.
10 A further provision of the law allows an
11 applicant who has been denied a charter the
12 right to appeal the School Board's decision to
13 the State Board of Education.
14 Based on the written record and oral
15 argument presented at this meeting, the -- the
16 State Board must vote to recommend acceptance
17 or rejection of the appeal to the School Board.
18 The vote requires a simple majority of the
19 members, and by law is not subject to the
20 provisions of the Administrative Procedures
21 Act.
22 The rule governing the appeal process was
23 unanimously adopted by the Cabinet, sitting as
24 the State Board of Education, on December 10th,
25 1996.
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1 It clearly states how this hearing must
2 proceed --
3 (Commissioner Gallagher entered the room.)
4 MR. PIERSON: -- and it specifies the
5 following limitations which must be respected
6 by the applicant, the District School Board,
7 and their representatives.
8 The Notice of Appeal must be based on
9 errors the applicant charges the School Board
10 made in its decision to deny the charter.
11 The written arguments submitted by the
12 applicant to the State Board is limited to
13 discussion of those errors.
14 The record of this proceeding is limited to
15 the written arguments, the charter school
16 application itself, and transcripts of meetings
17 before the District School Board.
18 At this hearing, representatives of each
19 party may give oral argument. Oral argument is
20 limited to a summary of the written arguments
21 previously submitted to the State Board.
22 Each side has agreed to limit their
23 presentation to 10 minutes. After the
24 summaries are presented, a vote will be taken,
25 a written recommendation of the vote will be
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1 returned to the District School Board.
2 The first side to be heard will be the
3 Orange Avenue Charter School, represented by
4 Margaret Benton.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning, Ms. Benton.
6 How are you doing?
7 MS. BENTON: Good morning.
8 Good morning, Governor.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: You may want to lower that
10 mic down a little bit.
11 MS. BENTON: Thank you.
12 Governor Bush, members of the Cabinet. I
13 am Margaret Benton, and I am the counsel for
14 the Orange Avenue Charter School of
15 St. Lucie County.
16 At this time, I do want to indicate that we
17 are here on an appeal of a denial of the third
18 charter for the Orange Avenue Charter School.
19 And I'd like to introduce those members who
20 are present with me today: The Director,
21 founder, and the Immediate Past Chairman,
22 Reverend Jonathan Ingram; Principal,
23 Mrs. Mary Warmack; second grade teacher,
24 Ms. Nicola Isaac; and the testing and
25 measurement expert hired by the charter school,
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1 Dr. Seward Hamilton.
2 Dr. Hamilton is a professor of psychology
3 at Florida A&M University. He has worked with
4 charter schools in other areas, including
5 Tallahassee and Tampa, with an emphasis in
6 psychological testing and measurement.
7 As I indicated, the charter school is
8 requesting a third charter, and asks that there
9 be a recommendation from this Board to the
10 St. Lucie County School Board to award that
11 charter to the school.
12 The appeal presents two primary issues:
13 The one, and first, deals with assessments, the
14 related baseline data, and student progress.
15 The other is a procedural matter which I
16 will get to later with -- which deals with the
17 failure of the School Board to follow the
18 statutory procedure and due process in denying
19 the charter.
20 It is our position that in not following
21 that statutory procedure, the school should not
22 now be allowed or permitted under State law
23 to -- to move forward in denying the charter.
24 But back to the assessment issue.
25 The school has alleged -- the School Board,
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1 that is, has alleged that there's been no
2 proper assessment, that there's no baseline
3 data, and that the students have not
4 progressed.
5 In fact, the contrary is true. There has
6 been proper assessment under the charter, the
7 baseline data has been gathered, and students
8 have progressed.
9 In fact, the assessments used -- or the
10 assessment system used is the assessment which
11 was designed by the School District itself.
12 And it was recommended by the District that the
13 charter school use that assessment system.
14 In fact, that was done just one day after the
15 charter school had presented to its Board -- or
16 its administrators had presented to its Board a
17 proposed assessment system.
18 So the system that has been followed now
19 for this whole year has been the assessment
20 system of the School District.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: What is that assessment
22 system?
23 MS. BENTON: That assessment system
24 consists of -- and I will refer you to the
25 addendum --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't have that.
2 MS. BENTON: -- which was submitted by the
3 charter school on page -- starting on page 248.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
5 MS. BENTON: And that system basically
6 includes testing of the different classes -- I
7 don't know whether --
8 Governor, you -- you mean for me to go
9 into each --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, if they use the
11 Metropolitan test, SAT test, what's the --
12 MS. BENTON: All right. For the -- for
13 K -- or kindergarten, 1st and 2nd grades, there
14 is no achievement test in this assessment
15 system.
16 Third and fourth grades -- the 3rd grade
17 does, indeed, have an assessment achievement
18 test, which is the Stanford. And 4th grade,
19 there is also the Stanford.
20 In addition to that, of course,
21 incorporated into this system is the State
22 plan, which includes the FCAT, the
23 Florida Writes for 3rd -- for 4th grade.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
25 MS. BENTON: And so that is -- that is
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1 the -- that is the primary. And there is also
2 a requirement for a curriculum-based assessment
3 in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grades.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
5 MS. BENTON: And there are other
6 particulars, but those are the main ones.
7 Now, with regard to that particular system,
8 the charter school incorporated that system
9 into its charter. So when it followed -- when
10 it got the recommendation from the
11 School District, it became a part of the
12 charter when it was signed.
13 And the Orange Avenue -- on -- on the --
14 the charter school addendum again, the charter
15 school states on page 248 in the charter, that
16 the Orange Avenue Charter School is committed
17 to being a part of the student assessment
18 program as designed by the School District.
19 The reason that the School Board cannot
20 measure student progress -- and now I've talked
21 about assessment, I'm going on student
22 progress, which is another concern of the
23 School Board.
24 The reason that they cannot measure student
25 progress on -- on an achievement test, is
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1 because the District does not have a system
2 that will allow you to do that. In other
3 words, there is a gap in the system. And it's
4 a gap for the school -- for the charter school,
5 it may not be a gap for the School District,
6 I'm not suggesting that.
7 But it does not contain a pretest and a
8 posttest component which will allow you to
9 measure the achievement at the beginning of the
10 year for a student, and then measure it at the
11 end of the year during the same academic year
12 so that you would know that Student A started
13 at point 1, and he or she has now progressed to
14 point 10. And you can measure what -- what --
15 what that -- that is.
16 So that -- you cannot measure it on an
17 achievement test, because, as I said, the first
18 two -- three years, there -- there -- K, 1, and
19 2, there is no achievement test at all. And,
20 of course, there is no pre- and post- component
21 in the whole system.
22 You must have that in order to measure it.
23 The -- the achievement -- the other factor
24 is that the achievement tests that are given,
25 are given at the end of the year, instead of at
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1 the beginning of the year. And there was no
2 instruction or no decision -- or nothing in the
3 charter that dictated to the -- or mandated the
4 Orange Avenue Charter School to put in a pre
5 and post.
6 The understanding was that we will track
7 the assessment system that was already set
8 forward. And, of course, what happened here is
9 that the Orange Avenue Charter School did,
10 indeed, comply with the charter; it took all of
11 those tests; it did have its 4th grade submit
12 to the Florida system and take the FCAT and the
13 Florida Writes. So there is compliance there.
14 But none of the testing that would allow
15 the District to do what it liked -- it would
16 like to do.
17 Now, in your materials, I would like to
18 point out one factor. You will see two
19 charters that have been supplied to you. The
20 first one is the one that exists today, and
21 that we are traveling under today. It is the
22 charter for 1998 and '99, and it is found in
23 the charter school's addendum. And it begins
24 at page 195.
25 Now, the previous charter was submitted by
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1 the School Board, and it is for the first year,
2 1997-98. And it's found in the -- in the
3 appendix, and the assessment portion is at or
4 about 46 in their appendix.
5 Well, why is that important? It's
6 important because it -- it shows the history,
7 the track record of the charter school in terms
8 of assessment, and what they did last year.
9 The only reason that the charter school is
10 not doing pre and post tests this year -- or
11 did not do that this year, is because it
12 followed the recommendation of the District,
13 and adopted the District's assessment system.
14 But last year, if you will look at that
15 material, you will see that there was a lot of
16 specificity regarding assessment. Pre and post
17 was mentioned. And, again, that's about 46 of
18 the School Board's appendix.
19 Pre and post was mentioned, it had to be
20 done, there had to be a test for the
21 1st graders, which is not required this year,
22 the Brigance Test -- screening test, pre and
23 post.
24 As a matter of fact, the Metropolitan was
25 given three times during the first year. That
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1 was the -- the -- in fall, in September; again
2 in January; and then, finally, in May.
3 So you had all of the data that you would
4 need in order to see whether there was,
5 in fact, any progress.
6 And when we started with the new system,
7 there was a changeover from the -- the
8 Metropolitan to the Stanford. So not only was
9 the system changed, but the -- the primary
10 assessment for those who had not taken the --
11 the State test was -- was changed to the
12 Stanford.
13 Now, in complying with the charter
14 requirements, the charter school administered
15 the District's assessments on the same date and
16 time as they were administered by the
17 School Board. And I would like to also say
18 that in most cases, the School Board provided
19 those tests at no cost to -- to the charter
20 school.
21 So there was compliance with regard to
22 that.
23 And I'd like to go on to baseline data.
24 Because you don't have the pre and the post,
25 you -- you might not -- you don't have an early
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1 baseline data, you have a late baseline data.
2 But, again, the charter does not require
3 that the baseline data, which is the data that
4 you use to compare with other tests so you can
5 see what the student is doing, you don't -- you
6 don't have that early on this year.
7 You did have it again early on last year.
8 And you'll probably hear from the principal
9 that she had proposed a system that would allow
10 such an early on beginning of the year baseline
11 data. But there is no requirement for that in
12 the charter.
13 But there is baseline data. In accordance
14 with the charter, the baseline data is easily
15 that information or data that has come from the
16 State test, the FCAT, and also from the F-- the
17 Florida Writes, as well as the Stanford. The
18 Stanford was given to the 3rd graders. So the
19 baseline data is in there, and that is the --
20 the standard by which we would measure.
21 Now, as to the fir-- the kindergarten,
22 1st graders, and 2nd graders who didn't get an
23 achievement test, because the system doesn't
24 pro-- provide it, they could easily get an
25 achievement test at the beginning of the next
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1 year.
2 And, in fact, at the beginning of the next
3 year, and probably next year, the charter
4 should reflect that there's a requirement for
5 pre and post, go back to what was done the
6 first year in terms of assessment so that we
7 won't have this problem again.
8 It sounds like there could have been a
9 problem with communication more than anything
10 else, because we -- we -- the school followed
11 the assessment system, and then the
12 School Board came back and said, but I can't
13 measure anything, not remembering that you
14 can't measure anything if you don't have the
15 tools in there with which to do it.
16 So I'd like to -- if I have more time, I'd
17 like to relinquish that to the other persons
18 who came, and that would be Mrs. Warmack, who
19 can give you a little bit more detail on the
20 assessment; Mrs. Isaac, the teacher, who can
21 give some personal knowledge about what
22 happened in the classroom; and, of course,
23 Dr. Hamilton, who will talk about the
24 assessment from a specialist's point of view.
25 Unless you have any questions of me.
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1 Thank you.
2 I'd like to call Mrs. Warmack.
3 Thank you.
4 Let me -- let me just say, I -- as she's
5 coming forward, I do want to say that, again,
6 you have the authorities that I submitted to
7 staff and to the Aides regarding the 90-day
8 notice, and also the fact that a 14-day -- a
9 notice was not given that the charter school
10 should have a right to a 14-day notice that
11 they can have a hearing -- or notice they can
12 have a hearing within 14 days. That's exactly
13 what it is.
14 However, that time has passed when the
15 school wanted to have a hearing subsequently
16 around May 25th, the 90-day period would
17 have -- would have been too late, because this
18 particular charter expires on June 30th.
19 So that 90-day notice should have been in
20 approximately the first of April.
21 Thank you.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Mrs. Warmack. How
23 are you doing?
24 MS. WARMACK: Fine. Thank you.
25 Good morning to the Governor and the
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1 Cabinet members.
2 I'm Mary Warmack, Principal at
3 Orange Avenue Charter School; Fort Pierce,
4 Florida.
5 Orange Avenue Charter School is a school
6 with students who are from the low
7 socioeconomic area. They are substantially
8 below student -- below average in student
9 achievement. They are students who have severe
10 discipline, and some have behavioral problems.
11 They are students who come from families
12 who are involved with law enforcement, as well
13 as some of those students themselves, and
14 possibly their siblings.
15 Their parents are either -- most of their
16 parents are drop-outs, or many of their
17 siblings are drop-outs. And these -- this
18 is -- these areas are the ones that qualify
19 these students to attend Orange Avenue Charter
20 School.
21 This past year, we had seven teachers,
22 ninety-four students, three para-professionals,
23 a volunteer counselor, and a volunteer
24 physical education person towards the end of
25 the school year.
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1 The curriculum was developed according to
2 the Florida Sunshine State Standards for
3 kindergarten through 4th grade. We
4 administered in September to the kindergarten
5 students the readiness test for the academic
6 year of 1998 to '99. That was provided to us
7 for the -- through the St. Lucie County
8 School Board.
9 We proceeded to follow the curriculum, as
10 designed in the charter, throughout the school
11 year. Our assessment plan that I presented to
12 the Orange Avenue Charter School Board on the
13 27th of July did provide for a pre and a
14 posttest for each grade level.
15 But on the 28th, the Superintendent did
16 issue an edict -- or -- I don't -- I better not
17 say that -- but a recommendation that we follow
18 the St. Lucie County school assessment system.
19 So, therefore, it took precedence over the one
20 that I had presented to the Orange Avenue
21 Charter School.
22 Our assessments at Orange Avenue Charter
23 School included the following: In September we
24 administered to Grades K through 4 a
25 failure-free criterion reference test. We
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1 administered the Houghton-Mifflin Basal Reader
2 test in September.
3 The Kindergarten Readiness Test was taken
4 in September, the Phonemic Awareness Test was
5 administered to Grades K through 4 in September
6 and in January.
7 The Basic Reading Inventory was
8 administered to Grades K through 4 in January.
9 Florida Writes was administered to our
10 4th grade students in January, and FCAT in
11 February.
12 And the Stanford Achievement Test 9 was
13 administered to Grades 3 and 4 in April.
14 The staff --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I just --
16 MS. WARMACK: -- faculty --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- just --
18 MS. WARMACK: Yes.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- just so we get a little
20 sense of how this relates.
21 None of this was related to the contract
22 you had with the School District, but you --
23 I mean, as it related to assessments, or your
24 performance on your contract.
25 You had more tests for those poor children
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1 than any school in the state, it sounds like.
2 But there wasn't enough to be able to
3 measure -- there was no assessment in your
4 contract that was measurable to -- that -- that
5 said you did good or you did bad?
6 MS. WARMACK: In our contract?
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Right. I mean, that's
8 really why we're here is the contract with
9 your School -- the School District.
10 MS. WARMACK: We did not administer a pre.
11 We only -- we administered --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand.
13 MS. WARMACK: -- a post achievement.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: But you did all these poor
15 tests for these poor kids.
16 MS. WARMACK: For diagnostic --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: But none of them related
18 to -- none of them related to the contract.
19 MS. WARMACK: For diagnostic and
20 instructional purposes. For our purposes of
21 instructing our students.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: They've been tested pretty
23 good.
24 MS. WARMACK: Yeah.
25 That is the assessment of the Orange Avenue
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1 Charter School this time.
2 Are there any ques-- other questions of me?
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well --
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I just -- how long
5 have you been the principal there?
6 MS. WARMACK: This is my first year there.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So you're
8 concluding your first year. Or --
9 MS. WARMACK: Oh, this is my tenth year in
10 administration.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Right.
12 MS. WARMACK: This is --
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: But I mean at -- at
14 the Orange County -- at the Orange School,
15 your --
16 MS. WARMACK: First.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- first year.
18 Okay.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
20 MS. WARMACK: You're welcome.
21 MS. BENTON: Governor, members of the
22 Cabinet, I -- I would like to recognize one
23 other person, a Board member,
24 Mr. Michael Swanson, who's present.
25 Would you please stand, sir.
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1 Thank you.
2 And we have other speakers. We have our
3 expert, Dr. Hamilton. And I understand there's
4 a time problem. And we are available to answer
5 any questions.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. Let's hear the other
7 side, and then we'll -- we'll -- we'll have a
8 chance, I'm sure, to have some questions.
9 So --
10 MR. PIERSON: The St. Lucie County
11 School Board is represented by Attorney
12 Dan Harrell.
13 MR. HARRELL: Good morning, Mr. Governor,
14 members of the State Board of Education.
15 Dan Harrell on behalf of the School Board
16 of St. Lucie County.
17 As a testament to the importance of -- of
18 this matter to the School Board, with me today
19 are the Chairman of the School Board,
20 Ms. Kathryn Hensley; the current Vice Chairman
21 of the Board, Dr. John Carvelli; the
22 Superintendent of Schools, Dr. William Vogel;
23 the Associate Superintendent for Curriculum and
24 Instruction, Ms. Queen Townsend; and also
25 Ms. Sandra Wolfe, who is the Director of
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1 assessment and program evaluation.
2 I'll try to make my remarks as brief as
3 possible, and then ask Ms. Townsend to step
4 forward and address the fundamental concern
5 that the School Board has faced with this
6 request for renewal, and that is that students
7 are not receiving the education that they
8 deserve.
9 And Dr. Vogel and Ms. Townsend and
10 Ms. Wolfe, of course, will be available for
11 questions.
12 Let me first address some things that this
13 matter -- this proceeding is not about.
14 Firstly, this proceeding is not about the
15 School Board denying the charter school an
16 opportunity to present its position.
17 Notwithstanding the characterizations that
18 the -- that the charter school has made, the
19 inability to afford 90 days worth -- of notice
20 of the initial determination resulted from the
21 school -- the charter school's express request
22 for an extension of the School Board decision
23 until April.
24 That is in the materials that have been
25 provided to you. That delay was not sought,
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1 suggested, or encouraged by the District staff
2 or the Board.
3 Secondly, the School Board has acknowledged
4 and regrets that the Notice of Intended Action
5 omitted the prescribed notice concerning the
6 right to an informal hearing.
7 Immediately upon being apprised of that
8 omission, the School Board afforded the
9 opportunity for a hearing, and the
10 charter school declined to accept that
11 opportunity.
12 There's a four-step procedure:
13 Firstly an initial determination by the --
14 by the School Board; secondly, an opportunity
15 for an informal hearing; thirdly, an
16 opportunity for the appeal to the State Board
17 of Education; and finally, final agency action
18 by the School Board upon remand from the
19 State Board.
20 Regardless of the recommendation of the
21 State Board, the School Board will be holding a
22 final hearing before taking final agency
23 action.
24 Again, this is not a proceeding or a matter
25 that involves a failure of an opportunity to
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1 present the position.
2 This proceeding is also not about the
3 School Board changing the expectations of
4 students -- on student assessment. The
5 School Board has never required achievement
6 tests at the start of the year, and has not
7 held the charter school to that requirement.
8 Rather the assessments that are set forth
9 in the charter itself simply were not
10 performed. There was a schedule of assessments
11 that's in the charter. It is consistent with
12 the -- with the District's own assessment plan.
13 And recall that the charter was signed in
14 June of 1998, well before these allegations
15 regarding any change of the rules.
16 The -- the charter school clearly was aware
17 of the schedule, it simply failed to follow
18 that schedule.
19 I was a bit surprised on some of the
20 assessments that were recited by Ms. Warmack.
21 The District has not been provided those.
22 And, indeed, as -- after this proceeding
23 was initiated, we specifically requested every
24 assessment device and material that had ever
25 been used by the school during the past school
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1 year. We received only the materials that have
2 been provided to you.
3 Those materials essentially consist of
4 certain diagnostic material that are not the
5 assessment devices based upon the core
6 curriculum. And that is the problem.
7 This failure to provide or follow the
8 assessment plan that is set forth within the
9 charter has left a void in the baseline data
10 that virtually precludes measuring student
11 progress or performance. Again, it's not a
12 requirement to provide achievement testing, but
13 simply to look at, as listed in the charter,
14 the curriculum-based measurements and the
15 reading readiness assessments that are -- that
16 are set forth in the charter. That was never
17 changed.
18 Thirdly, this proceeding is not about a
19 nonrenewal for low test scores. Test scores
20 were not available at the time the School Board
21 made its initial determination to nonrenew.
22 Rather, the District has taken the
23 appropriate exercise of continuing to look at
24 every aspect, every piece of information
25 regarding the operation of the Orange Avenue
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1 Charter School, every piece that might reveal
2 some indication of student progress or
3 performance, to either confirm that initial
4 determination, or to counter it.
5 And here, the test scores are among the
6 pieces of information that the School Board has
7 looked at. And unfortunately for the charter
8 school students, that piece of information,
9 those test scores, show a very negative result.
10 Again, this is not a case about --
11 proceeding about nonrenewal for low test
12 scores. That information simply confirms
13 the Board's initial determination.
14 Finally, this proceeding is not about the
15 failure of the charter school concept, or
16 the -- or the charter school legislation.
17 Rather this proceeding, in the School Board's
18 view, is about the success of the
19 accountability provisions within the charter
20 school legislation.
21 All children can learn, and -- included --
22 including within that are at-risk students if
23 they're afforded the opportunity to learn.
24 The 94 students at the Orange Avenue
25 Charter School are not receiving that
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1 opportunity, and we believe that that's -- they
2 deserve better.
3 So then what is this proceeding about?
4 It's about accountability. It's the failure of
5 the charter school to meet the requirements for
6 student performance and progress that are
7 stated within its -- within its own charter.
8 It failed to undertake the assessments
9 that -- to which it agreed in the charter,
10 which it understood going in; it failed to
11 present any credible evidence of adequate
12 performance or progress, in the absence of
13 those materials being provided.
14 And, again, let me just digress for a
15 second. The supplemental reading program
16 materials that were provided are a diagnostics,
17 and they were performed multiple times. That's
18 not core curriculum assessments, that's not
19 what was set forth in the charter.
20 That's not the understanding -- or at least
21 the School Board's belief that the -- that the
22 charter school fully understood what it was
23 getting into when it signed onto the charter.
24 Again, the problem here is that all
25 available information indicates that the
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1 Orange Avenue Charter School students are not
2 making adequate progress.
3 The easy decision for the School Board to
4 have made would have been to have granted
5 another year, and give the charter school one
6 last opportunity to turn the corner. It made a
7 big turn after the first year on -- with
8 administrative problems that had been
9 encountered in the first year of operations.
10 Give them a third year to try.
11 The problem is there are 94 charter school
12 students. And the failure to undertake the
13 academic assessments as agreed in the -- in the
14 charter is indicative of a systemic failure
15 within the school.
16 In other words, the charter school, in the
17 view of the Board, is badly broken, and the
18 Board is unable to fix it or indicate a reason
19 or a way in which it can be -- it can be
20 rehabilitated with -- with any reasonable
21 period of time, and without serious undue harm
22 to the charter school students.
23 That is the foundation, the basis for the
24 School Board's decision.
25 The School Board has a responsibility to
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1 all of the students in St. Lucie County,
2 including those in the Orange Avenue Charter
3 School. And the School Board cannot abandon or
4 forsake those simply for the expedience of
5 making a renewal request.
6 And that's a particularly difficult
7 decision in St. Lucie County because of the
8 embracing that our county has undertaken with
9 choice. Charter schools are a part of choice.
10 St. Lucie County has a model program. We
11 have people -- districts from all over the
12 country come to us virtually every month to
13 view our choice program. And this is a part
14 and parcel of that pro-- that process.
15 But it is also about accountability. And
16 if a program is not working, it needs to be
17 stopped.
18 Here the School Board had the courage to
19 shoulder that responsibility to protect the
20 charter school students by denying the renewal.
21 And with all due respect, the School Board
22 asked that the State Board of Education do
23 likewise, and remand this matter with a
24 recommendation that the charter renewal request
25 be denied.
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1 I would like to ask that Ms. Townsend come
2 forward. Ms. Townsend, again, is the highest
3 ranking administrator for the -- with the
4 Superintendent. She is the District Liaison
5 for the Orange Avenue Charter School.
6 She has been on that campus virtually daily
7 in attempting to assist and provide all the
8 guidance that -- that can possibly be provided.
9 I'd like her to address a couple of the issues,
10 if there are any questions.
11 Thank you.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have a
13 question, Governor.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. General.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Sir, just
16 one question.
17 How many charter schools are there in
18 St. Lucie County?
19 MR. HARRELL: Mr. Attorney General, the
20 Orange Avenue Charter School is the single
21 applicant for charter school within the County.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So no one
23 has ever applied, other than -- other than --
24 MR. HARRELL: That's -- that's correct.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Please.
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1 MS. TOWNSEND: Good morning.
2 Mr. Governor, and Cabinet, it is my
3 pleasure to address you, although this is a
4 very painful undertaking that I'm having to --
5 to take here this morning, primarily because I
6 have worked so closely with the individuals who
7 make up the charter school.
8 However, I have been an educator in
9 St. Lucie County for 35 years. I served as a
10 teacher, a principal, director of elementary
11 education, and now Associate Superintendent of
12 Schools in St. Lucie County.
13 And being about children is what I am. I
14 am an educator for children.
15 And how do we get this ox cart out of the
16 ditch is the big question, for we have -- if we
17 are going to error, we have to error to the
18 side of the children who attend this school.
19 These children deserve better, they're
20 entitled to better, and we have a
21 responsibility to provide a better
22 instructional program for them.
23 Now, if I can address the assessment
24 notion. It is true that because of the
25 tremendous problems that took place during the
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1 first charter year, even with assessment --
2 because those educators in the room will know
3 one would not normally give an achievement test
4 three times in one year. Pretty soon, you see
5 it often enough, you're going to do well,
6 whether you've achieved or not.
7 So it was for that reason that the
8 Superintendent and I met with the principal to
9 say, we need to look at a way of assessing the
10 students. And a plan had been developed for
11 St. Lucie County.
12 And if you will notice, the plan that was
13 presented to her -- to her Board was developed
14 from the assessment plan that had been
15 developed by St. Lucie County.
16 But in addition to that, I attended several
17 charter school conferences around the state so
18 that I could give them the best assistance that
19 I could possibly give them. And we received
20 information that all charter schools were
21 expected to gather baseline data upon students
22 entering the school.
23 That holds true today, it held true at that
24 time.
25 We were able to get a workshop session
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1 where both boards could come together, and that
2 we could go over those requirements with them.
3 And it was in that Board meeting of
4 September 21st that we were able to share with
5 them the need for having baseline data.
6 Now, that doesn't preclude the necessary
7 diagnostic information that is needed in order
8 to do a good job of teaching. Because one will
9 know -- not know where to begin if they don't
10 at first administer some sort of diagnostic
11 assessment.
12 And in St. Lucie County, we made a
13 conscious choice not to administer a national
14 achievement test to Grades 1, 2, and 3.
15 However, a curriculum-based assessment was
16 a part of our assessment plan, and it was also
17 a part of the assessment plan that was
18 presented to the Orange Avenue Board.
19 And I'm -- I'm really sorry to say that
20 today is the very first time that I have heard
21 anything about that particular piece of
22 assessment, because our attorney continuously
23 asked for that information. What was given to
24 us was additional diagnostic information on a
25 program which is intended to be a supplemental
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1 program that I was not familiar with.
2 And as a result of that, our School Board
3 had little or no information to go on at the
4 time they had to make the decision.
5 However, since the State assessment
6 information has come back to us, we have
7 certainly had an affirmation that the like of
8 indication from the charter school itself was
9 just not there, because we have one school that
10 has a higher poverty level in St. Lucie County
11 than Orange Avenue Charter School. It is a
12 second.
13 And we have taken a look at those students,
14 and those students did better. And the
15 students in Orange Avenue deserve better. They
16 are entitled to more.
17 And because we are so committed to ensuring
18 that these students just have the very best
19 that they can possibly have, we have already
20 shared with this Board a suggested transitional
21 plan in an effort to get these children caught
22 up.
23 Because if we don't catch them up in
24 elementary school, you're going to hold us
25 accountable in middle and high school, and we
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1 can't turn that around, because I believe that
2 there could be irrevocable damage done to young
3 children.
4 And I say to this Cabinet today that I'm
5 only here to speak to you about children.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: Question.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Question.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner?
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Are you -- are you
11 familiar with the disaggregated data for
12 St. Lucie County schools?
13 MS. TOWNSEND: I am somewhat familiar, but
14 not as familiar as Sandra Wolfe, who is the
15 person who receives and -- and provides that
16 information to us. She's with us today if we
17 need a question --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
19 MS. TOWNSEND: -- an answer from her.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. I'd just
21 like to know if she could give us an idea of --
22 take the other low poverty school, and look at
23 the disaggregated data in regards to race, and
24 see where the difference is in the FCAT
25 results.
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1 MS. TOWNSEND: I think -- I think she can
2 answer that question.
3 In fact, we've taken a look at the lowest
4 14 students in that school to try and determine
5 where they were, because Orange Avenue tested
6 14 children.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Orange Avenue tested
8 14 children?
9 MS. WOLFE: Yes, sir.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. But they'd
11 only tested 4th grade.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
13 MS. WOLFE: Good morning.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Or maybe 4th and
15 5th, I don't know.
16 MS. WOLFE: I thought it was nerve-racking
17 standing in front of the School Board the first
18 time I did that.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is a lot better than
20 that.
21 MS. WOLFE: I know, because --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: This gets a little
23 bit higher. You --
24 MS. WOLFE: This is the Governor.
25 I'm Sandra Wolfe. I am the Director of
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1 assessment for St. Lucie County.
2 I'd like to share a little bit of
3 information and try to respond to
4 Commissioner Gallagher's question.
5 First of all, we did feel that it was
6 important to compare the performance of the
7 children at the Orange Avenue Charter School
8 with a like group of children, and not with
9 just the general population of children,
10 because they do serve just at-risk students.
11 That's why we selected C.A. Moore
12 Elementary, which had 98 percent of its
13 children on free and reduced lunch. And the
14 majority of children there are black and
15 Hispanic children.
16 If we look at the FCAT reading score,
17 average reading score for the Orange Avenue
18 Charter School, we find that their average
19 score is 183. That's on a scale of 100 to 500,
20 with the lowest score being 100.
21 If we compare that, first of all, with
22 C.A. Moore 4th grade students, who are very
23 similar in make-up to the children at the
24 Orange Avenue School, we find that they have an
25 average score of 267.
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1 If we wanted to compare a like number of
2 children, there were three teachers in
3 4th grade at C.A. Moore Elementary. And their
4 average FCAT scores were 24-- let me see here
5 where I have that -- 264, 265, and 273.
6 So for a like group of children, there's a
7 significant and marked difference between the
8 performance.
9 To take it a step farther, we al-- I also
10 looked at our Dropout Prevention Program
11 children. I looked at the three schools with
12 the highest poverty rate. Our
13 Dropout Prevention is in 4th and 5th grade.
14 If -- in looking at the three schools who
15 had Dropout Prevention in 4th grade, and
16 looking at their FCAT scores, we see that those
17 three schools of Dropout Prevention students
18 only had an average score in one school of 245,
19 in another school of 258, and in another school
20 of 260.
21 Those children qualified to be in the
22 Dropout Prevention Program because of poor
23 student performance, poor grades, and
24 discipline problems.
25 So again, it was a comparison across like
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1 characteristics.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: How many students
3 were tested in the dropout grades?
4 MS. WOLFE: There were 18 in one
5 classroom -- about 18 to 21 students in each of
6 those three classrooms.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So the three you
8 just gave us, the 245, 258, and 260 --
9 MS. WOLFE: Yes, sir.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- had about
11 18 students in each?
12 MS. WOLFE: Yes, sir.
13 If we look at Florida Writes for
14 C.A. Moore, which is also again that high
15 poverty school, the children at C.A. Moore this
16 year had an average score in Florida Writes of
17 2.9. Seventy-three percent of the kids in that
18 school scored a 3 or better.
19 At the Orange Avenue Charter School, their
20 average score was a 2. And this is on a scale
21 of 0 to 6 in Florida Writes. And 14 percent of
22 their children scored at a level 3.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Same percentage of kids
24 more or less taking the tests? I mean --
25 MS. WOLFE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
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1 And looking at those same dropout
2 prevention programs that I was talking about in
3 those three schools where the numbers are
4 similar from one school to the next, the -- one
5 school had a 2.5, one had a 3.0, and one had a
6 2.8, and that reflects Dropout Prevention
7 children just in 4th grade.
8 So that's a comparison of like populations
9 on the high stakes testing in the
10 state of Florida that we think are most
11 important, because they measure the benchmarks
12 of the Sunshine State Standards.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary Harris, did you
14 have --
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just -- you clarified
16 a lot. My -- my initial concern was that
17 someone made baseline tests. And it's my
18 understanding that the Orange Avenue School
19 originally took the Metropolitan test, and then
20 y'all required them to move to the Stanford
21 test.
22 There obviously was a comparison from one
23 year to the next.
24 So my concern was at what baseline had they
25 started, had they improved. But the overall
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1 comparisons to other schools of similar
2 students is --
3 MS. WOLFE: Tell the story.
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- is disconcerting.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, the -- on --
6 on reading, I don't -- did you touch base on
7 reading?
8 MS. WOLFE: Yes, sir. All the FCAT scores
9 I gave you were reading, because Orange Avenue
10 only goes through 4th grade, so they only have
11 reading assessment data. And that's what we
12 compared.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. Well, in
14 the disaggregated data I have for your
15 District, shows that only 24 percent, both in
16 1997 and '98, of your black students were at
17 the 50th percentile and above.
18 Does that --
19 MS. WOLFE: On --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- ring with you?
21 MS. WOLFE: -- on which test?
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: On reading.
23 MS. WOLFE: Was -- it must have been an
24 achievement test for the 50th percentile?
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It was the FCAT.
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1 MS. WOLFE: Okay.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER:
3 Twenty-four percent were at the 50th percentile
4 above in reading for your black students,
5 county-wide.
6 MS. WOLFE: Yes, sir. I don't have that
7 data in front of me, so I'm sure you're right.
8 You're the Commissioner of Education.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Don't take it too
10 far.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You're going to
12 get it. If you don't have it yet, I'll give it
13 to you.
14 But -- and it didn't change year-to-year.
15 And I'm wondering what that -- what you --
16 what that number is for the Orange --
17 MS. WOLFE: The Orange Avenue Charter --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- Charter School.
19 MS. WOLFE: -- School?
20 A hundred percent of their students fell in
21 Level 1. I mean, that -- on the FCAT.
22 That's -- that's the only data that I can give
23 you for sure.
24 And the other would be that because they
25 did take the Stanford Achievement Test this
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1 year, the Stanford 9, and we also took the
2 Stanford 9, on our Stanford scores -- and this
3 is comparing again that same school that had
4 like characteristics. I can give you that
5 comparison.
6 C.A. Moore's total reading national
7 percentile was 41, Orange Avenue Charter
8 School's total reading percentile was 4.
9 The total math for 4th grade was 52, and
10 the total math for the Orange Avenue Charter
11 School was 7.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
13 Thank you.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Could I, Governor,
15 raise a -- ask a question, please.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Really for
18 Ms. Townsend.
19 MS. TOWNSEND: Yes.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The -- you had a
21 meeting on the 21st of September, I believe you
22 said, where you discussed the preassessment
23 program that was to be in place in the
24 charter school.
25 MS. TOWNSEND: That is correct.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And what was your
2 anticipation on when the assessment --
3 preassessment, if that's the right term --
4 baseline assessment, would be conducted, when
5 it would be executed? Did you have some sort
6 of agreement on that?
7 MS. TOWNSEND: Well, the plan that was
8 designed for our District, and -- as well as
9 for Orange Avenue, was September.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: To be done in
11 September. Okay.
12 MS. TOWNSEND: That's correct.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- and when did
14 you find out that that baseline test had not
15 been administered?
16 MS. TOWNSEND: Well, I went over to do --
17 we -- this came from a checklist that was
18 developed by Dr. Wooley Cathy Brown (sic),
19 I believe, who works with charter schools
20 around the state.
21 And various ones of us had different
22 sections of the checklist. I was in charge of
23 the assessment portion. And based on an
24 interview from the principal, I was able to
25 indicate that the pretest had been done.
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1 Now, recognizing that at the lower --
2 primary grades, that that would have been a
3 curriculum based test, not a standardized --
4 nationally standardized test.
5 And, of course, it's through an interview
6 that was with the principal. And, of course, I
7 was able to check that off. But --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So --
9 MS. TOWNSEND: -- but the --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So your initial
11 indication that -- if I understand you, was
12 that the baseline testing or assessment had
13 been done?
14 MS. TOWNSEND: That is correct. However --
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So that was in -- in
16 October sometime, I guess, or shortly after,
17 was it?
18 MS. TOWNSEND: No. This -- it was a bit
19 later than that, because with the principal
20 being new, and having been a new principal
21 once, I recognize that sometimes it takes a
22 little bit longer to get things done.
23 So this must have taken place near
24 December --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Uh-hum.
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1 When -- when did -- when did you really
2 find out then that the baseline assessment had
3 not been done?
4 MS. TOWNSEND: When the attorney requested
5 the data to be provided to him was when I was
6 very much aware. But also it was not there
7 when -- in March -- on March 1st when the
8 interim report was provided to us.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So up -- up until
10 that time, you were under the understanding
11 that the -- the test had -- the assessment had
12 been done.
13 MS. TOWNSEND: That is correct.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is it really true that you
15 went to the school every day as the -- as your
16 counsel said, that you were that engaged in the
17 school, and --
18 MS. TOWNSEND: Initially I -- I went almost
19 every day, because you -- so much had happened
20 the year before, that I wanted this principal
21 to know that she had the support of the
22 St. Lucie County School District. And I made
23 myself available to her.
24 And as a result, the first several months
25 of -- of school, yes, I went over there almost
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1 daily --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I say that, because
3 it's just -- it -- the -- the difference of
4 opinion of fact and how this works, the timing
5 of all this, and just what we've been trying to
6 deal with, it just seems so surprising that
7 if -- and if you were there, you were there.
8 I mean, I'm not saying you weren't.
9 But to have this kind of misunderstanding,
10 assuming that there were good intentions on
11 both sides, is just surprising. You know what
12 I mean? I mean, does that --
13 MS. TOWNSEND: I do understand -- I do
14 understand what you're saying.
15 I want you to know -- also know, I was very
16 careful not to impose the District's views, nor
17 my views on the charter school, because I
18 recognize that that's why you have a charter
19 school, so that you can do it your way.
20 So I was there more in support of this --
21 this principal than anything else. After she
22 and I attended one of the charter school
23 conferences, it became very aware that there
24 was not that kind of working relationship
25 necessarily in several other charter schools
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1 around the state. And we were just real happy
2 to provide that support to her.
3 She was new to St. Lucie County. I believe
4 that this is her first time being a principal
5 in the state of Florida, so she needed that
6 kind of support. So this was more of a
7 professional support system for her.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question.
9 Just with reference to Mr. Harrell's
10 statement about that this was -- the
11 Orange Avenue School is an important part of
12 St. Lucie County's choice -- school choice
13 program, I -- I didn't really understand that
14 from the standpoint, isn't this the only
15 charter school in St. Lucie County?
16 MR. HARRELL: Yes.
17 Madam Secretary, my statement related to
18 the aspect of the availability of -- of charter
19 school. And, yes, the School District had high
20 hopes regarding the Orange Avenue Charter
21 School. And it was a painful decision, as
22 Ms. Townsend has indicated, to -- to come to
23 the conclusion that -- that was inescapable
24 beginning in March, based upon the information
25 that simply did not come forward.
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1 We saw this as a -- as a component, but a
2 component that did not work.
3 Our choice program, for instance, provides
4 for innovation in academics and within the
5 curriculum. Programs that work will be
6 replicated in other choice zones. Programs
7 that do not work, that becomes manifest quite
8 early with the choice program, and they're
9 stopped.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: And so just to -- for
11 further explanation, what other opportunities
12 exist -- you know, you said that the choice
13 program is important in St. Lucie County, are
14 there other programs that are going -- ongoing
15 that are successful?
16 MR. HARRELL: Our entire school system is
17 built around choice.
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay.
19 MR. HARRELL: Within each choice zone,
20 different -- different curriculums at the
21 elementary level. And as Ms. Wolfe was
22 pointing out to you, some of the schools,
23 because of the need of the demographic of the
24 individual school, they will have a Dropout
25 Prevention Program.
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: Right.
2 MR. HARRELL: For instance, those are
3 site-based management determinations when a
4 site-based management decision -- the school
5 improvement plan works, it typically is
6 replicated, it is picked up in another school
7 as having problems in attracting students. And
8 that's the way that the program works.
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. Thanks.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Let -- let me try to
11 understand this exactly.
12 This -- the school was being watched very
13 closely, being supported apparently, at least
14 an attempt to support what the school is doing.
15 And -- I mean, I -- you talk about
16 accountability. I -- I could cite a document
17 signed January 29th, 1999, that talks about how
18 this school is doing quite well, and expected
19 to be around for quite some time, and do--
20 you know, really doing its job, please give us
21 over a half a million dollars so that we can
22 continue to operate.
23 This is the -- this is the SIT
24 application --
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Uh-hum.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- which was signed
2 on the 29th of January that says we accept --
3 we are -- the viability and felt assured of the
4 school's chance to succeed.
5 All very positive comments on this request
6 for five hundred and some odd thousand dollars.
7 And then a month-and-a-half later, because
8 of a failure to provide a baseline assessment,
9 the school is now to be dissolved.
10 Is that the situation here?
11 MS. TOWNSEND: In January, there was every
12 reason for us to believe that this school was
13 finally headed in the -- the right direction.
14 And I believe when things -- things began
15 to break down was as -- the principal had to be
16 everything for the school.
17 And in her own language that she provided
18 to her Board, she was a disciplinarian, she was
19 the behavior specialist, she was a grant
20 writer, the school improvement facilitator, the
21 PTO organizer, the fund raiser, the public
22 relations expert, the curriculum specialist,
23 and the counselor.
24 She -- after a while, it was just
25 overwhelming for one person to try and do all
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1 of these things.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: General, the -- isn't it
3 also true, based on the -- as it relates to
4 the -- I forgot about the SIT funding aspects
5 of this, that the School District in its
6 partnership with the charter school, took a
7 sizable percentage of that money.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Oh, absolutely.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: You didn't mention that
10 part.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Of the 500,000,
12 they took it all.
13 MR. SWANSON: Five hundred and fifty
14 thousand.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: How much?
16 MR. SWANSON: They took 500,000 of last
17 year's fifty. There was 35,000 in cash used
18 for --
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
20 MS. TOWNSEND: My point is: In January,
21 that was -- there was no question that the
22 school was moving in that direction.
23 It really wasn't until we received the
24 annual report and started to look at numbers.
25 My purpose was not to go over there and -- and
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1 count numbers, but to talk with the principal
2 and receive information.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But --
4 MS. TOWNSEND: But when those numbers --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- that --
6 MS. TOWNSEND: -- started to hit the paper,
7 we started to see something totally different.
8 Now, as far as the SIT money, you -- I'm
9 going to have to --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'm not trying to
11 put you on the spot on the SIT money. What I'm
12 trying to sort out is, you know, here -- here
13 the school apparently is doing quite well under
14 considerable supervision, or certainly
15 observation.
16 And then suddenly in -- a month-and-a-half
17 later, the whole program goes south, and it
18 goes south because there was not a -- a
19 baseline -- or a baseline data assessment done.
20 And -- and the -- and the results of the --
21 of the assessments that you did have didn't
22 show any progress -- there wasn't any progress
23 to show, because you didn't have a baseline.
24 But you compared it to some other school,
25 and now you just acknowledge that the media got
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1 involved in this, and I'm sure they were really
2 poking out something about newspaper -- the
3 scores in the newspaper --
4 MS. TOWNSEND: Oh, no, no, no. I think
5 that was a misstatement.
6 I'm saying that the principal had to serve
7 as the public relations --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No, no, no, no.
9 I -- I'm sorry if I confused what you meant.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: But isn't it the case
11 that -- the reason the baseline assessment
12 didn't exist, if you take the -- the General's
13 analogy one step farther, everything was fine
14 January '99 when the application was signed.
15 Then there were no baseline assessments,
16 and this is what caused concern. But the issue
17 that there -- there were no baseline
18 assessments was in the original contract the
19 charter school contracted to use, which was
20 signed for by the School Board, the
21 Metropolitan tests, the School Board asked that
22 they switch to the Stanford test.
23 At that point, you couldn't compare
24 Metropolitan to Sanford, wh-- I mean, which
25 they had complied, which they did do. So,
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1 therefore, there were no baseline tests. The
2 Stanford test was the first time that they had
3 taken it, based on your request -- and the
4 State -- and the School Board' request.
5 MS. TOWNSEND: Please let me clear -- clear
6 that up.
7 There was an Assessment Committee formed at
8 Orange Avenue Charter School. The District did
9 not say to Orange Avenue that you have to use
10 the Stanford. They asked us if we could score
11 the test. Well, we only have the ability to
12 score the Stanford.
13 Now, they could have continued to use the
14 Metropolitan. But they would have had to hand
15 score it.
16 The Assessment Committee that convened a
17 meeting which I attended indicated, we don't
18 want to go back through what we went through
19 last year with the hand scoring and the
20 questions raised about the validity.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
22 MS. TOWNSEND: We want it to be machine
23 scored.
24 Well, if you want it to be machine scored,
25 we only have the capability to score the
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1 Stanford.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, wait a
3 second. Wait a second.
4 MS. TOWNSEND: With our software that we
5 use.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Wait a second.
7 Machine scoring is set according to the answer
8 sheet that goes through it --
9 MS. TOWNSEND: They didn't use --
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- and it's --
11 MS. TOWNSEND: -- the answer --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- usually set --
13 MS. TOWNSEND: -- sheets, sir. They used
14 the books. They used the Metropolitan
15 booklets.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So there were no
17 answer sheets?
18 MS. TOWNSEND: There were no answer sheets.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: To run through the
20 score.
21 MS. TOWNSEND: That is correct.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is really --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- problem than I
25 thought.
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1 MS. TOWNSEND: That is correct.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: The -- the fundamental
3 concept behind charter schools are that they
4 have -- there's a contract between the School
5 District and the school.
6 And the student achievement wasn't even a
7 criteria in the contract, was it? I mean, you
8 didn't say, you have to have a certain number
9 of kids reach a certain level of -- on the FCAT
10 or Florida Writes or anything, right?
11 I mean, so this -- which is, by the way,
12 I think wrong --
13 MS. TOWNSEND: They did though.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think that --
15 MS. TOWNSEND: They did.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the School District
17 ought to require a performance criteria --
18 MS. TOWNSEND: Uh-hum.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- for charter schools.
20 I mean, how do we -- you're -- you're -- you're
21 saying, as I hear it, the test scores look
22 horrible, this became public, so we're not
23 going to renew the contract. But the contract
24 doesn't have a performance criteria in it for
25 you to do that.
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1 Is that -- you want to --
2 MS. TOWNSEND: It is my understanding --
3 and maybe -- maybe I don't understand the whole
4 concept of charter schools.
5 But it is my understanding that the charter
6 school, and even -- all schools around Florida,
7 will determine -- know what the obje-- the
8 goals are, and determine what will become their
9 measure of adequate progress. Orange Avenue
10 did that in a school improvement plan.
11 And in that plan, they made the
12 determination of what it was that they were
13 going to do. It was taken from a menu of
14 instruments that had been developed by the
15 District. They were not told which ones you
16 had to administer.
17 But -- and -- and depending on the
18 instructional program that is used in all of
19 our schools would help determine which
20 instrument they would use.
21 For instance, one of our schools uses a
22 program called Success for All. Well, they use
23 a different instrument from those schools who
24 do not.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand that. But
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1 there's -- can I ask the -- the counselor:
2 What are the specific contractual obligations
3 that this school did not fulfill? And we
4 haven't gotten to that part. And I haven't --
5 that's not clear to me.
6 What are the specific contractual
7 obligations that this -- that the school did
8 not fulfill, in your mind.
9 MR. HARRELL: Governor, within the material
10 that is at -- that's called Attachment E, which
11 is the assessment plan within the charter, are
12 assessments, dates they are to be performed,
13 and also objectives.
14 And within our response, we've recited --
15 attempted to recite which those are. And I --
16 I will just touch upon about four or five of
17 those.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
19 MR. HARRELL: Kindergarten readiness
20 checklist: First grade, curriculum-based
21 measurement, reading; second grade,
22 curriculum-based measurement, reading;
23 third grade, curriculum-based measurement, and
24 reading; fourth grade, Florida Writes and --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is 98-99?
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1 MR. HARRELL: This is 98-99, yes --
2 yes, sir.
3 And again, 3rd grade, one of your
4 objectives, Governor Bush, 65 percent of the
5 students will make at least nine months growth.
6 That's a clear objective.
7 Again, 4th grade, 70 -- 70 percent of all
8 4th grade students will make at least
9 nine months growth.
10 We have no data to support any of those
11 things. We have no data to indicate that
12 the -- that the assessment mechanisms that were
13 set forth in their charter were undertaken.
14 Nor do we have any data that would indicate
15 that those objec-- objective objectives were
16 undertaken -- were -- were achieved.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No --
18 MR. HARRELL: That's -- that's the absence
19 of progress.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: What I'm looking at here
21 says 97-98. When you went through those --
22 recited those assessments, the -- I got --
23 you -- this -- your Exhibit E is, like, a
24 monster here. So --
25 MR. HARRELL: It's -- it's Attachment E
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1 to --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. I got -- that's what
3 it is. Yeah. It's a -- it's about 100 pages.
4 MR. HARRELL: Actually, no, Attachment E is
5 about four pages, five pages to the charter.
6 It is Attachment E to the charter. And I
7 apologize, I do not have the page number in the
8 addendum.
9 MS. BENTON: It's Attachment E to the
10 present charter, not last year's charter.
11 And that's the charter school's addendum,
12 page 2-- starting on page 249 of that charter
13 school addendum.
14 And if I may, I'd like to respond to what
15 has been said to be a violation of the -- of
16 the charter. Because the charter has not been
17 violated, or has not been breached.
18 First of all, I said -- I've said several
19 times that there has been a breakdown in
20 communication. And I have in my hand something
21 that was just faxed to me just today. And it
22 consists of the readiness checklist, which is
23 the kindergarten assessment.
24 Obviously the charter school apologizes if
25 this did not get into the hands of Mr. Harrell.
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1 But we do have that checklist. That checklist
2 was, indeed, done.
3 So there was no violation there.
4 Now, as far as curriculum-based assessments
5 go, two points on that. The failure-free,
6 which we did a lot of statistical data on, is
7 to the extent that it is, in part -- in part,
8 related to the reading curriculum, not the
9 whole. It is supplemental.
10 But to the extent that it is a part of
11 that, that is curriculum-based assessment. And
12 Dr. Keith in her analysis stated that this
13 clearly shows that the students have
14 progressed, and that they have progressed
15 10 percent. That's in -- in our -- our brief.
16 The first brief.
17 Now, also the teacher, who is here that we
18 want to make a -- a short statement to you,
19 indicates, Governor, that she personally gave
20 the curriculum-based measurement -- reading --
21 you know it's not math and reading, it's not
22 general. It's just reading.
23 She's a 2nd grade teacher. And it's my
24 understanding that she will talk about this,
25 that each of those teachers did, indeed, give
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1 the curriculum-based measurement for reading.
2 I believe she also did it for math.
3 So those for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade were
4 done.
5 Now, as far as not taking the
6 Florida Writes and the Florida -- the FCAT,
7 they took it in the 4th grade. They did that.
8 The achievement test was the Stanford. And
9 the -- again, the problem is that the -- the
10 charter does not call for the assessment
11 that -- that we're hearing from the
12 School Board.
13 And although there may have been later
14 discussions about it, it was never brought back
15 and said, we've got to amend this charter, and
16 we're going to put it in here. So --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah, General.
18 MS. BENTON: So it shows a compliance
19 with --
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If I --
21 MS. BENTON: -- the charter.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- can just
23 ask one question, if I can.
24 The counselor said that -- that you denied
25 having -- that you did not want to have an
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1 informal review by the School Board.
2 MS. BENTON: Well, the reason --
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What
4 happened?
5 MS. BENTON: -- the -- the reason for that
6 is there were two parts to that statute,
7 Mr. Attorney General. One of them has to do
8 with the 90-day rule. And at the time that we
9 had gotten that request on May 25th, we were
10 beyond the 90-day rule. That was -- that was
11 one point.
12 So that meant if you look -- look at that,
13 then we should not even be subjected to losing
14 the charter because the procedure had not been
15 complied with in terms of the 90-day rule.
16 In terms of giving us the informal hearing
17 within that statute, it wasn't done obviously
18 within the -- you know, 14 days, because they
19 never told us about it.
20 But the problem with that, I think the
21 school felt, we've already not only appealed,
22 we've had to go to the problem of having
23 counsel file the brief, and the appeal was
24 way -- you know, we had gotten it well into
25 the -- we hadn't gotten a response from the
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1 school yet, but we had filed our brief by the
2 time that offer was made.
3 And it was just --
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Would you
5 want to have a review -- would you want to have
6 an informal review by the School Board, or no?
7 MS. BENTON: Right now?
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes.
9 MS. BENTON: As we speak -- as we speak, it
10 appears that there are a lot of factors into --
11 that go into -- to that decision, and I'm
12 not -- I'm just counsel --
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Just simple
14 question, yes or no. I mean --
15 MS. BENTON: Well, this is a review right
16 here --
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
18 MS. BENTON: -- we feel.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
20 MS. BENTON: I would -- I would submit that
21 this is the review. And if the School --
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It may
23 not be --
24 MS. BENTON: If we get a -- pardon me?
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You may not
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1 want this review.
2 MS. BENTON: This one?
3 This one you're -- this one?
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: She's --
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You may not
6 want this review.
7 MR. SWANSON: Could I just say something
8 as -- as the treasurer?
9 The cost was not in our budgets to have to
10 defend ourself. And we found that the
11 additional expense of defending ourselves on
12 two -- on two fronts, from the -- from the
13 School Board here, and then at the -- the local
14 School District, was just beyond our means. We
15 didn't have the funds.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Gallagher, do
17 you have any thoughts on this, to bring this
18 kind of to some closure perhaps?
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, let me ask
20 the lady that -- that other question, if I
21 could, from the review -- the assessment lady.
22 (Governor Bush exited the room.)
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: There we go.
24 What kind of special programs are you doing
25 for migrants in -- in your school system that
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1 may be -- may be very low scoring?
2 MS. WOLFE: I would -- I'm going to defer
3 to Mrs. Townsend to answer that question --
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. Well, may--
5 stay there, and let Mrs. --
6 MS. WOLFE: Yeah, I will.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- Townsend answer
8 that. I -- I figured she may know that anyway.
9 MS. TOWNSEND: We provide a migrant
10 advocacy program that provides after school
11 programs and summer institutes for our
12 migrants.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Have -- have you
14 offered anything like that to the students that
15 exist at this charter school?
16 MS. TOWNSEND: No.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Is there a reason
18 why not?
19 MS. TOWNSEND: I --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You're responsible
21 for them with the money you give them, and you
22 don't want to give them any more help?
23 MS. TOWNSEND: No. We give them the money,
24 but I -- I don't tell them what they -- they --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I didn't say tell
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1 them. I said, have you offered to them any of
2 those?
3 MS. TOWNSEND: Oh, they have access to
4 everything that St. Lucie County has.
5 Absolutely everything.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So if they asked
7 for after school and summer institutes for
8 their students, y'all would provide it.
9 MS. TOWNSEND: They asked for summer, and
10 they are getting summer instructions.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Is it
12 supplemental --
13 MS. TOWNSEND: In fact, they're in summer
14 school right now.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Supplemental, in
16 addition to what they're normally paid.
17 MS. TOWNSEND: Yeah. There is no cost to
18 them for the summer program, because their
19 students are in class with students of --
20 (Governor Bush entered the room.)
21 MS. TOWNSEND: -- other schools who are in
22 summer school this summer.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And is that the
24 same thing you do with the migrant students, or
25 they get special treatment for their summer
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1 institute, or their summer --
2 MS. TOWNSEND: The migrant students who
3 qualify for summer school will certainly be
4 able to -- and they are participating.
5 But there is an additional summer institute
6 that is specific for migrant students that the
7 advocacy program provides for them.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So that's in
9 addition to what the others get.
10 MS. TOWNSEND: That is correct.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And even -- even
12 with all that, we found from '97 to '98, the
13 migrant population's percentage above the
14 50 percentile in reading went from 22 to
15 19 percent.
16 MS. TOWNSEND: I -- that could very well be
17 the case. And I would -- would just say --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The top --
19 MS. TOWNSEND: -- we don't always test the
20 same migrant students.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I understand. You
22 don't always test the same 4th grade students
23 either.
24 MS. TOWNSEND: But I -- I don't -- I don't
25 mean just test them, I mean instruct them
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1 either, because they're coming and going all
2 the time. And our -- our District, the
3 mobility rate is quite high in -- in our
4 District.
5 And, Commissioner, I know that there have
6 been some real gains for all students. But at
7 the same time, I am the first to say, the gap
8 still exists, and we are doing everything that
9 we can to close that gap.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. Thank you.
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor, I'm --
12 I'm sorry.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Secretary.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: He -- the Commissioner
15 was still --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Governor, members
17 of the -- the Board, I'm concerned about the
18 outcome of -- of what's -- what's happening in
19 this school.
20 I also recognize that they've had a hard
21 time getting started. If St. Lucie County had
22 more than one charter school, I'd probably be
23 saying that maybe the other ones are doing well
24 and this one's not, and we probably should
25 close it.
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1 But they don't have any other ones, for
2 maybe -- I don't know what reasons. Maybe
3 nobody else has applied. Maybe they have so
4 many seats that they don't have -- the class is
5 so small, nobody wants to have a charter
6 school, I don't know what reason.
7 But I really think that if the school
8 system, and the charter school people would get
9 together to see to it that these students do
10 well, that they would.
11 And maybe we should look at giving them
12 another year to work together and make it
13 happen. Because it's the only charter school
14 that exists in that county, and -- and I
15 recognize that there's some major challenges
16 there.
17 But I also think that we should have ex--
18 high expectations for those students, which
19 means a lot of work, after school work, summer
20 school work.
21 And I just throw that out because I -- I
22 want to see charter schools do well, and I want
23 to see quite a few of them, if we can have
24 them, to -- to give an alternative to students.
25 And we're about -- if we go along with
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1 the Board here, we're going to eliminate the
2 only one that is an opportunity in that
3 particular county.
4 And I just throw that out for -- my -- just
5 my gut feelings on it. I didn't come here with
6 a -- with a preconceived idea one way or the
7 other.
8 Certainly on -- student performance is a --
9 is a major concern of mine. These students are
10 going to have a hard time catching up, whether
11 they're in that charter school, or whether they
12 go into the public schools at this particular
13 point. And we really should be student
14 oriented.
15 And so I'm -- I'm -- have mixed emotions on
16 whether they can come up faster in that charter
17 school in small groupings, or whether they
18 could go into the public school and do it. But
19 I believe if the two work together, they can do
20 it.
21 So I just throw that out for my comments,
22 and --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: So you're -- you're
24 recommending that we remand this back to the
25 School Board?
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think that'd
2 probably be -- be what we should do.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Reject and
4 remand?
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Beg your pardon?
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Reject and
7 remand back?
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Reject and remand,
9 and -- and hope that they recognize the
10 importance of helping a -- a school -- their
11 only charter school be successful.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: What about the funding?
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: The -- what, the
14 SIT funding?
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: Uh-hum.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: That --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's really a --
18 that's the Board's choice to use. And I would
19 hope that they would use it appropriately to
20 help this school be successful.
21 That's sort of the method by which they
22 collected it. Although there is no requirement
23 that they -- although they have to put it in
24 their -- their request, there's no requirement
25 that they spend it there. I think there might
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1 be some moral obligations figured along the
2 line. But that's the -- that's the District's
3 decision.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
5 also --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: General.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I think
8 that by not having had that informal hearing,
9 for whatever reason it might be, you're not
10 before the School Board where you have the
11 elected officials hearing your problem, and
12 many of them, maybe for the first time.
13 And I think by having an informal hearing,
14 or a hearing of some type before the
15 School Board, I think might really help out
16 this issue completely.
17 And I agree with -- with the Education --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I --
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- Education
20 Commissioner.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- one of the reasons -- a
22 good question about why there weren't other
23 charter schools.
24 To St. Lucie County's credit, they do have
25 the best public school choice program in -- in
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1 this state, and maybe one of the best in the
2 country. And perhaps that explains partially
3 why there isn't more charter schools.
4 My trouble with this is that, for whatever
5 reason, the contract was not clearly student
6 achievement focused. I mean, that -- that
7 ought to be what charter schools are about.
8 The -- you know, we -- I have some experience
9 in this.
10 And it ought to be -- it ought to be driven
11 by ensuring that children learn, and giving a
12 more flourishing environment where they try new
13 things to make it happen.
14 Had that contractual obligation been in
15 place, and based on the assessments that I see
16 here in that page -- I now found the
17 four-pager -- it says here that the adequate
18 progress is -- is determined by achieving one
19 of the two objectives. And one -- the
20 objectives are not rigorous in terms of student
21 achievement. Their objectives are to establish
22 a baseline data for all students in the FCAT
23 test.
24 Well, the -- the students took the FCAT
25 test. They've -- they've established the
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1 baseline -- baseline. And same with
2 Florida Writes, the kids that were qualified to
3 take it, took it.
4 The only one that might not have made it is
5 the 70 percent of 4th graders will achieve
6 nine months growth. And because of what
7 appears to be a lot of confusion about that,
8 the assessment -- the baseline data was not set
9 up.
10 So I would -- I support the -- the
11 recommendation, but I would urge that should
12 this school go on, that there be real world
13 performance criteria established in this
14 contract that's easy for folks like us to
15 understand, and that there be an achievement
16 orientation at this school that's second to
17 none, or that it should be revoked the next
18 year.
19 You -- Mr. Superintendent, you've been very
20 quiet. Do you want to help us out here if
21 we're confused?
22 MR. VOGEL: Yes.
23 Thank you very much, Governor Bush, and --
24 and Cabinet.
25 Just to pick up where you left off, because
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1 we are a choice school district, we were very
2 supportive of the charter school concept when
3 they came before us for the 97-98 school year.
4 In fact, we worked with them in every way
5 we could. And during that first year, they had
6 major problems with mismanagement. And we did
7 go ahead and support the continuation on it.
8 We also that year had concerns about the
9 assessment program which they utilized.
10 Because of the misuse of that Metropolitan
11 test, as they indicated, they were testing
12 several times there.
13 But if you'll look at my recommendations
14 that I made, I did go ahead and recommended it
15 continue, because it appeared that they had
16 made some progress with student achievement.
17 Well, what happened, as we were talking
18 with Mrs. Warmack, we found out from their own
19 admission that they themselves had some concern
20 about the data that they had given us. So I
21 was very concerned about that, because that was
22 one of the fundamental reasons I made my
23 recommendation to continue the program.
24 So this year -- so during the summer, we
25 met -- Mrs. Townsend and I met with
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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1 Mrs. Warmack. And Mrs. Warmack asked if they
2 could just go ahead and utilize our own
3 assessment system so we could provide the
4 support.
5 And, in fact, we had a meeting -- we met in
6 Boca Raton, at Florida Atlantic University. I
7 was in -- in the meeting -- I was in a meeting
8 in West Palm Beach, and Ms. Townsend and
9 Mrs. Warmack with a charter school meeting in
10 Miami, and we met there.
11 And then I issued my letter on the 28th in
12 which I did my findings of fact and my
13 recommendation saying that they could use our
14 assessment program.
15 So I'm very disappointed that they would
16 indicate that I required them to use our
17 assessment program, because I certainly did not
18 do that. They wanted to use our program.
19 We also committed any support that we
20 could. In fact, I've never -- I don't believe
21 there's a better example in the state of
22 Florida where we have worked hand in hand with
23 that particular school.
24 Mrs. Warmack attended our principal
25 meetings, we shared every kind of opportunity
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 182
June 22, 1999
1 we had, Mrs. Townsend was there.
2 So basically we continued through the year.
3 We were certainly well intended when we met
4 with them regarding the use of the SIT funds.
5 The first priority they had -- we said, what
6 are your priorities, give us a list of what you
7 need out of the SIT funds.
8 They wanted computers, they wanted a school
9 bus to provide within 2 mile transportation.
10 We said, okay, we can do that. We actually
11 provided a school bus, a driver, and everything
12 else that we could. And we gave them any kind
13 of in-kind of materials.
14 The only new requirement, they wanted some
15 computers. So we did -- we got -- went ahead
16 and did that in good faith.
17 But then what happened, when it was time to
18 go ahead and review all the assessment data,
19 the report was totally incomplete. There
20 were -- there were -- there was no information
21 for the Board to consider. So they came to us
22 and asked for an extension.
23 And I'm really also concerned that they
24 would suggest that we denied an informal
25 hearing. Because as you have heard, you know,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 183
June 22, 1999
1 they could have come, and they -- they never
2 really came back for a hearing. There was no
3 reason why they couldn't have had that hearing.
4 And that's really -- I was totally
5 surprised that they did not want the hearing
6 before the Board. So I think that's a total
7 moot issue here. I -- I don't even think that
8 should be considered, because they didn't even
9 want to come to have the hearing.
10 And so then we gave them more time to get
11 the data. And, as you can see, I'm extremely
12 disappointed today when they're still bringing
13 data in by fax that we didn't even know they
14 had.
15 And as our attorney said also, that what --
16 what had happened was we made our decision, the
17 Board made a decision based on a variety of
18 factors which you've seen, including
19 diminishing parent support.
20 We also had a situation where the
21 kindergarten class had fallen down to only
22 10 students, and -- instead of 25. So there
23 was a lack of ability to continue it. There
24 weren't -- there wasn't the interest right
25 there.
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June 22, 1999
1 There was continual problems with
2 governance, which we talked about.
3 But the bottom line was, which -- which
4 we're here about, we were concerned about,
5 there was no evidence about student
6 performance. Then after we decided not to --
7 to go ahead and continue the school -- and,
8 again, we were very concerned about these kids,
9 because y'all have heard about Dr. Blanchard,
10 who's from the University of Tennessee.
11 He says, if students have two years of
12 unsuccessful schooling, the chances for their
13 success are -- are -- are really diminished.
14 So we were concerned about that also.
15 So then after we got the Florida FCAT
16 results for the 4th graders, and also the
17 Florida Writes results, and we reviewed those,
18 they were lower -- as you've heard, lower than
19 any school in St. Lucie County. We compared
20 them to the at-risk kids at a school that even
21 had a higher free and reduced lunch rate.
22 I think if you'll look in the state of
23 Florida, they may be the lowest schools -- the
24 scores of any school in the state of Florida.
25 And I want to fall back on one statement
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 185
June 22, 1999
1 that -- and I say may. I want to fall back on
2 one statement that I've embraced.
3 St. Lucie County, as -- as Governor Bush has
4 said, we are a leader in school choice, I am
5 strongly supportive of the A+ plan.
6 And when I'm meeting with faculties in the
7 community, I say something that Governor Bush
8 said: We can't afford to abandon a single
9 child.
10 And in this case, I say to you: We can't
11 afford to abandon 94 students at Orange Avenue
12 Charter School.
13 Thank you very much.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
15 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, may I ask a
16 question?
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
18 TREASURER NELSON: I'd like somebody from
19 the Department of Education, I'd like to ask a
20 question.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You want to --
22 what area it is, so we can get the right
23 person?
24 TREASURER NELSON: Yeah.
25 I'd like to know: How does the performance
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 186
June 22, 1999
1 of this charter school, as measured by the
2 standardized test, how does it stack up against
3 charter -- the other charter schools in this
4 state?
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I don't think we
6 have anybody that has that data here. We can
7 get it for you. But it's --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think it's safe to say,
9 it's -- if it's not -- it's probably --
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Probably low.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- is the average
13 anyway.
14 TREASURER NELSON: I'm assuming what --
15 from what we've heard, that it's one of the
16 worst in the state. And I'd like to know if
17 that's true or not.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think it's true.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I would -- I would
20 say that it probably is. I don't have any data
21 to show that it's not. And I don't -- we don't
22 have that -- we don't have comparative data
23 sitting here.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Professor, do you have an
25 answer?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 187
June 22, 1999
1 DR. HAMILTON: What I'd like to share are a
2 number of issues --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you have an answer to
4 the question?
5 DR. HAMILTON: Yes. Issues related to this
6 question. Absolutely.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, let's --
8 DR. HAMILTON: As we --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Excuse me.
10 DR. HAMILTON: -- look at --
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Do you know any
12 charter schools that scored worse than -- than
13 yours on the statewide exams?
14 DR. HAMILTON: I have not seen all the
15 charter schools data, or a number of them in
16 this respect.
17 However, I do want to say that when we are
18 looking at these comparisons, that we give
19 attention to the kinds of factors that exist at
20 the charter schools that don't exist in the
21 regular public schools. And where the regular
22 public schools may be advantaged when we look
23 at these particular kinds of numbers of results
24 that we are mentioning.
25 On the one hand, we're looking at factors
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 188
June 22, 1999
1 such as at-risk students. We're looking at 91
2 to 94 students, based on the data that I have
3 observed and assessed here.
4 And we have 60 percent males and 40 percent
5 females.
6 But in this population, they all relate to
7 the four category characteristics for at-risk.
8 And every single child in that school, except
9 for seven. That seven has three
10 characteristics of at-risk.
11 Twenty-nine percent of these students are
12 living with guardians as a result of Court
13 appointed homes. So again, we're looking at a
14 different type of at-risk population.
15 When we began to look at this population,
16 they were also concerned with the kinds of
17 students that represent, number one in
18 St. Lucie --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sir --
20 DR. HAMILTON: -- you mentioned a mobility
21 issue --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: We -- we've --
23 DR. HAMILTON: Okay.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we've kind of
25 established the --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 189
June 22, 1999
1 DR. HAMILTON: Okay.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the student population.
3 And -- and Commissioner Nelson was asking a --
4 a good question related to the -- how does this
5 compare with other charter schools.
6 And I can -- I can tell you it's -- if it's
7 not the lowest, it's one of the two or three.
8 I mean, that's the answer to your question.
9 DR. HAMILTON: Okay.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: And it -- and it may be for
11 many factors that you're describing. But
12 we're -- we're trying to -- trying to move --
13 we have a long agenda, and we've got to get
14 to -- to lunch, and then we've got some
15 interesting items on the agenda in the
16 afternoon. So we're trying to reach some
17 closure here, if you don't mind.
18 DR. HAMILTON: Okay.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry to cut you off,
20 but --
21 DR. HAMILTON: Okay. Could I mention one
22 last thing, Governor?
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
24 DR. HAMILTON: If we considered the same
25 students with the same characteristics, we
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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June 22, 1999
1 would probably come up with the same types of
2 results and performance.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, that -- that
4 is a question that I haven't been able to do
5 right now, and I wanted to get some numbers.
6 And I'm -- my guess is that it's possible
7 that in many districts, those students with
8 those characteristics are having the same
9 problems these -- these students are having.
10 I don't know about this particular
11 district, and I -- you know, looking at the --
12 the most at-risk students, comparing the two
13 is, you know, something that maybe should be
14 done.
15 But I don't think we have the ability to do
16 that right now.
17 And I know the Superintendent does have a
18 comment on Commissioner Nelson's question,
19 I think.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I'd like to hear
21 your comment.
22 MR. VOGEL: Yes.
23 I think the question was: Are these the
24 lowest scores of a charter school in the state
25 of Florida?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 191
June 22, 1999
1 Information we've -- we've received -- and
2 I have no verifi-- I cannot -- I don't have the
3 information in front of me. But we have -- the
4 information we received was that they are.
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
6 MR. VOGEL: From the Department of
7 Education.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a -- I have a
11 question for the Superintendent.
12 I think my three issues coming into this
13 were, from my briefing and what I had read was
14 that, one, the requirements to go to the
15 Stanford tests had precluded a baseline.
16 You've explained that -- the resident
17 requirement. That was --
18 MR. VOGEL: That's correct.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: My second question, that
20 was a -- a desire on the part of the charter
21 school.
22 My second was con-- concern was procedural.
23 And that was simply that there wasn't an
24 informal hearing granted. But you've explained
25 that -- that that was a process that was
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 192
June 22, 1999
1 available, but they did not want the informal
2 hearing; is that correct?
3 MR. VOGEL: Correct. And they responded in
4 writing that they did not want the informal
5 hearing, and that is in your packet.
6 MS. BENTON: If I may --
7 Mr. Governor, and Ms. Harris, with regard
8 to the points that you just reviewed with the
9 Superintendent, I -- I -- with all due respect
10 to the Superintendent, it is not --
11 Can you hear me?
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Better.
13 MS. BENTON: Okay.
14 On the issue of the informal hearing, the
15 informal hearing, according to the statute, is
16 supposed to be given at the time that the
17 notice is given of the -- of the intention of
18 the School Board to terminate the charter,
19 not -- in other words, it's not up to the
20 District -- any District, not just
21 St. Lucie County, to pick a day after the
22 period has run, and say to the charter school,
23 we'll now give you an informal hearing.
24 The statute doesn't give that leeway. And
25 the cases that I've submitted to you indicate
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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June 22, 1999
1 that once you've violated that statutory
2 provision, that due process provision, then you
3 have -- have -- you have violated the statute.
4 I mean, you cannot go back 15, 20 days
5 later after the charter school has filed its
6 appeal; not only that, but has filed its brief;
7 and say, now, charter school, you can come in
8 and have an informal hearing.
9 And the -- the -- the Charter School Board
10 made a decision that it decided not to proceed
11 with the informal hearing at that late date.
12 So I wanted to clarify that, that the
13 statute has been violated. And the fact that
14 they came in later does not change that.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Go ahead.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, if I --
17 I -- I appreciate what you're saying. I --
18 I think we do have a time problem here.
19 Let me -- let me just make a comment, if I
20 could.
21 First, I think the Assistant -- Assistant
22 Superintendent said it well: How do we get
23 this ox out of the ditch?
24 There's no easy way, and this -- this is
25 definitely a close call, and I think everybody
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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June 22, 1999
1 has recog-- recognized that.
2 To try to help these kids, which is what
3 we're trying to do, I think everybody sees that
4 they need a little more than what they're --
5 where they are today. We abandon the school,
6 we close the school, put them back in the
7 public system, that's -- that's going to be,
8 you know, one -- one route. Not going to be
9 easy.
10 The other route is to try to, you know,
11 keep them where they are, and -- and improve
12 the school where it is. And that's probably
13 not going to be easy either.
14 But to close the school is fairly drastic.
15 And I think to the Superintendent, I would
16 say -- I kind of find myself maybe where you
17 were a year or so ago when you first saw the --
18 there were some improvements that needed to be
19 made, and some problems.
20 While we recognize that -- at that point,
21 you recognized that, but kind of wanted to give
22 them a second chance and work through it. I
23 kind of find myself -- and you did that, and
24 you did it fairly.
25 I kind of find myself now, I guess, in
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June 22, 1999
1 that -- that same position, just a little bit
2 later in time, that it's the first chance I've
3 had to -- to take a look at the -- the school.
4 I'd like to give them -- I'd like to give
5 them a second chance, and -- and hope that we
6 can work through some of these problems, and --
7 and make sure that these kids are -- are going
8 to get the kind of education that they need.
9 And I -- I know all of you are committed to
10 that.
11 And I -- I'm just not quite willing to --
12 to take the drastic action of closing the
13 school, at least from my position. And I think
14 it might have some chance of -- of achieving
15 even a better outcome if we give them this one
16 more shot at it, and work closely with them.
17 And -- and I know that y'all are certainly
18 willing to do that if -- if -- and that's the
19 case of -- I would --
20 If -- if the Commissioner had a motion, I
21 would -- I would second the motion to --
22 I guess, is it to remand and -- reject and
23 remand?
24 And I would make a second to that motion.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion.
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June 22, 1999
1 You did make a motion, didn't you?
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yes.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: And a second.
4 Is there any other discussion?
5 I think we've gotten enough comments about
6 this.
7 All in favor of the motion, say aye.
8 THE CABINET: Aye.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
11 TREASURER NELSON: No.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's two of you?
13 Very good.
14 Thank you very much for coming.
15 TREASURER NELSON: Who was the other no
16 vote?
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: General Milligan. You just
18 were louder. Couldn't tell from --
19 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I just want to
20 say on my no vote, for the record, that I feel
21 like that charter schools, when we establish
22 them, are supposed to make things better.
23 And in this particular one, now into the
24 third year, it does not indicate that that has
25 been the case. And thus I voted no.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 197
June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
2 I think we can probably get through the
3 next three items pretty quickly, don't you
4 think?
5 MR. PIERSON: Yes, sir.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Anybody have any other
7 thoughts so that -- we'll skip -- let's do them
8 then.
9 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is an appeal of the
10 Richard Milburn Academy, which was denied by
11 Hillsborough County School Board. And we
12 recommend this be deferred until
13 August the 12th.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. We believe
15 that -- that it -- the problems, that the
16 School Board basically had to deny, and they're
17 going to agree to look at them again, have been
18 fixed, and it looks like it may not have to
19 come after all.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'll move to defer
22 till August --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: To the first meeting --
24 MR. PIERSON: August 12th.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- 12th.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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June 22, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second?
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved for
6 deferral.
7 MR. PIERSON: Item 4 is State University
8 System rules on personnel: 6C-5.910, 6C-5.915,
9 6C-5.920, 6C-5.925, 6C-5.935, 6C-5.940,
10 6C-5.945, and 6C-5.955.
11 These are all cleanup rules.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is an amendment to
17 Rule 6C-7.001, Tuition Fee Schedule and
18 Percentage of Costs for the State University
19 System.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 I suggest we -- how long do we normally --
25 45 minutes, 1 hour? You guys want an hour?
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June 22, 1999
1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Be nice.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: An hour.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: All right. Let's
4 do --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Be back in an hour.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Which means --
7 really -- you want to just say a one time,
8 like, 1:45?
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: How about 1:40?
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: All right. 1:40.
11 I tried to get an extra 5 minutes, and you
12 caught me.
13 (Luncheon recess.)
14
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 200
June 22, 1999
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 1 through 199 are a true and correct
12 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 2ND day of JULY, 1999.
18
19
20 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
100 Salem Court
21 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
850/878-2221
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
VOLUME II
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
June 22, 1999, commencing at approximately 9:09 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
202
1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 JEB BUSH
Governor
4
BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
7
KATHERINE HARRIS
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
10
BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 TOM GALLAGHER
Commissioner of Education
13
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15
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18
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22
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24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
203
June 22, 1999
1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,
4 Deputy Commissioner)
5 6 Approved 316
7 For Information Only 317
6 8 Approved 330
7 Recess 330
8 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 331
9 *
10
11
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (Attorney General Butterworth and
3 Treasurer Nelson not present in the room. )
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 6.
5 Could I have everybody's attention, please.
6 We're going to begin.
7 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome back.
9 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is an explanation of
10 the process for assisting low performing
11 schools, and a report from Escambia County
12 schools as examples of implementing the
13 process.
14 We have a presentation by Andrea Willett.
15 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
16 room, and Secretary Harris exited the room.)
17 MS. WILLETT: Governor Bush,
18 Commissioner Gallagher, members of the Cabinet,
19 thank you very much for taking the time to
20 listen today. We have some very exciting news,
21 I think, to share with you.
22 The Department of Education is statutorily
23 charged with assisting schools. And what we're
24 here today to talk with you about, and share
25 with you, is the process that we have used for
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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June 22, 1999
1 that assistance. And it is a partnership
2 process for improvement and change.
3 The process for change begins at the local
4 level, with the School Advisory Council --
5 Let me take just a minute, a point of
6 clarification.
7 In your green packets, this presentation is
8 inside on the left-hand side at the very front.
9 -- local School Advisory Councils formed
10 from the community, served by the school, as
11 well as the school, do a very formal needs
12 assessment process, looking at what are the
13 needs of the school, what are the needs of the
14 children in those schools.
15 From that, they collect and analyze the
16 data that are available to them; they research
17 strategies for change; they develop a school
18 improvement plan that goes to the local board
19 for local board approval; they implement,
20 monitor, and adjust the plan; they celebrate
21 success; and they move forward.
22 The school's role in this is to annually
23 develop that plan; to get the community input
24 and support; to request waivers, if they're
25 needed. And all the other pieces that you see
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1 there on the -- on the screen.
2 The school presents it to the district, and
3 there is a district approval process, and it
4 usually stops right there. But the focus of
5 school improvement plans are on school and
6 student achievement.
7 The district also has a role as the fiscal
8 agent for the schools. They have to have
9 policies in place that support --
10 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
11 MS. WILLETT: -- school plans. They need
12 to grant or forward those waiver requests,
13 whether the waivers are from school board
14 policy, or from State policy or procedures.
15 They provide the resources; approve those
16 school plans; support and encourage the
17 innovations; they implement assistance and
18 intervention, because they are the first line
19 of assistance and intervention. And, again,
20 the focus is always on student achievement.
21 The State's role is to set the standards,
22 assess the standards, provide technical
23 assistance, reporting on results.
24 And as I think the Governor stated very
25 clearly this morning, it's focusing on student
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1 achievement. And I think that was echoed by
2 the -- the Commissioner's comments as well.
3 This process has been in place since
4 roughly '91. In 1995, we started out with
5 accountability, which raised the stakes, and
6 said, well, oh, by the way, it's nice to have a
7 process, but let's talk about the results of
8 that process. That's the important thing.
9 In 1995-96, we had 158 schools across the
10 state that were declared critically low. And
11 the State's role of technical assistance kicked
12 in much -- at a much higher level, much more
13 intensified.
14 In 96-97, there were only 71 schools
15 classified as critically low.
16 In 1997-98, there were 30 schools. And I
17 came before this body at the end of the 97-98
18 school year, and said of those 30 schools,
19 20 of them were third-year schools, and all
20 schools were off the list at that point. And
21 so there were no required State Board of
22 Education action.
23 During that year also, in 1998, in
24 November, this body also approved much higher
25 standards for declaring whether or not a school
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1 has made adequate progress, based upon the FCAT
2 and Sunshine State Standards. Previously the
3 school's accountability record had been based
4 upon norm reference testing, and
5 Florida Writes.
6 So in 98-99, four schools appeared as being
7 designated as critically low.
8 So why are we here today?
9 In Section 229.595 of Florida Statute, it
10 authorizes the State Board of Education to
11 intervene in schools where there is critically
12 low performance after a set number of years.
13 The rules that are cited there give you
14 again the new standards by which schools are
15 being held accountable, classifying them as
16 school performance Level 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5.
17 The Rule, 94-22 sets the new student FCAT
18 standards, so it's a higher standard for
19 student performance.
20 And I believe yesterday was one of those
21 momentous and historical days in Florida
22 public education where we saw the Governor and
23 the Commissioner watching with a -- a large
24 number of people signing legislation that has
25 far-reaching changes.
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1 This language has stronger language of
2 accountability, it has higher standards again,
3 and it has a shortened time line for those four
4 schools that were previously mentioned.
5 We didn't have the legislation for sure,
6 for real, and signed and official until
7 yesterday. But the schools that I'm going to
8 be talking about in this process start summer
9 school the middle of July.
10 And, in fact, not -- excuse me -- not
11 summer school, but begin their school term in
12 July. They have an -- they've done a
13 year-round education, and they are now asking
14 for an extended school year. And they base
15 this upon the needs of their students.
16 So the District has proactively sent a
17 letter of request to the Commissioner in May
18 saying we would like to appear to make sure
19 that we have plans in place that address the
20 deficiencies we see at the schools, and the
21 changes that we believe need to be made.
22 And we understand that the legislation may
23 or may not be signed by them, but we want these
24 things in place for our students, because we
25 want to start the school term fresh.
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1 The process for change when the
2 accountability stakes get higher is slightly
3 different from the Department level as well.
4 We have intensified our needs assessment
5 activities with the schools and with the
6 District.
7 The District looked at each individual
8 school, and each individual classroom in the
9 school. The Department was a partner in that,
10 looking at the instruction that took place.
11 The District and the State focused
12 resources. When we found that we could move
13 more grant money toward that area, and make it
14 competitive, and still make it satisfy the
15 requirements of statute and of legislation, we
16 did that.
17 We have matched them to more successful
18 schools in other parts of the state so that the
19 principals could talk, the teachers could talk
20 without middle people. They could talk
21 practitioner to practitioner, and say, what is
22 it that you did, what worked for you, let's see
23 if we can try that here.
24 We had a great deal more on-site work by
25 the Department. Department representatives met
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1 monthly with the District Assistance Team, and
2 met subsequently with School Advisory Councils
3 at each of the schools.
4 There was a great deal more collaboration
5 between the District, school, and the community
6 in these -- for these schools. And that's
7 almost difficult to understand, because this
8 District has been very collaborative and
9 cooperative from the very beginning.
10 And we also began to prepare what our
11 recommendations might be to you as to what
12 changes might need to be made at the school.
13 While we were doing that with the District,
14 the District was also making changes, and
15 stepping up their intervention and assistance
16 process.
17 They activated the local assistance plans
18 that had previously been put in place when
19 accountability started, and also looked very
20 carefully at what they were doing, and how they
21 were doing it.
22 They reviewed and revised any policies and
23 procedures that administratively might -- might
24 cause barriers. They reviewed and revised
25 their resource allocation, and pulled from
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1 within their district, teams of people who had
2 other hats to wear during this -- the normal
3 working day, to focus as a team to support
4 these schools.
5 They reviewed and revised the staffing and
6 personnel issues. The Superintendent, as you
7 will see, gave the -- the principals
8 carte blanche as far as staffing at the school,
9 and said, if you've got somebody that is not
10 working at this school, you have the ability to
11 transfer and move them.
12 They reviewed and revised curriculum,
13 instruction, and the assessment activities;
14 lined them up to the Sunshine State Standards;
15 looked carefully at the kind of delivery of
16 instruction that their children needed, based
17 upon the needs that they had identified
18 early on in the needs assessment process. And
19 they revised and reallocated their resources
20 and efforts to work toward the school.
21 The school for its part also reviewed the
22 student achievements, and certainly found that
23 it was not where they wanted it to be.
24 They reviewed and revised the curriculum,
25 instruction, and assessment methodologies.
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1 We're looking at students who are sometimes
2 called at-risk, come from very high poverty
3 background. And you'll hear the -- the level
4 of poverty that the schools are facing.
5 These children oftentimes need very
6 explicit instruction. You cannot leave
7 anything to chance. You must tell them exactly
8 what they need to do.
9 Because they come from very high poverty
10 background, oftentimes they're not used to
11 making choices or knowing that they have
12 choices. And so you must give them a very
13 structured learning environment to begin with,
14 and teach them how to make good choices.
15 They also come from a very rich oral
16 traditional background, and, therefore, they --
17 if they're not talking, they're not
18 participating; and if they're not
19 participating, they're not learning.
20 So the schools have been looking for ways
21 to actively engage the children, and use and
22 build on the strengths that the children do
23 bring to help them change their delivery of
24 instruction and change their student
25 performance.
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1 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
2 MS. WILLETT: They looked at their resource
3 allocation, their staff performance, and
4 their staffing issues.
5 They looked very carefully at ensuring
6 community participation at each one of the
7 schools. You'll see the volunteer hours,
8 you'll see the people who have come into work
9 with the schools. The school's role in this
10 process is to make those changes needed for
11 higher student achievement.
12 That's all a process that's kind of dry,
13 kind of theoretical, sort of sits in statute
14 and rule, and it has very fancy words around
15 it, lots of whereases and stuff. But it really
16 means kids. And it really means people.
17 So what does this really look like? And
18 what we brought before you today is what it
19 really looks like at the District level, and
20 what it really looks like at the school level.
21 We've used Escambia County, again, because
22 the Superintendent requested to appear; because
23 they do have two schools that are not quite
24 where they want them to be; and because of the
25 new legislation that may affect them, and does,
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1 in fact, kick in your approval of their plans.
2 So they've looked very carefully at what their
3 options are, and they've -- they'll come
4 forward.
5 You'll hear the District talk about the
6 reform strategies that they are putting into
7 place. You won't see those things in the
8 school plan, you'll see them in the District
9 reform piece. Because the school operates in
10 the context of the District. So the two
11 together make a total package.
12 The -- the District will talk to you about
13 their assistance activities, what they did
14 specifically to make it different for the
15 school.
16 They will talk to you about the
17 collaboration that they've had with the teacher
18 organizations so that the staffing and
19 personnel issues which are under the purview of
20 the local school and local School Board were
21 addressed appropriately.
22 The school will talk to you about the
23 research that they did on looking at the
24 programs to really meet the needs of the
25 children that we are describing, again, based
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1 upon the needs assessment process and the staff
2 activities that they have done to really make a
3 difference for children.
4 When you've looked at the real world
5 examples, I will be coming back to you and
6 talking to you about the recommendations that
7 we did make for the school, and asking for your
8 approval and support.
9 So we've prepared a package of material
10 here and presentations that will lead you
11 through the process. And we'll be glad to take
12 the questions at the end.
13 And right now, I'd like to bring up
14 Jim May, who is Superintendent of
15 Escambia County schools to talk to you about
16 the District contact, District assistance, and
17 intervention.
18 MR. MAY: Governor Bush, members of the
19 Cabinet, good afternoon, and thank you very
20 much for allowing us to make our presentation
21 in such a timely manner to you.
22 The first slide that you will notice that's
23 going to come up will be discussing
24 Escambia County aims. Those aims were
25 developed about a year-and-a-half ago.
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1 One of the -- the beliefs that we held at
2 that point was there needed to be a consistency
3 of purpose, that we all needed to be on the
4 same page, that all of those arrows needed to
5 be aligned with everybody working inside of one
6 arrow.
7 What we basically did was to meet across
8 the District with parents, with members of the
9 Chamber of Commerce. We cooperatively worked
10 with Leadership Pensacola, with
11 Advisory Councils, with the various schools,
12 and even had some students who were a part of
13 helping us to design these four major aims.
14 And I would point out to you that the
15 number one aim, as you can see very clearly, is
16 highest student achievement.
17 And one of the things that we have asked
18 each principal, asked each District level
19 member, asked every single person who has any
20 opportunity to make a difference in
21 Escambia County, to make a decision that's
22 based on those aims with the number one aim,
23 highest student achievement, as being the major
24 factor in all of our decision making.
25 Going to the next slide, I would like to
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1 share with you just briefly some of the
2 demographics of our county. First of all, it
3 is a fairly large county, certainly not when
4 you take a look at Dade or maybe a few others.
5 But it is a large county, nonetheless, in that
6 area.
7 We have 46,000 students. Our District is
8 actually the 87th largest school district in
9 the United States. By a recent survey done by
10 the U.S. Department of Education and the
11 President's office, we were reported to be the
12 88th poorest district in terms of economic
13 standards.
14 We basically transport 33,000 students
15 6.2 million miles a day. So even our
16 transportation factors are fairly large ones.
17 Sixty percent -- and this is certainly
18 approximate -- 55 to 60 percent of our district
19 is made up of students who are on free and
20 reduced lunches. If the two schools that are
21 in question today, Spencer Bibbs, 96 percent of
22 that school is made up of free or reduced
23 lunches; and A.A. Dixon, 99.5 percent of that
24 school is made up of students who are on free
25 or reduced lunches.
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1 As a matter of fact, there are only seven
2 students in the entire school who are on
3 reduced lunches. The rest of them are on total
4 free lunches.
5 I'm not telling you that as an excuse,
6 because, quite frankly, we don't feel that
7 excuses are appropriate. We do believe all
8 students can learn.
9 However, what I would like to share with
10 you is that there is a readiness factor.
11 On the KSI, which is the basic test that we
12 administer to all of our kindergarten students
13 at those two schools, they usually will range
14 in the 10th to 15th percentile, as we can
15 demonstrate to you by testing.
16 When those students leave our school at the
17 5th grade, they are currently in the
18 30th percentile ranges, which basically says,
19 yes, they're getting a year for a year's worth
20 of education.
21 But the bottom line is, they're not where
22 we want them to be, nor will we be satisfied
23 until they are where we want them to be, and
24 that is at or above the average achievement
25 level.
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1 We'd like to talk to you about some other
2 achievements -- results at this time.
3 These results would be our CAT scores. As
4 most of you are well aware, particularly the
5 Commissioner, we will no longer be
6 administering the CAT because of the
7 Stanford 9. However, this is what we have
8 basically done for the past 12 years.
9 Those results this year basically would be
10 this: We were at or above, as a District,
11 this -- the national average at every grade and
12 every level.
13 As a matter of fact, if you took out the
14 6th grade, which was -- we were at the
15 50th percentile, we were above the national
16 average at every level on CAT testing.
17 In terms of the SAT, which most of you are
18 very familiar with, a college entrance
19 requirement in many places, we are above both
20 the nation and the State average.
21 The next test that I would like to discuss
22 is the FCAT. And I think that's one that all
23 of you are probably most concerned with.
24 In terms of the FCAT, one of the important
25 things that I would like to point out to you,
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1 and I will begin with the Florida Writes
2 section.
3 If you'll look at the County scores for
4 1998 and 1999, I hope that you will observe a
5 trend. And -- and that trend is one that you
6 saw in our four strategic aims, and that trend
7 is continuous improvement.
8 If you will look at the elementary level,
9 2.7 to 2.8; at the middle school level, we went
10 from 3.1 to 3.3; at the high school level, from
11 3.4, to 3.6, which does match the State
12 average.
13 Moving along to the next part of FCAT,
14 which is the reading level, you will see that
15 it indicates increases again as students move
16 through the levels, and at each year, which
17 falls in line with that continuous improvement
18 aspect.
19 The elementary level, '98 was 296; '99,
20 297; middle school from 298 to 300; and from
21 high school, 302 to 305 in the reading FCAT.
22 Then we move to the mathematics portion of
23 the FCAT results. And I think that you're
24 going to find even more substantial increases
25 have occurred there.
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1 In '98, we were at 297 at the elementary
2 level, and moved up to 304 in '99. At the
3 middle school, we moved from 292 to 297; and at
4 the high school, you saw the most significant
5 amounts of achievement, from 300 to 311.
6 What we're seeing is a trend to decrease
7 the gap. And an important point that I hope
8 you'll note is these very same students, who
9 represent these low performing schools, do
10 attend high schools in our District. And at
11 the high school level, Escambia County has no
12 high school below a 3, a fact of which we are
13 very proud of.
14 We'd like to talk a little bit at this time
15 about the District initiatives.
16 One of the things that Andrea already
17 referred to -- and by the way, I think I would
18 be most remiss at this time, particularly to
19 you, Commissioner Gallagher, if I did not take
20 a moment and say to you that -- that your staff
21 has been incredibly easy for us to work with.
22 That didn't mean they weren't demanding.
23 It meant that they were incredibly easy for us
24 to work.
25 One of the things that they have done is to
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1 make several visits to those schools, to come
2 over and see what was happening.
3 Andrea Willett herself has made two
4 presentations to the Escambia County School
5 Board, she has tried to keep everyone updated
6 and exactly know what's going on, and done just
7 a superb job of coordinating those efforts,
8 along with Dr. Stewart and Dr. Mosrie.
9 And I just thank you for that, because it
10 could have been considerably harder without
11 their working so smoothly with us.
12 Moving through those initiatives.
13 One of the things that we said to
14 principals before these results had actually
15 been published, and we were 100 percent sure,
16 we had already said to principals, you have our
17 blessing to remove any staff members that you
18 see as barriers to those students receiving a
19 quality education.
20 We will also continue to say to them during
21 the year, that if you have teachers who are not
22 performing, all you have to do is let us know,
23 and we will assist you in making those changes.
24 Another item which was elaborated on
25 somewhat earlier was that we have collaboration
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1 between the District, the School Board, and the
2 Escambia County Teachers Union. The Teachers
3 Union, when we approached them, and said we
4 intend to move these teachers at any time, and
5 we will move them beginning now, did not in any
6 way say anything except, we support your
7 efforts to improve those school scores, and to
8 improve those students' learning.
9 So we were very proud that they worked with
10 us collaboratively.
11 The next item that you will see written
12 down there is the extension of the school year.
13 We are requesting additional funds. Actually
14 we had requested it for nine schools.
15 We are requesting for these two schools at
16 this time additional funds to extend the school
17 year to a 210-day year.
18 One of the things that will occur because
19 of that is that we will be increasing those
20 teachers' salaries at those schools. They will
21 receive additional compensation for additional
22 work. We will also be using those same
23 teachers and after school programs and in some
24 Saturday programs. Also there will be
25 neighborhood learning centers going -- working,
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1 too.
2 Moving to the next slide, we are going to
3 do our very best to increase the stability
4 rate. The stability rate, and the number of
5 students who have been moving at that school is
6 what we have found is that it's basically over
7 60 percent.
8 Sixty percent of the students who begin the
9 year will go somewhere else before the year is
10 out. And what we have found is that they tend
11 to go to other schools within the District.
12 So one of our plans will be to provide bus
13 transportation for those students to provide
14 continuous, uninterrupted learning at one
15 school with one teacher. So we are going to
16 provide District transportation from other
17 schools in the District to those students who
18 just transfer schools.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Can I just
20 mention.
21 Of those -- with those parents that want to
22 keep their children in those schools.
23 MR. MAY: Certainly. It would be their --
24 their decision if they chose not to.
25 Another item that you can see up there is
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1 that we're going to require parent/teacher
2 conferences on a much more frequent level.
3 They will be held at least once each six weeks.
4 And we think that will be important,
5 because parent involvement has been somewhat of
6 a missing ingredient. And I'll go into some
7 statistics that might give you some more
8 reasons a little bit later as to why this is
9 the fact.
10 We're also requiring after school tutorial
11 programs for those students who are under the
12 academic improvement plans. And basically
13 those two schools have selected a student below
14 the 35th percentile to participate in those
15 activities.
16 We will have more what we call visiting
17 teacher participations for all accounts. Those
18 are our truant officers of today. They will be
19 much more active in trying to boost student
20 attendance at those schools.
21 We also intend to install automatic phone
22 systems to help teachers make more constant
23 contact with parents and guardians of those
24 students.
25 Andrea has already indicated to you that
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1 District level facilitators have been assigned
2 to each of these schools, and there will be a
3 greater emphasis on the continuous improvement
4 aspect at all of them. There will be more
5 frequency as far as the visits of this
6 improvement team. There will also be more
7 on-site visits.
8 Another process that you see up there would
9 be to assess those schools on a more frequent
10 basis. We have developed our own writing
11 program, which is based for it very closely on
12 Florida Writes.
13 We were quite fortunate because
14 Escambia County had JoAnn Cawley, who is the
15 actual person who does the grading for the
16 Florida Writes program. And she had -- has
17 helped to assist us in developing what we call
18 Escambia Writes, which is a very similar
19 program, which will give us constant access, on
20 a very frequent basis, of how students are
21 doing in the writing scores.
22 Also we will have the Accelerated Reader
23 Program to do a very constant and continual
24 assessment of where children rank in terms of
25 reading scores.
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1 The STAR Program, which is another
2 assessment and program that's been developed so
3 we can do the same thing within the math
4 program.
5 One of the things that you'll notice, too,
6 is that there's been greater partnership with
7 the community and utilization of other
8 resources. For instance, at Spencer Bibbs,
9 there are seven partners in education at this
10 time, and nine at A.A. Dixon, which we feel
11 will help to improve that buy-in from the
12 community and other agencies.
13 I want to not end my part, but to delay it
14 until after the other two principals have had
15 their opportunity.
16 But I want to focus once again, that we
17 have developed a constancy of purpose.
18 Escambia County basically is very, very
19 dedicated to the idea of highest student
20 achievement.
21 Yes, we could make a lot of excuses about
22 the demographics of our students. We can
23 compare ourselves to some other counties that
24 are our neighbors, where they have half the
25 poverty rate.
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1 And do I believe that the readiness factor
2 is a factor, yes, I think it is, and the
3 research would back me up.
4 However, we do want to assure this group
5 that that is not an excuse, it's just a fact.
6 At this time, what I would like to do is to
7 present to you the principal of one of those
8 schools. That is Ms. Linda Scott. And I'm
9 going to ask Linda to come up, and to share
10 with this Cabinet a little bit about her plan
11 for her individual school.
12 So Linda.
13 MS. SCOTT: Good afternoon, Governor Bush,
14 and members of the Cabinet.
15 I'm Linda Scott, Principal of Spencer Bibbs
16 Academy in Pensacola, Florida. I'm here today
17 to share with you some of the successes that
18 we've experienced during the 1998-99 school
19 year.
20 While at the same time, it's my hope that
21 we will paint a picture of a course that we've
22 charted to lead us to an upward trend to reach
23 our destination, which is a Level C school.
24 Overall, Spencer Bibbs has made significant
25 growth, even though we remain on the critically
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1 low list, now termed as Level 1.
2 Student achievement gains, and program
3 evaluations, are measured at NCE. These are
4 our normal curve equivalents. NCE gains of
5 zero represent an increase of one grade per
6 year.
7 I'm elated to stand here and tell you that
8 Spencer Bibbs has an overall increase of
9 six NCEs.
10 In 1998-99, 4th grade students' achievement
11 gains show in the area of writing of
12 41 percent -- that 41 percent of the students
13 scored at 3 or better on the Florida Writes.
14 This represents a 14-point increase.
15 I might also add, had Spencer Bibb been
16 allowed to exit the critically low list on the
17 same criteria that we entered, we would
18 presently be off of the list.
19 The 4th grade achievement test scores also
20 showed a 19 percent increase above the median
21 in reading. The test data will see -- you will
22 see has a 13 percent increase above the median
23 and -- also in mathematics.
24 This next slide is a visual representation
25 that enables you to see the growth that was
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1 made in the areas on the previous slide.
2 The lighter bars will show where we were in
3 1997-98 in the areas of reading, writing, and
4 mathematics.
5 The darker bars will show improvement made
6 in writing, reading, and mathematics for this
7 same year.
8 As you can see, significant growth has been
9 made at Spencer Bibbs.
10 Our successes include also an increase of
11 7 percentage points in Grade 2 reading. In
12 this area, we went from 18 to 25 percent.
13 At Grade 3 in reading, there was an
14 increase of 20 percentage points. We went from
15 18 to 38 percent.
16 In Grade 3 mathematics, our students showed
17 a 14-point increase. Here we went from 13 to
18 27 percent. We are elated with the growth in
19 both the areas of reading and mathematics.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: These are percentiles?
21 MS. SCOTT: Yes, sir.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: So they went from 13 -- the
23 13th on the --
24 MS. SCOTT: Yes, sir.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- median average of the
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1 test scores was 13 percent to --
2 MS. SCOTT: Yes, sir.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- 27 percent.
4 MS. SCOTT: Again, this is a visual aid
5 showing where we were in 1997-98, and the
6 progress that has been made in 98-99 for
7 Grades 2 and 3 in reading, and Grade 3 in
8 mathematics.
9 Again, as I said, the lighter bars will
10 show where we were in 1997-98, and the darker
11 shades will show where we were in reading and
12 math in the 1998-99 school year.
13 Once again, you can see the growth that was
14 made.
15 This was just a synopsis of last year's
16 successes.
17 I would now like to present the strategies
18 that are being implemented for the 1999-2000
19 school year. I might add that all of our
20 strategies are based on research, and they're
21 also data driven.
22 Historical data and higher achievement
23 goals have indicated a need for a strong
24 systematic change.
25 We've studied our curriculum to determine
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1 those practices that work, and we've made some
2 changes to ensure that a curriculum is in place
3 that best meets the needs of all of our
4 students.
5 The next few slides will show a shift
6 toward this more comprehensive curriculum.
7 Here you'll see one of the things is a
8 dedicated time block for increased -- for
9 reading instruction. We've increased our
10 reading time blocks to a minimum of 90 minutes
11 per day.
12 We also have a dedicated time block for
13 mathematics instruction. Mathematics
14 instruction has been increased to a minimum of
15 60 minutes a day.
16 After school and Saturday tutorials. Our
17 focus will be here in the areas of reading,
18 writing, and mathematics.
19 I might add that this program has
20 contributed significantly to our academic
21 progress. There was a 7-point NCE gain in the
22 scores of those students who attended the
23 program at least 70 percent of the time.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many did?
25 MS. SCOTT: We had an average of about 60,
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1 and we focused in on the 4th graders. And
2 then --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: After school?
4 MS. SCOTT: -- after school, and on
5 Saturdays also, 2 hours, two days a week.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is the 4th grader focus
7 just coincidental with the --
8 MS. SCOTT: No. We also --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- test?
10 MS. SCOTT: -- did 3rd. Third and fourth.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
12 MS. SCOTT: We've also enrolled 25 families
13 in the Family Literacy Program, which is
14 Title I family resource activities modeled for
15 early education.
16 This program was managed through the
17 Title I program housed at the
18 McMillian Learning Center. We feel that,
19 you know, we can't just reach our children, we
20 also have to stretch and reach to the families
21 if we want to bring everybody along.
22 The daily writing lessons we have scheduled
23 here are 45-minute writing time blocks.
24 We've increased the emphasis on time on
25 task. We think it's imperative that we make
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1 sure that every minute counts. If we're going
2 down the hallway, we try to make that a
3 learning experience, whether we're doing some
4 recitation, or whatever the case may be.
5 We've also added at home school -- at home
6 projects during the holidays. These projects
7 will focus once again on the reading, the
8 mathematics, and writing. They're designed to
9 minimize the losses that often occur during
10 extended times that are away from school.
11 We've acquired classroom libraries to
12 provide resources for independent reading at
13 school and at home. This was enabled by the
14 State reading grant -- reading initiative that
15 we received.
16 We've instituted individualized planning to
17 achieve the mastery of the Sunshine State
18 Standards. We've taken a look at the test data
19 to determine the student's needs in order to
20 make sure that we correlate our instructions
21 with the Sunshine State Standards.
22 The District has supported us with the
23 resources wherever we have made our needs
24 known.
25 Here we also -- we're relying on the
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1 District to be there, to give us assistance in
2 whatever we need. They are assistance, and
3 they are not obstacles. So they do lend that
4 help.
5 We've instituted Escambia Writes if
6 you've -- as you've heard the Superintendent
7 say. Students in Grades K, 1, 2, 3, and 5 are
8 administered writing tests to assess writing
9 progress and skills. The prompts in testing
10 procedures are patterned after that of
11 Florida Writes.
12 The delivery of instruction is also a line
13 to the Sunshine State Standards, and the
14 assessment.
15 To assist with school reform, and
16 instructional practice, we made the following
17 changes:
18 We've aligned -- reassigned six teachers.
19 In addition, if we have teachers -- the
20 Superintendent, he has supported us -- who are
21 not performing at the levels needed to move our
22 children toward making sure that they're the
23 best that they can be, he has given us the
24 authority to move or reassign this -- these
25 teachers.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many teachers are there
2 at the school?
3 MS. SCOTT: We have approximately
4 21 instructional, plus we have some additional
5 reading instructors.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: So this is from -- this --
7 this -- end of this school year, to -- to
8 starting in July, six --
9 MS. SCOTT: Yes.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- six new teachers have
11 come in --
12 MS. SCOTT: Yes.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- others have been
14 reassigned?
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: Six?
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Six.
17 MS. SCOTT: We also have direct instruction
18 workshops in reading. They've also been
19 scheduled.
20 Once again, you've heard us talk about
21 trying to take a look at the data, and see what
22 particular program will best meet our needs.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: All the teachers already
24 are trained in direct instruction for next
25 year?
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1 MS. SCOTT: Yes, sir. We -- we began the
2 training this past year, and we will start
3 implementation at the very beginning of the
4 school term.
5 Writing workshops in both power writing and
6 process writing have been planned for the
7 entire year. So we can't -- it can't be a
8 one-shot deal. We have to make sure that it's
9 continuously and ongoing.
10 Activities Integrating Math and Science,
11 which is called AIMS Workshop, will also be
12 out -- ongoing throughout the year.
13 Realizing there our skill requires numerous
14 resources, we tried to capitalize on the
15 availability of talents in the school,
16 community, and partners in education and
17 parents.
18 To assist in the presentation of a --
19 meeting a variety of needs, person-- personnel,
20 they've been trained in nonviolent crisis
21 intervention workshops, we have in-house a math
22 person who has had additional training in our
23 schools.
24 We're also fortunate enough to have the
25 cooperation and assistance of many of our
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1 District personnel who come in, not only during
2 hours, but also after school on their own time,
3 to show their support and assistance.
4 Our partners in education serve as mentors
5 in our schools, as well as provide us with
6 student incentives.
7 We also -- we have planned for the
8 1999-2000 school year to continue programs that
9 show evidence of higher student achievement.
10 We're going to begin direct instruction in SRA
11 reading program. We're bringing on board for
12 the first time this year a writing teacher.
13 We're setting up also a writing lab which will
14 be used for both small and large groups.
15 Because our teachers will be required to
16 put in many hours of training beyond the
17 regular school day, we will be paying them for
18 the extra time that's spent there.
19 The last thing here, extended school year,
20 which will be the 210-day. This will allow
21 more instructional time for learning, which is
22 what we believe needs to happen.
23 In addition, planned for the 1999-2000
24 school year, comprehensive reform
25 demonstration, the Educational Innovation
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1 Grant, which one we've already received and
2 we've applied for the second one.
3 This will be used for direct instruction in
4 reading with a full-time coach to train and
5 mentor the teachers who are in-house and
6 delivering the instructions.
7 Community partners will be used for mentors
8 and, again, tutors.
9 This ends Spencer Bibbs' presentation.
10 Even though we're identified as a Level 1
11 school, you can see that progress is being
12 made.
13 With the implementation of intervention
14 strategies for the 1999-2000 school year, we
15 feel certain that student achievement will
16 continue to increase. Consequently, instead of
17 being identified as a Level 1 school, we will
18 have achieved the status of a C or better.
19 Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for that
21 excellent presentation.
22 Can I ask you a couple of questions?
23 MS. SCOTT: Sure.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: What -- the -- describe the
25 authority you have to hire and fire personnel
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1 under this arrangement with the Superintendent.
2 MS. SCOTT: Okay. Under this arrange--
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is it -- I mean, is it --
4 is it modified, or is it complete? Is it --
5 MS. SCOTT: It's pretty much complete.
6 Once we go in, what we'll be doing, as I,
7 serving as an instructional leader, will be
8 working -- because of -- of the needs that we
9 have, be working directly with the teachers.
10 After observing and assessing if there are
11 teachers who are in the schools who are not
12 meeting the standards that should be met, yes,
13 all we have to do is tell our Superintendent,
14 and he will make sure that that particular
15 person is reassigned someplace. And so we do
16 have that authority.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is it on his authority that
18 that happens, on yours? It's --
19 MS. SCOTT: On my authority.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: It is on your authority.
21 MS. SCOTT: He's given me that latitude,
22 right. On my authority, because I'm the one
23 there every day seeing these people on a daily
24 basis.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Thank you.
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1 Any other questions?
2 Yes.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor.
4 That's a very excellent presentation.
5 Last year, how many -- what percentage of
6 your students who started were the same kids
7 that -- that finished school that year? What
8 type of turnover do you --
9 MS. SCOTT: Our mobil-- mobility rate is
10 about 63 percent. So that's going to be about
11 27 percent of the kids.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. It's a funny -- this
13 mobility rate thing is a little odd in that it
14 says 60 percent, that means half basically of
15 the kids --
16 MS. SCOTT: Yeah.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, the thing
18 is, what we -- we may start the reporting to be
19 a little differently, because --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's --
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- we ought to
22 call it obility rate.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Obility rate.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Because the truth
25 of the matter is, you may have 60 changes, but
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1 some may be the same kids in and out for a lot
2 of reasons. They move to a different school,
3 and then they come back to the same school, and
4 things like that.
5 So if you just look at kids that started,
6 kids that are there the whole year, it really
7 doesn't mean there's 60 percent different
8 children in this -- in that class or students.
9 So we may look at a better way to track
10 that. Mobility rate's been a good -- not here,
11 of course -- excuse in the past.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Uh-hum.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But I think if we
14 looked at stability, and called it that, we
15 might be more honest with the school, and with
16 ourselves.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well,
18 Spencer Bibbs, it appears that -- that's
19 what -- what Superintendent has stated, and
20 what you are doing, you're probably better off
21 staying at Spencer Bibbs, than if your family
22 moves somewhere else in the community, and then
23 providing transportation to --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Many of the --
25 many of the parents have got to make that
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1 choice. That's what this is all about, the
2 choice that they can make.
3 And when parents see great growth in their
4 children, and feel a part of the community,
5 they stay. And if they want to choose to go
6 somewhere else, they can.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: With that
8 growth last year at such a high percentage,
9 would they still have been the number 1 school
10 with those numbers?
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The problem -- we
12 don't -- you know, we don't measure, General,
13 on how much growth you have. We measure on
14 whether you're at the levels we expect. And I
15 know there's been a lot of people that think we
16 should give somebody a prize because they grew
17 a percentage. And not that we want to
18 discourage that.
19 But unfortunately, that's the -- that's one
20 of the reasons the schools are where they are,
21 is because they've been allowed to show good
22 growth and say you did a great job, even though
23 you're still an F.
24 And the idea is, that's good, but we need
25 you to get a C. And I think you heard this
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1 principal tell you that C's where they're
2 going. And they aren't stopping till they're
3 there, and they're going there fast.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: But also when we get the
5 full testing in place, we're -- we'll move the
6 grading towards individual student achievement.
7 And then those types of growth results will
8 yield a higher number, I think, than the system
9 that currently exists.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Exactly.
11 One of the problems we have right now is
12 that although we compare the same school with
13 the 4th grade test year-to-year, the problem is
14 is that it's different 4th graders.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Different
16 4th graders.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So we haven't
18 been -- I mean, even if the 4th graders did --
19 did really good that came from 3rd grade, the
20 ones from 4th grade went to 5th grade might
21 have even done better. And they -- it's been a
22 tough time. We -- it's not really fair, we
23 want to measure student growth as well as
24 school growth.
25 And right -- this is doing school growth,
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1 but we're interested in individual student
2 growth, too.
3 And that's what 3 to 10 is going to give
4 us.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Ms. Scott, you -- when did
6 you become principal of the school?
7 MS. SCOTT: Two years ago.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Two years ago.
9 MS. SCOTT: Yes.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: And what -- what were you
11 doing before, out of curiosity.
12 MS. SCOTT: I was the Assistant Director of
13 Title I; and also a principal of the pre-K
14 centers that we have in Escambia County, three
15 of them.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Do you think your
17 kids are learning at their capacity, or they're
18 just starting to?
19 MS. SCOTT: I think they're just starting
20 to. I think there's -- we know that there's a
21 lot more that our kids can do. We hope to
22 equip them.
23 And one of them I think will go as far as
24 even getting them smart as far as test taking
25 strategies. We need to put in place also some
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June 22, 1999
1 of those type things.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
3 MS. SCOTT: But I think that they're
4 performing a lot better than they're showing on
5 the test.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
7 MS. SCOTT: Okay. I would like to take
8 this opportunity to present to you -- introduce
9 my esteemed colleague from Escambia County,
10 Judy Ladner, principal of A.A. Dixon.
11 MS. LADNER: Good afternoon, Governor Bush,
12 and members of the Cabinet, ladies and
13 gentlemen.
14 I am Judith Ladner, and I want to tell you
15 that I'm the proud principal of
16 Dixon Elementary. I am very proud to be there.
17 I am also an advocate for children.
18 Our 1998-99 test scores show significant
19 gains from the 97-98 school year. However,
20 these scores are not where we want them to be.
21 And I'll say that right up-front.
22 We know that we must make some systematic
23 changes in the way we deliver instruction to
24 our students. Our school improvement plan for
25 1999-2000 reflects major curriculum changes,
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June 22, 1999
1 which are research based and have proven to be
2 successful with at-risk students.
3 Our school will focus on highest student
4 achievement, which is our District goal as
5 well. And this highest student achievement
6 will be reading, writing, and math, along with
7 increasing parental participation.
8 I'd like to share with you some of our
9 data. This is 5th grade student data. And our
10 5th grade students saw a 6-point increase on
11 the FCAT in mathematics. This took our
12 students from 254 to 260.
13 Our 5th grade students also had a
14 5 percentage point increase on the California
15 Achievement Test. This took our students in
16 5th grade from the 28th percentile to the
17 33rd percentile in mathematics.
18 And the next slide, slide 2, is a pictorial
19 graph of this increase. The lighter is the
20 97-98, and the darker is the 98-99.
21 In 1998-99, our 4th grade student --
22 student achievement gains show that in writing,
23 29 of the students scored a 3 or better on the
24 Florida Writes, which represents a 3 percentage
25 point increase from 97-98.
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1 Our California Achievement Test scores show
2 an 8 percent increase above the median in
3 reading, and an 8 percent increase in
4 mathematics.
5 Slide 4 is a pictorial graph that enables
6 us to see this growth that was made in each of
7 the areas from the previous slide.
8 Our greatest success, however, was on the
9 California Achievement Test in reading
10 comprehension and math application. And this
11 is shown in the 3rd grade on the next slide.
12 We had an increase of 18 percentage points
13 in reading, and 17 percentage points in
14 mathematics.
15 And you can also see here that the lighter
16 is 97-98, and the darker is 98-99 reading and
17 mathematics.
18 Based on pre and posttesting of students at
19 A.A. Dixon, using Scientific Research
20 Associates, that's the SRA Reading Program,
21 placement tests, students in Grades 2 through 5
22 made significant gains in reading.
23 At the end of the 1998-99 school year,
24 65 percent of the students completing
25 1st grade, and going into 2nd grade will be on
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1 grade level for this coming year.
2 Thirty-eight percent of the students going
3 into 3rd grade will be on grade level for the
4 coming year, fifty-two percent of the students
5 going into 4th grade will be on grade level,
6 and 74 percent of the students going into
7 5th grade will be on grade level.
8 We have found that when instruction is
9 delivered through the direct instruction
10 method, our students experience a much greater
11 degree of success.
12 Slide 8 is a pictorial graph of our
13 successes using direct instruction. And you
14 can see the different grade levels.
15 Research indicates that student performance
16 and student's needs exhibited by our children
17 would best be served by using explicit
18 instructional strategies delivered through
19 multiple modalities in a structured setting.
20 After careful examination of the data, we
21 implemented the following intervention
22 strategies during the 1998-99 school year.
23 We did reduce average class size; we
24 initiated comprehensive diagnostic, and
25 placement testing in reading; we dedicated time
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June 22, 1999
1 block -- a time block for reading, for
2 mathematics, and for writing instruction; we
3 instituted individualized planning to achieve
4 mastery of the Sunshine State Standards.
5 We also initiated, along with our District,
6 the Escambia Writes test, and the FCAT type
7 practice tests for reading and mathematics.
8 We provided after school tutorial; we
9 enrolled 19 families in the family literacy
10 program, F-R-A-M-E, FRAME, which stands for
11 Family Resources --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry. How many --
13 MS. LADNER: -- Activities Model --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many --
15 MS. LADNER: -- for Early Interventions.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- how many after school
17 and summ-- and Saturday school kids
18 participated, what was the level?
19 MS. LADNER: We had approximately -- we --
20 we focused on 3rd, 4th, and 5th. We had all
21 three grade levels.
22 And approximately 120 students participated
23 in that.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Regular --
25 MS. LADNER: And it was -- I have to say,
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June 22, 1999
1 it was not Saturday. We did-- we are going --
2 that's one of our strategies for next year. It
3 was only a Tuesday-Thursday afternoon program.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
5 MS. LADNER: We increased our emphasis on
6 time on task. We know how important that is
7 for students to remain on task in a structured
8 environment.
9 We also had uninterrupted time blocks for
10 reading.
11 We instituted the Lightspan Program for
12 home use. And this was -- we were able to get
13 this Lightspan Program through a grant that we
14 had written.
15 And what the Lightspan Program is is that
16 families are allowed to check out CDs, which
17 are correlated to the Sunshine State Standards,
18 and also play stations, that's what they play
19 them on.
20 And after they have been trained in this
21 program, the -- they are allowed to take them
22 home and use them in the afternoons and in the
23 weekends. And they can keep them for as long
24 as they want to have them.
25 Then we have assessment, ongoing
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June 22, 1999
1 assessment, and monitoring of this program.
2 And that is done by the teacher.
3 In slide 12 -- okay -- we have nine
4 partners, and we're very, very proud of our
5 partnerships. Our partners are wonderful
6 assets for our school.
7 We also have volunteers and practicum
8 students from the University of West Florida.
9 And these people provide mentors for our
10 students. I am proud to say that we had
11 67 mentors.
12 And I am one person that says that I would
13 like to have 461 mentors. And I always say
14 that to everyone, because that would give one
15 mentor for every child, and that is very
16 important.
17 Along with providing the mentorship for our
18 children, they also give our school supplies --
19 school supplies for the students, directly to
20 the students, goes directly to them; and other
21 incentive motivational type programs for them.
22 The next slide shows our 1999-2000 school
23 year, and what we plan to do different.
24 We're going to continue some of our same
25 strategies because they have been successful.
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June 22, 1999
1 And we also are going to add some new
2 strategies.
3 We also have been allowed to reassign and
4 to reassess our staff members. And based on
5 their ability to reach at-risk children, the
6 Superintendent has given us complete authority
7 to take those teachers, and have them removed
8 from our schools.
9 In fact, we've already done that for this
10 coming school year --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many -- how many
12 teachers?
13 MS. LADNER: I will be either reassigning
14 or removing five.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Out of about the same
16 twenty --
17 MS. LADNER: I have 23. Yes, sir.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And you did some
19 last year, too.
20 MS. LADNER: Yes, I did.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So -- for the
22 record. This is an ongoing --
23 MS. LADNER: Yes, I did --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- process.
25 MS. LADNER: -- some last year also.
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June 22, 1999
1 We're going to add three reading teachers,
2 and two classroom teachers extra at our school,
3 along with two portables, because I am
4 overcrowded. But I'm getting the portables. I
5 know that's -- we -- we would like to have a
6 building, and they're going to build us a
7 building, it's just coming soon -- later on.
8 I'm going to have additional teacher
9 assistants in my 4th and 5th grade classrooms
10 to help in those classrooms. I'm going to add
11 five year-long interns from the University of
12 West Florida.
13 We're increasing our Foster Grandparent
14 Program from five grandparents to twelve
15 grandparents for next year, due to a grant that
16 was received through the Foster Grandparent
17 Program.
18 Our personnel will be participating in
19 several workshops to improve teacher
20 productivity in the following areas: In direct
21 instruction in reading, that's the SRA reading
22 program; in writing; AIMS activities, which
23 those are the activities --
24 (Secretary Harris exited the room.)
25 MS. LADNER: -- that integrate math and
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June 22, 1999
1 science with language arts; nonviolent crisis
2 intervention and prevention; and some math
3 resource training.
4 The math resource training is also going to
5 be SRA. We will eventually be a fully -- we
6 will fully implement SRA at Dixon, not just in
7 reading, but also in math, and in language
8 arts.
9 We will continue the successful programs in
10 reading and writing that we began last year.
11 We're going to add a mathematics teacher,
12 who will concentrate at the 4th and 5th grade
13 level.
14 We will pair with schools, and have already
15 done some of this this summer, with schools who
16 made significant gains in reading and writing,
17 and learn from them.
18 We will extend our learning time to
19 210 days.
20 We currently have broad discretion with our
21 funds. And the District has supported us in
22 providing the resources when we have needed
23 them. Any time we've needed anything, we've
24 asked, and we've been able to get that.
25 What we have to do now, and what I have to
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1 do now, is I have to turn my attention totally
2 on the instructional leadership at Dixon
3 Elementary School. And this is very important
4 as what we're trying to do is increase student
5 achievement.
6 We also have participated in the
7 Comprehensive Reform and Educational Innovation
8 Grant, which we will be using for direct
9 instruction in reading, and we will hire a
10 full-time coach to train and mentor teachers.
11 And this is a three-year program.
12 Over a three-year period, we will also be
13 training two teachers on staff to take over for
14 the one who is coming in from the company who
15 will be providing that assistance.
16 We will also have double time blocks in
17 reading for those students who need it in
18 Grades 2 through 5. We're adding an additional
19 writing teacher, and a series of instructional
20 workshops for effective practices in reading,
21 writing, and mathematics.
22 At A.A. Dixon Elementary School, we believe
23 that we have taken the necessary steps to
24 ensure highest student achievement in all of
25 our students. However, I want you to
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1 understand that substantial time takes --
2 substantial change takes time.
3 We believe that in time, we will see a
4 tremendous gain in our students' academic
5 achievement levels.
6 And I want to thank you for the opportunity
7 to present this to you all.
8 And with that, I would like to introduce to
9 you -- you already know her, Andrea Willett,
10 the Director of the Office of School
11 Improvement.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Ms. -- Ms. Ladner, could I
13 ask you --
14 MS. LADNER: Yes.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- a question?
16 I heard a -- I saw a quote that you gave,
17 and I want you -- I'd like for you to clarify
18 it, because it -- it contradicts what you just
19 said --
20 MS. LADNER: Yes.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- in your very fine --
22 MS. LADNER: Go right --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- presentation.
24 MS. LADNER: -- ahead.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: My school's not a failure.
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1 None of my children are failing. They're
2 learning, and they're learning at the level
3 with which they're capable of learning.
4 Put aside the definition of failure, I know
5 that that can be a debatable point. But the
6 last part of that phrase, I'm -- I was troubled
7 by, and --
8 MS. LADNER: Repeat the phrase one more
9 time.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: They're learning, and
11 they're learning at the level with which
12 they're capable of learning.
13 This was in response I guess to being on --
14 on the --
15 MS. LADNER: Right.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- 1 list.
17 MS. LADNER: If you will recall that
18 Mr. May, the Superintendent, mentioned that our
19 children come in at -- at -- at least we
20 think -- we feel about two years behind other
21 students as they come into the schools.
22 When they do that, we have to make up a lot
23 of time. And our children, they're gaining
24 tremendously each year. They're not just
25 gaining one year, they're gaining more than one
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1 year.
2 So my children are learning, and they're
3 learning and an extremely -- to what I can tell
4 you is an extremely high rate. It is just not
5 where -- what the level is that the FCAT will
6 test right now, or the CAT will test, or the --
7 We hope that that will happen, and I
8 believe, and I'm going to tell you this right
9 now: I firmly believe that the SRA Reading
10 Program is making those gains. And the Sing,
11 Spell, Read, and Write Program that we're doing
12 in the early years, K and 1, they are showing
13 great improvement.
14 Anyone who's been to my school has seen my
15 kindergarten children. And they can -- you can
16 see that I have children reading in
17 kindergarten, and, in fact, in most -- and I
18 don't want to -- I want to be specific in
19 this -- I believe we have alm-- all but three
20 or four in every classroom who read in
21 kindergarten at the end of this past year.
22 So what I mean by that is our children are
23 learning, and they're learning a lot, and
24 they're learning it quickly. But they have a
25 lot to catch up on. And that has to do with
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1 home environment, and other aspects of their
2 lives --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Again, you -- your
4 presentation, the underlying premise was that
5 they could learn, and they're going to learn --
6 MS. LADNER: Oh, ours are.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- and I think that
8 there -- every child is capable of learning
9 more than they do.
10 MS. LADNER: Yes.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: And so maybe it's just a
12 mis-- misreading on my part. But --
13 MS. LADNER: Well, I don't know. I just --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: From our perspective, that
15 the -- that you have unbridled optimism about
16 the chances of these children succeeding
17 because you're going to have unbridled
18 resources. Brought --
19 MS. LADNER: Well --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- to bear to the subject,
21 and this will defy the whole notion --
22 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that we're leaving kids
24 behind the way that you're going to organize
25 yourself around these kids.
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1 It'll shatter all the political rhetoric
2 and all the myth that has been built up -- I
3 might add, with great frustration on my part
4 because I'm kind of, you know, the guy with the
5 A+ on my forehead.
6 Here we are describing a comprehensive
7 strategy to deal with kids that haven't learned
8 as well as they -- they can. And I was moved
9 by both -- both presentations of two
10 educational leaders that say they can.
11 MS. LADNER: Well --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: I want -- I just want -- I
13 want to have that validated.
14 MS. LADNER: One thing I'm -- I always like
15 to say that education is not an exact science.
16 It is not. However, I know that we can't leave
17 any child behind. I've dedicated my life to
18 children. I'm 26 years in the business. And I
19 love kids.
20 And you've got to have dedicated, willing
21 faculty members and staff members, which at
22 Dixon, we have that.
23 And then you've got to find the right
24 program for your school. And we've looked for
25 that. We have diligently searched.
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1 Through our school improvement process,
2 through our OTE process that we used at the
3 very beginning of this five years ago, we've
4 searched and struggled and tried to find the
5 right program, and we really feel that we've
6 got the right program now.
7 We just know that it's going to take time.
8 We know it's going to take time.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: When did you become
10 principal?
11 MS. LADNER: Well, I have been Principal at
12 Dixon for three years. I was Acting Principal
13 for a year before that. Actually not even a
14 year before that, probably about six months
15 before that.
16 And then I was Curriculum Coordinator
17 previous to that. Yes.
18 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask a question?
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Please.
20 TREASURER NELSON: I'm curious, with your
21 enthusiasm and all of the things that you have
22 outlined to us that you have in place, do you
23 anticipate that any of your students, since
24 this school will become eligible for vouchers,
25 will be taking that route this year?
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1 MS. LADNER: Well, I really don't know the
2 answer to that question. I'm sure that it
3 looks good to some parents to be able to go to
4 a private school. I'm sure that that will look
5 good for some of the parents.
6 I can tell you that at this time, to my
7 knowledge, I have five parents that are, with
8 their families, willing to take that
9 opportunity.
10 I -- I don't know that I can answer that
11 question for you. I just -- I don't know that
12 I have an answer for you on that.
13 TREASURER NELSON: Right.
14 Governor, I'd like to ask the
15 Superintendent, if I may, a couple of
16 questions.
17 And maybe you need to be supplemented by
18 the prin-- the principals of the two schools.
19 In the goals of the school improvement
20 plans, each school has established percentages
21 for increases in student achievement for the
22 coming year. And that has been -- you've told
23 us how the percentages have come up in both
24 schools.
25 I commend you on the enthusiasm and the --
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1 the positive attitude that both of the
2 principals have.
3 I'm curious as we look to the future in
4 which we're going to judge whether you make it
5 or not, how were those percentages determined?
6 MR. MAY: Okay. The percentages are
7 basically termed on the basis of the scores
8 themselves by normal percentage methodology,
9 which would be taking the percent -- or the
10 number that was actually gone up, and then
11 divided by the total number of points that
12 would be available.
13 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Let me see
14 if I understand that --
15 MR. MAY: Uh-hum.
16 TREASURER NELSON: -- which I don't
17 understand what you just said. But --
18 MR. MAY: Remember, on the --
19 TREASURER NELSON: Let me -- let me give
20 you an example. As --
21 MR. MAY: Okay.
22 TREASURER NELSON: -- as --
23 MR. MAY: Okay.
24 TREASURER NELSON: -- it's my understanding
25 that your percentages that you are setting for
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1 your students to achieve, for example, on the
2 reading section of the FCAT, you're looking to
3 a 21 percent increase; on the math FCAT, you're
4 looking to a 17 percent increase; and on the
5 Florida Writes, you're looking for a 50 percent
6 increase.
7 And so I'm just curious how -- how did you
8 determine those percentages for these two
9 schools?
10 MR. MAY: Well, and it might be appropriate
11 to let the principals -- those were made
12 collaboratively with their School Advisory
13 Councils, with their staff, with their District
14 facilitators as goals.
15 And -- and those are goals. That means
16 this is what they would like to achieve. And
17 they believe --
18 TREASURER NELSON: Okay.
19 MR. MAY: -- their students --
20 TREASURER NELSON: I'd like to hear you
21 all --
22 MR. MAY: Sure.
23 TREASURER NELSON: -- respond, and tell
24 me --
25 MR. MAY: Uh-hum.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: -- since you established
2 those, you obviously think that they are -- are
3 realistic goals.
4 And how do you -- how is a realistic
5 goal -- and I commend you for this, if -- if
6 this is your goal. I just want to find out
7 what's behind it, a 50 percent increase on
8 Florida Writes.
9 MS. LADNER: Well, first off, that -- the
10 State standard is what we're trying to reach.
11 That's what we want to do, and that's what
12 every school wants to do.
13 So the 50 percent is where the State says
14 we need to be, and that's what we're going to
15 do. We're going to work toward that end. That
16 is exactly where we're going to be.
17 And I don't have a doubt that we won't do
18 it. I know we will.
19 Is that --
20 MS. SCOTT: And since they're two years
21 old, we've taken them --
22 MS. LADNER: Yes.
23 MS. SCOTT: -- whatever those criteria is
24 at the State level, we try to divide them into
25 half, and we try to make sure that we
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1 accomplish half of it the first year, half the
2 second.
3 But we've accomplished enough to get us to
4 the State standards for the first year. And we
5 want to go beyond that, but we want to be -- we
6 do want to -- our kids to be held to the same
7 standards. You know, we're trying to get them
8 there as quickly as possible.
9 TREASURER NELSON: The Superintendent said
10 that you all had the participation of the
11 School Advisory Councils. Tell us about that.
12 Did you have the active involvement of the
13 School Advisory Councils in the setting of
14 those percentages?
15 MS. SCOTT: Yes, sir, we did. We involved
16 them. And before we could even submit them to
17 anyone, we must get approval from the Council.
18 So, yes, they did.
19 MS. LADNER: Do you want me to answer the
20 question?
21 I would like to say to you that I had
22 100 percent participation from my School
23 Advisory Council. However, at most meetings, I
24 would have less than half of my members of my
25 School Advisory Council to participate. And at
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1 any one time when we would have a meeting, it
2 might not be the same people.
3 So we did have -- we -- when we went to get
4 our school improvement plan approved, however,
5 every person on -- that had -- was a member of
6 our school improvement -- School Advisory
7 Council, did get a copy of the plan, and did
8 sign that they had gotten a copy.
9 TREASURER NELSON: In your particular two
10 schools, is there any problem there with regard
11 to out-of-field teachers?
12 MS. LADNER: I don't have any.
13 MS. SCOTT: No, sir. We have never had
14 out-of-field teachers. We always make sure
15 that we hire in-fields.
16 MS. LADNER: And I --
17 TREASURER NELSON: The same.
18 MS. LADNER: -- don't have any.
19 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Now, one
20 other statistic that caught my eye was the
21 incidence of crime and violence at the two
22 schools.
23 And what I noted at both of them, you had
24 back in the 94-95 year, you had high incidence
25 of crime. You had at A.A. Dixon, 129 incidents
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1 of crime, and 25 percent of the student body
2 was suspended.
3 And then for thereafter, it was zero. So
4 you went from a lot of crime and suspensions to
5 zero in one year. How --
6 MS. LADNER: I don't know --
7 TREASURER NELSON: -- how'd you do that?
8 MS. LADNER: Now, I don't know where you
9 got a zero in suspensions.
10 TREASURER NELSON: They stopped counting?
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean --
12 MS. LADNER: No, no, no. That shouldn't be
13 the case, zero suspensions.
14 But I do want to say this: One of the
15 programs that we had to work on first at Dixon
16 was the discipline. We had to get a
17 school-wide discipline plan.
18 We initiated the Stop and Think Program for
19 social skills because as we teach children to
20 read and write and do mathematics, we must also
21 teach them the things that they're not taught
22 at home, which is unfortunate, and that is how
23 to behave in school.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I --
25 MS. LADNER: And --
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1 TREASURER NELSON: -- I want to -- I want
2 to find -- I want you to explain this to me --
3 MS. LADNER: Go ahead.
4 TREASURER NELSON: -- because this is --
5 MS. LADNER: I'm fixing to.
6 TREASURER NELSON: -- because this is kind
7 of extraordinary. And it's the same for the
8 other school, if my -- I've just got the chart
9 here for Dixon.
10 And in the 94-95 year, you had
11 129 incidents of crime and violence, you had
12 25 percent suspensions.
13 The next year, the next year, and the next
14 year, you had zero in both categories. And
15 I think we have the chart for the other school.
16 How --
17 MS. LADNER: And I don't -- we report all
18 of our referrals into the computer into our
19 District. And that goes over, I'm sure, to the
20 State.
21 And I can tell you that suspensions weren't
22 zero. So I'm not sure where that information
23 came from, or how it got there.
24 Now, I do want to say to you, and many,
25 many people have been to visit Dixon. We have
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1 fantastic discipline at Dixon. And we -- we
2 really do. Our children are very well behaved.
3 Numerous members of the Commission of Ed--
4 the Educational -- the Department of Education
5 have been and have seen that our program at
6 Dixon is working. It is working very well.
7 Our children know how to behave. And that
8 is what we put a lot of emphasis on the first
9 three years, tremendous amount of emphasis on
10 that. Not just in the negative, but in the
11 positive sense.
12 TREASURER NELSON: Well, in -- on the basis
13 of this chart, you're doing very well.
14 MS. LADNER: I have to say, I don't know
15 that that chart --
16 TREASURER NELSON: And I want to know how.
17 MS. LADNER: I -- now, I can also say that
18 we do have in-school suspension also as well.
19 MR. MAY: Let me have a shot, if I can,
20 please, Treasurer Nelson.
21 Basically what happened in the 94-95 school
22 year is that the State changed the reporting
23 methodology, and what was considered violent
24 crime.
25 Back in -- prior to that time, and during
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1 that year, anything could be a violent crime.
2 If -- if you slapped a teacher who was telling
3 you to sit down as a 1st grader or a
4 kindergartner, that could be a violent crime.
5 That whole reporting system changed that
6 year. And violent crimes now, as the
7 Commissioner and others are well aware, mean
8 violent crimes. They don't just mean slapping
9 of the hand or something of that nature.
10 And basically, I would invite you to come
11 visit those schools, because they are not
12 blackboard jungles. They are places where
13 education is occurring, they are places where
14 you can walk into a 2nd grade class and very
15 well hear a group of 2nd graders stand up and
16 sing Italian opera, as the Commissioner has
17 heard.
18 I'm saying to you that they are not
19 blackboard jungles, these are correct for
20 incidence of violent crime. There are
21 suspensions that occur in both schools, but
22 they are minor in nature.
23 And those schools truly, even though they
24 are -- they are established and maintained in
25 some of the toughest districts in our county,
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1 they are free of crime and violent actions.
2 TREASURER NELSON: Mr. May, I have been
3 complimenting your principals --
4 MR. MAY: Yeah.
5 TREASURER NELSON: -- on the basis of their
6 obvious caring.
7 MR. MAY: Right.
8 TREASURER NELSON: And I'm trying to have
9 an understanding of what the difference is in
10 the reporting. And you suggest that there is
11 that --
12 MR. MAY: The criteria changed.
13 TREASURER NELSON: If I could, Tom, if --
14 if we could just have somebody, as a
15 follow-up -- there's no sense to take up --
16 time up here -- just as a follow-up, tell us
17 about the change in those reporting procedures.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right.
19 We can get that done. We can do it at the
20 next meeting, if you'd like.
21 There is in the release that we did
22 yesterday, you'll have a -- a list that breaks
23 out out-of-school suspensions. And I don't
24 happen -- they're going to get me a copy of it.
25 It's sitting out here. I didn't -- don't have
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1 it up here.
2 And -- of all -- what we did is break down
3 all of the schools in Escambia County, the
4 grade level of the school, what the subject
5 tests were, and some additional data that the
6 Governor now has, and we don't I think.
7 TREASURER NELSON: In the -- in the
8 Spencer Bibbs school, did you have the
9 participation of the School Advisory Councils
10 like they did at A.A. Dixon?
11 MS. SCOTT: Yes, sir, we did.
12 TREASURER NELSON: Did you have a similar
13 experience, about half of the parents on the
14 Advisory Council showed up?
15 MS. SCOTT: Yes, sir. That's one of the
16 goals that we are -- in our school improvement
17 plan, that we are addressing, to try to get
18 more parental involvement, because the change
19 is pretty much like the mobility rate,
20 sometimes you'll see a parent here or the
21 Advisory Council may change from month to
22 month.
23 But we do have similar circumstances there.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Just to --
25 Spencer Bibbs in 1998 reported .7 out of school
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1 suspensions, none in 1999.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Point seven?
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And A.A. Dixon
4 showed no out of school suspensions in either
5 year.
6 All the schools that end up on a critical
7 list end up having a much higher absentee rate
8 than before.
9 And, if you would, please tell us what
10 y'all are doing in regards to absenteeism in
11 those schools at this point.
12 MS. SCOTT: For absenteeism?
13 We're -- we're trying to put, first of all,
14 in place things that will keep our children --
15 programs that will keep our children in school.
16 But whenever students are absent, and what
17 we do is we report it to our visiting teacher.
18 And our visiting teachers will go out and do a
19 home visit to find out why the children are
20 absent, and to try to get them back in school
21 as soon as possible, whether it's because of a
22 move, or whatever.
23 We also have teachers who are checking. We
24 have telephones in the classrooms where they're
25 able to call parents at home to find out what's
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1 keeping them from coming to school.
2 So we do -- and if it gets too severe, one
3 of the things that we will do is if we need to,
4 we could take -- we do try to take them to
5 court to try to encourage them to get back in
6 school. Because we know this is the only way
7 that they're going to learn.
8 Those are just some of the things that
9 we've tried.
10 MS. LADNER: Just one extra. I -- I know
11 that Mrs. Scott does this also. I go pick them
12 up.
13 MS. SCOTT: That's right. We do serve.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who's -- any other
15 questions, comments?
16 What's next here?
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We -- next is from
18 Ms. Willett.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is the -- is it -- is the
20 Chairman of the School Board here? Is he going
21 to speak? Or is --
22 MR. PIERSON: Yes -- yes, sir, he is here
23 if you would like to --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Be a good time
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1 now.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- losing your order.
3 Go ahead. I'm -- I'm --
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. It's a good
5 time.
6 Andrea, wait.
7 MS. WILLETT: You want to hear from --
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yes.
9 MS. WILLETT: Thank you.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Mr. Chairman.
11 I'm sorry. Please.
12 DR. MASON: Governor Bush, Ms. Harris,
13 gentlemen, it's a pleasure for me to be here
14 today.
15 Although, let me say, I admire your
16 patience and your fortitude. I -- if I ran a
17 meeting that took as many hours as you do,
18 I think they'd chase me out of town. And
19 you're to be commended for sitting there for --
20 and listening so patiently.
21 I feel a little like maybe the second row
22 is full of Goliath, and I'm David here without
23 a slingshot.
24 I -- I have an alternative proposal to make
25 that some of you may have seen.
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1 Let me say that I speak as an educator,
2 more than 25 years as an administrator in
3 another state.
4 And I speak for my constituents on the west
5 side of Escambia County. The one school in the
6 County that got an A is one -- is where I
7 campaigned the most.
8 So my feelings generally represent --
9 although there are some things about the
10 A+ plan that I probably would revert to my
11 education background, I feel that I'm
12 representing my constituents. And I walked the
13 streets for a year, and I think I know how they
14 feel.
15 I knocked on almost every door, and talked
16 to all kinds of people, and carried every
17 precinct.
18 And I also speak for two-and-a-half Board
19 members.
20 But most of all, I speak for the children.
21 They're probably the weakest segment of our
22 community, and they need the greatest spokesman
23 of all.
24 The -- the Federal government sees schools
25 as an interest. Schools are a Federal
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1 interest. They're your responsibility, a State
2 responsibility. And they're a local function.
3 And I see the function as being in need of some
4 tweaking, probably throughout the state.
5 Probably throughout the country.
6 You have two plans before you: One is
7 thick, and the other is my -- my own
8 recommendations, which are only two pages long.
9 And I think the big difference in them is
10 the -- the vehicle. I think most of what
11 Mr. Pettis, Mr. May, and his group have
12 suggested to you are generally good ideas.
13 I think they're moving along a good direction.
14 But I think the vehicle needs to be
15 overhauled, and some -- some of the function
16 needs to be innovatively changed.
17 I would ask you not to judge the two
18 proposals by their weight, but by their
19 content. Without -- with just a little
20 exception, a great deal of the plan is more of
21 the same. The exceptions being things that
22 I think the State Board of Education suggested,
23 along with some innovative procedures that
24 the Board -- that the administration itself
25 suggested.
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1 I think the State pressed for the parent
2 meetings and the students being bused to --
3 back to their original school where they could
4 stay with their classmates.
5 But my concern is on those parts that are
6 more of the same, that's a cause for the
7 current conditions. Occasionally you need
8 administrative changes, changes in
9 administrative direction.
10 I don't see a lot of that. And research
11 shows that the only real way that you get
12 immediate improvement is two-fold -- two things
13 together, concurrently: Greater parent
14 participation, and a new staff that looks at
15 things a new way.
16 For example, the 210-day school year as
17 compared to the 180-day school year, you get
18 another 30 days, but they're broken up into
19 three segments of about 10 days each.
20 What can you really do in 10 days? How can
21 you gear up? If the same teacher isn't keeping
22 her same children, it's going to take her
23 10 days to get used to them.
24 Fortunately, we have some history on
25 extended school year, year-round schools. The
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1 Beulah school in my district, and the
2 Navy Point school down in the Warrington area.
3 Neither of them have shown significant change
4 as a result of the extra 30 days.
5 Warr-- Warrington -- or Navy Point showed
6 slight growth, but Beulah school showed a
7 slight decline, neither significant. And the
8 extra 30 days are an extra 16.6 percent of
9 instructional time.
10 So I'd submit to you, it isn't the quantity
11 of instruction, but the quality of what goes on
12 in the classroom.
13 The real meat and potatoes of what I would
14 propose to you is on the second page dealing
15 with incentives and accountability. I think
16 there should be accountability.
17 I would ask you, your Board, to be bold,
18 and to risk excellence, and to realize that
19 even if there were administrative changes, no
20 one would lose their job in this District of
21 6500 people, where there's a great deal of
22 flexibility.
23 Just last week, the San Dieg-- San Diego
24 Tribune came out with a big article on their
25 new Superintendent, Dr. Burson, who's a former
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1 Federal attorney, just finishing his first
2 year, very recently demoted 15 ineffective
3 principals for what he called lacking in
4 leadership.
5 Eight of them were in the -- in the area
6 with the highest scoring schools, La Jolla.
7 Most of you are aware of La Jolla, and that
8 particular area.
9 The School Board representative there
10 uncharacteristically supported it
11 wholeheartedly.
12 He had previously removed
13 104 administrative positions from their
14 downtown staff, and used that 8 million dollars
15 to hire literacy -- or to put together a
16 literacy academy.
17 As a result of these things, the people --
18 you know, the -- in their infinite wisdom, the
19 voters really understand school, and I think
20 they even understand politics, because they've
21 been trying to pass a bond issue out there for
22 years.
23 As a result of the things that Dr. Burson
24 did, they passed a 1.51 billion, with a B,
25 dollar bond issue, 78 percent of the vote.
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1 So I say to you: The people who elected
2 you folks probably have that same kind of
3 foresight and intelligence, and I would ask you
4 to be as creative in your decision on what
5 you're going to do here today. Because
6 I believe that education's too important to be
7 left to the bureaucrats.
8 Finally, we have a thing in Escambia County
9 called zero tolerance. And I support it
10 wholeheartedly.
11 You know -- you've been reading about the
12 toenail clippers and this type thing. And
13 we'll be dealing with it more as it goes along.
14 But I do support a zero tolerance. I just
15 don't think it should be stopped at the level
16 of the student. I think we should have
17 zero tolerance for schools that are failing
18 children.
19 Especially those people to whom we entrust
20 our children.
21 The law has given you authority to use
22 zero tolerance in this area, and I would ask
23 you to use it.
24 Finally, Governor Gray Davis, your
25 counterpart in California, has made some major
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1 changes in education, and I never thought I
2 would hear Gray Davis say this, former aide to
3 a person they call Moonbeam Jerry Brown a
4 number of years ago.
5 Gray Davis says he will have accountability
6 there. And if his programs don't vastly
7 improve the schools, he won't run for a second
8 term.
9 I don't know how you can get more than
10 that.
11 But I -- I would --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Expecting me to say the
13 same thing now in front of all these newspaper
14 reporters?
15 DR. MASON: No. I was --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Nice try.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sure -- I think my
18 opponents have already said it. So -- he's
19 right.
20 DR. MASON: I would ask you to be an
21 exemplary State Board, help our Superintendent
22 become an exemplary Superintendent, and I
23 promise you that exemplary students will
24 follow.
25 Thank you. And I'll be available for any
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1 questions.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
3 Thank you for your patience.
4 I saw you here in the morning.
5 DR. MASON: Thank you.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions, comments?
7 Please.
8 MS. WILLETT: I just wanted to close out
9 the -- this portion of this by sharing with you
10 what our recommendations -- "our" being the
11 Department of Education recommendations to the
12 schools were after working with them for --
13 intensively for a year, and less intensively
14 the years before that.
15 First of all, we recommended a
16 comprehensive K-5 reading improvement
17 strategies in their plan. The earlier plan had
18 certainly looked at all the grade levels, but
19 the plan itself did not specifically state all
20 the grade levels. And so we asked that they do
21 that, and they did that.
22 We asked them to report more frequently to
23 the -- to their community, to their local
24 School Board, and to the Commissioner of
25 Education. They are reporting every grading
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1 period. They have incorporated all those
2 recommendations.
3 In the area of mathematics, we asked them
4 again to take a look at the K-5, making sure
5 that they had every grade level addressed. We
6 asked them to make it very comprehensive and
7 cohesive.
8 We asked them to make sure that they had
9 final reporting to their community, to their --
10 and to the Commissioner of Education.
11 The District and the schools have
12 incorporated those recommendations.
13 We asked them to make sure that the writing
14 improvement strategies that they had were both
15 K-5 and comprehensive.
16 We asked them to make more frequent
17 reporting, more frequent monitoring of student
18 progress. The District and the school have
19 incorporated those recommendations as well.
20 Again, in anticipation of the potential for
21 the signing of the legislation that currently
22 is in -- in effect, and because the school was
23 beginning in July, we wanted to make sure the
24 parents were notified of what all potential
25 options might be.
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1 The District immediately embraced that, and
2 did send out a letter, making sure they have
3 begun their process. And, in fact, I think
4 they've followed up with another letter last
5 week or this week as well.
6 So finally our recommendation to you is
7 under the current policies and procedures, in
8 order for these schools to move forward, to
9 begin their school year in July with the
10 students that they have; with the potential for
11 some students moving into the opportunity
12 scholarship venue; for students to make sure
13 that they have a comprehensive, cohesive
14 program of instruction, we're suggesting that
15 you accept the revised locally adopted plans
16 that you have before you on the right-hand side
17 of your packet, and the incorporated
18 intensified District assistance and
19 intervention plans that are also on the
20 right-hand side of your packet.
21 And name those as the required actions
22 for -- of this body to the District and to the
23 school, which requires both schools to meet the
24 State standards in all three subject areas in
25 the next two-year period.
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1 Thank you, Governor.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'll move --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'll move that,
6 Governor.
7 MR. PIERSON: We have a parent in the
8 audience who would like to speak on the
9 subject.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
11 MR. PIERSON: John Wyche.
12 MR. WYCHE: Governor Bush, members of the
13 Cabinet, just wanted to say thank you for this
14 opportunity to come before you.
15 I am a parent. I got up at 4:00 o'clock
16 this morning to come here to listen to this
17 presentation. I'm also Assistant Professor of
18 aerospace science out at UWF at -- in -- in
19 Pensacola.
20 And -- and I'm just delighted to hear this
21 school system attacking this problem the way
22 they're -- they're attacking it.
23 And I'm also -- I'm also a little biased
24 with one of the schools, and that's
25 Spencer Bibbs. We've -- we've been able to --
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1 just to Spencer Bibbs in the last few -- few
2 weeks, we've gotten the Supervisor of Elections
3 to be a -- to be a volunteer at Spencer Bibbs.
4 The Supervisor of Elections is going to be
5 the volunteer -- one of the volunteers at
6 Spencer Bibbs.
7 A stockbroker is now -- has been mentoring,
8 I think -- talking to -- to children for,
9 what -- for the last two or three weeks.
10 A stockbroker.
11 I mean, you know, so we've got elected
12 official, we've got professionals. And -- and
13 I've -- I've actually sat in on the FCAT test.
14 And -- and I remember one student in
15 particular --
16 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
17 MR. WYCHE: -- Ms. Scott said that he
18 doesn't want to take the test.
19 So I got in there and was -- was just
20 talking to him about it, hey, you know, you
21 need to take this test, young man. I mean,
22 this -- this is -- this is not playing.
23 I mean, Ms. Scott has -- has sicked me on
24 you, and I'm going to -- I'm going to stay on
25 you like a dog until you do what you need to
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1 do.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Look at Ms. Scott laughing.
3 MR. WYCHE: And he -- and he -- and he took
4 the test. But he was not going to take that
5 test because he was just afraid for his life of
6 that test.
7 And -- and -- and one of the other things
8 that I wanted to just briefly talk about --
9 I -- I just couldn't -- I guess after getting
10 up at 4:00 o'clock, I just couldn't sit here
11 and -- and listen to anyone give an alternate
12 to what I consider from the School District to
13 be a well thought-out plan.
14 And I -- I just want to make sure that
15 they're given all the -- the tools. And as --
16 and I personally know Ms. Scott, personally
17 know, she sicked -- but I've got to say, she
18 put me on that little boy. And -- and the
19 little boy took the test.
20 And I want to just let you know that -- and
21 it's something that we always talk about.
22 Children in Escambia County, and throughout
23 America didn't lose any brain cells between
24 1965 and 1999.
25 And because of your bold leadership, we've
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1 raised the bar and the expectation level. And
2 I don't care where they come from, Governor, I
3 don't care where a child comes from. Man, I
4 don't like to call them kids, because kids are
5 goats.
6 Children -- these children are going to
7 succeed, period. End of discussion. And I'm
8 from Pensacola, from Escambia County, I was
9 born and raised.
10 And, like I said, I got up at 4:00 o'clock,
11 I could not sit there and not -- not -- not get
12 up and tell you about the success story,
13 specifically at Spencer Bibbs.
14 But the other thing I wanted to talk to you
15 about -- and I'll get off -- get out of here,
16 because I know I'm -- I'm messing up their
17 excellent presentation.
18 But this body needs to come to
19 Spencer Bibbs. And, once again, I'm selfish
20 because, you know, I'm -- I've kind of like
21 adopted Spencer Bibbs.
22 I'd like for you to come to Spencer Bibbs,
23 and -- but come to Spencer Bibbs first, and
24 then go to A.A. Dixon second.
25 But I'm going to ask you to -- you come to
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1 Spencer Bibbs and hold one of these meetings.
2 I think you guys are going to have meetings
3 periodically.
4 Like for you to come to Spencer Bibbs and
5 hold that meeting. Can you imagine the --
6 what -- what would happen around that
7 community. They have -- you guys -- I don't
8 know about a security problem that you guys
9 would cause by showing up.
10 But -- but I'd like for you to come to --
11 to Spencer Bibbs --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: They've got no security
13 problems apparently. Zero, you remember?
14 It's the safest place in Florida.
15 MR. WYCHE: And surely last, but not
16 least -- surely last, but not least, and I'll
17 get out of here.
18 Surely last, but not least, there is --
19 dollars are not going to deal with this
20 problem.
21 But the Superintendent is showing bold
22 leadership by giving the principals the
23 latitude to get rid of ineffective classroom
24 leadership. I think that needs to be
25 applauded, I'd like to see more of it --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Amen.
2 MR. WYCHE: -- and I -- I'm glad that it's
3 happening. And if it's happening because of
4 competition, then so be it.
5 But my little thing -- and I'll -- and
6 this, I promise, is the last thing.
7 Competition is only going to make
8 champions. And I guarantee you, those two
9 schools that you saw are going to be champions.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
11 Mr. Gallagher has made a motion.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I have.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'd just like to summarize
16 where we -- where we are here, and -- and
17 discuss this just a little bit more.
18 We are -- since we are kind of making
19 history here, this is -- the timing of this,
20 yesterday the bill was signed, today the --
21 these two schools are setting a precedent
22 perhaps for how we will deal with schools that
23 sometime in the next month, the Commissioner
24 will come to the Board of Education with a list
25 of the schools that may be F rated based on the
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1 A+ plan.
2 So this is important, and I -- I hope
3 you'll bear with me, because I want to
4 summarize what -- what we're doing here, the
5 schools, the county, and the -- and the State.
6 We're implementing --
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Just before you do
8 that --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- if we may.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I would -- I would
13 like to let everyone know that from the
14 Department of Education's point of view, I
15 don't particularly feel comfortable letting
16 people believe that this is the precedent for
17 all schools that are F.
18 Maybe that's what you're going to say, and
19 if you are, I don't want to --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well --
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- do that.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I'm -- I'm -- I hope it
23 isn't. Because I -- I think we need to go --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It isn't what
25 you're going to say, or hope --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Both.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- in the
3 precedent.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Both.
5 I think every school needs to develop its
6 own unique strategy --
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That -- okay.
8 Well then -- then you're going to be saying
9 what I --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: But I also believe that
11 what I believe isn't the only thing that
12 matters, that sometimes precedent is set by the
13 first things you do.
14 So I want to -- I want to make sure that we
15 are as bold as we can be to provide support for
16 these two schools.
17 And so to summarize, first we're
18 implementing a K through 5 reading, math, and
19 writing improvement strategy with frequent
20 reporting so that we know where we are. To
21 avoid the Orange Charter example of the
22 morning, the lines of communication must be --
23 must remain open.
24 There are additional resources that weren't
25 really described that much from the Department
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1 of Education, but I want to confirm that there
2 is the Reading Initiative Grant, Comprehensive
3 Social Reform Demonstration Grant.
4 We're going to notify parents and families
5 in as open a way as possible about their
6 options, which are dramatically changed.
7 We have total public school choice for the
8 parents in these schools, we have -- they're
9 going to be able to go back to a school that is
10 reinvigorated and excited about providing a
11 quality education to them on the same premise;
12 and they will also -- will be afforded an
13 opportunity scholarship to go to selected
14 private schools.
15 We're also --
16 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the School District's
18 changing the policy on school zones to address
19 the high mobility rate.
20 They're allowing students to continue to
21 attend Bibbs and Dixon, regardless of
22 residence, and have transportation for them,
23 which is a -- a very innovative, and thoughtful
24 way of dealing with a problem that exists,
25 particularly in -- in lower income areas, which
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1 makes it harder for teachers to teach when
2 there's that much change in their -- in their
3 student population.
4 They're going to increase the after school
5 and Saturday -- begin Saturday tutorial
6 programs for students with -- that have been
7 identified with low scores.
8 Parent/teacher conferences are going to
9 occur every six weeks in the evening when
10 parents can attend. And I'm sure -- we didn't
11 hear too much about this -- but there's going
12 to be increased efforts to include parents more
13 in their children's education, and make it
14 easy -- as easy as possible for them to
15 participate.
16 There's going to be progress reports to the
17 State Board of Education in the -- on a time --
18 I guess quarterly basis; is that right?
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think we're
20 doing it every six weeks, aren't we?
21 MS. WILLETT: We've asked the schools to
22 report every six weeks to the --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
24 MS. WILLETT: -- Commissioner. And he will
25 be bringing those to you at a -- at a schedule
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1 that you approve.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: And I think that those are
3 incredibly good steps. And I was very
4 impressed with the principals of the schools
5 and their -- and their -- and their
6 presentations.
7 I'd like to -- I'd like to have it in
8 writing that the principals of these schools
9 have total authority to transfer staff. If
10 this is a -- an understanding between the
11 Superintendent and the principals, I think it
12 ought to be formalized, because it is a very
13 positive step.
14 We're counting on the leaders of these
15 schools to be true leaders, not managers,
16 not -- you know, assistant vice-presidents
17 five levels down.
18 We're -- you're a CEO of this enterprise,
19 and your children will learn because you have
20 the power to -- to hire and fire, or at
21 least -- not fire -- but certainly to hire and
22 transfer others that may not share your vision.
23 And I also would add that -- one other
24 element of this -- would make a suggestion at
25 least that -- that this Board consider it.
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1 And that is that we pay the teachers that
2 attend -- that are teaching in this school more
3 up front, and we give them a bonus -- call it
4 whatever you want -- for achieving the specific
5 performance criteria that are laid out here so
6 that we make -- make a loud testament to the
7 importance of teachers.
8 And there -- there are many ways to reward
9 teachers, but, let's face it, the most
10 important way to reward anybody is -- in an
11 intellectually honest way, to match the
12 achievement of students with their -- with some
13 form of monetary bonus, merit pay, call it what
14 you want -- I don't really care about the --
15 how -- how we -- we go about that.
16 But there is a direct incentive for
17 teachers that are on the front lines that we're
18 asking them to disprove this myth that has been
19 built up for so long that somehow a group of
20 kids can learn, and other group -- and another
21 group of kids can't.
22 I -- I -- I know you all can do it. I'm
23 absolutely convinced that you can do it. And
24 you have the right spirit and right attitude,
25 and I believe you all -- I'd add the
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1 principals, of course, in this.
2 But principals and teachers should be -- we
3 should hold you up high as great examples of
4 what can happen, and you should be rewarded
5 monetarily when it does.
6 So that would be -- the -- I was
7 summarizing till that part. And would ask a
8 member of the -- of the Board to perhaps add
9 that as an amendment to -- to this -- to this
10 contract that we're now embarking on.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, I'd like
12 to -- to offer just that amendment. I -- I
13 have put it in these words. I guess -- I think
14 your words were adequate.
15 But would offer the amendment to the motion
16 that'd allow teachers at the two schools to be
17 additionally compensated for making a
18 commitment to teach at -- at Bibbs and Dixon,
19 and provide them incentive pay for successfully
20 improving student achievement at a level which
21 removes the schools from the critically low
22 performing list.
23 And I'd offer that as an amendment to
24 the -- Commissioner Gallagher's motion.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Any discussion?
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I -- I will point
5 out that I happen to agree with teachers
6 getting paid more when they're in doing a
7 tougher job. There's no doubt about it.
8 And I also happen to like to see rewards
9 for teachers that -- that do an excellent job
10 and carrying it above.
11 And there is one minor problem I want to
12 point out to everybody here so just -- so we're
13 on the up and ups, and that is that one of the
14 issues that exists constitutionally is that
15 there is a thing called collective bargaining
16 in this state.
17 And is this meant -- how is this -- I just
18 need you all to tell me how we're supposed to
19 deal with this.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, as I understand it,
21 the law that was signed into law yesterday
22 allows for -- the ability to do this, that we
23 can declare an emergency, and --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Not --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- if --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- I don't think
2 it allows us to do that, I think it allows the
3 School Board to do that.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, that's what we're --
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- doing.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- we're asking
8 the School Board to do this, or we're telling
9 them? I mean, I -- I'm just trying to get it
10 so I understand what we're doing.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: We are -- we have the
12 authority as the Board of Education to make
13 recommendations to these plans.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's true.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's not part of the
16 A+ plan. That was in existence with the -- the
17 whole creation of critically low performing
18 schools.
19 And so based on that authority, this
20 amendment creates this as -- as an obligation
21 for the approval of these plans.
22 And they have the authority, based on this
23 law, to do it.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Just so it's
25 clarified.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Mr. Superintendent,
2 you want to comment.
3 MR. MAY: Please.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do any of the lawyers want
5 to step up and say that I'm wrong, I'd be happy
6 to hear it. But I think I'm right.
7 MR. MAY: I do believe that I do need to
8 respond to that. And -- and would like to,
9 first of all, respond by saying that at
10 the Board meeting yesterday, the Chairman of
11 the Board, who has been before you today,
12 presented a proposal to add incentive pay to
13 teachers. That proposal did fail. It failed
14 3-2.
15 The plan that was presented to you today
16 did pass 4-1.
17 Just -- just want to say to you about
18 incentive pay, and we have discussed this
19 issue, that -- I'm going to be more than honest
20 with you, which may not be appreciated, but
21 I -- I could not go sit in that seat if I did
22 not do this.
23 I do not believe that paying someone
24 additional dollars for doing their job sends a
25 message that I think should be sent to the
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1 teachers in Escambia County.
2 I believe that saying to -- to all teachers
3 that we expect you to do a good job without
4 additional dollars, this is a contract that you
5 signed, will be the right message to send.
6 Certainly I will be the first one to want
7 to celebrate with these teachers, and I do
8 believe that the leadership of these
9 principals, and -- and what's happening at
10 those schools will be celebrated because they
11 are going to come off.
12 I also further -- further believe that it
13 would be very demoralizing for those teachers
14 who are in those As and B and C schools to see
15 teachers in F schools getting additional
16 dollars.
17 We have agreed to add additional dollars to
18 their salaries for additional time spent at the
19 school, which we are asking.
20 Now, you may disagree with that, Governor,
21 and I -- and certainly --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. I -- I am happy that
23 you're doing that. But that's -- that's --
24 MR. MAY: But my point to you, sir --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Work -- work done for --
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1 that's -- work pay for work done. It's just --
2 MR. MAY: My point is that as a teacher --
3 and I was one for 16 years. I have 28 years in
4 the system. This isn't a pastime, this isn't a
5 hobby, this isn't a political thing.
6 I believe that I ought to do my job,
7 regardless. And I think that of the
8 2500 teachers in Escambia County, 2499 of them
9 probably believe the same thing.
10 And so that all that I would say to this
11 Board is: We do intend to pay them additional
12 dollars, but let's not put them as merit.
13 I was a part of the merit program back in
14 the -- the early '80s, when people received
15 $3,000 additional. I had the highest SSAT
16 scores, which was the State test at that time
17 in the state of Florida.
18 I did not receive the supplement because I
19 didn't have a Master's degree in math at the
20 time. The gentleman next to me did have one in
21 music, and got it.
22 So all I'm saying to you is that --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: You have a simple --
24 that -- that merit pay plan --
25 MR. MAY: Right.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- failed because it did
2 not have --
3 MR. MAY: It was demoralizing, sir.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: But -- but we have in front
5 of us a -- a plan in place, we've had a
6 commitment by very committed educators to say,
7 we're going to make this happen. And I think
8 we should reward them when it happens.
9 It is not like getting a Master's. That's
10 an input driven performance -- it's not a
11 performance criteria.
12 We have -- you have put your name on the
13 dotted line saying, this is what's going to
14 happen in these two schools. And to create a
15 pool of money to reward the teachers that --
16 that do it -- doesn't have to be a complicated
17 process.
18 I don't know what -- what the discussion
19 was at the Board level. I was told that the
20 performance criteria that was discussed was
21 quite complicated. This can be a simple
22 bump up in pay to begin with, it doesn't have
23 to be a lot of money.
24 But I -- I do think that when teachers make
25 the commitment to teach the kids that are in
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1 these kind of schools that are -- where the
2 challenges are unique, that they are deserving
3 of higher pay. And when they perform as we
4 expect them to, that they should be rewarded.
5 And I don't think that that's disrespectful
6 at all of teaching, I think the exact opposite.
7 Now, we disagree. But I -- I'm making that
8 proposal --
9 MR. MAY: -- respectfully --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I'm not sure the Board
11 will agree with me, but I -- I -- I wanted to
12 take this opportunity to -- to do this, and
13 it's within the A+ plans dictates. And we'll
14 see what happens.
15 MR. MAY: Well, thank you for giving me the
16 opportunity --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
18 MR. MAY: -- to say how I feel.
19 Thank you.
20 TREASURER NELSON: It's my understanding,
21 Governor, that what was passed in -- in the
22 law, and whatever declaration that we make here
23 is all subject to the laws with regard to the
24 contract that is negotiated at the local level.
25 Is that correct?
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
2 TREASURER NELSON: Okay.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's what we're doing
4 right now.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Okay.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm pretty sure.
7 DR. MASON: Just to respond briefly --
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
9 DR. MASON: -- the -- I believe that the
10 opposition on the Board yesterday was to
11 involuntary transfers.
12 I believe if that had not been in there,
13 had it just been merit pay, I -- I'm sure it
14 would have been 3-2. I believe that's been my
15 conversation.
16 And there's going to be an opportunity on
17 the other end anyway. My Hellen Caro School,
18 the one that -- that is an A school, 1300 --
19 almost 1400 children, there could be a
20 $140,000, I think this Board will press to give
21 really strong control to that school and what
22 to do with those dollars.
23 But I -- I don't think the opposition of
24 the majority yesterday dealt with incentive
25 pay. I think they would support --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well --
2 DR. MASON: -- you on that.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Appreciate it.
4 Any --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- any other comments?
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- Governor, if I
8 may.
9 Commissioner Nelson, let me understand your
10 comment again that we are making a
11 recommendation to the local authorities that
12 they consider some sort of incentive or bonus
13 pay for these particular -- these two
14 particular schools, and any schools similar to
15 them in the future, I presume.
16 And -- and if I understood
17 Commissioner Gallagher's comment, that there is
18 concern about the collective bargaining issue,
19 that there are unions involved here, and that
20 whatever is doable at that local level, if they
21 choose to follow the recommendation, that
22 that's their call.
23 Is that your concern on the collective
24 bargaining?
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. Well --
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1 we're not a party to collective bargaining.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I know we're not.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And so I just
4 wanted to make sure everybody was clear on
5 exactly what we're doing.
6 Personally, I would like to see this
7 message be to the -- basically to the
8 Escambia County School Board, and others when
9 we start doing it, is that those schools that
10 are in inner city areas that are F schools and
11 D schools should do the same thing that they've
12 done here, have -- put in strong principals,
13 have them approve every single one of their
14 teachers, and have -- in order to attract the
15 best teachers, to have alternative pay for
16 them.
17 I would like to see that. And -- and any
18 way I can push it, I want to do it. And if
19 this is a way of doing it, I'm for it.
20 But I also think that it's my obligation to
21 point out that the -- the constitution of
22 collective bargaining right exists between a
23 School Board and the collective bargaining
24 unit.
25 And I'm -- I want to encourage these kind
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1 of activities, don't get me wrong. But I just
2 want us all to recognize that it is a
3 negotiated process that must take place at the
4 individual district level.
5 I want to see the best quality teacher
6 possible put in those tough to teach schools.
7 And there are seven or eleven F schools in
8 Escambia County. And -- and I would think
9 that -- I know we're doing the plans for these
10 two. But we like -- those district people want
11 to see those schools not be here next year.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Because they're
14 going to be right here doing this. And they
15 can do it now instead of later, if they could.
16 So --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine.
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just wanted to second
19 those comments.
20 And -- and the idea -- the whole idea and
21 background on merit or incentive pay, there
22 have been a lot of programs that have gone
23 through historically that were illconceived or
24 became cronyism.
25 But the idea that you have a failing school
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1 that's -- that's been -- that has been
2 consecutively failing, and we're going to
3 create an incentive for teachers when they
4 could teach anywhere else for the same pay,
5 to -- to go to a very difficult area, and --
6 and teach, which is a plan of a failing school
7 and get more pay, I think that that's very
8 deserving.
9 And I -- and I hope that by these comments,
10 we'll -- we'll send a strong message back to
11 the school boards to work with the unions.
12 I mean, whenever we have tried to do that
13 legislatively, the interest whenever there's
14 additional funding coming in that we wanted to
15 create an opportunity for incentive pay, they
16 wanted the same amount of pay to go to every
17 single teacher, regardless of -- of merit or
18 quality of teaching.
19 And I think that we need to -- hopefully we
20 can create the message that it's important to
21 send these teachers to have the opportunity to
22 earn more when they're -- when they're actually
23 working very much harder and being accountable
24 for those results as well.
25 I mean, when you're looking at
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1 Escambia County, Commissioner, as you said,
2 seven schools are -- are F, ten schools are --
3 are D, that's 44 -- almost 45 percent of the
4 schools in this county are failing.
5 And I think we need to create those kind of
6 incentives for teachers to turn this situation
7 around, and let them be accountable and have
8 the opportunity to earn more for their efforts.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other comments?
10 There is a motion and an amended motion
11 I guess you'd say, which has been seconded --
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: You have to vote on
13 the amendment to the motion --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Vote on the amendment
15 first?
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think we need to
19 be real clear on exactly what we're doing.
20 So --
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes. I'd like --
22 I'd like to hear the amendment.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Okay.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The amendment,
25 please.
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I'm offering the
2 amendment to the -- to Commissioner Gallagher's
3 motion that allows -- would allow teachers at
4 the two schools to be additionally compensated
5 for making a commitment to teach at -- at Bibbs
6 and Dixon, and then also provide them incentive
7 pay for successfully improving student
8 achievement at a level which will -- removes
9 the school from the critically low performing
10 list.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: What --
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That would be
13 the -- that would be --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: What were the
15 numbers again on the F schools you just
16 recited?
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: Seven -- well, only two
18 are --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Only two.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Two with F --
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Well, not for the --
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and seven --
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: No. The seven --
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- Ds.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- this year are --
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1 seven this year are scored F --
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- and ten Ds.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: But we don't have the
5 ability, as I read the -- the A+ plan, we -- we
6 have the ability to make this suggestion --
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Only in emergency.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- only on these two
9 schools.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: Right.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. Okay.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: At this point,
13 that's correct.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: All in favor of the
15 amendment, say aye.
16 THE CABINET: Aye.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed.
18 Okay. Now we have a --
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we have a motion in
21 front of us.
22 All in favor.
23 THE CABINET: Aye.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed.
25 Thank you very much.
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1 We appreciate you coming. And we look
2 forward to working with you and ensure great
3 success.
4 Appreciate -- appreciate all your hard
5 work.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
7 MR. PIERSON: Item 7 is a -- a presentation
8 for information only on extended school year.
9 Dr. David Mosrie has a presentation and an
10 introduction.
11 DR. MOSRIE: Governor Bush,
12 Commissioner Gallagher, members of the Cabinet,
13 I'll be very brief.
14 It's an exciting time to be in education,
15 as you can see from what's just happened. And
16 this information is being provided to you
17 basically is a report on the committee report
18 to Commissioner Gallagher regarding extended
19 school year, 210-day school year.
20 The Department was aware of schools in the
21 state of Florida who were in position at this
22 point in time to begin implementation of the
23 210-day school year right now.
24 And some of those schools, as you've heard
25 from A.A. Dixon and Spencer Bibbs, were
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1 actually prepared to begin the school year in
2 the middle of July.
3 So taking all that into account, there was
4 a need to move rather rapidly and try to find
5 out how many schools we were talking about.
6 And the Department did, indeed, conduct a
7 survey, found this information, and tried to
8 focus in on those Level 1 and Level 2 schools,
9 or the D and F schools.
10 At -- at this point, I've -- the
11 Commissioner has a -- a survey available to him
12 which shows how each of the districts responded
13 to the various requirements listed --
14 (Treasurer Nelson and Attorney General
15 Butterworth exited the room.)
16 DR. MOSRIE: -- in the proviso language
17 that was passed this past legislative session.
18 And be glad to respond to any questions you
19 may have.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: We also have --
21 DR. MOSRIE: Senator Sullivan I believe is
22 here. If -- I didn't see him a moment ago.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: He's -- no, he's
24 here.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: He's here.
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1 DR. MOSRIE: Okay.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: He's right there.
3 DR. MOSRIE: Senator Sullivan, you want to
4 make a few comments on this.
5 SENATOR SULLIVAN: I feel like Puck's
6 bad boy because it was my charter school bill
7 and my school choice bill, and now it's the
8 extended school year bill. So --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
10 SENATOR SULLIVAN: -- don't take it out on
11 me, guys.
12 Anyway, we -- I'm here to discuss the
13 extended school year bill, which there's been a
14 great deal of controversy, largely in two
15 areas: One is the veto, and whether -- what
16 effect the veto would have on the extended
17 school year bill.
18 And secondly, to discuss the issue of
19 including in the extended school year bill,
20 schools that are ranked D or F, and if we could
21 use an example, the schools from
22 Escambia County.
23 And I think there are several pertinent
24 things that -- statements that could be made to
25 begin the discussion.
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1 And I'm not aware where everyone's level of
2 knowledge is on this, so we probably need to
3 have a discussion.
4 (Secretary Harris exited the room.)
5 SENATOR SULLIVAN: I'd -- I'd just like to
6 remind everyone that the purpose of the
7 extended school year was to -- a pilot study,
8 that the extended school year is not intended
9 to be a magic bullet.
10 It may work as much because teachers are
11 involved in the process, become enthusiastic
12 about their school, revise the curriculum,
13 buy into the program, and make their students
14 succeed as much as time on task.
15 And I think it's important to remember that
16 the extended school year will be one of the
17 tools that the State Board should use in
18 addressing failing schools. But it is not, in
19 my opinion, something that is likely to be
20 useful in every single instance, unless other
21 things have occurred.
22 Secondly, I -- I think I need to point out
23 that when we were considering this bill in the
24 Legislature, we were working from ground zero,
25 and were developing an idea. And there were
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1 certain things that -- that we did not
2 consider, simply because we did not have the
3 foresight to think of them.
4 Among which was that there might be schools
5 that were D and F schools where we would have a
6 very strong motivation to help them get off of
7 the failing list.
8 And with that in mind, if they had done all
9 the things that would be required to improve
10 their schools, such as changing faculty,
11 changing the administration, adding new
12 programs, and making a good solid effort to do
13 all the things that they should be doing, that
14 perhaps we would want to have as part of the
15 legislation, the freedom for the Commissioner
16 of Education, or for the State Board of
17 Education, to add schools above and beyond the
18 original 234 that were required.
19 It would be my feeling that had we thought
20 of that, we probably would have been interested
21 in doing that.
22 Now, as part of the discussion that went
23 on at the time that the bill was vetoed, it was
24 my feeling that in order for this to work, it
25 would take a great deal of planning, that
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1 teachers would have to be brought into this,
2 they probably would have to be put on a
3 12-month contract. At least, the teachers
4 would have to take part in forming a new
5 curriculum.
6 There would have to be schools that would
7 have to be matched to a similar program. Then
8 any money for planning would be used for actual
9 planning activities, such as additional time by
10 the teachers in planning the curriculum,
11 notification of parents, shifting teachers
12 between schools, preparing the school with new
13 supplies or different materials. And it was
14 our intention that the planning money be used
15 for that.
16 It was my opinion, when at the end of the
17 session, that -- that this would take a great
18 deal of time. And in view of the fact that
19 this was a pilot study, we should probably
20 proceed deliberately.
21 Now, I know from the Senate's point of
22 view, that we would like to preserve this
23 program as a pilot study, and we would like to
24 keep it at a point where we can look back
25 three years from now, and say, yes, we have
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1 accomplished something, or we know something,
2 and we have arrived at something.
3 It would be my feeling that these -- this
4 plan should apply to schools across the
5 spectrum, so we know whether they're useful in
6 failing schools, or whether they're useful
7 in --
8 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
9 room.)
10 SENATOR SULLIVAN: -- B schools and
11 C schools.
12 And I think that we would like to protect
13 the fact that we don't know what this is going
14 to cost, and there's some reservations as to
15 exactly how much of this we can afford.
16 So with those caveats in mind, we would
17 like to see the -- the extended school year
18 continued.
19 The -- the basis for the objection to the
20 veto is not relating back so much as to levels
21 of funding, as it is to procedural. So that
22 I think that there's plenty of basis for
23 discussion as to how we want to proceed from
24 here.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm not taking it
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1 personally, and I hope you're not either,
2 Senator --
3 SENATOR SULLIVAN: No. I have a smile on
4 my face, Governor.
5 No.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: In our conversations, you
7 outlined your vision of how this could work,
8 and it would be, you know, in a controlled way
9 where different types of schools in different
10 types of areas of the state would participate,
11 and we would match them up with schools that
12 were not -- were similar to those schools, but
13 not doing the extended school year, and -- and
14 do as -- as the experts always say, a data
15 driven research based analysis of how this
16 should work.
17 And -- and I commend you for that, and I'm
18 a complete supporter of that, and I believe
19 that we can make that work, given what -- with
20 the -- the funding that exists right now.
21 And I will yield to Commissioner Gallagher,
22 who's the guy that puts the rules together to
23 implement your -- your idea.
24 So I don't know where we stand with this,
25 Tom, but --
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1 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, just -- just
3 so you know what -- really why we're here,
4 it -- it really is because of
5 Senator Sullivan's diligence in wanting to see
6 some good comparison.
7 Because in his home district, there is a
8 very successful school that started as -- with
9 a full -- extended year, and -- and it has been
10 very successful with that.
11 As you have seen, in Escambia County, both
12 of the schools that -- are still on the
13 critical list want to use extended day as a
14 method to help raise the student performance,
15 which I think is laudatory.
16 We also found that there were some -- in --
17 in our opinion, we had 27 districts respond to
18 our survey that you have 39 schools we found
19 out of seven districts truly were prepared to
20 go into an extended school year this year. And
21 we can match them with other schools that have
22 similar characteristics.
23 So that's -- that part's not a problem.
24 This really is for information. I thought
25 that the Board, as well as Senator Sullivan,
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1 would be interested in knowing that there are
2 quite a few districts, and any of those schools
3 in those districts, that do believe that this
4 could be of benefit to students. And what we
5 really asked for was those in the lower area.
6 We're going to come back, according to the
7 bill, and ask both in August and in December --
8 or February I think it is -- those schools that
9 want to try -- want to do it next year. Either
10 one of those can -- the -- the law was not
11 specific as to whether they be a A school or
12 B school, D, F.
13 We were most concerned in knowing that we
14 were about to name the letters on schools, and
15 the importance of seeing Ds and F schools move
16 to Cs, anybody that believed that was part of
17 their plan. And they had planned for it. I
18 was interested in -- in having them funded for
19 it, and I still am.
20 But I did want the members of the Board to
21 recognize that there is some interest across
22 the state in extended school year to help per--
23 student performance. And we want to help them
24 carry that out, if possible.
25 So that's where we're coming from on this.
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1 SENATOR SULLIVAN: Well, I think we would
2 do this concept a disservice if we held this
3 out to be the answer to every failing school,
4 and for every school that is having problems.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's right.
6 SENATOR SULLIVAN: Because I don't
7 believe -- I believe then that we move -- we
8 remove the motivation to make the hard
9 decisions.
10 And I think that would be a disservice to
11 everyone, because I think under that
12 circumstances, we're setting ourselves up to
13 fail.
14 I also would not want this -- I don't
15 believe it is in everyone's best interest to
16 rush into this.
17 We provided 500 million dollars for
18 supplemental education, class size reduction,
19 which includes the possibility of doing
20 extended school years, so that there is --
21 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
22 SENATOR SULLIVAN: -- no district which
23 should not have available funds to do this
24 outside of this particular program should they
25 so desire.
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1 Having said that, I also feel that had we
2 been faced -- and I believe I could speak for
3 the Senate in saying that if we had been faced
4 with the knowledge that there would be some
5 seriously impaired schools that might -- and
6 that have made changes, significant changes,
7 that we would probably have made some provision
8 for that.
9 And I feel confident that the Senate
10 probably would not object to a very limited
11 number of schools being included in this
12 program. Because if you remember, the proviso
13 limits the program to the 234 schools that
14 apply.
15 Escambia County chose specifically not to
16 participate. So they're kind of latecomers in.
17 And you can see what the precedent is. If you
18 include Escambia County in here, you run the
19 risk of making this a food fight.
20 But I believe that the case that was
21 presented here today is persuasive enough that
22 it validates the proposition that the Board
23 should have the authority to make some
24 exceptions and include some additional schools.
25 And --
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1 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
2 SENATOR SULLIVAN: -- I mean, I don't think
3 we're talking 20 or 30. But, you know, some
4 number of schools, I would say.
5 Well, I won't even talk about numbers.
6 So I would agree that, you know, the Board
7 needs to decide what they want to do in this
8 regard. And I think the Senate is in a
9 cooperative mood to try and make sure that the
10 program proceeds a pace, and that it remains a
11 pilot -- a pilot project.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Senator.
13 SENATOR SULLIVAN: Appreciate the time.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Appreciate you coming up.
15 And we're looking forward to working with you
16 on it.
17 SENATOR SULLIVAN: Okay.
18 MR. PIERSON: Item 8, the last item, it's
19 adoption of an authorizing resolution for not
20 to exceed 350 million dollars of PECO bonds,
21 and a resolution authorizing the negotiated
22 sale and delivery of the bonds.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
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1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 (Secretary Harris exited the room.)
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for the
4 abbreviated Board of Education agenda.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, we've got a
6 really good one coming next time.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: You keep bringing --
8 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
9 concluded.)
10 *
11 (Discussion off the record.)
12 (Recess.)
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 201 through 330 are a true and correct
12 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 2ND day of JULY, 1999.
18
19
20 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
100 Salem Court
21 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
850/878-2221
22
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
VOLUME III
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
June 22, 1999, commencing at approximately 9:09 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
333
1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 JEB BUSH
Governor
4
BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
7
KATHERINE HARRIS
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
10
BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 TOM GALLAGHER
Commissioner of Education
13
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25
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June 22, 1999
1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
4 TRUST FUND:
(Presented by David B. Struhs,
5 Secretary)
6 1 Approved 407
5 Approved 377
7 Suwannee County Air Construction
Permit Summary 409
8
(Presented by Kirby B. Green, III,
9 Deputy Secretary)
10 2 Approved 412
3 Approved 412
11 4 Approved 412
6 Approved 413
12 7 Approved 413
8 Approved 413
13 9 Approved 413
10 Approved 414
14 11 Approved 414
Substitute 12 Approved 414
15 13 Approved 415
14 Approved 415
16 15 Approved 416
16 Approved 416
17 17 Approved 416
18 Approved 419
18 19 Approved 419
20 Approved 419
19 21 Approved 420
Substitute 22 Approved 420
20 23 Approved 420
24 Approved 420
21 25 Approved 421
26 Approved 421
22
23
24
25
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June 22, 1999
1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
ITEM ACTION PAGE
3
Substitute 27 Deferred 421
4 Substitute 28 Approved 422
29 Approved 422
5 30 Approved 424
31 Approved 470
6
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 472
7
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees.
3 Item 1.
4 Secretary Struhs, how are you doing?
5 MR. STRUHS: Thank you, Governor.
6 I've been advised that there are a number
7 of people here who have traveled a great
8 distance, and are in need of getting on
9 airplanes to return home this afternoon.
10 If it would be okay with you, we'd like to
11 move them to agenda Item Number 1. It's
12 currently agenda Item Number 5.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Start with agenda Num--
14 Number 5 you said?
15 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's fine with me.
17 It's hard to get to Tallahassee, so we want
18 to make sure people get out, if they have to.
19 Is that the Naples crowd?
20 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: Yes.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: It's a long way to
22 Naples.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: We got you early in the
24 morning, and late in the afternoon.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Can't get to
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1 Naples from here.
2 MR. STRUHS: Let me tee it up then for you.
3 Item Number 5, the Department is
4 recommending that you direct the Department to
5 exercise the power of eminent domain to acquire
6 approximately 1200 acres of land owned by
7 Sahdev Corporation, located within the
8 Estero Bay CARL Project. And then to delegate
9 to me the ability to prepare and execute a
10 condemnation resolution for that property.
11 There are a considerable number of
12 individuals who would like to speak to this
13 issue. I would recommend that we would impose
14 a -- a time limit on -- on presentation.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Before we get --
16 go down that track, I'd like to -- to make a
17 motion to approve this.
18 And if there would be a second, I would
19 like us just to maybe see if there -- who's out
20 here that's against it. And if there aren't
21 any, the people that are here for it might be
22 willing to waive their time.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, I'll second
24 it if you're making a motion.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: My motion is to
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1 approve the item.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: What was your
4 motion, disapprove the item?
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Approve the item.
6 Thank you very much.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I for one would
8 like to hear a little bit more. There's a lot
9 more to this than I'm satisfied with.
10 Eighteen million appraisal, twelve million now
11 above the eighteen million appraisal, and an
12 eminent domain commendation -- condemnation
13 that may very well cost us even more money.
14 And I am not sure I know what the real
15 value in this is. That's what I'd really like
16 to know is what is the real benefit to be
17 derived for a thirty, forty million dollar
18 investment.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Benefit for the
20 money, as opposed to value of benefit. In
21 other words, are you looking at --
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I am looking at --
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- for --
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I am looking at
25 this piece of property, which is a fraction of
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1 the property that surrounds this very important
2 bay -- and I don't argue that point at all -- a
3 fraction of the property that surrounds it.
4 And I don't have a good feel for the real
5 impact of this relatively small piece of
6 property in terms of the entirety and -- and a
7 thirty or forty million dollar price tag.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary Struhs, do you
9 have someone that could give us a --
10 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- help us --
12 MR. STRUHS: Yes. Mr. Ed Conklin from the
13 DEP staff has got a very brief slide
14 presentation, which I think will give you a
15 quick overview.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: General, when you said
17 18 million appraised value, then you said
18 12 million, is the -- the --
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Twelve million --
20 twelve million above the eighteen right now at
21 least is --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Private --
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- is the --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- offers?
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- forwarded on the
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1 private offers.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a better picture
3 than that, isn't there, that I've seen that's
4 got more --
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think more's
6 coming.
7 MR. CONKLIN: Governor, what we've -- what
8 we have coming to you should be some copies of
9 this same map for you individually.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: That doesn't do much for
11 me.
12 MR. CONKLIN: They have it already.
13 Thank you.
14 Governor, members of the Cabinet, my name
15 is Ed Conklin. I'm Director of
16 Marine Resources.
17 Also with me today from the Department is
18 Anna Marie Hartman, Chief of the Bureau of
19 Coastal and Aquatic Managed Areas.
20 We represent the staff that your current
21 manager of the aquatic preserve and associated
22 buffer properties purchased and managed around
23 the Estero Bay resource area.
24 The first slide that you see before you,
25 which is also represented in smaller version
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1 which you should have in your package, is an
2 orientation slide.
3 The reason that we're here today, as your
4 staff, is that we support this acquisition
5 because we believe that this particular parcel
6 is a keystone parcel for the future protection
7 and continued resource values of Estero Bay.
8 Estero Bay is an aquatic preserve, the --
9 the first aquatic preserve designated by the
10 Legislature, and was designated as a wilderness
11 aquatic preserve for its resource values.
12 On the map before you on -- on the -- the
13 slide, the Estero Bay Preserve is represented
14 in blue; the existing State ownership in green,
15 which represents the buffer lands that have
16 been purchased to protect the values of the
17 bay; the proposed parcel for acquisition here
18 in red or pink; and on the -- the Gulf side,
19 also other State-owned lands managed for
20 recreation.
21 The Lover's Key/Black Island recreation
22 complex in the State park system, as well as
23 Mound Key in the center of the bay, which is an
24 archeological site.
25 Estero Bay not only is a -- a State aquatic
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1 preserve, which is owned and managed by you as
2 Trustees, it also has a -- a number of
3 extensive resource values which are
4 controversial, and are constantly coming before
5 you. It's a key area for manatee protection,
6 and for fisheries resources, as well as
7 recreation.
8 And we are here today to talk about those
9 resource values, and how important this
10 particular parcel is to the future of the bay.
11 Anna Marie Hartman will proceed now with
12 describing those resources.
13 MS. HARTMAN: Thank you.
14 Governor, and members of the Cabinet, I
15 have six slides --
16 Go ahead and put the first one on.
17 -- that are intended to give you a sense of
18 the project itself, and the Sahdev property
19 that we're talking about here today.
20 As Mr. Conklin said, this -- Estero Bay
21 area was designated the State's first aquatic
22 preserve to be preserved in perpetuity in a
23 wilderness condition.
24 In addition to that, it is designated an
25 outstanding Florida water. Outstanding Florida
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1 Water designation means no degradation of -- of
2 the water quality.
3 It's also part of the Charlotte Harbor
4 Natural Estuary Program, which includes the
5 Charlotte Harbor area to the north of this,
6 Lemon Bay to the north, and the -- the
7 tributaries of the river.
8 What we're doing here is looking down
9 Hendry Creek. If you'll look at your map,
10 you're looking down straight from the north.
11 And a couple of weeks ago, y'all approved
12 the acquisition of this land mass here. The
13 tributaries and the bay down in the distance
14 are all part of the aquatic preserve system.
15 Recognizing that aquatic preserve
16 designation and the OFW designation, although
17 providing a lot of protections through the
18 permitting process couldn't really do it all,
19 we embarked on an extensive land acquisition
20 program, not just around this -- this
21 aquatic preserve, but a number of others also.
22 So we're recognizing that land acquisition
23 is one of the prime ways to protect these areas
24 from development, and to ensure these resources
25 for future generations.
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1 The second slide is of the -- the
2 Estero River. And this, if you'll look on your
3 map again, is basically the southern boundary
4 of the Sahdev parcel.
5 Looking up around where it abuts the bay is
6 the mangrove fringe. And that's referenced in
7 the agenda item. It's extensive, about 2 miles
8 we believe of -- of mangrove fringe along the
9 bay, and an additional mile along the
10 Estero River by -- that would be protected
11 from -- from impacts of -- of development to
12 protect the bay.
13 One of the reasons, as Mr. Conklin
14 mentioned, that we want to protect this system
15 is because of the value of the estuary itself.
16 The estuary itself is the home to about
17 70 percent of all the commercially valuable or
18 important recreational and commercial
19 fishing -- fish in -- in -- statewide
20 nationally, and the Estero Bay buffers -- the
21 Estero Bay area is part of the Lee --
22 Lee County study.
23 Last year, recreational fishing alone
24 generated 53 million dollars worth of -- of
25 money for -- for the area.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Let me -- let me
2 understand where -- what we're looking at right
3 there.
4 That is -- where is that in relationship to
5 the piece of priority?
6 MS. HARTMAN: Okay. If you look at your
7 map also, this is the Estero River. The
8 property is this area up here going north. We
9 do --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And north of the
11 river.
12 MS. HARTMAN: North of the river, yes, sir.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. Not --
14 MS. HARTMAN: And --
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- not -- the river
16 is not contained therein.
17 MS. HARTMAN: The river is -- is
18 sovereignty submerged lands, and we would
19 already own that.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
21 MS. HARTMAN: There is --
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I
23 appreciate --
24 MS. HARTMAN: -- this piece --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- that.
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1 MS. HARTMAN: -- down here --
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But it's bordered by
3 the -- the property borders the river, or does
4 it?
5 MS. HARTMAN: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: What about the
7 south of it?
8 MS. HARTMAN: South of the river, there are
9 two -- honestly two distinctions on the south
10 of the river.
11 The surveys that we have indicate that the
12 south of the river is part of -- part of the
13 project also. But it's just a little piece.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Uh-hum.
15 MS. HARTMAN: Beneath that, the Trustees
16 already own it. The -- I believe that the
17 appraisals were done on just the prop--
18 property north of the river.
19 Unfortunately, I can't estimate what the
20 size is. But, again, if you'll look at your
21 map, you'll see that it's a small area, maybe
22 30 or 40 acres.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But we're planning
24 on including that in what we purchase.
25 MS. HARTMAN: Yes.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
2 MS. HARTMAN: Yes.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I --
4 MS. HARTMAN: That's my understanding, yes.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. I estimate
6 that, you know, about a kilometer of the river
7 is actually -- would be involved then in this
8 piece of property.
9 MS. HARTMAN: That's correct.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And that there are
11 several other kilometers of river that would
12 not be involved, and would not be owned by the
13 State.
14 MS. HARTMAN: That's correct.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So that we --
16 MS. HARTMAN: According to --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- we would have
18 a -- a small portion of it, but the remainder
19 of it would be owned by private --
20 MS. HARTMAN: Yes, sir. But -- but one of
21 the things that -- that we point out is that --
22 to us, the 1200 acres of this pro-- of this --
23 this project are quite large. It's the largest
24 tract left for us to purchase.
25 And, again, having the -- the -- the
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1 riverfront and the buffer to the already owned
2 mangrove swamps, in the 197-- 1997 needs
3 assessment that the Agency put together for the
4 Legislature to identify those lands that still
5 needed to be purchased under a -- another
6 program, the Forever Florida Program, coastal
7 resources were one of the -- one of the
8 categories that was identified as being
9 significant and important, again, for
10 protecting the resources of the estuary.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Nelson wanted
12 to know why you were going metric on us,
13 General.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, you know,
15 primarily because it was easier to say a
16 kilometer, as opposed to 6/10 of a mile.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's brilliance.
18 That's absolute brilliance.
19 MS. HARTMAN: Next slide.
20 This slide is of land that we already own
21 around the bay. Again, the project itself was
22 approximately 15,000 acres, and our ownership
23 now consists of -- of about six.
24 So while this slide is not of the Sahdev
25 property itself, it does indicate some of the
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1 habitats that are on there.
2 Of that 1258 acres, there is significant
3 biodiversity in terms of habitat, and in terms
4 of habitat that it provides to the numerous
5 species there, including a number of listed
6 species. And I believe that those are also
7 listed in your agenda item.
8 One being the black bears, but --
9 footprints have been sighted there,
10 gopher tortoises are on it, there's an eag-- an
11 active eagle's nest on it, et cetera.
12 The habitats here are the mangroves in the
13 foreground, the salt pan. The mangroves,
14 of course, provide the basis of the food chain
15 in this area, and that's why it's important to
16 protect them. The decaying leaves provide the
17 detritus that the basis of the food chain
18 relies on.
19 The salt pan or tidal flats there are
20 foraging habitats for numerous bird species.
21 And in the background, you'll see a
22 cabbage palm hammock. That's also referenced
23 in the agenda item. It's one of three habitats
24 that Lee County considers rare endangered in
25 their comprehensive plan.
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1 And this, again, is on another piece of
2 property, but that's also indicative of what's
3 on the -- the Sahdev property.
4 This is a -- an aerial view of the property
5 just to the south of the Sahdev property. And
6 this will give you a -- a pretty good feel of
7 what that property looks like. Starting with
8 closest to you, the real -- the pine areas.
9 These areas, again, we reference in the
10 item that we have 500 acres of uplands. In
11 terms of the value that that prop-- provides to
12 the buffer preserve, which again we buy
13 primarily to protect the bay area, but also for
14 appropriate recreational uses of the public,
15 we -- we've estimated that we're about doubling
16 the -- the amount of high dry uplands that we
17 will have available to provide recreation to
18 the -- the local citizenry.
19 Other -- other lands that we own,
20 significant portions are mangroves, we do have
21 some pine lands, but it's -- it's pretty much
22 wet, it's pretty much hybrid.
23 Again, going out from the pine through the
24 cabbage palm, you'll see there -- there's a
25 significant cabbage palm area there. And then
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1 through the -- the tidal marsh, and out into
2 the bay system.
3 Next slide.
4 This is -- this is -- this and the next
5 slide are my last two slides. And this is to
6 show you a little bit about what's been
7 happening in that area.
8 It's an area of extensive growth. And
9 I think we have the citizens here today, a
10 number of them, that have lived in south -- in
11 this southwest part of Florida for a long time.
12 Up the barrier island side, what you're
13 doing is looking north. And you're looking up
14 from the Bonita Beach Road up through -- and,
15 again, in the distance, this is Fort Myers
16 Beach up here.
17 So you see from a -- from the seaward side,
18 there -- there's extensive development already
19 happening. There is Lover's Key State Park
20 which is in this area.
21 This property here I'll draw to your
22 attention is currently privately owned.
23 And if you go to the next slide.
24 This is where it connects over to the -- to
25 the east side of the -- the southern part of
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1 Estero Bay.
2 And, again, if you look on your map, you're
3 down at the -- at the bottom corner there where
4 the boundary of the CARL project is actually
5 just this -- this mangrove fringe in here.
6 And what we're doing to -- in the Sahdev
7 property is where -- actually trying to extend
8 that mangrove fring-- that buffer area further
9 landward.
10 This kind of development is pretty much
11 planned for that whole strip along the eastern
12 boundary of the -- the buffer preserve area.
13 And that's why we think that this piece --
14 particular piece of property is of great
15 significance to us, and worthy of using the --
16 the authority for eminent domain.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: What -- what is the
18 probability of acquiring that property on the
19 southeast portion?
20 MS. HARTMAN: The -- the one on the -- that
21 was opposite this?
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That's south of
23 that. I presume that north is -- yes, to
24 this --
25 MS. HARTMAN: Want to go back a slide?
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1 Reverse them.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: In the -- in the
3 southeast corner of -- of the bay.
4 MS. HARTMAN: This that you're talking
5 about here?
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No, I don't think
7 so.
8 MR. CONKLIN: The southwest corner.
9 MS. HARTMAN: I'm sorry. That's the
10 southwest corner.
11 Next slide then. Back again.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You -- you'd have to
13 go back to look at your -- your principle
14 amount.
15 MS. HARTMAN: Okay.
16 If you look at the yellow boundary,
17 that's -- that's the boundary. There's a big
18 jut that -- that goes along the -- yeah, go
19 back to the first slide.
20 All right. You're talking about this
21 area --
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes. I'm talking --
23 MS. HARTMAN: -- here?
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- about the
25 southeast portion that is adjacent to the
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1 bay --
2 MS. HARTMAN: Okay. This is --
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- that is not owned
4 by the State. Privately owned apparently.
5 MS. HARTMAN: Right. This is --
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: All the way down to
7 the bottom of the -- of your map there, bottom
8 of the bay.
9 MS. HARTMAN: Okay. This -- this property,
10 I understand, is currently -- they're just
11 beginning development there.
12 And I might ask the acquisition staff to
13 come and help me address these -- but --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: How about for the
15 south of that?
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Where's the ocean?
17 Or the Gulf of Mexico?
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Gulf.
19 MS. HARTMAN: Gulf.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: All right. So I
21 thought what -- what you're saying, the part
22 that's brown from the Gulf toward the part
23 you're buying, right there. Now, that's what's
24 about to be developed?
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No. That is
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1 developed.
2 MS. HARTMAN: It is developed.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Totally.
4 MS. HARTMAN: Totally.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
6 MS. HARTMAN: Right. We -- we do have a
7 State park there.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. You have two
9 pieces in there. I'm talking about the
10 southeast boundary of the bay.
11 Right there.
12 MS. HARTMAN: This.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: There you go.
14 MS. HARTMAN: Okay. That -- that in
15 there --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's a big one. Bring
17 that up here.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Keep that in front
19 of us, it'll be a lot --
20 MS. HARTMAN: This is -- this is
21 Heather Stafford. She's our Aquatic --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: A big map.
23 MS. HARTMAN: -- Preserve and Buffer
24 Preserve --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: I like that.
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1 MS. HARTMAN: -- Manager.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: If I could
3 interrupt. Just another example of why we need
4 to improve this room.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: I was just thinking --
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I mean, it's
7 just --
8 MS. STAFFORD: Tell me where you want it.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: So jealous of that
10 Jacksonville --
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: For the record,
12 standing over in the --
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: In the House.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I've got my glasses
15 on. I'm in pretty good shape.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We need to get the
17 Jacksonville City Commission consultant over
18 here to --
19 MR. CONKLIN: This is Ms. Stafford, the
20 manager of the area. She knows --
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If we get just a
22 little of the --
23 MR. CONKLIN: -- she knows everything about
24 that project.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: So, General, she's all
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1 yours.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I can -- I can
3 read my map. It's the others that can't read
4 it. I -- I can see the southeast corner.
5 Yes.
6 MS. STAFFORD: You can only see the
7 development on it.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
9 So we're not going to be able to acquire
10 that.
11 MS. STAFFORD: This is not even in the
12 boundary. The boundary is this way of the
13 yellow line.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Where's the development on
15 the line --
16 MS. STAFFORD: It's within the yellow line
17 is the boundary.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay. So --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the map that had
20 development on it already over here.
21 MS. STAFFORD: This is all the
22 development -- you know, development here --
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So what we're
24 talking about is a -- is a bay that already
25 has -- and I'll use miles on it, if you'd
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1 like -- approximately 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 miles
2 of the coast already heavily developed on that
3 eastern portion.
4 MS. HARTMAN: That's correct.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And we are now
6 concerned about less than a mile up here in the
7 piece of property that we're talking about.
8 And -- and it is a --
9 MS. HARTMAN: It's --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- keystone?
11 MS. HARTMAN: That's correct. Because it's
12 not just a mile on the bay, it's 1200 acres,
13 including all the habitats that gradate into
14 the real upland habitats.
15 We -- we know that we can protect a lot
16 through the permitting process. But the
17 permitting process, again, is not a mechanism
18 to stop development or to preserve -- preserve
19 things.
20 It's a -- it's a mechanism to give people
21 permission to do a certain amount of
22 development with -- within standards, within
23 acceptable standards.
24 And so we're concerned about the cumulative
25 impacts of the number of permits that are
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1 issued. In this area of Florida, there -- the
2 number of permits, the size of the projects,
3 and the complexity of the projects gives us
4 concern for the future if this whole eastern
5 shoreline is developed over time.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, you've already
7 got half of it developed.
8 MS. HARTMAN: Yes, sir.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- and that's a
10 bit of my problem. Half of it is already
11 developed. And now we're trying to put a
12 little finger in the dike.
13 MS. HARTMAN: It's --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- and I'm not
15 so sure I want to put that much money into the
16 finger.
17 MS. HARTMAN: Well, and -- and, General,
18 I guess, the -- you know, our -- our position
19 would be that we're -- I don't think we're
20 putting a finger in the dike.
21 I think we still have the ability to do
22 something significant to protect that resource
23 down there.
24 And, again, 1200 acres is a large parcel to
25 us. And we believe that if we can acquire
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1 that, and hopefully some of the remaining area
2 around there, which we're aggressively trying
3 to do, either through donations, or through
4 other funding mechanisms we receive through --
5 through Heather's good -- hard work, a number
6 of grants from the Federal government to try to
7 expedite the process down --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll remove my
9 objection.
10 MS. HARTMAN: Thank you.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If you want to go
12 forward.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: All right.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion and second.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You got my second?
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Is there anybody
18 out there against it I guess is the question.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I -- I'd -- I'd like
20 to just be careful about -- we have -- what
21 you're basically saying that based on science
22 and all the -- the issues related to the
23 management of this, that there is no possible
24 way that this property -- the uplands, or
25 portions of the uplands can be developed.
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1 In spite of the fact that surrounding it --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, they can.
3 But we're trying --
4 MR. STRUHS: I -- I might -- I might -- I
5 might help on that score.
6 One could argue that under DEP's regulatory
7 programs, we could preserve the mangrove
8 swamps, and we could preserve some of the other
9 wetland and sovereign submerged lands.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: The hammocks, the habitat
11 for --
12 MR. STRUHS: A por-- a portion of it, yes.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I wouldn't --
14 MR. STRUHS: But --
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- go that far.
16 MR. STRUHS: -- of the -- of the
17 1245 acres, I'm told that approximately about
18 500 of that is -- is upland. And that land
19 cannot be protected under the -- the regulatory
20 programs. If it's to be preserved in its
21 current condition, it -- it needs to be
22 acquired.
23 I guess one of the things to think about is
24 people have, I think, fallen into the trap of
25 thinking of swamps and wetlands as the buffer
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1 zone to the main body of water.
2 In fact, I think what science has proven is
3 that those mangrove swamps and other areas are
4 not the buffers, those, in fact, are integral
5 to the very ecosystem you're trying to protect.
6 So to the extent you want a buffer, that
7 buffer needs to be an upland buffer.
8 I -- I would point out -- and, again,
9 it's -- it's your pleasure, but we do have a
10 number of people who have come from the
11 community, including elected officials.
12 And we do also have a representative from
13 Sahdev Corporation, who would speak for the
14 current landowner, if you wish to hear from
15 them.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. I just want to know
18 what -- what's the 30 million divided by
19 500 acres? I'm just getting -- someone
20 believes that there's a value to this property
21 that far exceeds what the current appraisal is.
22 And I -- and it's -- someone had to have
23 made the assessment that -- that there is --
24 I mean, I don't know what -- what's -- it's a
25 big piece of property. So I don't know what
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1 site -- what --
2 MR. STRUHS: Right. I think we --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- have we -- have we gone
4 through that -- the -- I know it's the -- we
5 don't own the property.
6 But I'd be curious, perhaps the owner could
7 come and describe a sense of what he thinks
8 these values --
9 MR. STRUHS: Right.
10 While -- while -- while Mr. Ken Plante
11 comes up to -- to --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Ken Plante?
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: This is -- this is
14 another one.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: This --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: The property --
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: This is -- he's the
19 owner.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The Ken Plante
21 that used -- that used to be the
22 General Counsel for the Department.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And is now in
25 private practice.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry, Mr. Plante.
2 MR. STRUHS: Mr. --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: He's had this
4 problem for years.
5 MR. STRUHS: Mr. Plante represents Sahdev.
6 And -- and I would point out, just by way
7 of background, the State has already made two
8 bona fide offers to the Sahdev Corporation.
9 Both of those offers were rejected.
10 MR. PLANTE: Good afternoon, Governor,
11 members of the Cabinet. And if you'll please
12 give my -- say hello to Mr. Ken Plante for me.
13 I am the real Ken Plante. I'm with the law
14 firm of Gray, Harris & Robinson. And I'm also
15 the answering service for your Ken Plante.
16 I'm here representing Sahdev, Incorporated,
17 who is the owner -- the current owner of the
18 property.
19 And the statement is brief, that the
20 corporation is neutral as -- with regard to the
21 State purchasing the property, not that -- they
22 would just like a decision made by the Board of
23 Trustees. Because the threat of condemnation
24 severely restricts either development, or the
25 ability to sell the property and the value of
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1 it. So we'd just like a decision to be made.
2 With respect to -- not to ignore you,
3 Governor Bush -- with respect to your question
4 about -- as to the valuation of the property,
5 there are ongoing negotiations, therefore,
6 they're confidential. And, unfortunately, I
7 have not been privy to those. I'm standing
8 here for -- in place of Stumpy Harris, who was
9 unable to be here.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, I wasn't
11 really arguing the -- my point on the value of
12 the land, per se.
13 I was really arguing on the -- the value of
14 that piece of property to this -- to the bay
15 itself.
16 And while I still have some reservations as
17 to whether it is the keystone, I will accept
18 the fact that it does have a substantial impact
19 on a portion of the bay, at least, and the
20 quality in the bay.
21 And that's why I withdrew my objection. I
22 am not arguing at this point the -- the price
23 that we may pay for this, or not pay for it.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The -- the proc--
25 if we're sitting at either a negotiated price,
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1 or eminent domain price, which is a process by
2 which eminent domain goes through, but if you
3 just took what's a minimum offer that we know
4 is out there, that's about $60,000 an acre for
5 the usable acres.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That certainly is a
7 good price, isn't it?
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's -- maybe
9 they can figure out how to use some other --
10 but I -- that sounds like high-rises to me. I
11 don't know -- you can't pay that much and do
12 anything else with it.
13 I don't know. There may -- if there's some
14 people that are against this, I'd sure like to
15 hear from them.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Anybody against it?
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'd like to call
18 the question then. I hate to have people that
19 came all this way and not talk, but --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, if anybody -- if
21 they've come, you want to talk. I mean,
22 we're --
23 MR. STRUHS: I might -- if --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's possible to
25 talk out of -- talk us out of it, I just want
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1 to forewarn you.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's been a long day.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Because it's
4 getting really late. But if you've really got
5 to, take your chance.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: They came all the way
7 here.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: If you -- in all -- in all
9 seriousness, if you want to -- I think we're --
10 there's a consensus moving towards approval of
11 this, I -- I sense.
12 So if -- if you want to speak, you -- you
13 do take the risk of messing up, or -- but you
14 came all the way, so you -- you have the right
15 to do it.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I think it --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, sir.
18 If you walk real fast to the podium.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: How about on his
20 way over, all those in favor of this, would
21 they stand up, so we know they're here?
22 MR. MURPHY: Go right ahead.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Everybody that's
24 for this, please stand up that came to speak
25 for it.
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1 Okay. Great.
2 Thank you.
3 MR. MURPHY: Good afternoon, Governor,
4 members of the Cabinet.
5 My name is Ray Murphy. I'm the Mayor of
6 the town of Fort Myers Beach, Florida. It's
7 an absolute pleasure to be here today.
8 I'll try to keep my comments as brief as
9 possible, as I know which -- as you say, which
10 direction you think you're headed here.
11 I'll begin my comments by saying that as a
12 young man, I recall standing on the shores of
13 Estero Bay, and looking across the bay, and the
14 mullet were so thick that I thought I could
15 walk across the bay.
16 That --
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: That's what everybody
18 says.
19 MR. MURPHY: -- I'll just leave it at that.
20 I've been accompanied up here today by my
21 Vice-Mayor, John Mulholland; and also our
22 former Mayor, and Council member,
23 Anita Cereceda, who are also here with me.
24 We had a council meeting last night, and we
25 decided at the eleventh hour, like we are
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1 today, that it was that important that we come
2 up to Tallahassee to address you this
3 morning -- or this afternoon.
4 And we'd like to do that.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: You thought it was going to
6 be in the morning.
7 MR. MURPHY: Yes, I did.
8 Governor, just -- before I start out here,
9 the last time we spoke together was down in
10 Fort Myers at the Lincoln Day dinner. That day
11 I was wearing my Florida tie --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, okay.
13 MR. MURPHY: -- and you good-naturedly made
14 a comment that it was of a better quality than
15 a certain United States Senator tie.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: But made of polyester.
17 MR. MURPHY: That's right.
18 At the risk of insulting that United States
19 Senator, which I certainly would not do, I
20 would just like to tell you that that tie
21 today, as luck would have it, is in a dry
22 cleaners down in Naples.
23 So thank you very much.
24 I just want to -- you -- you've heard
25 already the -- some of the more technical data
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1 about Estero Bay, and I'm sure you'll probably
2 hear some more, maybe you won't.
3 But I'd like to address briefly some of the
4 practical matters of the preservation of
5 Estero Bay.
6 And I think this may get to what -- what
7 Comptroller Milligan was trying to refer to
8 earlier when he made his comments.
9 Where we are -- the town of Fort Myers
10 Beach is Estero Island. We're a barrier island
11 between Sanibel Island and -- and Lover's Key
12 State Recreational area. It's -- it's a very
13 delicate area.
14 Our -- our industry -- we don't have
15 industry like other places have. We don't have
16 farming, we don't have manufacturing. Our
17 industry is solely tourism. Tourism is our
18 sole industry.
19 The biggest -- the fastest -- fastest
20 growing portion of that tourism today is in the
21 field of ecotourism. That accounts for the
22 livelihoods of, I would guess, probably about
23 80 percent of the people that live in my town,
24 Estero Island, the town of Fort Myers Beach.
25 The health of our back bay, Estero Bay
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1 Aquatic Preserve, is monumental to the success
2 of my constituents, and also your constituents
3 as well.
4 If the bay were to -- to degrade, as it has
5 from time to time in the past, this would spell
6 certainly the end to our golden goose as --
7 as -- so as it were.
8 In the past, our representative,
9 Porter Goss, has been our champion in
10 Washington, D.C., to continue the moratorium
11 against offshore drilling out in the Gulf of
12 Mexico for oil and for gas.
13 We have strongly supported Porter Goss over
14 the years with this, and he has continually
15 kept up the battle to keep that from happening,
16 because it is the lifeblood of the
17 communities -- as Member Harris can vouch for,
18 along the Gulf Coast -- that is the lifeblood
19 of our communities, the tourism industry.
20 And we cannot risk any degradations of the
21 Gulf or the back bay.
22 So I -- I implore you today that -- to take
23 this into consideration, that on behalf of the
24 good people of the town of Fort Myers Beach,
25 and all of southwest Florida, we ask that you
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1 not consider this a finger in the dike, or --
2 or however you want to refer to it, but as --
3 as something that will in the cumulative
4 effect, preserve the entire Estero Bay aquatic
5 preserve, which is important to so many people
6 in southwest Florida.
7 Thank you very much.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mayor.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, could I
10 ask the Mayor a question, please?
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You know, we -- we
13 very often go into partnerships with people.
14 And, you know, kind of we put in some -- some
15 money, and -- and the partner puts in some
16 money.
17 MR. MURPHY: Yes, sir.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If this is such an
19 important aspect to your community, what
20 portion would you like to participate in?
21 MR. MURPHY: Well, I'm sure we could
22 negotiate some of this --
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: This is the risk you
24 want for coming and speaking.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Former Mayor.
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1 MR. MURPHY: We're to get to that, sir.
2 I'm very confident that I could go back to my
3 community and rouse up the support that you're
4 looking for.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Thank you.
6 MR. MURPHY: How was that?
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well said.
8 You did prove Commissioner Gallagher's
9 point though about speaking when you don't have
10 to.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Gentleman
14 over there.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, sir. Please.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Maybe there's another
17 community we could ask for --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you prepared to make a
19 contribution as well?
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Really.
21 MR. MULHOLLAND: Good afternoon,
22 Governor Bush, members of the Cabinet. I
23 appreciate the opportunity to speak to you
24 today about this effort.
25 I am Vice-Mayor John Mulholland of -- of
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1 the Fort Myers Beach. And the only reason I
2 got involved in politics -- I'm a retired
3 banker -- was the degradation of Estero Bay.
4 We've been on the beach for ten years. I
5 came to Florida ten years ago, and the bay is
6 going downhill. There's no question about it.
7 We're avid boaters, my wife and I, and we
8 can see it on a day-to-day basis. We're not on
9 the bay, but we live very close to the bay, we
10 can see it.
11 And this would hurt because it's in the --
12 the basin where Estero River -- which drains
13 directly into the bay.
14 Mayor Murphy pointed out how we are
15 impacted, and how tourism would hurt. When the
16 water quality goes down, you get involved in
17 the food chain and all things like that. And
18 when the fish and the birds go away, the
19 quality of life in Fort Myers Beach will be
20 affected. So will tourism.
21 So it's very important, and I applaud your
22 efforts today.
23 Thank you.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Vice-Mayor.
25 Please. Come up.
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1 MS. CERECEDA: Listen, I sat on this plane,
2 too, for 2 hours. And this is -- it is --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Got to get your --
4 MS. CERECEDA: -- a long way --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- 2 cents worth.
6 MS. CERECEDA: -- for me.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do it.
8 MS. CERECEDA: Sir?
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: You've got to get your
10 2 cents worth, I know. Go ahead.
11 MS. CERECEDA: Governor Bush, and Cabinet,
12 it -- it is an awesome honor to stand before
13 you this afternoon.
14 And, first of all, I applaud the passion
15 and enthusiasm that you have conducted your
16 meeting with today.
17 I came in here today thinking that I was
18 going to be in this very prim and proper
19 setting. I mean, I struggled with what to
20 wear.
21 And, my goodness, I feel right at home.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Oh, it's getting
23 deeper.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think that's a
25 compliment.
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1 MS. CERECEDA: It is a tremendous
2 compliment. It's a tremendous compliment.
3 Mr. Milligan, the answer to your question,
4 as far as the town of Fort Myers Beach, and I
5 believe I can speak for the City of Sanibel,
6 and all of Lee County, is the contribution that
7 we will make to this project is stewardship.
8 It is the direction that our town has moved
9 in, it's the direction that our entire
10 community has moved in, it is the future of
11 southwest Florida is to preserve and to be good
12 stewards of our greatest resource.
13 And the Estero Bay aquatic preserve is the
14 jewel of Lee and Collier County.
15 And I applaud your efforts here today. And
16 I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You'd be a great
18 partner.
19 Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: There goes
22 the money.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I thought we were going to
25 get money, we got stewardship.
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1 MS. CERECEDA: But you can't put that in
2 the bank, you know. That's --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other -- anybody else
4 like to speak?
5 Very good.
6 Well, there is -- I think it's been moved
7 and seconded, hasn't it?
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It has.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any opposition?
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 We appreciate y'all coming up. Look
12 forward to going and catching fish down there
13 in beautiful southwest Florida.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Walking on them.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Walking on those mullet.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah.
17 MR. STRUHS: If we can return to --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Back to Item 1.
19 MR. STRUHS: -- agenda Item Number 1,
20 please.
21 When this Cabinet -- Cabinet first
22 assembled back in February, one of the things
23 you recognized was that the land acquisition
24 process for the average parcel takes in excess
25 of a year from the time it's first appraised,
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1 until the closing occurs.
2 And you were not satisfied with that, and
3 you directed our Department to come back to you
4 with a series of recommendations as to how we
5 might improve our operational efficiency, but
6 at the same time maintain the transparency and
7 integrity of this public's business.
8 So we focused on three specific areas: How
9 we might improve efficiencies, both in the area
10 of appraisals; how we can accelerate contract
11 approval; and -- and closings.
12 You've had a chance to review our
13 recommendations, and we've had the occasion to
14 talk with you and your staff about -- about
15 them over the past several weeks.
16 It's come to our attention that there is
17 one of those recommendations for which there is
18 not a lot of support. And that would be to
19 delegate to the Department the ability to deal
20 with acquisitions under a million dollars.
21 And having reflected on this for the better
22 part of the morning, what I would offer up
23 as -- as potential compromise would be a
24 lowering of that delegated amount to $250,000.
25 And I believe we have a handout for you.
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1 And that handout will show you in percentage
2 terms both from the number of dollars and the
3 number of transactions of what percent would
4 remain for the direct oversight by the Board of
5 Trustees.
6 With that as introduction, I -- I would
7 like to offer up Mr. Pete Mallison, the
8 Director of the Division of State Lands --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Offer -- offer him up?
10 Good.
11 MR. STRUHS: -- to answer any questions
12 that you may have.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good afternoon.
14 MR. MALLISON: Thank you very much.
15 Regardless of what happens today,
16 Governor Bush, and members of the Cabinet, I
17 would like to thank you very much on behalf of
18 myself and my staff for being willing to listen
19 to these recommendations.
20 I think most of them make a lot of sense.
21 We believe that they will save a lot of time in
22 the acquisition process, and hopefully lighten
23 the workload on my staff so we can concentrate
24 on the good business of buying land for the
25 State of Florida.
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1 So I want to extend my thanks to you for
2 letting us make these recommendations.
3 In an effort to try to save a little bit of
4 time in this presentation, I will not go into
5 any great detail.
6 As Secretary Struhs mentioned, our
7 recommendations fall primarily into four areas.
8 With respect to the appraisal process, it
9 is our recommendation that you direct us not to
10 review, as we do today, every appraisal that is
11 under $500,000, but rather that we randomly
12 select appraisals under $500,000 to review to
13 make sure that the quality of those appraisals
14 maintains the high standard that they currently
15 have.
16 We are also recommending that -- currently
17 we obtain two appraisals if the value of the
18 property is in excess of $500,000. We think if
19 we raise that number to a million dollars, it
20 will be consistent with the banking industry,
21 as well as the Federal government, and others
22 that use the million dollar cutoff, and that
23 will allow us to save some time there as well.
24 In the area of the closing process, we are
25 recommending that we assume the responsibility
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1 for resolving certain closing issues on a
2 case-by-case basis that today we typically
3 leave up to the seller to resolve. We believe
4 that we can significantly improve the
5 time frame to close process -- close parcels if
6 we are to do that.
7 We also believe that we ought to use a more
8 business oriented approach to evaluate closing
9 risk issues, and agree to assume some issues --
10 or some risks that we do not assume today where
11 we find that the risk to both the managing
12 agency, and to the State is minimal.
13 Finally, we are recommending in that area
14 that we identify non-critical closing issues
15 that we believe can be conducted after closing
16 as a way of actually moving up the closing
17 date.
18 This would allow us to get the seller out
19 of the process earlier than we do today, and
20 still allow us to resolve those issues in a way
21 that would be to the benefit of both the
22 Board of Trustees as the owner, and the
23 managing agency.
24 In the area of improving the success rate,
25 we are suggesting that where our acquisition
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1 strategy is to make a 100 percent offer to the
2 owner -- and that does not necessarily mean the
3 first offer -- but where there is a strategy
4 that would include making a 100 percent offer,
5 and we have made a 100 percent offer, that we
6 be allowed to share the appraisals with the
7 owner as a way of convincing them that the
8 offer that we have made is both a reasonable
9 offer, and in many cases, these owners do not
10 have their own appraisals. And we think that
11 that would also increase our success rate.
12 And then finally in that area, we are
13 recommending that on a case-by-case basis, this
14 Board consider continuing the practice of
15 monetary incentives in projects where -- where
16 we believe that some offer in excess of what
17 our appraised value is would make significant
18 progress to bringing more land into State
19 ownership.
20 Going back to the second series of
21 recommendations, which is the one that the
22 Secretary -- Secretary mentioned that is
23 probably the one that will cause the most
24 discussion and controversy, we had recommended
25 that the Board of Trustees delegate to the
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1 Department the authority to approve all
2 contracts under Chapter 259, which is the
3 Conservation Lands Program, that are less than
4 1 million dollars.
5 That is consistent with what the
6 Legislature has authorized you to do. It --
7 that is a process which in and of itself does
8 not result in the direct savings of time.
9 What it does do, is our calculations
10 indicate that it would create significant staff
11 savings. We estimate that we probably, just in
12 one bureau, the Bureau of Land Acquisition,
13 employ two man-hours per year in putting
14 together agenda items to bring to the
15 Board of Trustees --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Two -- not two man-hours,
17 two --
18 MR. MALLISON: Two person hours.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: FTEs, whatever you call
20 them up here.
21 MR. MALLISON: Yes, sir.
22 We estimate that it's about 37 hours per
23 agenda item. And when we did the calculations,
24 that translated into over 4,000 hours that we
25 spent doing that.
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1 As the Secretary indicated, as sort of a --
2 I don't want to call it a compromise -- but in
3 an effort to try to move the item forward, we
4 would suggest that you consider a $250,000
5 delegation, and allow us to return to
6 the Board, say, the first meeting in January
7 with a report of how we're doing, and you can
8 evaluate our performance at that time.
9 If you were satisfied with it, we can
10 either maintain the $250,000, you may want to
11 consider additional delegations; or if you
12 aren't satisfied, you can pull that delegation
13 level back.
14 Just to give you a little bit of
15 information on what a $250,000 delegation would
16 mean, if you were to delegate that to the
17 Department, it would mean that under our
18 delegation, we would approve 11.4 percent of
19 the total dollars that were being committed
20 under the program while you would still be
21 reviewing and approving 88.6 percent of the
22 total dollars being spent under the program.
23 Under our current delegation, just as a
24 matter of reference, which is $50,000 or less,
25 but only in specific projects, you are
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1 currently reviewing 94 percent of the total
2 expenditures. So it would be a reduction from
3 94 to 88.6 percent.
4 Also, I think over the course of the last
5 three years, there were 6,303 total contracts
6 that were approved for purchases under
7 Chapter 259. And of that total, 5,651, or
8 90 percent of them, were approved by us under
9 the delegation; 10 percent or slightly over
10 600 I believe it was, were approved by you, as
11 your -- in your role as the Board of Trustees.
12 If you were to approve this delegation, it
13 would have meant that 6,106, or about
14 96.8 percent of the total number of contracts
15 would have been approved by the Department
16 under the delegation.
17 So if we use the delegation, we would be
18 approving close to 97 percent of the contracts,
19 but you would still be reviewing and approving
20 almost 89 percent of the total number of
21 dollars.
22 If there are any questions, I would be
23 happy to try to --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: General.
25 MR. MALLISON: -- respond.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Pete, if,
2 in fact, the Department does approve, without
3 coming to the Board, will the Department be
4 advising the Board as to various purchases, and
5 what the purchase price is by information?
6 And if we object, it could come before
7 the -- if there's one objection, it can come
8 before the Board?
9 MR. MALLISON: We had suggested that. In
10 the current delegation, General Butterworth, as
11 you know, when we were recommending a
12 million dollars, we had suggested that if it
13 was over $500,000, that we would send around
14 that information for your review prior to
15 approval.
16 Let me just say that the one concern that I
17 have is not providing the notice. But what
18 we're trying to do here is save -- is to save
19 staff time.
20 And so if we replace a process in which
21 we're preparing agenda items to bring to the
22 Governor and Cabinet, and instead, we're
23 preparing agenda items and sending them around
24 to all the Cabinet meetings -- I mean, all the
25 Cabinet offices, I'm not sure that we end up
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1 saving ourselves really any time.
2 We would certainly be willing to work to
3 develop some kind of a mechanism that would
4 provide you with an opportunity to look at
5 those.
6 I would hope that we would not have to send
7 it over for every single one over -- or under
8 250,000, because you're talking 6,100 contracts
9 are in that range right now. And that would
10 just be unworkable, I think.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Pete, if I --
12 just -- Pete, on that same -- that issue that
13 the Attorney General just brought up, it seems
14 to me a -- a variation on that that would be
15 less burdensome to -- to your folks over there
16 would be just for the Cabinet, if we wanted to
17 bring an item up -- you don't have to notice
18 it.
19 But if there's a problem or an issue out
20 there among the public, and we hear about it,
21 that's when we're really interested in it. And
22 then that's when we could take the affirmative
23 action then, to ask that item to be brought up.
24 So it's no -- no administrative burden on
25 your folks to constantly notifying us, and
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1 waiting for a response, or whatever.
2 Just gives us the ability to reach out and
3 say, wait a minute, we've heard about this,
4 we've got some people that are concerned about
5 it.
6 And with that kind of deference to the
7 Cabinet, you know, I think it would be --
8 you know, I would be willing to go much higher
9 than the -- than the two fifty that you're
10 doing now. I'd go back to the million, but
11 have the -- have the ability to bring up any
12 item we want.
13 And -- and truth of the matter is, you're
14 going to have very little brought up. But when
15 somebody has an issue, it leaves with the
16 Cabinet then the ability to -- to be players on
17 the -- on those items that are important.
18 So I just would offer that as a thought.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I -- if I
20 can -- Governor --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. Everybody's --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: One of the
23 problems with that --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- perked up here.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- and I -- I
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1 agree with what you're saying is -- the only
2 problem is, we're liable to hear about it after
3 they close it --
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: Uh-hum.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- and it's done.
6 And so I -- what I'm thinking of is the
7 very similar thing. We don't want a whole item
8 put together. Just where the property is, how
9 much it is, what size it is, and when you're
10 planning on closing it.
11 I mean, I think that would be clear enough.
12 That -- that's not hard to do. If somebody's
13 sitting there keeping us --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: You have to do it --
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: Uh-hum.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- keeping track
17 of it --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- anyway.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- anyway. And
20 just send us a list of them.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That's a -- yeah.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And if you don't
23 hear back from us, ride on.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yeah, I just had one
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1 question.
2 In the course of a year, how much will we
3 spend? I mean, I -- you know, it's hundreds of
4 millions of dollars I guess we're looking.
5 So when you start talking about -- if it
6 were 300 million dollars that we would allocate
7 in terms of -- I mean, this -- this agenda
8 alone I think we're looking at 45 million.
9 But -- so if we're talking about
10 300 million and 11 percent, I mean, that's
11 33 million dollars that we're going to give
12 you -- you know, the allocation -- that kind of
13 responsibility.
14 And I -- I feel comfortable with that, as
15 long as there's some kind of -- some kind of
16 notice, or some type of alternative like we're
17 talking about here. And -- and we're -- it's
18 not so dramatic going from the number of -- the
19 percentage of funds.
20 But when you start looking at that we're
21 going to go from approving 10 percent down to
22 approving 3 percent, and -- I think this is one
23 of the most important -- most important jobs we
24 have.
25 I guess my biggest concern, to what raised
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1 the flag for me on this issue is -- is that in
2 the -- in the notes, it said that in -- in the
3 briefing it said that you would save 45 to
4 60 days. And I'm very interested in that
5 process.
6 But I thought during that time, you were
7 doing environmental studies, and final title
8 decisions and surveys, there were a lot of
9 other things going on in that -- that time. So
10 I didn't -- how would this really save 45 to
11 60 days when you still have that kind of
12 timeframe that's --
13 MR. MALLISON: Yeah.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- necessary?
15 MR. MALLISON: Well, as I mentioned,
16 this -- the 45 to 60 days that mention-- that
17 is mentioned in there is the time that it takes
18 us to go through the agenda process.
19 Now, that is not necessarily going to
20 shorten how long it takes us to buy that land
21 by 45 to 60 days, because as I showed you when
22 we made the original presentation, as soon as
23 we get the contract in, our experience has been
24 that this Board almost, without exception,
25 always approves the contracts.
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1 And so with that knowledge, we begin the
2 closing process even before we bring it to you.
3 So we're not waiting 45 to 60 days now.
4 The primary savings in this particular
5 recommendation is going to be the two man years
6 of work that we will be able to free up --
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: Years.
8 MR. MALLISON: -- to do additional
9 negotiation and closing activities.
10 Now, I cannot translate that into a
11 specific number of days that it will cut out of
12 the process. But I think that you can
13 understand when you consider that that
14 particular bureau only has, I think, about
15 18 employees, that that would be a significant
16 number.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, if I may
18 make a comment?
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The -- you know, it
21 isn't really a question in my mind of the
22 number of days that may be saved, or the -- not
23 dollars that we look at, or we don't look at
24 in -- in -- either in percentage, or in total
25 value, or how many pieces of property we look
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1 at, or don't look at. This is a question of
2 public trust.
3 And my limited experience in this business
4 over the past four plus years, a good deal of
5 our public trust, frankly, has revolved around
6 land and trust lands in a lot of different
7 ways, but principally in the way that we buy
8 it, and the way that we sell it.
9 And I know selling is not part of this.
10 But the way we buy the -- the CARL project
11 lands in this case.
12 And -- and I -- I -- frankly, I could live
13 with 50,000, I've already said that, and
14 I think most people know that.
15 I could probably live with 250,000, if we
16 did, in fact, have in sufficient detail for me
17 to understand what we're paying for a piece of
18 property, what the -- who the -- who the
19 sellers are, a little bit of background maybe
20 on -- on how we got to where we are, and why
21 we're where we are, and how it fits in the
22 overall scheme of things.
23 I probably could live with that. I don't
24 need a -- a full-blown package that, you know,
25 takes up an accordion envelope 4 or 5 inches
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1 worth.
2 I need -- I need the pertinent information.
3 And if I could get that on items between 50,000
4 and 250,000, I could live with a -- a
5 250,000 level for your activities, and that we
6 only get sufficient information -- and we'll
7 probably, you know, evolve that a little bit,
8 you know, we'll -- we'll sort out exactly what
9 it is we need over time.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But I certainly
12 could live with that. And I'd like to try that
13 on for -- for a while, and see -- see how it
14 works. And I could go with something along
15 that line.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I could even --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Nelson.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- it -- as
19 long -- sorry.
20 Bill.
21 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I would like to
22 associate myself with the gentleman's remarks.
23 I think you said it --
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: In conversation?
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. That sounds like a
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1 good --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: He's warming up.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. Warming up.
4 Sit back.
5 TREASURER NELSON: I think you said it very
6 well. In the five years that we've sat here,
7 it seems like that these matters of the
8 Trustees with regard to the State lands have
9 worked very well under the present system.
10 I don't think it has necessarily
11 encumbered. And when it does, maybe there's a
12 reason for that. And maybe that's one of the
13 reasons of why the Cabinet system of Florida
14 will continue as the only one of the 50 states
15 in which we are, in this case, the Trustees of
16 the Internal Improvement Trust Fund, of which
17 the people can come and be heard.
18 And there is a tremendous strength in that
19 in this democracy. And I don't want to see us
20 whittling away at that system by suddenly
21 enormous delegations of responsibility without
22 those things coming in front of us on matters
23 of such great importance which are the public
24 lands of this state.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Tom.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That was
2 very --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I could go to a
4 million dollars, if they'd let everybody know
5 what it is, and anybody that chose to bring it
6 to the full Cabinet could.
7 I mean, the idea is if it's time -- if
8 it -- and it does -- they do take time at -- at
9 these meetings.
10 And as long as they would deliver us -- and
11 I don't -- I'll -- I'll -- again, doesn't have
12 to be a whole package, it's just --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Probably on --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- a --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- a Web page where you can
16 go access it yourself and save --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- a lot of money.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- there -- and
20 there's -- there's a deal, too.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: For the public, too --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Put a closing
23 date of -- give us 30 days --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Get away from these --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- before closing.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- volumes of paper. It's
2 all underneath here. I --
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: Why don't we test it at
4 two fifty?
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You know -- you know
6 what, I -- that -- I -- let me jump in here --
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Then the public --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- for a second.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- would get to
10 see it, too.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Let me jump in for a
12 second on the two fifty. I'm -- it was really
13 kind of making a stretch to go to two fifty.
14 Because I -- I have a little rule called
15 the 7-Eleven rule. And -- and that rule --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Precisely.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- says, you know,
18 what makes good common sense to the citizens of
19 this state when you're dealing with the
20 expenditure of their money.
21 A million dollars, you know, is a lot of
22 money. A lot of money to me, and a lot of
23 money to the citizens of this state. So is
24 $250,000. So is 100,000.
25 Fifty thousand, you start maybe feeling a
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1 little more comfortable with it, maybe.
2 But, you know, I'm stretching it to go to
3 250,000, to tell you the truth, because,
4 frankly, I don't think it passes the 7-Eleven
5 rule. And -- but I'll --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Want to keep it --
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I'll -- I'll
8 accept two hundred and fifty, as long as we get
9 clarification on items between fifty and
10 two hundred and fifty --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: That guy buying that Slurpy
12 at the 7-Eleven, if he's going to buy a home,
13 it won't take him 440 days to close it either.
14 And he won't have a closing rate that is,
15 you know, incredibly high relative to him going
16 out and buying a home --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But he will -- he
18 will have an appraisal.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, yeah. We will have
20 one, too.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I notice, you know,
22 the banks -- somebody made a comment, the banks
23 aren't looking for million dollar -- anything
24 less than a million dollar appraisal.
25 I just had one for -- you know, cost me --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, that --
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- $250, a
3 helluva --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- lot less than a
6 million dollars.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- only one appraisal
8 instead of two.
9 MR. MALLISON: Right.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean, we're -- what we're
11 trying to do here with -- I -- and I
12 appreciate -- this is almost a separate subject
13 than my interest.
14 My interest is better closing rates,
15 because that costs a lot of money to go -- to
16 pursue deals and not have them come through.
17 Do it in a timely fashion.
18 And what I see here, you go from, on
19 average, 440 days to 240 days, or something
20 like that -- or 300 days. And I think there
21 can be -- as we work on this, there may be even
22 improvement on that. That saves money.
23 And I know that guy in 7-Eleven, because
24 I've met him after I became Veto Corleone, he
25 appreciates saving money.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Exactly right.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: And so it's -- it's closing
3 rates, it's time, and it's -- it's efficiencies
4 on their staff so that they can do what they --
5 what they need.
6 And -- and that's the part that y'all are
7 concerned about. And I -- I think that's
8 the -- you know, if we could -- if you could
9 stretch to two fifty, I'll go with -- I'll go
10 to Panama City with you and try to explain it
11 to that guy at the 7-Eleven. Maybe we can do
12 it together.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- I've --
14 I've said I'll stretch to two fifty --
15 fifty thousand to two fifty to get you off the
16 hook on --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: And I'd like to --
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- 6,000 of them.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- what I'd like to do is
20 review this again, because we may want to raise
21 it. It may not -- it may not lower costs, and
22 lower time to close, and lower -- and -- and
23 create a better success rate, in which case we
24 need to go back to the drawing boards.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I would be
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1 curious as to the measure of performance that
2 you mentioned, Pete, that you were going to
3 come back with.
4 What is that measure --
5 MR. MALLISON: Well, I was just --
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- of performance?
7 MR. MALLISON: -- thinking to myself, I
8 probably misspoke. But --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, you can't come back
10 in January with that. You've got to come now
11 with that, because that's what we measure you
12 by in January.
13 MR. MALLISON: I think that the -- the
14 problem we're going to have in reporting back
15 in January is we probably will not have had
16 enough time in the new process to really truly
17 evaluate it.
18 But I would still like to come back in
19 January and tell you where we are, and let you
20 see how we're doing, and -- and tell us how you
21 think.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: I also would like to get
23 what the current system has in terms of those
24 three criteria, and what your expectations are
25 in terms of time and success rate and costs so
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1 that we can -- we can measure it.
2 MR. MALLISON: Sure.
3 And I think that that is part of our
4 performance measurements now.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now -- and as it relates to
6 the information, General, you're comfortable
7 with -- let's make sure that we get the
8 right --
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I think --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- with the information --
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- we -- I think
12 there --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- below the two fifty.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- probably has to
15 be a little discussion between their staff and
16 our people to really sort that out. But --
17 MR. MALLISON: I think that --
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I'm not
19 looking -- I personally am not looking for a
20 lot of information.
21 I'd like to have a little background on the
22 piece of property, I'd like to know who the
23 hell the seller is --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Before we --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and when it was
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1 acquired --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can we --
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and how much they
4 paid for it, and what its appraised value is on
5 the tax book, and what the appraised value is
6 in terms of the appraisal, and --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's why I brought this
8 up.
9 Before we implement it, if we could make
10 sure that each member of the Cabinet is
11 satisfied with the information.
12 Is that acceptable?
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And it will not be
14 overwhelming.
15 MR. MALLISON: Good.
16 Well, if I think that if we do what the
17 General has suggested, which is we provide
18 information that we will work out with your
19 staffs on those purchases in excess of 50,000,
20 and not in excess of two fifty, which is the
21 range that we're talking about, that that's
22 probably a number that is workable from a
23 workload perspective.
24 I was concerned about General Butterworth's
25 statement --
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1 Which maybe you didn't intend, General.
2 -- but 6,000 of these things would have
3 been impossible.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah.
5 At some place at some point, and probably
6 Internet -- Internet's fine. The public has a
7 right to know what -- what you have purchased.
8 And it should be very easily accessible,
9 whether it be $50,000 or up to two fifty.
10 And --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That makes a lot
13 of sense.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- and,
15 I mean, that has to be done. Just as a matter
16 of -- I think you want it to be done. If I was
17 in your position --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I'd want
20 to be -- to be protected from the standpoint of
21 finding out you just purchased somebody's
22 mother-in-law's home, or something, you know.
23 So something has to be accessible to the
24 public very easily. So I think that -- that
25 definitely can be worked out though.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, Governor --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, sir.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- y'all have an
4 Internet site.
5 MR. MALLISON: Yes, we do.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: All you'd have to
7 do is put a thing up that say lands to be
8 purchased, and who and -- who and from and
9 what --
10 MR. MALLISON: And, in fact --
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- the question.
12 Man, that's not that hard.
13 MR. MALLISON: And, in fact, every year we
14 develop our annual workplan which identifies at
15 the beginning of the year what we intend to go
16 after. So we could start with that and put
17 that on the Internet site, and people could see
18 exactly what we're --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: What you're --
20 MR. MALLISON: -- trying to buy, and then
21 as we --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- step in the
23 right direction.
24 MR. MALLISON: -- got the contracts, it
25 wouldn't take much to fill it in. So
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1 appreciate that.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just back to the business
3 side of purchasing land. I don't think you
4 announce to the whole world everything you're
5 going to buy in a year.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's already on
7 the CARL list.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
9 MR. MALLISON: It's --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: But every parcel?
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Or just those systems?
13 MR. MALLISON: Well, the CARL list, again,
14 is -- is given pretty wide distribution. Our
15 annual workplan is -- is a public record. It
16 is not certainly at this point out on the --
17 the Internet. But --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Anybody wants it
19 can have it.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: One other quick
21 comment, Governor, and that's to -- to thank
22 them for going through the effort that they did
23 go through here to really try to streamline
24 this process and come up with some very good
25 ideas.
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1 And I -- I appreciate it.
2 MR. MALLISON: Thank you, General.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think they were prepared
4 to do this a couple of meetings ago, but we --
5 we deferred it. So they were doing good work.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: They've been ready
7 to do this for quite a long time.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
9 Harmon Shields did it, didn't he, by himself?
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Has he got a
11 memory.
12 There's been some -- some bad programs in
13 the past.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I presume we
15 had -- had a motion and -- and approval?
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: We had a motion.
17 Do we have a second?
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, it's --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: With the
21 amendments.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: With the amendments --
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: With the amendment.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- two amendments.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 Thank you.
2 MR. STRUHS: There are 29 items left. And
3 I'm going to --
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Rolling right along.
5 MR. STRUHS: And I'm going to --
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I move
7 Number 2 to 31, Governor.
8 MR. STRUHS: You're going to jump to 31?
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No. No,
10 2 to --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: After talking --
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- 2 through
13 31.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- about the public's right
15 to know, I think we probably --
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Oh.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- ought to go through each
18 one of these, what do you think?
19 MR. STRUHS: I'm going to, unfortunately,
20 have to excuse myself, but will turn over the
21 podium to Deputy --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Where are you going?
23 MR. STRUHS: -- Secretary Kirby Green.
24 I have other official -- I have official
25 duties I have to attend to.
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1 But I -- you're in good hands with -- with
2 Kirby. And -- and thank you very much to all
3 of you --
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's
5 5:00 o'clock --
6 MR. STRUHS: -- for --
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The rest of us --
8 he has to be home at 5:00.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's
10 5:00 o'clock.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, before you leave,
12 you may want to -- can -- I know this -- it's
13 late and everything.
14 But can you give a brief summary of the
15 decision that you made yesterday as it relates
16 to the cement plant in Branford.
17 MR. STRUHS: Sure. I'd be happy to.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think that's a -- it's an
19 important --
20 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. Well, that -- that --
21 I'd be happy to.
22 The Florida statutes require the Department
23 to consider a whole variety of issues before we
24 permit the construction of a new facility.
25 In this particular instance, the applicant
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1 was seeking what we would call an air
2 construction permit, which would be a permit
3 for air pollution that would come from a
4 proposed cement kiln in Suwannee County near
5 the Ichetucknee River.
6 The design and the drawings and the
7 technical work that was done on it was
8 appropriate and adequate, and -- and -- and
9 likely would merit approval by the Department,
10 because it would have adequately protected the
11 environment, if it were built right and
12 operated right and maintained right.
13 There's another provision of Florida law
14 though that requires us to consider whether or
15 not the applicant will, indeed, follow through
16 and -- and actually do all those things. And
17 it's a fairly subjective decision on the part
18 of the Department to have to make that
19 judgment; and consequently, it's a judgment
20 that we --
21 (Commissioner Gallagher exited the room.)
22 MR. STRUHS: -- we rarely make.
23 But in this instance, given an extensive
24 track record of poor corporate environmental
25 performance on the part of this parent company,
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1 we felt that in order to follow the law, we
2 were obliged to deny that permit application.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is this the first time that
4 that part of the statute has been used as a
5 basis for a denial?
6 MR. STRUHS: It's the -- we -- we aren't
7 quite sure on that. It's certainly the first
8 time in a long time. And it is likely the
9 first time that it's been used in this context
10 for a proposed plant.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: I just wanted the
12 Attorney General to hear that, since we have to
13 put this one in the flight pattern perhaps for
14 another lawsuit to make a landing.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah,
16 this -- Governor, I wish to commend the
17 Secretary and the Department for what they have
18 done in this particular case.
19 I think that it was a very -- very good
20 decision, and, again, today a very historic
21 decision on that, and we'll be defending the
22 case with you, with our best lawyers I want you
23 to know.
24 So --
25 MR. STRUHS: Thank you, sir.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Kirby.
2 MR. GREEN: Item 2 is consideration of an
3 option agreement to acquire 70.57 acres --
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. GREEN: Item 3, an option agreement to
9 acquire 1,170.8 acres.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: Move.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there --
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- a second?
15 Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. GREEN: Item 4, four option agreements
18 to acquire 646 acres.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. GREEN: Item 6 is an option agreement
25 to acquire 1,8--
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
2 MR. GREEN: --180 acres.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 (Commissioner Gallagher entered the room.)
7 MR. GREEN: Item 7 is an option agreement
8 to acquire 3,608 acres.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MR. GREEN: Item 8 is an option agreement
14 to acquire 241 acres.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MR. GREEN: Item 9 is authorization to
21 acquire 100 percent interest in 224 acres --
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
23 MR. GREEN: -- in the East Everglades
24 Project.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
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1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. GREEN: Item 10, ten purchase
3 agreements to acquire 391 acres.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MR. GREEN: Item 11, option agreement to
10 acquire 702 acres.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 12,
17 authorization to acquire an undivided
18 50 percent interest in 1,646 acres.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Waiting for
25 somebody else to do it.
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1 MR. GREEN: Ready?
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. We're --
3 MR. GREEN: Item 13, six option agreements
4 to acquire 794 acres.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We just
10 bought all of Collier County, I think. We
11 just --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: No, that was Brevard.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Oh, this is
14 Brevard? I'm sorry.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: What remains of
16 Brevard County.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Collier's gone.
18 MR. GREEN: Item 14, authorization to
19 acquire 100 percent interest in the 100 acres
20 in the Corkscrew Regional Ecosystem Watershed.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. GREEN: Item 15, four option agreements
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1 to acquire 1.154 acres, and survey waiver.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. GREEN: Item 16, an option agreement to
7 acquire 2.52 acres.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MR. GREEN: Item 17, an option agreement to
14 acquire 5.18 acres.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. GREEN: Item 18 is an option agreement
20 to acquire 84.2 acres.
21 Governor, if I may, at -- at this point,
22 this marks the end of the acquisition in this
23 project. It also marks the end of -- of a
24 unique private/public partnership.
25 The owners of this property on a previous
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1 acquisition offered to build a facility -- a
2 visitor's facility at this site so it'd be open
3 for all the public to see and use as a -- as a
4 meeting center.
5 Mr. Cavanaugh and his partners,
6 Mr. Campbell, who -- Mr. Cavanaugh is with us
7 today -- donated that building to -- to the
8 State -- or will donate it to the State.
9 They have a -- an open house, a grand
10 opening this Saturday at 9:30, and would like
11 to invite all of you to attend, if you can.
12 It is truly an example of -- of a
13 private/public partnership that has -- has paid
14 benefits to the State.
15 I don't know if Mr. Cavanaugh -- Cavanaugh
16 wants to speak or not, but --
17 MR. CAVANAUGH: No, thank you.
18 MR. GREEN: Okay.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, thank you for
21 everything you've done.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And --
23 MR. CAVANAUGH: I appreciate it. You guys
24 have really been busy. A year ago we were
25 here, and we told you that we were going to do
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1 this visitor's center.
2 And I know that you're told a lot of
3 stories from time to time. But I gave your
4 staff yesterday a booklet I hope that you
5 received that was something like this.
6 Very good.
7 And if you can see the -- the photograph in
8 there of the building that's completed. And
9 Saturday we're real happy to be able to
10 dedicate the site to the people of Florida.
11 And this --
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Beautiful --
13 MR. CAVANAUGH: -- does bring to close
14 almost a 15-year period where my partner and I
15 have wanted to see over 4,000 acres of our land
16 put back into public ownership.
17 So we appreciate the opportunity to do
18 that. And I think the State's the right people
19 to own the land.
20 Thank you.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excellent. Good job.
22 Thank you very much.
23 MR. CAVANAUGH: Hope you can come.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: A good job.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move the
2 item, Governor.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. GREEN: Item 19 is five option
9 agreements to acquire 876 acres.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MR. GREEN: Item 20 is option agreement to
15 acquire 15 acres.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. GREEN: Item 21, two option agreements
22 to acquire 1.6 acres.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 22 is an option
4 agreement to acquire the remaining timber
5 interest in the Wachovia Bank of Georgia, and
6 request -- two, the request for waiver of
7 appraisal information.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. GREEN: Item 23 is the substitute, the
13 land acquisition procedures for the Federal
14 Highway Administration for projects that
15 qualify for Federal enhancement funds.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MR. GREEN: Item 24, modification of
21 restrictions of Deed Number 30203 to the
22 School Board of -- of Lee County.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
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1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. GREEN: Item 25, issue a 50-year
3 nonexclusive access easement.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MR. GREEN: Item 26, approval of a
10 settlement agreement.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to approve
12 settlement agreement.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 27,
17 consideration of land acquisition projects from
18 the St. Johns River Water Management District.
19 Recommend deferral.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Move to defer.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded to
23 defer.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 28, application
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1 to purchase 4.69 acres.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. GREEN: Item 29, modification of a
7 five-year sovereignty submerged land lease.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Special lease
13 conditions on there?
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
15 MR. GREEN: Yes. Yes, sir.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: With special lease
17 conditions.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded, with
19 the special leasing conditions.
20 Without objection --
21 MR. GREEN: Item 3--
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- it's approved.
23 MR. GREEN: Item 30, five-year sovereign
24 submerged land lease for a proposed commercial
25 multislip facility, and approval of a related
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1 settlement agreement.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move the
4 item.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You got the
8 payment of 2 million dollars in there, too,
9 right? Two million twenty-two --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: It looks like 2,022 --
11 MR. GREEN: That's 2,000.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Two thousand.
13 I'm sorry.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Ooh.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Better make the
16 math right.
17 MR. GREEN: That's correct.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We've gone to
19 thousands from millions --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. GREEN: Item 31 is a discussion of
25 current policies regarding the use of sovereign
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1 submerged lands for gambling cruise ships.
2 If I could briefly open this discussion.
3 Over the past few years, we've -- we've had
4 a number of these ships, there are 27 of these
5 ships in State waters at this time.
6 Ten of those are on privately owned
7 submerged lands, seventeen of them are on
8 publicly owned submerged land.
9 The issue here is really not an
10 environmental issue.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Exactly.
12 MR. GREEN: It is an issue of whether you
13 as the Trustees for those public trust lands
14 want this type of activity to continue on
15 sovereign submerged lands.
16 Those environmental issues that we've had
17 to address, we've addressed in the normal
18 regulatory arena of the Department, and feel
19 that we have adequate ability to address the
20 environmental issues that -- that may arise
21 from -- from the use of these lands from
22 either -- either gambling ships, or any other
23 ships of this size if they -- if they cause
24 environmental damage.
25 So we think the issue here for you is the
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1 public trust interest portion of the -- of the
2 test that we have to look at, and you have to
3 look at when you consider the uses of sovereign
4 submerged lands.
5 So I -- I'd like as we go through this
6 discussion, if you could keep that in mind,
7 that it is the public trust portion of this is
8 really where the focus is that -- that we would
9 like for you to look at for us.
10 There are a number of speakers today that
11 would like to address this issue --
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, if
13 I could maybe just say something real quickly
14 here as to what our responsibility is under the
15 law, if I may say that.
16 The Public Trust Doctrine is set out in the
17 Florida Constitution. Title to certain
18 submerged lands is held by the State by virtue
19 of sovereignty in trust for all the people.
20 Private use of portions of such land may be
21 authorized, but only when not contrary to the
22 public interest.
23 We're talking about here, as I understand
24 it, cruises to nowhere, where boats are used
25 primarily for gambling, or only for gambling.
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1 We're not talking about the long, 900 footers.
2 These are just those that are there for
3 gambling.
4 So, in essence, the State of Florida is in
5 a partnership with these activities.
6 What we're doing here today is not unlike
7 what we did a few years ago when -- when this
8 Board a number of years ago decided it was not
9 in the best interest of the people of the state
10 of Florida in our position as members of
11 the Board of Trustees to allow upland owners of
12 yacht clubs that discriminated in their
13 membership to be able to lease docks for
14 submerged lands from the State of Florida.
15 And we put into our leases prospective --
16 nothing goes backwards, but in the future -- we
17 a number of years ago put in there that we
18 would not -- that it was contrary to public
19 policy, and we would not lease State
20 sovereignty lands to upland persons who,
21 in fact, discriminated membership.
22 And it did actually end up with -- with the
23 one case. We did take away the -- the --
24 when -- when it came for renewal of one of the
25 yacht clubs in a community, we actually did not
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1 renew their -- their dock, which was sort of --
2 it sort of surprised them. But they changed
3 their policy.
4 So I think it's a very important issue
5 which --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- just
8 impress that on it.
9 MR. GREEN: Okay. The first speaker is
10 Ron Barnett.
11 MR. BARNETT: Good afternoon, Governor, and
12 fellow Cabinet members.
13 I stand before you --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry. Can you say
15 who -- who you are, and who you're
16 representing --
17 MR. BARNETT: Ron -- okay. I'm
18 Ron Barnett. I'm a public school teacher,
19 20 years. I'm the owner and operator of
20 Joshua's Landing, a fif-- 14 slip marina on the
21 Pithlachascotee River in Port Richey, Florida,
22 on the Gulf coast.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
24 MR. BARNETT: I stand before you,
25 hopefully, at the end of a -- three long years
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1 of being victimized by an industry that you,
2 Governor Bush, and Cabinet, must take control
3 of to protect which has been entrusted to you.
4 That's our sovereign lands, and the electoral
5 voice that spoke out against casino gambling in
6 1994.
7 Environmentally, I realize we're talking
8 about proprietary here, but I want to touch on
9 environmentally -- the environmental issue.
10 Environmentally the casino boat has
11 destroyed the sovereign lands of the State in
12 the main channel of the Pithlachascotee River.
13 As a result of the actions of the casino boat,
14 what I had as 7 foot depth at low tide is now
15 18 inches.
16 I have one boat at Joshua's Landing that is
17 totally landlocked. It cannot leave at
18 high tide.
19 I could have, and should have, extended my
20 dock to the full permittable distance when I
21 had the depth in 1994. Now I'm being denied
22 the additional 56 feet for modification because
23 of not enough depth.
24 The prop wash of the casino boat has turned
25 a 4 foot depth at low tide to that of a 2 foot
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1 exposed island.
2 Governor, I have tried to work with the
3 casino boat operators, owners. They will not
4 play by the rules I have been told to play by.
5 This industry is not a good corporate neighbor.
6 Their philosophy is, it's cheaper to pay
7 than bother with the process of complying with
8 the law, quote, unquote.
9 Their attitude is that it's better to ask
10 for forgiveness than to go through bureaucracy,
11 quote, unquote.
12 Governor and Cabinet, I am addressing you
13 as part of a little picture I have had to live
14 day and night with for three years.
15 The big picture is three times, 1978, '86,
16 and '94, Floridians have rejected casino
17 gambling. Florida has no laws governing these
18 cruises to nowhere.
19 No agency tracks cash flow, weeds out
20 operators with criminal backgrounds, or makes
21 sure customers play against reasonable odds.
22 Florida Statute 849, which states that
23 transporting and possessing gambling equipment
24 is illegal in the state of Florida must serve
25 its purpose, and the Cabinet must act now by
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1 restoring State sovereignty with regard to
2 high stakes, unpoliced, and unregulated casino
3 gambling from our shores.
4 What was mentioned about regulatory and due
5 process, what's taken three years, it's been
6 three years of which regulatory has been
7 dealing with the situation at my marina.
8 I realize proprietary is the issue here.
9 But you also as a Cabinet need to realize that
10 there are hoops, there's political and
11 financial status that is quite powerful that
12 has for three years detained regulatories --
13 process of implementing the law.
14 And hopefully proprietary will -- will take
15 command and take precedence that will alleviate
16 this kind of business that basically is -- has
17 no benefit for the immediate community, and
18 environmentally, it is devastating.
19 Thank you for the time.
20 If you have any questions, I'm willing to
21 answer.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
23 Any questions?
24 MR. GREEN: The next speaker is
25 Ralph Haben.
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1 MR. HABEN: Governor, and members of the
2 Cabinet, my name is Ralph Haben. I represent
3 the Day Cruise Association here in Florida.
4 And what we'd like to do today is we have
5 22 ships out of the 30 that sail here in the
6 state of Florida. And if you'll look -- and
7 I think Kirby's report is correct -- of our
8 membership, 17 of the 22 boats that I represent
9 are all on sovereign submerged lands.
10 So this is an important issue to us
11 individually, as each boat; it certainly is
12 important to us as an association.
13 So what I would like to do, with your
14 forbearance -- I know it's late, and we'll try
15 to be as brief as we can.
16 I'd like to tell you a little about,
17 because General Butterworth brought up the
18 question of the public interest. And we're
19 going to talk a little today about the public
20 interest, and we're going to talk a little bit
21 today about tourism, which is one of the
22 cornerstones, in my judgment, of Florida's
23 economy. That's what we're going to talk
24 about.
25 And then hopefully later before we close,
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1 I'd like to reserve some of my time, if that
2 would be permissible, I want to talk to you
3 about the legal issues that General Butterworth
4 has raised.
5 However, what I would like to do, and I've
6 been requested to do this, on behalf -- I did
7 not know that we were going to address a
8 specific situation. But apparently that was
9 done by Mr. Barnett, relating to
10 Joshua's Landing in southwest Florida.
11 And so what I'd like to do, with the
12 permission of DEP and the Cabinet, I'd like to
13 ask Mr. Brian Albritton with the firm of
14 Holland & Knight to respond to that specific
15 issue, because I don't want to leave you, the
16 Cabinet, with some of the remarks that
17 Mr. Barnett has made. I don't want to leave
18 you with that impression.
19 So if it'd be all right, I'd like to have
20 Mr. Albritton address the specific situation
21 Mr. Barnett has raised.
22 MR. ALBRITTON: Thank you, Mr. Haben.
23 Governor, members of the Cabinet.
24 Mr. Barnett, with all respect to him and
25 his position, it's not as he says. And with so
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1 many things, there are two sides to every
2 story.
3 I am the litigation counsel for Paradise of
4 Port Richey, presently in a lawsuit. So I'm
5 not going to get into all of it. But I am
6 going to try and give you a simple illustration
7 what I think is the other side.
8 Mr. Barnett has suggested that he's been
9 victimized as a result of -- and suggested that
10 my client has destroyed lands, and that he
11 didn't extend the dock as a result of that, and
12 the prop wash from a casino boat.
13 And DEP's actual lawsuit suggests that
14 Paradise of Port Richey's boat is somehow
15 shoaling in the area of Mr. Barnett's dock,
16 which is about 100 feet, roughly, to the east.
17 What I wanted just to tell you, and
18 illustrate to you very simply, just to show you
19 again there are two sides.
20 This area -- it has been suggested that
21 this area somehow did not have a sandbar, was
22 not being shoaled in. And that's just simply
23 incorrect.
24 What I have here, and I'm going to give you
25 all a picture, is I have an aerial photo --
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1 Yeah. Why don't you go ahead and --
2 Kirby, give me the top one.
3 This is an aerial photo -- and y'all will
4 be getting another aerial photo taken in 1968.
5 But this is an aerial photo from 1967 from
6 records --
7 Show them that one.
8 -- from Department of Transportation's
9 records.
10 And what you see -- what you see is -- I
11 have a 1991. In this area here, that is the
12 sandbar. It is a significantly sized sandbar.
13 Right next to it is a channel created by
14 the Corps of Engineers. And from what we
15 understand from speaking with experts, is as a
16 result of creating this channel which was
17 dredged in the '70s, the water runs more
18 swiftly there. It has a natural shoaling
19 propensity simply because of the bend. But
20 because of the channel, it even shoals further.
21 The picture that Commissioner Gallagher is
22 holding is from 1967, 30 years before my client
23 did business in this area -- that's the larger
24 picture -- showing a significant sized sandbar
25 in that area.
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1 The picture that I've given each of you
2 with the small circle is from a 1968 -- I think
3 this was a SWFWMD photo. And this small area
4 right down here -- it's all right, because it's
5 from a microfiche -- shows a very large sandbar
6 right at the area of the dispute -- of disputed
7 area that -- that is the subject of the
8 litigation.
9 This is just simply a simple illustration
10 that there are two sides to this dispute.
11 We're not talking about prop wash. The boat is
12 right next to where this circled area is.
13 This --
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor --
15 MR. ALBRITTON: -- is area --
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- that's
17 not the issue we're on today.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah.
19 Governor, could I just -- I appreciate --
20 because I -- I know -- I know you wanted to
21 respond to -- to the points that were made.
22 But I -- I think getting back to how Kirby
23 framed what we're doing today is -- is that
24 they feel they've got adequate rules and
25 regulations to handle environmental problems,
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1 which I think we're on right now.
2 But what we were trying to get to --
3 MR. ALBRITTON: But --
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- was the public
5 trust issue --
6 MR. ALBRITTON: I couldn't agree more.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So I -- I
8 appreciate what you're saying, but I think we
9 probably could just move -- move on and --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Mr. Haben, you want to come
11 back, and --
12 MR. ALBRITTON: I think it's -- I think
13 it's time.
14 Thank you.
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Thank you.
16 It'll soon be tomorrow.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No, it is
18 tomorrow.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We'll be in
20 violation of the notice.
21 MR. HABEN: Thank you, Governor.
22 We'll -- what we'll do now is we'll have
23 four or five people that actually work on the
24 boats. We're going to tell you a little bit
25 about the boats, we're going to tell you a
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1 little bit about what they do, and we're going
2 to make it brief.
3 And what I'd like to do now is call on
4 Lester Bullock, who is currently the President
5 of the Day Cruise Association.
6 MR. BULLOCK: Governor, members of the
7 Cabinet, thank you very much for allowing us to
8 talk to you today.
9 I'll be very brief, because I know it's
10 late.
11 Basically my name is Lester Bullock, and
12 I'm President of the Day Cruise Association.
13 We represent over two -- 22 ships throughout
14 the state of Florida.
15 And I'd like to give you some facts that
16 you may not be aware of for our industry that
17 may be of importance to you.
18 To date, we have a capital investment in
19 these ships of over 400 million dollars. We
20 have an annual payroll in excess of 75 million
21 dollars to over 4,000 taxpaying citizens of the
22 state of Florida.
23 We have Federal excise tax that we pay in
24 excess of seven to ten million dollars a year.
25 We pay State sales taxes in excess of
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1 seven million dollars a year.
2 We have purchases from vendors and Florida
3 vendors, fuel, food, and et cetera, throughout
4 the state of Florida in excess of 100 million
5 dollars a year, of which that is -- has
6 sales tax added to it also.
7 We have an average of 50 percent of all of
8 our customers throughout the state of Florida
9 are tourists. And it's very important to the
10 tourism throughout the different areas, and we
11 believe that we have -- we add an amenity to
12 the tourism in the state of Florida.
13 Contrary to more popular belief, most
14 people throughout the state of Florida, and the
15 tourists that come in and visit with our ships,
16 only lose an average of between 50 and $60.
17 So it's not like it's land-based gaming.
18 It is an amenity, it is recreational gaming,
19 and it certainly is not gaming in the -- in --
20 within the state of Florida.
21 I believe those types of facts -- and
22 you'll be hearing some more from different
23 people as we go along. But I think those facts
24 are very important that we are a -- a very
25 large industry with a very large capital
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1 investment, and we have a lot of people that
2 are employees within the state of Florida
3 paying taxes.
4 Thank you.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
6 MR. HABEN: Mr. Mike Hlavsa in Miami.
7 MR. HLAVSA: I walk fast.
8 Good afternoon, late afternoon, Governor,
9 and Cabinet members.
10 My name is Michael Hlavsa. I'm the
11 operator and part owner of a day cruise vessel
12 in Miami, Florida, called Casino Princessa.
13 That vessel is -- is docked at
14 Bayfront Park. And as many of you are aware
15 of, there -- Bayfront Park is -- is in downtown
16 Miami, and has about 35 community and cultural
17 events a year:
18 Orange Bowl Parade originates there; the
19 Florida Marlins, when they won the World
20 Series, were -- were celebrated there; and
21 there was a -- a recent Governor of the State
22 of Florida that was inaugurated in
23 Bayfront Park.
24 So I'm -- I'm here to tell a little story
25 about our economic impact, and just take a few
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1 moments of your time.
2 In 1997, Bayfront Park, due to the
3 financial crisis of the City of Miami, had
4 their budget cut 16 percent. They were
5 encouraged -- the trust members that operate
6 the park, it's an agency of the City of
7 Miami -- to go and find other resources for
8 revenue.
9 What they did is they had, as an asset, two
10 docks, and had been approached before about
11 operating a day cruise vessel there, and had
12 rejected that.
13 With the financial crisis they were in,
14 they once again req-- their Request for
15 Proposal, we were one of the respondents for
16 that proposal, along with about five other
17 people.
18 And what we proposed to them is that we
19 would provide an economic impact directly to
20 the park itself, and also to the community of
21 Miami in terms of jobs and growth and tourism
22 and all that stuff.
23 We would also provide an entertainment
24 amenity to the City of Miami and downtown
25 Miami. As many of you are aware, Miami is in a
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1 rebirth of its downtown facilities,
2 American Airlines Arena, a number of other
3 things are being constructed in downtown Miami.
4 And the last thing is is that we promised
5 them a professionally, well managed,
6 first class facility.
7 We did end up winning the Request for a
8 Proposal, and we -- we provided those things to
9 them. In terms of economic impact, we provide
10 approximately $850,000 a year directly to the
11 park in terms of dock lease and -- and rental
12 revenue to them.
13 We also had provided over a million dollars
14 in rental revenue to them before we had one day
15 of operation, because what we did is we
16 constructed a brand new vessel, and it took us
17 about a year-and-a-half prior to opening. So
18 we paid a dock lease prior to that period of
19 time.
20 We do provide an economic impact to the
21 community certainly, about 5 million dollars in
22 wages, another 5 million dollars in goods and
23 services bought. And -- and the -- and the
24 City's very happy for that.
25 We also provide an additional amenity for
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1 downtown Miami. We have stimulated some
2 visitation in downtown Miami for people that
3 haven't been in downtown Miami for years, and
4 we are adjacent to Bayside Marketplace, which
5 is also a big tourism fact there.
6 There's about 10 million tourists that
7 visit Bayside Marketplace, and we provide an
8 additional amenity to them. They're very happy
9 with us.
10 We're a very professionally managed
11 operation. Our equity partner is a publicly
12 traded company. Our financing for the
13 vessel -- it's about a 15 million dollar
14 project, we have about eight-and-a-half
15 million dollars worth of financing as provided
16 by five midwestern banks, a typically
17 conservative banking venture. But they did
18 finance this vessel.
19 So that's my little story. I think -- the
20 City of Miami is very pleased with us, we have
21 a great relationship with the City of Miami.
22 And they've indicated that by -- by -- for our
23 grand opening, they actually declared
24 Casino Princessa Day for our grand opening. So
25 we're very happy.
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1 Thank you very much.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
3 MR. HABEN: We would next like to call on
4 Joan Wagner, who is the Chief Financial Officer
5 for SunCruz, who is our largest member with
6 eleven ships.
7 MS. WAGNER: Governor, Cabinet members.
8 My name is Joan Wagner. I'm the Chief
9 Financial Officer for SunCruz Casino.
10 I would suspect that probably most of you
11 have not been on a cruise to nowhere. We like
12 to characterize ourselves as more of an
13 entertainment industry. I know our company
14 does hotels and restaurants and entertainment.
15 We try to offer a very distinctive product.
16 We do things such as innovative casino cruise
17 trips where we focus on specific customer
18 tastes, we do creation of meal and cruise
19 packages, we've approached local popular
20 restaurants to offer customers meals in
21 conjunction with their trip.
22 We have a Stay and Play Program, because we
23 have some hotels down in the Keys. We offer it
24 as an amenity, much -- much as the Bayfront
25 venture.
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1 Like to address some of the safety issues
2 in case you're not aware. The majority of the
3 vessels in the day cruise industry, and
4 particularly in the -- are U.S. flagged
5 vessels, which means they were actually
6 constructed in the United States by
7 U.S. workers; they are certified by the
8 Coast Guard and inspected by the Coast Guard;
9 they're maintained by Coast Guard certified
10 captains; they have over ten or fifteen years
11 of sailing experience.
12 Many of these captains are recruited
13 directly from the Coast Guard or other
14 marine patrol organizations. And they're
15 responsible for the management of the deck and
16 engine room, the boat's operations, supervision
17 of the marine and engine functions, and the
18 boat maintenance and careen matters. And all
19 safety matters. The captain is in charge of
20 the ship throughout the trip.
21 Our company, as well, is very
22 professionally run and managed. All of our
23 employees rec-- are eligible for full benefits,
24 including health, dental; we have a 401-K plan,
25 which the company does the matching; vacation
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1 and sick and holiday pay; and opportunities for
2 advancement.
3 We also operate, under the Coast Guard
4 supervision, a drug free work environment and a
5 zero tolerance. There's random drug testing
6 for all employees of the -- all over the
7 company, which gets us a better rate on our
8 insurance, and also is a Coast Guard
9 requirement.
10 The last thing I'd like to say is -- is our
11 growth has been funded through basically a
12 reinvestment of our profits and loans from
13 traditional lenders, such as SunTrust,
14 Bombardier, debis, Mercedes Benz, Ocean Bank,
15 Caterpillar Finance, Bank America, and some
16 other institutional investors.
17 SunCruz and its ownership has withstood --
18 withstood the scrutiny and achieved the
19 confidence of major lending institutions
20 throughout the country.
21 We really were able to grow and prosper due
22 to our integrity, professionalism, and
23 dedication to quality, as well as our customer
24 loyalty.
25 Thank you.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
2 MR. HABEN: Could have Ruth Salgado, which
3 also is an employee of SunCruz.
4 MS. SALGADO: Good afternoon, gentlemen,
5 ma'am.
6 My name's Ruth Salgado. I work for
7 SunCruz Casino, and I'm thirty years old. I
8 have a family. I'm married. My husband works
9 in the gaming industry also.
10 We have a little girl. She's
11 two-and-a-half years old.
12 I've been working for the company for over
13 three-and-a-half years. When I started with
14 the company, I was just a dealer. We didn't
15 have any benefits, I didn't own a house, I
16 didn't have a car that ran for more than
17 20 miles without problems.
18 Now I own my own home, we have two cars, we
19 have a nice savings account, I have company
20 benefits, I have health insurance, 401-K, a
21 nice savings plan.
22 I've been working for the company loyally
23 for a long time. I know a lot of the customers
24 who come in there. We know them on a
25 first name basis.
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1 A lot of the people who come on the
2 day cruise come there for a social outlet.
3 They know each other; they come with a set
4 amount of money to gamble; they're prepared to
5 lose that amount of money, they hope to win.
6 But if they lose that money, it won't have a
7 great impact on their income or their daily
8 standard of living.
9 We have a great time with our players.
10 Nobody is under -- is there without their own
11 free will. A lot of the people who come, they
12 play, and they spend a pleasant evening, or day
13 on the boat. They spend the same amount of
14 money they would on a regular night out.
15 And we feel that we provide a very nice
16 evening or day for those people.
17 Okay.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
19 MR. HABEN: Mr. Larry Jefferson, who is
20 employed by LaCruz over in Jacksonville.
21 MR. JEFFERSON: Governor Bush, members of
22 the Cabinet, my name is Larry Jefferson. I'm
23 the security manager for LaCruz Casino. I've
24 been employed by LaCruz Casino, which is
25 located in the historic village of Mayport,
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1 Florida, for six years.
2 When I started with the company eight --
3 when I started with the company, I had
4 eight years of prior protection experience.
5 Over these past six years, I've developed and
6 finely tuned my skills as they relate to the
7 gaming industry.
8 I consider myself a professional who has
9 worked very hard and conscientiously to provide
10 a safe, nondisruptive, customer orientated
11 environment for our patrons.
12 To me, this is not just a job or a
13 position. It's my livelihood we're talking
14 about.
15 I, like, 3,000 or so people who are
16 employed directly by the day cruise gaming
17 industry, depend on our jobs to support our
18 families, to put food on our tables, to put
19 roofs over our heads.
20 I didn't come here today to whine or to
21 tell you a sob story. I'm here before you
22 today to state a fact, and that fact is that
23 the lives of hardworking people and their
24 families depend on their ability to continue to
25 work in this industry.
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1 I implore you not to take our livelihoods
2 away.
3 Doing this would be catastrophic, and I
4 know that none of you who have a voice in this
5 matter would want to see hardworking, taxpaying
6 citizens endure hardships.
7 In conclusion, I'm not a man of many words.
8 I believe that actions speaks louder than
9 words.
10 So please let this register not only on the
11 stack sheets, but also in your hearts as you
12 act on this matter.
13 Thank you.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
15 MR. HABEN: Governor, members of the
16 Cabinet, if I might, that'll be all the
17 testimony that you will hear.
18 I just wanted to give you a little bit of
19 flavor of what we mean economically to the
20 state, also what we mean to the tourist
21 industry here in Florida.
22 I listened very carefully to what Mr. Green
23 said, and I think that was probably echoed by
24 what General Butterworth said, and that is,
25 this is not an environmental issue.
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1 There is presently environmental law
2 in effect both in the lease, and generally in
3 the state of Florida to take care of any
4 problems that any of these boats, or for that
5 matter, any other boat of this size, if it
6 should do damage in the waters of the state of
7 Florida.
8 What we're really talking about -- and let
9 me point this out -- I know you know what the
10 Johnson Act is, and I'm not going to go through
11 that whole dialogue about the fact that Federal
12 jurisdiction is conferred, and what these boats
13 do is legal under the laws of the
14 United States, and it's legal under the laws of
15 the State of Florida.
16 Let me point out one thing though about the
17 Johnson Act. And the Cabinet recognized this
18 two years ago: If the State of Florida does
19 not wish this business to operate here, if they
20 are willing to shut down a half a billion
21 dollar business, and the 3,000 jobs, and the
22 payroll, the Johnson Act specifically provides
23 for that.
24 And two years ago, the Cabinet sent a
25 resolution to the Florida Legislature saying,
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1 we don't like gambling, we don't condone
2 gambling, but the appropriate authority in the
3 state of Florida, to end it if you don't want
4 them, is the Florida Legislature.
5 And so I think it's important to look where
6 you are on the issue of sovereign submerged
7 land.
8 Are you talking about a moratorium so
9 that -- and I listened very carefully to what
10 General Butterworth says -- and I'm assuming
11 what he's saying is we're going to let the
12 leases run out. And when they run out, we're
13 not going to renew them.
14 Because I think to come in and try to end
15 the leases now would be certainly an impairment
16 of contract. So I'm going to assume he's
17 talking about a moratorium that would go
18 forward.
19 I don't think that gets around the problem.
20 Let me tell you what, in my judgment --
21 certainly I could be wrong, because it's not
22 been litigated, notwithstanding any
23 Attorney General's opinion, or any other
24 opinion you have.
25 I think you can treat these ships, and any
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1 other similarly situated vessel in the state of
2 Florida, the same. If you want to make a
3 policy decision, we don't want ships to lease
4 sovereign submerged lands in Florida, I think
5 you can constitutionally do that.
6 But it seems to me the real issue is: Can
7 we say as a matter of public policy in this
8 state, even though they are legal, that we do
9 not wish to let gambling ships operate in this
10 state, or we don't want to have them on
11 sovereign submerged lands.
12 Let me suggest to you, you have a
13 constitutional problem there under equal
14 protection.
15 Let me also suggest to you, if you do that
16 at the end of the day, what, in my judgment,
17 you'd be left with: Not 17 boats that sit on
18 sovereign submerged lands, if you did that,
19 would be gone as their lease term ended.
20 What about the boats that sit in the ports?
21 They would be left.
22 What about the boats that have 10-; 20-;
23 and in one case, a 60-year sovereign submerged
24 land lease. You leave them alone.
25 It's going to be difficult for me to turn
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1 to my client and say, you, who went in Miami;
2 or, you, who went into Port Everglades are
3 lucky, because you're still here because
4 Cabinet action didn't touch you.
5 But to the boat in Fort Lauderdale, to the
6 boat in the west coast, to the boat in the
7 Florida Keys, you're gone when your lease is
8 up.
9 By the way, how long was your lease? Was
10 it a two-year lease, a three-year lease, or are
11 you one of the lucky ones that had a 20-year
12 lease?
13 So what I'm suggesting to you is, this is a
14 very complex problem. I know, because I've
15 lived with it for the last three years.
16 Let me also say this: It is often
17 charged -- we're not regulated and we're not
18 taxed.
19 Let me tell you what my Board has voted.
20 My Board has voted repeatedly we would have no
21 objection to regulation by the state of
22 Florida, number one; and, number two, we
23 voluntarily asked to be taxed by the
24 Legislature two years ago.
25 And it never passed. And not because we
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1 didn't try to do it.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well -- I'm just curious --
3 can we stop --
4 MR. HABEN: Yeah.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- here?
6 I've never --
7 MR. HABEN: Sure.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- heard of this before.
9 You voluntarily agreed to --
10 MR. HABEN: Yes.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- tax yourself, and the
12 Legislature said no?
13 What was the tax?
14 MR. HABEN: The tax would have --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: I missed this.
16 MR. HABEN: -- the tax would, in essence,
17 would have created a head tax. It would have
18 gone into the beach renourishment. Feeling it
19 was a nexus there.
20 Quite frankly, I'd rather it go in general
21 revenue. Go into general revenue, you create
22 more friends.
23 So I have no -- no, I have no objection to
24 being taxed. Never have.
25 My industry has no objection to being
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1 taxed.
2 And quite frankly, if we could figure out a
3 legal way to do that, we would do it, and I'm
4 not sure if the Legislature couldn't do that if
5 they would.
6 But when you come back to the central
7 issue, it still is very simple: Treat us the
8 way you would treat any other legal entity in
9 Florida.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I ask -- can I ask a
11 question?
12 MR. HABEN: Absolutely.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: General Butterworth
14 mentioned the restricted clubs that have
15 leased -- submerged land leases. That's a
16 legal enterprise in every way.
17 But there was a restriction of using the
18 State lands based on a --
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: Public --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- decision -- a public
21 policy decision that this state does not want
22 to be associated with clubs that freely can do
23 this, but we don't want them leasing land from
24 us.
25 MR. HABEN: Right.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: What -- what's any
2 different with making that same kind of policy
3 statement about gambling?
4 MR. HABEN: Well, did you litigate that
5 issue? I --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't know. I'm --
7 MR. HABEN: -- did you litigate that and
8 win?
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't know.
10 MR. HABEN: General Butterworth, did you
11 litigate that and win, or did you just do it?
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We -- we --
13 Governor, we -- we did it. No one has
14 contested it.
15 And I think really to the -- we -- we know
16 we would have prevailed in the case. I mean,
17 it's like this one, we feel very comfortable
18 that we sit as the Board of Trustees --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: But you would agree that --
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- of the
21 State lands.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that it's no different.
23 You're saying that one's unconstitutional as
24 well?
25 MR. HABEN: Well, I think it probably is
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1 unconstitutional. Probably the better answer
2 for that -- and -- and I would like to give it
3 myself, because it's a fairly good one.
4 But since you've raised the question, let
5 me call Mac Stipanovich up here, who also
6 represents us, because I think he has an answer
7 for that.
8 MR. STIPANOVICH: Governor, members of the
9 Cabinet, I'm Mac Stipanovich, and I, too,
10 represent the Day Cruise Association.
11 I assume that General Butterworth cited the
12 racial discrimination example to establish the
13 fact that the Cabinet had some duty or
14 responsibility to determine what was the public
15 interest, not to equate racism with gambling --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Right.
17 MR. STIPANOVICH: -- because I'm not sure
18 that anybody in this room would do the same
19 thing. I mean, one's much more serious than
20 the other.
21 So the question boils down to here, which I
22 think Commissioner Crawford alluded to earlier,
23 what is the public interest, and who should
24 determine it?
25 Going back to the question of the leases
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1 with respect to the private clubs which were
2 acting in a racially discriminatory manner.
3 I'm not aware of anybody in public office,
4 or any agency of the State of Florida, or any
5 legislative act at that time that condoned that
6 kind of activity, whether it was legal or
7 illegal. It was just immoral, everyone
8 disapproved of it, and the State of Florida,
9 wasn't, by golly, going to countenant it to its
10 land.
11 Gambling is not the same thing. This state
12 does not approve -- disapprove of gambling.
13 This state is in the gambling business. It's
14 one of the biggest gambling entrepreneurs in
15 the state. It sanctions, regulates, and
16 profits from all sorts of gambling, whether
17 it's harness tracks, racetracks, or dog tracks.
18 So gambling generically is clearly not
19 contrary to the public interest in this state.
20 We promote it, we profit from it, we do it.
21 Now, is there something different about
22 this kind of gambling?
23 Well, at least not -- not nearly as I can
24 tell, except for the fact that it doesn't take
25 place in the state of Florida. Some -- an
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1 earlier speaker alluded to the fact that, well,
2 the people of Florida have rejected casino
3 gambling on three different occasions.
4 What the people of Florida rejected was
5 casino land-based gambling in Florida,
6 presumably for a lot of reasons, some of which
7 may have been related to the -- the crime they
8 associate with those kinds of activity in
9 land-based casinos, loan-sharking,
10 prostitution, drug use, and other things.
11 I'm not aware of any evidence, and I'm
12 not -- I don't think the members of the Cabinet
13 are aware of any evidence there's any kinds of
14 crimes like that associated with offshore
15 gambling on these boats.
16 In fact, I would suspect, if I were going
17 to guess, that we have less of that than your
18 average dog track or racetrack throughout the
19 year. So it can't be just the fact that it
20 involves a -- a roulette wheel, as opposed to a
21 dog going over a finish -- a -- a start line.
22 And so I think, Governor, hopefully the
23 answer to your question is is that gambling is
24 different than racism. And this kind of
25 gambling is not appreciably different than any
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1 other kind of gambling, whether the State's
2 engaging in it, or merely profiting from it.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: I still, from the
4 perspective of a landlord --
5 MR. STIPANOVICH: Yeah.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- which is what we are in
7 this case, we can make the determination that a
8 club that restricts -- that -- where people
9 freely associate with like kind folk --
10 MR. STIPANOVICH: Uh-hum.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- but do so in a way that
12 we find morally unacceptable, they're --
13 they're allowed to do that.
14 But we -- we restrict that use on the
15 State's property as the Trustees of the State
16 land.
17 I don't see how the same principle could
18 not apply for casino gambling in that we're
19 leasing land to you, and still allow casino
20 gambling, or gambling in some form, to -- to
21 exist in our state, or for boats to take off in
22 other places. I -- I do equate --
23 MR. STIPANOVICH: Well --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I think that there is a
25 question of use. I mean, there are other uses
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1 that I would -- that would fit into this
2 criteria as well, as a landlord, that I would
3 not want as the Trustee at least of the
4 public's land -- that I would not want to lease
5 for certain other types of uses as well.
6 MR. STIPANOVICH: Well, this -- you could
7 certainly argue that, Governor. And probably
8 your argument would carry more weight than my
9 own in that context.
10 But the --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't know about that.
12 MR. STIPANOVICH: The -- is there something
13 pec-- you have to ask yourself a question,
14 which I guess is what you're doing -- is there
15 something peculiar about this form of gambling
16 in this particular venue.
17 I mean, I walked past a bulletin board out
18 there coming in where there's something tacked
19 up on the State Capitol about where to call to
20 get your bus to haul you out to Mississippi for
21 casino gambling.
22 I don't know whether y'all are going to try
23 to do something about the driver's license of
24 those bus drivers who are -- are taking those
25 folks --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're going to take that
2 down off the public property though.
3 MR. STIPANOVICH: Well -- well, that's
4 fine.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: That would be appropriate.
6 MR. STIPANOVICH: I'm just -- in terms of
7 determining what the public interest is in this
8 case, the -- State government generally,
9 outside this particular room, has not found
10 gambling generically to be contrary to the
11 public interest.
12 So I suppose the question boils down is:
13 Is casino gambling on a vessel outside the
14 State waters more objectionable -- in other
15 words, it's almost a moral question I guess is
16 maybe what you're asking, since it's not an
17 environmental question -- is the lady who goes
18 down the gangplank somehow more meretricious
19 and less honorable, and doing something worse
20 than the lady who goes through the turnstile at
21 the dog track?
22 I don't think so. I think to conclude so
23 is illogical, since there's no associated crime
24 or other aspects of it --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: I would agree with you.
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1 MR. STIPANOVICH: -- and y'all are
2 obviously the elected officials, and you do
3 what you please.
4 I would just respectfully suggest it
5 wouldn't make any sense.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mac.
7 You were doing so well.
8 MR. HABEN: I would like to thank Mac,
9 because the clients wonder why I hired him, and
10 now I guess they know.
11 MR. STIPANOVICH: Well, they ain't voted
12 yet though.
13 MR. HABEN: It doesn't matter. You sounded
14 good. It's if you're looking good is the
15 question.
16 I think really -- and it really comes back
17 to this, and this makes some people nervous.
18 But if you don't want gaming in this state,
19 there is such a simple solution.
20 Matter of fact, it's a two-page bill. It's
21 not even complicated. Very simple to do.
22 And -- and the Federal law even gave the states
23 the right to do it in anticipation of maybe a
24 state doesn't want to have this.
25 Let me suggest to you: Treat us fairly,
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1 continue to lease to us. If we have
2 environmental violations that break our lease,
3 then you can break our head, and those boats
4 will be gone. And if you really don't want us,
5 it's right upstairs on the fourth floor.
6 That's the real solution if you really
7 don't want us. But let me suggest to you that
8 when you make that decision, if you go up to
9 the fourth floor and ask them, you are taking
10 away a half a billion dollar industry from this
11 state that apparently some folks must like.
12 Thank you.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, if
15 I could just make a comment.
16 I mean, obviously Mr. Haben,
17 Mr. Stipanovich, all the speakers were very
18 eloquent. But we do have constitutional duties
19 sitting up here as members of the Board of
20 Trustees.
21 If, in fact, they cannot operate on State
22 lands, they can operate on -- on lands that
23 other people own. I think one of the speakers
24 today might -- might not even be on -- on
25 sovereignty lands. In fact, two of them may
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1 not be on sovereignty lands.
2 Governor, I would -- I would move for --
3 for Kirby Green and -- and his agency to, at
4 the next meeting, bring back -- or we can work
5 on it, a -- a paragraph as to State leases
6 which would not allow the so-called cruises to
7 nowhere, but -- which exist for the purpose of
8 solely for gambling.
9 Because by doing such, it puts us in a
10 partnership with these activities. And on
11 numerous occasions, the people of the State of
12 Florida have voted no to casino gambling.
13 And the last initiative, which they --
14 which -- which they lost, did -- did cover
15 riverboat gambling, if I'm correct.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: This would be for all new
17 leases?
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It'd be all
19 new leases, Governor. We cannot go backwards,
20 and -- and I'm sure this would be litigated.
21 I'm sure before the first one comes up, we'll
22 have an answer from the courts. So --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Gallagher.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I just have a
25 question here.
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1 So the ones that operate out of
2 Port Everglades, we can't do anything about
3 that, right?
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's
5 right.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The ones that
7 operate out of Port of Miami, Key West port,
8 any of those ports, we -- that's -- that's --
9 how do they get to do it, and the other ones
10 don't?
11 I mean, their ports are sitting on
12 submerged lands, aren't they?
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: The --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Kirby?
15 MR. GREEN: Some -- some of those lands
16 within the ports have been conveyed to either
17 the Port Authority or to the County by
18 legislative act in the past. So there are
19 privately owned submerged lands within those
20 ports, and other places within -- within the
21 state.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Including, apparently,
23 Bayfront Park. I mean, we're -- at least on
24 the -- what I saw here, the --
25 MR. GREEN: Yes.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So the -- the
2 issue is: If you've got one of those deals,
3 you stay in business and get all the business
4 you want; and if you're on the other deals, we
5 close you.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, you
7 move -- Governor, I would suggest that --
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I mean, I'm just
9 asking --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- because I'm --
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- it looks like
14 that.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: There are
16 places for them to go, and they operate
17 legally, they can do that. But it's not us
18 as -- sitting as the Board of Trustees that are
19 saying, you can use our dock, you can use our
20 land.
21 You take the first gentleman's testimony,
22 and forgetting about the environmental impact
23 of it, he's saying I am -- I am -- I'm a
24 Floridian, you represent me. And we have voted
25 as Floridians, as a matter of public policy, we
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1 do not want casino gambling, and -- and we are
2 now in a partnership with it, and I don't like
3 it. And I think he's right.
4 And -- but there are places that right now
5 until -- until Legislature acts, there are
6 places that -- that they can operate out of.
7 And obviously, I mean, the State's leases
8 are very inexpensive compared to maybe a lot of
9 other leases.
10 So --
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- I personally applaud
14 General Butterworth's efforts in his fight
15 against casino gambling.
16 I read case studies of how it can impact
17 communities when they come and build new
18 casinos in terms of a negative impact.
19 And -- and I'm certainly one of the million
20 of Floridians who voted against -- or voted for
21 the constitutional amendment that said no -- no
22 casinos.
23 But I'm -- but in that, it was -- it did
24 not, in my view, affect the cruises to nowhere,
25 or obviously the dog tracks or the horse
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1 tracks, or -- or some of those other issues.
2 These are established businesses in the state
3 of Florida.
4 I don't think that when the people of
5 Florida spoke -- I mean, it's just my personal
6 opinion, and everyone has their own opinion who
7 voted on this -- but I can't -- I don't think
8 you can say a blanket statement that the casino
9 gambling constitutional amendment had to do
10 with these cruises to nowhere. I think they
11 have a tremendous economic impact.
12 And -- and in terms of some of the
13 environmental issues, it seems like the
14 red herring because there's only two that are
15 cited with environmental problems, and there
16 are three -- and we have laws that will
17 accommodate that.
18 So -- so basically we're coming back to
19 say, is this a public interest issue, and we
20 have constitutional duties.
21 But I guess I'm -- I'm concerned to put the
22 Cabinet in that position -- having been in the
23 Legislature, I think it -- it really is
24 legislative in that regard in terms of making
25 that decision.
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1 And -- and I don't think that just by
2 looking at the vote on the constitutional
3 amendment that you can easily say that that's
4 the people of Florida speaking as -- in terms
5 of opposed to casino gambling on -- on ships or
6 cruises to nowhere.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other comments?
8 There's a motion.
9 Is there a second?
10 TREASURER NELSON: I second it.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
12 All in favor of General Butterworth's
13 motion, say aye.
14 THE CABINET: Aye.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: No.
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: No.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: The ayes have it.
19 MR. GREEN: That completes the agenda,
20 Governor.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
22 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
23 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
24 *
25
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1 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 332 through 471 are a true and correct
12 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 2ND day of JULY, 1999.
18
19
20 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
100 Salem Court
21 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
850/878-2221
22
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